12/04/2014 Scottish National Party Conference

Good afternoon. Welcome to our coverage of the S NP conference. It

is the last conference before the referendum. For the Nationalists,

now is the time and now is the hour. Scotland can be independent.

Scotland should be independent and Scotland must be independent.

Celebrating 80 years, the party stands on brink of what could be an

historic moment. Delegates are ready for the battle ahead. I will have

interviews, reaction and all the latest from the conference in

Aberdeen. Alec Salmond is due to make one of

the most important speeches of his career so far. This is the hall

where that will take place. We are expecting that just after three

o'clock. One major theme is the SNP reaching out beyond its traditional

support, hoping to gain that majority for independence.

Glenn Campbell is at the conference. The conference is waiting to hear

from Alex Salmond. His address both focus on independence and the

referendum to come. Within days of a yes vote, and all party team of the

go see it is could be sitting down with the UK government to hammer out

the details of independence. But that referendum has to be one first

of all. Alex Salmond opposing to -- will seek to look out and reach out

to other parties. In the event of independence, the first government

could be a Labour government or a coalition. It would not follow that

the SNP would remain in power. He will also stress that the point of

independence is that in Scotland, you would get the government U-boat

war -- you vote for. It would not be the situation as now with the UK

government is making decisions in key areas, a Conservative lead

coalition government, which does not, and support in Scotland. --

does not command. Brian Taylor is at the conference centre. There is a

lot of passion, a lot at stake? Yes, if you look at the resolutions,

I think I have not seen one yet that has not been carried, because that

is not an ordinary sort of confidence. Every message is set to

reinforce the independents offer. Everything is set to underline that

pitch. Would you say that every message is reaching out to the

people of Scotland, trying to garner undecided voters? Yes, the

calculation is that the undecided two will decide. Nicola Sturgeon was

making a direct pitch to Labour voters. Many of them will have

switched to SNP in 2011, but they will still have an affiliation to

Labour. So no attack on Labour at all. Quite the opposite. An attempt

to suggest it was a decent thing to be a Labour supporter. Secondly, an

argument that by voting for independence, they could rediscover

the position of the Labour Party in Scotland. She was talking about a

rival party doing well under independence. And also reaching out

on the issues that were raised in the White Paper and are being pushed

eagerly and assiduously by the SNP as a way of bringing onside those

undecided voters. It is an unusual conference because

it is not preaching to the unconverted. We are hearing reports

of Alex Salmond talking about a team Scotland, a cross-party negotiating

team after an independent support. There is a real consensual approach

here. It is more than that, it is a strategy. On the doorsteps, we are

still hearing that people are thinking it might be a vote for Alex

Salmond. About voting for President Salmond. The hour trying to stay --

stress that this is not the case. Team Scotland, the cross-party group

in, is a way of stressing that this is not about the SNP alone, it is

not about being consensual, it is a strategic way of playing down the

involvement of the SNP in this. Cleaned out the domination of the

SNP and the domination of Alex Salmond. He is a popular

politician, but he is not popular with everyone. Not everyone would

want him to govern for ever. He is playing down his dominance of

Scottish politics deliberately in order to allow people to come

forward and vote for independence, are giving it is not about

entrenching them in power. Thank you. Here with me is Professor

John Curtis of Strathclyde University. Let's get a snapshot of

the polls at the moment. It is often said that the yes campaign have the

momentum. What is the truth at the moment? There is no doubt that the

yes side made progress during the winter. Every single one of the

posters now have the yes side doing better than they did before

Christmas. During the second half of last year, it was 39% yes, 61% now.

But now we are looking at around 43% yes and 57% now. But there is a very

considerable difference between the polls. In one poll, it was as low as

36. But it is also quite as high as 47. Also, because some pollsters are

coming up regularly with higher yes figures, the SNP and yes Scotland

and other national list organisations at no commissioning

polls from a panel base in expectation it will come up with

higher figures. Certainly, clearly there is progress. But there is

still a fair way to go for the yes side. The winning post may now be in

sight however. You mention panel base. That was criticised in the

Telegraph this week. Is that a fair comment? I spent quite a lot of time

looking at the methodology. It is very difficult to identify any

systematic relationship between the weight pollsters are doing up all

and the results they are getting. -- a poll. YouGov has been coming in at

about 39% in favour. Panel base doing much the same thing is coming

up with 47%. It is difficult to see who is right and who is wrong. I

would caution against being sceptical of the polls that do not

agree with your point of view. I think there is reason for scepticism

about all of the polls. We cannot see who is right and who is wrong.

Brian was talking about Nicola Sturgeon's appeal to Labour voters.

But that Kolbe listened to? There is no doubt that if you look at those

who would vote... There are two things that are clear. Those who

support Labour are certainly more likely to say they will vote yes

than other voters. They are already indicating that they might switch.

Already 50% of currently but voters are voting yes. There is also a

relatively high proportion of undecideds among Labour voters. It

is clear why the SNP think that Labour voters are crucial. It is the

softest part of the union block. But there is another side to this. While

it is true that Labour voters are relatively undecided, and relatively

disloyal to their party's official point of view, so our SNP voters.

Around 12% of voters who see the wood boat for Alex Salmond to moral

are seeing they will vote no. Those two blocks at more or less of equal

size. The SNP have to get some of their own flank on board as well as

reach beyond the partisan divide. Thank you for that.

Yesterday's star attraction was that keynote speech that brought out the

hankies. Nicola Sturgeon pressed all the right buttons for delegates as

she prepared them for the final campaign, encouraging everyone to

increase their efforts. She said the parties stood on the brink of an

historic moment. The best way, the only two build a wealthier, fairer

and more confident Scotland is to equip ourselves with the full powers

of independence. When Alex Salmond named the date of the referendum

just over a year ago, I made a quiet but very firm promise to myself. I

resolved that I will not wake up on the 19th of September wishing I had

done more or worked harder. Let us all today make that same promise.

Over these next months, we will redouble our efforts, we will work

harder than we will ever have done before, they will go that extra mile

because the prize is this, not the end of the journey, but the

beginning of a better future. Scotland, an independent, three and

equal member of the family of nations. -- free. Each and everyone

of us has a vital part to play and play it we must. Make no mistake,

the Westminster establishment is fighting hard as well. There will be

no skier, no threat, no smear that they will not deploy. -- no scare.

Just this week, we were warned by Lord George Robinson that

independence would be cataclysmic and a boost to the forces of

darkness. According to George, we are now a threat to the stability of

the entire Western world. Which you have got to admit is no mean

achievement for a party that was supposed to have been killed stone

dead by devilish and -- devolution. Delegates, with friends like Lord

George, it is no wonder the no campaign is in trouble. And it is in

deep trouble. We have had the currency conversion. I don't often

quote UK government ministers, but I am going to make a rear exception

for the one who was Scott telling the truth. -- rare exception. Of

course there would be a currency union. That one sent Alistair

Darling into a tailspin. His response prompted a Downing Street

source to see this, I do not know what brought processes he was going

through, I say welcome to the club. It does speak volumes that the blame

game in the no campaign has already started. The liberals see Labour is

not working hard enough. Labour say no one believes the Liberals any

more. I think we can all agree on that one. And the Tories, the

lecture tour continues. But I can report today that the Prime Minister

who promised to fight for the union with heart, head, body and soul is

still struggling to locate that part of his anatomy that will allow him

to agree to a debate with Alex Salmond. I joined the party in the

late 1980s, motivated to do so by the damage I saw being done to the

community I lived in by a Government Scotland did not vote for. That

Government was eventually defeated by a Labour Party that had but --

become little more than a pale imitation of the Tories replaced.

And now, nearly 30 years later, the fabric of our society is again under

threat from a Government that has no mandate in Scotland. The positive

message at the heart of the Yes campaign is that it does not have to

be this way. So let this ring out loudly, from our conference today.

Scotland can be independent, Scotland should be independent, and

Scotland must be independent. We are one of the wealthiest

countries on this planet. No one now seriously disputes that fact. If we

were independent today we would be the 14th richest country in the

world. The UK would be 18. So the big question is not whether Scotland

is wealthy enough to be independent, the real question is why so many

people in this rich nation of ours do not feel the benefit of our great

wealth, and friends, that is the burning question that should follow

each and every Westminster politician every single day train

now and September 18th. -- between. One of the most distressing

developments of the past few years has been the rapid rise of food

poverty in Scotland. In 2010, the country's biggest provider of food

banks gave emergency food parcels to just over 4,000 people. By last

year, that number had increased to more than 56 -- 56,000. So many

children are now reliant on food aid, that one provider in Glasgow

includes nappies in its emergency parcels. The thought of that makes

me want to cry. One of the richest countries of the world, we have

parents, many in work, who cannot afford the basics for their

children. That is an utter scandal. -- in one of the richest countries

of the world. Make no mistake, there is a direct

causal link between the growing reliance on food aid and the Tory

welfare cuts. The Tories actually seem quite proud of it. For them,

cutting benefits for poor people is a moral crusade. Let us say this

loudly and clearly to the Tories. Your morality is not our morality,

and with a Yes vote in September we will put that yawned any shadow of a

doubt. -- beyond any shadow of a doubt.

To every Labour voter in the country, I say this. The Yes

campaign is not asking you to leave your party. Instead, it offers you

the chance to get your party back. A Labour Party free to make its own

decisions, no no -- no longer dancing to a Westminster tune. For

everyone with Labour in your heart, the message is clear. And not vote

No to stop the SNP, the Yes to reclaim the Labour Party. -- do not

vote No. To paraphrase a very special lady, a very special lady,

more than 40 years ago, on September 18th this year we are going to stop

the world, Scotland is going to get on.

And then when we do, the next phase of our journey will begin. We will

regain our strength, renew our resolve, and we will get on with the

job of building a country that our children, our grandchildren, and

their children will be proud to call home. A prosperous country. A fair

country. A confident country. An independent country. Thank you very

much. As many as are of the opinion, say "aye". To the contrary, "no".

Nicola Sturgeon. In a moment we will speak live to the SNP's Treasury

spokesman. Yesterday his colleague, the finance secretary denied there

would be any deal on Trident to allow for a currency union if there

was a Yes vote. Mr Swinney reiterated his opposition to the

nuclear deterrent during a conference speech. We have remained

true to the belief that you do not walk by on the other side in the

SNP. You help people who face challenges in our society, that is

the foundation of our social democratic ethos as a party. You

have a duty to play a full and responsible role in the world. That

is why this party will have no truck with nuclear weapons on Scottish

soil or in Scottish waters. I am now joined by the SNP's Treasury

spokesman and Deputy Leader of the Westminster group, Stuart Posey. We

are hearing from your colleague Mr Swinney, a man who keeps a close eye

on Scotland's books. Let us speak about the economy more generally.

You have been criticising the UK economy and the Chancellor George

Osborne in a statement today, but Mr Osborne's in Washington just now

talking about -- speaking at the IMF conference and saying that people

who criticise the economy and his plan work on brands of Lee wrong. --

were comprehensively wrong. If you look at what George Osborne promised

in 2010, when debt would begin to fall as a share of GDP, when the

deficit would begin to reduce, it was always going to be this year and

next year. In the statement he made in the Budget this year, all of

those targets have been put back. The deficit is higher, borrowing

will be higher. Debt will not fall as a share of GDP for some years

yet. Every single target George Osborne said himself, he has failed.

This has been a world economic crisis. Mr Osborne has failed, but

he was pointing out that the UK will be the fastest-growing economy of --

major developing nations -- over the nations this year. Given the depth

of the UK recession, partly to do with the mismanagement of banking

and partly to do with structural problems like too big a banking

sector in the city of London, you would expect a bounce back at this

point in the cycle. But it was still a catastrophically the recession, a

very difficult downturn, and the decision -- the decisions the UK

Government took to get out of it were the wrong ones. Mr Swinney also

spoke about the currency negotiations and the issue of the

unnamed UK minister saying there will be a currency union. What is

your view on that? A second part of that equation was that there would

be a negotiation on Trident. What is the deal there? The currency union

makes sense for both countries. What would Stirling do if it did not have

a hundred -- ?100 billion of Scottish exports receipted ins

curling. -- Stirling. -- Stirling. Of course there will be a currency

union. John Swinney and everyone else in this party is correct, there

will be no deal done for currency on nuclear weapons. -- currency or

nuclear weapons. But perhaps the point about the currency union is

also very clear, Sir Nicholas MacPherson was up for the public

administration committee at Westminster this week, saying that

his advice that a currency union would not be a good idea was

completely impartial, and he was making that advice public because he

was concerned about your point, the SNP's point about the bluff and

bluster. He was making it absolutely clear there would not be a currency

union. I think the output from the Treasury has been extremely

political. I believe it will continue to be so until we reach a

Yes vote on September 18th. At which point all the scaremongering will

disappear very quickly. But cynical is was saying... He was saying he is

a career civil servant, and there is no way he would take any political

guidance when making this kind of statement. His career's on the line

here and he is not going to risk it for some political reason. He is

also being criticised today by the ex-head of the UK civil service for

saying these things, so I am not quite sure what is going on inside

the Treasury. What I am certain about is that a currency union is in

the best interest of both Scotland and the rest of the UK, and we now

have UK minister saying there will be a currency union precisely

because it makes sense. Do you perhaps agree that is still an issue

for the Yes campaign when it comes to convincing undecided voters about

these unanswered questions, a currency union, and perhaps concerns

about pensions and defence? Can I correct you. Currency question has

been answered. The answer is it is our currency, and we intend to use

it because it is in the best interests of Scotland and the rest

of the UK. Of course we need to consider -- continue to allay the

fears and concerns built up by the No campaign, but I do not think we

are doing a bad job given the convergence -- convergence in the

polls. We are heading towards neck and neck with five months to go. But

if these undecided voters, the currency vote -- question is not

answered because they are hearing opposing arguments. I'm not sure

that is true. The very first scare story of the No campaign started was

we would not have a triple a credit rating. Since then it has been said

Scotland would have the highest credit rating. Then they moved on to

there would not be a currency union, and then we have UK minister saying

of course there will be. -- UK ministers. I think as we move on

over the next five months or so, all of these arguments will fall by the

wayside. Thank you for joining us. Still with

me here is John, the currency union is an interesting one. There -- this

story keeps going on. It keeps going on in a wave and No campaign were

not I -- anticipating. -- in a way that. There was on the same day as

the announcement a quite substantial Treasury document, a Government

white taper laying out the arguments, anomaly one would have

anticipated the Chancellor would have spoken to it and that would be

the end of the story. Normally advice from civil servants to

ministers is not made public, and in the terms of Freedom of

Information, such advice is in the protected. So in allowing this

advice to be published, so Nicholas MacPherson was not adopting normal

procedures -- so Nicholas Broome -- so Nicholas MacPherson. That said,

if indeed what Nicholas MacPherson was trying to do was to make it

clear that this was not a bluff, it has to be said the tactic failed.

More than one opinion poll indicates that at least as many people in

Scotland think it is a bluff is to not think it is, and there is not

any evidence that undecided voters were particularly impressed by the

currency statement. We are told by the No side, undecided voters will

take fright the moment they are told they cannot hang on to the pound.

They have not, and indeed more thought it was a bluff than thought

it was not a bluff. the campaign for a yes vote is gathering pace. There

is an almost evangelical approach with focus on the ground soldiers.

This is what was envisaged by the SNP campaign director.

There is growing momentum which is I think a reflection of a number of

things. There are real problems with the negativity of no, and the

attraction of the yes message. There is a huge gap between the efforts

being put in by the yes side and the new campaign. -- no. The level of

activism on the ground. The way we have worked in the past elections as

the SNP, using cutting-edge technology identify potential swing

voters and helping people conclude that the best vote is for the SNP,

we are doing all that in the context of the referendum. But we are also

using traditional techniques. We are holding meetings, and decided

meetings to invite people in. They will hear a pitch from the SNP and

from other people. The public are able to ask questions and we will

see a move from people who are undecided to being supportive of

yes. We are doing everything you would expect us to do in terms of

cutting edge electioneering, but on the ground, we are doing public

meetings in a way that has not been the case for decades in Scottish

politics. That is helping people move on and decided to yes.

politics. That is helping people move on and

If you are still behind the no campaign in the pools, -- polls,

have you got time? There is a plan. People are reaching out to voters to

persuade them. We did that in 2011 as the SNP. 2014, the referendum, we

are already working at a general election Temple to persuade people

that is another dimension. We are working with groups of people who

are not traditionally voters, who do not turn out, who may not even be

registered. We are working very hard in urban parts of Scotland where

there are large numbers of people who are not registered, who do not

traditionally vote because amongst that group there is a high

propensity of people who would be prepared to vote yes. At this

conference, Nicola Sturgeon has appealed directly to Labour

supporters to come in behind the yes campaign. Isn't that... To Britain

campaign you have to build a coalition of people with all kinds

of views and backgrounds. There are great number of people who vote

Labour at election time, but who are also in favour of Scottish

independence, or prepared to consider it. It makes sense to reach

out. We need to build a coalition that will take us beyond 50% of the

vote. It is right to say to people who support and political party,

this is about how we govern ourselves as a nation and when an

election takes place in an independent Scotland, there are

other parties that could theoretically lead Scotland and that

is right and proper. We hope to help people that by voting yes, it is

about transforming how we govern ourselves and making decisions

closer to home. One of your core messages is that independence would

lead to the removal of nuclear weapons from Scotland. That is an

area of policy which is close to your heart. Is that negotiable? In a

White Paper, we have said that Trident will the Scotland as

speedily and safely as possible. UK ministers are now saying that

Trident will leave Scotland. Because that would be the wish of the

Scotland people. As important as that, we will be able to have the

defence capabilities that we require in Scotland, that will be based at

Faslane and that will replace the nuclear fleet that the majority of

people in Scotland do not want here. David Mandel has acknowledged your

hard line on the removal of weapons. You talked about doing that within

the first parliament after a yes vote. Is that timetable negotiable?

I think it is important to understand it is also in the

interests of decision-makers in London to see the removal of the

Trident fleet taking place as quickly as is practicable it

possible with the safety constraints that go hand in hand with that. It

is possible but the submarines to leave Scotland and be based

elsewhere. We want to see conventional defence capabilities

based at Faslane. There is a confluence of interest on this, just

as on the currency. The issues that six months ago were being

scaremonger to buy the no side -- scare mongered by the no side. We

were told it was impossible. Now we are hearing it is now in the

calculations in London. Would you be happy to discuss the timetable?

Everything will be discussed in the context of negotiations following a

yes vote. Everything will be discussed as part of the

negotiations. Is there a maximum length of time you would be prepared

to allow? We want to see them removed quickly. But no absolute

deadline? We want to see them removed as speedily and safely as

possible. We have sought to have discussions with the UK government

already. They have declined to do so. But we are reasonable. That is

why we will talk about the timescale being speedy and safety. We require

Faslane to be a conventional naval base to set out our own defence

requirements. We wish to see Trident leave because of that. It is good to

see UK government ministers agreeing. Read nuclear disarmament

effectively disarmed the rest of the UK? It is up to the rest of the UK

government... If I can just finished. It is up to the UK

government to decide its own posture. All UK political parties

have said they want to retain a nuclear dimensional. It is possible

to locate nuclear bases on the south coast. That is an issue for

politicians in London to answer. What we can answer from a Scottish

perspective is that by voting yes, we will deliver on what the majority

of people in Scotland want. The Trades Union Congress, the churches

in Scotland, the majority of Scottish MPs, and MSPs who do not

want to see the replacement for Trident programme go-ahead. With you

welcome the rest of the UK abandoning Trident? With that suit

you? What would suit Scotland is having a government that delivers

what is required for Scotland. If you would let me and is the

question. What we require for Scotland is a development of our

democracy that allows us to make decisions about what happens in

Scotland and that means that Trident will leave. It is not for me to say

what the government of the rest of the UK will retain nuclear weapons.

However, I am committed to nuclear disarmament. As is the UK

government. I hope they would take those commitments seriously and will

work towards disarmament of nuclear weapons.

Thank you. On Saturday, 7th of April 1934, the

Scottish National Party was formally established in Glasgow. There have

been many birthday references taking place over the last couple of days.

The roots of the party 's spring from the protest movement. It is

fair comment to say that the party machine never used to be this

slick. Our correspondent has been speaking to some veteran delegates.

One of the key themes of this conference has been the 80 years of

the fight for independence. Many delegates have been part of

that for many years. I spoke to them. This is what they had to say.

We have a wonderful country. I'm not a fanatic and I don't think

everything in the garden will be rosy after independence. We will

have to build on what we've got. But over the years, nothing has ever

daunted me or made me doubt that Scotland will ever be able to stand

on her own two feet. Have you ever given up hope? No. It had to come.

Why did you know it would come? Very few nations on earth do not cover

themselves. -- govern. I was at confidence the year the 79 group

were expelled. We are all different people, but united in one cause.

Some people are in labour, left wing, middle of the road. I don't

care as long as we get independents. What ever we Scotland votes after

then, is up to the Scottish nation. You do not feel you belong to a

political party. It is a movement and everybody together. I have been

at lunchtime session and the same thing is coming through all the

time. It all about inclusiveness, it is easy to caricature it is being --

-- as being all Jock Tamson's bairns. It is a faith in people. It

is a belief. It's not a fairy story, it is a belief in yourself.

Brian is standing by with some guests.

I gather from reliable sources that Dundee United have won their

semifinal, I'm rather pleased about that.

I do it you are the senior member here. -- I think. Healing from

delegates that have been around for a bit, there is a feeling of

optimism, but is it falsely based? You're right, there is an optimism

here. But not the sort you had in the past. This is about a slow

growth in the polls. The thing that is interesting is that there is a

steely determination about people. It is a lot stronger than in the

past. You can hear it from older and younger people. This is going to

be, for many of them, the last chance they will get. It is said you

are campaigning at general election please, for months. I think that is

right. One of the things that has struck me is the number of people

who have not been involved in politics before who are involved in

the campaign, not SNP members, but one is turning out to campaign. You

stood in the by-election, and you lost. The SNP does not have it all

before them. Another by-election defeat and the polls are still

against you. Obviously, you have to take into consideration the

circumstances in Cowdenbeath. In the polls, the SNP are performing

fantastically. I think that is something we have found in

Cowdenbeath. There are a lot of people who are not party affiliated,

or who are Labour voters, but who will vote yes. I think we get a lot

of confidence from that. In terms of the breadth and capacity of our

campaign, and just the sheer whiteness and breadth of it, that

gives us a lot of confidence cause it is not just us fighting for

independence, it is everybody. Nicola Sturgeon's speech was to

Labour supporters. What you have got here is a recognition that this

campaign is not about the Scottish National Party, it is not about Alex

Salmond being first minister, it is much wider than that, it is much

deeper than that, and it is recognising that there are voices

beyond the SNP, many in the Labour Party, recognising that the only way

we are going to get what they require out of their country is a

vote for independence. Actually they can in 2016 vote Labour again. The

attentions to say the least. You had staff departures, you had

difficulties about strategy. -- there are tensions. Are you papering

over that now? We have to recognise there is a coalition of people,

people from very diverse political views, but nevertheless want a Yes

vote in September. And who are willing to find ways to have an

effective coalition. We should be embracing the fact that Scotland is

an inclusive, democratic and diverse country where we can have

disagreements but still work together. Natalie, how do you work

with people who disagree with you on the monarchy, the currency, those

are kind of fundamental to the composition of debate? -- the

constitutional debate. It is about democracy. We have a very broad

spectrum of people who are out actively campaigning, and nobody is

really campaigning on ideology but a Democratic platform. After

independence we can then start setting out our stalls, but at the

moment it is about giving people the opportunity in their hands to move

forward. Let us talk about the currency. Your opponents, the

Chancellor, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the Shadow

Chancellor said there is not going to be a currency union, the matter

what you say. It is amazing how their message changed when the Yes

got some are meant in the polls. Last year we had Alistair Darling

saying it was logical, even George Osborne said it was unlikely.

Suddenly we have them saying they are out. Yet when you look at expert

after expert, you are hearing from them that actually people like the

professor who said it would be tantamount to economic vandalism not

to proceed... The pumice secretaries of the Treasury gave advice to the

Chancellor saying it would not be in the rest of the UK's interests. --

the permanent secretary. Where people can listen to politicians,

they can make the own minds up but when you hear expert after expert

saying that it we be economic vandalism, I think people listen to

these arguments more. Do you get it on the doorsteps? It has backfired

quite badly for the UK Government in that it has forgotten how resource.

And could be. -- resourceful Scotland could be. Westminster

minister let the cat out of the bag that the reality is that they are

going to a currency because it is in their interest to do it, not just

ours. But he said that would be a trade-off with retaining trident. We

are very clear we do not want trident. Because we cannot afford

it. I think what the ministerial sources say is that there is a

bargain to be had. The bike and involves keeping Trident. But we

also have other economic balances and we can have different trade-offs

in terms of that and other things we could take shares of. Trident is not

the one and only, it is that -- just the one that is out in the polls.

What is more fundamental is that even the prior to the minister

coming out on that, polls were taken and showing that people did not

leave the UK Government on that. The important thing is that this

minister has now confirmed that. So they have a credibility issue

because people already suspected they were playing a political game.

Alistair Darling says if there is going to be a yes vote, there should

be a referendum. -- a Yes vote. Very briefly, we are coming up to Alex

Salmond's speech and we gather he is going to say it is not about me, is

that because you are getting on the doorsteps some sense that you might

be entrenching the SNP and Alex Salmond as president? No, this is

about nation-building. It is about creating a sense that we're pulling

all of Scotland together, and in that sense it cannot be about one

single political party or one single political leader. It has to be a

broader campaign. Today I think he will be statesman-like, confident

and talk to all of Scotland. We will get the Government we elect every

time, not the Government other people like for us. Thank you very

much to all three of you. I will hang back to studio.

Professor John Curtice has been watching that with me. We are

approaching Alex Salmond's speech, the speech is not about me, not

about the party, it is about Scotland. But on the trusting point.

It is a realisation that the 45% that the SNP got in the 2000

Holyrood elect -- Holyrood election might have been enough to get an

overall majority, and that is enough to put it a head in any immediate

Holyrood race. The trouble is, in the referendum, you have to get 50%,

and the real task that faces the SNP is how did they get from the 45% or

so that they had of their own supporters to the 50% they need? I

think the conclusion they have come to is to some degree to change the

strategic focus of their campaign from the one that they gave us at

the end of November with Scotland's future, the White Paper. A large

section of the White Paper was about how the SNP would like to see how an

independent Scotland would use the powers of independence, and to that

extent it in courage to people to conflate the idea of independence

with what the SNP were likely to do. -- encouraged. Now apparently

there is an attempt to unhinge those ideas. But what we have also had

repeatedly today is that there is going to be no second thoughts on

Trident, yet of course it may well be true that in May 2016 the SNP in

deed may not win the election, and we might have a Government in

Scotland that would be willing to allow trident to stay. We have had a

lot of quoting from the SNP today about how the opinion polls show

that people do not necessarily believe George Osborne. We also had

upon which found slightly more people in Scotland in favour of

keeping Trident in an independent Scotland. So the truth is this

emphasis on Trident, this reluctant to say there is any prospect of

anything other than the SNP position being accepted, is actually

something that they may need to save for that core audience, SNP

supporters, but doesn't necessarily play with the wider public, yet

apparently it is the wider public that the SNP are trying to appeal

to. So I think that extent this talk about trident cuts across what is

otherwise an attempt to reach out to a wider section of Scotland. We're

waiting for Alex Salmond to speak, we will show the hall at the moment.

At the moment a band are playing. Let us pause and let you hear some

of this. Make history now and don't ignore.

That this country is yours, this country is mine. Our future designed

by the strength of your mind. Were you not rejoice that you have a

choice, to be your nation's Scotland's voice. -- your nation's

Scotland force. Delegates enjoying that band before

Alex Salmond speaks, and it is quite unusual, this, for a party

conference. It is in a way up Rally for the referendum. The truth is now

that all the fees certainly Westminster parties at the UK

conferences tend to use what I would say is popular music, what is

interesting about what we have just seen of course is that we have got

folk style music. I think there is no doubt that one of the things that

is distinctive about those who have a strong sense of Scottish identity

is the degree to which Scotland's folk culture has become an important

way of expressing Scottish identity. Here we see that music used to try

to express a strong nationalist message, and the revival of Scottish

folk art in Scotland is part of what underlies the long-term rise in

people's sense of Scottish identity in Scotland.

Back to Brian, who is still at the whole and joined by couple of

journalists. Thanks for joining us. We are

expecting Alex Salmond shortly. What does he have to do? The SNP are

actually in a holding pattern at the moment. There are still -- they are

some weeks away so from launching their campaign, so the timing of

this conference is a bit awkward. They have to keep the troops failing

confident, it is a mass cuddle, that is what this conference is all

about. Is there one resolution -- did they not have one resolution

that a group hug would be a good idea? The real campaign we are all

waiting for, but the SNP are preparing for, will not take place

until the end of May. So this conference is actually quite static,

there isn't a great deal really happening. Even the speeches are

very, very much down to the main formula is the SNP pushing. I

haven't seen one resolution that hasn't been carried by a claim,

which is understandable given they are trying to promote a sole message

of independence. It is different from the vote -- the debate on NATO

year ago. This is about getting the love of the room going. In terms of

what Alex Salmond is going to do, I think there are two main aims. One

is to open up the independence debate, open up the cost outside the

SNP, and that carries on very much from what Nicola was doing

yesterday. The other thing is to delineate his campaign from the No

campaign, presenting a massively positive, outward looking, what can

we do to make Scotland a better place. Let us take this to elements

in turn. Alex Salmond playing down his own role. Is that a deliberate

strategy to try and... Yes, what that does is appeal to the

independence movement's strength, and is one of its strengths at the

moment is the fact that it is proving to be a political -- a

political consultant senses. The problem is that it may not be

enough, so they have to open this up even more and put aside party

grievances, histories of conflicts and so on. A lot of labour activists

will be looking at what Alex Salmond is saying today and feeling a great

deal of anger and resentment about it, thinking those -- you guys were

not playing consensual cross party politics before. Delegates out

canvassing tell me they are still getting something on the doorsteps

about entrenching that a vote for independence is a voter Alex

Salmond, which is presumably one of the reasons they are stressing it

would be a vote to allow a democratic vote for any other party?

And the bee will hear that as well when we go out to talk to people on

the street. People like the idea of independence, but they do not want

Alex Salmond. And he does realise that. He is a marmite figure, you

love or hate him. What about this strategy of including other

parties? Do you think it is a strategy that stands a chance of

making progress? It is essential we do it. The Liberal Democrats were

here to weeks ago -- two weeks ago and they were saying that there are

800,000 Labour voters who need to be attracted to the no vote. The SNP

realise that they can bring those guys over. Is that possible? I think

the problem is going to be that we cannot really tell what other

external factors will come into play. All sorts of thing can go

wrong for the UK government, for Ed Miliband. But we have not seen the

Labour campaign yet either. Despite everything we have been reporting,

it has not started yet. The SNP campaign, the yes campaign,

it has not started yet. The SNP Labour and Conservative campaign

will not start until after the European elections. It is the end of

May before the electoral commission will designate... We are giving up

towards the general election in 2015 as well. There is an issue about

whether that will be the focus down south and the prounion politicians

will be caught up on that and take their eye off the ball up here. The

atmosphere here is genuinely buoyant. Yes, they realise this is

possibly within their grasp. I think some of them are overconfident. But

I think some of them are more realistic, now that there is a lot

of work to be put in but that we can get there. Some have said they

expected the currency to be a bigger hit against the independence

argument. That is undoubtedly true. It did not work to the advantage of

the no campaign quite to the extent the no campaign hoped it would.

However, the opinion polls we are looking at at the moment may be

artificially inflating the yes vote. We need to be more cautious.

We will head back to the studio. We are expecting to hear from Alex

Salmond very shortly. John Curtis, Alex Salmond has made

many historic speeches. This is a pretty important one. Yes, because

politicians don't usually get 45 minutes direct your time on

television and get it so widely reported. This is his last chance

before the referendum. The truth is much of the yes campaign has been

spearheaded by Nicola Sturgeon. But it is Alex Salmond who is the person

who is remarkably popular and whom we would expect to be taking the

lead in this campaign from now on. We have begun to seek more of them.

I suspect we will see more of him in the next five months. If I were

running the yes campaign, I would be using Alex Salmond much more than

they have done so far. If they are going to win it, they will have to

use his undoubted continuing popularity. Nicola Sturgeon has just

introduced him just now. You say he is a popular figure, but is a...

Let's cross to the whole no. We are expecting to see Alex Salmond taking

to the stage after being introduced by the deputy leader Nicola

Sturgeon. He is being welcomed by the delegates and making his way to

the podium. Needless to say the fact that the

Scottish Grand National is on today tells you it is not me who decides

the timing of the Scottish National Party conferences. I have no

interest in photo bombing but I was thinking about the saltire lamb in

Dingwall, we could squeeze in a visit next week. It is great to be

in conference here in Aberdeen. We are here as ordinary members of the

National party -- Scottish National party. But we are the most

privileged members of that party in its entire history. This generation

has the opportunity for -- forebears could only dream of. We are part of

a greater movement, or and young men and women, artists, trade union

members. I movement of glorious diversity, reflecting our country's

spirit, dedicated to developing a better and fairer Scotland, to

become an independent country. Make no mistake, the momentum is

with this campaign. People are coming towards us. Political public

meetings are being revived. Holes are being crowded across Scotland as

they discuss our nation's future. The messages are amplified 100 times

over through social media. The campaign momentum carries on. Can

the no campaign match this? Not really. First of all, you would have

to organise meetings and then get people to turn up. Last year, the

BBC finally discovered that this grassroots campaign was underway and

decided to cover both sides of the debate. But the no campaign

struggled to find any grassroots campaign for them to film, or even a

single grass root. It is like what happened a few weeks ago in London

-- when the London and Scottish Cabinet met on the same day in

Aberdeen. We met import less than Hall -- Portlethan Parish Hall with

hundreds of people. The Westminster government cabinets met in private

behind closed doors in rooms belonging to shell oil. Prime

Minister, we can drum up a crowd for you in Scotland. All you have to do

is sit yes to a debate. -- say yes. What can you possibly be frightened

of? Just think how will your deputy did debating UKIP. Let's think about

if the fourth and fifth parties in Scotland can have a television

debate, why not the First Minister and Prime Minister? Let's at last

have the debate in an open and democratic way and let's agree to do

it now. Of course, not everyone is feart on

the no side. Alistair Help Me Rhona Carmichael Is in there fighting on

the no side. He was in Shetland, I safe distance from Nicola Sturgeon

excavation mark after the debate with Mike McKenzie, the Shetland

News reported, a show of hands reported that Mike McKenzie had

succeeded in widening the vote in favour of independence from 22-1.

Great is the truth and it will prevail. The problem for the no

campaign is this. The more the people of Scotland here the case for

now, the more likely they are to vote yes. And no wonder. They are

the most negative, miserable, depressing and thoroughly boring

campaign in history. They are already out of touch with

the people and now the I fear they are losing touch with reality. Lord

Robertson told startled Washington that the forces of darkness are

getting ready to celebrate a yes vote. The forces of darkness. Darth

Vader, Ming the merciless, the Klingons, Lex Luther. They are all

watching this debate intensely. I am told the Daleks are not too happy.

Word has reached them that Doctor Who is to be banned from an

independent Scotland. That is the no campaign. Totally laughable and

completely ludicrous. There is a serious point. We are

engaged in a consensual consultative process which will be decided at the

ballot box. It is not a unique process, but it is really something

to be cherished. The referendum in Scotland is being held up to the

world as an example of best practice. We should do everything in

our power to keep it that way and each and every one of us carries

that responsibility. People exercising the right to

self-determination in a lawful, agreed, respectful, democratic

manner is not a threat, but a noble thing. Big yes campaign is

positive, uplifting, hopeful and must always stay that way. That is

the basis on which we shall win this referendum and shall win our

independence. There was something else that can my

eye in the report on the Shetland debate. Local architect Ian

Morgenstern said he had never been an SNP voter but would vote yes in

September. Half his family are Geordies and on a recent trip south

by his grandmother's views, he asked for their views. They said, of

course you should vote yes. This touches on a fundamental truth. Many

people who have never voted for our party will be voting yes. The

referendum is not about this party or this First Minister, or even the

wider yes campaign. It is about putting Scotland's future into

Scotland's hands. I guess vote in September is not vote for an SNP

government in 2016. It is a vote for a government in Scotland that the

people of Scotland, pursuing policies the people of Scotland

support, it is a vote for the government in charge of tax,

immigration, European policy, oil and gas revenues. It might be the

SNP, it might be labour, it might be a coalition. I can tell you what it

won't be. It would be a government led by a party with just a single

member of parliament in Scotland. It would be a Government dismantling

the welfare state. The era of Tory Government -- Tory Government is

unelected by the people of Scotland handing out punishments to the poor

and disabled, these days will begun and gone for good. -- be gone.

The Westminster establishment as you would expect is fighting hard to

maintain its grip on Scotland. David Cameron's Government is opposing

independence, members of the house of Lords have given us the

unelected, distilled wisdom from underneath the ermine robes, all

that design to tell Scots how impossibly difficult it would be to

run our own country. -- designed. Backed up by a Labour Party

leadership that has lost its way. That has lost touch with the values

of Labour voters. Independence will be good for Scottish Labour. The

Scot -- the Labour Party will have the chance to return to core

values, many of which we in this party agree with, indeed any of

which we share. But there is something that the SNP will never

agree to, will never be a part of. Something we have campaigned us

might we will campaign against. The leadership of the Labour Party, hand

in glove with the Tories, and this is the difference. The Westminster

establishment telling Scots what we cannot do, the Scottish National

Party stressing what we can do, building Scotland art. -- building

Scotland up. So let us look at the reality of

Scotland's history. Scotland's contribution to humankind has been

immense. Great in the net, philosophers, our commitment to

science, innovators, educators. I am back from New York. There is

enormous interest in Scotland, it helped us gain all -- over 1000 jobs

this week alone. In the opinion of American

historians, Scotland invented the modern world. Something of course we

would not claim for ourselves, but nonetheless don't mind repeating as

often as possible. But still today, modern Scotland. Now top

universities per head than any other part of the country. Williams in

creative industries, a world-class Food Drink industry, manufacturers

exporting across the world, and a 5% of Europe's offshore wind and tidal

potential, 60% of the EU's oil reserves, a Government 100% to

committing to a better future. We will not tell -- let anybody tell

the people of Scotland we are not good enough to run our own country.

Friends, a short distance from the centre is a vibrant, busy Aberdeen

harbour. It is full of vessels servicing Scotland's thriving oil

and gas industry. They will be here for many, many decades to come, and

oil and tax revenues will continue to flow for many decades to come.

What a shock this thing must be for the opponents to independence,

because in the 1970s they said no to self-government because they told us

all that oil would be gone by now. In the 1980s they said the Tories

were laying waste to the steel industry, the car industry in the

coal mines. In the 1990s they were still saying no because they said we

were not capable of running our schools and hospitals. That is the

No campaign, wrong in the 1970s, the 1980s, the 1990s, wrong again today.

In September, it is time to say Yes. Scotland has not -- has got what it

takes. Our Parliament working together to produce free personal

care for the elderly. This party in Government has restored free

education. We have kept Scottish Water in public hands, and there is

no better example of why decisions about Scotland are best taken in

Scotland than the future of our Scottish National Health Service. At

Westminster the NHS has been softened up for privatisation. The

Tories are forcing through costly, confusing, harmful top diarrhoea

organisation. Nurses are being denied a pay rise they deserve. --

top down organisation. We reject the free market in health, we have

abolished description charges. Nurses in Scotland are getting their

recommended pay rise. So let us be absolutely clear,

conference, it is because we have control of the health service that

we can give this pledge. Scotland's National Health Service will never

be up for sale. Scotland is a wealthy country. We

more than pay our way as an independent nation, we would be the

14th most prosperous country in the developed world. The UK are at

position 18. Is anybody meant to believe that the 14th most proper

splits country cannot sustain itself as an independent country? 's

prosperous country. The ratings agency, not known for their

unbridled optimism on any country's prospects, said in February, even

excluding North Sea output, even excluding North Sea output, Scotland

would qualify for our highest economic assessment.

And so in September the people of this wealthy country will face a

choice between two futures. What future is to put our faith in

Westminster. In a system where the five richest families are more

wealth than the poorest 12 thousand's trough bod 5 million

people. Where charities are warning of a poverty storm engulfing

Scotland. -- 12.5 million people. Delegates, these are not reasons for

putting our faith in Westminster or the Westminster system, these are

reasons to get rid of the West as the system. -- the Westminster

system. All of us know an independent Scotland will not get

every decision right, there will be choice is to be made and challenges

to be faced. The point is to be equipped with the powers we need to

meet these challenges. Not to shrug our shoulders and accept Scotland as

a region of a grossly unequal country, but to take

responsibility, to build a more resilient economy, to create jobs

and opportunities, and we can do this by capturing a sense of shared

national purpose. A shared national mission to build a fairer and more

prosperous country. By giving our company is a competitive edge in

taxation, by re-industrialising Scotland, by building a lasting

social partnership. But whether we succeed or fail in our ambition will

be down to one factor, the talents and abilities of our people. So the

days of wasting talent, denying opportunity, must end. And yet

charities tell us that up to 100,000 more Scottish children are set to

grow up in poverty because of the Westminster Government's actions. So

we will stop the poverty creating policies. The minimum wage must rise

at least in line with inflation. And in the first year of an independent

Scotland, we shall abolish the bedroom tax.

To release the potential of our people, we must do more however.

That is why we'll put into action our plan to transform childcare. It

was put to me first by the late Professor of Glasgow Caledonian

University, University whose motto is for the common good. She was

passionate in her belief that independence could change Scotland

for the better. We will start the process by transferring money from

Westminster's priorities to Scotland's priorities. We will save

?50 million a year because we will not -- paying for the house of

Lords, sending MPs to the House of Commons or funding the Scottish

office. In a time of tight resources we do

not believe it is right to go ahead with David Cameron's married

couples' tax allowances. For us, childcare for all families is the

priority. Not tax breaks for a few. We will have another priority,

spending ?100 billion over a generation on a new generation of

nuclear weapons is an obscenity. And therefore, let me give this Kast

Byron guarantee. A Yes vote is a vote to remove these weapons from

Scotland once and for all. -- a cast-iron guarantee.

Doesn't this crystallise the choice between two futures? Westminster

wants to renew a weapons system that can destroy the world. We will build

a system of childcare which will be the envy of the world.

Let me tell you why this plan is so important. It is about changing the

destiny of Scotland's prose children. Early years education and

childcare benefits the most those families who have the least. --

poorest children. Childcare costs are a barrier to work, the real root

out of poverty. With devolution we are investing more than a quarter of

?1 billion over the next two years to expand childcare. But to

transform childcare, we need the powers of independence. Some people

say, well, it could be done under devolution. But under devolution,

nearly 90% of the tax generated on women's employment earnings go

straight to the Westminster Exchequer. In an independent

Scotland, with control of our Budget, we can invest far, far more

in our children's future. High-quality universal childcare and

early learning for all of Scotland's children, that is the

independence pledge. Delegates, transforming childcare

will open up opportunity for many, many more women in Scotland. But our

ambition match school must further. -- must go much further. Unequal

opportunity to -- an equal opportunity to join the workforce,

and we want our companies to aspire to a least 40% female participation

on the boards. We will have the power to enforce the equal pay act.

This issue of equality, of equal opportunities, is of the highest

importance. The minister in charge because it in the Scottish

Government has been asked to join the Scottish Cabinet as a full

member, and also to take on specific responsibilities for pensioners'

writes. -- writes. -- rights. The Scotland we are seeking to build

will be unequal Scotland where everyone has the opportunity to make

the most of their talents. Youth unemployment is the single biggest

challenge we face a meeting that goal. The Scottish Government is

working hard to tackle this blight of joblessness among the young. We

have 25,000 or more modern apprenticeships. There is the

guarantee of work at a training place for every 16 to 19-year-old.

We are producing exciting proposals which will online our education and

training systems ever closer to the work face. That work has been

overseen by the only minister for youth employment in Europe. -- today

I have asked her to become a full member of the Scottish Parliament --

Cabinet and to take full responsibility for work training.

These appointments are important because the underlying our

commitment to equality. Subject to parliamentary approval, with these

two outstanding ministers in this Scottish Parliament, we will

practice what we preach. The Cabinet is our board is a country. Women

will make up 40% of the Members of the Scottish Parliament at.

In this speech, I stress that an independent Scotland would be an

inclusive Scotland. There are many different colours and parades woven

into the Scottish Tartan, and all must be celebrated. We need to

mobilise all of the talents and all of the potential of all of our

people. We have to reflect that in how we will proceed after September

the 18th. The approach people take to bring Scotland together. With a

yes vote on September the 18th, that work will begin. An all-party team

Scotland negotiating group including non-SNP members will convene. It

will secure expertise across the political spectrum, and beyond

Scotland. That group will meet before the end of September.

Discussions will be held in accordance with the terms of the

Edinburgh agreement. That means with respect and in the interests of

everyone in Scotland, and indeed, in the rest of the UK. The campaigning

rhetoric will be over. The real work will begin. In March 2016, Scotland

will become an independent country and joined the international family

of nations. Over the last week, as the great

life of Margo MacDonald has been celebrated, many pictures were

posted showing her out campaigning for independence through the years.

In one, which is on the cover of this week's Holyrood magazine, a

young Margo MacDonald is outside the old Royal high school in Edinburgh

holding a big poster of a love heart with the words, yes, we love you

Scotland. In this referendum debate, we often hear that sentiment. For

some, it will be a love of the outstanding natural beauty of our

country, the rich diversity of the life and landscape. But our cause is

about more than landscape, more than history, more than legends, no

matter how romantic or moving. One historian once brought about

Scotland's vitality as a human community. I think that is what it

was for Margo MacDonald. She did not just of Scotland, she loved Scots,

she loved people. She held the unshakeable conviction that we could

do better for and by our people. This referendum will be one when we

as a people no longer feel we have to ask of others, tell me what will

happen to us. It will be one when the people of Scotland say we are

going to take the future into our own hands. The eyes of the world

will be on Scotland in September, watching to see what we will do.

When the voting has been done, let us resolve this. Let us keep the

eyes of the world on Scotland. Not to see how we are voting, but to

watch in admiration at what we are building. Building a new and better

country. Let's take all our ideals, talent, commitment and energy and

build a nation that carries itself with pride and utility in equal

measure. That looks to its own but gives to the world as much as it

possibly can. Which yields to know one in compassion, but to no one in

ambition. And come independent state, for that country to walk tall

among the nations on earth, on that day and every day thereafter. This

is our moment. To be a beacon of hope, a land of achievement, our

country, our Scotland, our independence.

The First Minister, Alex Salmond, receiving a standing ovation from

delegates at the Aberdeen exhibition and conference centre. He was

talking about the no campaign being laughable and ridiculous and seeing

the yes campaign was positive, uplifting and hopeful. He said the

referendum was not about this party, this First Minister, but saying also

that independence would be good for Scottish Labour. He said the eyes of

the world will be on Scotland. The delegates all applauding beer. The

members of the world's press taking their pictures. Wondering if there

might be an encore. Professor John Curtis is still with me in the

studio, watching this rapturous applause from the delegates. They

are enjoying this. Undoubtedly. Much of the speech was designed to appeal

to that audience, not least the attack on David Cameron and his

reluctance to get involved in the debate with Alex Salmond. Something

that the yes side have been pushing for. But in truth, we know it is not

going to happen. And that very strong comment on Trident, which

again was clearly designed for those in the hole. But this was a speech

about was designed to reach outside the whole and above all to women

voters. This is the group amongst whom they yes side are still

substantially behind. We saw that clever ploy. The SNP believe that

40% of boards should be women. Then he promotes two of his Scottish

ministers to the Cabinet. Clearly trying to say we are a female

friendly party and movement. Whether that will work on that we will have

to see. The childcare announcement and policy has not succeeded in

closing the gender gap. Whether the greater visible face of more women

will do that, we will have to wait and see. A huge amount of interest

as the cameras follow him there. I wonder if he might take to the

stage again. Even John Swinney is taking pictures there. A very

important moment for the SNP. It is and one of the interesting things

about this speech is that although a lot of it was about how positive we

are, larger chunks of it was very critical of the United Kingdom.

Saying this is not about the merits or demerits of independence, it is

also about what Scotland gets out of the United Kingdom and criticising

the United Kingdom for its nuclear policy, too much poverty, and that

there would be more property in Scotland remained in the UK. Arguing

that independence was the best way of protecting Scotland's future and

public services. He is back on stage.

Appear, the BBC cameras have knocked the water jug over. I was always

suspicious of the media! We have got a job of work on our hands so let's

get to it and win the sport for Scotland. Thank you. -- this vote. A

final word from the First Minister. Brian Taylor has stepped out from

the hall to speak to us now. Rapturous applause for the First

Minister, what are you initial thoughts?

They appeal to women is really intriguing. A sector of society, a

majority sector of society where perhaps the SNP and the wider yes

campaign have struggled. I'm sure it is no accident that in the week that

David Cameron was obliged to sack a woman from his Cabinet, Alex Salmond

is appointing two more and seeing that as a matter of policy, he would

have a 40% female membership in the Scottish Cabinet. And allied to the

offer to stress the importance of childcare comedy is targeting the

female vote. He is talking about inclusion and consensus, but that

only goes so far. It does not appear to include the Conservative Party.

He said there could be an SNP government, and Labour government,

but did not see the return of a Conservative government. This idea

of a semi permanent 's of -- semipermanent SNP government, and

the women voters, he was paying attention to that. Making this

pitch. This is strategic. We are going to return to the hall.

Scots Wha Hae, that additional rendition. It must be quite

emotional for the delegates. The final commission from the First

Minister to go forth into the world and win this. Yes, he did a little

encore speech and then the traditional rendering of Scots Wha

Hae. Perhaps an extra sense of passion for the delegates, knowing

that as they close this conference, they go out into five months of

direct campaigning. The entire conference has been predicated on

that. There has hardly been a resolution that does not -- that has

not been carried over -- other than by a claim.

-- acclaim. Then Alex Salmond was making this

speech, it was also directed to people outside the hall, was he

tying up a few loose ends? He was to a degree. But I think this speech

was as much about attacking the United Kingdom and what Alex Salmond

thinks as the deficiencies of the United Kingdom in general and for

Scotland, is about pushing the case for independence. To that extent, he

was the SNP trying to put that no side on the defensive. There has

been a feeling, in the wake of the apparent failure of the currency

intervention, but no site has been nervous, people have been asking

questions of it. He was applying pressure. Attacking the tactics of

the no campaign. I think in the past there has been a reluctance on the

yes side to pursue this argument, perhaps because of the appreciation

that lots of people still feel British, still keeping the social

union. All that was gone. There was an awful lot about the alleged

disadvantages of remaining in the union. Thank you very much.

I am now joined by Nicola Sturgeon. Thank you for joining me. You are

very welcome. Let us look at the issue of this

appeal to Labour support. You were clear in your speech yesterday, the

First Minister was clear today. Is this perhaps a little desperate,

trying to reach out to that soft Labour vote? We want Labour

supporters to vote Yes. A Yes vote is not a vote for the SNP or

fundamentally about the SNP, it is about democracy and taking decisions

about Scotland's future into Scotland's hands. I know lots of

people with an attachment to Labour share the same attachment to social

justice that I and my colleagues in the SNP do, so I Yes vote is a way

to get the powers to achieve that. It is a chance to get -- for Labour

supporters it is a chance to get their own party back. They have seen

Labour move away from the values that brought them to the party, they

have played two Middle England to get elected to Westminster. -- they

have played to Middle England. I Yes for you Labour supporters as a

chance to reclaim their own party, and I think that is one of the

reasons why we are seeing an increasing number of them back the

Yes campaign. But they say you totally misunderstand the whole

point of being a Labour supporter, that these are people who say they

created the welfare state as part of the UK, they achieved social justice

through the UK, and we have that redistribution and security through

the UK, and you totally fail to understand this. But these things

that Labour supporters hold here, the welfare state, the National

Health Service, they say -- that they say were created through the

UK, and the very institutions that are being destroyed and undermined

by Westminster. Health service south of the border is being broken up.

The only reason it is not ain't done in Scotland is because we have power

over it here. The welfare state is being dismantled before

recommendation. The way to protect those institutions is to vote yes so

that we take decisions about the future. It is easy as it was for

members of the Labour Party to say I do not understand Labour supporters.

I admit I have never voted Labour. But Dennis Canavan understands

Labour supporters, he is voting Yes. The former Labour Lord Provost of

Glasgow is voting Yes and there are many, many more. But you are

reaching out, you are trying to have this kind of consensual approach,

there is this Team Scotland who will begin negotiating immediately after

a Yes vote. Do you think this is going to appeal to the people of

Scotland, this kind of consensual approach? Yes, I do. We are in a

campaign right now, and speaking for the Yes campaign we are going to

fight this campaign with everything we have got. I would expect those

who want to see a No vote will do likewise. Referendums by their very

nature can lead to polarised debate. I think the debate itself is a good

opportunity for the country, but on the 19th September we are one

country, coming together to take the country forward. If there is a Yes

vote, we are very clear, the next moves in Scotland's journey, the

negotiations to expand -- establish our independence are not just for

the SNP to take forward, they must include people from all different

persuasions to build that Team Scotland approach. And I am

absolutely sure that those who are campaigning now for a No vote, I

believe they believe it, and it is legitimate for them to do so, but

after a -- after a Yes vote, they will be on the side we are on,

watching the best for Scotland. You are also appealing to women voters.

The Yes campaign desperately need them on board. You will be looking

forward to having a -- Angela Constance and Shona Robinson run the

Cabinet table. But isn't this a cynical ploy, wide web there in the

Cabinet in 2011? No, it is leading by example. They are friends of

mine, close colleagues, they are outstanding ministers. They are

joining the Cabinet with extra responsibilities and they will be

fantastic Cabinet secretaries, but we have made it very clear, we want

to see greater gender equality in the country, we want companies to

aspire to have 40% at least of the board members women, and if we are

saying we want others to do that we want -- we have a duty to lead by

example. If Parliament approves these appointments, our Cabinet, our

country's board if you like, we have 40% female representation, something

I am very proud of. Shona's extra responsibilities will be associated

with pensioners, Angela's of female employment, and these are very

important groups in society. Young people Angela already deals with

youth employment, supporting more women into the workplace and making

sure our older citizens have the best possible deal. These are

important priorities and I know that Angela and Shona would do them

extremely well. As you appeal to these different sectors, women,

Labour voters, this kind of consensual approach, you are still

not getting there are, are you? You are still not reaching that 50%

mark. The polls are suggesting that you perhaps do not quite have that

momentum, and we were speaking to one journalist earlier who is

saying, the better together campaign will start after the European

elections. Well, we have to reach that 50% mark and above hopefully on

September 18th. What we have seen over the past few months is London's

-- unmistakable narrowing in the opinion polls. The average Yes

support has gone from 30% dust and Lambert 46% right now -- 38%. We go

out of this conference full of determination to persuade people

Scotland can be independent, it should be independent, and we must

be independent. Nicola Sturgeon, thank you very much for joining us

this afternoon. John is still with me here in the

studio. Nicola Sturgeon said the delegates the art enthused, they are

going out there to win. But she did say a job of work still to do. Two

things emerge from that, the first is that nobody on the Yes side is

claiming as yet they are ahead, they are simply claiming they have made

improvement, we can argue about 46% figure but certainly they have made

improvement. All -- there was some suggestion in the last three polls

that maybe the improvement has stopped and that maybe they need to

kick-start their engine again. The second thing, we heard Angus talking

about it before. There is no doubt that the Yes campaign is more active

on the ground. We can measure it in social media, my colleagues have

been charting this, and have shown quite clearly that throughout this

campaign, where supporters of independence have been using Twitter

and social media and Facebook ban have No supporters. There is a lot

of anecdotal evidence to suggest there are more Yes meetings, and

more activists out there. A failure to realise that from many people

inside the independence movement, they are campaigning something they

have believed in all their lives, thought would never happen, and are

really desperate and keen to see happen. On the No side there are

lots of people certainly do not want to live in the UK, but the reaction,

-- the reaction is, why are do I have to fight? It is a much more

reticent waste just to hang on to what they have got, and isn't

generally quite the same enthusiasm. -- it doesn't quite.

Brian Taylor is standing by once again.

We are seeing the delegates stream out of the hole. The optimism must

be running pretty high after that speech. It is, but it has been right

through the conference. They think they are going to do it. What did

you make of the speech? I can take you what the delegates made of it.

When the First Minister left the platform and then came back, the

crowd just went absolutely well. It played MED -- incredibly well with

the audience. What they need now is for the central message to get out

beyond these delegates. Web macro it isn't about convincing the delegates

here, they are sold. A series of key messages, were there? In a micro

attic the overriding message of this conference is that they need the

support of people who do not normally back the SNP, if they are

to get over the winning line in seven -- in September. So we have

heard from Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon and appeal to Labour voters

to come onside and fall in behind the idea of independence. I think

the conference has been very much about reaching out to those groups,

and also in Alex Salmond's speech, his announcement about women and

trying to ensure that 40% of boardrooms are made up of women, is

an appeal to a hard to reach group in the independence debate.

But it is hard to reach, that is an overt recognition that they are

still perhaps having a difficult time persuading women to go for

independence? We had a big section on childcare, this policy announced

at a previous conference which actually there are questions about

how affordable this is, they skirted over those and talk up the value of

childcare and universal childcare, and then moved on to the equal

opportunities in the workplace for women, the 40%, and put his money

where his mouth was by promoting two women to his own Cabinet. But

consensus on the ghost Jafar, because in the pitch to Labour

voters is explicitly saying that the Tories would be banished from

Scotland. What he is neglecting to say here is that if they were to be

a Yes vote, I think what we would see is a bit of a resurgence of a

centre-right party. It might not be the Tories, but you cannot say that

we will have Scotland's future in our own hands but by the way there's

not going to be a centre-right party. But you have to say that a

pitch to Labour voters. Yes, they are pitching in terms of getting rid

of the Tories, which will be attractive to Labour voters. They

also think that some key Labour supporters will be attracted to the

idea of getting rid of Trident, nuclear weapons, their commitment

not to privatise the NHS. So those key messages again were being

hammered home in Nicola Sturgeon's and Alex Salmond's speeches. Hardly

any other Cabinet minister has had an opportunity to address this

conference. It has been heavily focused on those two. Trident is --

the Trident point, a rebuttal of the suggestion there could be a deal

between that and the currency. Yes, we said -- we heard that a currency

you would be done, but the quid pro quo on that was that something would

have to be negotiated with Trident. Nicola and Alex were both

categorical on that. Just one word, we are almost out of time. They want

to get rid of Trident in the first parliament after independence, they

have never said though that there is a fixed deadline for that to

happen, and that is perhaps weather is room for negotiation.

Back to the studio. Throughout the spring conference

season we have been taking a sideways look at who exactly goes to

these events. As nationalists prepare for what could be -- they

believe could be the home straight, here is the SNP.

MUSIC: "Happy" by Pharell Willams. -- Williams.

That brings our conference coverage to an end. From the team in Aberdeen

and from us here in the studio, have a good afternoon. Goodbye.