01/10/2012 Stormont Today


01/10/2012

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Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. It has been a busy day here are on

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the hill, following the news that the leader of the Ulster Unionist

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Party has sacked his deputy. It was only a few weeks ago they showed a

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united front at their party conference but that has now been

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shattered, ironically following a row over Unionist unity.

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And another unity row was staring, about same-sex marriage. I am

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opposed to gay marriage and I would have no intention of bringing

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forward earlier legislation to this House to make easier gay marriage.

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People can pretend it is the same as other partnership but it is not.

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And a testing time for GCSEs of. have been in office for 18 months

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and I do not believe any members It has been a lively day here in

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Stormont. Our reporter is here to talk us through what has been

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happening. First, those ructions in the Ulster Unionist Party. Yes.

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This started with a speech given over the weekend, when the leader

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said the party was sleepwalking into unity. He said the DUP had

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given the impression the Unionist rain had left the station and that

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Peter Robinson was in good dry's cab smiling broadly. He yesterday

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denied this was an attack but they did not see it that way. Jim

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Allister was sacked as leader. what has he said to say about that?

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He has not given any interviews but he has issued a short statement,

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saying he was disappointed with the decision but accepted he had the

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right as leader. At the same time, the Press Office released a

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statement for the Assembly grid saying Mike Nesbitt had received

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many complaints about the use of the phrase "sleepwalking into

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Unionist unity". They said when the United Front was required the UUP

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would not be found wanting. What about anything from anybody else?

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No other word from any body today but we have heard from Basil McCrea.

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He is very close to Jim Allister on the liberal end of the party. He

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was speaking in Belfast at an event organised by the Conservative Party.

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If I am not sure there is a difference between the two. I will

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make it clear I supported John and I think he is an excellent

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politician. He made a speech a few days ago, actually, which set out

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what he considered to be the right way forward for the party and I am

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sure people, having read it, we understand the content is something

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we can all agree with. The other big talking point - the

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debate on gay marriage. Yes. In Westminster, the governments are

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consulting on plans to bring in gay marriage. Here, any changes to

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marriage or fall in the domain of the first and Deputy First Minister

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us and the Department of Finance. Councils have been debating the

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issues and all but one have come out of favour. Today it was the

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turn of MLAs to debate the issue. The Green Party MLA was there as

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well. Thank you. That call for marriage quality did naked to the

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House today. The Finance Minister was called on to introduce

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legislation to make sure all couples should have equal legal

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entitlement to the protections and benefits of marriage.

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If whether this motion is passed or not today and whether we legislate

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for equal marriage, this will have little or no impact on our lives.

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However, there are those who happen to love and wish to commit to

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somebody of the same sex. And they are currently denied the

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opportunity to marry. If we as an Assembly have the opportunity to

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say today that we see these couples as equal and see their love as

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being equal. This is not a debate about the quality. Rather it is a

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debate about redefining the centuries old meaning of the word

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marriage. It is simply a myth that Mrs and equality issue because the

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quality already exists. People are free by marriage or civil

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partnership to take on the same rights and bear the same legal

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burdens, no matter what type of relationship they choose to enter

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into. If we fail in this motion, we are sending out a message that the

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lesbian, gay and trans-gender community are not equal and

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creating conditions in which their basic rights are eroded and this is

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unacceptable. We support the extension of civil and marriages to

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same-sex couples. There we are very clear that robust protections are

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provided and encapsulated within legislation to we sure faith groups

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and religious groups will not be forced to conduct same-sex marriage

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ceremonies or to have them conducted on their premises. It --

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to ensure. I would ask one member from the Unionist benches to speak.

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I am aware many people in my community are deeply uneasy about

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it and respect their position. And I am surprised that the DUP have

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felt the need to present a position of concern on a matter that should

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clearly be a free vote. It is also about real people. It is about sons,

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daughters, brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts. And it is about

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parents who want to see their children in loving, secure, stable

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and permanent relationships. Protected by the legal institution

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of marriage. Members will know my party believes issues of this

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nature should be subject to individual conscience and not party

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dictates. And as someone with a clear personal faith, yet tolerant

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of the right of others to hold and express their views, I want to set

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out my personal position on the subject of same-sex marriage. I do

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not and cannot support the principle of same-sex marriage.

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am opposed to gay marriage. I would have no intention of bringing

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forward any legislation to this House to facilitate gay marriage

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and I believe that in doing that I do reflect what is a general view

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in this society, in Northern Ireland. The proposer of the motion

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has to think about the right to get married, the right to private

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family life, etc. But equally the other ministers talked about the

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rights of people to have religious freedom and religious beliefs. And

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in this particular case, the two are not compatible. People across

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the way can pretend, or some people, can pretend civil partnership is

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the same as equal marriage. It is not. To pretend a words do not hurt

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young and old... That is an absolute pretence, and take

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responsibility for our words. That's what we have to do.

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proposal needed a cross-community majority -- needed a cross-

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community majority to succeed but only 45 voted to back the move.

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Joining need to discuss the matter is Gavin Boyd from Equal Marriage.

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Obviously, if you look at those figures, there is no overwhelming

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appetite to change the law. Do you accept that? No. I think what we

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saw today was an enormous vote in favour of couples. I think what we

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saw today would have been completely inconceivable a few

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years ago so it is a great move forward for us. But they are still

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in a minority and there is a bigger set of legislators opposed to the

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change? Absolutely. The issue of rights for same-sex attracted

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people have always been minority issues, particularly in Northern

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Ireland. What we are seeing is that they are not that much of a

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minority issue. It is increasing in number. Can you tell me why it

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civil partnerships are not enough? In terms of legal recognition,

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couples in civil partnerships are barred from adopting. That is just

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one reason... Is that your main point of concern? No, I think if

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you were asked to talk to people, young people in particular, they

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don't see them as being equal and afforded the same recognition.

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Because you could just campaign for a change in the adoption law?

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is already going on and there is a judicial review being defended by

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the Department of Health at the minute and we expect the ruling

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will come out of favour of allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

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But even if that does happen, you think equality as far as marriage

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is concerned is important? Absolutely. It is unreasonable to

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expect gay people do not want any part of that institution. Can you

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see the DUP changing its mind? It might be the numbers are better

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than they were five, 10 years ago, but the DUP will never accept this?

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I am not too sure about this. If we look at the demographics, I think

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it is a bit early to tell what they will be voting in favour of. What

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we can see from the language is that the DUP is not the same party

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it was 30 years ago. They were very careful not to use the same emotive

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language today and I think that is a real sign of how far they have

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come. If there was also a disagreement amongst members of

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other parties as well. We saw that in the Ulster Unionist Party, the

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SDLP and the Alliance Party? That is true. I think what you saw is

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that there is a breadth of opinion on this. There is cross-party

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support and what we saw today was the work there is still there for

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us to do. But the vote is still very close and if it was to happen

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again 18 months from now, two years, it would be much tighter, if not an

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outright majority. Thank you. John O'Dowd told the Assembly today

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the time has come for a review of GCSEs and A-levels. It follows the

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recent decision by the Education Secretary in Westminster to replace

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GCSEs by a proposed baccalaureate. This will mean an opportunity for

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all, including a pupils, to consider how the education system

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meets the needs of our children as well as those of our economy. I

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also want to reassure pupils Curran is studying for GCSEs or A-levels

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that the examining process is fit for purpose and to those past

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pupils of the system, they, too, should be proud of their

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qualifications. If our education system is to be recognised as world

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class, I do not go for change for the sake of change. But if it is

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deemed to be appropriate, I would be tempted to stick with what we

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have. But we want to satisfy myself with research across the

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educational business sector that this is the case. If I consequently,

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I am committing a review of GCSE and A-level qualifications taking -

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- to ensure they continue to meet our economic needs in the future. I

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would ask them to take for this review. I have asked them to

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provide two reports, one in January 2013 and another in March, and

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another in June 2013. We will consider the findings and

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recommendations to point the way And does the Minister still believe,

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as he in earlier this year, that it is important that the standard of

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exams remains the same as in England? Yes. Maybe not exactly the

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same, maybe better. I did that students from here and prospective

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employees here have to be confident that the qualification certificates

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that they carry are equal to, if not better to, any qualification

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system across these islands. I want to make sure their qualifications

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are portable and transferable. It will be to work either across these

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islands or internationally, whatever qualification system we

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decide on. Is it not clear that the present GCSEs are too weak the tool

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to command educational and employee or respect. Therefore a more

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rigorous exam is necessary. If most -- with most of the rest of the

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United Kingdom moving in that direction it would be wholly

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prejudicial to allow students to seek to hold on to what could be

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seen to be dumbed down exams. Can the Minister assure us that that

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option is not an option and would be taken? Well, none of the

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research backs up the comment on the fact... I don't think they are

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a discredited exams process. There are clearly points of view in

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regards this matter but none of the research would suggest that GCSEs

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have failed the functions that an exam is there for. To test the

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ability of an individual on their learning and ability to carry out

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functions. I don't accept it on a premise. However I do want to watch

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a short, and I have said publicly that Michael Gove may have fatally

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flawed the product of GCSEs and that perception may build and grow.

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I don't want any young person leaving hour examination system

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with a certificate which may, for all the wrong reasons, be looked

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down on. I want our young people to leave our education system with

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examinations they can be proud on and are portable and transferable

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across these idols -- Island and further afield. I have no interest

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in dumbing-down any examination process because it does no favour

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to the individual and no favour to our society. I have asked to meet

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Michael Gove and he has refused to meet me. It is not a case I have a

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phobia of meeting Michael Gove. We may not be on the same page in

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regards many things but he has refused to meet myself and I

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understand he has refused to meet the Welsh education minister as

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well in relation to the subject of exams. He has offered a meeting

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with one of his junior ministers. Setting my ego aside I may take him

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upon that offered to meet a junior minister. However I believe that

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Michael Gove should be meeting his counterparts and I cannot speak on

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behalf of the Welsh counterpart but I certainly believe he should be

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meeting me. Surely after that statement by the education minister

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the Assembly debated the issue further in the DUP motion

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expressing concerns about the possible implications of any

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replacement to GCSEs will have on students in Northern Ireland.

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welcome the announcement made by the Minister this morning to

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undertake a review of GCSEs and A- levels in Northern Ireland. It does

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not go unnoticed that this announcement was made on the

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morning of this debate. The minister has quite rightly

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acknowledged that following Education Secretary Michael Gove's

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announcement, he has a duty to undertake this review. I am pleased

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that in the response to questions today the review will encompass all

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aspects of the examination system. I think his comments about it being

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a consultation rather than a knitter Association may give cause

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for concern that he may already have a predetermined view. All

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consultations should be reviewed through the lens of legal

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requirements. The Secretary of State for England has made his

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intentions known about the changes he intends to make to the GCSE

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system. I believe that it is now the job of this assembly and our

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own education minister, in particular to mitigate against any

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potential negative implications for students here in Northern Ireland

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and ensure that our examination system is highly regarded across

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the whole of the UK and Republic of Ireland and further afield. There

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is no denying that the major implications that Michael Gove's

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recent announcement could have on students in Northern Ireland. Once

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education has been devolved the two administrations throughout the

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United Kingdom, it is no mean feat that our educational policy has

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remained relatively harmonised. I don't doubt for one moment the

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authority with which he can speak but I do believe it shows a failure

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in effective working relationships that he was in a position to make

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such a radical announcement without having engaged in even minimum

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consultation with his devolved counterparts. Despite the

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criticisms were some members of the GCSE system, I have been in office

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18 months and I don't believe that any member has taken an interest in

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GCSEs before Michael Gove stood up in Westminster and made his

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announcement. Alex Attwood was at the despatch box for questions to

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the Department of Environment. Road safety, driver training and marine

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conservation zones or on the agenda. So far this year there have been 31

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deaths on the roads, compared with 41 at this time last year. I would

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not draw any conclusions from that, given that we are now entering into

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the winter months as to what the figure will be at the end of the

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year but it does suggest to me that through a range of measures, we are

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bearing down on this issue of road deaths. Can I ask the Minister that

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a new proposal he is thinking of and that is restricting young

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drivers in the first six months not to be able to carry a very young

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passengers? Not only do I intend to go forward with this because there

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was virtual unanimity and very strong endorsement of the proposals

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are put to the executive in principle in the first week in July

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in terms of graduated penalties on one hand and the changes to driver

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training regime on the other. One of those proposals, borrow from

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international best practice, which you see in this part of Ireland,

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the most radical driver training regime in this island is we will

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restrict newly-qualified drivers for six months after qualification

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as to who they may carry. Can the minister indicate if emergency

:21:34.:21:38.

payments will be extended to include those whose properties are

:21:38.:21:44.

affected by flooding? I will certainly look at the situation but

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the council has not yet raised with me. The scheme has been extended

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even in recent days and weeks in order to capture further flooding

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events were the they might be. fishing industry is supportive of

:21:59.:22:05.

the marine the bubble concern. Given that the fishing industry and

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that environmentalists agree that the displacement is an important

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issue, will he ensure that the process does examine this issue

:22:13.:22:18.

thoroughly to ensure there is no unforeseen or negative consequences

:22:18.:22:23.

as a result of designating his own? I can give that reassurance. If

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there is an area that might be designated a marine conservation

:22:31.:22:33.

zone, there will be in-depth discussion in that regard and part

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of that will be to get a good understanding of the geology, the

:22:39.:22:48.
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wildlife, habitats, and the ecology of the area. So far we have not

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heard the full number of marine conservation zones yet that are

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intended to be created. When will you be able to tell us how many you

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will create and the cost? We have not yet got the bill on the floor

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of the chamber and it maybe that I will try to prevail upon my

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executive colleagues to support further amendments that are coming

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out of the committee stage but it is likely that the first area that

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might become a marine conservation zone is in the south. Tourism

:23:24.:23:28.

dominated questions to the enterprise minister Arlene Foster

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today. Topics ranged from promoted orange and Unionist cultures as a

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product of tourism to the success of Titanic Belfast. First there was

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the question about the gay quarter in Belfast. Promotion of Belfast as

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a tourist destination. Belfast City Council integrated framework for

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tourism was developed in partnership with other Northern

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Ireland Tourist Board. Through the framework they have been supporting

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Belfast City Council in the development of the city centre. It

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includes the quarter. We have a rich culture of heritage that we

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should celebrate and I celebrate -- look forward to showcasing many

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aspects of our culture. Following on from the success of the

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celebrations at the weekend, when thousands of tourists came to

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Northern Ireland, can the Minister advise what she's doing to promote

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orange and Unionist culture as a product of tourism within Northern

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:24:49.:24:52.

Ireland? I will take it because this is culture and tourism. In

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relation to the Ulster celebrations at the weekend, they were a huge

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success. I commend the Unionists centenary and everybody at the

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Orange Lodge of Northern Ireland that brought together all the

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elements of Unionism to commemorate what was a hugely significant

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anniversary in our history. As the years have come on and follow on,

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there will be many events which will mean more to some people than

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others. We must, all of us, respect the right of everyone have to

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remember the significant events in the past and in one way or another

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we must recognise that they all have contributed to making us the

:25:34.:25:37.

people we are today and indeed Northern Ireland the place it is

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today so this is the start of the decade of centenaries. As members

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are aware we are working in relation to the centenaries and we

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hope we will have as good a day as we did on Saturday for the rest of

:25:56.:26:03.

the celebrations. Can the Minister provide some additional information

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about the tourism campaign for 2013 and if she feels that 2013 will be

:26:09.:26:14.

an improvement on 2012? Furthermore as the minister any plans to

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publish the tourism strategy? relation to 2012, I don't in there

:26:19.:26:24.

is any doubt it has been a huge success. Obviously in terms of the

:26:24.:26:31.

official tourism statistics, we won't have the final statistics and

:26:31.:26:38.

tell quarter to of 2013. Of course we have heard of Titanic Belfast

:26:38.:26:43.

welcoming its half-million visitor. A tremendous feat when you think

:26:44.:26:47.

about what some organisations had to say about Titanic Belfast before

:26:47.:26:52.

it actually opened its doors. We all remember what the Audit Office

:26:52.:26:57.

had to say about Titanic Belfast. They were querying if we would

:26:57.:27:01.

reach 400,000 a year and Titanic Belfast has only been open since

:27:01.:27:07.

30th March and they have already welcomed 500,000 visitors.

:27:07.:27:10.

tourism minister. More than happy to share those numbers with her

:27:10.:27:16.

fellow MLAs. Chris Page is with me again. Let us go back to that issue

:27:16.:27:20.

of gay marriage that was debated earlier. Talk us through some of

:27:20.:27:27.

the details over how the voting panned out. The motion was defeated

:27:27.:27:32.

by 50 votes to 55. It was always likely to fail because it was

:27:32.:27:38.

basically impossible to do it without DUP support. Three

:27:38.:27:43.

Unionists voted in favour of allowing same-sex couples to marry.

:27:43.:27:47.

They were all Ulster Unionists, Basil MacRae, Michael Copland and

:27:47.:27:52.

one more. The Alliance Party is in favour of gay marriage but one

:27:52.:27:58.

member voted against it. As Forest the SDLP goes all their MLAs in the

:27:58.:28:05.

chamber voted in favour except Paul McGuinness who abstained. Where

:28:05.:28:10.

does the whole idea and drive that we heard about to change the

:28:10.:28:15.

legislation go from here? Basically there are new plans to bring

:28:15.:28:19.

through legislation as became clear in that debate. The executive

:28:19.:28:22.

parties are divided, the DUP are set against the whole idea of

:28:22.:28:28.

allowing same-sex couples to marry so in the absence of their support,

:28:28.:28:32.

although the issue is very much on the agenda in the chamber, it is

:28:32.:28:36.

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