02/07/2012 Stormont Today

Good evening and welcome to Stormont Today. We've been kicked

out of our usual studio in the bowels of Parliament Buildings and

are coming to you from Broadcasting house. It's nothing personal. Last

week's weather has played havoc with the Stormont facilities.

power to Stormont had been cut off on Wednesday evening as a result of

the problem with the transformer on the estate. Following that, that

power was off on terms to an Friday and the weekend. Also... The Conor

Murphy discrimination row spills over to the chamber. In order to

ensure that the Unionist community believes that in terms of

ministerial appointments, there will be fair play. There will be no

upper limit legislation in this society because the manner up as it

has always been an opposition. return to the Stone Age for a

debate on archaeology. And we consider the Assembly's performance

this year with Professor Rick Wilford from Queen's University.

The heavy rain which brought so much misery last Wednesday also hit

Stormont's facilities. Earlier, I spoke to the clerk and director

general of the Assembly about how it was affected. As you will have

understood from the news, the power had been cut off on Wednesday

evening as a result of a problem with the transform work on the

estate and following that, the power was off on Thursday, Friday

and over the weekend. But staff have been working very hard with in

a e to get the power restored and it was restored last night and we

are operating normally again today but in these situations, we have

got contingency plans and the standby generator cake tin and we

could operate with a limited level of electricity but normal business

was maintained. The committees met as normal and business continued.

Nothing has fallen behind? Indeed not. We have managed through the

plans and good work of everybody to keep business running and B are in

a good place. Just the BBC is affected? You might have your own

problems! Everything has gone extremely well for us. The plans

have worked well and we have worked well particularly with Northern

Ireland Electricity who have worked tirelessly over the weekend to get

things back online. Because of the location, yes, it has been

inconvenient but in terms of the water damage, you have not

suffered? Thankfully, we are at the top of the hill and the water has

gone down below was so the building's lower on the estate have

suffered but everything is drying up here and our feet are drive.

exactly a good way to see out the session, but how has the rest of

the year gone for the Assembly? With me now is Professor Rick

Wilford of Queen's University. Overall, what Mark would you give

them? The plus. B plus. They could do better and the Assembly, it

looks like a scant return to many members of the public and we are

all familiar with the polls that show that the public holds our

ministers in relatively low regard. It is an admission that they need

to up their game. Much of the early part of the year was spent dealing

with private members' business rather than executive business

because there was not any. We had to wait for 12 months for the

programme for government to be approved and the SDLP was supposed

to be for the programme and they voted against in the chamber and

that has had the knock-on effect of slowing down legislation so it

looks that the Assembly chamber has not been particularly busy but the

committees have, producing 20 reports over the past year. They

have been beavering away and scrutinising government and what

little legislation there is but if you think about this in terms of

what has happened in the Assembly building after the rain, it is now

underpowered and people would say the Assembly itself is also

underpowered. He said the committee's have performed well.

Are there any departments or ministers that stand out?

really. I don't think anybody has had a stellar performance, but

there has been steady progress. When you think back, we had this

agreement among parties to allocate the departments so there was a

relatively smooth beginning, not as tricky as the first time around,

but the slowness in getting the programme going, the slowness in

getting the legislative package together. If you remember the early

part of the year, the speaker himself was complaining about the

lack of legislation and on the economy there has been some attempt

to promote growth in Northern Ireland. The issue has been the

imbalance between the private and public sector and a lot of parties

are pinning hopes on the reduction in Corporation Tax but that looks

as though it is flailing in the water and drowning. That will

affect any prospect for the economic minister and Arlene Foster,

who has an opportunity to shine, but she will be hampered as a

consequence. Thank you. More bad news for customers of the Ulster

Bank as it emerged late this afternoon that the problems aren't

going to be solved this week. It is nearly a fortnight since a computer

breakdown left thousands of customers unable to access their

accounts. The First Minister, Peter Robinson, was asked about the

crisis this morning in the Assembly. It is inexplicable to many of us

how it can take so long to resolve this issue. Also, why it takes

longer in Northern Ireland and elsewhere. Meanwhile, people are

being refused easy access and in some cases out of the country,

access at all, to their funds and I do implore the Ulster Bank to put

the necessary resources in place to get this matter finished within

hours rather than further days. Later, the Deputy First Minister

was on his feet taking his last question session today before the

summer break. Given that Martin McGuinness has hardly been out of

the news for the past fortnight, he might be grateful for the rest. So

when he was answering a question on the Commissioner for Public

Appointments, it wasn't long before the topic switched. The current

Commissioner is Mr John Keaney, appointed by the First Minister and

myself and he took up office in 20th August 11. He has the

important role to play in sustaining public confidence in the

appointments process by holding ministers and their departments to

account and he operates independently of government and set

standards for the department's by publishing a code of practice. He

got it's the process to check whether his code of practice has

been followed and he investigates individual complaints and publishes

its findings in an annual report. The commissioner provides an

effective, credible external scrutiny role and that is something

that I am sure everybody welcomes. I thank the Minister. Could he

outlined what further actions his department might be considering

after the finding on behalf of Conor Murphy to guard against

further discrimination on the grounds of religious belief in

public appointments. I am aware that the fair employment tribunal

has found against the Department of Regional Development and a case

involving the appointment of the chair of Northern Ireland Water.

The Department of Regional Development is currently

considering the judgment and I'm sure they will wish to consider all

the options available to them, including an appeal. The judgment

raises a range of serious issues. The implications on public

procedures will be fully considered by all concerned and any changes to

the Commissioner for Public appointments and the code of

practice arising from this case are a matter for the commissioner.

Speaker, the day after that handshake last week, the Deputy

Minister talked about the history of nationalist and a quality. Here

in Northern Ireland. And there for 40 years of his life he was

addressing that inequality. A is the inequality on appointments

recorded last week recorded through Conor Murphy, the change that he

was talking about then? As someone who comes from a community that has

been long discriminated against until these institutions were

formed, it is certainly not in the interests of myself or any body

associated with me to be involved in discriminating against anyone. I

understand that as a result of the ruling last week by the Fair

Employment Tribunal, a number of people associated with it every

decision was taken at the time and they're considering legal advice.

At this stage it is too soon to say what the outcome will be. I would

be very surprised if there isn't a very vigorous challenge to the

decision. The record did not change when John O'Dowd faced education

questions. Here is Gregory Campbell... Dos the Minister

appreciate the difficulty that he has been placed in courtesy of the

outcome of the tribunal last week in terms of his former colleague,

Conor Murphy? Does he appreciate the extent he will have to go to to

ensure that the Unionist committee believes that in terms of

ministerial appointments, there is going to be fair play from the Sinn

Fein minister? The Deputy First Minister outlined in detail were

that case is. Do you want the answer? OK... I will put this to

the member - if the member had his way, there would be no fair

employment tribunals because a member has always been imposed --

opposed to that in legislation and there would be no Equality

Commission because he was opposed to that and there would be no

employment legislation in this society whatsoever because the

member opposite has always been in opposition and has always been in

opposition to any form of equality being in legislation whatsoever.

That is where we would be if the member opposite had his way, so no

member of the public, no member of this assembly or anybody else will

be aware of the appointment process to my department or any other

department but I will assure the member this - I share the views of

the Deputy First Minister and I don't think there is a sector in

bone in Conor Murphy his body. Mr McCartney? -- sectarian bone.

raibh maith agat. Thank you very much. Can I thank the Minister for

his answer. It seems that some members have long memories

stretching back to me 2007 and I wonder if the Minister has any

opinion on the comparative figures under direct rule or under Jim

Allister and perhaps Gregory Campbell's old Stormont regime?

record shows that any attempt to introduce fair employment and

equality legislation in the society has been opposed by the two

gentlemen who have previously questioned me regarding this matter.

It is quite clear that they would be happy to return to a one-party

state which failed not only the Catholic community but the

Protestant community on the island of violent and we haven't place now,

despite the continued opposition, a much more equal society and I can

assure everyone in this house that I am none of my ministerial

colleagues will apply to the rigour of the law. --. Aghadrum, Bannagh

Beg, Ballysooragh. All townlands in County Fermanagh. And residents of

that county are appealing to the Environment Minister to protect

townland names. A petition of 6,000 signatures was presented to the

Townlands in a tractor and green Norman tie-ins. They were there

before parishes and counties came into existence. The first instance

can be found before the 12th century, but it was believed many

where in existence for at more than a thousand years. They're not

against changed but the what a robust system which incorporates

postcodes, house numbers and effective postal delivery.

Ministers will be making a historical decision. After

thousands of years, he can legitimise of Fermat townlands as a

legal address. How the law deals with young people

is a sensitive subject and one which has seen angry exchanges in

the chamber. The justice minister David Ford is backing the findings

of a report which has called for, among other things, changes to the

age of criminal responsibility. But the issue is a red rag to the bull

that is the justice committee chair. I can't recall when this was

initially announced, you Lamb bustard quite a few people are

about the age of criminal responsibility, those people were

deflecting away from a lot of other issues which people would say was

more important. Yet, it is still in this document and I think it is

clear in their DUP position on this matter. Why continue to push this

agenda which will, in my view, detract from a lot of the other

recommendations which people are willing to engage with? The issue

around that is how we handle recommendations from the review

which were overwhelmingly supported by those who responded. It is

almost like the first. You raised about the age limit - most people

winter woodlands rather than high Bank. We have in reality their tiny

number of offenders end that the 10 plus age group been tell -- being

dealt with by methods other than criminal sanctions. Should we say

it they should be enshrined as a statutory arrangement? I see the

benefit of statute recognising that we are not by a large applying the

full criminal sanctions to very young offenders. We deal with them

through care. All of the criminal justice agencies are extremely

reluctant, to give someone a criminal record below age of 18,

therefore why increase this age limits. In the face of growing the

young people who feel they are immune from the potential

prosecution that can come, you remove that threat and I asked

myself or where we going when we have some young people who have no

fear or at all of the criminal justice system. In your view, this

may be a view of as being progressive as a society and

recognising the rights of children and all of that, whenever I think

for a lot of people, they think we have moved too far with a hands-off

approach and young people do not respect the laws. The vast majority

do but there is a big number who do not and people think society have

gone too far to trying to beat what she would characterise as a

progressive society and that is why we should make this change. -- to

be what you would describe. We are talking about a recommendation to

increase the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to

12. We can agree there is a big difference between 10 and 11-year-

old and 16 year olds. You mention the surveys earlier, did the floods

in some way show up the cracks in the system? I think it probably

dent because most people are crying out and one's heart goes out to the

people who have been suffering. The Executive could announce an major

infrastructure project to tackle the source of the problem rather

than offer people �1,000 each as a salve and sticking plaster. That

represents the tough financial Executive -- tub financial

constraints the Executive exercises under. Do you see a point in the

future, Sinn Fein are calling for greater fiscal powers, do you see a

point in the future where we will have some other way of raising

revenue? I think so. The obvious issue is the introduction of water

charging. There are ways of doing it which her sensitive to

relatively deprived circumstances. In terms of greater fiscal autonomy

for Northern Ireland, last week has seen that take a step backwards

over the issue of corporation tax. All political parties agreed but it

has been bounced back to the Treasury and the Treasury shows no

appetite to devolve that to Northern Ireland.

The early years strategy for children aged up to six came back

to the chamber this afternoon having been discussed by the

education committee. But there was some bad behaviour by two members

who should have known better. Here's the minister John O'Dowd.

Enough time has been spent debating the issues, the time has come to

decide the strategic approach. It is vital we continue to build on

the positive actions we are undertaking. In May announced

additional funding of the 13 million for early years service.

This will expand services to 25 % most disadvantaged awards in the

north. It will increase in the availability of pre-school places

and close the gap in funding. This will mean that my department's

investments in early years service it is 84 million which compares

with 73 million when the strategy was launched. How does the Minister

propose to measure the success of his strategy, will there be

specific targets at varying stages or will we have to wait until a

child reaches the end of their education to find how successful it

has been? I suppose the ultimate test of how successful the strategy

will be when the child reaches young adult to it. We are involved

in many programmes currently which may take 10 to 15 years to know the

outcome. We are working on an evidence based programme which I

believe this fast. My feeling at the moment is we get the strategy

and I will build in measures and out comes within that and report

back to the Assembly. Let us get the strategy down on paper and move

on with fat. I refer to the Minister's statement and it would

appear that we are now here in response to the consultations two

years on. Does the Minister agree this is shambolic and appalling,

was the a strategy to begin meths? How did he and his predecessor get

this strategy so wrong up in the first place? Can he could so meet

on the bones of the action plan? waited the response of the SDLP in

the coming months. No doubt they have a strategy sitting waiting to

be wheeled out into the public domain. Listen to their member's

answer, they know how it should be done so I will listen to the SDLP.

Order please. Could I ask people to address their marks through the

chair. I was studying their early years strategy and will use those

elements which are workable. Historical artefacts were under

discussion after it emerged that nearly one and a half million of

them have not been passed onto local museums by the commercial

companies that have found them. The Northern Ireland Archaeology Forum

is pushing for more joined up thinking between the departments of

culture and environment. This debate for archaeologists and for

their heritage sector in Northern Ireland is massive. We believe they

are currently about 1.7 million artifacts held in private companies

across Northern Ireland. This is the fruit of results of well over

thousands of licence are Kiddish -- excavations. The material is all

that is left of the sites being excavated before those sites which

have planning permission. The problem we have is there is no easy

manoeuvre for this material to leave those country -- those

companies who extracted things and put them into at museum or another

accredited body. How interesting are some of these artefacts?

the artefacts are interesting weather Ritter's stone things from

a prehistoric past, right through to material from industrial

heritage sites. It can range from pieces of pottery right through to

the objects that we see in museum collections in boxes, you will find

objects of gold or occasionally, high-status items. This material

reflects the everyday objects that people had write a throughout her

cultural past. Who would benefit from seeing it? I think the public

would benefit from seeing it. There is a lust opportunity here. If we

estimate the size of the Op material that is out there,

researchers would have fantastic benefit from having access to this,

helping us discover more about our cultural past. Put it into

perspective for us about the quantities involved. The know that

in 2007, the National Museums estimated that there are probably

around 320,000 artifacts or objects classified as archaeological. If we

look today at how much material is sitting in company hands, as a

result of development led excavations, that is four times the

amount of material which is currently held in museum

collections. What would you like to see the ministers do? We would like

them to be able to see whose responsibility this is to solve the

problem. It is not a problem which can be sold by one department on my.

The Minister for the Environment, they have the responsibility for

protection of the monuments. Where they give licence permission to do

excavations, then of course when the material is out of the ground,

this is where the gap seems to happen. Museums would ideally be

the repository. But at the moment there is nothing in a legislative

framework which allows that framework to pass to them.

Evicted from Stormont, our political team have spent the day

like fish out of water here at Broadcasting house. I managed to

pin down Gareth Gordon, who's definitely not in Kansas anymore.

For reasons which have already been explained, we are doing Stormont

sedate in Broadcasting House. We're not at Stormont but we have not

missed a second of the action. there was plenty of action to watch

today. When approaching the end of term, any means winding down. At

Stormont it is the opposite. There has not been enough business for a

MLAs to do in the last few weeks. There had been a lot of early

finishes. This week it is completely the opposite. A lot of

end of term cramming going on. Lots of the sense been tied up. A very

long day today with lots of ministerial statements. Tomorrow

looks like being even longer. No lunch break. We have our fair share

of bizarre events that parliament buildings and we had won today.

That's right. Stormont had a visit from one of the most successful

Irish teams of recent times. That is the team which represented

Ireland in the Cup stacking competition. It is a recognised

sport. The committee invited the team to Stormont and we had an

exhibition of Cup stacking. Some committee members even had a go.

They should have left it to the professionals. The Irish team

amassed 32 medals. Wreck looking ahead to the next session. One of

their it big thing it is reducing the size of Stormont, you have had

you say, what do you think you will do for the Assembly? They have got

to seize the nettle on this one. They have to reduce to a least 96,

given that there will be 16 constituencies. I think they should

go further and reduced to 80. One thing I had been concerned about is

the fact that the members of the committee had been looking at this

issue and they had been party animals rather than committee

creatures because they have deferred to their respective party

leaders to make the decisions on both issues. That is a failure of