03/11/2015 Stormont Today


03/11/2015

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It was 2008 when pupils here last sat the 11-plus transfer test,

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but seven years on the politicians still seem no closer to agreeing

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And clashes in the chamber between Sinn Fein

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Seven years since the 11-plus was scrapped, there's still no consensus

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Those schools who decide to follow down the path of academic selection

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decide to use dodgy dossiers. There is no educational reason for doing

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it. With a protest against arts cuts at

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Stormont, the Minister responsible I'll certainly be a champion for the

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arts. I will argue for additional money to the arts and I look forward

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to parties are bought on that argument.

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And joining me to share his thoughts on today's developments

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is Professor Rick Wilford from Queen's University.

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The 11-plus was scrapped in 2008, but fast-forward seven years

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and academic selection and transfer tests are still in existence.

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Today our politicians once again clashed

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over how to move the system on from its current unregulated state.

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It seems to me the transfer test has become the elephant in the room. It

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is a difficult issue but ignoring it will not make it go away. The only

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conclusion I can come to after the restoration of devolution in 2007 at

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some point, Sinn Fein and the DUP came to a truce on this issue. Since

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then can say they have abolished the 11 plus that the DUP can say they

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have salvaged through the root of the unofficial test. It is wrong to

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portray the current system of the unregulated test as some form of

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disaster out there. We were told whenever this party help negotiate

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the right for academic selection to be put in legislation in 2007, we

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were told by the education minister a system that was not regulated

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would be a disaster, it would be overwhelmed with challenges. The

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whole system would collapse quickly. But it has been indicated that tens

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of thousands of pupils have gone through these test. We have to

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change the regulator transfer test system. The current system including

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private test fees but additional pressure on children and families

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from socially deprived backgrounds. Children have two sets of two or

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more tests. This also affect our primary schools. This does become a

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wee note that parents when considering which primary schools

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and send their children to look to see if two singers provided for the

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local school transfer test. Our debate on education and as the same

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debate. We always come back to this issue. I don't know what the

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solution is. In terms of the motion, the call on the Minister to convene

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talks with all the major stakeholders to build a consensus

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you can see how much consensus that is here today. It doesn't exist. We

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have two sides of this argument that are poles apart. Every Bully Boy

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tactic is used by the Department to threaten the primary schools to dare

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to do with their parents would expect, namely to prepare their

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children for the next step in their educational journey. If that step

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includes undertaking a Kiwi test or something else, the full weight of

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threat and authority from the Department is brought down on behalf

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of its of the schools to how dare they try to do with the parents

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would expect. To equip their children, to make the transition

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from primary to grammar or secondary school. Why do need to separate

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those children? At age 11 or age 14 and send them to a different school.

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Why do you need to separate them? Because all the other national

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evidence shows this. We can ignore it. You could ignore the part of

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education in this matter and that is OK. But there is a lengthy list of

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bodies that point to the fact educational election doesn't work.

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It has a detrimental impact on the education system.

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And it was no surprise that academic selection came up again

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during today's questions to the Education Minister.

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John O'Dowd was also asked about how schools meet the needs

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It is my believe the transfer process would be much better if the

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schools followed the Department guys. They should project it into

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school. I thank the Minister for his answer.

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Minister, would you not agree that what you have done is effectively

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privatised transfer system? Know, those Board of Governors who make a

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conscious decision every year. Every year a Board of Governors meeting

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meet to discuss the criteria. Every Board of Governors assistant and

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decides not to use academic selection follows a pathway which

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does not reject any child. Those schools who decide at a Board of

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Governors meeting to follow down the pathway of academic selection decide

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to use dodgy dossiers. There is no educational reason for doing it.

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There is a social reason for doing it and it it is for social

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selection, they should say so. I find it unacceptable the Minister

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uses such a statement as dodgy dossiers. In relation to the

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selection procedure. Does the Minister agree that in the main, the

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system works extremely well because we don't have educational

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authorities or boards involved in it? The fact they are kept out of it

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the system works well. Protestant and Catholic parents are happy with

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it in the main. The member stands in an elected Assembly, as an elected

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representative who is charged with holding public funds to account and

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makes the statement that the system works better because the Education

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Authority 's and bought a keep out of it. That is probably one of the

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most undemocratic statements I have ever heard in this chamber. What is

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the purpose of this chamber? Was is the purpose of elected

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representatives? What is the purpose of the ballot box if we do not elect

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politicians to govern our society? Following on from a written response

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received last week on the meeting the needs of transgender students

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with regards to uniforms, changing rooms and toilet facilities, whether

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he agrees guidance for schools should be accepted? I want to send

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out in form guidance and I have commissioned a survey across our

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schools to ensure that a meeting the needs of LGB young people within our

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schools. A survey has been commissioned and will be distributed

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and information brought back to me. Our post-primary transfer system is

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a bit of a mess, really, isn't it? This is the 75 time we had a vote on

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the issue. It is the fifth time yesterday we had a discussion on

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same-sex marriage. We are in a situation where there is no

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alternative. Now we have the kids who last weekend were celebrating

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hijinks and looking forward to a weekend of high anxiety with their

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first round of tests. Some of them will be sitting to round of tests.

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There is no consensus on this issue. Unlike yesterday's debate, John

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O'Dowd has the weight of evidence on his side of the argument. This was

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about conscious and opinion. In terms of whether they should or

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shouldn't be academic selection, some kind of 11 plus, the weight of

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evidence clearly is we should abandon it and go for a free

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integrated system. Maybe streaming and differentiation shown within

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schools but not at the point of ten, 11 determining their immediate

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academic career. Others take a different view from the one you have

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articulated. Both sides politically seem as far apart on this issue as

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ever. There is no agreement. Perhaps post the next election in May we

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might get a new education minister from a different part of the House

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who takes a different view. I cannot ever seen a particular meeting of

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minds on this issue. Some people are so entrenched in the belief of

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academic selection is a good discipline for children that it can

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differentiate among these skills. Others believe that if we are going

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to have some form of selection it should come later, if at all. What

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matters is educating the whole term. I do think, I am up product of

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grammar school. I can remember vividly being told the result of our

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11 plus on a day trip to London from South Wales to go to see the Queen.

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The headmistress went up and the train telling us whether we have

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passed or failed. For those children who were told they had failed it

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ruined the day. It is a cruel system. I think it is something that

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it's time is up and we should focus on a more integrated, holistic,

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focus system of education. Is be interesting to see if the

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politicians can move in that direction any time soon. We will

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talk to you later in the programme. Outside the Chamber today,

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several hundred artists, musicians, writers and actors protested

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against cuts in the arts budget, and that was because the

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Arts Minister was answering Not surprisingly,

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the same topic was top of the agenda, and Caral Ni Chuilin

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was repeatedly asked about what she's doing to help organisations

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struggling with reduced funding. The Minister be aware of the

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spirited protest outside the Assembly today. Perhaps that spirit

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belies the deep anger that is felt by those protesters and many of them

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and in the chamber here this afternoon. They express themselves

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alarmed and disturbed at the courts resulting as it has in loss of

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employment, insecurity and taking away from vital programmes that are

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instrumental within the community. Whether Minister reaffirm her

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commitment to the arts and reaffirm she will restore those monies to the

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Arts Council? First of all, I was going to see

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people are here, the artists are here in the chamber. It is good to

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see given some of the badges, there is cross-party support for the arts.

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It is good to see there is pressure being brought to bear on how

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important the arts is. I can't give a guarantee and will not give a

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guarantee because I think it is a plus that I will be able to restore

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the budget that I definitely want to do in absence of any security. Not

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only from our side finances security we need as an Executive in terms of

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monies that we have had taken from us in July 2011. It is earmarked for

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more of the same from July this year. I will be a champion for the

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arts, I will argue for additional money for the arts and I would look

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forward to party support. I asked the minister how she can

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justify imposing media cut on funding that has been committed to

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arts organisations and then siphoning off the money to projects

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with no application process and no transparency. Is that good

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practice? I think you have a brass neck giving your history around red

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sky and others. You have an absolute brass neck. First of all,

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transparency. I didn't meet anybody in rooms and conjure up Eddie deals.

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The whole process was done in an open, transparent way, with a

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business case, and it wasn't siphoning off. All other ale bes

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were consulted. In light of Ulster Park stadium not being suitable, and

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is though not a possibility of the savings being passed to other arts

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areas? Bearing in mind that one is a programme and one is a resource, I

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hope the member is in suggestion that Ravenhill can be redeveloped

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and then money for the games be given away, because that is not

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going to happen. Certainly not on my watch. I fully support the need for

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additional money in the arts sector, and I will argue for that, but I

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don't think anybody from that sector or anywhere would even hint suggest

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that money should be taken from the games to be given to somewhere else.

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Away from Stormont, the big news of the day was

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the announcement that the Michelin factory in Ballymena is to close

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That triggered an urgent question in the Assembly this afternoon,

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when the Enterprise Minister, Jonathan Bell, was asked

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The recent announcement is due to overcapacity in truck tyres and a

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substantial increase in import from the Far East particularly China.

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Invest Northern Ireland has been in regular contact with senior Michelin

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personnel, and was engaged in ongoing discussions related to

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further investments. So clearly, therefore, today's announcement,

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Deputy Speaker, is extremely disappointing. I can say my

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department and Invest Northern Ireland can fully understand the

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decision to close the plant, we appreciate the company's commitment

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to supporting its employees to find alternative employment with its ?5

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million development fund. This has been a catastrophic blow over

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Ballymena on the back of the equally devastating loss of TATA, and what

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my constituents want to know is did this Department, the executive and

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Invest NI do all they could have done? Our responsibility now is to

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see what we can do in terms of creating real employment and

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training opportunities. I have just finished a very detailed meeting

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with the Minister for employment and learning, as to what we can do

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regarding putting the colleges to work alongside, to ensure people

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that need accreditation for skills that they already possess that they

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can have that, to see what the Social Security agency and all the

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relevant agencies can do, and working alongside the minister, we

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will put together individual programmes, and we will put together

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group programmes. Can I ask the Minister, does he recognise now that

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there is a crisis in manufacturing? If you don't listen to anything is

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that I say, the thing that will transform and game change heavy

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manufacturing in Northern Ireland is a reduction in our corporation tax.

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I know the parties are working very hard, and I hope to see a positive

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response with a date and a rate set to reduce corporation tax.

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The passing of Private Members' legislation is relatively rare,

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but it looks as if the Green Party's Steven Agnew could see

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his Bill the third to become law so far in this mandate.

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The Children's Services Co-operation Bill, which calls for greater

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joined-up working between Government departments, passed its final stage.

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The Ulster Unionist leader, Mike Nesbitt, explained why he

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It is about social housing for people, health services the people,

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delivering horizontally through all the various layers and Department of

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Government to offer a holistic and individual package that meets their

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needs. I am looking forward to the report on the operations and the

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results of this in less than two years, and I'm looking forward to

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seeing how we can learn and improve on that. I think we have all been

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frustrated at one point with the silent mentality of Government, and

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we hope that this bill will change mindsets in that regard. I would

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like to see the roll-out of this collaborative approach to other

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areas such as economic growth. This lobby measured in practice, and

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given that the paint is not yet dry in terms of the content of the

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bill, but given that there is a body of officials who have been working

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at this, and have been thinking about this, and have been working

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with ministers in relation to all of this, can the junior minister

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indicate if there isn't now some further thinking about how this will

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be mainstream into the life of Government? I would also welcome the

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presence of the junior ministers to respond to this stage of the bill

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here today, and congratulate Emma Pengelly on her appointment to

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junior minister in the office of first and Deputy first Minister. I'm

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glad I have the opportunity of knowing Emma E.ON the assembly and

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have a good working relationship with her. She has received scrutiny

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further to her appointment which at times I think has spilled over into

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unfair and inappropriate criticism. Identifying we really want there to

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have to be a statutory duty the people to cooperate, and I suppose

:20:39.:20:41.

that is what I am tried to get at. A statutory duty is a last resort, and

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what we would want is for agencies and Departments to want to work

:20:49.:20:52.

together to reach better agreements for our young people. I think that

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the work that we have carried on in the office of first and Deputy first

:20:58.:21:01.

Minister, we do see that change starting to come across the

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agencies, and I think it is a change of culture as opposed to one of

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statute, so while I welcome this bill, I think it is a useful

:21:10.:21:13.

contribution, we will continue to work our hardest to ensure there is

:21:14.:21:17.

a willingness at all levels to cooperate and collaborate fully on

:21:18.:21:22.

these types of important issues. Often we will talk about vulnerable

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children, and let me be clear, this is about all children, but it is to

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ensure that there are no gap through which vulnerable children can fall,

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because when we provide the net for all, we catch all, including

:21:35.:21:40.

vulnerable children, and it ensures that those who need the support get

:21:41.:21:44.

it, because often we spend too much time trying to identify who the

:21:45.:21:47.

vulnerable are, and not enough time in providing the services.

:21:48.:21:49.

The Justice Minister brought a statement to the House this morning.

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It was supposed to be about helping people access

:21:53.:21:55.

the justice system, but David Ford found himself primarily answering

:21:56.:21:57.

The overall purpose of the review was threefold. First identify and

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prioritise those services publicly funded with advice, and reputation

:22:12.:22:15.

should be provided, in order to meet human rights obligations, safeguard

:22:16.:22:19.

the interests of vulnerable people and meet the wider public interest.

:22:20.:22:23.

Second, to consider the delivery models that might be best suited to

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the provision of publicly funded legal services through mechanisms

:22:26.:22:31.

other than legal aid. Third, to consider whether there are aspects

:22:32.:22:35.

of the justice system where if fish is might contribute towards reducing

:22:36.:22:39.

the cost of publicly funded legal services while sustaining the

:22:40.:22:44.

quality of service provision. I have now received a very comprehensive

:22:45.:22:46.

and detailed report. Today I am pleased to publish the report, and

:22:47.:22:52.

to begin a period of public consultation on the findings. Does

:22:53.:22:55.

the Minister accept that there has been a failure to set realistic

:22:56.:23:05.

legal aid budgets, and can I ask the Minister what he intends to do to

:23:06.:23:08.

rectify this situation prior to the setting of the 2016 /17 budget.

:23:09.:23:17.

Mr Speaker, it is quite clear as Mr Douglas says that the cost of legal

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aid has remained stubbornly high, and has not significantly changed

:23:25.:23:27.

over the five years since devolution. I could say what would

:23:28.:23:31.

have happened if we hadn't implemented some of the reforms, and

:23:32.:23:35.

indeed some of the criminal reforms we went through in an early stage,

:23:36.:23:41.

and we have been looking at a further ?20 million or more on legal

:23:42.:23:44.

aid costs at the same time. The reality is we had the budget that we

:23:45.:23:47.

had when justice was devolved, and we have sought to work with that

:23:48.:23:51.

given all the other pressures across the justice system, and my officials

:23:52.:23:56.

who I shall be having a discussion with later today are looking towards

:23:57.:23:59.

the budgeting process for next year, and they are looking at the balance

:24:00.:24:03.

of the jet between different aspect of the justice system. Clearly the

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figures which applied on the basis of the budget and the application of

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cuts by the executive are inadequate to meet the current legal aid costs,

:24:14.:24:16.

but nor can it be the case that legal aid can be protected for ever

:24:17.:24:20.

when other aspects of the justice system are seeing their budgets go

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down. He did ask the reviewer to consider models to deliver publicly

:24:27.:24:29.

funded legal services through mechanisms other than legal aid.

:24:30.:24:35.

What mechanisms of that nature have been recommended? And is he still

:24:36.:24:41.

flirting with the idea of a public defender office? We need to look as

:24:42.:24:47.

I have highlighted and as the report highlights at a range of alternative

:24:48.:24:50.

dispute resolution, but I'm not quite sure that I was flirting with

:24:51.:25:03.

the public to defender system. The report recommends and I maintain

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that we should keep the current system. But adjacent jurisdictions

:25:06.:25:15.

have looked at least in part at managing the costs that may make

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that a necessary way in which this jurisdiction might have to look at

:25:19.:25:19.

some point in the future. Yesterday's debate into same-sex

:25:20.:25:22.

marriage saw the use of Petitions Today, Stewart Dickson of Alliance

:25:23.:25:25.

questioned the Speaker on the rules following some

:25:26.:25:29.

speculation that petitions are being signed in advance by MLAs

:25:30.:25:31.

before a topic is even tabled. Mr Speaker, you will be aware in me

:25:32.:25:54.

Saint -- recent days that there have been accusations of Tippex being

:25:55.:26:01.

used on these forms, the clear influence that individual members

:26:02.:26:03.

are not using their own personal discretion when it comes to

:26:04.:26:09.

completing such forms. May I ask you to investigate both the efficacy of

:26:10.:26:12.

doing that and whether or not it makes the appropriate standing

:26:13.:26:18.

orders. In fact, I was aware of this situation, and standing orders and

:26:19.:26:25.

procedure is very clear. We have to be satisfied at the speakers office

:26:26.:26:29.

that the signatures are genuine. But the petition are concerned requires

:26:30.:26:38.

the issue. That is as far as my ability to take this forward. The

:26:39.:26:46.

Tippex on the sheet is nothing I can do anything about as long as the

:26:47.:26:51.

signature is visible and is genuine. Mr Speaker, you say that you have

:26:52.:26:55.

looked at the signatures. Have you found any discrepancies or any

:26:56.:27:01.

reason for you not to accept it them as genuine and authentic signatures

:27:02.:27:08.

on the petitions? I understand why you are asking the question, but

:27:09.:27:12.

clearly if I announced it was a valid petition of concern, it was

:27:13.:27:14.

valid. The Speaker, Mitchel McLaughlin,

:27:15.:27:16.

responding to enquiries from And Professor Rick Wilford is with

:27:17.:27:18.

me again for a final few thoughts. Petitions of Concern again

:27:19.:27:22.

attracting attention. It's proving very divisive between

:27:23.:27:23.

the DUP and the other parties. Yes, although it is a case of pots

:27:24.:27:33.

calling kettles black, because they have both made use or misuse of

:27:34.:27:41.

them. This has become, the risk is if you give politicians a tool, they

:27:42.:27:47.

will miss use it. We are seeing that in spades with the Petitions of

:27:48.:27:52.

Concern. It is certainly not being used for the purpose for which it

:27:53.:27:58.

was originally intended. And now it is, here is one I made earlier, all

:27:59.:28:03.

you have to do is sign it, and it makes a complete mockery of that.

:28:04.:28:08.

And the final one, Ukip has confirmed today that Councillor

:28:09.:28:12.

Henry Reilly has been expelled from the party. What's the political

:28:13.:28:17.

fallout from that likely to be? And minimal, a small splash. He may run

:28:18.:28:27.

as an independent at the next local council elections, or indeed for the

:28:28.:28:32.

assembly next May. The likelihood I think is that he will become

:28:33.:28:35.

independent because he does have a basis of support in his area, and

:28:36.:28:40.

that is where his real strength is. I think he will end up as a

:28:41.:28:43.

politically marginalised figure. Just before we go tonight,

:28:44.:28:45.

we inadvertently captioned David McNarry as a member of NI21

:28:46.:28:47.

last night. Join me for The View on Thursday

:28:48.:28:49.

night at 10.35 on BBC One. There's an extra special line-up

:28:50.:28:55.

on Nolan Live this week. We'll be linking up with

:28:56.:29:12.

RTE to bring you debates And revealing the results

:29:13.:29:14.

of our cross-border survey on a range of political

:29:15.:29:19.

and social issues. Join me in Belfast. Join me,

:29:20.:29:21.

Miriam O'Callaghan, in Dublin. That's tonight after

:29:22.:29:24.

the news on BBC One. The knives are sharpened and the heat

:29:25.:29:34.

is on. It can only mean one thing. Britain's best chefs

:29:35.:29:38.

are back in town. They're here because they want

:29:39.:29:43.

this title. I'm really excited. MasterChef: The Professionals

:29:44.:29:48.

starts cooking...

:29:49.:29:52.

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