03/12/2012 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. On the programme tonight:

After MLAs were told off by the First and Deputy First Ministers

for not being in the hamber last week, today it was the turn of the

Speaker to do the scolding. He's written to every MLA warning that

he'll re-introduce sanctions if the conduct continues. But in the

chamber he was in a more forgiving One member who was definitely in

his seat for questions was the leader of the Ulster Unionists who

wasn't happy that the First and Deputy First Ministers will be

The first thing on the agenda wasn't quite the norm for a Monday

afternoon. The recent conduct of MLAs was very much on the Speaker's

mind specifically their attendance or in too many cases their

nonattendance in the chamber. Our political editor was watching.

Remind us of the background to this. This all relates to events last

week in the chamber. It was during questions to the First Minister,

Peter Robinson. Five MLAs were not present and two questions were

withdrawn. It was probably the quietest Question Time in recent

weeks. It annoyed the First and Deputy First Minister, the fact so

many questions weren't asked. Martin McGuinness described the

lack of attendance including one of his own MLAs as a disgrace. He

wanted the Speaker to look into this. Today Willie Hay made his

feelings clear. Members not being in their places at Question Time,

and let me say the unacceptable member of questions that are being

withdrawn - this was an issue that Written to every member about these

issues and my letter is clear about what I expect. I will also be

raising the issue once again at the Business Committee, reminding the

whips of what their responsibility is, and in my letter as well, I

have made it absolutely clear I am not responsible for ensuring that

members are in the chamber. That is clearly a responsibility for

parties themselves and parties alone. So why do remind the whole

house and all sides of the house where the responsibility lies. I

hope that all parties will make every effort to avoid a repeat of

the situation last week. It is for all members and ministers to uphold

the rules and conventions if -- of this house. I will be monitoring

the situation and I will not hesitate to reintroduce sanctions

on members who are not in their place when it comes to Question

Time. I hope that is clear and let us move on. I was one of those

attending members who did not turn up for Question Time. I apologise.

I was chairing a committee and I was detained - fact and I was

detained there. I appreciate the member's apology. We do sometimes

have confessions were members come forward and confess their sins. But

let it be a reminder for the whole house that Question Time is an

important piece of business of this house. Some members will see it as

the most important business in this house. Mr Speaker, will you do any

more analysis of the number of questions that were withdrawn and

the number of members who were not in a position and break it down by

party? Let me say, from time to time, all parties are to blame.

Although I have to say, there are some worse than others. my office

and the Business Office will be monitoring which members are absent

at Question Time. The reading of my letter is clear. We had members who

came up to the table to withdraw questions and then leave the

chamber. Some members have actually questioned the withdrawal of their

questions and then they leave the chamber. It cannot go one. The

situation will be monitored and we will find who are the culprits.

heard Speaker mention the letter he had sent. You manage to get hold of

a copy. What does it say? It is a strong rebuke and concentrates on

the attendance of the MLAs. He talks about what he expects a from

Assembly members. Here were the main points. He says attendance at

Question Time should be given priority, and he made that clear.

Questions can only be withdrawn before noon on the day of questions,

not during proceedings. He say he may be introduced sanctions, and

this is something some MLAs were asking about. So the whole issue of

sanctions is interesting. He says he may we introduce sanctions if

people do not turn up. Previously, people have been barred from asking

questions for two weeks. That is quite tough. Absolutely. MLAs want

to be seen asking questions and holding ministers to account. We

know MLAs wants a more spontaneity in the chamber, but the proceedings

are being looked at. It does not have the cut and thrust of

Westminster. It doesn't and people are saying it is dull and formulaic.

Some of these issues are being looked out, but Willie Hay is very

clear on this. Storm at -- Stormont is a political institution and he

hopes that members can show each other respect and avoid bringing

the Assembly into disrepute. Thank you. Now, or you can drink alcohol

promotions will be banned from January. Nelson McCausland said the

impact of binge drinking on health is out of control. During the

passage of the 2011 Amendment Bill, a commencement was given that the

detail of regulations to tackle irresponsible drink promotions will

be questioned. A public consultation ran for eight weeks on

proposed regulations to ban irresponsible drinks promotions.

The focus is on two promotions - all the country and for �20, as in

a fixed price promotion and also the pricing of certain drinks. The

Social Development Committee expressed doubt that a ban on bulk

purchases would have the desired effect. Having considered the

result of the consultation, and that the use of the Social

Development Committee, I have decided to proceed with the

introduction of the regulation to ban a fixed price promotion, such

as the all you can drink for �20. A weather, -- however, bulk purchases

will not be banned at this time. The ban on fixed price promotions

will make this sort of drinking illegal for the first time. That

regulation will become effective on the 1st January 1920 13 and

therefore I beg to move. committee are mindful of the impact

this is having in terms of been shrinking. We do understand the

implications for the health of the individuals themselves. On that

basis, the committee supports this regulation. After an eventful

Question Time with Peter Robinson last week, it was the turn of

Martin McGuinness to take to be Despatch Box. Here is the Deputy

First Minister Updating the Assembly on the outcome on the

recent visit to China and Hong Kong. It is hugely important that we

build on the contacts that are there. There are opportunities

opening up. There is something like I think that's something that can

be clearly built upon, and there will be a huge responsibility on

the Derry department to seize every opportunity that comes their way. I

thank the Deputy First Minister. I note in his original answer he told

the meeting diplomats and business people, but no word of politicians.

Given the Chinese party Congress coincided with your trip, do you

accept you didn't get within 1200 kilometres of anybody of any real

political significance? It's obvious from that question that the

view of the Deputy Mayor of Larne that the Ulster Unionist party is

in tatters is clearly an indicator of the ignorance of the question

that's been asked. The reality is the trade mission to China was

organised well before the Chinese Communist Party convention was held.

At that stage the First Minister and I agreed we would lead the

delegation and be part of it. It wasn't our fault the Chinese

Communist Party decided to change the date for their event. They did.

The advice we received from diplomats on both the British and

Irish side was that the First Minister and I should still go. I

think the opportunities that presents for us in the future are

unlimited. I think it's a very small minded question that's been

asked by the leader of a party that is now much smaller than it was

before. I am very pleased the Deputy Minister's gone to visit my

homeland. I hope he enjoyed the trip over there. You're right.

We've done well in establishing links with China in terms of our

two university, but they have worked very hard to do that, but I

think one thing perhaps we haven't done enough is developing tourism.

I have a number of travel agents who have talked to me from the Far

East to say about the potential for developing tourism. Titanic is very

big in China because of the movie and various issues, so can I ask

the Minister have we any solid plan in developing tourism between China

and Northern Ireland? There was a talk about flights from Belfast to

Beijing and I wonder if there is any solid plan on that. I want to

thank the member for her question. We took great pride when we were

there in being able to tell the Chinese people that we were very

proud of the fact that there was a woman from China in our Assembly,

and I think they were quite surprised at that, but it was a

real opportunity for us to outline the way in which politics here has

moved forward in a progressive way. The joint Ministerial working group

met for the last time on October 18th. The work of this group is

complete, and the report of the main findings was sent to the Prime

Minister for his consideration on the 16th of November. The British

Government must now decide whether the executive should be offered the

opportunity of taking responsibility for the tax. The

continued challenges faced by the business community as the economy

struggles out of recession means that it is essential that the

Government makes its decision as soon as possible. At our meeting

with the Prime Minister during his visit on the 20th of November, 2012

we discussed issues impacting on our local economy including the

general implication of devolving corporation tax. The Prime Minister

needs to consider further, so we agreed we would have a further

meeting in London where we can make our case, and we wrote to the Prime

Minister on the 29th of November to ask for this meeting as soon as

possible. We were hoping this decision can be made quickly in

order to alay speculation and unease within our local business

community and have asked for this request to be given urgent

consideration. I think that we're all very conscious and our own

Finance Minister referred to this during the course of the weekend -

that the situation in Scotland is something that can be either an

advantage to us or a disadvantage. The person who has to decide which

way that goes is obviously David Cameron. I think it's hugely

important that he recognises that we have a special case, and indeed,

David Gok from the Treasury whenever he came to Stormont to

meet with the First Minister and myself and our Finance Minister and

Derry Minister clearly acknowledged that the dissthrantion we face in

regard to the border and the 12.5% corporation tax in the south is

something that needs to be recognised and dealt with. So we

hope that whenever a decision is made that the decision will be

favourable. We're up for the challenge, but as I - as I've said,

it's now in the hands of the British Prime Minister at Ten

Downing Street - it's up to him to decide, and I hope he decides in

our favour. The Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness. The

potential cost of delays to the welfare reform bill was raised

again during questions to Nelson McCausland. An ad hoc committee has

been set up to examine the implications of the bill. Today he

revealed that the Westminster Government has suspended talks on

possible operational exemptions for Northern Ireland until the

committee completes its work. member will be aware from my

statement to the Assembly on the 22nd of October that I've already

secured the deferal of the introduction of universal credit in

Northern Ireland to April 2014, and flexible payment arrangements when

the system does go live. However, from my discussions this week, Lord

Freud has advised that he has put on hold any further discussions on

flexibilities until after the ad hoc committee finishes its work.

The ad hoc committee not only has the potential therefore to cost the

Northern Ireland budget, but has now also impacted my discussions

with WWP Ministers on a range of issues in relation to the welfare

reform bill, and I would also add at a time we're seeking to ensure

jobs in Northern Ireland, delivering welfare payments are

actually retained in Northern Ireland, it's not the best time to

start having a fallout with the Government - the coalition

Government at Westminster. I do feel it rather is an inappropriate

interference, Lord Freud, in the I'm looking at the moment, although

it has, as I have already indicated, been hindered and halted - whether

the member wants to remain in a state of denial about the truth or

not is another matter, but the fact is that it has been put on hold. It

has been halted, and slafs made absolutely clear to members of the

Social Development Minister -- committee and members of the

Subcommittee on Welfare reform. That was made absolutely clear by

Lord Freud on his visit last week. I'd hoped that the visit was more

productive. It was productive, useful, but it could have been even

more productive, but for the difficulty that we faced. As far as

I'm concerned, conversations with - and negotiations with Westminster

about this are actually better done face to face rather than in the

open chamber here. That's the way to get negotiations that are

successful because that's what worked the last time. We were able

to get what we wanted, and I believe we can get more in future.

I thank the Minister for His work in getting the flexibility thus far,

and he is aware of the concern that there is on all sides of the House

regarding the implications of the welfare reform bill, but could he

spell it out again? I know he's done it before, but could he spell

out again the implications of the delay - those who exercised the

democratic mandate in setting up an ad hoc committee and have done so

and the cost for that and the further cost of the ad hoc

committee takes an inordinate time to conclude its business. Yeah, I -

Mr Speaker, I welcome the question from the member because, first of

all, there is the issue of the financial cost, and the current

estimated cost to the Northern Ireland bloc from potential delays

in the welfare reform bill not securing Royal Assent and the

associated regulations in time is �18 million. That's based on a

three-month delay in the current timetable, and it represents an

estimate of the annually managed expenditure controls which will not

be achieved and the funding which may have to be found by the

Northern Ireland executive for the discretionary elements of the

social fund, so it sets out very clearly the basis on which that

figure was obtained. It's not some figure somebody conjured up out of

the air. I have stated clearly the two elements that make up that

figure. I mentioned the three-month - I had a discussion with one

member of the chamber who told me the work could be done in three

days of the ad hoc committee. Human trafficking was on the agenda

today as MLAs discussed a report on the issue. A group of experts on

Action Against Trafficking have issued a report suggesting several

recommendations to help in the fight against the crime. Lord

Morrow, who has a Private Members' bill going through the House on the

issue, is calling for the Justice Minister to implement those

recommendations that are relevant to Northern Ireland.

In Northern Ireland, some potential victims of trafficking from EU

countries who are referred to the national referral mechanism were

repatriated two to four days after their referral. Mr Speaker this

concerns me greatly. Vulnerable victims of trafficking who had been

referred to the NRM need to be supported effectively. This is not

facilitated by deporting victims soon after they have been

identified. What will the Minister do to ensure this practise does not

happen again? A further problem that the report identifys is that

page 75, paragraph 332 and 333 is that according to information

provided by the Law Centre in Northern Ireland, victims of

trafficking have been prosecuted and detained in Northern Ireland

before it was established whether involvement is unlawful activities

had been due to coercion. GRETA understands there have been cases

of victims prosecuted and convicted in relation to migration and non-

migration cases including those convicted for cannabis cultivation.

It is concerned about the high numbers of trafficking who are

detained. There is no data on the number of potential and confirmed

victims of trafficking who are detained. Again, I find this

situation deeply concerning. These individuals should not be being

prosecuted, and they need to be protected. What will the Minister

do to ensure that they are? The report at page 9, paragraph 353

outlined there have been only two successful prosecution for

trafficking in human being offences in Northern Ireland, which has a

detrimental impact on victims and fails to provide them with the

option of claiming compensation from the offender in the framework

of a criminal trial. I would submit to him that given the scale of

trafficking in Northern Ireland, this state of affairs is completely

unacceptable and requires a step- change. At the current time, the

Minister has brought forward a Criminal Justice Bill. This bill

does propose changes to the legislation in the area of human

trafficking. Although these changes are welcome, they do not welcome a

number of proposals of GRETA report. I do appreciate this was due to the

fact the Criminal Justice Bill was produced before the GRETA bill was

published. However, now that the members have had the opportunity to

consider the report they should consider amendments to the criminal

justice system bill as a means of implementing outstanding GRETA

recommendations. It is important to stress human trafficking highlights

social inqualities both in the countries which the trafficking

comes from and in the countries of destination. The trafficking of

human beings is a violation of human rights and is perpetrated by

individuals and organisations solely for the profits - purpose of

profit. Basically, it is the poorest and most vulnerable people

from society, particularly women and young people, who become the

majority of those trafficked. a number of the recommendations of

GRETA actually talk about coordination, cooperation,

supporting one another and agencies working together, and I think if

there is one message that comes out of this, that should be it, and

that is that agencies both within the United Kingdom and Northern

Ireland and indeed within wider Europe and the rest of the world

need to be working together. They need a coordinated approach between

the Security Services and customs and indeed all the relevant

agencies. I think it's imperative that we actually listen to those

that are impacted by it. Those from an individual perspective and those

from agencies and authorities that actually know what happens in human

trafficking, and I have heard some horror stories, I have to tell you,

from people who have actually seen people being brought into Northern

Ireland, and we may actually think that this doesn't happen in

Northern Ireland. But that is where we're wrong. It does happen in

Northern Ireland. But I do have to say, Deputy Speaker, we can have

all the reports and acknowledgments that we want, but unless there is

actually action on the ground and a proper coordinated approach on the

ground, then that's not actually going to work. It's an issue that I

know from my role both as chair of the Organised Crime Task Force and

from engagement with MLAs and NGOs alike is extremely emotive, and I

want to tap into that emotion and the enthusiasm that comes with it

to maximise the efforts of this society against this wicked crime

because only by working in partnership and taking a holistic

approach against the three fronts of prevention, protection and

prosecution can we tackle this. DSSPS have responsibility and all

the departments must play their part. The Justice Minister, David

Ford. Stephen Walker, our political reporter, is with me again. Stephen,

an early finish today - does it look like it's going to be any

busier tomorrow? You're right. It was a quiet day today with

proceedings ending at 3.30pm. Tomorrow looks different. It looks

a lot busier. We'll hear from the Education Minister, the Health

Minister, and there will be questions to the agriculture

Minister. Interestingly, there will be a debate from the afternoon

about the narrow water bridge, and that whole project has been in the

headlines recently. The European Union is giving 17 million groorst

fund it, and they hope this bridge will be built by 2015. The DUP want

an investigation into the funding into the way the project has found

its way to the top of the list. They want that to be looked at. The

First Minister made this call relatively recently after he was

challenged by the SDLP that claim he wanted money diverted away, so

did whole issue has been in the headlines. That claim was made by

the SDLP by Margaret Ritchie at with the whole issue of this bridge

is going to come up tomorrow. Peter Robinson has rejected those claims,

and what the SDLP want tomorrow is the Finance Minister to back this