04/12/2012 Stormont Today


04/12/2012

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Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up, building bridges, not

:00:26.:00:30.

mending relationships this time, but the whys and wherefores of a

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new bridge at Narrow Water in County Down. Until this project is

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completed, the risk of all of the cost of the bridge rests with the

:00:42.:00:45.

executive in Northern Ireland. Also, a bit of straight talking

:00:45.:00:49.

from the Sports Minister during Question Time. I resent the

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implication that within the last 12 months, because I am in the

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department, there has been some sort of dip.

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And with me to discuss the vexed issue of unadopted roads, the

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Alliance MLA Stewart Dickson. Last month, the European Union said

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it would provide EUR17.5 million of funding for a new bridge at Narrow

:01:14.:01:17.

Water in County Down. Nationalists back the building of the bridge,

:01:17.:01:22.

which they say will provide a boost to tourism in South Down. But

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within days of the funding announcement, the First Minister

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Peter Robinson said he wants an investigation into the decision.

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Today amid differing views and significant unionist opposition, an

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SDLP motion called for the department of finance to back the

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project. In 1979, an engineering survey was commissioned. This

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showed that a bridge would be feasible. The proposal has enjoyed

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widespread support since then. Buy- back this project because it is a

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genuine cross-border project providing the first bridge linking

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Ireland north and south. It makes good sense at a social and economic

:02:02.:02:08.

level and on every conceivable measure of community benefit.

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find it offensive to refer to this project as a tourism boosting,

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rush-hour beating objective in terms of improving infrastructure.

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Any publicity surrounding the bridge has focused only on tourism,

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yet tourism alone is hardly a strong enough argument for an

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expensive undertaking. The project has caught the imagination of the

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people of South Down. The prospect of this great connector has given

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people hope for economic prosperity. Two other projects will be

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harnessed to create an economic boost in our east border region.

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Connecting the two historic areas allow an important cross-border

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projects that will develop the entire region's tourism potential

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by facilitating access to a spectacular area of mountain ranges,

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shimmering locks and a coastline. This area has been deprived of

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investment for too long. Considering the cost of the bridge

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in terms of overall infrastructure spending, a bridge at Narrow Water

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will provide a boost for the entire region. I will support this motion

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and support the construction of the bridge, as long as it is not at the

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expense of a sudden relief road, which offers huge benefits to Newry

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and right across the South Down area. It will be very much for

:03:40.:03:45.

tourism traffic. I would have serious concerns about the

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infrastructure on the County Louth side of the bridge. Just checking

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if the member has any idea of the figures as did the amount of

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traffic it would carry per day? have no idea what level of cafe

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there would be. But I am sure the minister will be happy to take my

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honourable friend's intervention and question him on that. A bridge

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is a huge symbol for humanity. Settlements have grown into

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villages, into towns, Inter cities around 14 places and around the

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bridges. Sir bridges are a proven stimulus to growth and development.

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And building of this bridge will link Northern Ireland and the

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Republic, and it can be seen as a local piece of infrastructure

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linking County Down to County Louth. It will facilitate local people and

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encourage good neighbourliness. It can also be seen as a valuable

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piece of tourism infrastructure. Some of the members who spoke

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probably no the economic appraisal better than I do. Actually, the

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main reason given for this bridge is not the tourism potential. The

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second most important reason given is not the tourist potential. And

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indeed, the appraisal itself states that given that it is unlikely "in

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our view that a large proportion of additional visitors will come to

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the area specifically attributes will able to the existence of the

:05:28.:05:34.

bridge". This is not an issue. For �1 million, you get a bridge. First

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of all, the amount of money which will come from departments in

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Northern Ireland is to �0.8 million. But more importantly, until this

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project is completed, the risk of all of the cost of the bridge rests

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with the executive in Northern Ireland. If this bridge is not

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completed on time, the final bill will be in by June 2015, then we

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lose all the money which is put into this project, because we will

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have missed the European deadline. The final decision on this has not

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been made. The DFB is the accountable department. Once a

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decision is made by the programme's steering committee, which it was on

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24th October, then all of the paperwork comes to the Department

:06:30.:06:34.

of Finance and Personnel. All of the relevant documentation is

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sorted. We will look at the costs, benefits, value for money and the

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risk before we make a final decision. It is my job, once I have

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received information, assessments by the officials, the professionals

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within of my department, on all of the relevant documentation and

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issues, to make up my mind. The one thing I can say, however, is that

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no one has ever been able to accuse me of making up my mind on the

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basis of whether I like who proposes that a motion or who

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opposes a motion or where it comes from. Unlike ministers from both

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Sinn Fein and the SDLP, I have not had my judgment called into

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question by the courts, and I don't intend that to happen. For that

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reason, I will not be making a pre- judgment on the issue today. I have

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never had an application for any European money where there has been

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the degree of political interest, political involvement, political

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dabbling that there has been with this application.

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The finance minister Sammy Wilson. And the proposal calling on the

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department of finance to support the new bridge was passed. 85

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members voted, 47 in favour and 38 against.

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A question over funding for sports clubs in east Belfast prompted some

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straight talking during questions to the culture, arts and leisure

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Minister Caral Ni Chulin. But first, here is the minister answering a

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question on the lasting legacy of the World Police and Fire Games.

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The accommodation has been raised as a possibility that might cause

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difficulty in delivering the Games. I would like to welcome the

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information road shows beginning this week. Could I ask the minister,

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does she think there are any lessons that can be taken from the

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efforts to create a lasting legacy from the 2012 Olympics and

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Paralympic Games that can be applied to the World Police and

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Fire Games? I do think there are lots of lessons we can learn,

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particularly the more positive aspects. We have young ambassadors

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who were involved in the Olympics and Paralympics. The Games Makers

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and volunteers around those games, we had to translate that to the

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World Police and Fire Games. The role of charities and under-

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represented communities, as well as looking at accommodation, which

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will be a big challenge. One idea that the City of London employed,

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we can perhaps learn from. We need to look at the overall position of

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where we are at in terms of enhancing the opportunities for the

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World Police and Fire Games. The incident that happened in Belfast

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last night does not add to the image of the friendliest games ever.

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I am concerned that long-term unemployed and young people in

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particular are given opportunities during the construction phase of

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the stadia. That was part of the specification for the procurement.

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I can give that comfort to the member. For a long time, we have

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been hearing about long-term unemployed, among but I am talking

:10:15.:10:21.

at least 12 months and beyond. In relation to the social causes that

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are included in the procurement contract, in the Ravenhill contract,

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we are looking to employ seven long-term unemployed people, to

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have 5% of the workforce in apprenticeship schemes, to have two

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student placements and produce five practical proposals put contract

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which will develop social returns for that area. Poor of the

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Department support of the IFA's idea of having a museum? The first

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time I heard about this was on the radio the other morning, and I just

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caught the tail-end of what was said. Within our museum family, we

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do need a sports focus. We have a proud history, and it is not

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reflected. Looking at the museum in Croke Park, it is a tourist

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attraction that brings people into the stadia. It adds to the economy

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and gives a history, reflecting the sport. That and so will come as a

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shock. Within the last of months, not one penny of money has gone

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into the East Belfast constituency. It is a very large constituency

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which has a high number of sports clubs actively pursuing sports in

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the area of. One can only question why that sudden drop-off has

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happened over the last 12 months. Can I ask the minister what she

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intends to do to reactivate the level of funding? I think you have

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got a question there. May be the member did not hear the beginning

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of the answer, so I will repeat it. No clubs in the East Belfast

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constituency have applied for funding within the last 12 months.

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I resent the implication that within the last 12 months, because

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I am in the department, there is some sort of dip in sports

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preparation in East Belfast. I wish the member would clarify their

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position. I am happy to meet him and also meet groups in East

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Belfast to hear what the sport needs are. But I will not tolerate

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people making inferences because they had not applied for funding

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rather than had not received funding.

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A very firm Caral Ni Chulin. The Agriculture Minister Michel

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O'Neill told the chamber this afternoon her that up to 8000 trees

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have now been destroyed here in an effort to contain ash dieback.

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During question time, she also revealed that there are now 16

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separate outbreaks of the tree disease across Northern Ireland.

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Our strategy for dealing with the disease requires surveillance off

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likely sources of infection, detection and eradication of

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diseased trees. Some councils have landfill facilities and have made

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these available for burial of trees that need to be destroyed. One

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council has been involved because trees were recently found on their

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land. The council is working to destroy the trees. The chief

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executive is compacting council chief executives when diseased

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trees are found in that area to advise them of the finding, to

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brief them of the actions that need to be taken and timber offer basic

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biosecurity advice. Recreation officer has also play an important

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part in the monitoring of trees and alerted department when they are

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concerned about disease. In terms of current spread of the age of

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disease, the position this morning was that there had been 16

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confirmed outbreaks at recently planted at sites. The confirmed

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outbreaks are in County Antrim, Derry, down and Tyrone. Again, as

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of this morning, there were four separate sources, two of which were

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planted out, all linked to imports from continental Europe. To date,

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no cases have been confirmed on forested land. This disease is a

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high priority for our department. Resources are being committed to

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tracing the disease. In addition, we have surveillance under way and

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are targeting 1000 sites. Our strategy going forward to eradicate

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the disease will depend on the outcome of this violence and the

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development of scientific advice. The Diamond Jubilee site was

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established in County Antrim last year with the planting of some

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60,000 trees in conjunction with the Department of Forestry. The

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condition of the grant was that around 20,000 ash trees had to be

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planted. Is it good practice to insist that such a high percentage

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of single species tree in any project has a condition? I can't

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speak about that case, but I can confirm that this strain of this

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disease is different to what we have seen in Europe, which is why

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there are particular problems with identifying the effective treatment.

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The science is not there because this is a relatively new disease,

:15:32.:15:38.

only found since 2011 in England. We are trying to develop the

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science and treatments moving forward. At this stage, it is about

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taking the new plants so that it never gets into the older plants.

:15:48.:15:58.
:15:58.:15:59.

But it is not because there was no Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. As

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the Minister said, England has covered this last year - has the

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Minister engaged with parts of England and Wales where it's

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affected? You know, the best practise is what they have been

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doing to address this problem... can assure the member that it's my

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priority to make sure we eradicate this disease. That's very much the

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stage we're at in terms of eradicating the disease. We're very

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much involved in surveillance and research. We'll look to everybody,

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particularly to England because of the position they're currently now

:16:32.:16:38.

in. We also look towards the south of Ireland, and we have very much

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applied for this discerning approach when it comes to keeping

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it out. That's important work. It's very important we engage

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particularly as we develop the science. We don't want to reinvent

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the wheel. We'll also use that method. We're working with DEFRA

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and with the south. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I

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thank the Minister for Her answers so far. Could the Minister answer

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what steps she is taking to ensure that the four sources identified

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for this disease in Northern Ireland are the only sources?

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assure the member we're currently out surveilling. As I said, we

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don't want to survey about a thousand site, which we want to

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make sure there are no symptoms present. At this moment in time I

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think we have been to over 200 sites, but there is like a trade

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trace, if you like, so anything that's been imported from those

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potential sites or those sites where there has been cases detected,

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we're very much tracing that whole movement. The officials are

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currently working through that process at the minute. We have

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diverted a lot of staff to make sure they're on the ground doing

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the inspections and getting as much information as possible.

:17:53.:17:55.

The Agriculture Minister, Michelle O'Neill. The controversial issue of

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flying the Union flag over Belfast City Hall has dominated the news

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headlines in recent days, and flags were also on the agenda at Stormont

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today when members had an opportunity to ask questions about

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the running of the Assembly. The arrangements, Mr Deputy Speaker,

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for the flying of the Union flag from Government buildings in

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Northern Ireland are set out in the flag's regulations, Northern

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Ireland Order 3,000 as amended by the flag's regulation, Northern

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Ireland amendment 2002. The Assembly Commission's policy is to

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follow those regulations. The list of designated days of which the

:18:32.:18:37.

member will be aware of on to these -- under these regulations is

:18:37.:18:42.

regulated by OFMDFM each year. Generally, 15 days in total, and

:18:42.:18:52.
:18:52.:18:52.

it's not zuded by the -- decided by the Assembly Commission. The issue

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the member has raised will be considered at the next Assembly

:18:56.:19:01.

Commission meeting next week. Alastair for supplementary. Could I

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ask the Commissioner to confirm that the flag's regulations of 2000

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do not by law apply to this building, nor the designated days,

:19:11.:19:16.

but rather by the choice of the Assembly Commission, who choose to

:19:16.:19:20.

cruise them as the temp plait they follow. There is no compulsion on

:19:20.:19:24.

the Commission to do that by law. It is their choice. Therefore, the

:19:24.:19:29.

commission could change that policy, that the Commission has by its

:19:29.:19:34.

voting measures a Unionist majority when it comes to voting, and is he

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telling us that not a single member, including those who went through a

:19:40.:19:50.
:19:50.:19:57.

process of faexu anger about the absence of the flag on Ulster day...

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The onset of devolved governments in Northern Ireland has decided to

:20:00.:20:05.

implement the policy, and we shouldn't be any different from

:20:05.:20:08.

that. I can confirm the member - picking up on his second point. In

:20:08.:20:12.

my time on this Assembly Commission I have never had or received any

:20:12.:20:22.
:20:22.:20:24.

other requests to fly the flags on any other day. Could I ask Mr

:20:24.:20:29.

Ramsey - given the disgraceful scenes outside City Hall yesterday

:20:29.:20:32.

evening - THE SPEAKER: Order, please. That's

:20:32.:20:37.

not a relevant question. Absolutely. Let me finish. Could I ask if the

:20:37.:20:41.

Commission has considered establishing either a subcommittee

:20:41.:20:46.

or an ad hoc committee to discuss the whole flags issue and perhaps

:20:46.:20:51.

give a lead to other - the rest of the region? I certainly agree with

:20:51.:20:54.

the member, certainly. The flags issue is a very emotive and

:20:54.:20:58.

sensitive one and is one the Assembly Commission going forward

:20:58.:21:01.

is always mindful of, and in those circumstances we will reflect and

:21:02.:21:08.

will note members' concerns on that. We always are going forward try to

:21:08.:21:14.

achieve the most consensus on any issue irrespective of how important

:21:14.:21:18.

or how other members would see it as a priority. It is a case that I

:21:18.:21:21.

don't feel it necessary at this stage for the Commission - because

:21:21.:21:24.

they are mandated by the parties to represent each party on the

:21:24.:21:28.

Assembly Commission, and I am sure in our discussions next week, and

:21:28.:21:33.

specifically, on a formal request from a member of this House may

:21:33.:21:37.

lead to some deliberations, may lead to some discussions, but at

:21:37.:21:41.

the present time, I do believe the leadership has been taken by the

:21:41.:21:45.

Assembly Commission by having a designated 15 days, which is

:21:45.:21:48.

consistent with other policies in other public buildings across

:21:48.:21:50.

Northern Ireland. The SDLP's Pat Ramsey. The problem

:21:51.:21:53.

of abandoned roads need to be addressed. That's according to the

:21:53.:21:55.

Regional Development Committee, and it wants the Minister, Danny

:21:56.:21:58.

Kennedy, to urgently address the current backlog of unadopted roads

:21:58.:22:01.

and sewers. The issue was debated in the chamber following an inquiry

:22:01.:22:09.

into the problem. During the course of the inquiry, the Committee were

:22:10.:22:17.

advised there were anywhere between 1,200 and 3,500 unadopted roads and

:22:17.:22:23.

some 1,200 sewerage gains in backlog. DMD and AMA Water are

:22:23.:22:26.

unable to quantify the precise numbers, something which the

:22:26.:22:29.

committee believes to be a significant weakness in itself.

:22:29.:22:33.

Recommendations to negate this weakness have been made. It was

:22:33.:22:38.

also estimated that it would take some 300 million to bring roads up

:22:38.:22:41.

to a standard sufficient to allow for adoption and somewhere in the

:22:42.:22:49.

range of �41 million and �100 million to allow for adoption of

:22:49.:22:53.

waste water schemes. As can be expected in today's economic

:22:53.:22:57.

climate, it is extremely unlikely that these levels of inquestment

:22:57.:23:00.

can be required from central Government. However, the committee

:23:00.:23:06.

is not suggesting that actions cannot be taken to rectify this

:23:06.:23:10.

significant problem, but rather, a coordinated effort by all sectors

:23:10.:23:14.

involved in the process could see major improvements in the most

:23:14.:23:20.

critical cases. The committee does not waste - prohibit recovery in

:23:20.:23:23.

the construction industry. It has received sufficient evidence to

:23:23.:23:28.

indicate that the level of bond coverage is currently insufficient

:23:28.:23:32.

to cover remedial walks. That may be required to bring

:23:32.:23:36.

infrastructures to a standard where they could be adopted. As someone

:23:36.:23:40.

with a background in financial services, I am well aware costs of

:23:40.:23:45.

bonds are based on the financial risk that the financial institution

:23:45.:23:50.

granting the bond has to undertake. We seem in the past to have been

:23:50.:23:54.

reluctant to enforce bonds. In my time as a councillor I find it

:23:54.:23:58.

frustrating when attempting to push for a resolution the road service

:23:58.:24:02.

seems to be reluctant to force the hand of the developer in relation

:24:02.:24:10.

to the bond. For that reason I -- the department reviews a more

:24:10.:24:15.

prompt reaction to calling on the bond. I feel a priority must be

:24:15.:24:18.

given in relation to a prioritisation audit within each

:24:18.:24:21.

council area. We must see this completed as quick as possible. We

:24:21.:24:26.

must also see the basis of priority based on intervention implemented

:24:26.:24:30.

as soon as funds become available. Time and time again each member

:24:30.:24:34.

will know that they get their the run-around in terms of who is

:24:34.:24:38.

responsible for a particular problem, and that needs to end. We

:24:38.:24:44.

need to find a solution arising out of this report that puts an end to

:24:44.:24:49.

that. The committee has made a very sensible recommendation that NOGA

:24:49.:24:53.

coordinates and prioritises an audit to allow for the possibility

:24:53.:24:56.

that unadopted roads and infrastructures causing risk to

:24:56.:25:00.

public health and safety could be addressed by the department and/or

:25:00.:25:04.

Northern Ireland Water. This is in my view a sensible way for us to

:25:04.:25:08.

try and deal with the problems that already exist. The vast majority of

:25:08.:25:13.

private street sites determined for adoption go through without the

:25:13.:25:16.

need for additional intervention from my department. For example, in

:25:16.:25:22.

the past five years, road service has adopted some 416 kilometres of

:25:22.:25:27.

new roads and housing developments, and Northern Ireland Water has

:25:27.:25:31.

adopted sewage schemes in 772 developments. That said, I do

:25:31.:25:38.

recognise there are an increasing number of problem sites - in some

:25:38.:25:41.

cases a consequence of the economic downturn, but I think in all cases

:25:41.:25:47.

as a result of developers washing their hands of their

:25:47.:25:51.

responsibilities, and I'm absolutely determined to tackle the

:25:51.:25:57.

- these developers and that legacy. The primary responsibility for

:25:57.:26:04.

providing new roads and sewers in housing developments lies with the

:26:04.:26:08.

developer, and whilst I have no immediate plans to change the

:26:08.:26:12.

private streets legislation, it doesn't follow that I would rule

:26:12.:26:17.

out changes in the future to broaden the legislation. Developers

:26:17.:26:21.

must have that clear warning in mind when meeting their obligations

:26:21.:26:28.

under existing legislation. Roads Minister Danny Kennedy. And

:26:28.:26:31.

I'm joined in the studio by the Alliance MLA, Stewart Dickson, who

:26:31.:26:33.

sits on the Regional Development Committee. Your committee clearly

:26:33.:26:37.

thinks this issue is a problem. How big a problem? Well, that in itself,

:26:37.:26:42.

is a problem, Mark, because we estimate it's between 1200 and

:26:42.:26:47.

maybe as many as 3,500 properties are affected across Northern

:26:48.:26:51.

Ireland by the issue of unadopted roads and the consequences of that.

:26:51.:26:58.

In fact, we have accepted an offer from and encouraged the Minister to

:26:58.:27:02.

take up an offer from NOLGA, the Local Government Association, to

:27:02.:27:07.

actually survey in the 26 councils across Northern Ireland to actually

:27:07.:27:10.

get an accurate assessment of the number of properties affected.

:27:10.:27:13.

the people who find themselves caught in this trap, it's a very

:27:13.:27:17.

difficult situation for them to deal with. Do you think we need

:27:17.:27:19.

tougher legislation to actually sort the problem out, because the

:27:19.:27:24.

Minister is not particularly keen, but he hasn't ruled it out in the

:27:24.:27:28.

longer term? He hasn't. While it might be nice to contemplate a

:27:28.:27:30.

complete package of legislation to deal with this problem, I think

:27:30.:27:34.

there are things which the Minister can actually do with existing

:27:34.:27:37.

legislation. For example, it's a little disappointing he hasn't

:27:37.:27:40.

taken the opportunity with the current water bill to include

:27:40.:27:43.

Northern Ireland Water in the bonding arrangements, which they're

:27:43.:27:46.

currently not in, so therefore a property could actually have been

:27:46.:27:52.

built and not have a proper water supply delivered to it, and if the

:27:52.:27:55.

building goes - builder goes out of business or something else happens,

:27:55.:27:59.

the householder is left without a proper water supply. Briefly, there

:27:59.:28:03.

are bonds in place... There are. Why can't they be used more

:28:03.:28:07.

effectively? The bonds are in place primarily for the road, but they're

:28:07.:28:11.

not necessarily in place for water, and they are at the end of the day

:28:11.:28:15.

an insurance-based policy, and the builder has to take out the bond.

:28:15.:28:19.

The insurance company has the pay up. I can't let you go without

:28:19.:28:22.

asking you about the flags issue. It was raised here, as we have

:28:22.:28:26.

heard, in Stormont today. This evening, if anything, the situation

:28:26.:28:29.

seems to be getting a little bit more hot and heavy. Yes, that's

:28:29.:28:36.

very disappointing. It's particularly disappointing that

:28:36.:28:40.

alliance people seem to be getting the brunt of this in terms of what

:28:40.:28:44.

is going on. After all, Belfast city council is actually only doing

:28:45.:28:49.

what the DUP and others have agreed to do in Lisburn city council.

:28:49.:28:53.

people need to take a step back? Absolutely. Thank you very much for

:28:53.:28:55.

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