05/02/2013 Stormont Today


05/02/2013

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Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up on the programme: The

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Health Minister moves to reassure the public following the latest

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horse meat controversy. Those who work there have no safety concerns

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at the moment, this is more a matter of labelling and information

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being put forward to the public. MLAs pledge to do more to tackle

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those using social networks to spread hatred. I have been told to

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go home on Twitter when I was actually sitting at home. I have

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been told I have a foreign accent when I am in Ireland. And a man

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who's dealt with issues of internet safety and exploitation - Jim

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Gamble - joins me in the studio. The latest controversy over horse

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meat prompted an urgent oral question to Edwin Poots this

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afternoon. Speaking in his role as Public Safety Minister, Mr Poots

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stressed there is no risk to human health. This is a matter for the

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Food Standards Agency and district councils. Investigations are under

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way in regard to product stored which tested positive for horse DNA.

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I am not in a position to provide further details in relation to this

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investigation because of possible legal proceedings. The FSA has said

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this is not a food safety issue. When will the FSA alert him to the

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concerns regarding DNA horsemeat within Northern Ireland? And can

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the minister reassure the house everything has been done by his

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department to make sure the authenticity of meat products

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coming through Northern Ireland are properly certified? The FSA was

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informed that samples taken by the Republic of Ireland Department of

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Agriculture showed levels of equine DNA up to 75%. On fourth February,

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the FSA received samples. Of 12 samples taken, two tested positive

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for equine DNA. What is absolutely clear here and what must be made

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clear to the public that the standards who work in the FSA have

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no food safety concerns that this point. It is more a matter of

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labelling and information put forward to the public and a matter

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of consumer confidence, but this is not a food safety issue. While it

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might not be an issue for food safety, is there any implications

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for public health? Can I appeal to the minister and to the relevant

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authorities to try to get as much information out as quickly as

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possible so we can alleviate people's fears? For at this minute

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there are no issues of concern for public health. Horsemeat is

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commonly used in other parts of Europe, however if people buy a

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beefburger they expect a beefburger. If it contains horsemeat and it

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says so, people can make their choices. The Public Safety Minister,

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Edwin Poots. I'm joined now by our Political Correspondent, Martina

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Purdy. First of all, how seriously is this issue being taken by

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Ministers here at Stormont? Reputation is everything in terms

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of the food industry and it is being taken very seriously. The

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First Minister today said he wanted the police to investigate. The

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agriculture minister has asked the agency to enhance its inspections

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and has moved to reassure everyone that home-grown food in Northern

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Ireland, local beef is very safe to eat, and there is traceability. The

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agriculture committee heard a briefing from the Department of

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Agriculture officials, interesting to hear the chairman of the

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committee saying he sees this as a legacy of supermarkets driving down

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food prices and that debate main run and run. There have also been

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developments this evening on the flags issue at Stormont. What can

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you tell us about that? There will be a review of the flying of the

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Union flag and the number of days it flies. It flies on designated

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days, around 15, but the issue erupted over the decision to

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curtail the number of days to fly the flag. The Assembly commission

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this evening, nationalists did not attend, but the alliance, DUP and

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Ulster Unionist representatives decided to task officials to

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consult about options for flying the Union flag. They will report

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back in three months, not just about options for how many days the

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flag should be flown. Also how the public consultation might be

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handled. So what is the nationalist view of this? They are boycotting

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that body and today Sinn Fein asked for a motion to be tabled with a

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view to setting up an ad hoc committee to deal with flags,

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emblems and language. There was knocked back and tonight I spoke to

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a Sinn Fein representative who said they are questioning whether the

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decision is valid. We will have to wait and see how this turns out but

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the DUP say there is progress being made and they are looking forward

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to the report. Thank you. The dark side of the

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internet was one of the themes of the day here on the hill. There

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were two motions on the topic, the first expressing a desire to see

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social networking sites better regulated by the law. When children

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go out of their house, the parents want to know where they are going,

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who will be with them, and who they are meeting. We need to view the

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internet in much the same way. Hate crime is another aspect of social

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networking sides which has created a space for those who perpetrate

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hatred and violence attacks feeling they can do so with impunity.

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would he care to comment on the fact that Sinn Fein website there

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is now appeared deep excerpt "Boycott's all orange owned

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businesses". Does she take the view that is an attempt to direct people

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to discriminate in their business practices, and then its own way a

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propagation of hatred? A as far as I am aware, that is not a Sinn Fein

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website. If to be able to democratise communication and

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remove barriers for free speech, to allow people to interact with other

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people irrespective of any type of restriction is indeed a very

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beautiful Thing, but with that right comes a responsibility to do

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so in a respectful way and in a manner which is consistent with the

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values and standards of modern society. I have been told to go

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home on Twitter when I was actually sitting at home. I have been told I

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have a foreign accent when I am in Ireland. One well known commentator

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who rides for a well-known newspaper said on his Facebook page

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that my whole party were a bunch of... The word can't be repeated in

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this house. Is that for me? Acceptable? Is it smart? Mr

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Humphrey seems to think so. You do think so? That is sad. Everyone in

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this house, Facebook and Twitter has been used to describe us in

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derogatory terms and I support people's right to be able to

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express themselves. I do not support for social media to be used

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in an illegal form and their members of this house where

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prosecutions have been brought because it has overstepped the line

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and it is in that respect better regulation I support because

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undoubtedly Facebook is slow in my review to respond to the way in

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which it is used by individuals of whatever particular grievances.

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There have been slow to respond and there forums have been used to

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Inside violence. I have come under serious abuse on the social

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networking field, and somewhat from other MLAs in this chamber. I know

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we are in the cut and thrust of politics, but it is not always the

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most appropriate talk. The platform has been created on which abusive,

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threatening the use can be easily voiced to individuals and groups.

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Recently we have seen a mixture of what can be described as legal and

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illegal activities in social media in Northern Ireland, whipping up a

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frenzy of hatred and mistrust. We have heard stories about people

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taking their own lives after a sickening and horrible messages are

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left on their social media pages. The Alliance Party's Stewart

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Dickson. Now staying on a similar theme, the First and Deputy First

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Ministers have agreed to take the lead on a strategy to help children

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enjoy the internet safely. A cross- party motion asked the Assembly to

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recognise the dangers the internet can pose to children and to build

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on the work already underway at both Westminster and Stormont.

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internet and social networking is a wonderful tool and the digital

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revolution is as important as all the period of technological change

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in our history. We can't imagine life without Facebook, Twitter, e-

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mail, the internet and the way it enriches lives and are so much part

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of day-to-day life, but the internet and social media has a

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more sinister side and there are risks to young people in the online

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world. I am indebted to the NSPCC for the briefing paper on this

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issue which categorises some of these challenges into content Hahn,

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things Basie, conduct issues - of the way they behave, and contact

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harm - people they may meet. I am one of those mothers who refuses to

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allow her children to have a Facebook profile, yet 88% of people

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use Facebook just five to minimum age of 18. It is often the case

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that young people know more about how to work online than parents do,

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yet parents need to be responsible and find out more about how to

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protect young people and provide help and guidance. The culture,

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arts and leisure committee are looking at education and safe use

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of the internet for young people and parents. That is part of our

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investigation into the constituency around child protection. The

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internet is an amazing tool for everyone and it is really for

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sharing information and learning, but society is rapidly changing in

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terms of how many people socialise and many in this chamber used

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Facebook and Twitter, but there are also other social platforms such as

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Google Plus, YouTube, and many others. The internet is becoming

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much more accessible through tablets and smartphones and with

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the introduction of 3G. This is for the benefit of a faster and broader

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internet, and therein lies potential dangers including

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grooming and access to an appropriate content as well as the

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risks of self generation of images. This can have a devastating effect

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on a child in his or her development. The common message I

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hear on this issue is that we need to be talking to children with a

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very clear message on internet safety and we need to have been

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making parents, teachers and careers aware of the signs and

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symptoms of cyber bullying. For the many children who benefit from

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internet use, there are those who are subjected to horrific examples

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of cyber bullying and exploitation. The approach should be one which

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empowers parents and carers to be able to engage with confidence with

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the new medium. Taking schools as an example, there is a general

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consensus from those I have spoken to that we need to be providing

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more education on the responsible use of the technology. Jim Gamble

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advocates prioritising which aspects refocus resources upon and

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suggests a curriculum is built around this with regards to online

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conduct, content and contact. Does a child, parent and Karen know the

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answers to questions such as how to block online, have to support a

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friend, have to report to were responsible adult, how to report to

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He is spaeging to the prism of someone who is younger than most

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parents. As a parent myself when this issue first arose that the

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vast majority of over 50 this is a complete nightmare. Parents are in

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no position to control their children's internet access because

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they don't have the scientific or knowledge to do so. Therefore, it's

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uncouple bent upon society to place restrictions at a general level so

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parents aren't being forced into this situation where they have to

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take on something they haven't a clue to do anything with.

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The DUP's Jim Wells. The motion was passed with

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unanimous support. Jim Gamble, the former Chief

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Cxecutive of CEOP, the Child Exploitation and Online Protection

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Centre, is with me now. Time and again today MLAs made the point

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that parents need to be stpobl for their children's online activities.

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They know very little about the internet and social networking

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sites. What is the answer to that conundrum? The Assembly has it

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within their gift to support parents more effectively. I have

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been talking to the Office of the First and Deputy First Minister

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about this issue. I believe it's the partnership between education,

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schools, children themselves and parents that allows you to create

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this cycle where homeworks over a period of time children and parents

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learn together. You need to educate children about internet safety much

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you also need to Keat parents about what to look out for in terms of

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protecting their children online? You give the children a homework

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that they are to deliver with their parent to explain something about

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social media. To get feed back from the parent so that they understand

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privacy settings or terms or conditions on a social networking

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site. As you build the parental competence in this area, and that

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moves on, you change the emphasis towards the parent sharing safety

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information with the child. Jim We wills made the point that for

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parents of a certain age this is a bit of a nightmare. It's a big

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hurdle for lots of people to overcome? It is. Today is Safer

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Internet Day we have to applaud the Assembly for taking time out to

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give this the attention it deserves. On Safer Internet Day you hear

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white noise and sometimes it turns into a photo opportunity. People

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will hear about the risks. What is it that parents need to concentrate

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on? Bullying. Bullying undermines the quality of life for children.

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Children in this country and across the bored ver actually been bullied

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to death -- boarder have actually been bullied to death. That is

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everybody's business. You talk about the three Cs, conduct,

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content and contact? Absolutely. How they treat other people online.

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The content they create by sexting images or pornographic material

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which is ill advised to do. Contact, people they will meet or go offline

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to meet. Schools are ahead of the game. They focus on the three Cs we

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have to put the detail into the hands of parents so they are

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empowered to work with their children. Is your message to

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parents is that they don't have a choice. They have to take it

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seriously whether they want to or not? They can be a good parent or a

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bad parent. To be a good parent you need to do what our parents did

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many years ago, sitting down and talking with your child. Learning

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the things that will have an impact on how safely they live their lives.

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There was discussion last night about the ramifications of the

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National Crime Agency not getting the green light to operate in

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Northern Ireland. What are the implications as far as child abuse

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online is concerned if that green light doesn't happen? I heard the

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debate. I heard it stated if it doesn't happen we will not be able

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to protect our children because Child Exploitation and Online

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Protection Centre won't operate here. We never deployed officers in

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the field. We supported education inititives and provided information

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to local police and local child protection teams so they could

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deliver local support and protection for kids. That hasn't

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changed as far as I'm aware. They need political reconciliation about

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accessing National Crime Agency services here in Northern Ireland.

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Local is the key to understanding the protection we need in this part

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of the world? Absolutely. Local accountability and local

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information delivered to local protection teams. That is how you

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do it best. That is what CEOP has always done well. Thank you very

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much for joining us tonight. Earlier today, the Health Minister

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announced he's bringing forward a public consultation on how best to

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maximise organ donation rates. During a visit to Belfast City

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Hospital with the First and Deputy First Ministers, Edwin Poots said

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he wants to gauge opinion on moving to an opt-out scheme.

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That means people will automatically give their consent to

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donating their organs unless they specifically say otherwise.

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Meantime, the issue of organ donation was also a hot topic

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during this afternoon's health questions. I'm pleased to inform

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the member that the recent NHS blood and transplant activity date

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for Northern Ireland indicates that transplants for Northern Ireland

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residents have increased in recent years whilst the number of people

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on the active transplant waiting list is falling. It is note worthy

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that 30% of the Northern Ireland population have now added their

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name to the organ donor register. This is a huge achievement, I

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recognise that more needs to be done as there are still around 200

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people actively waiting for an organ transplant. In June 2012 I

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established the Northern Ireland Committee for organ donation and

:21:18.:21:24.

transplantation which is made up of commissioners, clinicians, NHS

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representatives and the voluntary sector to ensure the momentum of

:21:27.:21:31.

progress in the field of organ donation is maintained and built

:21:31.:21:37.

upon. My department has also been working with NHS BT in conjunction

:21:37.:21:40.

with the other health UK administrations in the development

:21:40.:21:46.

of a new UK organ donation and transplantation strategy designed

:21:46.:21:52.

to build upon the momentum of the original organ donor task force. I

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suspect to have a draft within the next few weeks. As there is a

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strange -- as there is sustained interest in the introduction of an

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opt-out system I'm proposing a public survey oned a tuets towards

:22:09.:22:14.

an opt-out system and the views of the transplant-related charities,

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donor families and those on waiting lists and the health service

:22:19.:22:24.

community will be sought. Can I welcome the fact that the Health

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Minister, First Minister and Deputy First Minister recognised this

:22:27.:22:30.

morning, conveniently enough, the need for change. As the Minister

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will be aware I'm bringing a private members bill to this House

:22:35.:22:39.

and today is a very personal day for me as its the fouth anniversary

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of my son's transplant. Does the Minister support the broad policy

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intent of my Bill and that a soft opt-out system is the best solution

:22:48.:22:54.

to help save lives here in Northern Ireland? Willing, this isn't

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something that my interest has been aroused in recently. One of my

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relatives is actually one of the longest surviving donor transplants

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in Northern Ireland. Last year, my best man's sister was buried

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because she didn't get a liver transplant early enough. And, these

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are all things that we have grave concerns about. That is why

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whenever David Cameron came to visit here, the only time he came

:23:24.:23:30.

to visit here, that I raised the UK of the -- interest of the UK

:23:30.:23:33.

introducing a scheme right across the UK. That would be the most

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successful scheme given the numbers of people potential participants

:23:38.:23:44.

across the UK. I further raised it with the Health Minister in England

:23:44.:23:47.

and he indicated that they weren't prepared to move forward at that

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time. We have been having conversations with our Welsh

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counterparts on how to move this forward. Indeed, we have been

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pursuing the issue in recent days. In all of that, I believe that we

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can continue to drive organ donation upwards. I do believe that

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an opt-out scheme can help to maximise that. I believe that an

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opt-out scheme with a strong educational emphasis will actually

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fully maximise the number of organ donation that is we will actually

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have in Northern Ireland. Maybe the minister could tell us what

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developments he had with the rest of Britain and also with Dublin in

:24:30.:24:35.

terms if there is some way in which we can create greater efficiencies

:24:35.:24:40.

in matching donors? In terms of deseized donors we are at 30%,

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higher than any other part of the UK. We are not satisfied with being

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the best in the UK. We want to be Bert and continue to drive this up.

:24:48.:24:54.

We will work closely with others. We won't allow ourselves to be held

:24:54.:24:57.

back by others. The Health Minister, Edwin Poots.

:24:57.:25:00.

The Justice Minister, David Ford, got a pat on the back from the

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Speaker after he managed to get through an impressive 15 questions

:25:03.:25:05.

in his session today. Among the issues raised, a funding

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shortfall in the civil legal aid budget. Deputy Speaker the main

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course of the legal aid funding pressure relates to civil legal aid

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as the changes I have made to criminal legal aid are beginning to

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take effect. Expenditure on criminal legal aid has reduced from

:25:20.:25:27.

�60 million in 2009/10 and is further forecast to reduce to �35

:25:27.:25:32.

million by 2014/15. Civil legal aid expenditure has continued to

:25:33.:25:35.

increase, contributing to the shortfall in legal aid allocation

:25:36.:25:40.

for this year. Prior to devolution net expenditure on civil legal aid

:25:41.:25:49.

increased from �11.4 million in 199/2000 to �36 million and has

:25:49.:25:54.

continued to rise to �53.3 million in 2012. This underlines the

:25:54.:25:58.

importance of the civil legal aid reforms I'm bringing forward. With

:25:58.:26:06.

regard to the 2012/13 pressure a budget cover has been provided to

:26:06.:26:12.

cover the shortfall. We are working to identify further funding. We are

:26:12.:26:16.

in strapped economic climate, and there are inevitable job losses

:26:16.:26:20.

likely in relation to, I wanted to ask the minister when does he hope

:26:20.:26:26.

that he will be able to bring forward proposals in order to

:26:26.:26:32.

alleviate future problems? Well, I appreciate the point. When she

:26:32.:26:36.

talks about substantive proposals there are a number of substantive

:26:36.:26:39.

proposals underway at the moment to deal with the issue of civil legal

:26:39.:26:43.

aid expenditure. As far as this year is concerned, we, at this

:26:43.:26:49.

point, have effectively ensured 94% of the anticipated costs which

:26:49.:26:52.

given the very significant increase under anticipated in year, I

:26:52.:26:57.

believe shows good work being done by my officials. There is more work

:26:57.:27:02.

to be done. The substantive issue is to tackle the cost of civil

:27:02.:27:06.

legal aid. We have shown over the last two years that the efforts

:27:06.:27:09.

made to tackle criminal legal aid have resulted in reduced

:27:09.:27:12.

expenditure. With the support of the justice committee and the

:27:12.:27:15.

Assembly I believe we will be able to ensure we also tackle the civil

:27:15.:27:21.

side. Could I ask the minister, there has been a substantial

:27:21.:27:26.

backlog of payments to practitioners and, in consequence,

:27:26.:27:29.

the legal services commission have advised that some of that will not

:27:30.:27:36.

be cleared up until the new financial year on check runs which

:27:37.:27:43.

begin then. Can I ask the minister, will legal aid then be subject to

:27:43.:27:48.

late payment commercial debt facilities? Are those obtainable

:27:48.:27:54.

from the legal aid services in respect of late payments? Will that

:27:54.:27:58.

add to the cost? He declares a former interest which shows she

:27:58.:28:03.

better informed on the mechanics on receiving legal aid than I am. The

:28:03.:28:08.

reality is that I have highlighted having on taind �16 million against

:28:08.:28:11.

an unforeseen pressure of �22 million, there will be a very small

:28:11.:28:15.

sum of money not paid. I'm also well aware of the fact that in many

:28:15.:28:19.

cases lawyers do not submit their bills for legal aid for some months

:28:19.:28:24.

and some occasions some years after the event. I'm not sure if lawyers

:28:24.:28:28.

have their parents delayed by a matter of a week or two they would

:28:28.:28:32.

necessarily have any justified case for seeking additional payments.

:28:32.:28:36.

The Justice Minister, David Ford. Now, just before we go, we thought

:28:36.:28:40.

we'd let you know about a visitor who dropped in to pay a courtesy

:28:40.:28:41.

call at Parliament Buildings this afternoon.

:28:41.:28:45.

The President of the Kurdistan Region of Iraq caused a bit of a

:28:45.:28:47.

stir when he arrived in the Great Hall.

:28:47.:28:50.

His Excellency Masoud Barzani was met by the Speaker, Willie Hay, and

:28:50.:28:53.

the Trade and Investment Minister, Arlene Foster, as part of a two-day

:28:53.:29:01.

visit organised by Invest NI. Smiles all round.

:29:01.:29:03.

Well, that's all the excitement for this evening.

:29:03.:29:06.

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