04/02/2013 Stormont Today

Hello, and welcome to Stormont Today. It's been described as a

British version of the FBI, but will its powers be extended to

Northern Ireland? MLAs clash over the new National Crime Agency.

is happening is a winding back of the clock and the Home Secretary

should be acting to ensure that the people of Northern Ireland to not

get the second rate policing surface. What we do not want to

have is a falls outside a force. And breaking the rules - MLAs get a

telling off from the Speaker. members feel they have to have

electronic devices in the chamber, they should do it in respectful

manner and some members are not doing that. And I'm joined by the

News Letter's political correspondent, Sam McBride.

It's been described as a British FBI, but a proposal to give the new

National Crime Agency jurisdiction in Northern Ireland has prompted a

row at the heart of the Executive. Both main unionist parties and

Alliance support its introduction, but the SDLP and Sinn Fein have

serious concerns. The debate reached the floor of the chamber

this afternoon. We note that they have been a tense

to have aged legislative consent nation through the Executive which

has failed. But to me is very costly to Northern Ireland, very

costly to the fight against that crime and there are serious

international crime. Quite clearly in Northern Ireland there has been

a history of terrorism and criminals often being linked. But

this is not just about terrorism in Northern Ireland. This is much

wider. This is about international crime and criminals. This is about

the drug trafficking, the people trafficking, the smuggling, the

serious organised crime and the paedophiles. That is the time of

crime there we are talking about. This is not a debate about whether

or not they should be a National Crime Agency. The debate is about

whether or not it should be as accountable as the PSNI is today.

In other words, when we have PSNI officers that we hold fully to

account through the policing board and we have potential National

Crime Agency officers, that there should be held to the same standard

of accountability. What is happening is a winding back of the

clock and the Home Secretary should be acting to insure that the people

of Northern Ireland do not get a second-rate policing service

because that is what will happen if this is allowed to stand. Why they

want to position themselves on the side of those who exploit children,

he trafficking in beings in Northern Ireland, it is beyond me

why they would want to put themselves in that position. When

it comes to children, when it comes to a human trafficking, we want to

make sure we have the most competent resources at our disposal

to be able to tackle that particular hideous types of crime.

What we're against is a second police force, there would not be

accountable through the Chief Constable, through the police pawn

or any of the other accountability mechanisms. They will have more

power than the PSNI. They will have the power of secrecy. We have

already had that, we have had the force within the force, what we do

not want is a force outside are forced and the way this is going,

and the fact that the British Home Secretary says that she will expand

that power, poised to that expansive s the I E in the future.

We are not against the NCA, Bob what we are for his pattern. What

will happen under the present legislation is that those

protections and that accountability under the Patten Report will be

under serious threat. He says we're anti- British. There is nothing

anti-British in saying that there is a lack of accountability. It to

meet picture Hitchens, who is a well-known columnist in the Daily

Mail, he says that this legislation, put forward in the House of Commons

and the House of Lords, is in fact anti-British. Why does he say that,

because the concept of the National, single, unitary police service in

Britain is anathema to the British tradition. How can members of Sinn

Fein and the SDLP justify to their constituents writing off the line

and more tolerable to the activities of human traffickers, of

child abusers and tax a Vegas? That is the society that you want for

Northern Ireland. Tomorrow, up we will hear pious words about

internet safety from the same people who want to tie our hands

behind our backs when it comes to fighting those crimes. Many of us

will have watched the ball there -- the movies of the posse chasing

abundance through the American Wild West, and they come to the line in

this and other have to stop, and the going gets away scot-free,

because they have no jurisdiction across the border. The NCA

themselves, and make no apology for saying this, that they will not

subject themselves, that they will not be accountable. If it is not

legislated that they are fully accountable like any other police

constable operating in this jurisdiction, then it is not worth

the paper assets has written on in terms of a protocol. The NCA will

be in a position to assist our crime fighting was fitting within

the police architecture that applies. The director-general not

have the powers of a constable in Northern Ireland and we have local

accountability arrangements, for example the statutory obligation to

attend a policing board once a year. He has agreed to meet the justice

committee, if requested. The day and member of the S T L P

recommends the Daily Mail to me for some to Le Bas, renew will stop

laughing -- the SDLP. All of the points were visible to the

Executive and would have been discussed by the Justice committee.

I do think we need to cut the reality of what has been achieved.

The Justice Minister, David Ford. The motion supporting the

introduction of the NCA in Northern Ireland was subject to a cross-

community vote and fell because of nationalist opposition. With me now

is the political correspondent of the News Letter, Sam McBride. Are a

fascinating debate on the floor of the chamber. Also interesting Sue

who was watching the public gallery. It was common we had Keith Bristow,

the Chief Executive from the National Crime Agency in England.

He was here for a briefing and stayed to watch. It is very unusual

to have senior police officers sitting in the public gallery

watching Stormont debates on a security issue. It shows how

significant this issue is and what implications of. There are concerns

in some quarters that people in Northern Ireland could be exposed

in the NCA does not operate here. How real teasing this concerns are?

The fact is that the NCA is basically set up to tackle ordinary

crime, at the things that every country has, things like drugs,

people trafficking, smuggling of weapons. It is not targeted at

things like the distant republican threat or anything terrorist

related. - Patrick dissident republican. It does seem that if

Northern Ireland is not covered by this, we will have to find some

other way to cover that. It was suggested that perhaps more than on

should go after its own agency there would cut the intelligence

and try to work with international partners. Some of the union is were

very dismissive of that. What about the politics of this? There must

have a say that we made it very clear by him we were signing up.

Others so there must lists and in his to time at this when they

agreed to the devolution of paid for it. One side things they have

got one thing, the other side things they have got something

slightly different and it suits the Government for that remain as a

grey area until something like this blows up. Certainly the

nationalists de facto supported SOCA. But this issue has given them

a platform, I suppose, to oppose its successor. What happens now?

Nobody really knows but there is the possibility that Westminster

should effectively ignored the devolution process and impose it

over the heads of the Executive. New air routes to Canada and

Germany are badly needed to boost tourism and investment, the

Enterprise Minister told the chamber today. First though, Arlene

Foster was asked about how Northern Ireland might tap into a major

tourism initiative in the Republic. What preparation has the minister

undertaken to ensure that Northern Ireland can maximise the potential

tourist gains from The Gathering? have said many times in this House

that The Gathering is something that has been brought to fruition

by the government of the Republic of Ireland. It is not just about

tourism, it is about attracting inward come first but, it is a

whole idea about bringing people back to the Republic for the sheer.

It tourists come to the Republic of Ireland to run this year we are

more than happy to accommodate and in Northern Ireland when they come

to visitors. We will then to come and experience for themselves what

Northern Ireland has to offer. this event, The Gathering,. Any

other series of events in neighbouring countries, would be

intent of the Northern Ireland Tourist Board to act a bit of kit

people to see if it is possible when they come to Dublin that they

might visit Northern Ireland? is what we have been asking tourist

island to concentrate on. We you are saying that if there are

Katharine's across the Republic of Ireland that they were will kicks

boots the Northern Herman. If it is a golf Katherine, that they

experience all leak opportunities and so there we market our cells to

gain business from those visitors. The minister said Blatter people

come and one to come of them we would accommodate them. Could I ask

the Minister whether she would encourage local event organisers to

use The Gathering website to promote their events. A course

there are at liberty to promote their own events and on on been to

stop anybody from promoting their events by him mechanism. Can I ask

the minister to detail the work that she is doing to put pressure

on tourism Ireland to promote and chief more flights into Northern

Ireland's airports? This is a matter dear to my heart, the whole

subject of access because at present we any have in power and be

the flight to New up and we do need to have more international flights

and, indeed, more European flights coming into both of the airport. It

is something I have told tourism Ireland I will be asked them about

every month for an update because I think it is something we need to

deliver on. Given that we had by competitive advantage with pair

passengers duty set at zero for those countries. Looking to Europe,

I have a key objective in opening a direct service between Northern

Ireland and a major city in Germany, which you think we need to adjust

in terms of tourism but also for investment purposes, as well. I

have made no secret of the fact that the very much bleeper we need

to have a Canadian connection brought back again, for tourism

reasons, but also from an investment and does this point of

$:/STARTFEED. Questions to the Environment Minister next. Alex

Attwood dealt with several issues, but first he was asked for his Plan

B if electoral boundaries aren't published before the next Local

Government lesss. I don't have a contingency because I've been

advised by the London Government that they'll complete their

processs in good time in order to have an election in June of next

year in the event that the processs are not completed, an issue will

arise, but I'm not working on that basis, the Government's not working

on that basis and I hope nobody else is.

Can the minister give us an assurance that any proposed

assurances that ministers may have to the boundaries -- changes that

the ministers may have to the boundaries, it will be a decision

for the London Government and therefore we can be assured that no

unilateral gerrymandering, such as what's happened with retail, will

happen? I'm tempted Mr Deputy speaker to remind the member that

the reason why there was political uncertainty, doubt and delay in

respect of Local Government ostensibly in the last mandate was

why - because members had issues around what boundaries were. THE

SPEAKER: Can I ask members, please, no dialogue across the chamber. We

have a system here that seems to work well for most people and it

should work for most people. wouldn't necessarily use the word

gerrymandering, but certainly there was a lot of political interest in

the previous mandate and no, the process being taken forward by Mr

McKenzie and the London Government is a process reserved to them under

the devolution settlement. Therefore, there'll be no political

interference, I trust, but obviously the public and political

parties and others can input into that process a consultation. There

is no unilateral action to be taken by me in respect of any matter. I

act loyal to Government policy, planning policy, regional

developing separate jifplt it's others acting out with those issues.

Given the current difficulties around the flags issue, would the

minister anticipate to bring forward legislation within the

Local Government that the flag be flown at every civic centre in

Northern Ireland? The member raises a serious matter. Let's be clear

about it, the issue of flags, emblems and symbols will only be

settled when all parties and political leaders uphold the

principle of parity of consent and esteem. What does that mean? It

means in this part of the world, because of the political order we

are all meant to have embraced, things will look and feel different

than they were before. That is the outworking of respect for

difference. That does not mean, Mr Deputy Speaker, that any one person

or community has lost or won. It's the outworking of the principle

parity of es seem. As Mr Elliott knows, before Christmas, I raised

with a group, that is part of the structures going forward, that that

issue, flags, emblems and symbols, might be something that we'd have

to capture in the work of our PA. If that is necessary, I don't think

we should shirk from it. At this moment, it's not ground that I

think we need to go on to. But if it is ground that we have to go on

to, I think we should. Can I take this opportunity to welcome the

announcement made this morning, minister, on the dereliction,

monies which will be going around the South Down area in particular.

I wondered what your views were to the location in question that it's

not a particular tourist area or they are not down for or due to

host a major event. What would be your views on that? All the bids

assessed came in. One of those bids included events in a particular

area during the course of the year that might have led to the

conclusion that money should be spent. That's why money went to

Derry and Portrush and Portstuart that.'s why money is going to

Fermanagh and Lisburn because it's the European City of sport. It's a

factor but not the only factor. My view, this intervention, whether

there is or is not events in an area, major events as opposed to

the annual run of events, whether or not there is major profile

events, I think this scheme works in terms of stabilising local

trading conditions, maybe encouraging small business

opportunities. As a fund for that purpose, never mind the events, it

seems to be worthwhile. How often do you see your doctor?

Stormont's Health Committee wants it to be mandatory for patients to

have a check up every year even if they are not sick. The chair was

influenced by a visit to reform the health care system in Cuba. She

said Northern Ireland has a lot to learn from the Cuban system.

heart of the Cuban system is the family doctor who is an important

part of the community that they're serving. At any point in time, the

family doctor can provide an overview of the general health of

all of his or her patients and one of the reasons for this level of

knowledge is because they carry out annual health checks. This allows

them to get to know their patients, get to know the history of the

patient and allows them to identify health problems at an early stage.

The committee fully accepts that some parts of the Cuban health

system cannot be directly transferred to ours. However, the

focus on Cuba on prevention, education, intervention and primary

care with a vision which the minister in the department has set

out in transforming your care. The BMA also say that annual health

checks would be a waste of resources needed for sick people.

Again, I believe they're missing the point. We want people to come

into contact with medical professionals before they're sick

so that illness can be prevented and interventions can be made early.

GP annual health checks, as proposed in this motion, certainly

look very good in theory. We all want to promote good health,

prevent hill-health and detect disease at an early stage. However,

I'm not convinced yet that providing annual health checks, as

proposed here today, is the most effective way of achieving the

desired outcomes. Having spoken to a number of gps on this matter,

issues which have continuously been flagged up as potential barriers to

being able to provide satisfactory annual health checks have been the

time involved, funding, space and a workforce levels -- the workforce

levels. It's important we listen to the professionals, including the

British Medical Association, who're dealing with these matters daily.

What the BMA conveniently forgot to mention was that that was based on

studies carried out in 1963, 1965, 1967 and 1969. The most up-to-date

study which was reported on in the report was in 1992 which is 21

years ago. Clearly, diagnostics have moved on by leaps and bounds

in the intervening two decades. Therefore it's mischievous of the

BMA to quote information which is clearly out-of-date and not

relevant to today's arguments. appreciate that this is a committee

motion. I am somewhat sceptical as to what is recommended. What in

theory will be good in practice. The chair mentioned correspondence

we have received from the BMA recently to the committee and while

we may not all agree with what was contained in it, we must listen to

the experts in the field. members sat on the committee when

this was discussed. I'm sympathetic to members who have the best

interests of patients central to their thinking. After all, we have

dental check-ups every six months. However, in weighing up the pros

and cons of the annual GP check-ups and common-sense and intuitive

initiatives, we have to look at evidence to inform policy decisions.

The most recent research on general checks indicates they may not be as

beneficial as some members might believe. The evidence doesn't

indicate the reduction in mobility, the risk of illness or mortality.

The Health Minister Edwin Poots. Mrs Ramsay is with us now. You are

a fan of the Cuban system and the DUP member went with you on that

visit. Would that work in Northern Ireland? I think the vision that

Cuba has is fine for anyone. I know there are some concerns around

people when they talk about wages and things like that and that's

something we need to look at. What I was interested in seeing and we

got the invitation to go to the international health conference,

was that the family doctor, the family are the local medics,

they're at the heart of communities so they are part of the community,

they are not just there to service, they are part of the community.

Have you costed what it would take to have the mandatory annual check-

up with your GP in Northern Ireland? Have you got any ballpark

figures? No, but what I do know is that doctors and GPs in general get

paid per patient that's on their list. So if we are talking about

early prevention, Cuba spend around $400 per patient, we spend around

$4,000 per patient and Cubas system is better than ours. The committee

is saying, get in at an early age and look at it. It fits in exactly

with what transforming your care wants to do. Take everything away

from the care sector and get into local outcomes and earlier for

patients. Are you saying you think it could be done without

necessarily a significant increase in costs?

As I say, my information is that doctors get paid per patient anyway

so, as part of the patient journey, we should be bringing people in for

annual health checks. Some people are sceptical. The Health Minister

didn't look like he was going to be persuaded today and quoted research

that suggests that you are not really comparing like with like and

it wouldn't necessarily work for Northern Ireland. It's an

interesting idea, it's a novel idea, you have had an interesting

experience in Cuba, but in practical terms will anything come

of this? Sfpblgts we have asked the minister to give us a copy of the

research. The research came from the 60s and 70s, pwhu we are saying

transforming care today will have a radical approach to deliver our

service to fit in with the new fit and well strategy, let's get in

there early, let's get in there with prevention and allow

interventions to take place at GP level. Some people might say on a

simple level, if you are sick, you go to the doctor at the moment, if

you don't, you don't waste their time. The key thing is, we don't

want people to be waiting until they are sick. There is evidence to

show a patient might get sick, we are in there at an earlier time

before we go down the route of giving people medication if they go

there before they're sick. Thank you very much.

If you are a regular viewer of Stormont Today you may have spotted

several MLAs using electronic devices while listening to debates.

The speaker put his foot down on this new trend today. I want to

return to a subject that I ruled on some time ago. It's about the use

of electronic devices in this chamber. There is an increase of

use of these within the chamber and my ruling then was very, very clear

that electronic devices should be used responsibly and without

distracting other members or interfering with the business of

the House. I have to say, I've watched around the chamber and

there are more and more members who continue to come into the chamber

and who continually do nothing else but use their electronic devices. I

would ask members just to revisit my ruling at that time where I was

absolutely clear that if members feel they have to use electronic

devices in the chamber, they should do it very much in a respectable

manner. I have to say, some members, some members are not doing that at

this minute in time. The speaker pulling no punches.