10/09/2012 Stormont Today

Hello, and welcome to the first programme in the new series of

Stormont Today. And after the summer break it didn't take our

MLAs long to get back to business. Recent events in north Belfast

occupied the mind of the SDLP leader Alasdair McDonnell who

accused the Social Development Minister, Nelson McCausland, of

breaching his Ministerial Pledge of Office. During recent weeks, the

reactions of the DSD Minister to events in North Belfast have

brought this House into serious disrepute by failing to give - the

Minister failed to give full support to the upholding of law and

order, and to my mind Minister Nelson McCausland has clearly

reached article 1.4 and 1.5 of the Ministerial Pledge of Office.

Money matters came to the fore when the former economics teacher Sammy

Wilson used the VAT debate to serve up a financial lesson. One of the

central precepts that you've always got to remember is cerebsu parabus

all other things being equal, and of course, all other things don't

stay equal because we're living and working in this economy. Sammy

Wilson demonstrating that Latin and economics can mix. Our political

reporter Stephen Walker is with me in the studio. There were further

details released about the development of the Maze site and

the people who'll be responsible for driving that process on. That's

right. The Maze closed 12 years ago, and since then it has been a

subject of controversy. Today we have the names of 11 people who

have agreed to sit on this corporation. The chairman will be

Terrance Brannigan, a well-known businessman, chairman of Glentorn

football club and in the past he has been involved with the CBI.

Interestingly, he's a member of the DUP. His party membership was

raised by some Stormont sources this morning as if it was going to

be an issue but when Martin McGuinness came out he said it

wasn't. Like-wise, the DUP didn't object when it became clear a

former Sinn Fein councillor, Joe O'Donnell, would be on the board.

On the board as well is a former police Assistant Chief Constable.

We've now got the names. Suppose this really marks another staging

post in this entire proposal. had the SDLP leader Dr Alasdair

McDonnell has accused Nelson McCausland of breaching the

Ministerial Code. That's right. Obviously, recent events in North

Belfast very much to the fore in Alasdair McDonnell's mind, and this

relates to these events that were taking place in North Belfast

across the summer, and he brought this issue to the floor of the

Assembly, and this is what Alasdair McDonnell had to say. The Minister

failed to give full support to the upholding of law and order, and to

my mind, Minister Nelson McCausland has clearly breached Article 1.4

and 1.5 of the Ministerial Pledge of Office. Mr Speaker, is there any

way in which you can take some action and sort this situation out?

I rule, Mr Speaker, I have no role in deciding whether a pledge of

office by any particular Minister, which even includes the Ministerial

Code of the conduct has been breached - a member will know these

are complex issues. They are difficult issues, but certainly, as

Speaker, I have no role whatsoever, but I'll be keen, certainly, to

talk to the member outside the chamber on the complex issues on

whether a Minister has broken a pledge of office or his role as a

Minister within the executive. we know what Nelson McCausland

makes of that accusation? Well, my understanding is that he's quite

relaxed about all this. He contends that he did not break the

Ministerial Code. He says he did not endorse civil disobedience. The

DUP say their focus is not on debating, in their words, the

minutiae of all of this, but they say their focus is on finding a

resolution to the entire parading issue. For now, thank you very much.

Tourism dominated enterprise questions. The Minister Arlene

Foster being quizzed on everything from golfing visitors to

genealogical tourists. But first the Minister was asked about access

to high-speed broadband and mobile phone coverage in rural areas.

Building on its previous investments, my department is

currently scoping two projects aimed at further enhancing the

region's telecommunications capabilities by ensuring access to

broadband services of at least two megabits per second to all premises

and ill proving access to 3G mobile services. Under the proposed 3G

mobile project my department aims to reduce the premises in Northern

Ireland with no conch from any operator from the current 11 of

11.7% to at least the UK average of .9%. Could I thank the Minister for

Her answer, and I'm well aware there has been a lot of money

invested in broadband, but Minister, could I ask if you intend to carry

out an assessment on those firms that have received money to provide

broadband in rural Ireland? Because clearly, it's not happening, and

know some of the firms I have dealt with - and I would like an

assessment of that also, could you indicate how much more money is

there available to be allocated to address this in rural broadband?

Any company that receives Government money are always

assessed after the end of the contract to see if they have

delivered in respect of the targets that were set in the terms of

reference, and that's exactly what will happen if the member is

referring to the sixth call in - for on-wave as has happened with

all the other companies as well. We will continue to fill that gap. The

member knows that we have been working very hard in respect of

this. In its latest Ofcom research, it estimates that 94% of households

could access a super-fast broadband service of 30 megabit per second or

better, and I think it's important that we benchmark that against

what's happening in the Republic of Ireland, where DCNR and Dublin

estimate just over 20% of households currently have access of

a service of 10 megabits, so things are a lot better in Northern

Ireland in respect of broadband access that doesn't take away from

the fact that there's more that we can and will be doing in the future.

I am quite happy to say to the member that we are accessing money

from the UK in respect of broadband, but unfortunately because we were

so far ahead of other parts of the UK, we're now being penalised in

that respect of that, and we're not getting as much money as I believe

we should we should be getting to follow up with these projects.

However, we'll still keep fighting that battle. There has been a lot

achieved today in respect of broadband, but there's still more

to do. There is potential to develop geneological tourism

through the promotion of Ulster Scots particularly in the United

States, where we have targeted this specific segment through tourism

Ireland's extensive marketing programme. I also recently launched

a free app that'll help Northern Ireland harness the tourism

potential of the 30 million people worldwide who have Ulster Scots

roots. Our tourism bodies continue to engage with the Ulster

Historical Foundation, the Ulster Agency, the Orange Order and other

bodies in Northern Ireland with a view to ensuring all aspects of

their culture and heritage are reflecting. Bearing in mind an

unemployment rate of around 66,000 people out of work, does the

Minister believe there are other measures she can take currently in

respect of any anticipation of a reduction in corporation tax which

is looking very slow, when she thinks she can put other measures

in place, and how much of a reduction does she anticipate

seeing in that 66,000 unemployed? Well, if I knew how much of a

reduction was happening to the unemployment register, I would have

a crystal ball in front of me, Mr Deputy Speaker. We all want to see

the reduction of unemployment. This House are all united in relation to

that and can I say to the member, Invest Northern Ireland have

informed me this week of a comprehensive plan they have to

work with a lot of our indigenous companies, and right across the UK,

in particular, we have seen a flattening out, indeed, a

depression - and going back into recession over this past number of

months, and there is a great need to work with our local firms to try

to give them the capacity to employ more people, and I am pleased to

say that we have seen that right across Northern Ireland with small

companies who are increasing their employment, and I'm very pleased to

say that we're being able to support them. Can I ask her that in

the context of promoting jobs and golf tourism in Northern Ireland to

take account of the views of a number of traders who had expressed

concern that the spectators when they arrive and go into the

tournament unfortunately were unable to avail of many of the

sights and shops of Portrush until the tournament closed to take

account of that when negotiating and dealing with incoming tour

operators to promote all of Northern Ireland and its tourist

infrastructure when events like that are on. I thank the member for

his supplemental question. Of course, that issue has been raised

with me before by him and indeed by others. I think the key to all of

this was that the Irish Open was a phenomenal success. I recognise for

some of the traders during the actual tournament they didn't get

what the retail experience that they thought they were going to

have. But I do have to say to the member that since then Portrush has

experienced a renewal - a revival, if you like, and a lot of people

have said to me as they have gone to Portrush over the summer that

they really think that the place has been transformed, and a lot of

work went into the area before the Irish Open, and I think the legacy

will be people visiting Portrush now and, rightly so, Mr Deputy

Speaker, I did spend some of my summer holiday in Portrush on the

north coast, and it was a very, very enjoyable experience, but the

important thing is, the fact that we were able to bring record crowds

into Northern Ireland for the Irish Open - and in fact, it was double

the attendance of the Scottish Open. I think that puts it into context.

The Enterprise Minister, Arlene Foster, flying the flag for

Portrush. Now, talking about tourism, should Northern Ireland

get a reduced rate of VAT to help some sectors of the industry here?

DUP members are calling for the Executive to press the Treasury to

do just that. Here's one of the idea's proposers, the DUP's Simon

Hamilton. There is a demand to look at things

that can be done to assist the sector. One suggested solution is

to reduce the rate of VAT for the sector and some tourism-related

services. This is an issue that's been pushed by the likes of the

pubs of Ulster, by the hotel sector and indeed by others, and I have

been encouraged by the contacts I have had over the last number of

days from people from the restaurant sector, from pubs and

from hotels. The context of this is there was a unanimous decision

taken by all 27 EU Finance Ministers who used - were just for

VAT in restaurants and catering. Hotels have been able to reduce

their VAT - our Government have been able to reduce VAT since 1975.

Those who would say that our Government at Westminster aren't

interested in this subject - our Government at Westminster

representatives in the EU voted for this. If they think it's good for

the whole of the EU, then you would think they might be interested in

it for the UK itself. 21 states have lower VAT for hotels, and some

13 have availed of this ability to reduce for the hospitality sector

and have a lower VAT for food. The simple question is, why would so

many EU member states pursue a policy of lower VAT for hospitality

and tourism-related services if indeed it didn't work and have a

positive impact on their economy? You look at Germany - they have 7%

for food and hotels. French have 5.5% for restaurants and hotels.

They have seen an increased number of apprenticeship, in the number of

jobs. They have seen wages go up as well and staff turnover go down,

but we don't have to go do France, Germany or any of the mainland

European countries to see the benefit of a reduced benefit of a

reduced VAT to the hospitality sector, we just need to look south

of the border to see the experience they have had. It has been

estimated a 5.5% decrease in VAT could increase jobs in the

hospitality sector. I note caution. In taking this forward, the

Assembly and Executive must think carefully which direction the

policy should be developed. We shouldn't be seeking a race to the

bottom against the Government in Dublin. We should instead be

seeking further and deeper cooperation on this and other

tourism-related matters with the Government in the rest of the

island. I believe while this is very welcome. It's very topical and

has a lot of support from the hospitality industry, it does lack

ambition and demonstrate lax of confidence among the proposers. It

lacks ambition in it merely seeks to lobby the British Treasury to

act on behalf of our businesses and tourism sector. I can only guess

this is due to the lack of our proposalers to make decisions. What

we should be doing is being more ambitious. We need to clearly set

forward the argument to transfer relevant fiscal powers so this

chamber could make decision and not What is the impact of this? Many

people have asked this. Do we know it would have a positive a impact?

I suppose with all of these things, when the you change and economic

variable, whether it is a tax rate or spending or whatever, and there

are a lot of other things happening in the economy, it is not always

possible to identify the cause and effect for the size of the effect.

But what we do know is that a number of governments across Europe

have changed the rate of Zainab on tourist product. -- of VAT. And

there has been a change. Let me give you an example. In France, the

rate was changed in July 2009 to 5.5% and the economic statistics

indicate that as a result, probably about 15,000 bankruptcy is were

avoided, 30,000 job losses were avoided, 35,000 apprenticeships

were created, and 25,000 jobs were created in 2010. You could argue

there were other factors which influenced those. But the change in

the tax rate was bound to have contributed to those particular

statistics. And we could go on and give examples in Germany, the Irish

Republic, etc. It is not an exact science as -- and as I ate used to

teach economics, one of the central precepts is all other things being

equal and of course all other things do not state the court. We

are living and working in a dynamic economy. -- things do not state be

cold. But evidence shows there is a positive effect. Can you measure

it? Probably not. The calls in this Assembly adding to the debate going

on within the Coalition government and outside, this call today is it

worth while call. It adds to the debate.

The Finance Minister, Sammy Wilson. Well, one of the proposers of the

VAT motion is the DUP's David McIveen, and he joins me now.

Interesting idea, but not likely to cut much ice with Treasury

officials, surely? I think this is going to be a

process. If Northern Ireland can take the lead on this issue, I am

very confident that other devolved assemblies or take a similar

opinion and a united approach will put pressure which on the Treasury.

You think this will be a change for everybody across the UK, not just

Northern Ireland? Correct, because they Iraq European rules in place

when it comes to deviation of VAT rates, so this would be UK wide.

could cost as many in Northern Ireland, couldn't it? We have -- we

have to look at the bigger picture, 3,300 jobs could be created at a

Conservative estimate. A new job creation does not come from nowhere.

Initiatives are going on with the First Minister and the Finance

Minister and Enterprise Minister. But financial stimulus is an

effective way of creating jobs. Bocchino how painful the process

has been surrounding the efforts to change the rate of corporation tax

-- but you know. That has been an agonising debate for many years. So

if this happens, it is going to be in the next Parliament. In it will

take time, we accept that. But we accept corporation tax was an issue

around the land border and this is also around the land border, but

remember this initiative will be a nationwide initiative and we are

very confident we can take this message to the Treasury. And will

that be support for this in Wales, England and Scotland? If they can

see the benefits, that is important. We will see!

Well, the summer has come and gone, but not the debate over National

Parks! The question of creating National Parks here for the first

time is still very much alive, and only last week, public meetings

once again demonstrated the strong feelings generated by the issue.

Today, it was raised in the Assembly, with the Environment

Minister being asked if he is now changing his mind.

Listen to the Minister replied to the original question, and having a

listening to him having a reply to the supplementary, do I take it you

are telling of this Assembly today you are not proceeding with a

national park? What I said and I repeated as that I am taking stock.

That is not saying I am not take -- I am not proceeding. It is my

obligation to hear all the voices when it comes to the issue of

National Parks, and there are many and different frissons. In one part,

it is clear or legitimate concerns have been raised by the farming

community. In the same part of that area, a legitimate support for the

principle of National Parks has been coming forward from the

commercial community. So there are many voices when it comes to

National Parks. But I would be reckless as if I did not listen and

-- if I did not listen to what people were saying. So far from

abandoning the proposal, I want to have a conversation with all those

for and against over the next few weeks, John Donne that I will make

a judgment on what my best advice is to the Executive and to this

House. But given the scale of what our people are facing, do we not

have an obligation to forensically interrogate any and all opportunity

to grow drops in this part of the world? I give it a scale -- given

the scale of worklessness that faces this part of the world, do we

not have an obligation to recognise that given the scale and beauty of

our natural environment, there are opportunities for heritage led

development that we need to take over the next five or 10 years, on

whatever the court or expression that has, perhaps that is the

challenge for me as a minister and 2 us. I hope whatever way we do it,

we measure up to that task. The Environment Minister on the

continuing debate over the rights and wrongs of National Parks. The

traumatic subject of suicide was very much on the agenda at Stormont

today. Families and community groups spent most of the day here,

lobbying MLAs and raising awareness through workshops and entertainment,

inside and outside the building. To mark World Suicide Prevention Day

MLAs also discussed the issue in the Chamber.

I was speaking sum up -- to someone yesterday and were shocked to see

we saw a rate of more than four suicides per day in 2012. Those

that take their lives suffer from up a wider problems, financial

difficulties, broken relationships or loneliness and isolation is. But

what remains is a shattered family. In my own constituency, at present

this motion and I want to pay tribute to the excellent services

in my constituency to help those in despair or contemplating suicide.

In particular, what we deem to be our 4th emergency service, search

and rescue. Over 600 people took their remind us in 2010 and 2011. -

- their own lives. That is 600 families who have lost a loved one,

communities that have lost talent and potential and part of their

legacy. We in this House must stand with those communities and a flat

as much support and preventative services, one life is too many.

we must also bear in mind that the specific circumstances of every

person who becomes suicidal are unique. Front-line preventive

treatment to care for people in emotional despair will and must

remain essential. Voluntary and community groups have a vital role

in delivering this from my support. They are often the port -- the

first port of call for individuals and these families facing these

daunting circumstances. This was published in evidence last year

showing 70% of people who died from suicide in the previous decade in

Northern Ireland had not been in touch with mental health services.

So clearly a lot of people in serious emotional crisis are not

accessing statutory mental health services, and this is something

that needs to be looked at. It is also a reason it is vital for at

the statutory and community sector to work together to provide suicide

prevention suicide services that reach out to all those at risk.

The vexed issue of suicide, prompting a great deal of agreement

among MLAs this afternoon. Well, today may have been the first

sitting in the Chamber for MLAs since their summer break, but

committee meetings restarted last week.

Up for discussion at the OFMDFM Committee was the planned inquiry

into institutional abuse, and some groups are unhappy, saying the

inquiry doesn't go far enough, as we'll hear now in our weekly look

at committee business. The commission is at a loss to

understand why it with regard to any living victim there is a need

to fix instalment. We recognise with regard to dead victims, and

you have to draw a line. F but where a victim is living, it is the

commission's view that victim's case should be embraced up by the

mandate of the inquiry, so we would be of the opinion that with regard

to living victims, a date should not be said, but simply an

acknowledgement that if the victim is still alive, regardless of that

be before or after 1945, baby given their full right of audience to the

inquiry -- the baby given. To the wider issues of sexual abuse

outside the constitutional context, we share the view that this is an

issue that needs to be taken account of. Sexual abuse of

children did not just happen in institutional care settings, it

also occurred in many other social contexts that have to be taken

account of as a matter of international human rights law.

Facts nevertheless we consider it is difficult to take account of

those who mentioned sexual abuse in the current legislative project and

we do not think it would be wise or prudent to withdraw the bill to

widen the bill. But rather, we consider that a separate piece of

legislation would be required to deal with those elements of sexual

abuse there are not currently covered, elements that would

embrace any other forms of sexual Fabrice -- abuse that take place

outside the home. The to terms of human rights abuses, which we

consider these two have been, are high -- do have a right to

restitution, at rehabilitation, etc. -- victims of human rights abuses.

I cannot sit at this committee, I have never come into this building

without mentioning, what can we do for the people who have not made it

this far? The people for whom already this has been too much and

they have taken their own lives. Is there something, is their

consideration for their relatives? For their children. And I think...

And they are talking about opening this out like a parachute. We give

consideration to the people in work in institutions and we give as much

consideration to them and their families and their surviving

relatives. In the same way that we would get it. And again, I would be

clear about the fact that it would not be at Asda and -- that it would

not be an extra, it would be the right. Not just a consideration.

if we are going to acknowledge that we understand down generations,

then of course we would have to. The Ulster Unionist leader Mike

Nesbitt. Stephen Walker is with me for a

final word. Stephen, a busy day here today and a busy few days

ahead. It has been very busy today and it will be a very busy

political agenda over the next few days. Tomorrow, there will be a

protest at Stormont involving trade unions over the issue of welfare

reform. That has been very controversial. On Wednesday, aware

air connections will come under the spotlight at Westminster when

members of the Northern Ireland affairs committee look at the issue

of air links from Northern Ireland to other parts of the UK. Evidence

will be given as part of an investigation into airline strategy.

And as we move towards the dark autumn night, a reminder of the

great sporting summer we have had because on Thursday night, there