12/02/2013 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up on the programme... In a

special joint committee session, MLAs Appledore horsemeat

controversy 0.2 fraudulent activity. - -- MLAs are told the horsemeat

controversy points to fraudulent activity.

We will hear reaction from chair of the Agriculture Committee Paul Frew.

And the Finance Minister has a warning for those who want more

fiscal independence. There is discussion of breaking away from

decisions made at Westminster, but he's actually ensure we are better

Showing a united front in dealing with the meat crisis, Stormont's

Health and Agriculture Committees held a joint meeting today to

examine how horsemeat got into the food chain. Members heard from the

days experts, including the director of the Food Standards

Agency. Gerry McCurdy said horsemeat was not on his

organisation's radar until late last year when authorities in the

Republic began to test by it. when you look at the price

associated with horse meat against beef, it does then become obvious

that a horse going into the system, that fraudulent aspect is

definitely present. Paul Frew chairs the Agriculture Committee

and joins me now. Thank you for joining us. Why do you think

horsemeat was not on the radio are off the Food Standards Agency and a

late last year? They have said to us that their main element is food

safety. They do not necessarily test for species of meat. I suppose,

because we have such a traceable and good system in Northern Ireland,

which has world-class and second to none, I suppose it was not on their

radar. With the benefit of hindsight, it seems so blindingly

obvious that should have been. and as far as I know, tests were

done in the past with regards to meat exported to America. So it has

been done to a certain degree, but this has caught everyone unawares.

It needs to be investigated. That is why I was keen to investigate

and interrogate the information on the investigation currently going

on, the extent of that, who is being investigated, what is being

tested, and what the results will be. Did you get a degree of

reassurance today from those experts, who wear before that.

Hearing of the committee, were getting to grips with finding out

what was happening. -- who were before that joint hearing of the

committee, were getting to grips with finding out what was happening.

Everyone will have to inspect their meat which they currently have. I

was keen to find out how that would be input into the FSA and what

determinations will come out of this. What will we know? We need to

know the truth, all of the truth and we need to see how we repair

the damage. Repairing the damage is important. As far as we know, this

is not a food scare? None the less, it is an issue of consumer

confidence. Yes. What you say to people who have real concerns about

buying some of the products which have clearly been affected by this

controversy? I am keen to separate the issues. The produce farmers

grow in their fields is traceable, from gate to plate, very good

produce, grass-fed, fresh meat, there is nothing wrong with it. It

is fully traceable and accountable. Separates that from imported

processed meat. And the meat contained within convenience

packaging. That is absolutely right to distinguish those two, but

because you mad does not always know which of those two options he

or she is purchasing, particularly in ready meals. It is all to do

with Labour leader. What does it say we are eating on the label? --

it is all to do with the label. That is why we should be reassured

to go to bridges and ask where the meat is from. Any butcher should be

able to tell you. That is the answer? As far as I am concerned.

But other issues you will want more detailed answers on. You'll want to

hear from these experts again? has to be ongoing. We need to make

sure we know exactly what is on everybody's plate in the future. We

cannot have another situation like this. The industry will recover and

we will get through this all right. That is because of the traceable

system and how good produce and our system is. But we must not go back

to the unknown. All through, we leave it there. Thank you. -- Paul

Frew. The Employment and Learning

Minister outlined changes to the scheme which supports students to

stay on at school. Stephen Farry told the Assembly that the

Education Maintenance Allowance will be better targeted to those

who really need it. This means that payments of �10 and �20 will be

scrapped and instead a single payment of �30 per week will be

paid to students from low income households.

The EMA scheme was jointly introduced in September of 2004

from the Department of Employment and Learning and the Department of

Education. The main Papiss Cisse to encourage young people from lower

income backgrounds to remain in education at school or college. EMA

supports a key programme for Government priorities to close the

gap in educational under- achievement in those who are least

that most disadvantaged and improve the participation of young people

in education. At present, it consists of weekly payments of �30,

�20 or �10, depending on household income. And bonus payments

totalling �300 per annum. Findings from a recent joint review of the

highlighted the scheme was not as effectively targeted as it could be.

Over 60% of students receiving it indicated they would have remained

in education even if they had not received it. On the other hand, the

review identified two cases where EMA made a real difference in terms

of pretension. I think it is important to say that, from the

outset, we were committed to the retention of this EMA and were

determined that young people from lower income families would

continue to be assisted to stay in education and training.

Nevertheless, good governance meant that we had to address the issue

concerning how effectively the current scheme was targeted. A

number of key findings emerged from the review and consultation. The

majority of respondents wanted EMA retained in some form and were in

favour off of a single tape -- of a single payment of �30 per week.

They should be better targeted to more effectively support families

most in need. To that end, it has determined that the �20.10 pounds

bands should be withdrawn and be replaced by a single band of �30. -

- that the �10, �20 bands should be I am disappointed to receive the

statement in this manner. There is no record that the committee can

find that we have received a summary of the consultations that

were provided back to the committee, as is normal practice. I am quite

sure the committee would have wanted to talk about this matter in

some detail. It is certainly a matter of public interest and I am

frankly shocked that it should be brought to this Assembly as

accomplished. This is not the appropriate way to go about making

major changes of financial implications for the people of

Northern Ireland. The committee should have been properly consulted,

would have consulted properly, would have engaged, and I suspect

members your present would be disappointed in the way this has

been handled. This is a decision by the Executive. The decision was

taken last week at the Executive, which we are reporting to the House

today. As such, this is the first opportunity we have had to report

one of the decisions that have been taken in terms of an executive

decision. It is appropriate that it come to the Assembly to make that

announcement. We are happy to be here and to answer questions on the

particular issue. There was a public consultation on this issue

during the course of 2012, which ran for 14 weeks. At no stage did

the committee express any view on that consultation or seek to give

any views to the committee. The chair of the committee, I suppose,

is probably the least person in this chamber who would wish to take

direction from anybody, least alone those in his own party. This is

good news for students and young people in Northern Ireland. We

should not forget that. Employment and Learning Minister

Stephen Farry. More than 200 road signs were vandalised here in the

last year, the Regional Development Minister told the chamber during

question time this afternoon. Danny Kennedy said the money spent

repairing signs could be used for improving road safety. First, he

took a question on future responsibility for parking. Are you

still keen to see off street parking devolved to local councils?

You made reference to something I am not keen to see happen. Are you

keen to see off street parking devolved to local councils? I thank

you for your supplementary question and confirm I am indeed keen to see

off street parking. I think local Government and councils, in

whatever shape, could perform a very useful duty and service on

behalf of local ratepayers to manage it. And it would give their

councils the authority to decide on thorny issues like charging and

rates of charge and penalty Charge Notices. I am very interested in

that. And I will continue to have discussions, not only with the

Minister for Environment, but also local councils. I can confirm that

have been 244 reports of road signs being defaced within the last 12

months. Sufficient evidence available, where that is available,

we shall seek prosecution. I am also sure that the member showers

frustration that my department has to devote valuable resources in

terms of expenditure and staff time to deal with this issue, when that

could be used profitably in other activities. Many of which are

safety related and would provide great benefit to the people of

Northern Ireland. Can you undertake to the House that, where there have

been repeated instances of vandalism, whatever type,

particularly on main routes where tourists of others who are not used

to the travel journey, that the possibility of replacing them with

higher located signage, to make it more difficult for the offence to

be repeated, would that be considered? We look on an ongoing

basis I best, not only to protect existing signs, but to ensure that

they become less easy to attack. The situation is that there are

some people out there who make determined efforts to vandalise

signs. I know it is an issue of concern to many members.

Londonderry signage seems to be a particular target. I was advised

that 34 incidents of road sign defacement over the past 12 months

in that particular area. And whilst we do not keep details and records

of how sounds are defaced, but we estimate that that vandalism or

cars approximately four to six times per year. They are serial

offenders out there. I do wish they How many flags have been reported,

and what action is being taken? don't have the specific detail

available at this point. I am happy to respond to her. The member will

recognise, as with the issue of road signs and the defacing of road

signs, it is a delicate and sometimes difficult matter to

police. Would the Minister accept that there is a perception out

there among the small business community and small contractors

that in fact, there is a sort of cartel operating around public

procurement costs, and it is counter-productive to growing a

small business, particularly in the construction sector? That is his

perception. I hope it is not the reality. I am keen to hear first

hand at examples that he may have. If he has such examples, we will

investigate them can satisfy ourselves that it is not the case

that we are in any way discriminating against small

business. The Regional Development Minister.

The meat controversy we discussed earlier is not at the only issue on

the agenda for the agriculture minister. During Question Time,

Michelle O'Neill also had to deal with missing fields and job

creation at her planned department headquarters. But first, the issue

of confidence in farming. Go there is a lack of confidence within the

agriculture industry, certainly with the horsemeat issue at the

minute. Will the Minister accept that within that confidence is the

confidence of young people to go into farming, which has been a

family heritage it, and what will the Minister do to encourage it? We

do need to instil confidence and we need support in place to attract

young people to either stay into farming -- stay in farming all come

in to farming. There are targeted streams of the common agriculture

policy which we can use to attract young farmers. There are avenues

that allow us to support young people. But if we are to have

sustainable farming, we need to continue to get young people

involved in the industry. I will continue to work with the young

farmers' organisation. A combination of those efforts will

attract young people into the industry. Can the minister outlined

if there is any possibility of an expansion of research and

development at the proposed new headquarters at Ballykelly, given

the prospects for employment in the catchment areas there in Coleraine

and Londonderry? Go I can assure the number that the headquarters

relocation project is on target. I recognise the benefits there are in

terms of employment, the construction industry and the

building in the area. In terms of research and development, it is not

being considered at this stage. But it is a great side which other

departments may look to in the future. He is there any other help

out there to help farmers with their 2013 claims? As I explained

earlier, all our officers will be open during the single application

form period to provide support to farmers making their application.

Members raised concerns about delays about making the

appointments, and I am happy to explore that. But in general,

farmers can go in and ask inquiries in relation to their applications.

Amendments will also be accepted during that period. So whilst

farmers will once again be able to apply online, this year an

additional new feature means that not only can they viewed these maps,

but they also been able to measure eligible features which will help

them fill out their application form. But this is a two-way process.

Farmers must get in touch with the department so that we can get these

right. Given that farmers are soon to receive their 2013 forms,

farmers are concerned about the level of inaccuracies contained in

their new maps. Yesterday, one farmer contacted me with 30 fields

missing from his map. Another had a 35 fields missing. In light of the

unacceptable level of inaccuracies, does the Minister agree that the

delivery of the maps has been diabolical, and will she update of

the House on how such errors have arisen? I don't agree with the

diabolical statement, but I care should remember that the first two

patches were received positively by farmers. Now that we have had the

final batch of maps going out, we have had a positive feedback, but

farmers have also contacted me in terms of concerns around missing

fields. That is something that is under investigation. It looks like

it is not a result of incorrect mapping, but more resistance issue.

So hopefully it can be resolved. I do not agree with it being

diabolical, but I do agree that it is a two-way process. I take my

role seriously in terms of of what we produce, and the farmers must

take it seriously in terms of getting it right.

Today's second reading of the Budget Bill heard interventions on

many aspects of government spending over several hours. But at the

heart of the debate was a difference of opinion over whether

Stormont should have more physical powers. We expect the public sector

economy to lead to a general economic recovery, we will be

waiting a long time. In dealing with those issues within the

private sector, many of those are beyond the reach of this assembly.

Even in terms of the role of banks and supporting local enterprise, we

have to live with the reality that the accountability mechanism does

not reside here. Representatives of the major banks are acutely aware

that they are not accountable to this assembly. It can be

frustrating to get the outcomes that give hope to our existing

business. The economy in this part of Ireland is in a free for.

Private enterprise is melting away and jobs are being lost at a

phenomenal rate. It is clear that this executive is doing its best to

grow the private sector and rebalance our economy, given the

fiscal limitations facing it. Since this assemblage was established,

the primary objective has been to grow the private sector and

rebalance the economy. But this target has not yet have been

achieved. It is my view that the debate around the future of fiscal

levers we have needs to happen. Any attempts to start the debate have

been countered with a reference to an over estimated deficit between

what we conjugate in taxes and what we receive to run administration

had. This price tag is always prone out, and the case for greater

fiscal powers dismissed. But little or no assessment has been made of

the potential benefits. To have a rational debate on such a matter

costs nothing. We are prepared to engage in that debate. We are not

in a position economically where any of us should be giving

ourselves a pat on the back, but we have to accept, with the benefits

that devolution has brought, there are regularly trade missions going

out on behalf of the minister for enterprise, trade and investment,

first and Deputy First Minister, who are going out there and

encouraging businesses to invest in Northern Ireland. Have your UK-

based in Northern Ireland. We can't ignore the fact that Belfast and

Northern Ireland are considered for the second favourable location for

foreign direct investment only to the City of London. That is an

incredible achievement. My do McLoughlin raised the issue -- Mr

McLoughlin raised the issue today and yesterday. I know they will

keep coming back to the issue of additional fiscal powers and the

way in which that could help for future budgetary times. On both

sides, there is a political motive. Of course Sinn Fein want greater

independence from the rest of the UK, even ignoring the economic

impact that would have. As a Unionist, I do not want to see that

economic independence. There are occasions when it is the cry of

thing to do. But this "let's break free of the fiscal restraints

because of ideological reasons", I think is not a desirable way

forward. Mr Flanagan has a political point to make. It is an

inconvenient truth that we are dependent upon the rest of the UK.

He says we have to break away from these decisions that are made at

Westminster. Well, these decisions made in Westminster ensure that we

are �10.5 billion better off than we would be if decisions were not

made in Westminster. Listening to that is the economist

John Simpson. Quite a significant part of that debate was around

whether Northern Ireland needs more fiscal powers. How big an issue is

that for the executive, or should it be? For the executive as a whole,

it is not a major issue. There is an issue of not paying any extra

taxes. We are always try to minimise what we paid the Treasury

in air passenger duty and a carbon tax. In the queue, we have to cope

with the corporation tax change. If we get the corporation tax

concession, the Treasury will not give it as a gift. We will have to

make up the money some other way. As Sammy Wilson was putting it,

this is not an easy begin to get a better answer for Northern Ireland.

Sir it is a high risk strategy? is a high risk, because the more

concessions you get, the more likely you are to be paying and not

getting any benefits. San Wilson said -- Sammy Wilson said he had no

idea -- no problem with the idea of examining policies. Some parts of

the economy are struggling. How much of an examination needs to be

taken about where we are getting it right and where we need to do

better? That was the failure of the type of debate we have today. It

was a debate in which 20 or 25 members or said something different

that they would like about government spending. And Sammy

forcefully said, not many of you talked about how he would raise the

money to do it. But ultimately, we do need a debate about where we are

going with government spending in the next couple of years. We are

halfway through a four Year period. We have a budget approved for next

year, and we are going to go very much good as it is now. I wonder if

that needs to be looked at again. And finally, the hoary old chestnut

of water charges? That was brought up and it is an example of whether

we should be looking at what we are doing and the consequences. Sammy

Wilson, in his reply, congratulated Stewart Dickson in raising this

issue and gave what I thought was a hint that this is an issue we will

now have to think about. We are spending a couple of hundred

million pounds a year or water investment. If this were in England,

that would come from private sources. Because of how we arranged

here, it comes out of money that should go on something else. It is

expensive. Last week's Enterprise Committee

heard warm words for the investment pledge to promote Belfast following

the recent flap protests. Joan Dalton from the Chamber of Trade

said the impetus provided by the money now needs to be built on, as

we can now here in our weekly look at committee business.

It kicked off on 3rd December. lot of members rely on December

being the harvest month. That is the month that encourage them for

the other 11 months of the deer. For a debate to happen in a council

and the resulting civil unrest that happened and the downturn in

economic trade that happened was very difficult. We applaud the

Council for stepping up and giving us money to put into the campaign.

The breakdown was significant. We got 600,000 from the Assembly and

400,000 from the council and 500,000 from the private sector.

That is 1.5 million to promote the city. And it has worked well. But

we can't rest on our laurels. have been worst days, and we have

survived. Belfast has moved forward. There has been huge investment,

much to the detriment of cases like Bangor and so on. A lot of people

work and shop in the Belfast area. Belfast has had it good for a long

time. The images of Northern Ireland in the last two months have

been very negative. The media have certainly exploited it. They have

used it and abused it. It is important to remain positive.

we say to the committee is not what we portray in the media. Is it not

the case that you have to park your car or get a bus, and there is

quite a distance. The success of Victoria Square is at the detriment

of other places. If you move on and go to John Lewis, there will be

further displacement. Victoria Square has given food for, it has

not displaced it. It has skewed where the shopping centre of

Belfast is. There is some merit in that analysis in that you get

people shifting from one retail destination to another. That is why

the chamber's view is more holistic. We have to get all of Belfast city

centre regenerated. And regeneration is often retail lead,

because the that allows things to stack up from a financial point of

view. But we need to get people living back in the city centre. We

have to get entertainment on a broader perspective than just bars

in the city centre. It has to appeal to lots of different

elements to make the city attractive. We would hold the view

that Victoria Square is a positive asset, because of it is housing

retailers that don't exist anywhere else, and it helps form a unique

shopping destination for. Last week's Enterprise Committee