21/10/2013 Stormont Today

With Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up on the programme

tonight: A visit to the Children's Hospital brings an injection of cash

from the Finance Minister. I am shocked by what I saw. Professionals

going beyond the call the duty to save children.

A fracas over Fermanagh as a debate about job creation in the West heats

up. The minister can tutt and roll her eyes as she always does.

We'll have analysis of the day's business from our political

correspondent, Martina Purdy. While the loss of the A5 road scheme

was a bitter disappointment to many people west of the Bann, the money

that would have been spent on it was thrown back into the finance pot and

today the Finance Minister delivered the good news of what projects will

now benefit. The capital reallocation exercise was completed

by my officials over the summer. The executive allocated ?75.2 million to

DRD. This will allow DRD to continue construction of the Belfast to Larne

road scheme and complete work on the Magherafelt bypass project. An

additional eight kilometres of roadway will be built improving

access and road safety on that route. Funding will deliver planned

road structural maint tans nans and other road iment improvements. It

will ensure that DRD can complete bus procurement orders and begin

replacement of the Strangford to Portaferry and Rathlin ferries. DRD

will commence early design and preparatory work for the A6 road

scheme. The A6 work does not commit the executive to this project. The

executive took a view until there is clarity on the A5 project, we are

not afford to commit to the A6 project since delivering is

unaffordable. The executive agreed to allocate ?33 million to the

Department of Health. Two weeks ago, I accepted an invitation from the

Health Minister to visit the Children's Hospital. I was shocked

by what I saw. Dedicated health professionals going beyond the call

of duty to treat extremely ill children, but doing so in

surroundings that I am ashamed to say are far from fit from purpose.

Therefore, I pleased that this allocation enables the department to

begin construction on a new Children's Hospital. A new

state-of-the-art regional hospital to care for sick children from all

over Northern Ireland. There was ?19.9 million allocated to DARD. It

provides funding for further flood elevation works in East Belfast.

There was ?16.1 million pounds in respect of the regional stadium

construction project. 11.8 million was allocated to the Department of

Learning. Redevelopment at Queen's University, asbestos removal at

Stranmillis College. Members may recall I brought a motion to the

assembly acknowledging the economic value of Northern Ireland's

outstanding historic buildings. So I am pleased that this allocation will

see assets like those enhanced. Simon Hamilton hoping to preserve

our historical buildings. Our political correspondent, Martina

Purdy, is with me now. The minister gave us a detailed break down of the

redistributed funds. How significant is this money first of all for the

Children's Hospital at the Royal? Well, it is hugely significant,

Mark. This project has been talked about for decades as my colleague,

the health correspondent, reported tonight. Back in 1973 when Gloria

Hunniford was a young reporter, it was talked about then. By the early

1990s Baroness Denton brought forward proposals for a new

hospital, but the money was never forthcoming and again, when

devolution was restored in 1999, the Sinn Fein Health Minister tried to

get the new hospital and in 2007 another Health Minister, the Ulster

Unionist, also asked for the money and was unsuccessful. So we are

getting the money. It is in part due to the fact that the A5 road pro

ject is being tied up in environmental issues. We now have a

completion date of around 2021. There has been a bit of politicking

around the distribution of the millions today? Well, there is

always tension where there is money concern. Roy Beggs, he issued a

statement expressing regret that the money for the hospital didn't come

forward earlier. He said, it was interesting that the money is being

made available because there is not just a DUP Finance Minister and a

DUP Health Minister. That's one of the benefits of having a party in

charge of both. There is no tension there, about who gets the credit,

the DUP? It is an executive project, about you a DUP minister is

announcing it and a DUP minister gets credit through the health

portfolio. There is questions raised today by the Sinn Fein chair of the

Health Committee. Welcoming the project, but saying in a recent

beefing briefing, the impression given to the committee there was

other commitments. He couldn't get money out of the

cash machine at lunch time? Yes, after announcing the mlts, he found

-- millions, he found that the bank machine was out of order! He used

his card. Did you buy him lunch? I had to lend

one member a tenner for lunch! We saw quite a few robust exchanges

between two Fermanagh representatives, Arlene Foster and

Sinn Fein's Phil Flanagan. Yes, Phil Flanagan brought forward a motion

critical of Invest Northern Ireland's job record. The Enterprise

Minister who hails from Fermanagh was not impressed with the points

that Phil Flanagan was making. It did get rather tetchy and personal.

These two politicians don't see eye to eye on a range of issues and

found themselves on opposite sides of the arguments on issues such as

fracking as one of my colleagues pointed out, he doesn't see them car

pooling to Fermanagh any time soon! Let's see that lively debate. The

motion as brought by Sinn Fein's Phil Flanagan. Since April 2009

there hasn't been a single invest NI led visit by a potential foreign

investor to either counties Fermanagh or Tyrone. That's not good

enough. There is not enough being done to create jobs and attract

investment into struggling rural areas and the minister can tutt and

sigh and roll her eyes as she always does when somebody brings a motion

in criticising her department. But that's is a fact, we have statistics

to back it up. Every country in Europe has its own

version of the west of the Bann problem and every country know there

is not much point in regional imbalanced are best addressed in a

growing economy, improved road transport, power and communications

infrastructure are essential elements of a package that a

prospective investor would want to see. This motion highlights an

important issue, the fact that we have next to no clarity on the

number of jobs created as opposed to those promoted. We cannot judge our

success against the programme for Government. Some of our members are

so small-minded that they want to start talking about a job created

here in this county. A job created in that constituency. When you look

at foreign direct investment around the world, they will think nothing

of planting down a Northern Ireland and creating jobs for the whole of

Northern Ireland. How do you expect to go and plead with these companies

to come into your constituency whenever they read the papers and

whenever they read the Hansard of this place they see you run the

place down. 60% of the investment, support offered from 2011 to 2012

went to eight constituencies across the north. Those eight

constituencies are located in around the greater Belfast area. That is

factual. It is also important to highlight that the target set for

Invest Northern Ireland are again for job promotion. So the programme

for Government sets out job promotion targets. It doesn't set

out job creation targets. If the member wants to take that up with

his colleagues in the executive, that's a matter for him. We don't

force people to go to particular areas in Northern Ireland. They tell

us where they want to go and we then facilitate it, but we do that

because people make bids. They sell themselves. They are positive and

that's one of the reasons why I have got very much involved in the smart

region concept in Fermanagh and Omagh because if I'm challenging

other areas and saying what are you doing? What are you doing to bring

foreign direct investment to your region then I think I have to step

up to the plate as well and that's what I have done. We are planning

for Invest NI's conference. It is coming to Fermanagh. I note from the

Fermanagh Herald he says they will not come out of their hotel. I will

make sure they will come out of their hotel. That's the negative

attitude I expect from Mr Flanagan. Last Friday, I engaged from with

young people with Joe Burn and with a representative from the Ulster

Unionist Party. This was arranged by the Peace and Reconciliation Group.

A range of questions were put to the audience and one of the questions

was in ten years, do you think you will be living in Fermanagh or

Tyrone? The answer was 78% of the young people thought they wouldn't

be living in Fermanagh and Tyrone because of the lack of job

opportunities. Is this the same conference that the member told

young people that the only thing I brought to Fermanagh was fracking?

When did the fracking start in Fermanagh? The minister is nearly

correct except from the tense. From all of the contributions from the

DUP members, there was not one single member that put forward any

kind of a defence as to why there was no foreign investors brought to

places like Fermanagh, Tyrone or Derry and that really says it all.

In her final contribution, the minister said I was wrong in saying

that the Invest NI delegates would stay in the hotel and she would see

to it, they will be taken out of the hotel. That's right, they will

probably be taken to the Giant?s Causeway and Titanic Museum as

always happen. The Justice Minister told the

Assembly today that he remains committed to a separate prison for

women, but that it's unlikely to happen in the near future. David

Ford was making a statement on the second anniversary of an independent

review into the Prison Service. Mr Ford told the Assembly that the

reform of the prison system is making good progress. The report

calls for change across the prison system in Northern Ireland. Its 40

recommend dayses were challenging, but I believe then and I believe now

that it set the road map to delivering an effective, efficient

and sustainable service. I said at the time of publication that

implementing the recommendations would be a long-term process and

that we would have to put in places foundations if reform was to be

embedded throughout our prisons. The service established a reform

programme to put in place the foundations tor delivery and to

drive the necessary changes. The reform programme is at the half-way

point. Good progress is being made. Nine recommendations have been

approved by the prison review oversight group. This group provides

oversight and scrutiny of the programme and includes a robust and

challenging independent element. I anticipate that a further nine

recommendations will be brought forward to be signed off by the

group at its December meeting. If those are signed off, almost half of

the recommendations will have been implemented. That demonstrates

steady progress. There is a Prison Service initiative at mag gab bury.

I also wanted to see support put in place for those with addiction

issues. Prison staff are being selected to work on the addiction

programme which will be piloted in the New Year. This will be a

complete programme regime which will support prisoners to break the cycle

of addiction. It is the first of its type in the British Isles and

demonstrates the approach that prison staff are willing to take to

deliver change. Today, I want to focus on the needs of females. I

wish to put on record that I remain committed to having a separate

prison for women. However that will not happen in the near future. To

address this, a four stage approach will take place with I will deliver

positive change for female prisoners. Reforming the prison

system in Northern Ireland is the biggest change programme in the

public sector since the formation of the PSNI in 2005. The

recommendations from the report were not straightforward. As I said

previously, the vision of the report was to deliver end to end

transformational change. That means changing the structures, ethos and

culture of the people who work for prisons and how they work with those

who are in custody. All of which has to be delivered within today's

financial restrictions. The Prison Service is an organisation in

transition and many people are working to make changes a reality.

I'm encouraged by the work that's being done and the pro he gres that

has been made. David Ford, the Justice Minister on

the state of prison reform in Northern Ireland. Joining me now is

Professor Phil Scraton, who wrote two human rights reports on women in

prison in Northern Ireland. David Ford says he is committed to a

separate prison for women but are we really any closer to that happening?

I am concerned about that, Mark. I mean, we made those recommendations

way back in 2005le. We were against the move to Hydebank Wood. The move

did happen and it has been a disastrous move for women. Their

rights are breached on a daily basis. We know the story of women

being transported with men. They can't move around the campus of

Hydebank Wood. They don't enjoy the freedoms of a medium security jail.

All of those issues remain unresolved issues around strip

searching and the Prison Service will say they are not strip

searched, they have a top half. All those issues we raise eight years

ago are still profoundly there and they were there in in Ann Owers

report. On four of the key criteria of judging the prison, it was poor

on four and only satisfactory on one. That is unacceptable and if

that's what is going to continue until 2015, even with the minor

adjustments that will be made in that time, it means that we are

presiding over not only the inequality of women in our jails,

but a serious abuse of their rights which would not happen in any other

European state. What are the implications for

individual women prisoners if this change doesn't happen as quickly as

you would like it to happen? Well, the implications are clear. Except

for a small number of long-term prisoners who actually have to

endure their imprisonment alongside others who are coming and going and

that's unacceptable. But apart from that, we are going to see women and

they go in for short periods of time, going in and out of that

prison over the next three to four years who are going to endure the

processes we have identified that are unacceptable. It is not only

those of us who are independent researchers. Ann Owers team pick up

and it is not acceptable. David Ford was at pains to point out

the reform of the prison system here is a huge task, but steady progress

is being made. Do you accept that? The devil is in the detail, Mark.

What David Ford did not do today is demonstrate which of the nine have

been resolved. Which of the forthcoming nine will be resold and

we are only half-way after two years. We are only half-way to

meeting the demands of Ann Owers report. That's slow progress. I have

been inside the prisons many times and I understand the problems of a

root and branch change, but it is not quick enough and while that's

happening prisoners and their families endure that process that

breaches their rights. Thank you very much indeed.

Earlier, we saw lively exchanges in the chamber and the temperature rose

during questions to the Culture Minister.

Can I ask the minister if she would confirm that the City of Culture

legacy plan will be will be brought forward this year and can she assure

that Derry football club will be included? With the ?3 million that

the Derry City council has will put a dent into the Foyle Valley plan.

It is really important that we use opportunities through sport and

physical activities through, the arts and the community development,

through health, social development and the rest to make sure that we

leave a good footprint and I believe the Foy Valley project is one of

those. Has the minister been able to ascertain how many boxing clubs we

have and how many need modernisation programmes? Well, there is well over

60 boxing clubs across the north you know, it would be fair to say that

many of them, if not all, well certainly, I would say the majority

of them would need some support around capital and support. I think

you could count on one hand the number of clubs that don't need any

support at all out of the 60. It is not the wax lyrical here, but we

continually praise the work and the product of boxers in this assembly

and this chamber. We continue to acknowledge the commitment and work

and the role models to play for children and young people within our

communities. We have to get behind the sport and make sure not only do

they have the facilities, but they will attract other youngsters to the

sport because any parent walking in, despite the success, they walk in

and see the facilities, I couldn't blame some of them for being tempted

to walk-out again despite all they do. They need to get behind the

support and put the investment where it is needed and boxing is one of

the sports that needs it. As the minister is a minister of the Crown

on a 24 /7 basis and subject to the constraints and obligations of the

Ministerial Code at all times, why then this summer did she see fit to

align herself with partisan protests against expressions of British

culture in Northern Ireland? And be present on several occasions...

THE SPEAKER: Order, please. As I have said that the member is

consistently silly. He provides nothing, but divisive politics to

this House. He has done nothing in terms of community relations,

building good or better relations. I think he has a brass neck to

question my adherence to the Ministerial Code which belongs to

this place. The member, despite his expertise, alleged of knowing

standing orders inside out, needs to ask the right question which is

right and pertinent to the question he asked in the first place. If he

has any difficulty with doing that, I am happy to sit down with him and

show him how it is done! The Culture Minister offering

tuition to Jim Allister. Row the PSNI are recruiting was

under discussion. The opening up of the recruitment

process of the PSNI and it allows for a further tran formation and

civilisation of the police force which is not fully representative of

the society we live in. As the member will know from his

role on the policing board, there are numbers around the budget. The

Police Service are in a process to start a new campaign. The important

issue for this campaign given that the 50/50 targets are removed is to

get the affirmative action programme to ensure they get the widest

possible range of applicants and to continue the work they have been

doing to ensure they become a representative service. Can he be

equally clear in temples of what the people of Northern Ireland are

missing in terms of the NCA operating operating here and the

impact that it would have on the people of Northern Ireland if we

don't have the full implementation of the National Crime Agency here?

What we will not have if we don't have full operational powers, the

NCA will not be able to deliver the same assistance to the PSNI until

the 7th October we had from the Serious and Organised Crime Agency.

It will hamper a variety of crimes, drug smuggling, fuel laundering. It

the not mean that those activities cannot be carried out against such

criminals, but it will mean the PSNI has to devote resources

There is now an opportunity for him as a minister of justice to bring

forward legislation which would tackle serious crime and indeed,

make it effective, but make it atable? -- accountable?

Well, I am not sure what legislation I could bring to on any meaningful

time scale which would enable us to fix the gap because even if we were

to seek to bring forward a new Bill in this place and even if there were

complete mrit theical agreement, there would be a significant gap to

allow the consultation, the drafting, the processes in this

House and I do not believe we can wait for those processes to be gone

through. I believe we have now got to the situation that the

accountability mechanisms are in place to allow the NCA to operate

within Northern Ireland subject to our normal policing architecture

here. Subject to the prime assy of the NI, reporting to the policing

board, all of those are issues which we have got.

Can I ask the minister that access to justice won't be compromised by

any reform of Legal Aid? I can assure him as I have assured the

House and the committee before, that it is my ambition to not take issues

out of scope for Legal Aid unless an alternative better method can be

provided, but there is no doubt that the financial challenges we face are

placing pressure to the point that current ex-pented ture on Legal Aid

-- expenditure on Legal Aid is meaning I have to make cuts in other

departments and that's an issue that needs to be addressed. The issue we

maintain as far as possible the access to the legal advice that

people need. The Justice Minister explaining how

money is tight in his department. Martina Purdy is with me again. So

Arlene Foster had a sharp exchange with Sinn Fein's Phil Flanagan over

job creation, but the mood is perhaps much lighter between the

First and Deputy First Ministers this evening.

Well, Mark whatever tensions they may have over the Maze, they don't

tend to fight in public and they are visiting Boston and Chicago. They

are visiting companies and I was hearing today in the he corridors,

there maybe good news shortly. Watch this space! That will be

interesting. Behind the scenes, you have been looking into Stormont's

approach to flying the Union flag? Well, Stormont has been looking at

it for around a year when the controversy arose over the flying of

the Union flag over Belfast City Hall and the decision to limit the

flying of the Union flag to designated days. The cross party

commission which is responsible for Parliament buildings has a paper

which it has to consider. Here is a number of options. They were

supposed to meet this week. The meeting will happen in November.

OK. We will hear more about that. That's it for now. Join me tomorrow

night at 11.20pm here on BBC Two. For now, bye-bye.