22/04/2013 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. Coming up on the programme: An

exemption for schools from fair employment legislation faces fresh

opposition from both Unionists and Sinn Fein. How can the any

political party that claims to be committed to equality, be content

to oversee what is an overt discrimination in how our teachers

are recruited? Why is Alex Attwood coming to the defence of the public

sector? There are Many services better delivered by a private

organisations. -- public organisations. And Mark Simpson

joins us with his thoughts on the big political stories of the day.

All that and more coming up on tonight's programme - but first I'm

joined by our correspondent, Mark Simpson. This time last week we

were discussing a growing sense of crisis within the Executive - but

at the start of a new week, the foundations haven't moved at all.

No. Sometimes you look at the DUP and Sinn Fein and they remind you

of an old married couple. They fight all the time yet still stay

together. Crisis, what crisis? This time last week we were talking

about relations being at an all- time low. A week later, there has

been a clear the air of meeting between Martin McGuinness and Peter

Robinson. If proof were needed, it is pretty firm. At the tail end of

last week, there was disagreement over the Maze project, even though

it was granted planning permission. Yes, this is going to be one of

their next tests. I think this could go to the door of Martin

McGuinness. The details, at the fixtures and fittings, who is going

to be the tour guide around the age Block, that negotiation has still

got to be held. My indication is it my right go to the top. This is all

about dealing with the past, of course - and today there was a

contribution to the debate from the Progressive Unionist Party. Yes. We

have been here before. Another initiative, another attempt to get

something sorted out in terms of dealing with 30, 40 years of

conflict. As the Bulls when you talk to parties, you get somebody

within all of the party's who say that if the deal with the past, you

are condemned to live in it. -- parties. The DUP have been talking

about her new initiative, a truth commission, something to look at

what happened here. There are indications that loyalists and

Republicans have been talking. When we talked to John Kyle earlier, we

asked and the extent of those contacts between Republicans and

loyalists. Conversations have been going on since the days of Long

Kesh. There has been the dialogue and debate taking place between

republicanism and loyalism over many years. Within society at large,

the question of giving with the past has really just dropped off

the agenda. -- dealing with the past. While we're prepared to talk

to anybody wants to talk to us, what we say is that it needs to be

broader than just loyalism and republicanism. It needs to be owned

by the society as a whole. PUP's John Kyle. And shared

education was also an issue that was on the agenda today. Another

big issue which really has not been dealt with in terms of the two

biggest parties, Sinn Fein and the DUP, coming to some sort of

agreement and overall education policy, whether it is transferred

tests or shared education. That has been the problem with this report.

Recommendations about bringing Catholics and Protestants together

in school. It also raised the issue of what should happen in terms of

bringing people from all sides of the community in terms of the

social divide, together again. The pitch did get a little bit weird.

Education, there has been a bit of a stand-off between the parties.

Today people are at last talking about education again. Thank you

for now, Mark. We'll hear more from you later in the programme. The

long-standing exemption for schools from aspects of fair employment

legislation is discriminatory and should be abolished, the Assembly

heard this afternoon. The exemption has been used by the Catholic

Maintained Sector to require teachers to have a special

religious education certificate to work in its schools. An Ulster

Unionist motion calling for its removal was backed by the DUP, Sinn

Fein and Alliance - leaving the SDLP as the only main party in

disagreement. This motion should not be something that it conjures

up via or suspicion. It should be an issue that truly unites this

house. How can any political party that claims to be committed to

equality, be content to oversee what is an over discrimination in

how teachers are recruited? They cannot. It would be rank hypocrisy.

Mr Speaker, to provide a very quick background to this debate, in order

to apply for teaching posts in Catholic maintained nursery and

primary schools, applicants must possess a recognised religious

education certificate. This certificate is supposed to be sure

that teachers in Catholic maintained schools have an

understanding of the Church, its teaching and a way of life, to

enable them to contribute to the maintenance of the ethos of the

school, and to assist parents in educating their children in the

faith according to the principles of Catholic education. That appears

to be all very noble. But should every single primary school teacher

in the maintained sector require it? The answer is clearly no. For

many people, the requirement of primary-school teachers to all the

certificate which effectively eliminates up to Haka of the

potential workforce, would sound grossly discriminatory. And that is

because it is. It was discriminatory within the PSNI and

it is discriminatory within the education system. To anyone who

says this is an attack of the ethos of Catholic schools, they are wrong.

I am well aware of the important role that premier school teachers

play. The commune, for instance, and the excellent education

throughout. -- the communion. I do propose that some protection

remains in plays. In my amendments to the Education Bill I propose up

to 20% of teaching jobs, the teaching of religion in various

ways. This one in five will be similar to the case in England.

While some parties may talk a good game on the vision for a single

education system, the fact that the DUP leader or any of the other

three executive leaders could not be bothered to read and respond to

this debate, shows how insincere they are Willie Halve. -- they

really are. The Education Minister should realise that his silence on

this issue is the equivalent of his compliance. It is totally

unacceptable that any organisation is allowed to discriminate in the

way in which this practice has been going on for the last 40 years.

Let's try not to dress it up. Let's not try and hide it. What is at the

core of this? At the core of this is one sector that once took, by

all means and methods, ensure that it protects its own sector. I speak

in support of the motion. I am delighted that the Ulster Unionist

Party has finally seen fit to introduce terms like equality and

equal opportunity into their educational discourse. The recent

decision to formally amend this current policy, that all teachers

seeking appointment to Catholic maintained primary schools must

halt his certificate in teaching Catholic Education, is to be

welcomed. This amendment now enables all teachers irrespective

of their background, to be considered for Catholic maintained

schools, subject to a commitment. Given that this House has examined

the future cohesion of the excess of -- education system, perhaps

today's Mohsin is important -- motion.... I do think it is

salience to stress that a any proposed repeal will not be the

silver but some believe it may be in a dress in the ongoing legacy of

the sectoral education system or any poll rise workforce. Sinn Fein

do not propose the continuation. We would call upon the Education

Minister to take forward proposals under article 71 of the fair

employment and treatment order following the features Dabbers and

of the education and schools of the Mac. The SDLP a strong advocate of

parental choice when it comes to school. Equally we want student

teachers to be able to apply for jobs in the full range of

educational sectors, whether it be Catholic, controlled etc. The

certificate in religious education was never designed to be exclusive

ticket to employment or to exclude talented teachers. The Catholic

maintained sector... In addition, at primary level sacramental

preparation is an important part of religious education. The sacrament

of reconciliation at Holy Communion Taarabt two stages. I believe it is

a positive step to encourage those students if it enhances their

profile and bodies their choices when it comes to applying for work.

Our goal as the assembly must be to ensure their children across the

North have access to a first-rate education system and our teachers

are equipped to deal with a diverse range of pupils in one of Herceptin.

Hits the SDLP will not be subordinates Mohsan. -- hence the

The SDLP MLA Sean Rogers. And Mr Rogers is with me now in the studio

along with the Ulster Unionist Party member, Jeff Dudgeon, who's

been heavily involved in the campaign to have the legislation

changed. You are both very welcome. Apart from the SDLP, all the other

main parties got behind this motion today. How significant was that?

think it was a dramatic moment. To some extent it was not expected

that there would be almost unanimity. It is 35 years old. It

is time that the teachers were not exempted from firms. As long as

were backed by every party, including Sinn Fein. Were you

surprised? We were not expecting it, to be asked. I thought it would be

I had no way job. And the DUP, who backed the thing, had tried to

amend it. They suggested it was a matter for DUP and Sinn Fein to

decide privately. Sean Rogers, the SDLP has put itself out on a limb,

hasn't it? The SDLP, parental preferences very important to the

SDLP. There is a large demand for Catholic Education, particularly

primary education. And we need to have teachers properly trained to

teach in Catholic schools, particularly primary schools.

is no suggestion that teachers about the certificate and not

properly trained? Yes, but it is one very important area. It is not

just the subject of religious education, it is about the

Christian ethos, sacramental preparation. In terms of sacrament

preparation, there important years for new teachers. The exception

applies to every school and every teacher in Northern Ireland. So

every school will have to adjust their activities and their

appointment processes. Is that 20% exemption not acceptable? We didn't

know anything about the 20% until the debate today. You know about it

now? I know. We will consider it carefully. You have to think in

small primary schools where you have two or three teachers, the 20% rule

wouldn't be useful. The problem for your party is if the SDLP says it is

interested in equality and fairness, you look like you are supporting an

anomaly in fair employment law? want equality in terms of what our

parents want for primary schools. Others would say if you want

equality, you should be supporting this? I would like to see greater

access for this certificate, that students shouldn't have to do it by

distant learning. That is the equality in terms of our students

when they are doing their A-levels. If they want employment in a

Catholic primary school, they need to have the certificate. That is the

type of equality I want. Do you not accept that Sean Rogers has a point,

that this is very important? Well, it is true also in controlled

schools. The law applies to them. It is not a Catholic law. It is unique

in Europe. Not a single country in the 27 members of the EU need that

exception. OK. It is an interesting one. We will see how it turns out.

Thank you both very much for coming in. Now, three long-running issues

raised their heads again during First and Deputy First Minister's

Questions in the Assembly today. The investigation into the Magdalene

laundries, the jond going struggle to have corporation tax devolved and

what is being done to encourage economic growth were all discussed.

The Junior Minister answered questions on the inquiry. We are

mindful of the pain suffered by many individuals who were resident in the

Magdalene laundry type institutions here. We sympathise greatly with the

plight of all who have experienced abuse. Anyone with any information

on any abuse of any kind should report it to the PSNI and to social

services for investigation. Anyone who was resident here within the

Magdalene laundries, or similar institutions as a child between 1922

and 1995 can go forward to the inquiry into historical

institutional abuse to relate their experiences. They will be able to

talk in private about their experiences to two members of the

inquiry's acknowledgement forum and contact details for the inquiry are

available on its website. Can the Junior Minister outline how many

people have come forward to date? The inquiry and investigation is

independent of office of First Minister and Deputy First Minister.

I know the work has been continuing. Many people have already been to see

the acknowledgement forum and have had the opportunity to tell their

experiences. In addition, I understand 240 people have come

forward with complaints to the inquiry and these are being

currently addressed and looked at to identify locations and the systemic

similarities. We met with the Prime Minister on 26th March to discuss

devolution of corporation tax powers to the Executive. The Prime Minister

indicated that no decision on this would be made until the autumn of

2014. You will already be aware of our considerable disappointment that

a decision on the devolution of these powers has been deferred. We

briefed the Executive on our discussions on 28th March and our

disappointment was reiterated and shared by every member of the

Executive. This was not unexpected but it is regrettable and will delay

our efforts to rebalance the local economy. Our meeting was adjourned

so consideration could be given to an economic package for Northern

Ireland. The aim would be to assist our economy through encouraging

private sector growth. We are presently working with the United

Kingdom Government on the details of this economic package which would

use the economic levers open to the Northern Ireland Executive and the

UK Government. We would hope to be able to resume our meeting with the

Prime Minister and agree a formal package in the coming weeks. As far

as the announcement that they would take a decision by 2014, we want to

be clear that not only will a decision be taken in the autumn of

2014, but that it is capable of being implemented and legislated for

before they entered that parliamentary term. The Executive

has taken the important step of making the economy a top priority in

its programme for Government. We are committed to growing a sustainable

economy and and investing in the future. We must rebuild the labour

market and rebalance the economy to improve the wealth and living

standards of everyone. Our programme for Government sets out the main

actions. We are committed to increasing the number of jobs,

increasing value of exports, increasing research and development,

providing rate relief, eliminating IPD, investing in social enterprise

growth, supporting creative industries, regenerating former

military sites, supporting business, improving skills attracting tourism,

increasing uptake in stem subjects and implementing a strategy to

address economic in activity. First Minister. The Environment

Minister has given his early assessment of the success of the new

plastic bag levy. Mr Attwood said the feedback he's received from

retailers has been positive so far. Before that, he outlined how the

extra revenue will be used. When the single use plastic bag levy was

introduced, the administrative costs, which will be around �600,000

a year, with those jobs being located in the city of Derry, the

residue monies that come in will go to environmental causes and what

will they be? My ambition will be to have a river restoration fund. That

will be a sustainability and innovation fund and more money to

rethink waste. As a levy, 80% of the money will go out in terms of

intervention to support the economy, especially at community levels.

there any suggestion that proposed savings that the administration

costs would be for the single-use bag levy? Well, there was a

suggestion within the department initially that the management of the

single-use bag levy should be administered by a third party

private organisation. I proposed that proposal. Why? The costs would

have been significantly more. There are many services better delivered

by public organisations than private organisations. People should not

embrace the private when there is a better public model. There is a

better public model when it comes to the carrier bag levy. The costs of

�600,000 a year, given the environmental benefits of this

proposal, and given the small income streams that will go back to the

environmental organisations. I don't think that that is a highly

significant amount of money for bringing about a highly significant

change in environmental practice. Thank you. Early as it may be on

feedback, whether it be positive or otherwise, have you had any feedback

at all from the shop owners? Yes, I have, of course. I have had feedback

and I think more and more that the retail industry is more and more

recognising that this was the right time for this right measure. My

sense, very strongly, is that the citizens and the consumer were well

ahead of where some of the politics and the law was in this regard, that

people had been conditioned by the plastic bag levy in the Republic of

Ireland to begin to adjust their behaviour. There has been

enthusiastic welcoming and embrace for the levy in the North from the

consumers. Yes, there were some questions raised in respect of the

business side. (A), because we were innovative of how we rolled this out

and (b) because there were some very good business leaders who said the

Northern Ireland Association of Small news agencies said - this is

nearly verbatim - said this would reduce costs to the local newsagent

without having any disproportionate increase in terms of the management

and bureaucracy. That was a wise - those were wise words and that has

been widely recognised. Environment Minister had a busy

afternoon. He remained on his feet to deliver a statement on local

government reform. It's been years in the making. When can we expect

change to happen? The reform is one of the fundamental building blocks

of streamlining public administration, a process started

some years ago. It has produced change in the administration of the

health sector and the education sector is also under going major

change. I believe Northern Ireland does reform well, even if too slowly

and in some places, with reluctance. The local government reform

programme is arguably the most complex policy issue before the

Assembly today. As I indicated in Question Time, whilst there have

been many examples where the number of councils may have been reduced in

a jurisdiction, it is not often the case that at the same time as

merging councils you have the transfer of significant function.

After extended negotiations, I can report that on 11th April the

Executive agreed a package of functions which will transfer

through to legal councils. -- to 11 councils. My own department will

transfer local operational planning. DRD is transferring off-street

parking except park-and-ride. DSD is transferring the following areas of

urban regeneration. Functions associated with physical development

- and members will note the statement issued by the DSD Minister

in that regard today. Some community development programmes for the

voluntary and community sector. Now the package of functions is agreed,

it is important we move to confirm the number of staff transferring and

the quantum of funding. In confirming these details, the

Minister will have regard to the principle agreed by the previous

Executive. Functions without transfer from central to local

government should be fit for purpose, sufficiently funded and

cost neutral to the ratepayer at the point of transfer. The recent

Executive funding decision means council through low interest loans

can help ensure reform is fully-funded. Mark Simpson is here

with a few final thoughts. The new Principal Deputy Speaker Mitchel

McLaughlin was in the chair for that debate? It was always going to

happen. Mitchel McLaughlin was always going to become a speaker of

some sort. For those of us that covered the peace process

negotiations here at Stormont, he was always seen by Sinn Fein as Mr

Safe Pair of Hands. When something controversial was going on, they

would send Mitchel McLaughlin out, rather than Gerry Adams or Martin

McGuinness. He was seen as the night watchman. When we looked at Mitchel

McLaughlin in those days, we knew he wouldn't be a Minister - he was des

tinned for the Speaker's -- destined for the Speaker's chair. A lot of

people were surprised when ever that was mentioned last week, his age.

This was your first day following proceedings specifically in the

Chamber for quite some time. How do you think proceedings compare to

what they were like a decade-and-a-half ago? One thing has

changed. Even when I was here in the days of David Trimble as First

Minister, there was always this issue with the Chamber not being

lively enough, not making enough news, not being as topical as it

could be. That is still a problem. The one thing that I have noticed is

the barriers coming down between the parties. Somebody said to me the day

power-sharing started, "We don't need to like each other to work with

each other." I'm detecting more across the big divide people in

different parties are starting to like each other. It is nice to have