23/04/2013 Stormont Today


23/04/2013

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Good evening and welcome to Stormont Today.

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Coming up on the programme: The First and Deputy First

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Ministers appear in public for the first time since their falling out

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last week. Look, we have the ability to have a good row every

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now and again. Not like others in the past who huffed and puffed and

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refused to speak to to one another. Are Peter Robinson and Martin

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McGuinness now back on the right track? We'll have analysis from

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politics professor, Rick Wilford. Also tonight, a debate on tobacco

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retailing prompts some soul- searching on the back benches.

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an early age my life has been ruled by cigarettes. I plan my day around

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cigarettes. I plan what time I get up in the morning around cigarettes,

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I plan meetings around cigarettes. It is a week since Peter Robinson

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and Martin McGuinness had to schedule so-called clear-the-air

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talks in an attempt to mend their reportedly faltering relationship.

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Today, as if to prove that a week is a long time in politics, the

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pair made their first public appearance together since the row.

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They spoke to our Political Editor, Mark Devenport, who asked them

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first how they're now getting on. The only thing that surprises me

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about some of the press commentary on these matters is they are

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surprised that occasionally we might might have a different

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opinion on issues. The fact is we come from very different political

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parties with different ideologies and different backgrounds. The

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remarkable thing that we reach agreement on so many issues and the

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issue isn't so much that we find something we disagree on, the issue

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is that we are able to resolve it and that's what is important and

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that's what is important for Northern Ireland. We have made

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spectacular progress in Northern Ireland. We don't get credit from

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the media for it, but nonetheless, this is a completely new era,

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people are living in a very different Northern Ireland than the

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one that Martin and I grew up in. I think we have a massive potential

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for the future and we are resolved and determined that we're going to

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lead this country through peace and stability.

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Look, we have the ability to have a good row every now and again. Not

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like others in the past who huffed and puffed and refused to speak to

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each other. We have been in Government together for the last

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six years and there has never been a threat to the institutions. So,

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we are well rounded individuals. We have the ability to sit down and

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have reasoned dig log and discussions about what we need to

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do and we know there are things we need to do. We're not trying to

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bluff people. There are decisions that have to be made and we have

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been involved in trying to get agreements on a range of decisions

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which will bring, I think, enormous benefits to our people. There is

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not a coalition Government anywhere in the world that doesn't have to

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deal with that sort of stress and difficulty.

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REPORTER: So you think having the rows is healthy? I think every now

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and again it does no harm at all. Well, I think that over coming

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differences is the process that we are engaged in is about. We are

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involved and have been for a long period of time in resolving a raft

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of issues and making real progress. I think over the next number of

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weeks you will see the product of that. But from the point of view of

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the people of Northern Ireland, I think it is important that we don't

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have a daily diet from our media indicating that the Executive isn't

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delivering. The Executive is delivering. Maybe our failure is

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not being able to transmit the message of how successful this

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Executive has been to the wider public and we are having to sift it

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through newspapers who glory in the fact... Hang on, he made a speech

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having a go at you, it wasn't the media? When you have you have

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newspapers who glory in the fact that they are the official

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opposition. We have to have our information transmitted to the

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public. That doesn't seem fair to You are convinced the DUP are in

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power because they want to be, not because they have to be which is

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what you said at the ARDESH? From my prospective, there will be times

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at party conferences, whether it be a DUP party conference or a Sinn

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Fein party conference where people will make speeches. My speech was a

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genuinely held view. There is a difference of opinion about my

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speech. We have had our own discussions about that. It is now

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time to move on. The First and Deputy First

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Ministers speaking to Mark Devenport. Well, I'm joined now by

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Professor Rick Wilford from the School of Politics at Queen's

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University. First of all, do you get a sense that they have

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metaphorically kissed and made up? Well, I think for the time being

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they have put together a working relationship because there did seem

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to be some distance between them. I don't know whether they they hugged.

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There has been agreement for the future. But there are still

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potholes ahead on the road, aren't there? There are. It was

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interesting that Robinson talked about making some announcements in

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the next short period really. I suppose one of of moz may relate to

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-- those may relate to issues. The other one which will cause real

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difficulty and I can't see a way they will agree is on the scope of

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Welfare Reform in Northern Ireland and that's going to prove difficult

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because they are far apart on some of the aspects of the proposals

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that the coalition Government in London put forward. Not least of

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which is the so-called bedroom tax or spare room subsidy and that's

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going to be an issue. But for the time being, given that the

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atmosphere has cooled, we can only welcome that, but that's not to say

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there aren't further, as you put it Mark, potholes or bump in the road.

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What about the idea that elements of the press are a self appointed

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opposition. Is that a threat or a safeguard? Well, it is a safeguard.

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The press are there to be a thorn in the flesh of all politicians,

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whatever party they come from and wherever they practise their

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politics. The fact, I suppose, the choice of phrase of Peter Robinson

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used about being in opposition, it maybe points up the fact there is

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no formal opposition in the assembly itself and the local press

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found themselves in the position where they felt in a sense they

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have some warrant to act in that capacity, but it is a bit rich, you

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know, that politicians spend a lot of their time mingling with and

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briefing politicians, some people liken it to dogs and lamp posts and

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I don't think we should be surprised when some elements of the

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press criticise politicians, justifiably or not, that's part of

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their remit. Let's move move to this petition

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:07:38.:07:38.

launched against the conflict cons formation -- conflict

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transformation site the Maze Prison. They had an agreed candidate in the

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mid-Ulster constituency a month ago. I suppose what it does is it

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highlights the fact that McGuinness and Robinson and the DUP and Sinn

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Fein have been able to cobble a working relationship. It looks as

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if the Unionist family, is resembling more. And it is

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dysfunctional and this is going to place strain on this grand project.

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Thank you very much for joining us. Today's proceedings in the chamber

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began with the latest stage of the Tobacco Retailers Bill introduced

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by the Health Minister. Its provisions include strengthening

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the penalties for those who sell tobacco to children as well as

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scrutinising the legislation, the debate featured several personal

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interventions over the dangers of smoking. While we have made

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substantial progress since the 1960s when over half the population

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smoked, our smoking rates remain too high. Rates are particularly

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high in areas of social and economic deprivation. Because there

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is around one in three people smoking in those areas compared to

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the average of one in four for the general population. The reasons why

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young people take up smoking, despite the evidence of harm it

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causes, are complex and varied. Of the 8% of children who smoke on a

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regular basis, over half frequently purchase tobacco products from a

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newsagent, Tabakonist or sweebg shop. My ob-- sweet shop. My

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objective is to ensure the minimum age of sale policy is more

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rigorously applied by retailers as the proposed legislation will

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introduce tougher measures for non- compliance. The evidence is that a

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significant number will continue to sell tobacco products to those

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under the legal age unless we apply stricter sanctions.

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The Tobacco Retailers Bill would aim to achieve this. Making it

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compulsory for all tobacco retailers in Northern Ireland to

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register with their local District Council. Granting courts the power

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to ban the sale of tobacco either on a named premises or by a named

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person for up to 12 months following an application by a

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District Council. An application can only be made if three tobacco

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offences have been committed within three years. Creating new offences

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in relation to the register including failure to register and

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failure to notify of changes. Creating the offence of breaching a

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banning order and allowing for Fixed Penalty Notices to apply for

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a number of offences including that of selling tobacco to under 18s.

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One issue has arisen which is of course, which is of concern to the

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committee. The Bill will introduce a three strikes in three years and

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you are out rule. If a retailer commits three offences, of the sort

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specified in the legislation within a three year period, they can be

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banned from selling tobacco. The committee welcomes this sanction.

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However, we are concerned that the offences leading to a banning order

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are too narrow. Currently, the Bill states that the type of offences

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which can be counted towards a banning order are not registering

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the premises to sell tobacco, failing to notify changes to the

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register and selling to under-age persons. The committee has

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suggested that the Bill should contain a provision to allow the

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courts to include a conviction for selling tobacco as as one of the

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three strikes which would lead to a banning order. When the committee

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made this suggestion to the department, it initially advised

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that the tobacco sales were dealt with by HMRC under the Duty Act and

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someone could be banned from selling tobacco if convicted. When

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the committee inquired further into this matter and we contact the

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Department of Justice we learned that the tobacco duties Act had

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never been applied here. There is a worrying situation at

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the moment where 20% of tests fail where people who are under-age go

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in and are able to buy cigarettes and the majority of those who

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consume tobacco products start when they are young. I have only

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consumed two cigarettes in my life. Back 40 years ago and I have to say,

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I have to say, I found them disgusting. I through them tht bin

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and I -- in the bin and I never touched them since.

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The minister might take the opportunity to talk a little bit

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about the need for other departments and the Executive as a

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whole to seize this issue. I lost both my parents to tobacco. And I

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make no apology for having little tolerance for it. I am quite happy

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to describe myself when it comes to tobacco and the regulation of

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cigarettes and tobacco to be a bit of a fascist. I think that's the

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sort of stage stage we need to get to in this society.

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We have a duty to ensure that we do everything in our power to prevent

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people becoming addicted to this vile drug. Mr Speaker, I can call

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this a vile drug and a filthy and disgusting habit because I'm one of

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the 24% of adults in Northern Ireland addicted to tobacco. I

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started smoking almost 30 years ago as a teenager and I can remember

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that within a very, very short time, I had become an addict to the

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properties of this drug. And from an early age, my life has been

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ruled by cigarettes. I plan my day around cigarettes. I plan what time

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I get up in the morning around cigarettes. I plan meetings around

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cigarettes. I even plan the time I spend in this chamber around

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cigarettes and it is correct what will Wells stated early, smoking is

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one of the biggest regrets of my life. I welcome the minister's

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presentation of this Bill, I do so as a smoker. I do not recommend

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smoking to anyone. I was not an under-age smoker or even a teenage

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smoker. In fact, I got hooked on it when I stopped playing football and

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sport at the time. In welcoming the Bill, I would like to say to the

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minister and he is fair and he is straight and he is consistent on it

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which I respect, but I would like to say to him now, and I don't

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normally speak on these issues. Just ease back on the voluntary

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smoker. None of this this nonsense that we were picking up yesterday

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on banning a person from smoking in their own car. I just find that

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intolerable. A number of members raised the 1979 Act. Why has there

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been no prosecutions under the 1979 Act? That's a good question. All of

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us need to know the answer. Why are we not doing more to go after those

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:15:45.:15:49.

who engage in the is in the ill lis it tobacco industry. Mr Wells

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confessed to having two cigarettes. I don't know why he had two

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cigarettes. One did me! The Health Minister, Edwin Poots,

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like some of his fellow MLAs, in confessional form about cigarettes.

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The Enterprise Minister has called the G8 summit in County Fermanagh

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the biggest opportunity Northern Ireland has ever had on the world

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stage. Speaking during Question Time, Arlene Foster also reiterated

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the importance of devolving corporation tax and continued

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growth in the tourism sector to reinvigorate the local economy.

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am disappointed that the Prime Minister delayed his decision on

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devolving corporation tax powers until the autumn of 2014. The

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Executive remain committed to securing this additional policy

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leaver. We will continue to work together to deliver the actions

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contained within the economic strategy and the more recent

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economy and jobs initiative. However, it must be recognised that

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the economic strategy's key objective of rebalancing the local

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economy would be delivered more quickly if we had the power to vary

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the rate of corporation. The delay isn't an indefinite one. We have

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been told once the Scottish referendum is out of the way, that

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a decision will be taken. I want to say that I think that it is a

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fundamental mistake that we have not, from the Prime Minister, that

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he has not made the decision now. Frankly, if I was Alex Salmond, I

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would use it as a way to argue for independence because I would say

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the Northern Ireland Executive put forward a compelling case in in

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respect of corporation tax, however the Westminster Government decided

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not to devolve that and if I was Alex Salmond I would say what you

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need is independence. In actual fact, I think it goes contrary -

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well, I am not arguing for independence. I can actually join

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the dots unlike some people across the way. My department is working

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closely with the Prime Minister's office, the Foreign and

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Commonwealth Office and local stakeholders to maximise

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opportunities to show case Northern Ireland's business development and

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tourism offering to visiting delegations as a positive place to

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live, work, visit, study and invest and do business with to a global

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audience. Could she add to her previous answer, what excess she is

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-- access she will have to these potential important investors?

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we are meeting with some of the forward delegations already that

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have visited Northern Ireland and Fermanagh and they are engaging

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very much with Invest Northern Ireland and all of the other

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partners. This is the biggest opportunity we have ever had on the

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world stage and therefore, we must take those opportunities and that's

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what we intend to do. There have been many meetings as the member

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might appreciate over the past period since the G8 was announced

:18:41.:18:45.

as come to go Northern Ireland and I very much welcome the officials

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from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Prime Minister's

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office to Fermanagh on a regular basis. We are increasing their air

:18:53.:18:58.

miles to Northern Ireland. Despite the challenging and economic

:18:58.:19:04.

conditions, I remain positive about our prospects. Full year figures

:19:04.:19:08.

for 2012 on visitor numbers are not available, there are many

:19:08.:19:13.

indicators of the success of the NI 2012 campaign. I am encouraged by a

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10% increase in hotel occupancy rates during 2012 and by the

:19:18.:19:28.
:19:28.:19:28.

excellent first year visitor number figures for Titanic Belfast and the

:19:28.:19:36.

giants Causeway Visitor Centre. We have the UK City of Culture and the

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G8 Summit in Fermanagh. I know that the first and Deputy First Minister

:19:43.:19:50.

have been along to Titanic Belfast this morning to celebrate the the

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that 807,000 visitors have come to Titanic Belfast since it opened in

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April last year. Noi, Noi now, that's a tremendous success. From

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128 countries as well. They have come from across the world and I

:20:04.:20:09.

think that shows the benefit of having a centre like the Titanic

:20:09.:20:13.

Belfast. The Enterprise Minister, Arlene

:20:13.:20:16.

Foster. Northern Ireland's first Sexual Assault Referral Centre is

:20:16.:20:20.

to open at Antrim Area Hospital next month. It has previously been

:20:20.:20:23.

billed as a national model of good practice, but in an Assembly debate

:20:23.:20:26.

today, some Members expressed concerns that it might not live up

:20:26.:20:32.

to victims needs. My first concern is about the opening hours of the

:20:32.:20:36.

centre. Currently it is proposed that the core core business hours

:20:36.:20:41.

of the centre will be from Monday to fid from 9am to -- Friday from

:20:41.:20:47.

9am to 5pm. Perpetrators do not carry out their attacks to ensure

:20:47.:20:57.
:20:57.:21:01.

they fit in with office opening hours. They should know they are

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not alone in their battle. We are here to help. There is the issue of

:21:07.:21:15.

access to counselling. The Rowan will refer people to other

:21:15.:21:19.

organisations. The committee has written to one of the main

:21:19.:21:23.

providers of counselling and they have confirmed that their waiting

:21:23.:21:28.

list are long and some areas up to four months. We should recognise

:21:29.:21:34.

the fact that we will have a specialist facility which will dot

:21:34.:21:37.

important job of providing the care services alongside the justice

:21:37.:21:40.

services which the victims of domestic and sexual violence

:21:40.:21:46.

require and I think that is a key way which will ensure the people

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were to give best evidence and that cases will stand up in court and at

:21:51.:21:53.

the same time ensuring that people's needs are met in the

:21:53.:21:57.

aftermath of the troubles. There is a culture issue in our society

:21:57.:22:04.

about men, in particular, finding it impossible to appreciate the

:22:04.:22:10.

right of women, children, other men to their own bodies. The right and

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the sanctity and the integrity of someone's body and there is a

:22:15.:22:19.

cultural under under currant that does lead people to think that it

:22:19.:22:29.
:22:29.:22:30.

is OK to abuse. The Rowan will be open to deal with a victim at any

:22:30.:22:36.

time, 365 days a year. All victims will receive the same level of

:22:36.:22:40.

specialist support whether they attend out-of-hours or during core

:22:40.:22:45.

hours. This is a significant step forward in supporting the victims

:22:45.:22:50.

of rape and sexual assaults within a safe, a secure and confidential

:22:50.:22:53.

environment and working in partnership with the voluntary

:22:53.:22:56.

sector, we will provide better support to the victims and

:22:56.:23:00.

survivors of sexual crime and seek to bring those responsible to

:23:00.:23:05.

justice. The Health Minister, Edwin Poots

:23:05.:23:09.

and the DUP's, Pam Brown joins me now. Thank you very much indeed for

:23:09.:23:16.

joining us. You raised the point there that the Rowan will only be

:23:16.:23:20.

open during office hours. The minister tried to reassure people

:23:20.:23:25.

it would be 365 days a year in terms of phone access. Did that

:23:25.:23:29.

allay your fear as soon as. Somewhat it did, Mark. The service

:23:29.:23:34.

is to be there, the core hours are to be Monday to Friday, 9am to 5pm

:23:34.:23:40.

and that strikes you as well, it struck me as unusual because when

:23:40.:23:45.

you think of rapes and sexual attacks, you don't think of them

:23:45.:23:50.

happening between am and 5pm and -- 9am and 5pm and from Monday to

:23:50.:23:56.

Friday, it is something you expect to happen at the weekend or

:23:56.:23:59.

evenings. But somebody can speak to another

:23:59.:24:05.

human being quickly? Yes, there is an on call service 24/7 and that's

:24:05.:24:08.

very reassuring. As far as I know you will be in touch with a

:24:08.:24:13.

specialist nurse initially and they will make the arrangements for you

:24:13.:24:16.

to attend the clinic. How much is a service like this

:24:16.:24:20.

needed in Northern Ireland, do you think? It is greatly needed. I mean

:24:20.:24:24.

at the moment there is the service, but it wouldn't be the one stop

:24:24.:24:31.

shop that the Rowan is intended to be. Hopefully all the services that

:24:31.:24:36.

a victim would require after such an assault, hopefully all those

:24:36.:24:42.

needs would be met in the one place which would be in the Rowan. So it

:24:42.:24:50.

is good news? It is very good news. 86% of Department of Agriculture

:24:50.:24:52.

staff are unhappy with its planned move to Ballykelly in County

:24:52.:24:55.

Londonderry. The Finance and Personnel Minister told the chamber

:24:55.:24:57.

this afternoon. Speaking during question time, Sammy Wilson said

:24:57.:25:00.

help will be given to staff who want to be reallocated in another

:25:00.:25:10.
:25:10.:25:11.

department. There has been some work done with DARD staff to assess

:25:11.:25:21.
:25:21.:25:21.

their response to the relocation. 86% of sap of DARD staff indicate

:25:21.:25:27.

ter not prepared to work -- they are not prepared to work in

:25:27.:25:31.

Ballykelly. There are procedures which can be used where staff are

:25:31.:25:37.

unwilling or unable in some cases to move to a new location which

:25:37.:25:40.

will assist staff to either locate to other departments or help them

:25:40.:25:48.

with the move to the new location. The Secretary of State has recently

:25:48.:25:53.

suggested and somewhat scatheingly that Northern Ireland departments

:25:53.:25:57.

currently under spend and somehow or other she regarded that as an

:25:57.:26:02.

example of economic under performance. I have got to say, as

:26:02.:26:06.

in so many other cases, the Secretary of State displays either

:26:06.:26:12.

a lack of understanding or a lack of briefing about affairs in

:26:12.:26:15.

Northern Ireland. Because, of course, and I am not too sure what

:26:15.:26:19.

she was actually referring to. If she was referring to the fact that

:26:19.:26:23.

we have budget flexibility arrangements which were negotiated

:26:23.:26:29.

by the Executive, with the Treasury, which allow us to carry money over

:26:29.:26:33.

on our capital Budget and on our current spend budget every year,

:26:33.:26:38.

then, of course, that is something which we are entitled to do and

:26:38.:26:43.

represents and was sought indeed, so that we could have good, prudent

:26:43.:26:47.

financial management and not have a frenzy of unnecessary spend at the

:26:47.:26:51.

end of the financial year. So I'm not really too sure what she is

:26:51.:26:55.

referring to. All I can say is that our record on under spends has been

:26:55.:27:00.

far better than previous direct rule ministers ever showed when

:27:00.:27:04.

they were this charge. Can I thank the Minister for His

:27:04.:27:11.

answer which I note consisted of excuses at a time of record high

:27:11.:27:14.

levels of youth unemployment and a lack of political decision making

:27:14.:27:19.

at the Executive. But it might be helpful if the minister could

:27:19.:27:24.

outline whether or not he posed some of those questions to the

:27:24.:27:28.

Secretary of State and if so, what were her answers? I think the lady

:27:28.:27:35.

fails to listen to answers. Maybe somebody in the SDLP writes a

:27:35.:27:41.

question for her which she feels she has got to read out

:27:41.:27:46.

irregardless of what has gone on before. I would like her, I mean,

:27:46.:27:51.

where were the excuses? There weren't any excuses.

:27:51.:27:56.

Can I ask him if he has received any assurances from the Ulster Bank

:27:56.:28:00.

in relation to the relation IT glitches at the bank? Does he

:28:00.:28:03.

believe that they have got this problem under control?

:28:03.:28:08.

Well, all I can do, I am not an IT expert and I suspect the people I

:28:08.:28:14.

speak to in the Ulster Bank have not, are not IT experts either.

:28:14.:28:19.

They take the assurances from the anoraks and the people with the

:28:19.:28:25.

technical knowledge and the geeks who deal with these particular

:28:25.:28:30.

issues. All I can say is that in the conversations I have had with

:28:30.:28:33.

them, Ulster Bank assured me that they believe that they are on top

:28:33.:28:39.

of the technical problems now. Point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker.

:28:39.:28:43.

I ask that you read the record of the minister's response to my

:28:43.:28:48.

question where he suggested that I read a pre-prepared supplementary

:28:48.:28:52.

question and he replied in a sexist manner and furthermore, the

:28:52.:28:57.

particular minister has a record of sexist abuse and could I ask to

:28:57.:29:06.

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