27/03/2012 Stormont Today

Hello and welcome to Stormont Today. There may be no more horse-trading

at the old Lamas Fair but up here, the ancient art of deal-making is

thriving. Ministers even have to crack the whip at times. I need to

hold those to account in the service who are fooling me. If they

fail, I fail, so people within the system rather performing to the

best of their abilities step up to the market will move on. My guest

is Jackie Redpath. Voluntary groups across Northern

Ireland are facing austere times just like everyone else. One group

came to Stormont today to campaign to have their funding continued.

The The Integrated Services for Children and Young People claim

that their funding is being cut by two-thirds. Jackie Redpath - is

that the figure? You are losing two-thirds? The offer that is on

the table would result in only one third of funding being available.

What impact would that have on the services you provide? A dramatic

impact on the work we do with families and children in west

Belfast. If I could just say, it is a privilege for me to sit here

representing West Belfast and Greater Shankill. I am proud that

people were on the steps of Stormont today to protest together,

communities and erstwhile enemies working together for the benefit of

children and young people. Bat has a very strong message. It has

brought these two communities together. It is vital that this

continues because the only thing that will suffer will be the

programme, and the thing that will result will be a significant number

of job losses. The biggest damage that will be done here will be the

damage done to families that we are working with. We are talking about

something of a significant scale here for. We are working between

children, a young people and their families, with 4066 people. What

are you doing to help them? What would be lost? What happens in the

family is the most important thing. We also know west Belfast and

Greater Shankill is one of the waste -- most disadvantaged

communities. The problems family space are sometimes beyond belief.

Local people are trained to. We make sure that those problems are

not exacerbated and go into something else. The second thing is

that any intervention is intensive - that when the problems are there,

we can go a n one at 24 -- on a 24/7 basis, not just to resolve

problems but to open up opportunities for those families,

children and young people. There are significant success stories.

The Health Minister says he has told the senior management of the

five health trusts that performance must be improved. Edwin Poots held

an emergency meeting with the chief executives and chairs of the Trust

this morning. Conditions in A&E were among the items discussed. Mr

Poots says problems in the system need to get better quickly. We need

the system to get better quickly to. I believe it is a management issue

of. We do need to ensure that doctors are available, perhaps more

often than is currently the case. How far are you prepared to go to

hold your managers and chief executives to account? I made it

quite clear to the trust chairman that they account to meet for the

performance of the trust and the executive directors account to them,

so if they do not hold the executive directors to account,

then I will be holding them to account. The very clear challenge

function that they have to exercise to ensure they do get quality and

service delivery within the health system. Argued prepared to sack

anybody? Let's work together to make things better. -- are you

prepared. If the system does not improve, that is something we need

to address. You have not ruled out sacking at chief executives?

need to operate in a way that encourages people to perform to

their best and I want to ensure that is the case. We need to ensure

we do not exclude any option on the table to ensure we get the best

health service possible. We are told they deserve the salaries

because they are UK-wide salaries but looking across the water,

people do get sacked when they underperform. Bat is the case and

we need to reflect on all of these issues. But number one, I have put

it very clearly that they need to deliver. I have put it to them and

they cannot get it any more clearly. Let's see how things pan out over

the next few months. You have given them months to turn things around?

I think we can see improvements. How many months? I think we can see

improvement over two to three months. I will be asking them what

they have done to make improvements in a three months' time, and I want

to see that they are continuing to improve them move things forward.

Doesn't the buck stops with you? Yes, and I need to hold those to

account who are failing me. If they fail, I ultimately fail, so I need

to ensure that people who are not performing to the best of their

abilities step up to the mark. Jackie, you have laid out the

services that you provide - what is the timescale for this funding cut?

The timescale is that they have got until Friday to get this resolved.

What we understand to be on the table at the moment, which we have

only been told verbally, will make the programme totally untenable.

That is why we had to come here today. I am delighted that this

place works and that democracy is here, and I support it. I am just

sand that in this case, until today, government has not worked. -- sad.

I understand there are intensive talks. We had MLAs and ministers

out, who spoke to us today, and I believe there are discussions going

on in the background that would give me some hope that this matter

may be resolved. Our request is that what is on the table for one

year should be made pro rata for six months and that the money

should be up to some degree. That should give us six months to try to

resolve whatever problems these departments have about this.

should you get the money? Everybody is facing cutbacks. What is it that

you provide? Is there not a danger you duplicate some services? Quite

the opposite. This is integrated services for children and young

people. What we do is bring those services together to make them more

effective. It is quite the opposite to duplicating services - we are

co-ordinating those services to make them more effective for

families, young people and children. We have had amazing success in

relation to that. On the Shankill, we have worked with social services

and we do on a daily basis. 27 children last year who were on the

social services register, 23 of them have come of it this year.

figures speak for themselves. The sun was shining appear on the

hill but it did not stop assembly members reminding us about the

winter chill during questions to the Regional Development Minister.

But first, the Justice Minister had to face a few frosty questions.

He asked a question to which I did not hear an answer so I'll ask

again. Where prison officers given advice that the outcomes of their

gratuity payments would be... My understanding is that they were,

but I ask him that they were given that advice. It is my understanding

that information was conveyed at one stage to members of the justice

committee that payments would be taxable, potentially, next year. I

believe that was made in November last year and was directed at a

meeting of the committee in February this year. I am not in a

position to say what information may or may not have been supplied

It is regrettable that that mistake was made last year but it was

corrected. Is it credible that he will be able to deliver full body

scanners? Are I think -- thank Mr McCartney for his question. I can

only state what I said yesterday - that we are not sure what the

timescale would people stop the timescale for some of the processes

depends on licensing arrangements, which have to be considered at a UK

level, but I will repeat my assurance that we will be working

as fast as we can to move on the issue of fall body scanners, to get

pilots under way as fast as possible. In the meantime, will the

Minister help to recommence dialogue between prison officials

and Republican bristles -- prisons, in order to bring this continuing

dispute to an end? I certainly share his desire that we should

bring the dispute to an end. As I understand it, the author of a

prisoner forum has been made to those on that row three and a row

four core but prisoners have been unwilling to engage in that form of

discussion, which I believe would be the best way, given it is in

line with the 20th August 10 agreement. The important issue for

me is to ensure that we provide the best possible regime for all

prisoners in our custody, commensurate with their human

rights and the need to provide safety and security for staff and

prisoners. It was then the turn of the Regional Development Minister

to face questions about winter preparation. I think it is

important that we look at all aspects of winter preparation. I

can inform the House that on a yearly basis, after the winter

period, my department does review how it has performed and if there

are any outstanding issues to be addressed. The member has raised

one and we will look at it and, at some stage, discuss it further with

What intention does he have in increasing cross-border co-

operation? I'm grateful to the member, it seems a long way from

Lindhurs Hurst Gardens. I say that there are, I think, issues that

where there is, where there is common cause we will, of course,

co-operate. My understanding is that the system operated in the

Republic of Ireland, I would be very grateful if the member would

pay attention to the answer to the question he posed, that there are

differences in emphasis and approach. That they may not be

easily reconciled. Certainly, we will happy to look at instances

where by co-operation in a meaningful way can be operated

successfully. Financial matters are always hot topics during Question

Time. Members of the Assembly Commission took their turn to

answer questions. We should not sit in an ivory tower. In the

circumstance in which there are cutbacks to the overall block grant

in Northern Ireland, the Assembly from that point of view has to take

its share of the pain. However, we've organised, the Commission's

introduced a wide review of all business areas to ensure services

are done in the most efficient manner. It's possible that the

nature of the delivery of services will change in some areas as a

result of these reviews. The programme for the reviews, nothing

will happen without wide-ranging consultation with members as the

Commission's key stake holders in that front front.. The member

confirmed that the viability of video conferencing facilities.

Given the austere times we are in at the moment, everyone is looking

to try to initiate cost-saving measures, does this mean ministers

will be able to avail of video conferences, for example, if they

want to liaise with their counterparts in the Irish Republic?

Are you keeping well yourself, Gregory? Could I just say, zepty

speaker, that the same argument could be applied on an east west

basis. There might be a churlishness in the question. The

video conferences facilities are available to individual members.

The Assembly Commission serves essentially members as opposed to

the Executive. I'm sure if they seek use of this facility it would

be granted to them. I've in doubt about that. Only four days to go

and there will be a new leader of the Ulster Unionist Party. They are

going head-to-head in Londonderry tonight. It's behind closed doors.

We put three quick fire questions to both contenders earlier to see

how they compare. If you are elected leader what will the Ulster

Unionist Party look like in five years' time? We will be more

cohesive, in terms of our membership, more coherent to the

public in terms of our policies. The two things we have to do very

simply, one is politicalcle, one is organisational, better policies

better communicated we need a better organisation better

resourced. I hope wee of had an Assembly election. I would hope we

would of done a period of opposition and fit and ready to

return to government. What three things would you do to entice

ordinary people in Northern Ireland to vote Ulster Unionist at the next

election? Different groups we have to target. We have to target those

that started voting four our political opponents. Target people

who stopped voting altogether am have you to reconnect with people.

Number one, you have to go out and find what's important to them.

Secondly, in what is it meets the needs, is it jobs, is it health or

education, is it a mix of all? Use that time in opposition to

scrutinise and develop, meet trade unionists and business people. Meet

people in community groups to hear what are the issues and what are

the policies that make a difference to their lives and improving their

lives. That is what we have to do to reconnect. On tackle stickly our

young people, it's engaging with young people and seeing what is it

that it important in their lives as well and making them understand

that politics is local and that politics, whether it's funding for

their local football club or rugby club or whatever the issue happens

to be, running campaigns for safer driving, like we had my local

constituency, issues like that are how we connect politics to young

people and make it seem relevant in their lives. I think people are

looking for common sense government and that is what I'm offering.

Looking for people to be honest with them about what we can and

cannot achieve. I think people are looking for hard work on the ground.

So, that's what I'm offering. I'm getting a response, even at this

stage, from a lot of people kolg up and saying, I don't vote, but if

you get the leadership, I will vote. I will vote for you. Some saying

they will join up with your party and help you. What would make Mike

Nesbitt a good leader? You do know he is running against me. I'd

rather, at this stage I would say, do you want to ask what would make

me a good leader? I'm Mike, I think he would be better as the leader

maybe after me, would he not? would make John McCallister a good

leader? Would you have to ask John McCallister. MLAs spent most of

their time today debating the finer details of the Pensions Bill. This

is about the timetable for increasing the state pension age to

66 and harmonising the retirement age of men and women. Alex Maskey

is the chair of the Social Development Committee which has

been scrutinising the legislation. First, here's the social

development minister, Nelson McCause lands. This is a clear

breach. It would result in cost to the Northern Ireland block of

around �270 million. Several members raised quetion regarding

the extent of the cost to the Northern Ireland block grant and

the figure is estimated to be �270 million. I know that some members

seem to believe we can have a kind of pick and mix approach to parity.

We can gobble up the goodies we like and spit out the things we

don't. They seem to expect the Westminster government, or perhaps,

more correctly, taxpayers across the UK to pick up the tab. Can we

say to people in Britain that we'll happily take the �3 billion you

give us every year to keep our social security system running, but

don't expect us to work as long as you before we can access our

pensions? There is an issue here of equality and parity across the

United Kingdom. Nelson McCause lands has a point. Why should

people retire sooner here than in the rest of the UK? People here pay

taxing as well. The British government have been saying that

the reason why they want to increase the age which people will

be retire is that people are living longer. That is right. The

difficulty is, a lot of people's health isn't good as they live long.

Therefore, the figures we received here about the health profile of

the population here in the North is that it does not compare with parts

of Britain. We are not comparing like-for-like. What we have is, as

an Assembly to do, is to try to make sure we make devolution work

for people here that we represent. What we are trying to do within the

Pensions Bill, those of us trying to oppose some of these measures,

we are trying to resolve the problems that people here face,

through no fault of their own. �270 million, if we were going to

take the option that you recommend, where would you take that money

from to pay for it? What services would you doubt pay that money?

don't see it necessarily as black- and-white as that. Obviously, there

were amendments tabled from the SDLP which would of resulted in

that possible expenditure. Our difficulty is that the department

here is not properly, in our view, exploring that the flexibility that

the British government tell us we can get around these measures,

around welfare reform, Pensions Bill. We want the department here,

and the minister, to robustly challenge this notion of parity. We

understand that parity is a big issue much we understand the level

of benefits affect a lot of people not only here but in Britain as

well. There has to be a robust challenge of what this actually

means for the people that we represent here. Is now the time to

do it? You could wait until the next mandate and talk about parity

then. We are in austerity times there isn't the money around to

start tweaking with the system? There isn't the money around. We

know that. We are trying to make sure with the so-called welfare

reform agenda we don't make people's plight worse. We are

trying to make their plight easier. They are trying to spread the money

thinly, but to spread the money around to make sure those more

vulnerable will get a better outcome. We are trying to do that

in the here and now. I have been chairing this committee since last

year. I have saw precious little evidence of the flexibility that

people like Owen Patterson tell us we can get. I want the minister and

his department to challenge that and engage firmly to see what

flexibility we can actually secure for people that we represent here.

Bear in mind, we represent people. We don't represent people here. We

represent those here who elect us. We have a duty to do our best for

those people. You mentioned welfare reform. The minister met Iain

Duncan Smith last week, to try to get some moves on the flexibility.

It does feel, in some ways, now that the Bill is law in England,

that we have lost that argument. We may be able to tweak at the edges

but significant differences in the levels of benefits people will get

here, that is gone. They will have to accept cuts? I don't expect

there will be a major difference. There may not be no differences in

terms of levels levels of benefit. That may be the outcome of this.

There are parties here, for example, I am not making a political point,

there are parties who stood up in the chamber to say, I'm a unionist

I accept the principle of parity. I said that is fine. We have to do is

to make the best deal for the people here we represent. Is it

just talk? What can you actually achieve? I don't think it's talk.

The British government say, Owen Patterson has said on-the-record

that we can secure flexibility as to how we deliver this system of

the benefits. A lot of the benefits, even if we don't change the figures,

we may be able to change the level of sanctions or how the system is

administered. We saw the problem around the personal independence

payments, we saw the mess around that where the tribunals are

overturning decision that is resulted in people being put off

these payments. Thank you. Plenty more to talk on that on the weeks

and months to come. Sinn Fein has failed to get the Assembly to back

a review of the 2005 Serious Crime and Police Act. This deals with the

so-called super grass trials they wanted the Justice Minister and the

Attorney-General to use their powers to look again at the

operation of the legislation. are told that the new legislation

is different. We are told it's different is that we are told now

that the deal, which the accomplice gets, were in the past that was

kept a secret. If people are telling me that is some sort of

difference we will wake up and discover, you know, we will know

the deal now, we didn't know it in the past. That will make us feel

that the scales of justice are removed from all our eyes. I don't

see it. Whenever members propose this issue as some sort of catch

all about super grass, it seems to me to deny the vast majority of the

public the basic support and help they should expect under the law,

where you have serious, organised criminals, use sophisticated

techniques to avoid detection and prosecution, surely, if you can get

evidence from one of their own, from an accomplice, that that

evidence should be used to them behind bar fs at all possible.

director in his evidence to the justice committee pointed to a

procedural query on which he was taking advice. I'm writing to him

to the PSNI and the police ombudsman office to see if they

have identified any significant issues about the general terms of

the legislation. I would also take account of what has been said in

the debates. What remains to be said in the debate today. I cannot

work on the presumption there is something wrong based on a single

case, I will continue to listen to the views of members and the

agencies I have highlighted. I will review the Hansard of this debate.

On the basis of my comments, Deputy Speaker, whilst I accept the

generalality of much what has been said I oppose the wording of the

original motion. There is much with which I agree. Including the system

operating a transparent and open manner, respecting rights and

maximising public confidence. My objection is waus because the

operation of the legislation is not a matter within my powers.

DUP's George Robinson defended his poor attendance at committee

meetings he was at fewer than any of miss his colleagues much he said

he had the shingles last year and had to take several months off.

Martina Purdy has a run down of how the other parties shaped up. The

Ulster Unionist Michael McJimp si - - gimp si missed some and Pat Shane.

The Culture Committee meets on a Thursday. He is doing the Policing

Board business and he is on some other committees on the Policing

Board. It is taking up more time. Alastair McDonald missed 44% of

meetings. The enterprise committee he is a busy man, the SDLP leader

and an MP. The Alliance Party? Judith missed six out of the 26,

compared to the others not too bad. Staying with Alliance, Kieran

McCarthy has been talking about comments Edwin Poots made in the

chamber yesterday? That is right. Edwin Poots, the Health Minister,

suggested that Kieran McCarthy was behaving like a village idiot not

making enough rational points. The SDLP's representative complained.

He said they were outrageous remarks and should be withdrawn.

Here is what he had to say. honestly didn't hear the comment at

the time. I was engrossed in the subject we were discussing, which

was so important. I do think, when someone resorts to that type of

language, it seems to me that they are losing the argument. In fact

the argument was lost on that occasion yesterday. I did speak to

the Health Minister earlier. He shows no sign of apologising. He

suggestion his remarks were all part of Assembly debate. Time is of

the essence for you. He you need a decision sooner rather than later.

People will be out of a job come Monday? Three days left here before

we go into meltdown. We shouldn't need come here today. We did. We

were saved. Ministers listened to us. MLA's supported us. I would be

optimistic that discussions are going on and we will get a result.

They need to do. It families will suffer here, children and young

people in West Belfast and greater Shankill if we don't get more money

on the table. Does it surprise tu's a cross community scheme and not

getting funded? It's the fourth time we have been in crisis. I

didn't think we would be here again. Thank you very much for being our