Episode 1 The Nolan Show

Hello everybody. Hello and welcome in this studio together was three

years ago, but ladies and gentlemen, I've got to say, the boss of this

place has brought me back of his own free will and he wanted to give

his own very special endorsement Thank you for joining us on BBC1.

It is a simple formula - we take the big stories of the day and

provide a huge platform to hammer them out. We break stories as well.

Let's get stuck in. The police have only cleared up 4% of all so called

punishment attacks. Tonight we ask why. And how and why do any of you

support this barbarity? We will argue it out in this studio tonight.

Simon Cowell and his love life is all over the papers. Well... One of

his closest friends Louis Walsh is here. And find out why I've been

very keen to track down a local property developer. We just

wondered what you thought of this development? We have a packed

studio tonight and there are loads of ways for you at home to get in

Right, these so called punishment attacks... During 2010/2011, 83

people were the victim of so called paramilitary style punishment

attacks here. There are people who still to this day argue that it's

the right way to punish drug dealers and anti-social behaviour.

In one incident a father was recently made to bring his son by

appointment to be shot. He complied. Can you be a decent person and

support these in any way? If anyone who supports it, are you decent?

Can you justify this? Joining me to debate this is former Red Hand

Commando prisoner turned community And Paul Smyth, founder of the

Let's start with the question - can you be decent in any way and except

this is part of a solution, battering people, shooting them?

listened to your programme in the last few days and ordinary people

came on he told you the reason they thought it was still right to do

this is because they live within the communities, the difficulty is

we have had a 40 years of... Do think it will go away overnight?

You think the responses of one when people come to paramilitaries for

reform of justice that they will not give it? No matter what

community euro, it does not mean you should justify pulling a

trigger against another human. -- community you on in. It is not

justified at all. I will always condemn it, and always have. I am

trying to tell you the reasons behind it. The reasons are because

people believe the police and not giving them the justice they want.

You live in cloud cuckoo land when you think we live in a different

society, this society we live in... Why is it them and us all of a

sudden? I am questioning whether it is wrong to shoot another human

being in 2012? Can you imagine this discussion anywhere else in the UK?

It is wrong. Why do people except it is acceptable in the community?

When you were interviewing people during the week, ordinary decent

people said to you they believed it was a just act. Then you try to

make them out to be a villain. did not. I am going to question

that every person that says do you know what, in circumstances I can

understand, because how far away is that from actually accepting it?

From supporting it? I think this is an important text boat. Here's what

we are asking... Do you support punishment attacks? This will be

anecdotal, not scientific. If you do, text the word VOTE, followed by

YES. If you think they don't text VOTE followed by NO. If you are

against them under any circumstances, drug dealer, sex

offender, any circumstances. Text us to say no. Our text number is

81771 and texts will be charged at your standard message rate. For

full terms and conditions see bbc.co.uk/nolan. Paul, you

represent a group trying to stop this and say it is never right.

work for a charity, we have a youth project which stands for whereas my

public servant and young people from West Belfast, the area with

the highest incidence of punishment attacks started campaigning through

the site because they said Jim is right, many people do support this.

These young people came out and said we do not support it and we do

not know why anybody is standing up for the rights of people in our

area were being brutalised. Almost half their attacks in the last few

years were young people. What must it do to a young person's life? To

be shot and maimed. The flashbacks, thinking they are going to die...

There are things called restorative justice that has been happening

which tries to bring the offender to the victim. There is a lot of

stuff that has been happening and it does not get... You asked me the

other day about the clear-up rate, it is simply not only because

people believe maybe it is the right thing to do, when your

grandmother gets marked and somebody burns a wheelie bin a by

your front door, the thought of somebody being burnt to death...

You can't just go down to the law of the jungle. You can't. 40 years

of paramilitaries and will not go away tomorrow. The PSNI need to get

together and work hard at this. There needs to be respect. Why do

we need paramilitaries now? We are supposed to be any peace process.

can only give you a reason from people who live in the communities

I come from. There are dissident republicans out there, the

potential of going back to a full- scale war in this country. That is

giving a the facto excuse. There are many ways to get in touch at

home. Barney is the first call. He is sitting there trying to half

justified. What does he think the loyalist paramilitaries want from

their community? Do you want to respond? Absolutely. Knee-capping

of children, perverts, child molesters. I have totally condemned

palate -- paramilitary shootings and beatings, I am here to give

people a reason why it is happening. The fact it is happening will not

be taken away, it is. People in the communities they come from the fear

Simple as that, fact. The PSNI have revealed on the radio show on

Friday they will launch a major campaign to stamp this out. Please

welcome Assistant Chief Constable Before percent clearance rate him

punishment attacks, 172 paramilitary attacks between 2008

and 2010, out of the 272, how many have you cleared? 12. What an

Well, 4% clearance rate is not enough and we need to do better,

frankly. We are doing some work internally to review investigations

into these palate -- paramilitary assaults and shootings. We are

looking at the quality of the investigations. By any measure, 4%

as a clearance rate, detection rate, for this serious kind of morality

is inadequate but actually, part of the approach to this needs to be

wider than the police. That is not passing the buck. Hold on a second,

when you are saying that you are having a look at the quality of the

investigations, is it possible you have been turning a blind eye for a

number of years and saying, it happens in Northern Ireland? That

is absolutely not the case. We need something called evidence before we

can... Go and get it, infiltrate them. The nature of this and the

way it happens means that this really challenging and difficult.

It is our job to try and recover it but we can't do that without the

support of the community. We need things like the end a evidence and

CCTV all we need witnesses -- DNA. A community will be terrified, you

know how this works. You have got to take the upper hand and make the

first step and show you are more powerful than them. If you look at

this over the last 10 years, and I have heard some of the comments

about we are still in conflict and the rest of it, as a society we are

moving out of conflict and 10 years ago, there were 320 of these

paramilitary assaults, including shootings, in a year. This year

just passed, there were 75. It was 75 too many, frankly, but things

are changing. Out of those, you had a 4% clearance rate. That is the

bit I am accepting we need to do better at. I want to say that with

the community, we can do better than this but we need that support.

Let me go into the audience. Hello, sir. The PSNI have an awful lot of

work on their hands and an awful lot of bureaucracy within the work

that they have to do. The reason why the community don't support

them is because all they see are the failings of the PSNI, due to

all of the bureaucracy and the different things they have to get

through. If there was to be more work, these guys are doing it

because they do not trust the work the PSNI are doing. If they were to

be working within the PSNI, work within the system to improve the

system... Do you think paramilitaries are filling a vacuum

because they are not performing? You gentlemen here has admitted to

the point that the PSNI are not doing as much of a job as they

should be doing, so in a way, whilst I would not say they are

filling a void, I would say they are coming up with their own brand

of justice. Robert wants to talk to us at home, he is on the phone.

would like to make a comment in regards to the police performance.

There is no question about it that's the police don't have a grip.

The fact that the expertise is not available among them, they are

tackling it the wrong way, it is a serious back in being filled by

paramilitaries. I don't condone violence, but when there is that

action by the police, this takes place. Why don't they take a look

at the United States and make a request for maybe 50 a 60 of these

people who really go to town on this kind of thing that 50 or 60.

Bring them over to train our police and show them. I say this with all

respect, I have not been disrespectful to the police, but I

don't think they have a handle on it. Weekend be joined now have by

Conal McDevitt -- we can. What is this solution? You have got an

abysmal 4% and you're trying to do something about it. But there is a

societal thing, isn't there? What are the politicians doing and what

is the culture within which this is acceptable? We will find out at the

end of the show, it is acceptable to a section of the community.

There is a history to this than to an extent, I agree with Jim, but

those who go out and carry out a punishment beating on a young

person I just perpetuating a cycle of human rights abuse. They are

doing it the exact same thing that whoever they are punishing might

have done to someone else and that does not solve anything. So the

problem needs to start at every level of society, right in the

communities. The PSNI do need to try a different ways and better

ways of being able to tackle this issue and to date, the Policing

Board have been asking for action from the PSNI and we haven't really

had a high-level response we would like to have seen until they were

shown last Friday. When are you going to admit that some of this is

actually down to the thugs that call themselves paramilitaries?

They like swaggering around their communities. Steven, I can also

tell you -- Stephen, I can also tell you that in their communities

I come from, a lot of them do not want to be doing these things but

sometimes they feel when people are coming to them... You had a woman

this morning crying her eyes said, people torturing her next door,

couldn't give her a piece and she went to do police and they didn't

do a thing. So she got people to go around and they got what they

believe is justice. These paramilitaries are alleged drug

dealers. Are they doing drugs yourself? -- themselves? Don't tell

me you don't know. The people they are dealing with are up to their

eyes in trucks and the sooner they are better -- taken out if society

What I'm saying is there needs to be trust, then these to be trust

built between X Loyalist and republican people and the years I

have been working with them, there is... Of let me just go down to the

very front. They -- let me just go down to the very front. The course

does seem to be backing up the pay -- PSNI, these guys go in, they go

out, they go back and do it again. You say it is a 4% clear-up rate,

it wouldn't matter if it was 40%, the courts are not backing them up

that they are back on the streets the next day. We wanted to pick up

the phone. Martin is on the line. - - We want you. What I have been

trying to say is I think it is an absolute disgrace. We have had a

woman on tonight's news who has been robbed on her -- in her own

home three times and this 4% is a joke. I would back anybody who I

knew anybody in their committed to take it on themselves to sort these

people out. The ash in their community. A so you believe in the

law of the jungle. You don't want to know who is deciding who should

shoot who. Where should it stop? If they shoot you in any, do they

shoot you in the spine? Shoot them in their head, depending on what

they have done. You could have your PlayStation, your TV screens, you

can do what you like, it is not going to stop it. It is just so

facile, and you got a clap from this lot in the studio, but to

shoot somebody in their head for theft, do we wonder why Northern

Ireland sometimes find itself embarrassed elsewhere? They might

cut their fingers off for stealing. This is what you are up against.

need to understand what we are actually dealing with. The 4%

detection rate, I am saying clearly and publicly it is inadequate.

don't have a lot of time, so give us a target you are going to beat.

This time next year. 4% isn't good enough. I don't want any

paramilitary attacks and the thing we need to remember is the people

who are doing this actually don't have this widespread support across

communities that has been referred to tonight. There are people

operating for their own ego and status and the rest of it. They

want power because their rationale for existing no longer exists

because we are moving into peace. Ladies and gentlemen, please thank

our guests. Thank you very much. Don't forget the text vote. The

details are on your screen. I really want you to vote tonight, I

want to get a sense from those of want to get a sense from those of

you watching about what do you think. If you could find any

circumstances in which she would support a punishment attack, vote

yes, if not and you think it is abhorrent and now that horrible,

vote know. Here is what is still to come. A I

have got the hard hat on to find a have got the hard hat on to find a

property tycoon. But first, time for tonight's star

guest. He is responsible for 28 number-one hits, he has been sacked

and we hired by Simon Cowell on the X Factor -- rehired. And even he

draws the line that listening to one of the most recent signings for

him, Jedward. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome as be guest, Louis

First of all, thank you for coming. Thank you, Stephen. Secondly, I had

a secret. It is true. What? When I was reading about you and I read

that your first artist but you had taken on was Johnny Logan,...

was the first success, that was 1980. That was the first thing I

ever bought. John a locum, told me If any body will still get a

bouncing. Anybody wants to do that, it is not a problem. -- if anybody

wants to get up here and sing. Johnny was a great artist and I

learned a lot from working with him and from Linda Martin, from Belfast,

because she won the Eurovision Song Contest as well. Allowed to people

think I have just appeared on TV but I was working and slogging for

years -- a lot of people. It must be difficult working with egos.

That is why they are on the stage that, these people, otherwise they

would be working in a bank. They have all got egos, some more than

others. How do you handle that? Are you strict? I have to work with

them, you see. You take them on, you don't just take them on, you

take the families and boyfriends, girlfriends, any bad habits, you

get that as well. And you just buy into it. When it was West I've,

I've never had any problems and we worked for years together and --

Westlife. I are working with Jedward at the moment. I would love

Jedward in the studio. Would you like to see Jedward on the show?

love them, I think they are lunatics. They are different, but

they are entertaining and kids love them. I will get them on in the

next few weeks. Maybe you can sing with them. That is an idea. But it

is a tough business, people don't realise. And you only get so long.

You have a shelf-life. We see you on prime-time, are the X Factor,

and Simon Cowell has had a really difficult week. Simon is one of my

best friends and one of the nicest guys in the world. Honestly, I have

worked with him for 14 years, he is the reason I am on TV and he made

by bands. He has made so many people millionaires. If you put the

list, it is endless. Will he be feeling the heat, with the Boys

doing so well on BBC One? -- Boyce. Honestly, no, we love competition.

It makes us better. What do you think of the show? I like the

chairs and I like Tom Jones. I think Jessie J is very good as well.

Why? She is feisty and opinionated. You have the very young and the

very old, but Tom Jones is a legend. You have got to make a decision

with the X factor, because for so many years, the comedy actor and

the people who couldn't sing, they were part of the strength of the

show but what the Voice shows you if you don't need people for the

comedy actor, it is about pure singing. I don't know, I think

people watch for all sorts of things and X Factor has that, it is

the best show by a mile. It is our night season and we are coming back

fighting. I know Gary is on it and to Lisa is honoured, but I don't

know if Kelly is. -- on it. I don't know if I will be. I never wanted

to be on TV, I just wanted to work in music. I am a real music fan,

all kinds of music. And what television also brings you is the

profile, and I really felt for you last year when the Falls

accusations, abhorrent, -- false accusations. And you were totally

innocent, crazy accusations. worst thing in my life, ever, ever.

How do you get up and fight it? am... I am very approachable and

that night, I was out in Dublin, I was approached, and I can't talk

about it for legal reasons. I don't want to go into the detail, but

here is what I wanted to do for me. I am so wary about everybody. I

don't go to nightclubs, I don't go anywhere, but I had a legal case.

You don't need to say that again because it is a given. But when you

are so approachable, as I have heard you what... His is scary.

Someone can come along to you, get a picture and say you were with

them, you did this, you did that. When you got the phone call to say

this is happening, can you tell me what it does to you inside? I was

going to do a show, I was in Dublin airport. I was dazed, totally dazed,

but I got on the plane and did the TV show. It was the worst night of

my life. I did not think I would get through the night. But it will

make me stronger and I am who I am, I can't change that. I was innocent

but I am so wary of everybody now. Any body that comes to me to do a

picture, or give me a CD, I am like, I am scared. That is the worst

thing about the business. I have seen so many people with from

stories in the paper, that is the worst thing about fame. I read that

you found it so tough that you consider taking your own life.

night in that hotel I said how I am I going to get out of this? I said

he will believe me, I did not know. People think that is no smoke

without fire. With a story on the front page of the paper, it just

takes a few people to believe it. Did you consider it? I don't know

how I got through the night. There was a PR girl with me and it would

not let her out of my room, I said police day, otherwise I will not

get through this. I got through it, it is still not over, but it is

scary out there. There are always people looking for opportunities to

make money. My mother is here tonight, I am very proud of her and

I love her dearly. How do you tell your family about something like

that? My mother was great, all my brothers, because they knew I was

innocent. They were easy, it is just the general public because you

were out there on television. People thinking maybe there is

something to this. That was the scary thing. Did you buy papers?

avoided the papers. I don't go out much because of that, it changed my

life. Why don't go out in Dublin, to nightclubs, pubs. I don't do

anything. I can see the tears in your eyes. I don't like talking

about it. I really don't. It was the worst day of my life, I thought

my life was over, thought I was finished in the business because of

a newspaper that everybody buys. What was Simon like? Amazing. So

good. He is a good friend and came round and said darling, tell me

what happened. Everything is darling with Simon! He is such good

man, the real person is really good. He likes the fast women and the big

cars. All the women and the fast cars! That is what he is like,

really good friend of mine. really good friend like Cheryl

Cole? She is an acquaintance! She's a nice girl. Not the best singer in

the world, she is not Mariah Carey, but a gorgeous girl. You loved her

Louis Walsh, ladies and gentlemen! That was after Christmas for a

magazine. It took two hours. In heels like that. Good legs!

bad! I look like my mother in it. So what is important to you in

life? Le bling. Having fun. -- living. I love my job, music, I

loved working with Westlife, Jedward. I love my job. Clem the

biggest pop fan. What about other things in life? Real things. The at

his real to me. That is my job. You love the radio, I love my pop music.

And lucky to be doing something they like. It is a tough business.

I see so many people get a chance and blowing it, believing their own

publicity. That is the problem today. People believe what they

read about themselves in the paper. And usually they make it up. It is

a fickle business and only a few people have a long career. Firm

Morrison and YouTube, they are real I am getting to an age now, 38...

thought you were more! What are the priorities as you get older? You

can drive the car you want, you have a house, you are famous.

known. I don't want be famous. Good friends, fun. That is what life is

about. Can a couple of people speak Hyde. How was it going? Fine,

thanks. I can't condone any allegation that has been made

against you. You have probably met a lot of people. I saw you about 10

years ago and you probably don't remember me because it was a quick

hello but I can tell you I have met a few different other people

involved in show business and by and down-to-earth guys I have had

the pleasure of meeting. Thank you very much. I always go to the

Odyssey with West life, Boyzone, and it is a great place, we are not

saving lives, we are just entertaining. I do love my job.

When you have people as young as these boy bands and girls, whatever,

you are the other end of that spectrum, how do you keep up the

energy? I love it. I would find it exhausting being around 20, even

13-year-old! I work with the songs, the record companies, the

accountants, everybody. I don't go on the road much with them. I only

go to a few gigs, but I have never with them, M on the phone. Who is

the best singer you have ever worked with? Shane from Westlife,

no doubt. He is picture-perfect all the time. I will manager after the

band. He is a great singer. Mark is brilliant, too, by the way.

Westlife and vocally, they tick every box. What about Jedward?

are the best fun. Kids love Jedward, their characters, their energy. You

can tell me what you think of them, I won them here in the next two

weeks. Can they sing? They can definitely seeing now. They are not

They asked me to sing at last orders, I can sing. With Jedward, a

kids love them. I want to know how you managed to look younger than

There is only one thing you can do Top seed their. -- seat there.

don't think I would fit your jacket. See that, you can read that. Please

A real pleasure to talk to you. And you so much for coming. Am I

If you want to pick up the phone, please do so, all the tweeds come

into my personal address. I will talk to you after the show and had

the lead during. -- hopefully. Still to come... There are plans to

pay nurses, midwives, and other hospital staff differently

depending on where they live. Is is fair that a nurse in London will be

paid more than here in Belfast? As you know from the radio every day,

if you need help, get in contact with me and I'll do my best for you.

Great teams working every day to try to help you. All I ask is

remembered the e mail. We're looking at a story this week from

Portstewart that is really interesting. Take a look at this.

This is cash bonanza year for Northern Ireland, from the Titanic

boon to the Gold Rush, we should be raking it in. But to cash in there

are some places that need to be cleaned up first. The Irish Open

this week was played in Port Rush and before the eyes of the world

descend on us there are some eyesores to sort out first. This is

Portstewart and look at that thing. Locals say it is a total eyesore,

in one of the most beautiful places in Northern Ireland. This looks

like the sight of a developer who has gone bust. Wrong. The owner,

Norman Menary, a country mansion owning property developer. He is

one of the people cashing in on the gold -- Gulf gold rush because the

same council who want to make him clean this Saab has given him

permission to build this, a 20 bed luxury boutique hotel for the high

running good golf crowd to relay It looks like a bomb site, a waste

of space, a dangerous waste of space. This should be secured.

this waste of space has been here for nearly 20 years. What this

developer has been able to do is leave that like that and move on to

his next project. That is the shocking thing. Here is where the

story gets interesting... Stormont is so concerned about how bad this

looks they have even an offer at -- offered Normand public money to

clear it up. But that won't happen because Norman said if cleaners

came on to the land he would treat them as trespassers. We asked Mr

Menary if he would like to speak to was but he did not want to do so so

I guess that means I have to speak to him. Did they get me extra-

large! Mr Menary, you and I need to have words. So where would we find

him? First stop, his 20 bed boutique luxury hotel? Listen to

this, in 2003 Norman Menary pleaded guilty to demolishing two listed

buildings, then reinstated them. And where was this? On the same

road he it has now got permission to extend his luxury hotel. -- he

has now. Hopefully he will not mind us bringing his development to his

doorstep. Mr Menary, Stephen Nolan from The Nolan Show. We were

wondering what you thought of this development? Do you think this is a

development you're proud of? Is it a development that should be

finished in any way? What you think of that side? There is money to

clean this site and you will not give permission for people to go on

and clean it. Why not? Hello? Norman? It's only me! So we are off

to his fancy pad. From what we can see, he has formed -- he is

protecting his own view. We left this question. At the last minute I

heard he was out on the golf course so why squeeze into my best

trousers. Hello, Norman. Stephen from the BBC. I wondered why you

went clear-up the site? The council have offered the money to clear it

up. Is it fair that site is there for 20 years? Have you looked into

the eyes of some of the residents, they have lived there all their

life and asked me to say to you please Will you cleared up? Do you

think it looks good, or is a total We duly have decided? We duly

appear beside that ruined and -- would you live beside it? With that

APPLAUSE. Let's get some answers. Please

welcome the Government minister who Alex Attwood

Now hello, good to see you. Welcome. We have got local

devolution. Can you do anything about this? The first thing we are

doing is a lot around Portrush and Portstewart. This is the best

chance we have to profile in Northern Ireland, our time and

place. That is why the Government in my department put money into

Portstewart. Why what do you think of that site? The reason there is

publicity around that site is that I and Coleraine Borough Council,

who have worked hard to improve sides in Portrush and Portstewart,

including sites... A what do you think of that side? Let me answer,

like the one we have just seen, and I have made this very clear to the

people like Mr Menary in the world, our making it very clear that I

will not have a situation where in one hand, people are coming to my

department looking for planning permission of, rightly so, for

proper development and at the same time, but few hundred yards away,

leaving sides derelict. Are you winding me up? In this actual case,

as you know, if you've helped him get his development for his hotel -

- you helped him. He has left it like that the 20 years. First of

all, if people comply with good planning practice and policy, they

will get planning approval. That is good practice, that is get that

good government. But at the same time, Stephen, that site... I know

it very well. What do you think of that question must -- obit,

Minister? It is appalling. Or why are you letting him do it? I am not.

But Thatcher was publicising it is because of the intervention of me

and government of -- the factual publicising it. We put the

spotlight on developers. You shouldn't be putting the spotlight

on me. We have put the spotlight on developers like this man and others.

The spotlight is everywhere, why don't you do something about it?

What am I doing? We put the spotlight on derelict sites.

Secondly, my officials have been instructed that where there are

developers who are failing to live up to their responsibilities,

including leading sides to go to decay,... That is why... Let me

finish, next week, people like developers like that Gentleman will

be called into planning services to account for themselves. This is

after he has put up the luxury hotel in the same area which is

supported after he left that site. Get your facts right. I made

various interventions in respect of that hotel development in order to

make sure it was handled properly and to ensure that people did not

have a free run. Can you do anything? Kenya making clean that

site? The law is very limited. Can you make him clean that the

side. We have put the public spotlight on and we are calling

people to account for what they are doing. Let me make a suggestion,

why haven't you issued a completion order? You can issue a completion

order and it doesn't go anywhere, that is the legal limit. Really?

You may laugh. Let us step back for a moment. In the north of Ireland,

we have hundred of listed locations... They have been used

nearly 30 times in England. They have been used here, zilch. Why not

issue a completion order? We don't have the same legal powers in

Northern Ireland. If we issued a completion order, there is nothing

we can do in order to N force it, where as in England, they have the

ability to take it further. Were due considered? Let me give you an

example of what I am doing it. In the last 30 years, there have been

too urgent work notices served in the respect of damage being called

that -- caused two listed buildings. In the last six months, four and

five of those served, including relation to the property, in that

Beria, that is in the ownership of Mr Ben Ali's family -- in that area.

It is my understanding that what you can do with that completion

order is that the council, Coleraine Council, cannot do it but

you and your department can. It is my understanding that you can issue

that completion order, at least try to take it to court, and that would

give Mr Meauri 12 months and the council can go on and clean it --

Mr Menary. As planning minister, I have turned over virtually every

stone. You can listen to the answer or not, but the answer is we have

turned up every stone in order to try and ensure that those who are

not living up to planning responsibilities, but the spotlight

is brought on them and they are facing up to responsibilities and

if there is any responsibility within the law... Article 37,

planning Northern Ireland. I am saying to you that whoever has been

doing your research does not understand the limits of the law.

That is why I instructed my officials to find further ways and

means to fight -- to make sure those developers not living up to

responsibilities, leading sides in dereliction, delivered to their own

and... This is what Mr Menary's And But we checked with Coleraine

There are developers in the North he will not live up to their

responsibility and more than most planning ministers in the past, I

put the spotlight on them to make sure people account for what they

are failing to do. A local newspaper can put the spotlight on

them, be as a local journalist can put a spotlight on anybody. -- me.

Surely there is devolution in Northern Ireland so you can deliver

for the people, actually deliver? APPLAUSE.

So go up to Portstewart and Portrush. There will be many people

in this area in this audience that will go up there over the next few

months, to the beaches, to surf, to go and watch the golf. And when you

do go up, you will see in Portstewart and Portrush, 20-25

sites that were derelict and indicate, and because of an

intervention I undertook two months ago to try and improve the

appearance of those sites, including the Metropole Hotel, that

was an appalling sight on the road into Portrush, bad building has

been knocked down and many of the other sides have been improved --

that. That is devolution work King that working to the benefit of the

people who live in Portrush and Portstewart. -- working. And party

division working the issue being prepared to come here and being

prepared to talk to people -- and part of devolution working years.

All right, thank you. If you have got a story, e-mail. If

you want to talk to beyond Twitter, So tonight's text vote is now

closed, so please do not text any more as your vote will not count

but you may still be charged. We'll bring you the result at the end of

the show. Next up, the Tory Health Secretary

Andrew Lansley wants to push through an idea that would probably

mean nurses here in Northern Ireland getting paid a lot less

than nurses in London. It is based on regional pay and those who

support it basically argue that if you live somewhere where the cost

of living is low, then you should get paid less - even if you are

doing exactly the same job. Joining me to debate this is

entrepreneur Katie Hopkins. APPLAUSE.

But to see you. -- but to see you. And author and

broadcaster Owen Jones. I'll kiss Face sub-regional paid.

Why should a paramedic Laura Nourse in Northern Ireland B pay that paid

less than someone across the pond? Wherever you live, it is either

bought expensive are less expensive to live there, so you should be a

paid according to what the market can afford a your area. If I astute

to go home and open up your wallet as a taxpayer and pay someone more

than they should be, would you be happy to do that -- if I asked you?

If you asked me if somebody should be paid less here in Northern

Ireland that someone across the water, I would say they are doing

exactly the same job -- it ban. Equal pay is not about paying

people the same, it is about equitable pay, it is about looking

for fare best. If you live in a place which is cheaper, if you love

-- love their place more affordable to living, you don't need to beat

paid as much. Let's not corner to regional pay, it is a pay cut

imposed by sudden million S in London -- some one million shares

We are talking about people who look after you when you're ill, who

educate your children, who collect your dustbins in the morning,

pillars of decent society. Don't give us the whole Florence

Nightingale thing, I am not buying that. In the private sector...

Florence Nightingale? Just give me loads of your northern accent,

applied with a bit of Florence Nightingale and you will have... I

don't buy it, Sunny Jim. The northern accent doesn't cut it with

a lot of people in Northern Ireland. It is interesting, because your

entire career was funded by public money. You were launched by the BBC

as thousands of pounds was thrown at you, you appear on TV to attack

pillars of the community. This is self-defeating, because if we have

public sector workers being paid less in places like Northern

Ireland and where I am from in Stockport, they will have less

money in their pocket, less money to spend and it will hit the

private sector. The reality for Northern Ireland, the amount of

which public sector earnings exceed that in the public said that

private sector is the highest in any part of the UK. -- public

sector and it exceed those in the private sector is the highest part

of the UK? I will answer Stephen's question first... The difference

between private sector and public sector is... Partly because private

sector employers are not paying their staff a good wage. Where do

you think money comes from? You think it comes from a great part in

the sky? It comes from profitable companies, very profitable

companies, but you cannot get away from a simple economic fact that if

people have less money to spend, it hits the private sector. I have

been to places across the North which were hammered by the

destruction of industry. Do you know what I saw? Boarded-up shops,

businesses that had to close. had no idea. A because private

sector... The private sector has to drive the growth. You are not

listening, you are talking and you have to start listening. The

private sector is where growth comes from. People like they are

driving the growth in this economy and people like me are employed in

young people. People like they are bringing jobs. Where would the

private sector be without an educated workforce or nurses and

doctors to make sure... Here we go again with Florence Nightingale.

You have seriously got to respect... By don't respect his point of view.

-- I don't respect. You have got to respect nurses. I'd do, but I don't

buy this whole Forest Nightingale, I'll pour me, -- Florence

Nightingale, oh poor me. You have to pay people according to what the

market can afford. We heiress Patricia? -- Where is Patricia.

Katie supports this regional pay structure and of course, a report

today has found out that families in Northern Ireland have the lowest

disposable income and she wants to make it worse. I hope this comedy

show is over, because the people who live here, it is a very serious

proposition. It is one that we have got to take into a serious arena.

This is a low-paid economy. With all due respect... We will you let

me finish? CHEERING.

Let her finish. The proposal is to take even more wages out of this

economy and that will have an impact on even more of ice

businesses and they will be more closures and more job losses. It is

also a proposal that is a direct attack on Women's pay, because in

the National Health Service, it is a majority female workforce and

very strongly here, 82%, so it is an attack on women and equal pay

for women. I want to continue this discussion on Twitter, because we

have over run. In the meantime, ladies and gentlemen, please thank

I will tell you, I will tell you why I want to come to the text vote.

Just tell me roughly how many people have voted on the text vote?

Do we know? Thousands and thousands of people, I will try and get the

exact figure. 3,300 people have text did denied from home. Here

comes the result. -- send text messages from home. I am very

messages from home. I am very interested to see what you said.

57% of you say you can support punishment attacks in some

circumstances and 42% of you say that you didn't. What does that

mean? Let's get someone's view on mean? Let's get someone's view on

that. How do you react to that? The majority of the people watching who

voted support punishment attacks in some circumstances. I am not

surprised, I have been on with Wendy Austin on the radio and it

was pretty much the same. I can understand people saying antisocial

behaviour, people are getting sick of it, but shooting somebody or

battering them with any sort of weapon is not acceptable in any

circumstances. A lot of the blame has been put on the police as well

tonight, but we also need to look at the justice system. Are you to

shop at that result? The majority of people supporting so-called

punishment attacks? It is shocking but it shows there is a lack of

confidence and the police. That is what has to be addressed. We are

out of time, thank you so much for making the show so special. Night

night, everybody and just before we go tonight, let me remind you of

how you can get in touch with us. You can e-mail us. I want to

continue the discussion on Twitter tonight. We are back on the Nolan

radio show tomorrow morning. It starts at 9 o'clock. And over the

next hour, I will be tweeting on all of the subjects we have done