Episode 4 The Nolan Show

Hello, thank you. Hello there, ladies and gentlemen, really simple

message tonight. You are all welcome live, to BBC One.

Tell you what, there are some winners in this crowd tonight, you

know by looking at them. Here's what we have for you tonight.

Sectarianism. Remember it? It hasn't gone away, you know. That's

how important it is. Here's what's coming up. It's community relations

week, but recent estimates point out that the more walls have been

built up here between catholics and Protestants during peace than in

the Troubles. It's not just about the wall, is it? Is the reality,

that we're all still guilty of being a little bit sectarian? I

smell rat-gate. One of these could be very close to you. Secretly

filmed snorting cocaine, bankrupt, and has fitted in four kids all

that by the age of 31. Kerry Katona is on Nolan tonight.

APPLAUSE There are so many ways you can get

Right. We are unable to receive text comments from the Orange

network right now. Please don't text as you may be charged. We are

aware of the issue. We will let you know as soon as it is resolved.

Community week here got off to a great start with Sinn Fein and the

DUP claiming some golf clubs here are havens for middle-class

sectarianism. That on the heels of Derry-born football James McClean

declining to play for Northern Ireland. Here's what he said: I

think any catholic would be lie if anything they said they did feel at

home seeing all those flags, union jacks and hearing the songs and

chants". Great week then. How many catholics and Protestant still hate

each other just because of their religion? Let's welcome the

Alliance Party leader, Ford ford. - - David ford. Taking David Ford on

tonight is the political commentator, David Vance.

APPLAUSE We ask the DUP to come on tonight,

we ask Sinn Fein to come on tonight and they wouldn't do so. And, I'm

sitting here and I'm thinking how important this is for all of us as

a community. For each and every person that will be born over the

next few years, no matter whether you are 16, 17 at the minute or 70,

how do you want to live? How do you want your political leaders to be

shaping your life? There are lots of people watching at home, lots of

people in this stud Yeo, the DUP and Sinn Fein, the main parties in

this country, they would not talk to you about this issue. David Ford,

you will, thank you for coming in. Can you set out for me your vision

of what a real shareded future would actually look like in this

country, how would we live it? There are a number of different

factors. We wouldn't have a situation that 94% of our school

children are divided with the result in empty classrooms and all

the cost that is. We wouldn't have people unable to go to a health

centre because it was in a different area. We wouldn't have

the interface structures you refer to. There haven't been any more

since I became Justice Minister two years ago. We have stopped building

them. The gate you showed being closed in app Alexander Park has

been opened up on our watch. That is the change we need to see.

it's LaLa Land, is it achief chiefable or do people want. It you

are not affiliated to the two main players because people vote for

them in their masses. They haven't delivered a shared document. It's

not hurting them at the Ballot Box? Look what happened at the Ballot

Box last year? Our vote went up last year. I have been setting out

clear plans to make changes and do what we could removing interface

structures, opening up gates and making changes to the society.

blame you, they say you haven't been turning up at meetings. Your

party has not been turning up at meetings. They say they arrange

meeting every single week, why aren't you turning up? That is not

true. They are hardly spoofing? will repeat the facts. Every single

meeting that has been arranged has had a senior Alliance person. Every

one but one has had Chris Little. What is going on about something so

important that we are getting mixed messages? This is important for

every single one of us in this community. There is an argument

about whether you are turning up at meetings? Maybe they are trying to

distract from the facts. They produced the consultation document

in the first place because we insisted on it before I became

Justice Minister two years ago. They had 270 responses, they panned

their inadequate and failing proposals. There were

recommendations to strengthen the good relations strategy to make

real differences in line with the things we have been saying. They

have been draing -- dragging their heels. We need the working group to

build the strategy that people want. I want you to use this programme,

pick up the phone: Please get in touch. Please use this programme as

your platform to send a message to all of these people. You have said

that Stormont is mired in sectarianism? Yes. I'm surprised

that anyone is surprised that 14 years on from the Belfast Grement

we have a more -- Agreement we have a more polariseed society. If you

look at the institution up at Stormont, to be in, it first of all,

you have to designate yourself as being unionist or nationalist or

whatever in David's case. The vision starts there. The division

at Stormont, which we've endured for the last 14 years, has, in my

view, fed down into the community. That is why no-one should be

surprised that Northern Ireland has more peace walls now than it did

pre-Belfast Agreement. Perfectly obvious. A young lady in the

audience with the red hair. You were talking to me before the show.

Where are you? Hello. I personally think that sectarianism begins in

our schools over here. I can't see any reason why kids from areas

can't be joined in a secular education. It seems ridiculous for

me? When I was at school, which was quite a while ago, people went to

separate schools. You know, when we came home from school we went out

and played together. Society wasn't then, I'm talking back in the '60s,

what is it is now. Things changed. I think things fundamentally

changed back when the terrorist campaign started in the late '60s.

That caused profound problems in Northern Ireland, which I think we

still live with to various degrees. Now, my point is, I think what we

have seen at Stormont has made things worse, not better. I see

what you mean. I mean, I think a lot of children don't have the

opportunity outside school either to integrate. I think it's the

responsibility of the parents, but also those at Stormont to make sure

that that can happen? That has been where the big failure has been, at

Stormont. It's appropriate in this particular week to nail it where it

is, the problem stems from Stormont. A young man here, just on the very

end here. Go-ahead. APPLAUSE

What would you suggest should be done to solve this problem at

Stormont? It's being well you coming out tonight and saying that

there is divide and you have to affiliate with being unionist or

nationalist, what do you suggest can be done about this? How old are

you? I'm 23. When you say, "what can be done" I bang on about this

on the radio every single day of my life. Realise the power you have.

The pressure I put these boys under, you can put them under more

pressure. You employ them. What do you want your Northern Ireland to

be like? Isn't the problem, young people of this gentleman's age, and

others, unfortunately, many of them vote for the two tribes up at

Stormont. They actually, I'm not saying you in particular,

unfortunately the majority of young people put their X in a place which

causes the very problems that people complain about. At the very

front here. I would it disagree with. That I would say that the

young people of that young fellas age and younger are not voting

because they can't see that it will make any difference, so they decide

not to vote. It's the same people voting time and time again.

APPLAUSE The Chairman of the Community

Relations Council is here, where are you Tony? What progress are we

getting in terms of where we should be now? Where is this shared future

document that was promised to the people of Northern Ireland, where

This document that was published a number of years ago was rejected by

the Executive. They were meant to come up with an alternative?

produce their own document and consulted on that and were meant to

make a decision and they still have not. Two years of nothing. Yes.

That document was condemned widely. There was not one measure of

support for it because it was a document with very little in it and

very little for the future. How are they getting away with two years of

nothing? You must be pretty in the tent that you cannot put pressure

on them to create a document? got them to produce a draft

document. Draft! There was no document on a shared future when

David Trimble and Seamus Mallon were involved and none when Mark

Durcan and David Trimble were in charge and none when Ian Paisley

and Martin McGuinness were involved. So getting a draft document was a

significant achievement. We have got a group working on it but they

are failing to deal with the issues as seriously as all those that

responded wanted. This is the problem, the document will not

solve anything, it is essentially rhetoric. A strategy document sets

the way in which the Government would operate. It is accompanied by

an action plan and we would do something about shared education,

about how we display flags. problem is, rhetoric is no

substitute for effective action and the problem for you, David, you

were in government, which is profoundly based on polarisation

and division. Tony, who would you all responsible for no document?

Essentially it is the documents that are meant to emerge from the

Executive and they amended take responsibility. In spite of the

delay in producing the document, the communities they doing this

themselves. The issue is not so much about the document itself, it

is that the people in power have the responsibility for these big

areas, education, tackling the peace lines, tackling issues of the

past, all of these issues have to be tackled by the Executive. But at

local level, communities are getting on with it, crossing the

divide, and the communities beside those peace lines are working

closely together. That point about tackling Interfaces, the reason

there is a gate opening in Alexander Park is because people

wanted it and the Department of Justice worked with the city

council to bring that about. It doesn't matter to judge that the

two largest parties were doing it, we did that because the parties

were doing something about it. will be aware of the argument that

some politicians have an interest in keeping this divide, there may

be some votes by them and their self-interested in this divide.

think we should applaud ourselves. We have come on 20 years. 20 years

ago, 25 years ago, Belfast city centre was a ring of iron. Do you

want children to be educated together? Catholics and bodies and

sitting together? Absolutely. they delivered it? No. Why not?

am not accepting it. We do not get asked more. Users now, send a

message up to the hell, what do you say to them? Get it done, get

talking. We have had 40 years of talking, it has been there for 14

years. Nothing has happened for 14 years.

Let's get some telephone calls. Hello, Christine? My girl was 10

years after Holy Cross with her boyfriend, she has been a mixed

relationship, nobody needs to be told what happened at Holy Cross,

or sectarianism and all of that, how did she manage to do with that?

Howard they happily living together? They are to art students.

She has no problem in a mixed relationship? No hassle or abuse?

Well, Stephen, no, they have not. The kids their own age when they

were younger, they would have got some abuse, but they rose above

that and they rose above it in a good manner and in a good way. So,

why can't, as I said before, all right, the men in Stormont, the

politicians, they have ideas and experience and experienced the

Troubles and all of that. These kids have experienced it as well.

They can learn a lot from them kids. Thank you. Up at the back. It seems

the two main parties are using this as a political manoeuvre. If they

continue keeping this sectarianism bear, keeping the community is

divided and keeping the poor votes. I am in a situation where I have

got to speak for Peter Robinson's party at Matra McGuinness's party

because they cannot bring anybody here to talk to you. What they

would say is they would say, look how they are working together. Did

you ever think it was achievable? Peter Robinson has said that we

need to cherished different sense not make it a division. We need to

not make it into Division. That is the likes of what he would say.

That is greater as a sound bite, but every time when it comes to an

issue, or you get his sniping and sniping and nothing gets done.

Describe the Northern Ireland you want to live them. One that is

different than what we have. If you see the everyday working-class

people and the middle-class areas that get on, they go to work every

day in their officers. But there will be some people, I have not

heard from people here yet, and they do not want to live with a

Catholic. They do not. These people are here in this audience tonight.

They have that ibid. They do not want their children to Setanta next.

There is a guy you're bursting has got to get in. The -- bursting his

guts to get in. I have two young boys that will both be going

through education and I think it is the Oni way forward. The divisions

we have all suffered and we have all had trouble in the Troubles, we

need to put it behind us and say, people are people, just get on with

it. These boys in Stormont haven't a clue, to be honest. It is the

people on the ground. APPLAUSE OK, hopefully we have

started some of this debate tonight, to follow on on the radio tomorrow

morning. We will be on BBC Radio Ulster at 9am tomorrow morning if

you want to pick up the telephone. Thank you for coming in, David, and

telling the people what you think of this issue. I appreciate it.

APPLAUSE Coming up: Rats, I had been on the streets tackling this

vermin. I do not like it to appear at all.

I don't care if there are rats appear! I don't like it!

My next guest shot to fame with Atomic Kitten, the girl group, aged

She was secretly filmed taking cocaine at which cost around

endorsement deal with Iceland. She has filed for bankruptcy since then

and has been treated for bipolar disorder and that is all in one

lifetime. She is still only 31 years of age. Please welcome Kerry

Katona! You have got an intriguing live

story. Really! A story of survival. I was born a fighter, born a

survivor, you can knock me down, but you cannot keep me down.

spent time in care? Yes, four sets of foster parents, I was in refuges,

I went to a different schools. I first memory is being three years

of age and watching my mother the slit her wrists. That is why I have

got my children. Why did she do that? Self-harming. In those days,

it was called manic depression. It was all that I knew. I was an only

child. I will not blame her for my mistakes, I am a grown woman.

read in your book that one prevailing image that I had from

her book, was when you saw your mother lying on the kitchen floor

and blood on the kitchen lino. Yes, battles when I was put on

foster care. We were in a refuge, the Salvation Army, and a mother

took me out of school and be moved to London. We moved with her

boyfriend who had just come out of Parkhurst. Steven Spielberg

couldn't write this! Attitude to a movie! -- I should do a movie!

like to already! Humour is a defence mechanism. I'd take the

mickey at myself. Let me get back to my suicidal story! It was my

mother and her boyfriend had been out where they steal credit cards

and they go out and do whatever they do. We came home and my mother

was very aggressive. He beat my mother Robyn the car and wanted me

to hijack a bus. I had literally turned 13. He beat up my mother, he

beat me up, told us he was Freddie Kruger. He wanted to cut our feet

off so we could not run off, chop our hands off so we could not phone

anyone. He stamped my mother. I pulled a knife out of my mother's

leg and she passed out from the blood. He passed out with alcohol.

He were telling this very effortlessly. -- you are. The

impact this would have on you as a child on any human being, is that

what Mr Watts in later life? don't think it was just that. -- is

that what mess you up in later life. I was a really, really good kid, I

was an only child. I was always the parent, my mother was the child. At

14 and is only allowed supervised visit with my mother. She had a

girlfriend then. She lost my step dad. It is very complicated! Get

the book expect it is much easier! My mother gave me my first drug

when I was 14. She said it was sherbet. It was speed. I didn't

know any different. He took drugs from 14? Yes, I didn't know

anything else. You lie down with dogs, you get fleas. You have

things in your head that that is how life is supposed to be. I knew

no different league. Every chapter in your life, there is a massive

incident that would flatten most people. Yes. I had been through the

mill. In 2007, a major robbery. was held hostage by three masked

men when I was married to my second husband. They had a sledgehammer, a

butcher's hook and at carving knife. Obviously, I'm scared of Nye's

because of the incident when I was 13 which I told you about. --

scared of the knives. A dispatch a fight, I went into the Priory, I

could not go back to the house. But are unable to cope with that.

you describe a nervous breakdown to me? I was hysterical, I could not

stop crying, I was shaking. When I left my home, there were 15

paparazzi outside my front door constantly. To be in faded inside

my home, I felt like I was violated. -- invaded. The fact that they

thought that my husband at the time had something to do without, it

messes up your head about and also why was on drugs as well. You do

not know what to believe any more. I had been clean for two-and-a-half

years now. After this interview, I may need to

double by Afghan coat gets back what is the Priory like? -- and

might need a double vodka and Coke after this interview. I want to

make a truly clear, the Priory for me was a break, it was a holiday

break. It did not really happening much. Up until I went to a place

called Arizona for six weeks when my first husband went and I broke

down. When that incident happened, I felt a failure as a wife, a woman

and a daughter. When you cannot force someone to love you. All I

wanted was a family unit after what I went through as a kid. Arizona

have to be massively, but I fell off the wagon again. At his back on

drugs up and allow went to a place called GI Jane boot camp. I went

for two weeks in 2010 and it was pure exercise. It was six, seven

hours a day. I do a lot of a DAX I need your diet regime! -- I do well

lot of it! That changed my life. I was diagnosed as bipolar, I was on

prescription medication, is taking drugs, cocaine was my best friend.

I had no friends, no family, my mother sold my story. G I Jane boot

camps changed my life. The doctor said to go to the gym and exercise.

My exercise was to lines of cocaine and a kebab. That is what I

exercise was. We sought that you were phoned in her home and we saw

some of the footage, and this was paraded around. -- we looked at

some of the footage of you that was filmed in your home. The footage of

the taking drugs and that infamous footage. It was in the News of the

World. Yes, that was what was leaked in my own house, in my

You were taking coke? I know what you are going to say. I'm not

going... I will sit here and hold my hands up. I will take full

responsibility for my actions. No- one forced me to do anything much I

was a messed up lost soul. You were parading yourself as Mum of the

Year? No. I paraded myself as Kerry. I want to make it clear. All these

stories in the papers, I've been hacked. I'm in an investigation

with them right now. If I wasn't hacked, I could of coped with these

demons and issues going on in my life so much more privately.

Unfortunately the stories get hacked. Are you sure it was hacked?

The police called me in last year. 22 voice messages. Files on me. I'm

in a case at the minute, which I can talk about, because the News of

the World has shut down. There is 480 odd articles from a period of a

year. Let me say, people go, she wants to be on front cover of

papers and magazines. I wasn't. The stories were being hacked from my

phone. The circle goes in like that, then out and out. I have to get my

story across. Some of the newspaper journalists would counter that with

saying, look, you can make big money in endorsements with a

certain celebrity image. Therefore, they wanted to tell the public all

of the truth, the whole picture? Absolutely not. Not just about

phone-hacking. I'm talking about if there is someone taking cocaine.

That is a different story. public perceive them. I get what

you're saying. As being Mum of the Year. I get what you are saying.

The face of Iceland. I understand that. Wh annoyed me more than

anything. They wasn't helping the situation. When I was trying to get

clean. There was another story on the front page of the News of the

World. I became isolated. I didn't leave my house for six months much

I lost my friend and family. I thought they were selling my story.

I got clean, a story came out. Cocaine is there for me when I'm

down. It picks me up when I'm alone. I fell out of love with it. When

you say were alone? I was. Did you not see who I was married to at the

time. I have friend for a life. When something goes wrong they are

there. Did you not have that? didn't. I fell out with my mum. My

mum sold a story on me. I haven't spoke to her for a few years. It is

a dangerous relationship we have. The man I was married to isolated

me from away from everybody. I'm a strong person. I lived on my own

from the age of 16. I was a mum, my mum was a daughter. My second

husband took that away from me. My first marriage was so devastating,

I was in a rush to fix it with the wrong person. With my second

husband, cocaine was a massive factor between us both. If I go

through your story so far. How long are you on air for? The next two-

days. You watched domestic violence during your childhood. One incident.

Your mum has been stabbed with a knife. You are involved in a major

robbery. You take a break down. You are paraded over television with

slurred speech on This Morning. You are paid bankrupt with a tax bill

you can't pay. Here is your question, how do you fight it? For

every person who has tragedy in their life, where do you get that

strength from? What is your plan? The strength I got from, if I could

answer it I would bottle it up and sell it and I would be richer than

I am now. Because of the life experience from a very young age, I

have been given the tools to cope. All I know is how to fight. Now,

what I really, really want to do more than anything is set up a

reborn centre. It's like rehab. I come out, put weight on, get back

on the gear. It's masking a problem, it's exercised base. Rehab has a

stigma of drink and drugs. It's rubbish. People have been abused.

Low self-esteem, money issues, loneliness. It's all kinds of

factors. The last 15 minutes have been intriguing with you. You have

a twinkle in your eye? Have I? are a fighter. We have all enjoyed

listening to you. Thank you. I wish you the very best for your

challenge in life and your journey in life. Thank you for having me.

If you want to tweet us tonight : Here is what is still to come:

20,000 people here may be at risk of losing their DLA. Is that the

best way to make saition to the public purse? -- savings to the

public purse? This little graphic here, this is the Government magic

roundabout. Why, because two public authorities, government giving

government giving the run around each saying the other should pay

for vermin control. This story is known as Ratgate! Get this for a

ding-dong. There is a scrap going on between two public bodies over

who pays to keep the rat population in our suers at pay. -- bay. For

the last 40 years the water service has paid the council to lay rat

poison in the sewers. Last year, they decided it wasn't their

responsibility and they passed the buck back to Pest Control at the

council. Northern Ireland Water straight in there. No obligation on

them to bate the sewers. The message loud and clear from

Northern Ireland Water. We are phasing out the �60,000 a year we

used to pay you.. We will give you �25,000 this year and �10,000 the

next. The council will not take this lying down. You own the sewers

waterboard so you are responsible for the destruction of rats on your

land. But when these two battle it out, our furry friends are

multiplying big time and we are seeing more and more of them below

Every pest controller we spoke to had tales of rats running amok in

Belfast buildings and streets. Can you actually see, as the money

has gone down, it has already gone down, as that money has gone down,

can you see an increase in the rat population? I personally have

probably had 20% more calls over even the last few months in Belfast

than I would normally have. Nolan Show has taken calls for help

left right and centre. There has been a Rattin vestation in the

staff restaurant of Belfast City Council. Surely, the last straw,

are recenting sightings in our hospitals and childrens care homes.

The residence ever the lower or mow have seen the odd rat because they

are so close to the river. In recent months the place is crawling

with them. Somebody needs to get their finger out. Just over the

last five months it must be something like over 200 rats has

been captured in this street by one of the local lads that comes down.

The other week he put a ferret into a hole into the side of one of the

houses, this thing came out and it was nearly the size of a fox. It

comes from the sewerage. I have got five caught out my backyard. Two

caught in the front garden. I mean, that's seven just in my house alone.

I have a grandson. He loves animals. He would approach one rather than

run away. That's what I'm afraid of. We videoed one an it'sed it with a

stick, you want to have seen them going mad with a stick. It was an

adult. What would it do to a child? It would be on top of them in no

You know me, I'm tough and brave and hard.

# Let me be your hero... # When the need is, there I'm a man's

man. I'm seriously not happy about this. Where are we going? Up a dark

entry? Up here, aye. # I can be your hero, baby... #

I really don't like up here at all. I don't care if there is a rat or

no rat up here. I don't like up here. I think I hear something. Oh,

sweetmamma. There's rats there. That is, obviously, rats have been

moving here. I bet Gregory is not crying about how much I earn now,

out in the night trying to find rats. They are more afraid of me

than I am of them. They are more afraid of me than I am of them.

Ahh! NO! Over the next 24-hours the Nolan team look down manholes. Up

enteries. Under floorboards. Now, look what turned up under the

floors of a very well-known public building. This rat, outside a

couple of busy city centre restaurants. High profile, you will

Rats love drains in this condition, full of nooks to breeds. When they

are all clogged up, there's plenty to eat.

# It's a rat trap, and you've been caught #

If you don't like poison in the sewers, you will get more rats,

they then go on to our streets and houses. The question is, which is

Well, what is going on? Do you want to know what is going on, ladies

and gentlemen? You bet we do. Let's hear from the Belfast City Council.

Please welcome councillor Pat McCarthy. Good to see you.

APPLAUSE What's going on? Well, June of last

year we received a letter from Northern Ireland Water saying that

they were terminating the contract to bit the suers, we had this

contract for 40 odd years it was at a cost of �59,000 a year in which

we baited over 16,000 man holes in the city to try and keep the rat

problem under control. Basically, you lot are saying, that NI Water

should pay for it. NI Water are saying you should pay for. It while

this is going on, the rat population has gone up. The baiting

is not happening as it should happen, right? The baiting is

happening. Not as much as it was? It is, Stephen. We are baiting it

up to the price of �25,000, which they said they would pay us this

year. We will continue to... Investment was at �60,000? It was

at �59,000. Then they said they were going to stop it completely.

We objected. They said, we're cutting it down to �25,000 for this

year and then next year they are cutting it to �10,000 and then

stopping. Is Belfast City Council going to pay �60,000, the level it

has always been? Under the mice destruction act... Pat Please.

you know how terrified I am of this? I'm sure a lot of people in

the audience would be too. You're winding me up!

APPLAUSE These are ones we caught earlier.

Oh, right! It's great you are all clapping. Let's just see who

clapped the loudest there now. Where are we going here? Never seen

you move so fast, Stephen. Oh, my sweetmamma. What is in that box is

two furry things that nearly look lovely. Look at the tail. They're

going up that tube. Look at the The not a pleasant sight!

something about it! Get it sorted! We have written to Northern Ireland

Water. They have written back! We are road to Northern Ireland Water

to ask them to meet to discuss this. We have a draft document on

sectarianism, and you have asked for a meeting! I earn money in this

country asking people in a authority to just do it! All you

have to do is to wait to get rid of me! We are as serious issue, we are

continuing to debate the Sawers. Anything that we get, any call-outs

we get, we go straight there. asked Northern Ireland Water to

come on the programme this evening, and this requires a reconstruction!

At very expensive reconstruction graphic this evening!

APPLAUSE Stop milking it! We July to hear their statement?! -- would

you like to here. If alive human beings from many regard as Asian

cannot come in, then we make sure that this statement sings from the

rooftops. -- if a human being from any place cannot come in. Joe line

in and give us a hand. -- Jain end. It isn't fair to continue to

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 74 seconds

That was so bad, it was absolutely brilliant! Thank you. And you for

that statement! Thank you. We APPLAUSE Lots of you have got in

touch with us. Please keep that coming in. Here is

APPLAUSE Stephen,, appear! -- come on appear. We need a

reconstruction! This is what you did not see! This is our floor

manager. Why that tape was going out, he forgot to take away the rat,

so at five seconds to go, someone said, summer and the gallery said

so, let's recreate it. -- someone in the gallery said. It was like

go! That was it! APPLAUSE The hilarious thing is,

BBC health and safety will have a heart attack! Unfortunately we

cannot get text messages from the Orange network, do not text us, we

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it has been estimated that half a million people in the UK are likely

to lose their benefits when the disability living allowance is

replaced by the press a Independent payment. It is part of cutting the

annual benefit bill by �2.4 million and is likely to affect 20,000

people in Northern Ireland. A big subject. Get rid of scroungers

sitting at home happily living off the State, that is what I next

guest thinks, will come broadcaster, Jon Gaunt. -- welcome. Stop

punishing the disabled, that is what Donna Dawson is here to

propose. You know better, Jon Gaunt than the people that are taking

benefits, than to call them scroungers, because many of them

deserve them. Not all people on benefits are scroungers, but

undoubtedly, there are some people swinging the lead, and we need to

look at austerity in every area, and when you look at the living

allowance, people are put on it and never get taken off. 70 % are never

taken off. The need to assess that because people with real

disabilities and real problems do not get the help they require.

William Hague has said across the water that of somebody loses a limb,

that does not necessarily mean that they are entitled to the allowance.

Yes, it is all about disability, he does not mean that you can always

get about. I had a radio producer that was completely blind and he

did not take The DLA because he could get around, he did not need

it. People think it is their right to have it, and everyone takes it.

It needs to be looked in a different way. It is the same with

incapacity benefit, there are too many people on it, and 80 % of

people on this could actually work. They are not incapacitated. I would

not disagree that every benefit system could do with restructuring

and looking at more closely, but this present campaign by the

Government is nothing more than a cynical attempt to balance their

books on the backs of society's most vulnerable members. It is

about saving money. Bass said a target. They say they want to save

�2 billion. When you said a campaign within a matter of money,

you will reach that goal a matter what stands you take. By the same

token, you're prejudice to those people with disability, it is like

saying, do they take sugar? When you talk about people with a

disability, you treat them differently, they are not, they are

equal but different. You have to remove this benefit culture

ideology that this country is under at the moment. Not enough money in

the pot! I understand that. But if you make a cost effective campaign,

they did not set out St lets how you help the disabled and save

money? We are saying, we will save money and this is a cost-cutting

exercise. Let's look through some of the text messages. You can call

us tonight. The proposed changes would exclude assessment process.

Nothing wrong with that? There would be two components, linked

activities, eligibility will be based on the Independent ability to

get around? Anything wrong with that? As long as it is judged

fairly. You cannot say that because a man as they prepare sickling but

they are perfectly fine. -- you cannot say that because somebody

has a prosthetic limb that they are absolutely fine. The problem is,

the way to structure its now, they rushed ahead and said people with a

disability have to wait six months before they can even claim. There

was soon much the Rory about that that they backed off. People in

residential homes can no longer have disability allowance, that had

to be backed down on. They hired private companies to monitor people.

People are motivated to get people off benefit! That is not the way to

do it! You will both be in trouble tonight if Monica doesn't get in,

Monica Wilson. Can I say, Peter White, I presume, is your producer.

The. A private Makis, people have to apply, you can choose if you

apply or not. -- the point I would make years. Let's start with the

press will independence payment, for example, be using a number of

components and one of them is being able to cook, make a meal and to

look after yourself, and so they say you can make a meal in a

microwave. They do not say you can think about what you want to eat,

but you can prepare your food, and you can use and of them and plan a

menu. So, what they're doing his, they are restricting. Nothing has

to change. He went to carry on why the world changes? He were talking

about the small details. If you look out these benefits, Stephen is

correct, people need to be reviewed so the people in greatest need will

get it. The same with incapacity benefit, how can you live with an

idea about 80 % of the pot that are in incapacity benefit to met Peter

be on it. I am fed up of paying for scroungers! So many people want to

talk about this. Let's bring in line to, Deborah, you have had it

taken off the? Yes, one year ago this month. Why? They called me

into the tribunal and put me through health. I took a friend

with me that has qualified as a solicitor last year. She did a lot

of work, so she came with me and we came out and buy a friend said that

it was bloody horrendous. Tell people what the condition is that

you had? Ahead bowel cancer, so why did not have a small bar, so my

life revolved around the toilet. I can be on the toilet all night and

day, so I am not employable. had bowel cancer and a to cure de

la of few? Yes. What do you say to that lady sitting at home? And I

cannot comment on that, that individual case, all I can say is,

and I feel for her, just the basic facts, most people on De La are

never taken off it. That is fundamentally wrong. That lady

might need it. Incapacity benefit, 80 % of people, 40 % go back to

work. We would have a lot better society of free kicks these people

out of bed and got them back to work because they did get respect!

It is to have people that want to work! We do not take it off

everybody! I am talking over you because you told over everybody

else! Chief executive, Massa,? think you're oversimplifying an

extremely complex thing with people with mental health difficulties. A

lot to be both mental health difficulties are on this DLA. I

work as an advocate with people that are facing reassessment of

their DLA. They may be hanging on to recovery or even their sanity by

a fingernail. Do not shut me down. Let me speak. Sometimes when they

come into us, there are too afraid to open the brown envelope because

it is from a The DLA and they want somebody with them. They are

convinced. That is true in some places, but some people are

swinging the lead when it comes to depression and mental illness.

They're using it as a new form of getting enhanced benefits. That

makes no difference to people with real disability! Go ahead. It John,

your attitude stinks. If you're a real gentleman and

showed some respect and let these people to speak and stop talking

them down, it would do you the world of good! Second row here.

This is paid out to the public purse, what about last year, Trans

link, 85 % in the red, lost out to the public purse. This is a

different story. This was paid out to people on disability. I said

they were too many people scrounging, I did not say that

everybody with a disability is doing that. I said people are

getting away with it and there must be blasts a man said these people

because the percentages are doing so much. Go ahead. Picking and

vulnerable people will be the end of society. He wants to pick on

people that do not deserve the benefit. People that have lost a

limb, they deserve benefits. Even if they can get around and work?

What servers are you doing to people if you can live on a life of