Episode 3 The Nolan Show

A pause hello, well, we are live on BBC One. Here is what we have got

to read. The biggest shake-up for a generation is coming our way.

Some people are furious over benefit changes that have already

It could be anyone, that could put them in a bad situation.

Parents' anger at the cost of kitting out that their kids in

branded deer. The thigh wanted to buy branded goods for my kids it

should be my choice, but it is not, it is dictated to me.

And love them or hate them, you cannot escape them, ladies and

gentlemen, Jedward are live in our Will come along, thank you for

joining us on the BBC. There is lots to get through

tonight, and we need you at home to get involved, as well. Here is how

If only you had seen that. The floor manager went scudding over

the whole studio! How you doing, welcome at home, the details will

be coming up on screen as to how to get in touch. We have a bit of fun

at the end of the programme tonight. It certainly was not much fun in

the Assembly last eight, because late in the night our MLAs hoarded

in favour of the biggest shake-up of social security benefits for

decades. This is called the Welfare Reform Bill. It sounds pretty

boring, but after a knew what, if you are on DLA, housing benefit,

unemployment benefit, things could be changing for you'd big time. If

you are not but you resent people who are, you will also want to be

part of tonight's discussion. Controversial stuff, loads of

uncertainty and a lot of fear. Big savings in benefits, the budget

plan, DLA, disability living allowance, that is being replaced.

Housing benefit, that is one of their areas there will be a big

squeeze. There will be people who turn down jobs to stay in benefits,

their money could be stopped for up to three years. Is the spitting on

the poor, or standing up for hard- pressed taxpayers? With us tonight,

Alex Maskey off the Sinn Fein, and the man earmarked -- earmarked as

Simon Hamilton. The big Tory idea is that the heart of this, it gets

people off benefits and into work. That's look at what George Osborne

said that the Conservative Party conference this week.

Where is the fairness for the shift worker, leaving home in the dark

bows of the early morning, he looks up at the closed blinds of their

next-door neighbour, as slipping off our life on benefits. --

slipping off a life on benefit. When we say we are all in this

together, we speak for that worker. Simon Hamilton, let me quote one of

your colleagues, he said that he reckons there are jobs out there

for people if they really look for the infrastructure you agree?

Everybody understands we're in difficult economic times and jobs

are skiers. We have had increasing rates of unemployment in Northern

Ireland over the last few months, to the point we are higher than the

UK average. Yesterday we were focusing on, clearly we were on how

we deal with unemployment, but there was quite a lot of unanimity

on agreeing some of the principles behind the Bill, like trying to get

people ready for work and moving people out of work into work. There

are a lot of people in Northern Ireland to have been out of work

and their family for generations... But do you believe in the principle

of what George Osborne as saying? That there are too many people on

benefits and they should get up and get out to work? I don't think it

is a good peak -- good thing to have people on benefit. We should

be getting people ready to go into work if it is there for them. I

don't think anyone would disagree with that. We agreed to across the

Assembly last night that this welfare reform will have negative

effects on a lot of people, particularly in Northern Ireland.

Would you say you support the support it -- the core cramps at --

support the core principles of the Bill?

We did. Be you think there are too many

people in Northern Ireland on benefits, load of people swinging

the leg? I would say there are a lot less

people are Northern Ireland on benefits, I would like to see more

people in work. Do you concede that the vast

majority of people on benefits or off benefits are there because they

cannot get a job? The air are people on benefits for

a lot of reasons. A lot of people are out of work or on low incomes

or have disabilities. There is no dispute that there are higher-than-

average numbers in Northern Ireland on benefits for valid reasons.

A Alex Maskey, do you agree with him now? I think the good thing

about the Assembly debate last night was that for all of the

parties to some degree or another, we acknowledged there were

fundamental problems with this bill. I think that was important. The

good thing is, there is a lot of agreement around the chamber about

what the problems are. Fundamental problems with the bill

that was passed last night. That is OK, people have made their choices

to support the Bill or not. That is now over. The parties in the

Assembly passed the bill in the second stage.

He does not think they were fundamental problems, do you? He

what were the fundamental problems in that build? Fundamental problems

people in Northern Ireland will be facing? There were issues around

unanimity across the board across all parties. There were issues

about how it would affect some of the most honourable in society,

disabled people, cancer sufferers. These are things that have been

pushed through in Westminster, and unfortunately my own party voted

against these reforms. In Northern Ireland we are restricted by parity.

If we breach that we have been picked up the bill are Matt --

ourselves on this. We do not have the money to pay the large welfare

bill there is in Northern Ireland, so we are restricted. What I am

trying to establish tonight, now that this bill has passed that

stage, and you can be amendments, what do you think the fundamental

problems are that people should be frightened about? For stubble, it

is very clear from George Osborne and others like him that this is an

attack on vulnerable people for the most part. If there are people

swinging the leg, as you discredit, then the Department have to say to

themselves, they have to stamp out fraud. The problem is, you could

have listened to what the Tories are saying about creating jobs. The

biggest problem here, we know, is there is a long, historical problem

of unemployment, and that is not getting any better. The big problem

is, and you have touched on this yourself, there are a lot of people

on low incomes, and a lot of them have some benefits or perhaps at

tax credit. They are all at risk now. Let me get a sense from the

audience tonight. A delight to address this issue by

asking, why should the young people of Northern Ireland raising

families have to cut back on all benefits, especially housing

benefit? Will the Government come out when we are in difficulty and

offer us a hand to pay our rent? Are you unemployed?

I am, yes. For how long?

I have been unemployed for 15 years because I cannot get work.

A wide? Be does not want to employ me.

I heart have you tried? I have tried very hard.

I have been down to the dole office every fortnight for the last 15

years filling out application forms. Sending them to different

programmes to try and better myself. Do you think, until you get a job,

you should have things paid for you? Or I just don't think they

should be cutting back on housing benefit.

Well, the Tories clearly think, and some of the others, that it will

motivate you more because, needs must, did you get to the stage

where you have not got a roof over your head you will get up and get a

job. That is what some would argue. A if I was handed a job tomorrow

morning, I would do it to come off benefits.

Over here. I have worked all my life and paid

my taxes, and I agree with these welfare changes. It is about time,

because once they are publicised -- because people seem to be getting

houses, benefits, everything paid for them. I get nothing, I worked

for what I get. Do you not believe 15 years? That is a long, long time.

So, you don't believe him. They need to going to training,

something needs to be put into place to help them. A what would

you say to that lady? That Lady probably does not well

what she is talking about. We want to get off benefits. If we could

find a job, we would take it. Everyone in this audience who

laughed, thick about what you did, you made a value judgement about

somebody because they have not got employment for a long time. Is that

fair? You laughed at him. I don't know him, but at the end of the day,

how do you know he is not desperate for work? How do you know the

system is not loaded against him? How do you know these new cuts will

not put somebody like that gentleman out onto the street?

To get back to the lady in the audience, you have made a reported

putt, you have worked all your life and paid contributions, but this

welfare reform goes through -- if this goes through unamended, the

contributions you have made - and there are probably a lot of people

in this audience worried about their own jobs as they sit in this

run tonight but we have to also understand of this welfare bill

goes through without changes, your contributions will be worthless,

because they will be disregarded after 12 months. You have lost a

contribution, and I don't think that is fair because you have

worked all your life. The people in this audience who are working full-

time, need to be aware this bill will likely impact yourselves.

the bottom line is, it was passed last night, and the bottom line is,

every time are you lot were pushed about laying down a petition of

concern, he did not do it. You could have blocked it. You could

have killed it and you didn't. They say that we could have blocked

it, and we could have said to the DUP, Martin McGuinness could have

said that it is not going on their agenda. As Peter Robertson can do

with other issues. If we had said it is not going on the agenda, and

I can tell you because I am on our leadership, we took the decision,

we considered blocking it. The Bill will not goalie, it will have to be

addressed at some point. -- it will not Gourlay. It is possible that

build to go through. It could go through. And you lot doing all the

grandstanding, saying it is terrible, but your constituents

will not have been protected. me finish, because we could have

said we would pocket, but the bill would still come back. It had to be

dealt with. Un-view was to take the responsible approach and try to get

the bill changed. -- our view. Our device yesterday was calculated, we

wanted to make sure that all the parties would nail their colours to

the mast and say what they felt about the mill, that we may have

got a deferral of the vote had been tipped as well. That would have

allowed us collectively to go back to the British Government to say,

you recognise our circumstances are worse than England. Let us have a

bill that meets our people's needs. We have said we will not support

the Bill, unless there are some changes to it. What are the red

lines? We have said there are simple things. Spell them out.

We have said, for example, this is the subject the monthly payment.

The monthly payment does a number of things. It will put a lot of

people on low money into debt. It will impact on women, because most

women would be the main carer in the family. That is a reality. If

you then give all the money once a month to the head of the household,

most of the time it will be the man. That means you are wit -- moving

social equality back 50 years. A OK, if that is not fair and it is

not right, that is all fine saying that tonight. There is only one

question you have to answer tonight - if it is not changed, will you

protect the people who voted for Sinn Fein by telling that build?

will do our very best. That is what we're doing. You had the power to

kill it. I am saying to you, people need to realise, the bill will come

home to roost at some point back. What we're trying to do at this

stage is shaped the bill. Similarly, have you got red lines

This Bill is not perfect. But it would have been irresponsible not

to have let the Bill passed through committee stage. It will scrutinise

the bill, look at the problems and come forward with amendments.

send the message to Westminster tonight. Are there red lines for

the DUP after which you will kill VAT bill? What will be

irresponsible will be not to get it through in the end through some

shape or form. Not to do that it would cost �2 million in Northern

Ireland. Taking over �200 million out of our budget at a time when we

can ill afford to do it will inevitably affect vulnerable people.

We are talking about vulnerable people in respect of welfare. We

would be creating more vulnerable people if they took �200 million

out of our budget. If the coalition governments across the water is

looking at us now, have asked him if there is a deal breaker, he has

not said there is one. The point is this, they know they can call your

bluff because you're not playing hardball because you have an

opportunity to send a message to a night on behalf of the people you

represent a mess to say, and less we get this, and this, it is not

going through. You're not doing it. We are working through it to see if

we have flexibility. We will put those through as amendments at

committee stage if possible. Not to do so would cost our budget �200

million and that will only at upon the vulnerable people of Northern

Ireland. What do you think about this? And very concerned. We

shouldn't be looking at the shape of this and say there are bits we

do like and bits we don't like. It is the purpose of this Bill which

is what is wrong. Not what it may contain. It is to further

impoverish our people. For the sake of argument, if we don't do this,

it will cost �200 million to the Exchequer. I heard your argument

this week. But the same people arguing for a reduction in

corporation tax, which will take at least that amount of money out of

the Budget in Northern Ireland, nobody was complaining about that.

There are other issues in this. Issues of how they treat people.

The minister says in his statement and I read his statement in great

detail. He says in terms of the Bill as it goes through, it will

take 10,000 children out of poverty in Northern Ireland. That is very

laudable. But his department did a poverty report which was published

in June this year. It says there are 93,000 children living in

relative poverty and more living in absolute poverty. But will he do

about the 127,000 of them? What we have heard is a wonderful

example of the dysfunctional a teat that lies at the heart of the

Executive. You have asked straightforward questions and what

you have had his numerous evasions around the bottom line. These would

be the boys that got a vote because you didn't.

Same people resided over the biggest increase in Northern

Ireland for a very long time. I did not interrupt you, do not interrupt

Yuki referring to the importance of killing the Bill. -- you keep. A

lot of people think this Bill is overdue and it is essential because

we have an issue. If politicians are so good us, that they won't

accept it, taxpayers in particular do want to see change. David is on

the line. Details on the screen if you want to call us.

I am a carer for a disabled relative. To be honest, I am on the

brink of saying I have had enough of doing this. If someone was put

into a home, it could be anything up to �1,100 a week. As a unionist,

I am disgusted of the DUP, the Official Unionist Party who all

voted in favour of this Bill. They should have stood their ground. If

we are all in this together, there the MLAs take a 50% pay cut.

Everyone are few clapping tonight prepared to take a 50% pay cut,

because I am not? We're talking about the fact you did not get any

votes and these guys did. It was rejected by the pollsters. Alex,

Alex. Leave the questions to me. I want to go into this, it is

important for us to talk about this. Disability living allowance. Some

of you might not know this, it is going to be replaced with something

called for working-age people, the personal independence payment. One

of the things that will happen under this new legislation is

everybody will be assessed. This is why this is important. Northern

Ireland has the highest rates of disability living allowance claims

in the UK. 10% of our population. In that category, a high as

claimants are people with mental health problems. How comfortable

are you if you voted for this bill? Is it a red line for you making

sure that assessment does not traumatise people who are already

mentally ill? There has to be massive scrutiny of this? If is

important that people who do have problems, whether their problems

are mental or physical, are not further distressed. They will be

assessed people on a three-yearly basis. And then maybe some people

whose circumstances won't change with it is three years or 30 years.

There is not a specific Northern Ireland target where we will see

payments going down by 20%. If people are entitled to it, they

will receive it. On the issues of physical problems and mental health,

there are charities in Northern Ireland who are working at a

national level with the department to ensure some of those issues you

are talking about and potential problems that are they do not

materialise. What is the safety checks within the assessment?

People go for an assessment. Going for an assessment regularly for

some people may be beneficial. will be assessed once, somebody

will call out to their house. What is the assessment safety check?

assessment is made and then it goes to the department and the

Department makes a decision on the basis of that evidence and other

evidence as well. Do you know what company is doing it? I do not know.

But you voted for the bill? contract has not been done.

only point I am trying to make his there is a lot to prove isn't

there? I am not sure what relevance the company doing the work will be

to the principles of the bill. We were voting on the principles of

the bill. It was not on who will be carrying out the contract. What you

have already, you have a privatised company which will do work

capability assessment. They have not been given the contract, they

are on a shortlist. They have been doing work for the department. The

Department a week ago was telling us that the system is flawed and

they are trying to fix it. Reassess people, that is fine, but you have

to put the medical evidence, doctors' reports have to be at the

heart of any reassessment. You cannot have a privatised company

coming in with no medical expertise. Will it be at the heart of the

assessment? It is not at the heart of the assessment. Would that be a

red line for you. We have not said that. With respect, it is either a

deal breaker or it is not. We have said it one of the fundamental

issues that have to be addressed, yes. Then say yes. You can call it

what you want. We have an organisation, we will do our level

best now the bill has been transferred into our committee. I

will be meeting the British Government as part of the party

delegation. We will make a decision then. But it is a fundamental

problem. You are starting to get a sense already it is one of the

issues in this Bill. Even before this Bill there were changes are

made to benefits that are starting to kick in. They are having a

dramatic impact. I went to North Belfast to meet some young lads who

are out of work. One of the changes already brought in, is under 35

goals will have their housing benefit cut in half. SmartMove is a

housing organisation that helps them and you can see how important

it is to some of these people because they do not want to be seen

on camera. The rule come in last year that

anybody under 35 would get a cut in their housing benefit. From �86 a

week down to �43 a week. Bishop not be entitled to a one-bedroomed flat

is somebody working was not able to afford a one-bedroomed flat.

are living in a house at the moment. What will happen in the next few

months? I do not know. And God only knows. You will be hit with a rent

bill, can you pay it? If you get �40 a week, �10 goes to Electricity,

�10 goes towards gas. �10 goes towards food. If you have children,

how do you feed them, clothe them. How do you get them to and from

clothes? Do you have children? I do. Do they live with you? No, I

am separated, but I see them at the weekends. If you cannot afford your

own house, you'll have a shared house and the kids will come to

your shares house? I won't have a shared house, I am not letting them

meet anyone. I won't put them in that situation. I would rather get

a tent and camp. But least you know they are safe because they are with

you. Have you got any chance in the medium or short-term future of

living in a house? Not a hope. I cannot consider. It is not a viable

option. And then get thrown in with people you do not know to live with.

It is not fair. How old are you? How is it affecting you and your

life? I have no where else to go. When my lease runs out in November.

If you are going to put people in shared accommodate -- shared

accommodation, you will see a rise in suicide rates. That has shocked

me. Suicide? You feel inadequate. have met you a few minutes ago. You

have used the word suicide and you have talked about being inadequate.

Why do you feel like that? There are no jobs. I had two interviews

last week. There's nothing out there. At that is why I go down to

the gym. And then I think about Of our people out there working ten

hours a day, there is nobody subsidising their housing, so if

they cannot afford a house, they have do Shearer, so why shouldn't

you? The does not my fault there is no jobs out there. By looking for

jobs, I am doing a course at the moment. It is hard going out there

and I am trying to better myself. It is a hateful place, going on the

brew. So people would argue that people like you should find harder

to get a job. You're not going to be able to stay in a jet -- in a

house that suits you unless you can pay for it yourself. The state is

not funding your lifestyle any more. It is not funding my lifestyle, it

is funding my living. I need food, I need sleep, I need to keep my

children in a safe environment. Physically, you can run into a

brick wall as much as you can. After Robert the seventh or eighth

time, you will realise it is a brick wall. The percentage that

don't get jobs, there is nothing out there. You keep getting slapped,

until you can get slapped no more. Have you sat back and thought about

the realistic prospect that you will be in a hostel or shared

accommodation? I am 30 years of age, and I think I am big and ugly

enough to try and work into a situation where I know what I am

going to do. But it is in the lap of the gods, basically. I am not

asking for a handout, but opportunities. We just need a

chance, simple as that. Now, for all of you who talk about

benefit scroungers and wasters, all that type of language we sometimes

hear, are you seriously telling me those guys don't feel as if they

want to make something of themselves? As that guys said, he

is coming up and get -- against a brick wall. There is a young guy

here, heady you feel when you see that film? They are being told,

moved into a house and share with someone else. By the way, and it

would be popular for me to say this, wealthy pensioners? They get a free

bus pass no problem. Sorry, mum! Universal benefit for pensioners?

Winter fuel allowance, we will give unit, no matter how rich you are.

If you are a certain age, no, you are targeted.

I am a community worker in Bangor, and I work with younger people from

disadvantaged communities in the North Down area. There is a small

percentage of people who tried to swindle ahead and don't want to

work, but under almost young people want to work. The opportunities are

not there for them. Two weeks ago, I had a young fellow who wanted to

go back to full-time education, and they were going to cut his

Jobseekers' Allowance. He would have to pay for it himself, and

that but the man in a impossible position. When you force young

people in an impossible position, people and disadvantaged

communities start to go down to crime or drug dealing to try and

make money. One important point back a bit like to make his, the

people making these decisions, they are not worrying about where the

next heating is coming from... These people, here, politicians in

Northern Ireland. The point is, they are kind of telling you the

decisions are being made across the water. I mean people across the

water, as well. David Cameron was born with a silver spoon in his

breath. Margaret, hello. What do you think?

TELEPHONE :. Stephen, I'll tell you but I think, I am a full-time carer.

I am up at six o'clock in the morning, seven o'clock in the

evening. I get �674 per month in my bank account. A lady that lives not

too far away from me, she stopped me at Tesco's, more or less looked

down on me and laughed at me, and she said, you're getting �600? She

laughed at that. She said, I get Disability living Allowance because

I am depressed, because my husband is an alcoholic. He is on DLA, have

at heart. I have an 18-year-old son, who lives with me... Tried get the

point, Margaret. Thank you for your call. Yes, sir.

By worked for a solid 25 years' unbroken employment and got paid

off five years ago. In the six month period, I was out of work for

one week. There are temping agencies out there, places to go if

you really want a job. I improve, I am in full-time employment now

because I went and looked for a job. I am not against this, but there

are foreign nationals coming into the country, and they are earning

money. They are prepared to do whatever they want. Did you know

what to Government figures show? There are 40,000 were employed now

than five years ago. We're not suggesting there are 40,001 lazy

people. A no, I am not saying there are not genuine cases of people who

cannot get a job, I am not saying that. But, I got a job. All right.

The lady at the front. I would like to say, when we talk

about availability of jobs, the vast majority of jobs have been

created in at Northern Ireland at present are very low wages and part

time. Those on part-time wages get working tax credit, or family tax

credit. You and I as taxpayers subsidising big business to pay low

wages on part-time contracts. The guy at the front. This is an

example of people in Westminster making decisions about a class they

have no clue about. But the DUP and Sinn Fein, they present themselves

as baddies of the working class. But because of Westminster, have

their hands are tied. What is the point of having them? I have been

on benefits for two years. It is not always the people. I founded a

charity for stillbirths in Northern Ireland, and I get up and go to

work as a volunteer, I get my benefits but I volunteered every

day of my life, and I was working seven days a week to do that. I

tell you what, there are no jobs are at their. Maybe the politicians

should sort out a political reform or implement reform to -- before

they start picking on people looking for jobs.

You both saw that film they're off than people who are incredibly

compelling. Call three of them were incredibly compelling, genuine

young men who wanted employing -- employment. What if I paid to you

that you are letting them down because you a load the legislation

to go through? It started across the water, and it got here. --

allowed the legislation. They rely on you, and on you, and on the

political system, and they are being targeted because of their age.

They have been told to share a house, is that fear? There to be --

been told the benefits are being cut, is that fair? Has I don't

think it is fair. At the end of the Day, Westminster pays the bill.

Where is the hope for these guys? think the film was incredibly

powerful, and we can talk about principles, but that is the reality.

What is important moving forward, that everybody is treated as an

individual. But they are not! They are treated as Under 30 five-year-

olds. It is important in terms of dealing with these people as

individuals, not as statistics. would you respond to that, would

you admit you have let those people down? They have no hope because of

this message from Westminster. talk to people like that in my

constituency all the time, I tried to represent people across

different communities. This type of bill, this type of attack on people

affect all communities. Particularly working-class

communities and people on low pay. I can understand what people don't

understand about this. We voted against the Bill, we were trying to

stop the bill. He was against it, you were against it the legislation

now in place at messing up those under 35-year-old wife. It doesn't

matter if you were against it, it is legislated for, it is here, they

will be met out of their homes. just forget about it all then. The

point I am making is, we were against key issues of the bill. We

will be doing our best, but on top of all that, this morning the first

and Deputy First Minister of made at a �27 million investment to help

highly qualified graduates still not working. Where the highest

qualified unemployed people on these islands. People were queuing

out of their daughter get in here tonight, and I appreciate Simon,

you coming income and Alex Maskey. Please give them a round of

applause. APPLAUSE.

Please continue to call income If think welfare reform will be one of

the big topics The Nolan Show will be concentrating on.

Here is what is still to come tonight. They usually caused havoc

when they appear on TV, but what a Jedward going to get up to tonight?

They are live on this studio. There is an issue get into boiling

point among some parents of school children in Northern Ireland. It is

about school uniforms. Parents have been telling me there are schools

forcing parents to buy their kids branded kit. Many of the schools

are also floating Department of Education guidelines. They seem to

be getting away with it. Added to Banbridge to make it -- meet the

Thompson family to hear what is happening to them.

It's school uniforms were brought in so that nobody was made to feel

different. The most expensive clothing my kids have is their P

uniform, because as a rule my children do not wear branded goods.

-- physical education uniform. When it comes to school uniform, you

have to be able to afford it. me through some of the costs

involved here. For an added a sport -- topic of 25%. For Tanya's topic

was �20. For this topic was �20, and for Chris's topic was �20. They

do physical education once, possibly twice a week, so for two

allows a week you are spending upwards of �200 on two kids for two

uniforms. And that doesn't include trainers or shin pads. Our other

love to know what value system these skills - and it is not just

Banbridge but across Northern Ireland - I'd love to know what

value system they think they are instilling in children in Northern

Ireland these days, that bands should matter and not how good they

are at sport. It is not something I have instilled in my children.

is what you're school are saying to these children. It is not something

I haven't told my children, but something the school is. To me,

that is a show-off and a rip-off, an absolute rip-off. Well, let's

take a look at the prices some schools are charging. A strut their

goody - �28. And a top, �33. Socks, �8.

Crowborough socks - �9. An athletics vest - �20.

The Jews a goal, a rugby school, �15, know all whatsoever. Two years

later, the schools say they consulted the parents and, guess

what? They decided the kids needed to be forced to have our logo top.

What happens to the price? It doubles. �15, up to �30. Can you

justify a doubling in the price? Have you thought about it? And the

bigger question - what does it do to a child he feels isolated

because they cannot afford it? One grammar school at -- responded

The idea might be trendy, but this former principal says it was

essential to keep costs down. I realised at that time, these kids

could never afford that. The old uniform grant had built into it �25

for a physical education kit. By David that ceiling. As soon as I

said that, they get companies disappeared, because they could not

give it to me for 25p. That was ten years ago. Here are the guidelines

from the Department of Education. These schools are asking children

to stick to rules, stick to guidelines and they are riding

roughshod all over the departments of Education guidelines. Don't tell

me it is guidelines. I should be able to send them in black shorts,

a blue top, a black skirt and a white top. But you're not allowed.

Sports retailers say the guidelines are out of touch with the realities

of market forces. But many parents are demanding answers. It is clear

so many schools are flouting the rules. Net speak to the man in

charge, education minister, John O'Dowd. Hello Minister. How are

you? There is a lot of parents, as you know, incredibly angry and we

had just heard from one on the programme tonight. Where we are,

schools are insisting on branded low goes for the sports kit. What

is your view? PE kits are part of school uniform so that they fall

under the guidelines. We issued a guidance to remind schools of their

responsibilities. If costs are very high, they are potentially

excluding pupils from their schools. �23 for a grant, wouldn't buy a

pair of shorts. It is to assist multinational companies increase

their profits. The board of governors need to set a policy.

They are charging too much for uniforms. They are restricting the

number of shops parents can buy it in. Instead of increasing this

grants, is wrong. Parents cannot afford it, he will fight for them?

Legislation is not always the answer. We should continue engaging

with the schools. Parents should engage with the schools. If we

don't have results than we will have to refer it again. Why don't

more parents take the schools on? Nobody wants to go up against the

schools because they don't want... I am speaking to you and I am

afraid that my kids are going to hear about it at school. You are

clearly not just angry, I can see it, it does upset you? It really

does upset me. I know what they have missed out on. For what? AP

uniform with a brand name. It sickens me. If I wanted to buy

branded goods for my kids, it should be my choice. I know lots of

you as parents will be discussing this at home. We wrote letters to

both Banbridge schools featured in that film. Only three of them would

say anything about it. What is going on in Northern Ireland?

Wellington School, �39 for a top. �39! What else have we got here.

This one, �50. You tell me, �50! I do not know what the answer is, but

has there been thought gone in? Is that isolating the child? Is it

making a child feel, and for every school to wringers, is it making

any children or any parents feeling they are not good enough because

they cannot where the logo? And when we rights to the schools, the

majority say, we must not get involved. We cannot publicly talk

about it. And all the kids, you are trying to instil in these children,

discipline, respect and the fact they are equal. Discipline and

respect the rules and regulations. A lot of these schools in Northern

Ireland are doing - and a lot of kids should watch this because this

is what they're doing. They are ripping up the department that

education's guidelines. And then they do not talk about it. We did

contact both schools featured in that film and they both did not

want to comment. Hello Colin. What do you think about this? Ridiculous.

Tell me your situation? It was the school uniforms themselves, I could

not afford my older son's uniform to send him to school. He missed

school for over a week. And the youngest boy, I still don't have

their P G E uniform for that, I cannot afford it. What was the

result, you did not have the money to buy a PE kits, how did it make

you feel as a parent? He went in with normal shorts and T-shirt and

the school did not tell him off, but there will come a time when

they will. Is it that important? To all of the headmaster's, and the

board of governors he refused to talk about this. Is a logo that

important? You are a retailer? What do you think? I had been seen this

for a few years from different parents coming into my shop. They

were surprised, they were surprised by the big jump in the price. They

complain to me and I said, talk to the school. It is the only way. It

you think it is a problem, they will be the ones to deal with it. I

refuse to stock any of the branded kit. I thought it was morally wrong

to do so. And no you think there is a conspiracy going on. I don't

think anything, but I am pushed for time. I am saying this, has every

school in Northern Ireland really discussed and sat down and thought

about whether they are isolating a child? Whether a child feels

isolated and does not feel equal because he cannot afford a logo on

his shirt? We will continue this discussion and you can pick up the

telephone on the radio show. It you want to send information about your

school, please do so, we might come back to it. Jedward will be with us

in just a minute, but here's a quick reminder of how you can get

Now, the moment you have all been waiting for. I am terrified. My

next guests shot to fame three years ago on X Factor. Simon Cowell

called them "two of the most annoying people we have had out

here in a long, long time". But somehow, they've managed to

represent Ireland twice at Eurovision. Ladies and gentlemen

please welcome - Jedward! I was sitting back they're watching

you on television. I am terrified of youth. We have flat her. You are

mad. No, you are mad. You are crazy. Why is your her flat? There was no

hairspray. I woke up this morning. I had my hair like this because I

was trying to play the guitar. He wanted to do his her like this. I

said I don't want to do it like that. I said I will have mind this

way, and he will have his that weight. Stephen Nolan will ask

about it. You do get any really into things. So, we are here right

now. We are in Belfast, lied. feel like I am going to play poker.

Do you like this joke. Those two guys who were on earlier were very

serious. I can tell you something. One of those serious guys asked for

an autograph for one of his relatives. You can work it out.

was the one in the grey suit. have given it away. There are crazy

fans outside. It is great to be here. We have 40 and 50 year-olds

in his audience screaming pitch Jedward. This lady at the very

front, why did you just point to yourself? Tell me why you like Jed

that -- Jedward. They are good boys, they are brilliant. Congratulations

on your 700,000 Twitter followers. You get a more Twitter followers.

You have two microphones, is that in case one goes off? Can you sing

any opera? No, and I am not singing tonight. Can I sing opera? Can you

sing?! We have got three albums. And you

had a new one out. The it is called young love. She shall we have a

listen? Party. # I can see you glowing in the dark.

# We are always going to be luminous.

# I will always know where you are. # I can see you glow in the dark.

I will open my shirts if you open yours. Is that really you? No, it

is a stunt double. I had to put a green screen on my body. You cannot

see it. I am only messing. Some people to work out too much.

just a few minutes we had, I want to find out a bit about you. Born

premature? We were meant to be born in January but we were born in

October. My parents did not have anything ready and then we happened.

You did get bullied in school? And I see lots of kids, and lots of

kids follow you. They do admire you, what was the bullying like in

school? It gives us so much. And we can give a lot back to them when

they tell us. What happened to you in school? There was always a

certain group that belt we were wrong. What did they do do you?

lot of things, I don't want to talk about it. Typical stuff. Call us

names and different things. How did you handle it? We had each other.

Four people in school who don't have the twin orc a best friend. We

are there for our fans. Some of our fans have been bullied in school.

It is usually in school, it is like a battlefield. But outside school

you had your own friends. Our fans had made fans across the world.

Jedward fans is a huge community. All this stuff about the X Factor

fix. Is it fixed? This controversy over the last few weeks, are the

judges told by the judges who to pick? We have been in Orkney on a

mountain. Freezing. Then people asking, did you hear about it?

Louis Walsh was asking to go to the toilet and the producers alike,

hold on for a couple of minutes, it is nearly over. What?! I don't know.

When you have got to go, you have got to go. And the producer has

probably been on it for the last nine years and wanted to be on TV.

There was a little dip in the ground and they can put water in

that and they can have a paddle pool. You are mad. I am not mad.

What are you doing Christmas? are you getting on writing your own

stuff for the next album? John is writing songs. All-time pop classic

hits. Over 30 songs so far. It is not like indie rock songs, but pop