Episode 12 The Nolan Show

Civil servant sick leave. It cost the taxpayer here ?30 million last

year. Are some people swinging the lead or is there a genuine problem?

Why should Belfast City councillors be given four free tickets each for

a Van Morrison gig? As a toddler, Melanie Grimsley

sustained life-changing injuries in a fire which killed her sister. We

meet this inspirational young lady who has triumphed over tragedy.

And the winner of The Voice UK, Andrea Begley, will be singing live

in this studio tonight. First up tonight: Civil service sick

leave is on the increase here in Northern Ireland and the empty seats

at the heart of Government cost taxpayers ?30 million in a single

year. What has gone on, it's gone up another ?2 million. So are our civil

servants being pushed to breaking point or are they swinging the lead

at our expense? When you look at the figures, 70% of it is long-term sick

leave, a lot of it down to stress, anxiety and depression. Public

servants have been kicked in the teeth every day by this government.

Last week alone, to public services have been cut, jobs are ready to be

exported to Swansea, hundreds of jobs not being filled. Why has it

come up in the last year? Because pressure is going -- is growing

daily in, day out. Figures out today show civil

servants here missed 10.6 days on average last year due to ill health.

The UK private sector sick leave: 4.9 days! The way in which figures

are counted is an issue. The civil service counts seven days a week. I

am sure the private sector only counts Monday to Friday. But the

statistics are not important. What is important is the underlying

reasons. Lots to talk about tonight. Here's

how you at home can get in touch: the facts are extremely important.

First of all, in the civil service, it -- the most humble level, those

people in Northern Ireland earned 18% more than their equivalents in

the UK. The typical public sector worker earns 44% more than their

equivalent in the private sector is -- so how is it that those two are

paid more and enjoy better holidays and pensions, enjoy all those

benefits, find it a challenge to get out of bed? Because they can get

away with it! And why? Because Bumper and those in the trade unions

coming -- come on this programme and make excuses for them. Outrageous

and ill founded comments! The bulk of sickness is long-term, meaning it

has been signed off and certified by a doctor. So are the doctors in

cahoots with lazy public servants? These people are genuinely sick,

signed off by doctors, and the bulk of the illness is down to stress and

depression. That is caused by people on the right. Strangely, this

depression and stress doesn't affect those in the private sector who

typically are on 4.9 signatories are here. What is about the public

sector that causes these problems? -- 4.9 sick days a year. There is a

significant minority who was swinging the lead. You are arguing

over five days difference, but we hear stories about expenses, and

people I know, you hear about expenses they have. But these people

have their set holidays, and then they have their sick holidays during

the year, and in low and behold, close to Christmas, they get sick.

They are never in bloody work! Do you not know of that? I certainly

haven't seen them in the public service. Unfortunately, the public

services full of them! Data shows the bulk of people is long-term

sick. One in ten civil servants... It has cost Northern Ireland ?139

million. It has cost the taxpayer that. But the level of sickness we

are seeing is inexplicable. If you consider that those in the top

private sector managed to get by with 4.9 days, let's see about

cutting it back by half. In fact, in the past year, it has gone up. I

would like to speak to Bumper. He spoke about people under pressure.

What about people in the construction trade? That's pressure.

He says long-term illnesses are down to depression. If you can't stick

the heat in the kitchen, get out! You have got to be careful about the

sweeping statements. When you need the police, that's a public sector

worker. When you're in the hospital, that's a nurse. The people cleaning

the streets are public sector workers. That's understandable, but

going back to construction, people are under pressure thereto.

Ambulance and nurses and everything else, yes, but what about the office

clerks? Bill and David are trying to make this into an odd comment about

public and private sector workers. At the end of the day, it isn't

about that. The role of trade unions is to try and enhance and improve

the working conditions of the ordinary working person. There is no

want more sympathetic to the mismanagement of the Northern Irish

economy than my trade union. But when it comes to sick leave, I have

to make the point again that people are being signed off sick by their

doctors. Now, somebody is saying here there is a mass conspiracy of

doctors! The first day or two, you're not signed up a doctor. Yes,

but the bulk is. One in ten of those of sick are off for an average of 60

days per year. That's outrageous, but we have such a scenario. That

would not be tolerated in the private sector. You come on an

excuse them, and that's why they do it. People don't get cancer in the

private sector! The private sector is more likely to dispose of those

people. But the taxpayer has to fund the public sector. The other thing

you don't understand is that those in the public sector who swing the

lead are letting down their colleagues who then have to work

even harder. So you are perpetuating the problem. I think we need to deal

with the issue behind the absence and stress management or something

needs to be spoken about in the workplace. People should feel

comfortable talking about stress-related illness. And

actually, stress and anxiety and psychological problems make up a

third of the sickness leave we are talking about here in the public

sector. I think it's across both sectors. I don't think it's a divide

when it comes to that. If people are genuinely ill, there is no issue,

but is it something to do with stress, we all need to be more

comfortable discussing that. These figures show civil servants had ten

points six days of last year. The target was 9.5 days. The Department

of Justice had the worst figures: On average, 13 days of. Disgraceful! It

is being funded by the taxpayer in Northern Ireland, which cannot

afford to indulge in this. Many colleagues were threatened on a

daily basis by paramilitaries. That is what is happening inside a prison

services. The management side is doing next to nothing about it. But

prison officers do not make up the entire public service! I know David

turns up for these attacks on the public sector quite regularly, but

public sector workers pay taxes as well, and if you don't like it, why

are you move to somewhere like Somalia? You don't understand that

the public sector is not well creating. It is funded entirely by

the private sector. If the private sector manager, why can't the public

sector? We have more than double the level

of sickness here than in the put private sector. Why? It is

policemen, paramedics, and nurses that work in the most stressful

jobs. And like somebody who turns up on this show to perpetuate

right-wing views. I am not causing the taxpayer ?30 million per annum

stop there are a couple of points that I want to add in. There are

more older people working in the public sector. There are also more

women, who generally have higher levels of sickness. The problem here

is the management and the leadership. Nobody wants to see high

levels of sickness. It is falling down in the leadership and the

management. There was an issue with the fire service. A woman was forced

onto long-term sickness recently. Why is it worse here than in England

which Mark -- than in England? Northern Ireland has higher levels

of post-traumatic stress. It is the highest in the world. I have seen

the statistics. This is highest in the world. I have seen

annual report that has come out. The speech she made a few minutes ago,

he made it the year before. Over the last five years nearly 120 million.

What could we have done about that? You ought to have been part of the

solution not part of the problem. Here is the report. The report is 90

pages long. 80 pages of that I did. There is not one suggestion in the

report as to how we resolve the problem. The point was made that

people who are older take more sick leave. What is the answer? Make them

work longer saw the problem will exacerbate. That is the sort of

nonsense and lack of attention to detail on the management side.

Someone has tested in to see take away sick pay. Someone on Twitter

has said they would not last a day in the real world.

Go ahead. I am self-employed. If I take a day off I do not get paid.

They are milking the government. You are talking about your friends who

are working in the public sector. Nurses, doctors, Lee's men. I am

talking about anyone who is milking the system. That is what they are

doing. They are able to do it because they get full sick pay for

six months. The comments of David Vance are disgraceful. People are

being attacked in the form of welfare reform. If I take a day off

I do not get paid. There is a statistic in here about women. The

absence level of females, 12.6 days, was substantially higher than that

for meals, 8.8 days, and it remained higher, even when pregnancy related

disorders where taken into account. How do you explain that? This gets

very complex. You have to look at differences between men and women in

terms of health. Setting aside maternity it is the position that

women suffer greater ill health than men particularly June the working

years of life. -- particularly choosing the working years. This is

the usual annual witchhunt of public servants. The management side should

be sitting down with the trade union and trying to get our successful

resolution. That does not mean that we go back to the days that David

Vance wants us to go back to. Maybe we should send the trade Unionists

up the chimney because they are living in the dark ages. All the

details of how to contact us at coming up on the screen.

You are a civil servant Richard Mack -- servant? My wife makes ?2 above

the minimum wage. She is regularly swore at and shouted that and

screamed at. She is a civil servant. She cannot hang up. What is she

getting abuse like that for? She works in benefits. Every day she is

getting sworn that because she has refused somebody there are

benefits. Or somebody makes a big do not want to talk to a woman. --

somebody may say they do not want to talk to a woman. Do you not think

people work in the private sector are putting up with the same levels

of stress? Yes and no. If you work in the private sector you can fill

in your own tax returns. In the public sector there are no perks.

Thank you. Somebody says, stop full pay sick

leave for the public sector. Give our guests around of applause.

Still to come - Belfast city councillors are guaranteed for macro

tickets for the Van Morrison concert, but you at home may not get

any. Is that fair? # Hello, won't you come back Mr

Mark. # Let us remind ourselves of the

details to contact the show. My next guest suffered a major

trauma as a young child. She was only two when she was horrifically

burned in and explained car fire that claimed the life of her older

sister. -- in a car fire that was not explained.

She has battled to maintain a positive attitude to life.

Please welcome Melanie Grimsley. It is lovely to talk to you. Thank

you. You were two years of age when the fire happened. That is correct.

It has been quite a journey. I was in the car with my sister Amanda. My

mother went to the shop to get some milk. In a matter of minutes the car

went up in flames. I was rescued by Oliver Quinn who was walking past.

He was able to get me out of the car. He tried to save my sister, but

was not able to reach her. Presumably you do not remember much

about the fire. I do not remember anything about the fire. I have some

early memories of being in hospital. I do not really remember

any other way than what I am. The pain that you endure in hospital was

unbelievable. When I was younger I did not understand why I had to go

for as much surgery. Every time I came out of hospital, I did not

think I looked much better. I found it hard to realise why I was there.

Your dad had to hold you down sometimes. I was in theatre and had

to be held there while they administered the anaesthetic when I

was very young. I know we talk about skin grafts, but what were they

doing? There was a reconstruction. Initially my hands were fused

together. I would not have been able to pick anything up. They literally

had to create my fingers. When you go through something like that as

young as that, presumably there is growing up emotionally. I always

knew that I had been in a car fire. I was always able to explain that to

people. I always knew that I was different. I always felt fit and

therefore I worked very hard to try and fit in and at school did you? I

was very stubborn. I did not want to be treated different. I worked

double to make sure I was not labelled like that. How did the rest

of the kids react? Kids are great. Once they know why something is the

way it is, they get on with it. The kids in school were not too bad.

Life is not a straight line and there are lots of bumps along our

lives. I really be at -- I really admire the string some people have

to battle through. There is no doubt you must have had that. Emotionally,

though, it was tough. I was nine or ten and I found things very

difficult to deal with. As my understanding grew... When I was two

or three I would have accepted more. But as I got older, at the end

of the day, you only have two choices. Did it come to a stage,

though, I know you have described this in the past really vividly,

where your brain could not cope with the pressure? I just really

physically shut down, and there was so much inside I was not letting out

and was not talking about it, so I literally gave up. I just needed to

stop and take a break and let things out. Things have a habit of coming

out, and if you don't let them out in a controlled manner, they come

out in the end. You will write to be angry, though. Why did something

out in the end. You will write to be like that happened to you? It's a

normal question to ask, definitely, but is it a productive one? I could

have asked, why did this happen? But it's not going to get me anywhere

and it will not make the most of my future if I keep going down that

road of being angry and questioning it. So after the breakdown, you got

help and for back? What's the fighting back? For me, personally, I

have always been aware that my sister died in that fire and that I

have a second chance that she didn't get. I very much want to live my

life for the both of us and that drives me on because she didn't get

a chance and I have had a second chance and I need to make the most

of it. I have a choice: I can either let it dictate my future or decide

what my own future is despite the past I have had. The majority of

people watching you will be thinking they don't have that courage.

Sometimes, you don't realise the courage you have until you need to

find it. If this hadn't happened to me, and somebody said to me, you

can't come through something like this. But when you are in that

situation, you have to have that choice and make something of your

life. It's amazing the courage that can come forward. How important our

looks in life? Looks very important in our. If you look at magazines and

the media and the celebrity culture, a lot of young people

especially can get very caught up in looks and the importance of that.

For me, as well, I went to an all girls school for secondary school,

and it was important for me as well, but there has to be a limit to how

much you let that consume your life. It's important to be happy with

yourself and how you look, definitely, but there has to be any

of the limit on that. -- but there has to be a healthy limit on that.

Your hair is beautiful. The Burns destroyed a lot of skin that grows

hair, right? Up until this point, I have been wearing wigs. Wearing a

wig, right, is it awkward? It can be. You are always aware it is a

wig. You are always conscious of it. The other thing, you are always

hiding behind it. It was awkward, and this hair is not a wig. This

hair is stuck on. It uses extensions. I've got a tiny little

bit of my own at the back to security on, and basically, it's not

like a wig for me, it's like having a little part of me back that I

lost. The first time I walked outside and the wind blew and I

didn't have to look down at the ground because I wasn't wearing a

wig and it wasn't going to move, you go, bring it on! It feels amazing

and it has restored something to me that I lost and really, really

missed. I have been able to get it done here in Belfast and my

hairdresser is in the audience and she's fantastic. It really has

changed my life. For anybody who has lost hair and their confidence along

with that, just that feeling of waking up in the morning with hair

is totally beyond words. Family is really important to you. The

two-week heads are full of energy. -- the two we kids. Are you overly

protective of your kids? Not really. They are boys. They just go

for it! You have to let them be kids and boys and come home in puddles.

They are full of life. What's the, then? I am studying law at the

moment. -- what's the future. I am studying law, and that's what I want

to pursue. Just to have a direction I am going in is really important to

me. Hopefully, I will make it as a lawyer someday. We employed lawyers

every day of the week. We can probably give you a job! In the work

that I do, we get caught up in arguing and what people don't

achieve and what people are doing wrong. You hit adversity in your

life and for your way through it and you have got a lovely family and you

are proud of yourself, you have got confidence, and no doubt you will go

on and be a lawyer, and thank you very much for coming in here to

night. -- tonight. That young lady's 's story is

heartbreaking. Such a brave, brave girl. An example of the best in

Northern Ireland. What an inspiring and beautiful art -- young lady.

Van Morrison is getting the Freedom of Belfast.

To mark the occasion, Van's playing a free concert for Belfast's

citizens at the Waterfront Hall in November. The only problem is a row

has broken out because councillors are guaranteed four tickets while

there's no guarantee at all for an ordinary member of the public. You

might not get any and the maximum you'll get is two. So you get four

and this audience might get none. First of all, we are getting two

tickets, one for ourselves, and another perhaps for a wide,

partner, fiance or whoever. -- for a wife. The other two tickets for us

to give to our constituents, somebody who is physically or

mentally disabled, who is in care or whatever. I have no doubt that all

51 councillors, that's how we will handle our tickets. We didn't have

to tell anyone that councillors were getting tickets. Belfast City

Council realised that people pay a lot of money to keep the council

going and provide the very best services. We also want to be open,

transparent, and trustworthy. There are over 11,000 people who have

applied. It closed at 5pm. Within a week, people will know whether they

have two tickets or not. We would love to have 20,000 at the event. A

few people said to me, is there no possibility of linking up with the

big screen at the front of City Hall? I pursued that but

unfortunately, that was out. Others talked of the Odyssey. We don't own

the Odyssey. We chose approximately 11,000 people. It's all dead on. You

lot are getting four, and the ordinary great unwashed don't? But

I've explained the reasons: Two are for ourselves and whoever we want to

bring with us, and the other two we give to our constituents. You can

rest assured we are responsible public representatives. Well, this

is wonderful that Belfast City Council have recognised Van Morrison

for the international talent that hears. -- that he is. It's

wonderful, fantastic and wonderful it is happening in Belfast, which is

a week-long festival all over well faster in 70 venues. And now this

brow -- this row has broken out and has become a complete PR disaster. A

lot of people thought, this here is ridiculous! Councillors are getting

for tickets! What they should do is they should give extra to get away

to people who look after six children in the day, who look after

elderly parents. But the whole thing about the way it has been handled is

a complete PR disaster which has overshadowed the wonderful work

everybody has been doing for months to promote Belfast in a positive

light. Everybody gets perks of their job, but I am as much of a citizen

of Belfast as you are. You please most of the people most of the time.

But you can't please all of the people all the time! Some sections

of the media unfortunately have taken away what this is all about. I

will not go into names, but Van Morrison, well known throughout the

world and who has played in virtually every country one can

think of to thousands of people is getting the freedom of the city he

was born and brought up in. That is a wonderful honour. It was his

decision to have a concept, but the concept is the -- but the concert is

not the traditional type of concert. She decided to have sports at the

front of City Hall and wanted to leave a legacy for young people.

This is got nothing to do with the allegation. This is about perception

and a council realising that the public, who they serve, who employed

you, have got to have the perception of equality with you guys, that it's

not just tickets for those who have elite status. You guys will get more

not just tickets for those who have than everybody else. That's the

message sent out here. 2000 tickets will be distributed next Wednesday.

And you are going to exclude people who travel into Belfast?

Absolutely. They should stay where they are, should they? It is only

proper that the ratepayers should get the opportunity. If any

councillor lives outside of Belfast they will be banned from getting

tickets, right? That is another story. APPLAUSE There are

councillors that live outside Belfast, but they are ratepayers

because they own property in Belfast.

I am a big fan of Van Morrison. I go to his concerts when I can. But the

village I live in means I cannot even apply for a ticket. I would

love to be able to offer you a ticket, but it is not a concert in

the true sense. We could not open it up for the whole of Northern

Ireland. But you do want people to come into Belfast and shop? But this

is different. Why? This is pure lead to confer their freedom of the city

of Belfast to Van Morrison. I do not think this is a PR disaster. More

people now know about this concept than ever and would have done. But I

do agree with Jim. If the councillors give away the extra

tickets, I do not have a problem with that. I think it is fine. There

is negativity now, that there always was going to be. There are 360

events throughout music week. We were always going to disappoint some

people. I do not think it is the end of the world that the councillors

are giving away two macro tickets. It was my colleague that broke the

story. It is important that we get a sense of perspective. No one has

died here. But it was an opportunity for the council to gain some

positive PR and they have shot themselves in the foot and how they

have allocated these additional 500 tickets. My concern is not about the

200 tickets that are going to elected representatives. It is the

other 300 gets that having allocated to council officials and employees

and so-called VIPs. The IP often means minor local celebrity. Van

Morrison also has some personal friends and family on the list and

rightly so. Why do you have the right to get the tickets? Why not

put those tickets into a lottery and expand the area so it is not just

within the Belfast constituency? The ratepayers of Belfast are paying for

this event. They collect as to represent them. I thought it was

free. It cost ?60,000 to put on. People say, why not open up the

whole of Northern Ireland? That would be ridiculous. No matter what

we do, we cannot win. I am a business owner. That would be like

you coming into my business and me saying, you are from Belfast, no. It

is shocking that people outside Belfast to not get the chance. He is

saying it is Belfast ratepayers footing the bill. Other councils do

something similar. They look after their own ratepayers. Is there any

merit in the council looking at this again? There are so many people from

all over Northern Ireland wanting to go. We fight about so many things in

Northern Ireland. Here is an event that the council have been happening

that could actually Unite a lot of Northern Ireland and people from

Northern Ireland could come together again. Should you guys not

contemplate buying a bigger venue? A big open-air park? And no matter

where you are from in Northern Ireland, you are welcome to come?

And open-air event at this time of year would be ethical. We have got a

team working, representatives of the council, representatives of Van

Morrison, doing all the organisation. When President Clinton

came here in December and turned on the lights and Van Morrison played

it was an alleged that went all over the world. It was a positive image.

Snow patrol played at MTV in front of City Hall. Fantastic image going

out. And now what was meant to be a celebration of the work of Van

Morrison, and his life, has turned into a very negative PR disaster. It

is a backlash now against Van Morrison but she does not deserve.

-- that he does not deserve. It is not fair. We have two macro for

ourselves, and the other two macro will be given to constituents. The

first person contacting me looking for a ticket was Stephen Nolan.

Rubbish. You just made that up. Like half of the rest of your answers.

Do the invited guests have to live in Belfast? That is important and

most councillors will bear that in mind. Is that a rule? It is not a

rule. You are not giving in to your constituents, then? I am giving mine

to my constituents. If you do not live in Belfast, do not apply. If

you do live in Belfast you can only get to. You can get for. It is very

important because it is the ratepayers that are paying for this.

It is very important it is only Belfast people who can apply, but a

counsellor can get his tickets to anybody. I would hope that is not

the case. Is that a rule? It is not a rule. I hope they will endeavour

to give the two macro tickets to a Belfast ratepayers.

This is the last show of 2013. We wanted to end the series on a high.

Andrea Begley scooped the top prize in The Voice UK.

The winner is... Andrea Begley. Since then Andrea has been in the

recording studio. She has just completed her first album. It has

been a crazy couple of months. What happens after you when the

competition? You hit the ground running. We were in the studio

straightaway. We were trying to think what would be good for the

album. It must be a nerve wracking period. You are wondering if you

will really make it. There is a lot of pressure. No one puts as much

pressure on me as I put on myself. I demand 110% effort. What has been

the most shocking part of the business? The intensity of it. It

can be very intense at times. It can be heavy going in terms of time,

travel, things are that. Your ambition? My ambition is to keep

writing, keep making music. Do you get down to enjoy it? I do. I am

enjoying myself. What was it like at the Albert Hall? It was phenomenal.

Such a venue. Such an experience. Do you find your lack of sight holding

you back? Not at all. I take it in my stride. I have never allowed it

to hold me back. So far, so good. What is next? Hopefully more music,

playing some gigs. I am playing on the 3rd of November.

Thank you so much. Thank you for watching us this series. We are back

on the radio tomorrow morning. We are continuing the discussion

tonight on Twitter. Andrea Begley is now going to sing

Dancing In The Dark. # I ain't nothing but tired

# A dear baby I could use a little help

# You can start a fire # You can't start a buyer without a

spark # Message keeps getting clearer

# I check my look in The Mirror # I want to change my clothes, my

here, MySpace # I ain't getting nowhere

# Just living in a dump like this # There is something happening

somewhere # Baby I just know there is

# You can start a fire # You can't start a fire without a

spark # These claims go higher

# Even if we're just dancing in the dark. #

# You can't start a fire sitting around crying with a broken heart

# These claims are higher even if we're just dancing in the dark

# Even if we're just dancing in the dark

# Even if we're just dancing in the dark. #