26/11/2017 MOTD2 Extra

Hello and welcome to Match

of the Day 2 Extra.

We're on BBC2, 5Live,

the BBC Sport website and app today,

as well as the iPlayer.

And joining me today is former

Arsenal defender Martin Keown,

Middlesborough manager Garry Monk,

and Jason Burt, chief football

correspondent of the Telegraph.

As ever, we're interested

in what you've got to say,

so please do get in touch with us.

Use the hashtag #bbcfootball

on social media, or you

can text us on 85058.

Here's what's coming up.

West Brom hold Spurs at Wembley

meaning Mauricio Pochettino's side

could be 13 points off the top

by the end of today.

The Baggies meanwhile could be

about to swap Pulis for Pardew.

A resurgent Palace come from behind

to put pressure on Stoke

manager Mark Hughes.

And we'll look ahead to Sunday's

games as Everton's search

for a new permanent manager goes on.

On the back pages...

The Express - "We're

out of title race".

Pochettino saying the gap

to Manchester City at the top has

already become too big.

The Mirror - "Everton power battle".

It's saying chairman Bill Kenwright

and major shareholder Farhad Moshiri

are at odds over who to appoint

as the new manager at Goodison Park.

The Sunday Times -

"Watford: we'll report Everton".

It says Watford intend to report

Everton to the Premier League should

they continue their pursuit of Marco

Silva.

First let's discuss that 1-1 draw

at Wembley yesterday,

after which Spurs manager

Mauricio Pchettino said the ten

point gap between them

and the league leaders...

"Is too much to catch

City in their form.

Martin, that gap could be

13 points by the end

Is it already too much?

I think he's probably right to say

it. But whether he should announce

it is different. They might have

already won the Premier League by

Christmas. They might have to

adjust. A couple of seasons ago when

it didn't look like they would be

champions, they almost imploded. The

new target was to finish second

because Manchester City that could

now.

If City win today its 13

points. It's an impossible question

to be asked as a manager. You are

damned if you do and damned if you

don't.

Maybe a little bit in his

comments, anything he can say in

that situation to add a bit of

pressure. It's a relentless pace

they are setting, but any bit of

pressure you can put on as a

manager. But it's a tough task from

this point onwards with the pace

Manchester City setting.

Roberto

Mancini all is used to say they

can't win the league when he was at

Manchester City, and they did.

Pochettino is probably worried about

a top four place as well. They might

be looking over their shoulders

because they have a battle to finish

in the top four. Maybe a little bit

of that going on. Martin is right.

It's probably over in terms of the

title race because City are so good.

It's November, ten points, enough

games to go to catch them up, but

actually it will be very difficult.

I think it will probably be all over

before Christmas partly because we

have so many games before then. Keep

going like this and they might be 15

or 18 points clear by Christmas.

Of

everybody?

Quite possibly. It was a

big win for Manchester United

yesterday. They played poorly but

got the victory. If they hadn't won

yesterday, they might well be saying

the same thing.

Chelsea, Manchester

United, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal.

None of them necessarily having bad

seasons at the moment. And if City

were not that far ahead, most fans

of those clubs would be satisfied.

The managers of those clubs, the

expectancy to win the league or be

competing, there might be a sense of

worry about that. But if Manchester

City continue on their path, at that

pace, playing their way, there is a

sense of acceptance that they might

have to readjust the targets. Like

Martin said, fighting for second

place or qualifying for the

Champions League.

I think with

Spurs, they need to try to find a

different target. The dream for

them, they have never won a trophy

with that group of players. They

haven't had the joy of lifting up a

trophy and showing it to the

supporters. They need to find

another goal to go after. If it is a

trophy of a sort, finishing in the

top four, they have to find it. The

home form at Wembley is still a

factor. Their home form has been

brilliant at White Hart Lane.

That's

not strictly true. Because Wembley

has been absolutely rocking for them

when they have played certain teams.

I know they lost at home to Chelsea,

but the atmosphere was amazing. They

demolished Liverpool, beaten Real

Madrid and Borussia Dortmund. When

the game is big at Wembley, the

place is rocking. I know that

doesn't rhyme with trembling

Wembley, but it is rocking Wembley.

I think they could have been going

toe to toe with Manchester City, if

they had been in their natural home,

White Hart Lane. That's not ready

yet. It's a problem for them, but

they are a great side. A truly great

side has to win a trophy though. The

problem with Tottenham is trying to

keep this magnificent group together

long enough, including the manager,

to be in a position to win.

There

have been too many games like

yesterday. It was quite predictable.

We have seen it before, good games

in Europe, then playing West Brom at

home. People thought it would be

tough and it proved that way, they

got the draw. At the start of the

season I thought the biggest problem

they would have with Wembley isn't

the size of the pitch or the

stadium, it's how will teams who go

their play against them. That's a

problem they have on that pitch in

that stadium. Other teams set

themselves up in a way that makes

them difficult to beat. I think the

statistics prove it, they are not

running as much as they did last

season and are not as dynamic. I

don't know if that's a deliberate

policy to try to pace themselves

over the course of the campaign, or

if it is taking it out of them. They

struggle to move the ball as quickly

as last season.

Wembley will never

be their home. For every player that

plays football, the dream is to play

at Wembley, so every player takes a

bit of ownership of it. When you

turn up to Wembley, it's your home.

Every player. We had the same

problem in the Champions League.

Batistuta was wondering around

saying, it's Wembley. It's going

against Tottenham this year, and it

will go against Chelsea when they

move there as well.

We can hear from

Gary Megson and what he said about

Spurs after the 1-1 draw yesterday.

In the first half we were not

resilient, but we didn't have to be.

We were keeping the ball. Tottenham

played two of their best games

against Real Madrid that I have seen

this season. They were fantastic,

but they played with the three

centre halves and because of the way

things went today for them, they

change that, changing formation

three or four times over the course

of the game. I think the idea was to

try to cause us more problems. What

they are doing that worked against

Real Madrid, it wasn't paying

dividends for them today.

While that

is an analysis of how Spurs played

yesterday, is it quite a good way of

picking up the West Brom

performance? What worked against

Real Madrid, didn't work against us!

You have to get them where you can!

He was pleased with the Provence,

and it was a very good one. In terms

of going to Wembley, as Martin says,

it isn't a home feeling for Spurs.

-- pleased with the performance. I

think away teams are going to enjoy

it more because it's an occasion

with Wembley and the history.

If you

were taking a team there would you

play on that?

I think you would, and

the players would naturally think

that as well. They understand the

history. But Spurs are a difficult

to play against. They are a good

team. There is a certain edge you

could play on if you took a team

there. Tactically you have to get it

right and hope the game goes right

because you have to get through

against a good side. But what quite

a few teams have done is get

through.

Rondon is scored an early

goal.

Should have scored a very late

one as well.

The questions come in a

little bit. It's a big and ponderous

stadium. Big teams, Real Madrid,

what an incredible atmosphere and a

great achievement to beat them, but

I can't do it against the likes of

West Brom.

In the title race, let's

not write Spurs off just yet says

one viewer. Terry says it's amazing

Spurs aren't challenging more with

the quality they have.

Let's talk about West Brom now,

who held talks with Alan Pardew

as they close in on appointing

a replacement for Tony Pulis,

who was sacked on Monday.

That's what I understand. They met

last week and talks are progressing.

He seems to be the new head coach.

Do you understand the decision?

I

understand why they are doing it.

There is a desire to shift the style

of football. They wanted a manager

with Premier League experience. I

accept and agree with the same old

names coming around again, that

happens quite a lot but clubs are

risk averse and they don't want to

take a chance. The big thing now in

football, beyond the top six, the

other 14 teams are desperate to stay

up and the fear of being relegated

is too great for them. They will do

everything they can to stay in the

division. Five managers sacked

already this season. Probably a

couple more before Christmas the way

things are going. Clubs think they

have to do something and

unfortunately for managers, that

something is often do change the

manager.

The style of football, when

you have interviewed for jobs,

Middlesbrough and Leeds United, and

even when you had talks at Swansea

when you got the job full-time, were

you asked about the style of

football and did you present to the

board about the style of football

you would like to play?

At Swansea

it was a different case because of

what had been put in place in the

past, and being a part of that and

continue in that. With Leeds and

Middlesbrough, I think the be all

and end all is to find a winning

formula. There is a lot of talk

about philosophy and styles, but the

most important thing is to win.

That's the business and that's what

we are there to do. You will talk

through certain things you will look

at and how the project will look at

the end and how you can try to get

there. You sell it in that way. But

ultimately what they want to hear is

what will win. Philosophies and all

these things, that's ultimately what

you're trying to sell.

What

responsibilities do you feel as a

manager towards fans. I was with

West Brom fans in the week and they

said to me, all we want is to have

some fun. We want to have a bit of

fun.

You know what you are getting

when you bring a manager in. As an

owner, as a club, whatever you

decide to bring in. Everyone is

fully aware at that point what you

will get or what it will look like.

That's down to the owners to decide

what they feel at that moment, what

is needed in that moment.

The next

games, Newcastle is the first game.

One of his old clubs. And then

Palace. He is a yo-yo manager. I

think he's a decent manager. He's

not bad. This is his last big

chance, and if he doesn't get it

right we will not see him in the

Premier League again. A couple of

years ago he wasn't far away from

being a candidate for the England

job. That's how precarious it can be

in a Premier League. He goes

successive runs of lots of defeats

and massive runs of winning games.

Which will it be? If it doesn't

happen quickly, he could well be

sacked. Two managers gone from the

same job in the same season, it

could be. Tony Pulis is a past

master at Staindrop, and they have

got rid of him. He will probably be

picked up. The pressure will be

massively around him. I think he

wants the job but if he can pull it

off remains to be seen to stop but

if he gets it wrong is the last big

job he will get.

He's the sort of

manager who gets an immediate

reaction from players and fans. Alan

Pardew to be fair does try to play

front foot football and attack. And

West Brom supporters want something

more. The trouble Tony Pulis, if you

take away the point is, if they

don't win or draw, you don't have

anything left because the football

isn't great. At least at this stage

you don't have anything in your

favour, apart from the reputation

you have achieved in the past. But

he got to a stage with them, they

are not even getting results, just

getting beaten, and that's all

that's happening. And also fans

aren't turning up. The Hawthorns

hasn't been selling out. That alarms

the clubs and owners. They don't

have a lot to fall back on.

You talk

about him getting an immediate

reaction. Do you think most new

managers get an immediate reaction?

No!

The same old names that keep

going round and round, these

firefighters that will keep clubs

up. Are they all getting immediate

reaction is to get clubs up.

Sam

Allardyce didn't get an immediate

reaction. But we know the body of

work he does. It takes time to turn

a team around. This is more about

clubs being risk averse. They don't

want to. Lots of good coaches and

managers out there, but they don't

want to get somebody who might work.

They want something more tried and

trusted. They will look at Alan

Pardew and his record, and what he

has achieved. I know it has gone

badly wrong at certain times, but he

did quite well as well. He was

Manager of the Year with Newcastle,

getting them to fit under difficult

circumstances stop did well at

Palace to begin with but then try to

change the style of play. Did OK at

West Ham. He has quite a good track

record, to be fair to him. I

understand Martin's point, we

understand this situation when he

gets lots of good results and then

lots of poor ones. He has to arrest

that but I think you'll get wins to

stay in the Premier League.

He did

get to a cup final as well. The

point with West Brom was the way

they were playing. It was awful and

they had to make a change. The

wingers were playing like

full-backs. No creativity. Yesterday

they were asking players to play ten

or 15 yards further up the pitch.

With Rondon, you could see his

power. Rodriguez is another player.

Arsenal did very well on the break.

They were mixed in their performance

and a change had to be made.

On

Twitter, I don't get this obsession,

a merry-go-round of failed top-level

managers. Bring new blood up from

the lower levels. Tim says to look

at the good up-and-coming managers

in the Championship all-league one.

It seems a backward step. Do

Championship and League 1 managers

talk to each other about the Premier

League being a closed shop?

When you speak to the managers,

there are good managers and good

coaches.

It is a difficult feeling.

The majority of the feeling is that

to get to the Premier League, you

have to take a team there. The

problem may be the opportunities.

It

is the reality.

Yeah, you accept

that as a manager, be realistic.

Do

you?

You do. Everyone wants to be in

the Premier League. But the reality

is, the guys at that level, you will

have to take a team there, you can

stay there, maybe taking the

opportunity at that point.

The team

news from one of the three games

today, Southampton against Everton.

Vicky Sparks has the team news.

Mario Lemina is not fit enough to

start for Southampton but he is back

on the bench as they make three

changes from their defeat by

Liverpool. Another played just six

minutes in the Premier League this

season, he comes in for the

suspended Oriol Romeu. Everton make

eight changes from the five - one

humbling defeat against Atalanta.

Oumar Niasse against the ban for

diving. Sanchez upfront. Morgan

Schneiderlin and Phil Jagielka are

fit and start.

Everton are in the

thick of it, have they completely

mismanaged their managerial

situation?

Yeah, absolutely. I felt

this for the last couple of years,

clubs focused too much on the

manager, the manager carries the can

for everything, they push into the

front almost, it is his fault if it

goes wrong. Lots goes on

behind-the-scenes, they need to take

more responsibility. We talk about

the recruitment of managers, I

cannot understand how they are not

scouring the world much more

cannot understand how they are not

scouring the world much more, going

through the leagues, so much of what

they do is knee jerk and a reaction

to the last three, four results. Not

enough clubs have a plan of what

they want to do and where they want

to be an stick with the plan.

Everton, it looks like a club where

they have bought these players, and

this much, I said that in the

summer, everyone else had top six,

unbalanced squad, who is buying the

players? The man managing them goes

after a few games. Left a month,

they are after Marco Silva. He is

not going! He might want to but

Watford are saying he is staying.

They have to get some minerals.

David Unsworth is hanging at the

moment.

It was not just Romelu

Lukaku, it was Valencia as well, I

have not done the management game,

but you have to have a centre

forward. What are they trying to do?

I know it is not the only problem,

but Romelu Lukaku had a big impact

at Manchester United. They say...

They knew he was going in March, he

did not suddenly go. Swansea lost

players at the end of the window,

that is how they are so unbalanced.

David Unsworth, whether he should be

given the job, he has not got the

experience for that type of job, but

as time goes on, you realise he is

now part of the problem. The last

game they played, three goals

conceded from set pieces, in Europe.

I would be very clear of the

messages I want from set pieces. It

was

sloppy, he now is a part of the

problem. They are not getting it

right. They really struggle. Look at

Michael Keane now, he looks a really

ordinary defender. Over the hill.

Michael Keane, to be fair, he has

played in a two, three, different

person alongside him at centre-half,

different person at right back half

the time, he must not know... David

Unsworth must not know if he is

coming or going.

Left hanging. There

is a base you work from. You see

this with Roy Hodgson, he has gone

in and he has tried to impart their

knowledge, get the basics right

defensively.

He is able to do that

from a position of stability,

strength.

And experience. David

Unsworth has not got that. He has

come in from the outside. David

Unsworth stepped up from the under

23s. Maybe he is not right.

Personally, I think they should not

give it to him. But the way they

have handled it...

Your point about

the cult of the manager and maybe

expecting too much from managers,

everything is the be all and end all

when it comes to managers, do you

feel that?

You do. Internally, the

support from the owner and within,

that can be strong, like I have now

with Middlesbrough and my experience

before, but outwardly, responsibly,

you do feel that ultimately the

responsibility of everything is on

yourself. Internally, different

departments at the clubs, it is not

a new, but absently, the focus is on

the manager, I guess that sense of

responsibility is there. Again, you

know that, part of the job.

When a

new manager comes in, it is so much

about the new manager, as a player,

in the dressing room, been through

the mill, I had 15 managers in my

playing career, another one coming,

big speech, we will do this, we will

do that. First game, we lose.

Question marks are there. The

manager is on trial, not us,

skill is to put the pressure on to

the players and sit back and help

them. Let them flourish. And nurture

them. Arsene Wenger did a brilliant

thing when he first came to Arsenal,

15 minute meeting with each player.

It was handy they gave us new

contracts and a pay rise! Suddenly

though, there was a connection, it

was about us and not the manager. It

is... I bet David Moyes is on the

training ground now for fun. In the

end come you get fed up.

As a

football fan, that is where I want

my manager, on the training field.

Thinking about it, I probably don't

want my manager doing every

pre-match and post-match press

Conference four, five times a week.

I had this conversation with Nigel

Pearson after he left Leicester, it

is absolutely incessant. Sometimes

you think, why did they just put a

player up for one of those? He said,

you try and get a player to do a

press Conference! That is how we

have ended up with the cult of the

manager, you are meant to answer

everything pre-match and post-match.

I do agree to a certain extent. The

manager has less power though, the

club does not want to give the power

to the manager, he might not be

there for very long.

You have to

handle the power in the right way.

A

lot of managers go in without the

say-so to change things, they have

to work with it. I agree, of course

the manager has to do the bulk of

the media and representation and be

the face of the club, but players

hide behind the manager. I would

love to see players do press

conferences more. Sometimes it

happens more in Spain. We see the

players talk more. In this country,

it is the club's fault, they hide,

the players hide, they come out when

things are going well.

Yeah! As a

manager, you know it is your

responsibility. It is what it is,

that is what you do. Protection

wise, for players, too much. New

captain at the club, player within

the club, I felt that when I was

captain at Swansea and those types

of places, it was my duty to go out

and speak in front of the media. The

attitude was fine. Nowadays, they

bit more of a scared feeling from

the players in front of the media

because of social media and all

these things and the criticism that

comes with it maybe, more timid.

When they do talk, they generally

get a good response, fair play to

them. The players who talk, you are

predisposed... You are not giving

them an easier ride, but you

appreciate the fact they do it, make

the effort. You understand they are

making an effort.

When we lost, I

did an interview, not very often! I

felt, here we go, we have lost a

game, they want me...

Everyone

remembers the one wheeled out when

they lose. There you go.

Players are

allowed to hide behind the manager?

We are talking about separate

things. If you equip the players

that in the right way, they will

come out fighting on the pitch. I

have a message we stick to as a

group. You do not want someone

talking out of turn. On the pitch,

if you're quick them and give them

the right information on the

training pitch, they should come out

like Lions and Tigers onto the

pitch, no one should be timid, that

is the balance. That would concern

me more, how they perform on the

pitch, than how they do in

interviews afterwards.

I am looking

at the bigger picture.

We are in the

media, we want people to express

themselves, some players are not

comfortable at all, they come out

onto the football pitch, they turn

into different people.

Aberdeen 1-1

Kilmarnock, the score in the early

game in Scotland. Let us talk

positively about managers. Sean

Dyche and Ben Mee. If they win this

afternoon, they will go above

Liverpool and Spurs into fourth --

Sean Dyche and burn me. Conor

Macnamara at Turf Moor. 34 years

since Burnley last beat Arsenal in

the league but what an incentive

today, what a prize on offer. Sean

Dyche, quite rightly linked with so

many other big jobs elsewhere, all

down to the improvement he has had

at Burnley. Eight points more on the

board right now than 12 months ago.

Still good home form, crucially,

they have started picking up far

more points away from home and this

season already Burnley have picked

up more points on their travels than

they did in your entirety of last

campaign. Sean Dyche has kept a

tight knit group together, he has

used fewer players in the Premier

League this season than any other

manager in the top-flight, speaking

of squad rotation, Arsenal made the

full 11 changes for the Europa

League on Thursday, you can expect

Arsene Wenger to bring in the big

guns today. The last league game was

the big win against Tottenham in the

north London derby, the best I have

seen Arsenal play in a long time,

but the perennial Arsenal question

is, can they be consistent? Can they

improve, match that performance? Can

Arsenal be as up for it today

against Burnley as they were a week

ago against Tottenham? Make no

mistake, potential place in the top

four on offer, Sean Dyche's team

will be up for this one.

Thank you for your tweets and texts

on Burnley and Sean Dyche. Richard,

he would be nuts if he left,

especially with how he has done so

far this season. Alexander,

brilliant job, 22 points, six wins,

four draws, respect for that. I

suppose he would be mad to leave

Burnley to a certain extent because

everything there is set up how he

wants it. If you have a managerial

blueprint and you want your club to

follow exactly what you believe in,

he has had the time and space to

develop the club in his mould?

Exactly. It is proving now with the

way they are playing and the

results, the stability they have

had, building the club, what Sean

Dyche has done, it has allowed them

to do what they are doing. The

sustainability is there and it is

key. Everything else outside, Sean

Dyche would answer that question

better himself, but you can only

control what you can control. The

media outside saying this, his move

to this, whatever, those links, of

course, he is ambitious, but he is

in an environment where I think he

can at this moment focus on what he

is doing. Because of the way he has

taken them, he must be enjoying it.

Of course, if you go back two, three

years, the Burnley board stuck with

him, they went down, he brought them

back up, then they move on. All this

talk we have had today about

sackings and hirings and firings...

Totally the right decision. He got

them up in the first place, punching

way above their weight to get in the

Premier League, they had faith in

him. We do not know the work the

managers do behind-the-scenes. He

obviously worked really well at

Burnley. They were unfortunate to go

down. One of the things nowadays,

nobody is prepared to work at a

young club, they think, we cannot go

down, fear of being relegated

supersedes everything else. They

think, we have to change something.

Burnley did not do that and rightly

so. What is great about Sean Dyche

is the long-term planning he puts in

place. The example I was given is

James Tarkowski. He went to Burnley,

did not play, from Brentford, did

not play, but Michael Keane goes,

James Tarkowski is ready to play.

Nick Pope from Charlton, relegated

to League 1, now playing in the

Premier League. Managers not being

given a chance to go through the

leagues, players are not being given

the chance, but this is a club doing

it, they are earning the right to be

in the Premier League. Not enough

clubs think, look at League 1,

League 2, bringing players through.

Sean Dyche will be licking his lips

today because if they win today, top

four. Remarkable. They have had

great results, beat Chelsea away,

last year was a problem, James

Tarkowski, I was at the game at

Palace last year, only win away from

home at that stage of the season,

good introduction, you would not

miss Michael Keane now. The business

they have done there. Great results,

draw at Tottenham, Liverpool. A

really good outfit now. They work,

in-your-face. A contrast of styles.

Look at the Arsenal of last week,

brilliant against Tottenham, but it

would be a waste of time if they do

not make it count against Burnley.

You have to earn the right to play

at Burnley. It will tell us about

Arsenal. If they cannot get a result

today, I cannot see Arsenal getting

top four.

We'll come back to Arsenal shortly.

When Jason talks about the forward

planning, bringing Tarkowski in, but

building him up until he's ready, do

you get that luxury a lot in

football? Are you able to say, when

you think you might lose one of your

players 18 months down the line, can

you start forward planning? Are you

given that luxury?

Not always. My

experience with Middlesbrough you

know coming in and you want to start

well and get good results

straightaway and start building

straightaway. There is an instant

need for success. My experience at

Middlesbrough is getting that

balance in the back of your mind,

recruiting for the future. I thought

about that in the summer, having for

the here and now and also in the

next few years where they can hit

their full potential to be able to

do something for the club in the

years to come. As a manager you try

to strike that balance with people

at the club to get the succession

planning. It is quite right what

everyone says here, it's vitally

important, but a lot of clubs buy

for the here and now because we live

in an industry where the success has

to be now. Credit to Burnley, they

have shown with that process the

benefits that come from it.

Looking

at Chelsea with Mourinho in the

past. A great manager, but with

Salah and De Bruyne, both of those

players were the future and they

were allowed to leave, a shocking

decision. Even the greatest managers

can get it wrong.

But there is a

fine line, because they are there

for the future, but they will want

to play in the here and now.

They

also probably living in the most

extreme condition of the instant

success needed at that type of club.

They need to every single week.

And

they will win.

That's right. Ireland

a few years ago when Ancelotti was

manager of Chelsea and had won the

double. He brought five young

players into the first-team squad

and got sacked at the end of the

season. He finished second and got

sacked. You've brought through Josh

McEachran, Van Aanholt, Gael Kakuta.

But they weren't ready. That makes

some managers risk averse. You need

the faith of the manager and the

club in order to be able to do that.

I think Chelsea are changing, to be

fair. They are trying to get younger

players through because they realise

it's gone too far and they can't see

the continual cycle of players go to

other clubs and do brilliantly. The

cycle of Lukaku and De Bruyne. But

at the same time, how do you keep

these players happy because they

need to play. They are great

talents. You can't hold them back

too much. So Nathaniel Chalobah

leaves this summer because he can't

get game time at Chelsea. He goes to

Watford and does well before he gets

injured.

Do you have any... What are

your main concerns for Arsenal

against Burnley this afternoon?

A

lot has been said about Ozil and

Sanchez. When they lose games, it

looks like they were wrong to keep

them there. Last week, they will go

with blessing at the end of the

season if they play like that. If

they don't perform today, there are

questions again. There is the

uncertainty about who will replace

them and also over the manager. A

few weeks ago he said he may even go

at the end of the season. That seems

to help them against Tottenham. I

think today we will know if they are

the real Deal or not. It's easy when

you play against Tottenham. The game

is all around you. Every door you

open, you have to win. Going to

Burnley, the weather isn't great.

It's raining here in Manchester, not

far away. It's one of those sticky

grounds. It's not the San Siro, is

it? Take nothing away from Burnley.

We'll see if they have the

ingredients. If you want to be a

Premier League winner, it's days

like today where you win it, not

against Tottenham at home.

We are

nearly in December and the weather

is miserable in most places, Martin.

You are defending the area! We have

to do with those angry northern

sentiments all the time! -- the

anti-northern sentiments.

Talking

about Mark Hughes. Stoke lost a

Crystal Palace yesterday 2-1. There

were plenty of unhappy Stoke City

fans on 606 last night and we can

hear from the Stoke City manager.

It's a game we should never have

lost, clearly. The game should have

been won by a fantastic goal from

Xherdan Shaqiri. The one real bit of

quality in the game for both teams

in my opinion. We have defended

poorly in the both recent games. We

have had clear-cut chances, but

others have punished as. It's a

similar decision today, two at the

far post that we should have dealt

with. Certainly the second goal. We

had two players who needed to clear

their lines. It is hurting us at the

moment. Performances have been OK up

to a point, but it's all about

getting results. We have played two

games now where we feel we have

missed out on opportunities to get

maximum points in one or both of

them. That is the frustration for us

at the moment.

He says performances

have been OK up to a point. It's

fair to say Stoke City fans of

social media don't agree with that.

Mark says Mark Hughes needs to go.

Pour in game management. Has

regressed since it first came. 20

months of dross. Another viewer,

Hughes is under pressure, and

rightly so. He has been awful for

about two years now. Jason, Stoke

and Swansea will both be thinking,

all the other clubs around them have

seen the clubs around them change

managers. That will make them

twitchy.

There is a domino effect

that when one jumps the others feel

they have to react. Some have to

stay strong to outside pressures. If

they have faith with managers and

sticking with them. I think Swansea

want to stick with Paul Clement if

they can. I think Stoke City will

stick with Mark Hughes. The owners

are quite loyal there and they

understand what is going on. I

understand the frustration because

it goes to the heart of the issue at

some clubs. Is survival enough?

That's what fans want to see. Stoke

have been in the Premier League for

a long time now. What do they want

to be? Mark Hughes will say that he

has a lot of top ten finishes, which

he does, but at the moment they are

static, treading water. Where are

they going as a club?

Where do you

go?

Exactly! If you are not in the

top six. I'm sympathetic to Mark

Hughes. I'm not sure where they go.

People will say that they are below

the likes of Brighton. But it's a

tricky situation. I don't know what

the answer is.

They tried by taking

a lot of loanees in. I don't know

how much money they have spent. They

have two home games coming up now

where they need to get something. I

think Liverpool are next.

If you are

not in the top six, you are either

in a relegation battle or treading

water, aren't you? That is the

Premier League.

You are, but owners

like to see progression and

improvement in the money they are

spending. I think he holds himself

together very well, Mark Hughes. He

has changed the system recently,

trying to play with three at the

back. There are issues away from

home, they conceded a lot of goals

last season. That is slightly better

but they still lose a lot. It's

about keeping their heads. The

criticism he gets makes them more

determined to get the results he

needs. Two home games coming up,

Liverpool and Swansea, I think. They

need to get results in those.

When

you are at Swansea, what targets and

ambitions did you set?

Talking about

that, in terms of a similar

experience, we had the season where

we made the Europa League. We had

that feeling. And then the first

season I had at Swansea we managed

to finish in eighth. Are the

expectation level started to raise.

The feeling from within, or in my

mind is that Swansea is a club that

needs to be fighting off relegation

first and foremost, get to 40

points, and then progress from

there. The expectancy can't be the

Europa League every single season.

It depends on the club you are at,

the infrastructure and what you can

realistically go for. It's a

difficult one for managers because

positions can fluctuate from game to

game with each manager under

pressure in different weeks of the

season. We saw at the start when

Eddie Howe at Bournemouth, they

couldn't win is to start with and

now they have gone on a great run.

He was getting criticism before

that. But each manager will

understand that.

Because you go into

football to win. Whether you are a

player or manager, that's what you

want in your career. You don't go

into it to finish 14th every year.

But for a lot of Premier League

clubs or chairman, that would be

fine. Finish 14th, take the money

and go again.

It depends on the

internal conversations about the

owners want the club to be doing.

For the manager... Southampton were

constantly pushing for Europe a

couple of years ago. If the

conversations are, this is the

demand, then you know that as the

manager. If the conversations are

not there, and they are where they

are, if the owners don't say

outwardly or internally what you

want to do, until you are in that

club you don't know those

conversations.

It's such a hard

balance at times. We have talked

about how for a lot of clubs it's

the fear of being relegated that is

paramount. As Garry says, your first

and last priority is to stay in the

division. People say you want to

progress the club, but how do you do

that? Looking at the teams around,

they spend huge amounts of money, as

Stoke have done recently. What do

you then do? People talk about runs

in the cup. Clubs don't always do

that because they are worried about

staying in the league. It's a

difficult balance. Personally, teams

that play good football is quite

vital. Swansea do play good

football. They did under Garry. That

is quite an important part for me as

a spectator. I want to watch a game

and think, this team will play.

That's why Eddie Howe, to a degree,

has currency in the bank because

Bournemouth try to play and I think

that helps him.

And it seems like he

manages the club right the way

through. Bringing all the players

in, instrumental on the training

ground on on match day he makes all

the decisions during the game. You

have to get the results. At the end

of the day you want to develop

players, but you have to play

purposeful football. In possession

of the ball come you play winning

passes. At the right times of the

game when somebody has to keep the

ball at the corner flag, you are not

trying to win a game, its game

management. The right messages you

put through as the manager, making

sure they do the right thing at the

right moment.

Just a couple of

minutes left, how is life at

Middlesbrough?

Enjoyed it, it was

good.

One of those days yesterday.

That is the frustration as a manager

sometimes. Probably played the best

football of our season in the first

half. Didn't create enough chances

and we needed to be clinical. The

one time they came into our half

they scored. Even at half-time, the

message was the same, to continue in

that way. But we shot ourselves in

the foot in the second half where

individual errors and some decisions

cost us a couple of goals and left

us no way back. A frustrating day,

but in terms of the whole situation,

going to Middlesbrough this season.

We are fighting for consistency at

the moment but we are confident for

the rest of the season.

It's not an

original thing to say, but it's a

tight division.

It's incredible.

It's kind of what we're talking

about. It is fun in no way. Not

always fun. The amount of games you

play and being able to react.

Talking about Southampton today,

speaking to Jason earlier, it's been

a since they have won, but in the

Premier League you have only

probably played four games. In a

Championship you will have played

nine or ten. It's a fun league.

Thanks very much to Jason,

to Martin and great to have

Garry with us too.

Me and Martin are off for a Sunday.

Goodbye.