30/04/2017 MOTD2 Extra

Good afternoon, welcome to Match of the Day 2 Extra on BBC Two,

Radio 5 live and the BBC Sport website.

Joining me are the former Blackburn and Celtic striker Shris Sutton,

ex-Everton midfielder Leon Osman and the chief sports writer

Get in touch using the hashtag #bbcfootball on social media

Coming up, we'll reflect on Sunderland's relegation

to the Championship and ask what next for David Moyes.

As Hull inch closer to safety, we'll assess the job done by Marco Silva

And we'll look ahead to a big afternoon at both ends of the table

The back pages are dominated by the boxing and Anthony Joshua. If you're

looking for football, it is all Sunderland.

The Sun on Sunday leads with "Down N Out."

And The Express quotes David Moyes, saying yesterday

We will hear from David Moyes shortly, but there is a new kick-off

at Old Trafford, Man Utd against Swansea. So far, Will Perry, Swansea

have created the better chances? Yes, but as you came to me there was

a brilliant chance, a ball through for Jesse Lingard who took it on the

volley, a superb save by Lukaz Fabianski. Manchester United have

the corner, cleared away by Federico Fernandez, just before that Swansea

had a brilliant chance down the other end. Llorente pulled up a

short and that was the most unorthodox save from David de Gea.

This has opened up but it is still goalless. We will keep you updated

throughout the course of the show. Let's start at the bottom

then and Sunderland's relegation after their 1-0

defeat to Bournemouth. They will be playing Championship

football next season. Sadly, we will obviously

disappointed, Highfield more for the supporters who watch regularly, you

feel it most about them -- I feel more for the supporters. We take

collective responsibility from the top to the bottom and we dust

ourselves down, we look at it over the next few weeks and see what we

had to do. You have had lots of highs in your career, how difficult

was it going into the dressing room? I don't know the words you can say

to the players. But I thought that they fought really hard for the

team, they fought for the jersey, they were extremely committed.

Because of that it is very difficult to fault them. What would you say to

the over 38,000 supporters that were here? We are disappointed with the

level of performance all season, we will do everything we can to get it

right and in the comp... Coming weeks we will address it and have

more to say about it, hopefully. You said you would look at it at the end

of the season, do you have a burning desire of unfinished business to get

this club back in the Premier League? When I sit down with Alice

and Martin, we will look at how we can do that as quickly as possible.

You have generally seen as challenge through in your career? This is a

great football club, you mentioned the amount of supporters, if

anything I feel for them, they are the ones who put their hard earned

cash into coming to the games, we have to try to give them something

to shout about. He called it collective

responsibility, Chris Sutton, from the top to the bottom.

Is that fair? I think so, when you look at how other sides have

strengthened in January who were towards the bottom, he was not dealt

a good hand, but he did not help himself, he was extremely negative

at the start of the season. But it has been coming for years, a

Sunderland relegation, I don't think the owner has helped. Are they still

trying to sell? You talk about whether David Moyes will stay on, if

he does not get the funds next season, and you take Defoe and

Pickford out of the team, is that good enough to bounce straight back?

It is not. You mentioned the Sunderland owner, I will read you

part of his statement released after the relegation, he said I

acknowledge that mistakes have been majoring my ownership.

Ollie Hoult, the line there is strong determination to do so

throughout the club could well be questioned by lots of Sunderland

fans? Chris is absolutely spot-on about the owner. There has been a

lot of talk about Mike Ashley and how he needs to make up his mind

what policy he wants to adopt with the funding of Newcastle, and I

think the same absolutely applies to Ellis Short. They have been playing

brinksmanship for years, they have stayed in the top division for ten

years but taken it to the wire. They have spent 816 days in the

relegation zone since their promotion in 2007. If they want to

be in the Premier League, they need to invest more. David Moyes has

taken a lot of flak, and Chris is right, his tone has been funereal,

as everyone has accepted, since the start, and that

has not in him or the club any favours, but I think there is an

underlying trend which is downwards and playing brinksmanship with the

club's future. If the club is to progress and optimism is to return,

they need investment from the top. Leon Osman, when it comes to David

Moyes, negativity, being resigned to going down or however you want to

look at it, lots of other clubs in the bottom half of the table, their

managers have never appeared defeatist, whether it be Sean Dyche

in Birmingham, Marco Silva at Hull, and yet it has felt different at

Sunderland, rightly or wrongly it has felt defeatist from the start?

You see it in his body language in all of the interviews he has done,

probably over the course of the season. He looks like he has gone

into the club, got into a big club, somewhere he can see a forward plan

going in, once got there he realised that the task is much bigger than he

realised. He probably only realise the problems going on at Sunderland

once he was inside the walls. He looks like he found out rather soon

that things were bigger... You said to me on 5 live the other night when

we watched them lose at Middlesbrough the other night, you

were talking about, you know, you used to see him on the touchline,

eyes bulging, fists punching, shouting. He would have had

challenging moments managing new at Everton but he was different then?

Was he? Definitely. As I mentioned the other night, it was the

assistant manager on the touchline shouting and screaming at the

players. That is a long way from the David Moyes that I was used to, eyes

popping out of his head, screaming and caught up in the game. He just

does not seem to be doing that at the moment. I don't know if he was

disillusioned by the size of the task at Sunderland. There is a

slight poignancy about Moyes, his greatest moment mark the start of

his decline, his appointment as Man United manager. I think there is a

sense about him of disillusionment about that, he has been unable to

stop the decline since then. If they parted ways, Sunderland and David

Moyes, where is his next job? I would question if he would get one.

Because of what happened at Sunderland or because of what Ollie

says? Because of the negativity about United, Real Sociedad, they

did not get any worse but they did not get any better. Sunderland was a

tough task, but with the way he is now perceived... Where would his

next job be? A base is he a good manager? He has proven over the

years, at Everton and Preston, that he can build teams. I would like to

see him stay. The question over him staying, I think is with Ellis Short

and whether he gets enough funds and can bring players in who he likes.

That is the big question. In my opinion, there is no doubt that he

is a good manager, but one of the other things that makes him seem

quite upset and down at the moment is that even if they go down, they

are not guaranteed to come straight back up. They have been that poor

this season that it might take two or three seasons to get them back

up. Will they give him the time? Is he prepared to stay around? Will it

suits him in the Championship, where he can build and start again? That

is what he did as Preston and Everton and he was given the time to

do that, to start again from scratch. But if you save time and

rebuild and all of those words, there needs to be a sense of realism

around the football club and from the fans that it might not be next

season or the season after, it might be three years before they go up.

But in the course of that, constant questions will remain about David

Moyes, because he is not getting Sunderland back at the first

attempt. Ellis Short touched on it, recruitment. David Moyes will want a

squat or a team which he feels he has a chance of getting back -- a

squad or a team. We have seen Aston Villa in freefall, it is not easy.

You wrote an article last week, Ollie, about the potential of clubs

such as Sunderland, I don't know if you mentioned them themselves, but

remaining their training base to help attract players. Did you get a

lot of stick for that? I got some stick. It was something that Gary

Neville had mentioned, he had heard about it, that there is talk doing

the rounds within football. There are precedents, slightly extreme

presidents, in Russia, for instance, one team bought very big-name

players and trained them near Moscow and they flew into matches. In

England, we still very much feel but the club should be part of the

community and its needs to be, there need to be links with the community.

I think the bigger issue with the idea of clubs in the north-east,

say, having training grounds in London and having their players fly

in and out of games is it would go totally against that ceiling. I am

not sure... Supporters would not stand for it. My instinct is a

supporter, one, if you don't like where we are then, quite frankly,

don't come and secondly, the theory is not necessarily true in that

virtually all of the clubs in this country, there are lovely places to

live. It is not... It is very easy for you to say don't come if you

don't like it, but then they won't come, which means you are not

competing with the London clubs who, in the modern era of English

football where we are a very cosmopolitan... We have suddenly

become very cosmopolitan culture, players are coming from abroad,

rightly or wrongly, I am from the North like you and I know how lovely

it is to live appear, but lots of those players want to live in

London. Clubs are part of the community, they do visits and things

to help local charities and if you are not based there you will never

be able to do that. But there will probably be a limit on Watson blend

can do, as you mentioned players will not go up there -- there will

probably be a limit on what Sunderland can do. Is there a limit

tense because they cannot attract players to give them the chance of

going for a league title, long-term? My producer in my ear has said that

Chris is looking at you as if this is the most ludicrous thing you have

ever heard. I would say that happens regularly! Not regularly. It is

utterly ridiculous, isn't it? It is. People talk about football clubs'

identity, are football fans going to want to turn up and pay their

hardened money for people that do not want to buy into the city or the

club? But we are losing this identity by degrees. There was a

time when lots of the players came from the area where they played. We

lost that quite a long time ago. There were 12-macro players from

Manchester in the Manchester derby. Whatever sort of example does that

set? If you don't want to be here... Does Mourinho buy buy into that at

United? I won't disagree, I don't think it is right. The final day of

League 1 fixtures this lunchtime, Bolton are a goal up on pita bread,

it is between them and Fleetwood on who takes the final automatic

promotion spot. Bolton Leeds Peterborough 1-0. Moving onto Hull,

does the argument apply? I suppose it would do? It applies to any

northern clubs, I suppose, any clubs that are not within shooting

distance of London. Let's hear from the Hull manager Marco Silva, they

had a goal a straw at Southampton yesterday. He spoke to Gary Lineker.

How are you enjoying life in the Premier League? Fantastic, it was

one goal I had in my career, when I started my career I wanted to prove

in my country my competence and the competence of my staff, but it is

one goal I had in my career, at the moment I am here and I enjoy it but

I need to prove every day my competence for my players, first of

all. I had to win games with my team. Are you surprised that the job

he has done? Turnaround, yes. Because I thought they were dead and

buried at the start of the season, going into January they sold

arguably best two players, but we talked about Sunderland, his

recruitment in January, players which he has earmarked. One of them

could not get a game for Everton reserves. I think that has been the

difference. People talk about their away record, they have had tough

away games, but the home record is sensational. A big point yesterday,

huge. He has also brought the best out of

Harry Maguire and Sam Clucas. It is not just about the players he has

brought in but the improvement in the players he has got there as

well. Yes. Credit to him but also credit to the people in the

background who brought him in. I certainly was not expecting his name

to be mentioned when he came in. I didn't really know who he was. I

thought they might have made a big mistake in not going to somebody

tried and tested but they seem to have picked the right man. His home

record is fantastic. You mentioned the players already at the club and

what this season, seconds after the season, he has had. -- what a

season, the second half of the season, he has had. Part of the

reason he has done such a good job is because the owners have done

their best to alienate the fan base with a series of crazy decisions.

The name change thing is one. The membership scheme that they have

implemented is another. They have some brilliant fans at Hull that the

owners don't deserve, frankly. They have made a great decision with

Marco Silva but it was overdue. I want to come onto his future, but

the point you make about the owners, we have discussed the owners that

Sunderland and we could talk about the championship and Bolelli and

Nottingham Forest and the disaffection there, and delete one,

commentary, about to be relegated, and a Leighton Orient, and Torquay

have struggled in the National League as well. -- in League One,

commentary. This would be nice to be the season that there is a great

look at the ownership of football clubs, wouldn't it? I think it would

be lovely to think that but I also think it would be naive. We talk

season after season about the fit and proper persons rule and what

that means. And season after season, people seem to slip through that

net. It seems to be a net with lots of holes. And we get situations like

that Mork when the owners just disappear, like at Orient, where the

owners betray the fans and a great club. -- like at Morecombe. And the

betrayal goes right to the end, where they play the last minutes of

the game behind closed doors, effectively. It is one of the things

about the modern game and I wish we could combat it because it pains me

when I see it, as it does all of us, I am sure, fans being treated like

that. Not having a big enough squad and not investing, but they have got

Marco Silva in. And right at the last moment they got all these

players in. Do you think they will have to work hard to keep him? Yes.

He will be courted. In this country and abroad? I would have thought so.

Other Premier League clubs, do you think? Yes, he has come in and

already shown that he can do it in the Premier League and get wins. I

feel that the bottom half of the Premier League, people will be

looking at him. He might want to move down south! Chris Sutton then

rolled his eyes at that comment! Will it be hard to keep him? Chris

will be laughing on the other side of his face when he does move south

and he might well do that. I think he has done a brilliant job. He had

an immediate impact. I was therefore not the first games under his

control, Bournemouth home. -- I was there for one of the first games

under his control, Bournemouth. He has recruited well. I don't agree

with a lot of the things the ownership has done, but as Chris was

alluding to when they sold Snodgrass and Tom Huddlestone, I thought they

were surrendering, but they have it. They got that right with the

recruitment and the changes they have made and they have every chance

of staying up. Final day in League One, Bolton or Fleetwood will go up

and Bolton are in the automatic promotion spot at the moment,

starting the day on 83 points. The details on that game, Gary Flintoff.

Bolton, they have the advantage. I deserved advantage. They have

dominated the majority of the first 33 minutes. A sweet cross turned

home at the far post by Carrick and. In truth Bolton have far more to

play for. Fleetwood two points behind at the start of the day. They

are at home to Port Vale. It is still goalless and a frustrating

start from Fleetwood to have largely been divulged by relegation

threatened Fleetwood. Both sides have already made injury enforced

substitutions and a draw would not be enough to prevent Port Vale going

down. 45 minutes gone, still goalless. Still goalless at Old

Trafford and the Premier League between Manchester United and

Swansea. And a word on Bailey, after their first away win of the season.

WSDL Palace. -- a word on Burnley after their first away win of the

season against Crystal Palace. Yes, they deserved it. I thought they

played really well and they took the goals well and it is an overdue

celebration for the fans. It is but going back to what we talked about

earlier, Sean Dyche has talked Burnley up in a realistic way

throughout the whole season. There is that but they have been better

organised and they have had more of an all-round goal threat. I actually

thought with Hull getting that point yesterday, Burnley were not sucked

right back in. That was an unbelievable response and

unexpected. Have they got a big summer ahead of them? He didn't go

daft last season. But if Marco Silva comes into Hull and in half a season

everybody is raving about him and where might he go next? Does that

mean that Burnley will have a big summer headwind Sean Dyche and

looking at certain areas of their squad if they lose football player?

It will be interesting to see who they recruit. Why can't see Sean

Dyche going anywhere that is what you are getting at. -- I can't see.

I wasn't getting at it. I was just bloating it out there. You were

getting at it. And given the week that Sean Dyche must have had as

well. Yes, they made the decision to bring him back and he is an

important player for them. Probably there is a slight feeling that

everybody feels the length of the ban was rather harsh. Not an easy

week. I certainly had Crystal Palace down for a win yesterday. It was a

terrific result. The ban is harsh in the sense of in relation to players

who have received suspensions for alleged racism or violent conduct or

physical violence, however in relation to certain other betting

problems, or players and managers getting involved in betting against

their own team, it is fairly consistent. It is consistent. I

agree with that. I agree that it is potentially a problem and absolutely

something we should not overlook. Maybe a slightly different subject,

tangential, but I would question in that case why the FA is sponsored by

Ladbrokes. I think that is absurd. I think you abdicate any

responsibility for policing the game in terms of betting if you take the

money from a betting firm. I suppose the problem is no matter how small

the amount that he bet on himself to be the first scorer, as I was

talking to Lyon about the other night, in a fan's mind, no matter

how small that that is, it could affect something in the game. You

are going to shoot rather than pass. There are lots of things I am unsure

about this. How you the length, and gambling is an addiction, but you

can't bet against your own team. He knew the parameters and that was

just plain daft. As players, you know you can't do it. That is wrong,

betting against your own team. In terms of the length, I can't work it

out. It is not proportionate. The rule came in in 2014, no betting at

all, and he broke the rules. He is wrong and he admitted as such. He

came out and he did that. I will mention again that I thought that

the betting company has happily taken his money for ten years and

then suddenly said, actually, we have noticed that he has been

betting for so long and they should have stopped it. For those who are

not listening the other night, you said when you're betting company

realised that you had bet, you are suspended. I started betting again

in October and by the end of October my account was suspended because

they thought I was still playing football and I had to get it

switched back on and thankfully I am now able to better again. They did

that within four to six weeks that I started betting so you are telling

me that they didn't notice for ten years that Joey Barton had a book

account? Ridiculous. Ian Oswald, Chris Sutton and Ollie Holt are with

me today this afternoon. -- Leon Osman. At 4:30pm there is commentary

on the north London derby, Spurs against Arsenal, close to finishing

ahead of Arsenal for the first time in years. But apparently that is not

important. It just emphasises the fact that they are the dominant team

at the moment. Arsenal say they are in for this derby, but they are not

important at the moment. It is one way of belittling Arsenal and

getting one over on them. Belittling or realistic? Probably both. Spurs

have had an excellent season and Arsenal have not, notwithstanding

the FA Cup final. Why shouldn't Spurs celebrate it? They are going

to avoid that whatever the result this afternoon. Why shouldn't they

celebrate it? They look like they are going in the right direction.

The derby still needs something. To say they are going for the title,

they probably mean it, but it is a local derby and it is important to

the local players. I think Spurs will win comfortably. If you are

player coming over to this country, who would you prefer to sign for?

Every day of the week, Spurs over Arsenal because they are better.

They have the better manager. It seems to be a more stable

environment and a club which seems to be going places. Arsenal seems to

be in reverse, until they make the decision over Arsene Wenger. There

will always be that uncertainty. Who would you rather sign for? At the

moment Spurs, as Chris said. They are improving year-on-year, moving

forward, with a clear goal of where they are going, while Arsenal seemed

to be in freefall, drifting. Mauricio Pochettino was asked this

week if he could guarantee that Dele Alli would be at the club next

season and this was his response. I can guarantee nothing in life. You

know? The most important is to try to enjoy the present. I am so sad

and I think you can understand. It is most important to be focused on

the present and don't think too much about the future. In the future we

will take the best decision for the club. After nearly three years, you

can see how the team was improving. Always our decisions at the moment

and so far are good. I think that is a great answer. It is irrelevant

what I think but it is a great answer. It isn't irrelevant. It is!

It is what you rethink. It is realistic, not sensationalist. I

can't guarantee anything. I think Spurs have got the point

that they have arrested the perception that they are a selling

club. There was a period where they would sell their best players to

United, seemingly season after season, sell their best players. OK,

sometimes an offer comes a wrong than somebody like Gareth Bale but

you can't refuse, and that might happen with Dele Alli at the mega

offer comes from one of the Spanish giants, will probably go. It is

quite refreshing to hear Pochettino talk like that. I hope that Dele

Alli stays in our league, I must admit, but if a big offer comes in

then he might go. What is he supposed to say? Ear is

definitely staying, and then... It is a sensible answer. If he said he

was definitely saying and then he sold the ?120 million, and afterward

she can't refuse, Dele Alli says I want to go, you will look like an

idiot and we would all be jumping on him. That is why I said I thought it

was a good answer! It is just a confrontational way of saying he

agrees. Him, confrontational, really ex-Mac if you were in that Spurs

dressing room, given how this season has gone and last season has gone,

if you feel like you were on the brink of something special, is it

realistic to think that the group are talking about, come on, we have

to state together? Yes. I would think that within the squad there

are a few of them saying that. It would be interesting to see if he

can keep the squad together. With them doing so well, there will be

suitors after some of the players. They have not won anything again, do

they start to think that it will not happen? They have the big move to

Wembley next season, so will that affect them, if we hang around for

another season, will we win something? I think it is a big sum

of the Pochettino, whether he can keep his players and keep them

believing in what they are doing. There is a penalty at Old Trafford

which is slightly confused Jose Mourinho as he was beginning his

half-time walk down the touchline and is now in the mouth of the

tunnel. From the reaction of the Swansea players, I guess they do not

agree, Will Perry? It is still goalless, Wayne Rooney has the ball

on the spot. Rashford went down. Was there any contact from goalkeeper

Lukaz Fabianski? I am not entirely sure. Wayne Rooney, in first half

stoppage time. Right foot, into the bottom right corner. Swansea's

players absolutely furious, in stoppage time at Old Trafford in the

first half, it is Manchester United one, Swansea nil. It is a double

whammy for Swansea, Chris Sutton has the best view of the monitor in the

studio, Swansea might also feel they should be playing against ten men?

Well, Rashford dived for the penalty, that was simulation. It was

a really poor decision and they will feel hard done by. There was a

yellow card the Jesse Lingard and some referees might have given red?

I am not sure it was a red card offence. I think he goes in with his

studs up, but he wins the ball. I can understand the yellow in that

instance. Never a penalty in a million years. Rashford dived. It is

interesting you blame the referee for the decision. Because he got it

wrong, that is what normally happens. But if you are saying the

player dived, surely your anguish would be aimed the player rather

than the referee? He dived, really poor from Rashford. Swansea will

feel done by, he simulated, he died, he should have been carded, really

poor. Manchester United lead Swansea 1-0, the half-time whistle has gone.

Do you think playing at Wembley will affect Spurs? I agree with Lyon, of

the top of my head, their record is poor at Wembley. Moving away from

home, I guess it is equivalent to when Arsenal moved away from

Highbury. The first season at a new stadium is difficult, everybody says

that. That is effectively what Spurs have, a season at a new stadium. It

will be difficult. They will have two seasons at stadiums. The project

you are asking your players, can you stick with us because in three

seasons we will be good enough? Three years is a very long time in a

professional football's career. Top players want success right now, to

add them to stick around because we might have it in three years, it is

asking a lot. The question you asked Leon about it simply is saying to

Dele Alli, please stay because we have something good going, I think

that is fanciful. Sorry if that is cynical. If Dele Alli has a big

money offer from, say, Real Madrid, and Kyle Walker is saying, please

stay, we might win the league... I did not just mean all of them

converging on one player saying, please stay, you are really

important, I meant it generally that there are rumours in the papers

about City wanting one of the full-backs, Manchester United

wanting Eric Dier, Barcelona and Real Madrid wanting Dele Alli. A few

of them, according to the papers, whether it is more reflective?

Excusing the presence of these two, players look after themselves. I am

not saying they are wrong to. Tartan and do not have to be a selling

club, they have something special going on -- Totten and do not have

today. You want to win as players. If you keep this group of players

together, they do not have to acts much. He needs to keep all of his

players, the minute one of his better players is gone, that does it

for the rest of them. Does that make other players braver in going to

their manager and saying, if player X has gone, maybe I will not get as

much stick if I try to go? Yes, and you think that if the best player

has gone the next season will be more difficult, if I have had an

offer from the top club, I will go. So you are questioning the ambition

of the club. Harry Kane, Alli, Tottenham fan would think they are

not serious about winning things. If you were a Spurs fan at the moment

you would think you are going places and are serious about winning

trophies, let's keep it together. The North London derby is at 4:30pm,

that is on 5 live, and highlights will be on Match of the Day 2.

Chelsea played at 2:05pm, Steve Wilson will be there.

All quiet at Goodison, but just wait until the theme from Z cars plays

out, it will be bouncing. A man who played for both Everton and Chelsea

is partnered in. This is really tough for Chelsea, probably the

hardest of the reigning games? Yes, they had that very tough game

against Southampton, but this is the one they have been looking for.

Spurs, they have bad Southampton game as well, they have done well.

They have come here with some level of confidence, it was seen as a

wobble, the two lost games, they feel like that is behind them and

they played very well during the week. A bit of confidence and

openness, they know if they get through the game they can possibly

get a win. Big favourites already, this is the one. Everton at home,

they have won their last eight Premier League matches, great form.

They were absolutely hammered at Stamford Bridge earlier in the

season, Chelsea's biggest win of the season, 5-0. Ronald Koeman try to

match them formation wise, we would not expect that? It would be strange

to go for that. They played 343, they were well beaten, but that is

the best performance I have seen from a Chelsea side in my entire

life, they were utterly brilliant. Playing, watching, anything. Every

player was superb, everything went well. You might look at different

things but you should probably not take too much from that because they

head to Chelsea when they were brilliant. Kumantsov did with three

at the back against Liverpool, it not work again. -- Senedd Ronald

Koeman did it with three at the back against Liverpool. They have not

been able to get by Tottenham Hotspur or Liverpool. They get to a

glass ceiling where they find it difficult, but it is at Goodison,

what to Everton have to lose? It does not look like they will fall

down, they will not fall down the league from here so they can play

with great confidence and openness and go for it. I don't see Chelsea

being any different. Patter is right, results yesterday

mean Everton have qualified for the qualifying rounds of the Europa

League for certain. Chelsea have big ambitions, should be some game.

Five lights will leave us for coverage of the Russian Grand Prix,

coverage of VAT on 5 live sport. On BBC Two at the BBC sport website we

continued talking about Everton against Chelsea. Starting with

Everton, mainly because you are in the studio and I had a tweet saying

with you even mention today or continue the anti-Everton BBC bias,

which obviously happens on a weekly basis. How do they break through the

glass season at your former club, that Pat Nevin was talking about.

With an injection of cash, they need a better standard of play. People

will want to play for the club. Ronald Koeman is doing that in his

two transfer windows, he has spent well, brought in the right top of

player. -- right type of player. It usually takes if you transfer

windows before you see an improvement, I believe Everton are

there. Jonathan Northcroft wrote a very good article in the Sunday

Times about a Romilly Lukaku, him being a flat track bully. We have

spoken about his record against the so-called bigger clubs, but what is

wrong with being a flat track bully? Nothing, if you are scoring goals,

but there is the accusation that he does not do it against the big

teams. There might be something in it. In terms of Everton going

forward and pushing, they have to keep Lukaku. He is outstanding. This

summer with him, it will be interesting, whether they hold onto

him. If Manchester United Liverpool had a flat track bully, if this is

what we are calling them, score lots against sides outside of the top

seeds, arguably Man United and Liverpool might be having a chance

at the title, their problems have come against sides lower down.

Lukaku has done a very good job for Everton? He has. It is an

interesting question and an interesting point. To answer the

question, what is wrong with it, it begs questions about your ability at

the top level if you do not score against the best defences, the top

teams. What does that say about your ability when you get to the big

games? Maybe it is OK being a flat track bully at Everton, who are

trying to bridge that gap to the top, but when you get to the top

teams and your ambitions are higher and you are trying to talk about

winning titles, you also have to score against the top teams. He is

still only 24, Leon, what is he like? A group very determined. He is

24, you would not realise it. He is so physically mature, he has spent a

few years in the Premier League, he broke through quite young. He has a

real belief in his ability and a desire to get to the top. Going back

to the flat track bully, if he continues to do that, Everton will

peak, they will only get to a certain level if he is only scoring

goals for them against the lower teams. Everton will not be able to

beat their current finish. But it is up to others to step up their game

as well? Yes, you rely on your team but you rely on your striker to

score. When you get to the top games away from home, you need your

striker. Don't give him the Golden Boot because the only scores against

the lower teams, it does not count. Utterly ridiculous. It is. We will

end and Chris's seventh use of the word ridiculous this season. Thank

you to Chris, Leon and Ollie. See you next week.