Justice QI XL


Justice

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Transcript


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This programme contains very strong language.

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CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

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Good evening, good evening, good evening, good evening,

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good evening, good evening, good evening, good evening,

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and welcome to QI for an episode which is all about Justice.

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Members of the jury, the just Brian Cox.

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CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

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The judicious Rhys Darby.

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CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

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The judgmental Jason Manford.

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CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

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And a jailbird, Alan Davies.

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CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

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Well, in case I nod off during these proceedings,

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you all know how to catch my attention, it's with a buzzer.

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And Jason goes...

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HAMMER POUNDING

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Brian goes...

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'All rise.'

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Rhys goes...

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'Order! Order!'

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And Alan goes...

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GUILLOTINE

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LAUGHTER

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Excellent. So let's start laying down the law.

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Describe the rules...

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Oh, he's free! Escapology.

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I'll tell you what, being a copper back then,

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-when everyone dressed like that, was well easy...

-It was, wasn't it, really.

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I think it might be him, I might be that guy.

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-I'm going to take this off, cos the bridge of my nose is rubbing.

-Oh, you don't want that.

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Oh, my God, it's Alan Davies!

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Hello, everyone.

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Noel Coward was at a rehearsal when one of the actors was picking his nose, he thought, secretly,

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and Noel shouted, "Wave when you get to the bridge!"

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LAUGHTER

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Anyway, describe the rules on a pirate ship.

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Rules?

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Yeah. But what sort of rules would they have?

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-Obviously, they've got a captain.

-Yes.

-So he's in charge.

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So I imagine he gets most of the gold and whatever they find.

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Well, oddly enough, no. They had two senior officers - the captain and the quartermaster.

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And the captain could be vetoed by the quartermaster

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-on all matters except battle, except rules of engagement, when fighting.

-Oh, OK.

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And they had strong laws.

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And the quartermaster was, he was about how much they divvied out,

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including he decided how much the captain got.

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The captain had no special quarters,

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he didn't have a, you know, wonderful room,

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such as you imagine in movies.

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So it's not exactly hierarchical, it's kind of a rule of two, the quartermaster and the captain.

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Otherwise, it was more or less a democracy, in a strange sort of way.

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But with strict rules.

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For example, in Captain Bartholomew Roberts' ship, the Fortune,

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there was no gambling, it was like a boarding school -

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no smuggling girls into the dorm, no playing music on a Sunday.

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And lights out at eight o'clock sharp in the evening.

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-It's rubbish being a pirate.

-I know.

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-It's not quite what you imagine is it.

-Sack the captain, that's rubbish.

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-But also...

-Where are you going to smuggle these girls from anyway?

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-That's true.

-Mermaids.

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-If you rescue one from the sea... No, no, no, no.

-There is a wonderful book that Vic Reeves mentioned.

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-He's an expert on pirates.

-He's love a pirate.

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He loves pirates, and it's a book that both he and I had read,

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called Sodomy And The Piratical Tradition.

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-And it's a very well-known work.

-I'm so sorry, Brian.

-No, it is!

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-LAUGHTER

-You thought we were quite highbrow and intellectual.

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It is a very serious work of history and very interesting,

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which goes into the way these things were run.

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But, obviously with the emphasis on the sodomy.

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But there was also...

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Were there rules surrounding that particular pursuit?

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There were rules, indeed there where, absolutely.

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Very strict rules. You couldn't just take whomever you please, no.

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-What were the rules of sodomy?

-Not on Sundays.

-LAUGHTER

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I, I... It's eye-wateringly complex.

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-LAUGHTER

-You're too young and too innocent to know.

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-Honestly, really.

-For future reference!

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Stick to small things like supernovas,

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this is really too explosive.

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"Eye-wateringly complex."

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When it came to women aboard, the articles of Captain George Lowther,

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who was a famous pirate of his day said,

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"If at any time you meet with a prudent woman,

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"that man that offers to meddle with her,

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"without her consent, shall suffer present death."

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So meddling with a prudent woman without her consent got you death.

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So they really were very strict with each other.

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-So meddling was rape, really?

-Essentially, we're talking about rape.

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-That lost its meaning by the time Scooby Doo came on.

-Exactly.

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LAUGHTER

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Why if you pesky kids hadn't meddled!

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Notorious gang rapists.

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LAUGHTER

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That's just terrible. I'm ashamed of you.

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Do they have pirates in New Zealand?

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We've been attacked by pirates on occasion.

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And you didn't have anyone transported to New Zealand, like Australia?

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-No, it was a destination of choice for those seeking adventure...

-Yeah.

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..and death.

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-LAUGHTER

-Nothing's changed.

-Nothing much has changed, no, exactly.

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Why is the pirate's voice similar to the farmer's voice?

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Why, is there something, "Aarr, get off my land!"

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The same sort of...

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There's one man responsible, do you know who it is?

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-It'll be a film actor.

-Yes.

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Oh, OK.

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-In Treasure Island?

-He played in a great performance of Treasure Island,

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and, in fact, Tony Hancock, the great comedian,

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he first started out as an impersonator of this actor.

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-Laughton?

-No, not quite as well-known as Laughton.

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In his own day, he was very, very well-known,

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but now, less well-known.

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Anybody?

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AUDIENCE: It was someone mentioned on QI before.

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Someone, we've mentioned it on QI before.

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Ah, hang on a minute, we're getting heckled.

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The chances of Alan remembering it are remote.

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Someone at the front is saying, "You've done this!"

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LAUGHTER

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-Who are these...?!

-This was on Dave on Tuesday!

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LAUGHTER

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New facts! New facts!

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-Well, it was Robert Newton anyway, the actor.

-Robert Newton.

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GUILLOTINE

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-Thank you, yes.

-Robert Newton.

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Robert Newton is the right answer, but it doesn't count cos we've had it before.

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David Prowse almost did that, didn't he, to Darth Vader.

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-He had a West Country accent, didn't he?

-Yes, he did.

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-And he thought that it would be used, didn't he?

-Yes.

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With his West Country accent, it got re-dubbed by James Earl Jones.

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IN A WEST COUNTRY ACCENT: "I am your father."

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LAUGHTER

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IN A WEST COUNTRY ACCENT: "Aarh, I'm your father and I'm your brother as well."

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LAUGHTER

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Sorry, for when I taught there. Joking!

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-See?

-Darth Vader on a big tractor.

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Trundling down the corridors of the Death Star chewing a bit of straw.

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-IN A WEST COUNTRY ACCENT:

-"Darth."

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-"Darth."

-"Darth."

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-"Mr Darth to you."

-"Mr Darth, Mr Darth."

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LAUGHTER

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It's, yeah, anyway. Um...

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LAUGHTER

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You know the skull and crossbone flag?

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-Yes.

-Did they really have that? Cos that's giving it away.

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-We definitely covered that in the last series.

-Really? I must have missed it.

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-Yeah, Alan will tell you all about it.

-Go on.

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GUILLOTINE

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Jolly Roger.

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-Well, everyone knows it's called the Jolly Roger.

-LAUGHTER

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Or is that a proposition?

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LAUGHTER

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-Maybe later, Alan.

-It's been, it's been ten years, Stephen,

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and I've finally come round to it.

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LAUGHTER

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-Hurrah! At last.

-It's time for a Jolly Roger.

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An eye-watering Jolly Roger.

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All right, now, what's the difference between a Californian prison and a medieval dungeon?

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You can see we've very cunningly placed the Tower of London,

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which is a medieval dungeon, next to Alcatraz, which is, of course, a famous Californian prison.

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Is it anything to do with the fact that you can't get out?

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-Alcatraz is famous, isn't it, of being, like...

-Of prison!

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-LAUGHTER No, not out of prison.

-How do you get out of prison?

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If you're popped in the dungeon, you're given manacles like you had earlier,

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and you're given board and lodging, essentially,

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and we go on today about prisoners...

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"It's like a hotel, look at how much it costs the government."

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-They've made them work.

-Not just made them work, they made them PAY.

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They had to pay for their manacles, they had to pay for their foot gyves,

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everything, they had to pay for their accommodation.

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-So they had jobs?

-No, that was the awful thing.

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A lot of them, pretty obviously, were not very rich,

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so what happened was they usually then ended up in debtors' prison

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cos they couldn't afford to pay the fee.

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Is that a picture of the returns desk? Those are a nightmare.

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-Really hurt.

-When they closed the Fleet Prison in the '40s,

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they discovered some people had been there 40 years for what was

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a small debt they couldn't pay. Anyway, the point is,

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medieval dungeons, you had to pay your fee, and in California,

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at least in Riverside County, they have reintroduced such a system.

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-Its county jail now charges inmates 140 a day to be in jail.

-Wow!

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-That's more than, like, a Premier Inn.

-It's more than a Premier Inn.

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That's more than Lenny Henry pays to stay in hotels.

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So that is quite a lot of money. Yes.

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Then again, there's no table tennis at Premier Inn.

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-You got to weigh it up, haven't you?

-It's true.

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Pamela Walls of the council, noted it may prove hard to collect

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reimbursements because "those defendants who are convicted

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"of crimes and incarcerated typically have limited funds."

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What a system!

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The supervisor, Jeff Stone, he thinks these are very challenging economic times

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and it could be a great source of revenue, could return three to five million dollars a year.

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But, unlike in Britain where you still had to pay even if you were innocent,

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at least in California if you turn out not to have been guilty, you get your money back.

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-Oh, do you?

-Yeah.

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But, like, where are these people getting their money from?

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From crime, isn't it? So all it's doing is encouraging them to rob more stuff.

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"I'm going into prison, right, I'd better rob a load of stuff, it could cost me a fortune."

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"They're just about to catch me, I'd better rush into this shop and take the till."

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They can work once they are in prison, though, can't they?

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-From in prison.

-Indeed, in most prisons prisoners work.

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-When I was in prison I worked.

-Set up a little lemonade stand or something

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in the basketball court.

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I had to paint soldiers when I was in prison. I was in prison when I was 18.

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-Toy ones?

-They were little toy ones, it was quite, sort of, relaxing work.

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Then I was put on the polishing the corridor duty which was not so pleasant.

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-When we were you in prison? I didn't know.

-Did you not know?

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-Oh, I have a chequered past.

-Is this a can of worms.

-It was four years ago now.

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LAUGHTER

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We've moved on, Brian. We've moved on.

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Many people think I should still be.

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You go through an institution for several years and you come out in debt?

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-Rather like being a student.

-Yes, exactly. Very well put.

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Except you learn probably a lot more in prison than you would...

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LAUGHTER

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-You learn a trade.

-You come out with a trade.

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Useful trade. Bouncing. You learn how to be a bouncer.

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Don't take this question personally, Alan,

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-I didn't write this question. All right?

-OK.

-OK.

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Now, what sort of person would say that Alan has a very small penis?

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LAUGHTER

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I'm sorry.

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My wife.

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No! No.

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And this is a legal question?

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-It is very much a legal question, yes.

-Oh, OK.

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I'll tell you the world we're in, we're in the world of defamation, right?

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Let's say I was to write a novel

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about someone who presented a quiz show called KI,

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who was called Simon Dry.

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And he had a regular sidekick

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with curly hair who was called Andrew Devons,

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and had a very small penis.

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The idea is that he'll never sue

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cos he'll never say this is obviously based on me.

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Cos no-one will say, "It's obviously based on me,

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"because my name's like that and I've got a small... Oh, hang on."

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LAUGHTER

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-Oh, I see.

-So that's the idea, is that when you want to slander somebody,

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you put in certain things that they would never admit to.

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They'd be too embarrassed to say that it's like them.

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There was a writer who was snubbed by Martin Amis,

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the great novelist, that's Martin Amis, there.

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Peter James was snubbed by him and he got his own back by creating a character

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called Amis Smallbone, whose manhood is compared to a stubby pencil.

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-And presumably Martin Amis has not sued.

-Was it Martin Amis...?

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Who was it wrote about Norman Mailer and put a little, sort of,

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to the appendix, to the index, because he knew that Norman would always look,

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-Norman Mailer, and it just said, "Hi, Norm."

-That's right.

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It's a bit like the Jewish joke, isn't it, about will being read out.

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"To my brother-in-law, Louis, who always wanted

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"to be mentioned in my will - hello, Louis!"

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LAUGHTER

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Why do we get away with that, as stand-up comedians,

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when someone heckles you and you have a go back

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and you say something in front of a room, you know...

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Well, it's a kind of understood contract

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between an audience and a comedian,

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that someone heckles and you go,

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"If I want any shit from you, I'll squeeze your head,"

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-or whatever, you know. Some story...

-What was that?

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LAUGHTER

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So...

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LAUGHTER

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What else would you say? What other things?

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-Just one example.

-I'm not going to give away my best heckler remarks.

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But what I mean is, if you made a joke heckle,

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-that's not defamatory.

-OK.

-I mean, that's the point.

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So, tit for tat doesn't stand up in court, does it?

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-No, I don't think so, exactly.

-He started it.

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-Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

-LAUGHTER

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But there are various defences.

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And in the case, which is an obviously untrue one, of Alan's small penis, for example,

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-one defence is the truth...

-LAUGHTER

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..that the person does have a small penis,

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the other is parliamentary privilege.

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So a Member of Parliament can get up and say, "Alan Davies, Mr Speaker, has a small penis."

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And another Member of Parliament will get up and say,

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"He's a grower, not a shower!"

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LAUGHTER

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-Yeah, lovely. Yeah.

-Point of order!

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The point is, you couldn't sue either of them,

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because under parliamentary privilege, there is no action that can be taken.

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There's increased privilege in peer reviewed scientific journals as well.

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Oh, that's privileged?

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Yes, it is, to some extent.

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So that if you are quite rude about a fellow scientist...

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Yeah. As long as it's in a peer reviewed journal,

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and it's not malicious, then you are allowed to do it.

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In the interests of freedom of debate.

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I could publish a paper reviewed by my peers about your penis

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and I would be relatively immune unless I was being malicious about it.

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Right. Now that's the phrase, of course, they use in American defamatory law,

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is "absence of malice".

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If you can prove absence of malice, then, you can say almost anything which allows...

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IN WOMAN'S VOICE: "I like your small penis."

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LAUGHTER

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And that's...

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It's very, very tiny, but it's wonderful.

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Surely at some point sarcasm must come in.

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Well, there's that. If you can prove that, exactly.

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So the other one is good faith.

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I...I genuinely thought he had a small penis,

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I didn't mean it as defamatory, it was said in good faith.

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That's one thing. The other is opinion, which is -

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it was just my opinion. Compared to mine, it's small, OK. Right.

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LAUGHTER

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-It's a review.

-It's a review, exactly.

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One star.

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The other is public, the public interest.

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The public has a right to know the size of Alan Davies's penis!

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LAUGHTER

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That might be a defence. The other is consent.

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He agreed with me about the size of his penis.

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LAUGHTER

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The other one is vulgar abuse.

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Surely, you didn't believe me when I said you had a small penis.

0:15:270:15:30

I was just being rude to you. It was not, I was not defaming you.

0:15:300:15:34

It would be like if I called you, you know, one of the unacceptable taboo swearwords,

0:15:340:15:39

if I called you a motherfucker, you know, is not defaming you,

0:15:390:15:42

whereas if I actually wrote down

0:15:420:15:43

that I believed you actually incestuously did have sex with your mother, that would be defamatory.

0:15:430:15:49

Do you see? So that's the difference.

0:15:490:15:51

Not with a penis that size!

0:15:510:15:52

LAUGHTER

0:15:520:15:54

APPLAUSE

0:15:540:15:56

That's just going all over the place.

0:15:560:15:58

Can we see the evidence?

0:15:580:16:00

LAUGHTER

0:16:000:16:01

I just...it's all about evidence.

0:16:010:16:03

-Not from there, it's minute.

-Oh, no!

0:16:030:16:06

-Just let me, let me...

-No, no, now, Brian.

-Let's settle this.

0:16:060:16:08

No, but the first person at home going,

0:16:080:16:10

"I should never have gone HD."

0:16:100:16:12

LAUGHTER

0:16:120:16:14

LAUGHTER

0:16:150:16:18

Oh!

0:16:180:16:19

LAUGHTER

0:16:190:16:21

"Rise..."

0:16:210:16:22

LAUGHTER

0:16:220:16:25

APPLAUSE

0:16:250:16:27

Very good.

0:16:290:16:32

Thank you. Thank you. There is...

0:16:320:16:35

LAUGHTER

0:16:350:16:37

Is this on BBC Three these days?

0:16:370:16:39

LAUGHTER

0:16:390:16:40

I'm so sorry, Brian, I know.

0:16:400:16:43

Anyway, that's the point.

0:16:430:16:44

Saying a character isn't very well-hung could save you from a libel action.

0:16:440:16:47

Which reality TV format was invented by Charlemagne's father?

0:16:470:16:52

There's a picture of Charlemagne.

0:16:520:16:55

-Big Brother?

-It's not as well-known as Big Brother,

0:16:550:16:57

I will give you a clue.

0:16:570:16:59

Celebrity Big Brother?

0:16:590:17:00

LAUGHTER

0:17:000:17:01

On Channel 5.

0:17:010:17:03

I'm a king, get me out of here?

0:17:030:17:05

That would cover it. I can tell you it was presented by Dale Winton.

0:17:050:17:10

Supermarket Sweep?

0:17:100:17:12

No, I...

0:17:120:17:13

LAUGHTER

0:17:130:17:14

Total Wipe Out? What else has he done?

0:17:140:17:15

Ah, you're pretty good, you're good on...

0:17:150:17:17

-See, I know the workings of...

-Big fan.

-Yeah.

0:17:170:17:20

-You're good on Dale.

-Yeah.

-Who was this?

0:17:200:17:21

You probably don't know who Dale Winton is, do you?

0:17:210:17:24

Uh... Chap or lady?

0:17:240:17:25

LAUGHTER

0:17:250:17:27

Audience, behave!

0:17:270:17:29

LAUGHTER

0:17:290:17:31

-He's a very charming gentleman, Mr Winton.

-OK.

0:17:330:17:37

Well turned out, crisply well turned out gentleman, very nice man.

0:17:370:17:40

Who was his father...?

0:17:400:17:41

Charlemagne's father is a good question.

0:17:410:17:44

Unlikely to have heard of him, I'll be very impressed if you've heard of him.

0:17:440:17:47

He was called Pepin the Short, unfortunately,

0:17:470:17:49

but if you go back to, this is even pre-medieval, this is the dark ages,

0:17:490:17:53

if you go back to that time, justice was meted out in all kinds of odd ways.

0:17:530:17:56

And one of the odd ways it was a system of testing,

0:17:560:17:59

which was called an ordeal.

0:17:590:18:01

-An ordeal.

-Ordeal.

-Ordeal.

0:18:010:18:02

-There were various kinds of ordeal.

-So it's ordeal or no ordeal?

0:18:020:18:05

LAUGHTER

0:18:050:18:07

Hey, hey!

0:18:070:18:08

If only... If only it were Noel Edmonds we were talking about,

0:18:080:18:12

-then that would be...

-He really is an ordeal.

0:18:120:18:14

-Is he a lady or a man?

-Is Noel Edmonds a...?

0:18:140:18:16

LAUGHTER

0:18:160:18:17

Well, ordeals. This particular ordeal involved...

0:18:170:18:22

two people had a quarrel

0:18:220:18:24

and they both had to make the shape of a cross, you see, and stay there.

0:18:240:18:29

-I don't know what that's about.

-What's happening there?!

0:18:290:18:32

LAUGHTER

0:18:320:18:33

Someone said he's got a small penis and they're just checking.

0:18:330:18:36

Yeah. Are you a real doctor?

0:18:360:18:38

LAUGHTER

0:18:380:18:39

It was called Judicium Crucis, "the justice of the cross" in Latin.

0:18:390:18:43

And, basically, it's a bit like those school punishments

0:18:430:18:46

where they make you do that, if you ever did that.

0:18:460:18:48

And the one who just dropped his hands first was wrong.

0:18:480:18:50

And it happened to the Archbishop of Paris with the Abbot of St Denis,

0:18:500:18:54

only they would use champions to do it for them,

0:18:540:18:56

so they would say, "You on my behalf

0:18:560:18:59

"stand for as long as you can in a cross,"

0:18:590:19:01

and, in this case, the Archbishop of Paris won.

0:19:010:19:04

It's a pity you have to nominate somebody,

0:19:040:19:05

cos if you didn't, you could just pick on old people in those days, you know...

0:19:050:19:09

LAUGHTER

0:19:090:19:10

I won. It would be brilliant.

0:19:100:19:12

You could have ordeal by tickling, they genuinely had all kinds of ordeals,

0:19:120:19:15

ordeals by water, ordeals by fire and so on.

0:19:150:19:18

But there is a car game...

0:19:180:19:19

Is it that one where you have got to keep your hand on the car?

0:19:190:19:22

-Ah!

-Yeah, and then the last one wins it.

0:19:220:19:24

-You see, you do know it.

-Yes, I do.

0:19:240:19:26

Dale Winton presented, I think on Channel 5...

0:19:260:19:28

That rings a bell, yeah.

0:19:280:19:29

..an endurance game show based on a Japanese original

0:19:290:19:32

called Touch The Truck.

0:19:320:19:34

That's Dale there, on top of it.

0:19:340:19:37

I'd love to watch that. Just loads of people touching a car and then, that's it.

0:19:370:19:40

-Yeah.

-For an hour.

0:19:400:19:42

For an hour? 81 hours. It's because...

0:19:420:19:45

Well, I'd Sky Plus it and fast forward through it.

0:19:450:19:47

Yeah, I was going to say. It's basically the last one to give up on touching the truck.

0:19:470:19:51

-It doesn't do anything, you just stand...

-No, you have to touch it.

0:19:510:19:54

Yeah, it's going 80 mile an hour.

0:19:540:19:55

LAUGHTER

0:19:550:19:57

-Now, that would be a game.

-Now, that's a game show.

0:19:570:19:59

You were allowed...

0:19:590:20:01

LAUGHTER

0:20:010:20:02

You were allowed a ten-minute break every two hours

0:20:020:20:05

and 15 minutes every six hours.

0:20:050:20:07

But this is made-up, no-one would put their hands on...

0:20:070:20:09

If you fell asleep, you were disqualified,

0:20:090:20:11

so you had to stay awake.

0:20:110:20:13

You couldn't just lie on the car with your hand on it,

0:20:130:20:15

so you had to be consciously touching it.

0:20:150:20:17

And if, the idea was, the last person left touching it won it.

0:20:170:20:21

And the winner, you'll probably want to know all about him, I expect,

0:20:210:20:24

he won the truck, obviously, and he sold it,

0:20:240:20:28

in order to raise funds to stand as a political...

0:20:280:20:31

-For arm surgery.

-No.

0:20:310:20:33

..to stand as a political candidate.

0:20:330:20:35

He stood for Kingston and Surbiton at the 2001 general election.

0:20:350:20:38

There was a turn-out of 49,093 people and he secured 54 votes.

0:20:380:20:44

Wow.

0:20:440:20:46

LAUGHTER

0:20:460:20:47

We do it in New Zealand,

0:20:470:20:49

that's a radio show contest that quite often happens.

0:20:490:20:51

-Yeah, we're probably the last country still doing it.

-I have to say...

0:20:510:20:55

That's the only way you can get your cars, back in New Zealand.

0:20:550:20:57

LAUGHTER

0:20:570:20:59

Doing it on radio sounds even weirder to me, I have to say.

0:20:590:21:01

They're still touching it. They're still touching it...

0:21:010:21:04

Do you have to drum on it?

0:21:040:21:05

No, they interview the people who are touching the car.

0:21:050:21:08

So, "I've got John here, how's it going?

0:21:080:21:10

"Ah, good, I'm still touching it." You know.

0:21:100:21:12

"How many hours now? Seven."

0:21:120:21:14

LAUGHTER

0:21:140:21:16

Anyway, that's it,

0:21:160:21:17

that's basically a game show inspired by a dark ages...

0:21:170:21:20

-Endurance sort of thing.

-..endurance test, yeah. Extraordinary, isn't it?

0:21:200:21:23

What sentence would you recommend in Jedward Justice?

0:21:230:21:28

-Life.

-Life!

0:21:280:21:30

I feel very sorry for Rhys, we're giving you all kinds of cultural references

0:21:300:21:33

that can mean nothing to you. Have you heard of Jedward?

0:21:330:21:36

Are they judges?

0:21:360:21:37

LAUGHTER

0:21:370:21:39

-They look very young.

-They are, I believe, Irish.

0:21:390:21:41

-Are they twins or just brothers?

-They're conjoined twin judges.

0:21:410:21:44

-Are they, they're not conjoined, are they?

-Well, they've done well, haven't they?

0:21:440:21:48

LAUGHTER

0:21:480:21:49

-Sorry. I didn't know!

-Yes.

0:21:490:21:51

That's the whole thing about them, that they're conjoined.

0:21:510:21:54

-Oh, they are Siamese twins, are they?

-They're conjoined twins, yeah.

0:21:540:21:57

LAUGHTER

0:21:570:22:00

-Is he having me on? He's having me on.

-No, it looks like they are.

0:22:000:22:02

-Come on!

-Who has the arm in the middle?

0:22:020:22:05

LAUGHTER

0:22:050:22:07

They do look a little strange, I have to say,

0:22:070:22:09

but that's probably because of the wig business.

0:22:090:22:11

No, no, nothing to do with the wig.

0:22:110:22:13

LAUGHTER

0:22:130:22:14

-Right, OK.

-The wig's got nothing to do with it.

0:22:140:22:16

There really is such a thing as Jedward Justice. This pre-dates these twinsters.

0:22:160:22:20

-Maybe that's where they got their name from.

-Oh, I don't think so.

0:22:200:22:22

This is a town which was originally called Jedward,

0:22:220:22:25

and then it changed its name to Jedburgh.

0:22:250:22:28

It still exists. Jedburgh, you may have heard of it?

0:22:280:22:30

-In the northeast.

-It is, it's on the Borders, in fact.

0:22:300:22:33

It's a Border town, and that's the clue, really.

0:22:330:22:35

But the Borders, as you know,

0:22:350:22:37

suffered, throughout history, incursions and raids from England...

0:22:370:22:40

From the rain.

0:22:400:22:41

..raiding through Scotland, stealing and vice versa.

0:22:410:22:45

And they were often summarily hanged without a trial.

0:22:450:22:49

And it was known as Jedward Justice.

0:22:490:22:51

And our name for that, where someone is especially killed without a trial

0:22:510:22:55

is... What word do we use for that?

0:22:550:22:57

-Oh, a lynch mob.

-Lynch, lynch, lynch.

0:22:570:22:59

Now, where does the word lynch, why is it called lynch?

0:22:590:23:01

I have absolutely no idea.

0:23:010:23:03

Well, there's a claim to the origin of the term lynch,

0:23:030:23:07

which is a man called James Lynch Fitzstephen,

0:23:070:23:10

who was the mayor of Galway, in Ireland.

0:23:100:23:12

And he hanged his own son from the balcony of his house

0:23:120:23:16

after convicting him of the murder of a Spanish visitor in 1493.

0:23:160:23:20

-So that's pretty bold, isn't it?

-Wow.

0:23:200:23:23

A bike...

0:23:230:23:24

It's extreme. "He learnt his lesson. He never did it again."

0:23:240:23:28

LAUGHTER

0:23:280:23:29

No.

0:23:290:23:30

Did you say hanged his own son for stealing a bike?

0:23:300:23:33

-No.

-No!

-Did you, what did you think I said?

-Did you nod off?

0:23:330:23:36

I misheard you, because I'm so hungry, I don't know what I'm saying.

0:23:360:23:39

-No, for killing a...

-I can't concentrate when I'm hungry.

-..killing a Spaniard.

0:23:390:23:42

-For killing a Spanish visitor, yeah, a Spaniard.

-Has anyone got any food?

0:23:420:23:45

-He killed...

-Do you not listen to...?

-No, he doesn't.

0:23:450:23:48

-I'm starving hungry.

-Are you?

0:23:480:23:49

And now I can't concentrate because I'm having a blood sugar crash.

0:23:490:23:52

I hope you never get called up for jury service

0:23:520:23:54

and you're hungry in the afternoon.

0:23:540:23:56

What was it, killed a Spaniard or stole a bike?

0:23:560:23:59

LAUGHTER

0:23:590:24:01

It's quite an important difference.

0:24:010:24:03

-I'm starving.

-Yeah...

-Can I have an apple?

0:24:030:24:05

-Where did that come from?

-I don't know.

-Stole a bike?

-He was, your mind was wandering.

0:24:050:24:09

I was just drifting off, I was thinking about pasta.

0:24:090:24:12

LAUGHTER

0:24:120:24:13

When his brain sugar drops,

0:24:130:24:14

I'm afraid all kinds of weird things start to happen.

0:24:140:24:18

Has no-one got something to eat here? Can we not...

0:24:180:24:20

-Are you bringing something down?

-Here you are.

0:24:200:24:22

-Thank you very much.

-What have we got?

0:24:220:24:24

APPLAUSE

0:24:240:24:26

-Some homemade flapjacks.

-Oh, flapjacks!

0:24:290:24:32

-Flapjacks.

-Yes! Thank you.

0:24:320:24:34

-Can I have a kiss?

-Yeah, go on.

-Oh, she has to have a kiss.

0:24:340:24:38

Very good.

0:24:380:24:39

APPLAUSE

0:24:390:24:43

Have you got something to eat for Stephen as well?

0:24:430:24:46

-No, no, honestly, I'm fine.

-When was the bicycle invented?

0:24:460:24:48

-It wasn't invented in 1493, was it? So it's doubly...

-No, it wasn't.

0:24:480:24:51

Doubly ridiculous.

0:24:510:24:52

LAUGHTER

0:24:520:24:54

I love the fact that you were questioning Alan's,

0:24:540:24:56

as if Alan's mind works on logical rails.

0:24:560:25:00

He wouldn't be found guilty of that.

0:25:000:25:02

"Stole me bike. You what? I don't know."

0:25:020:25:05

-Don't even know what one is.

-Don't know what it is.

0:25:050:25:07

It should be just enough sugar to get your mind

0:25:070:25:09

to tell the difference between somebody murdering a Spaniard and stealing bikes.

0:25:090:25:13

LAUGHTER

0:25:130:25:14

Before the invention of the bike.

0:25:140:25:15

Yeah, exactly. All right.

0:25:150:25:17

-Let's just do the question again, come on.

-No, no.

0:25:170:25:19

-LAUGHTER

-You don't get away with it that easily.

0:25:190:25:22

Anyway, moving on, why should you never leave a judge in a room on his own?

0:25:220:25:27

He might sentence himself.

0:25:280:25:31

LAUGHTER

0:25:310:25:33

-As it were.

-As it were.

-As 't were, yeah.

0:25:340:25:36

-You're not allowed to. Well, if you're a barrister, you're not allowed to.

-That's right.

0:25:380:25:42

I used to work at the Crown Courts in Manchester, as a...

0:25:420:25:46

As the accused. LAUGHTER

0:25:460:25:50

-No, my dad and auntie were stenographers.

-Oh, right!

0:25:500:25:53

-So I used to, over the summer...

-Oh, they used those machines. Oh, my goodness!

-That sort of palaver.

0:25:530:25:58

And if you were the last barrister knocking about,

0:25:580:26:00

you weren't allowed to leave if the judge was still in.

0:26:000:26:04

Exactly right. It's called dressing the judge.

0:26:040:26:07

You don't actually dress him, it's just known as dressing the judge.

0:26:070:26:10

Smug looking lot there, aren't they?

0:26:100:26:12

The one at the back's had a lovely moment.

0:26:120:26:15

LAUGHTER

0:26:150:26:18

He really is... It's a bit of a bliss-out, isn't it?

0:26:180:26:21

He's really very happy. But in fact, in actual terms of dressing a judge,

0:26:210:26:24

it's a very expensive business.

0:26:240:26:26

The High Court judges' attire can amount to £14,920.

0:26:260:26:31

That's quite expensive for your work year.

0:26:310:26:33

It includes the cost of two scarlet robes like this, and a silk one.

0:26:330:26:37

The horse hair wig costs £1,295.

0:26:370:26:41

They have court britches with buckles at £665.

0:26:410:26:43

Stockings, suspenders.

0:26:430:26:45

-Well, they do have to wear stockings.

-Bras.

0:26:450:26:48

When you take silk, you have to wear

0:26:480:26:50

two pairs of stockings as a barrister, and the reason for that

0:26:500:26:52

is that Queen Victoria was very offended by the sight of

0:26:520:26:55

-men's hairs sticking out from their legs through the silk tights.

-JASON: That is horrible.

0:26:550:27:00

So they have to wear two pairs of tights so their hairs didn't stick out.

0:27:000:27:03

And this tradition continues to today. Isn't that interesting?

0:27:030:27:06

-Yes, it is, Stephen. Thank you. Good.

-LAUGHTER

0:27:060:27:08

But the wig sort of doubles up now.

0:27:080:27:10

I don't know if it's always been the case, but in a sort of Superman type disguise,

0:27:100:27:16

if you ever see a judge out of his wig and robe, he looks completely different.

0:27:160:27:21

So he can sort of have a little wonder around Manchester city centre

0:27:210:27:24

even though everyone hates him, and no-one knows that it is him.

0:27:240:27:26

That is one of the reasons they cling on to this whole business,

0:27:260:27:29

they say it gives them a kind of anonymity.

0:27:290:27:32

-Barristers are not allowed to shake hands with each other either.

-I didn't know that. That's a good one.

0:27:320:27:36

They're not allowed to shake hands with each other.

0:27:360:27:39

-RHYS:

-They fist pump, do they?

0:27:390:27:41

LAUGHTER

0:27:410:27:43

Out-of-court, they don't shake hands with each other.

0:27:430:27:46

-How interesting!

-I think it must be down to just, well, if he's looking after me,

0:27:460:27:50

I don't want to see him fraternising with the enemy, sort of thing.

0:27:500:27:53

Do you know about this one? If you're not properly dressed as a barrister,

0:27:530:27:56

if you've not got the right black-and-white,

0:27:560:27:58

or you're wearing a colourful tie or something like that, the judge, as it were, can't see you.

0:27:580:28:03

-Oh, right.

-He actually says, "I cannot see you."

0:28:030:28:06

Also, "I cannot hear you."

0:28:060:28:08

If he's not properly dressed. "I cannot hear you".

0:28:080:28:10

You can shout as loud as you like, if he's not properly dressed,

0:28:100:28:13

-"I can't see you."

-LAUGHTER

0:28:130:28:16

"Can't hear you."

0:28:160:28:18

All of that.

0:28:180:28:20

So until they wear the right clothes they cannot be seen or heard by the judge.

0:28:200:28:23

Weird situation if you didn't know what item of clothing you had on

0:28:230:28:26

-that was offending him.

-Yes.

-And you'd be going, "Is it the bow tie, is it...?"

0:28:260:28:30

And then the second you took it off, he went "Hello!"

0:28:300:28:33

LAUGHTER

0:28:330:28:36

-There you are!

-They're you are!

0:28:360:28:38

Anyway, now, what happened when the biggest miser in the land forgot his reading glasses?

0:28:380:28:43

He made an error in which he gave away his fortune,

0:28:430:28:46

or something happened...?

0:28:460:28:48

No. Because he had forgotten his glasses,

0:28:480:28:50

he wasn't able to sign a document, because he couldn't see.

0:28:500:28:53

So he said, "I'll take the document and I'll sign it at home."

0:28:530:28:55

What might that document have been?

0:28:550:28:57

-His will maybe?

-His will, yes.

0:28:570:29:00

So, there he is, he's got his will, he said,

0:29:000:29:02

"Oh, I'll take it home and sign it at home."

0:29:020:29:05

-He got home...

-Died.

-Yes.

0:29:050:29:07

CHUCKLING

0:29:070:29:09

Now, that case...

0:29:090:29:10

HE LAUGHS

0:29:100:29:12

His name... His name was Jennens and he was very, very rich,

0:29:120:29:16

and he had quite a lot of family.

0:29:160:29:18

So there was a case called Jennens v Jennens,

0:29:180:29:20

or as a lawyer would say, Jennens and Jennens.

0:29:200:29:22

And it started in 1798, when he died,

0:29:220:29:26

and it ended in 1915.

0:29:260:29:30

Wow.

0:29:300:29:31

-Wow.

-Why did it end?

0:29:310:29:32

The jury all died.

0:29:320:29:34

-No.

-The Jennens died?

0:29:340:29:36

-No.

-Oh, they found his glasses.

0:29:360:29:38

Because...

0:29:380:29:39

LAUGHTER

0:29:390:29:41

APPLAUSE

0:29:410:29:45

It died for the same reason that the fictional version of this case,

0:29:480:29:52

that Charles Dickens made famous in his novel Bleak House,

0:29:520:29:55

Jarndyce versus Jarndyce,

0:29:550:29:57

which he based exactly on this story, for the same reason.

0:29:570:30:00

The estate ran out of money.

0:30:000:30:02

The lawyers had used up every penny of the estate.

0:30:020:30:05

Wow.

0:30:050:30:06

That... Doesn't that tell you everything you need to know,

0:30:060:30:08

and Bleak House, of course,

0:30:080:30:10

which is one of Dickens' absolute masterpieces,

0:30:100:30:12

has this court case running through it, Jarndyce versus Jarndyce.

0:30:120:30:16

And it's been going for dozens of years in Chancery.

0:30:160:30:18

But he wrote that in 1852.

0:30:180:30:21

And this Jennens case had been going on for 54 years.

0:30:210:30:25

And Dickens was little to know

0:30:250:30:26

that it was to carry on going till the First World War!

0:30:260:30:30

I mean staggering, isn't it?

0:30:300:30:31

And all because the man forgot to sign his will,

0:30:310:30:33

these people were so desperate, so rapacious.

0:30:330:30:36

They didn't forget that he'd died.

0:30:360:30:38

LAUGHTER

0:30:380:30:41

-Here there are.

-There they are.

0:30:410:30:43

Must be very good glasses if they're going to help you read that book.

0:30:430:30:47

Have you done your wills? Have you had that chat?

0:30:470:30:50

It's actually depressing.

0:30:500:30:52

We had a lady come round to the house and sat down with her.

0:30:520:30:55

And because she's so used to talking about death,

0:30:550:30:57

she's sort of, like, not bothered about it.

0:30:570:31:00

-Nonchalant.

-Yeah, I'd say so. And she sat there and she said,

0:31:000:31:03

"Right, so if you die, where do you want your money and house and all that to go to?"

0:31:030:31:06

I said, "Well, the wife and kids and that." She said, "And if you and your wife both die?"

0:31:060:31:10

I said, "Er..."

0:31:100:31:11

-RHYS:

-Steady on!

0:31:110:31:13

"Well, just, the kids, and then maybe kids go with my brother and that."

0:31:130:31:17

-And then she said, "And if you and the kids."

-The whole family are wiped out.

0:31:170:31:20

I said, "I'd like to spend some money on some sort of inquest, to be honest."

0:31:200:31:24

LAUGHTER

0:31:240:31:26

See what the hell went on, wiped a family of five off the planet.

0:31:260:31:30

Mine was a bit more circumspect. They kept finding different words for die.

0:31:300:31:35

"And if you both...go."

0:31:350:31:37

-LAUGHTER

-Perish.

-Depart.

0:31:370:31:40

If you're both gathered to the bosom of Abraham.

0:31:400:31:43

-LAUGHTER

-well, I suppose as their job, isn't it?

0:31:430:31:47

I think I've made a will, I can't remember.

0:31:470:31:49

-You can have my collection of Wagner records.

-Oh, thanks. That's very kind.

0:31:490:31:52

-Make him sign it now.

-LAUGHTER

0:31:520:31:55

You'll be very keen for me not to sign it, I suspect.

0:31:550:31:59

No, he was considered the richest commoner in the land,

0:31:590:32:01

i.e. the richest non-aristocrat, and he lived in Grosvenor Square

0:32:010:32:04

in a very sumptuous and beautiful house, except he lived

0:32:040:32:07

in two tiny little rooms in the cellar, and kept the sumptuous rooms

0:32:070:32:10

because he charged visitors to be shown round them.

0:32:100:32:13

That's how much of a miser he was.

0:32:130:32:15

If only three ghosts would have visited him.

0:32:150:32:18

That would have sorted it out. "Give me the biggest turkey in the window!"

0:32:180:32:21

Exactly right, exactly. Tiny Tim last of all.

0:32:210:32:24

Anyway, where would you find a precocious toddler,

0:32:240:32:28

a fertile octogenarian and a moron in a hurry?

0:32:280:32:31

Is that on...?

0:32:310:32:32

GUILLOTINE

0:32:320:32:34

-Buckingham Palace.

-Oh!

0:32:340:32:36

Yeah, like the Celebrity Big Brother.

0:32:360:32:38

Is that, are they calling Lee Evans a moron there? That seems very tough.

0:32:380:32:41

No, he's the precocious toddler in that.

0:32:410:32:43

Oh, I see, fair enough, fair enough. Phew.

0:32:430:32:46

Again, this is in law. A moron in a hurry?

0:32:460:32:48

-Well, we've all been that.

-Yes, we have. These are sort of fictional types of people.

0:32:480:32:54

-That they use in law language.

-That they use in law.

0:32:540:32:57

The most famous one is the man on the Clapham...?

0:32:570:33:00

Omnibus.

0:33:000:33:01

-Omnibus...

-That's to do with advertising.

0:33:010:33:04

-..i.e. what we would call the man... No, it's just the man in the street.

-Oh, I see.

0:33:040:33:07

English common law is based on the idea of the reasonable man.

0:33:070:33:10

What would a reasonable person think? You know.

0:33:100:33:12

The man on the Clapham omnibus is not stupid,

0:33:120:33:14

but he's not a professor of astrophysics.

0:33:140:33:17

He's not a moron in a hurry,

0:33:170:33:18

he's just an ordinary sensible citizen,

0:33:180:33:21

and that is used as a standard by judges.

0:33:210:33:24

And a moron in a hurry is used as a standard

0:33:240:33:27

for another kind of problem in law that might come up.

0:33:270:33:30

It's in the area of passing off. Do you know what I mean by passing off?

0:33:300:33:33

-Like logos or something?

-Yeah. So, expand.

0:33:330:33:36

Almost like false advertising, or maybe plagiarism.

0:33:360:33:40

-That's more like it. As it were, product plagiarism.

-Yes.

0:33:400:33:43

Suppose I brought out something called Boca Bola,

0:33:430:33:45

and it was in a can exactly like,

0:33:450:33:47

with the same lettering and the same patterning, that would be against the law.

0:33:470:33:51

So would the moron in a hurry...

0:33:510:33:52

A moron in a hurry probably, would he notice that?

0:33:520:33:55

If it was green not red, he would notice. Even a moron in a hurry would notice,

0:33:550:34:00

that would not count as passing off.

0:34:000:34:02

But if it was very similar and he thought, "Oh, I'm buying a can of Coke."

0:34:020:34:06

That's passing off, you know, because you don't have to look very hard,

0:34:060:34:09

you can just quickly see it seems to be the same thing.

0:34:090:34:12

So that's just used as a sort of type.

0:34:120:34:14

You've got to be careful there,

0:34:140:34:16

because you've also got people who are not very observant.

0:34:160:34:19

-Well, there is that, of course.

-You know, I mean that's, that's me.

0:34:190:34:22

Are you not an observant person?

0:34:220:34:23

Sometimes, well, yes,

0:34:230:34:24

when I was in the army there was an observation trail we had to do,

0:34:240:34:27

and you had to walk through the bush and they put all these things,

0:34:270:34:30

and you had to go through and have a look,

0:34:300:34:32

and then, when you came out the other end of the bush,

0:34:320:34:34

the sergeant would ask you, "What sort of things did you see?"

0:34:340:34:37

And I told him I saw three things,

0:34:370:34:40

including the cone which marked the exit. So...

0:34:400:34:43

LAUGHTER

0:34:430:34:45

..it was really just two things I saw,

0:34:450:34:47

and there were 17 things in the bush.

0:34:470:34:50

And one of those was a tank. So...

0:34:500:34:53

LAUGHTER

0:34:530:34:56

But, you know, my excuse was a lot of it was camouflaged.

0:34:560:35:00

Yeah. That's good.

0:35:000:35:03

-But I'm not a moron in a hurry.

-No.

-Because I took a long time.

0:35:030:35:06

You were a simple moron.

0:35:060:35:08

-Three times the length of time.

-A casual moron. Yeah.

-Yeah.

0:35:080:35:11

So you'd be a fertile octogenarian then, in that.

0:35:110:35:15

Yes. And the fertile octogenarian is a fictitious character

0:35:150:35:18

that presumes that anyone, even an octogenarian, can parent a child.

0:35:180:35:21

-So they're these kind of archetypes and...

-What's the kid, why is she in a mood?

-Precocious toddler.

0:35:210:35:26

-It's like a fertile octogenarian at the other end of the scale.

-Oh, OK.

0:35:260:35:30

To be fair, she's not a toddler, she's a bit older than that.

0:35:300:35:33

She is, she looks jolly cross, doesn't she? Jolly cross.

0:35:330:35:36

Anyway, not in the realm of fiction, and certainly not legal,

0:35:360:35:39

can you explain this?

0:35:390:35:41

Two people claim to have had sex on the moon.

0:35:410:35:45

Who are they, how did they do it?

0:35:450:35:48

-Well, they are clearly under the moon.

-LAUGHTER

0:35:480:35:53

Yes, they are rather, aren't they?

0:35:530:35:55

It's not Armstrong and Aldrin.

0:35:550:35:57

JASON: Well, we hope not. It's not the astronauts.

0:35:570:36:00

BRIAN: It's no-one that's actually been there.

0:36:000:36:02

Not on the moon itself, but are there any bits of the moon on earth?

0:36:020:36:06

-Moon rock. Yeah, moon rock.

-Yes.

0:36:060:36:07

In the spring of 2002, an intern at NASA at the Johnson Space Center in Houston,

0:36:070:36:12

three interns, stole the whole safe full of rock samples there.

0:36:120:36:17

The ringleader, Thad Roberts, and his accomplice with the wonderful name of Tiffany Fowler,

0:36:170:36:23

apparently spread the rocks on a bed

0:36:230:36:27

and did it on the rocks.

0:36:270:36:29

-That doesn't sound... It's horrible.

-They got their rocks off on the rock.

0:36:290:36:34

It does sound uncomfortable, but it's certainly unique.

0:36:340:36:36

I don't suppose any other couple on earth can claim

0:36:360:36:39

to have shagged on the moon, or at least on bits of the moon.

0:36:390:36:41

-I think I own a bit of the moon.

-You own a bit of the moon?

0:36:410:36:44

Yeah, someone got it me once for my birthday.

0:36:440:36:46

Oh, it's like having a star named after you.

0:36:460:36:48

-I don't know how legitimate it is. I'm just waiting for Branson to sort it out.

-Yes.

0:36:480:36:52

-Then I'll go up there and have a little look.

-You'll probably know more about this than I do,

0:36:520:36:55

but Virgin Atlantic is not the only company that's seeking

0:36:550:36:59

to offer at least a journey out of the atmosphere,

0:36:590:37:02

but it'll be quite a short time out of the atmosphere, won't it?

0:37:020:37:05

Yeah, you're up there for a few minutes.

0:37:050:37:07

It'll cost a lot, but would you consider doing it?

0:37:070:37:11

-I would, undoubtedly, yeah.

-It's more of a thrill ride, isn't it?

0:37:110:37:14

About two and a half minutes and then you come down.

0:37:140:37:17

-Like the vomit comet, which is where you plunge down.

-I did that.

0:37:170:37:20

Oh, yes, you did, on your show, so you did. Yes, absolutely.

0:37:200:37:24

And that's remarkable.

0:37:240:37:25

I have to say, I watched it and I admired you, you did very well.

0:37:250:37:29

-But I was really admiring the cameraman.

-Spinning around.

0:37:290:37:33

Yes, managing to keep you in shot, which can't have been easy.

0:37:330:37:35

But there will be bits of the moon other than the bits that were brought back

0:37:350:37:39

on the surface of the earth.

0:37:390:37:40

There's quite a lot of moon and Mars, because you get meteorites...

0:37:400:37:44

-Of course!

-..that enter the earth's atmosphere, and it may be apocryphal,

0:37:440:37:48

-but there's a story of a piece of Mars hitting a dog in Egypt and killed the dog.

-Really?

0:37:480:37:54

-Yeah. What are the chances? The unlucky dog.

-Poor dog!

0:37:540:37:57

But it's one of the Martian meteorites, one of the famous Martian meteorites.

0:37:570:38:00

-Presumably it ended his life, coming in at quite a speed.

-Yes.

0:38:000:38:03

-Did it go, "bonk", "arf!"?

-LAUGHTER

0:38:030:38:07

-Would have been good if he'd caught it.

-LAUGTER

0:38:070:38:09

There's also story of a woman whose leg was broken by a meteorite.

0:38:090:38:12

She was in bed and one came through her roof and broke her leg.

0:38:120:38:16

Brian, is the moon the same all the way through, or is the surface different from the rest?

0:38:160:38:21

It's not got an iron core, because it's thought to have been blasted off the edge of the Earth

0:38:210:38:27

by a collision early on in the formation of the solar system.

0:38:270:38:31

Did they go down very far, the Apollo astronauts, when they were collecting samples?

0:38:310:38:34

-No, they just scooped it off the surface.

-Into a sack and off they went.

-Yeah.

0:38:340:38:39

That's some of the evidence that tells you that the moon was

0:38:390:38:42

blasted off the earth at some point in the past,

0:38:420:38:44

because the composition of the rock is very similar.

0:38:440:38:46

Anyway, I should point out that the story that Thad Roberts tells of shagging on the moon,

0:38:460:38:51

not everybody believes him, some people think he's just a big, old show off,

0:38:510:38:54

and it's not true, but he certainly claims it, so who knows.

0:38:540:38:58

And finally, why would I encourage a psychopath to eyeball my crotch?

0:38:580:39:03

LAUGHTER

0:39:030:39:05

Look at that picture. I mean...

0:39:050:39:09

Wow.

0:39:090:39:10

-This is one of those that I don't think we want to know the real answer.

-No.

0:39:100:39:13

It's not a nice idea.

0:39:130:39:15

Would it release the tension?

0:39:150:39:16

Well, I'm afraid we're back in the weird world of the 1960s

0:39:160:39:20

and we're in the world of theoretical psychiatry.

0:39:200:39:25

And it won't surprise you to learn that it was in California,

0:39:250:39:28

there was a psychologist called Paul Bindrim,

0:39:280:39:31

who pioneered nude psychotherapy,

0:39:310:39:34

in 1967, at a nudist resort.

0:39:340:39:37

And he devised discomforting exercises,

0:39:370:39:39

one of which was called "crotch eyeballing",

0:39:390:39:42

in which participants were instructed

0:39:420:39:44

to look at each other's genitals...

0:39:440:39:46

Oh, God!

0:39:460:39:47

..and disclose the sexual experiences they felt most guilty about,

0:39:470:39:51

while lying naked in a circle with their legs in the air.

0:39:510:39:55

LAUGHTER

0:39:550:39:56

I'm afraid there was a doctor

0:39:560:39:58

at Oak Ridge Hospital for the Criminally Insane,

0:39:580:40:00

a Canadian psychiatrist, called Elliot Barker,

0:40:000:40:03

who did a marathon nude psychotherapy session for criminal psychopaths.

0:40:030:40:07

These raw naked LSD-fuelled sessions lasted 11 days.

0:40:070:40:12

Wow.

0:40:120:40:14

11 days you'd give a psychopath LSD, take their clothes off and...

0:40:140:40:20

But you see, I believe in evidence-based medicine,

0:40:200:40:22

so if that can be shown to work, it should be available on the NHS.

0:40:220:40:26

Well, I agree.

0:40:260:40:27

LAUGHTER

0:40:270:40:28

It's not... It doesn't matter how ridiculous it is.

0:40:280:40:30

You're right, you're so right. I too am an empiricist like you.

0:40:300:40:33

You will be pleased to know that the average rate of recidivism

0:40:330:40:37

amongst psychopaths is 60%.

0:40:370:40:40

Amongst those who did that programme, it was 80%.

0:40:400:40:43

LAUGHTER

0:40:430:40:44

There we are. Therefore, it's a strong case.

0:40:440:40:46

So, we think it's a bad idea.

0:40:460:40:48

Recidivism is when you do it, the crime, again.

0:40:480:40:50

Oh, I see, I see. Yes, yes.

0:40:500:40:52

But why don't we try it?

0:40:520:40:53

LAUGHTER

0:40:530:40:54

Let's get up. Let's all get up and show each other our genitals.

0:40:540:40:58

LAUGHTER

0:40:580:40:59

Alan, come on, come on. Come on.

0:40:590:41:02

APPLAUSE

0:41:020:41:03

There's a lot of people getting cameras out, that's a bit...

0:41:060:41:09

LAUGHTER

0:41:090:41:10

Social networking.

0:41:100:41:11

He's got a very long telephoto lens as well, it's insulting.

0:41:110:41:14

You won't see mine from there, you'll have to come nearer.

0:41:140:41:17

LAUGHTER

0:41:170:41:19

APPLAUSE

0:41:190:41:21

Maybe the audience could take their clothes off as well.

0:41:230:41:26

Would you feel good about that?

0:41:260:41:28

Yeah, I'd feel more comfortable.

0:41:280:41:29

All right, OK. I hope the BBC lets us show this moment.

0:41:290:41:32

-So, one, two, three.

-Trousers off!

0:41:320:41:34

BEEPING

0:41:340:41:35

Oh, dear! We, uh...seem to have a technical problem.

0:41:350:41:39

We're working to fix that as soon as we can.

0:41:390:41:41

Uh... Good, it's fixed now, so let's get straight back to QI.

0:41:410:41:45

Hopefully, we haven't missed anything quite interesting.

0:41:450:41:48

Oh, that was very good, that worked well. Very, very good.

0:41:480:41:51

APPLAUSE

0:41:510:41:53

-That was interesting.

-Yeah.

-Very interesting.

0:41:530:41:56

And I can see why they call you Brian Cox now.

0:42:010:42:03

Yes!

0:42:030:42:05

Absolutely.

0:42:050:42:06

-And a blue one is so weird.

-Yeah, I know, all right.

0:42:060:42:09

Anyway, we've learnt a lot about each other and about the audience.

0:42:090:42:12

Thank you for participating as well, audience. How very kind.

0:42:120:42:15

APPLAUSE

0:42:150:42:17

It was very interesting, it was very revealing, and talking of revealing,

0:42:170:42:21

there is something after all to be said for crotch-eyeballing,

0:42:210:42:24

but there's a lot more to be said for score eyeballing.

0:42:240:42:28

And my goodness me, do we have some scores for you today.

0:42:280:42:32

It's hard to believe that a man of such intellect should be in last place,

0:42:320:42:35

but I'm sorry to say, on minus seven, it's Brian Cox.

0:42:350:42:38

Oh, God!

0:42:380:42:39

APPLAUSE

0:42:390:42:43

And on minus two, Janus... Janus?!

0:42:430:42:47

LAUGHTER

0:42:470:42:48

Jason, Jason Manford.

0:42:480:42:50

APPLAUSE

0:42:500:42:53

Oh, dear.

0:42:530:42:55

In second place, with a magnificent plus score of three, is Rhys Darby.

0:42:550:42:59

-Oh, well done, mate.

-Thank you.

-Good work.

0:42:590:43:01

APPLAUSE

0:43:010:43:02

Thank you.

0:43:020:43:04

And, can we believe it, ladies and gentlemen,

0:43:040:43:06

with a towering five inches, I mean, sorry...

0:43:060:43:08

LAUGHTER

0:43:080:43:10

..a towering five points, Alan Davies.

0:43:100:43:12

APPLAUSE

0:43:120:43:14

It only remains for me to thank Rhys, Jason, Brian and Alan

0:43:230:43:26

and may God have mercy on your souls. Good night.

0:43:260:43:30

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

0:43:300:43:32

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