Windows Don't Get Done Get Dom

I'm Dominic Littlewood and I'm here to champion your consumer rights.

In fact, taking companies to task has become my goal in life.

Obviously, I'm not expecting you to comment on these,

I'm going to get them over to you this afternoon.

Any problem, no matter how big or small,

I'll help you get the service you deserve.

I was getting really frustrated

and annoyed that I had been paying monthly instalments

for them to repair my boiler and they weren't doing it.

It might involve getting your money back.

So it was like, I'm paying £120 for their mistake

of sending me out the wrong item.

Or taking on your contract conundrums.

I think airlines would make themselves much easier to understand

if they explained things in plain English to people.

Whatever the issue, I'm here to help.

Today, when the offer of a new outlook leaves you feeling

less than happy.

We wouldn't have been able to use the tilt function

on our new windows, and therefore we would have

been paying for an item and not being able to use them properly.

The mystery of the disappearing money.

They basically couldn't find any records of the account,

said therefore they must have been closed

and didn't really want anything more to do with it.

And we give you the lowdown on how to deal with the dreaded debt collectors.

You don't have to let them in your house.

They can't come into your house, they can't take any goods.

I'm tackling your consumer issues to make sure that you don't get done.

New doors, windows, extensions...

Us UK consumers spend £27 billion a year on home improvements,

and trust me, there is a minefield of choices out there.

So when someone knocks on your door

and offers to spruce up your home for you,

how do you know what they're offering is actually right for you?

Charlotte Winter had home improvements on her mind

when she bought her perfect home in the seaside town of Bognor Regis.

The things that we liked about the house were the original features

that were left there, including the sash-style windows.

The nice features, and the fact there wasn't really anything

that we had to do to the place, other than replace

the original sash windows, because obviously they were timber,

and not very insulating.

She and partner Michael were open to ideas

when a salesman from window and double glazing firm Safestyle UK

happened to pass by their house.

Michael and myself were out the front of the house,

sort of trimming the hedge and what have you,

and whilst we were out there a chap arrived at the gate

and started asking questions and saying,

"Ooh, would you like some new windows?" etc.

We sort of said, "Well, eventually, yes,

"but not now. We will be looking into it."

And then continued to talk us round

into agreeing to have someone come round and just give us a quote.

When the sales rep arrived the next day,

the couple were very particular about what they wanted.

We'd like sash replacements.

we don't want imitation looking ones.

If we're going to do it, we're going to do it properly.

Within keeping of the style of the property,

because that's one of the features that we liked.

But they had one key requirement.

That they'd be able to keep their plantation-style shutters with the new windows.

When the rep came round the first time,

he verbally agreed with us that, "Right, OK,"

an acknowledgement that that was what we wanted.

And this was reiterated to Safestyle a few weeks later.

They sent out a surveyor to measure up

and he was again told by Michael, my partner,

that these shutters, we wanted them to go back up

once the new windows were put in, so he again was verbally told about it.

Nobody seemed to say that there would be a problem.

Happy that she'd get new bay windows

and get to keep the plantation shutters, Charlotte signed up

to the £4,600 contract, but it wasn't long

before things started to go wrong.

The two fitters arrived.

The first thing they said when they opened the door was, "We have a problem."

Between the two of them, they couldn't even lift it off the van,

so that was day one.

And yeah, alarm bells started.

And problems with the installations wasn't the only set back.

Michael phoned me at work and said,

"We have a problem with the windows and the shutters."

A feature of the sash windows was not only that they move

up and down but they tilted, allowing for ease of cleaning,

but the couple's shutters were too big to fit

and allow the windows to tilt.

Right from day one,

that was one of the features that we liked about the house.

To have these new windows put up and then not be able to have them,

was just gutting.

Absolutely.

After it was made apparent that the shutter frame wouldn't fit,

the fitter then suggested that he took part of it with him

to see if there was anybody he knew or he could adapt them

so that they could fit to the new window frame

before completing the job.

That was the last we heard from him.

Not only that, but they also had lots of snagging issues.

The job wasn't finished, there was no architrave, no windowsills in,

there was foam filler and holes.

There was brickwork missing at the front of the house.

You could actually put your hand through the brickwork

and up through and touch the windowsill on the inside.

It wasn't until a couple of months later

that we actually managed to get out a remedial works team

to come and actually finish the job off.

Eight months on and the couple still want the windows inspected,

as there's a slight draft, they creak when opened,

and what's more, there's still no shutters as they are waiting

to see if they can be adjusted to fit around her new windows.

I contacted Dom because I didn't feel that we were getting anywhere.

The Office of Fair Trading states there are around

15,000 customer complaints per year about new windows and double glazing

supplied and fitted by companies the length and breadth of the UK.

As a company, Safestyle UK is the largest retailer

and manufacturer of uPVC windows and doors for the homeowner

replacement market, and even floats on the London stock market.

It's been trading for 20 years and has ten installation depots

across England and Wales, and install windows and doors

worth over £100 million on domestic properties each year.

Well, I'm now dealing with one of those customers

so I've sent them an e-mail outlining Charlotte's concerns

and asking them what they're going to do about it.

Charlotte was promised her shutters could be installed

after her windows were replaced, so I want to know what happened

and also what they're doing about her outstanding snagging issues.

Hopefully we'll hear something soon, as I've also sent them

details of another disgruntled customer,

and it's looking like I've some investigation to do.

With almost nine million Britons classed as being in serious financial trouble,

it's no surprise the number of debt collection agencies has risen,

with almost £60 billion of unpaid consumer debt

being passed on to them every year.

I'm lucky enough never to have had a knock on the door

and found a debt collector on the other side of it

chasing up unpaid bills, but sadly that's not the case for all of you.

Whether it's disputing a bill or being unable to pay up,

I hear from lots of you telling me about the demands for money

landing on your doorstep.

And even worse, the threat of the debt collectors or bailiffs.

But how many of you would know what to do if debt collectors

or bailiffs turn up at your door?

If you've not paid your bills, they're coming in.

If you're already in the property, a bailiff cannot then

force their way into your property, but if you are not home,

then they can make their way in.

Many of you believe that bailiffs have the right of entry

but can they seize property?

A bailiff enforces court orders, so a right of possession, repossession.

He therefore has the right to repossess a car...

I've never had dealings with a bailiff,

but I believe they're supposed to leave the bed, aren't they?

It's important to know what to do if you do get an unwelcome visit.

The Citizens Advice Bureau help members of the public every day

who are facing debt worries,

and they certainly know what your rights are.

If a debt collector comes round, they have no rights whatsoever.

I mean, you don't have to let them in your house,

they can't come into your house, they can't take any goods.

A bailiff is different in that they're usually operating

under a warrant from the court, so if they are allowed access

to your property, they can possibly levy on goods

that you own and possibly take the goods.

Well, Vince contacted me about his council tax arrears

and a visit he had from a bailiff.

He arranged a repayment plan and paid it off,

but then he got a knock on the door from another bailiff,

this time because he owed money for bailiff fees!

And sadly, that's something you've got to take into account.

Bailiffs, their fees are laid down by legislation in the majority of cases,

and it will tell you what stage they can add what fees.

But legislation recently changed and those fees have gone up.

With the new proposed legislation,

they'll be able to charge £75 for receiving the warrant

and a further £235 for the first visit,

so that will be £310.

That's an expensive added extra if you've got yourself into debt.

But there are also regulations which have just come into force

in April 2014, and these include a ban on bailiffs

entering homes at night, when only children are present

and from using physical force against debtors.

They will also have to give seven days' notice before taking

possessions, unless they have specific permission from a court

and will be prevented from taking essentials such as washing machines.

That's good to bear in mind but it doesn't help

if you don't think you owe them money.

I've had several e-mails from people who are adamant

they don't owe what they've being chased for.

If you don't believe you owe the money, then the first thing to do

would be to contact the creditor and explain why you don't owe the money.

If you can then resolve that, again,

you have organisations you can take complaints to.

For example, the Financial Ombudsman Service will deal with complaints.

None of us want to get into debt, but times are tough

and there are options if you cannot afford to repay the money.

If you owe the money but can't afford the repayments,

we would always advise you to contact the creditor in the first instance

to see if you can come up with a repayment plan

which the creditor would accept.

If you're having problems with that,

we'd advise you to go to an advice agency and seek help.

And they can hopefully negotiate for you a repayment plan you can afford.

And if your debts spiral

and you really cannot pay your creditors,

there are still some measures you can take.

If a person is in so much debt that they can't control it

and they want to take a formal option, there are four of them.

There's an administration order,

where you owe less than £5,000

and one of your debts is a County Court Judgement.

There's a debt relief order, where your debts are below £15,000

and you don't have assets valued over £300,

or spare income of over £50 a month.

There's an individual voluntary arrangement.

This is where you've got available income of, say, £200,

£300 a month and you want to protect an asset.

And then there's bankruptcy.

Although there are options out there for you,

the best thing would be to ensure you don't get into

financial trouble in the first place.

Before you borrow money, draw up a financial statement,

a budget sheet, check you can afford to repay the money.

So there you have it.

Know what you owe, and take this advice, so you don't get done.

I've been looking into a complaint

from Charlotte and Michael Winter about their new windows.

They're unhappy with the finish of the windows and,

contrary to their promises,

Safestyle has been unable to refit her plantation shutters.

Before my involvement, they had sent her a cheque for £1,500

to replace the shutters, but she has not been able to do that yet

and is still waiting for another company to see if her shutters

can be adjusted to fit around her windows.

There is no way, really, that we could have adapted the framework

to fit, because the dimensions were completely different.

You know, shutters are made-to-measure.

Well, the Winters aren't the only unhappy customers

because I've been contacted by Paul, who complained to Safestyle

after his father-in-law Eric signed up to new windows.

Eric needed this window changing because the seals

around the window had gone, and there was condensation in there.

And the draught-proofing on there was virtually nonexistent

and rotting away, so it was literally hanging on by a thread.

Eric has lived in the house for 35 years with his wife, Wendy.

He's already had new patio doors installed

ten years previously by Safestyle,

so had no concerns about inviting a sales rep in when he called round.

I said, yes,

I could do with a bathroom window.

He said, "I'll send somebody round to see you, then."

But when the surveyor arrived the next day,

he pointed out to Eric he thought his current bay windows

were cold and draughty, and that there was a chance

they could be easily removed in a break-in.

When Paul found out, he wasn't convinced

these extra windows were actually necessary.

Yes, they are old. Yes, they may be a little inefficient.

But they are double glazing, they're not single.

They do a job, they keep the weather out, and they keep the draughts out.

They're not leaking, the seals haven't gone on them,

it's perfectly serviceable.

We don't disagree that the one window that we asked for

in the first place - in the bathroom -

needed doing, because it was leaking.

But by this time, Eric had gone ahead

and agreed to the order for £4,800-worth of replacement windows

for the bay, the bathroom and the landing.

However, Paul felt his father-in-law should have got more quotes

before agreeing to such a sizeable order.

I did do a bit of research with local companies

as to what pricing would be on the windows. I managed to

get a quote, from a local dealer, of £270 to fit the bathroom window.

You're probably looking, er, six windows -

1,500, 2,000, 2,200, tops, for all the windows.

But again, the front bay wasn't required,

it's just the one window we wanted.

It was a week since Eric had signed an agreement,

so Paul told him to cancel

and thought it would be a simple conversation.

He was sorely mistaken.

They did say that he was out of the seven-day cooling-off period.

The phone call went on to say that...

the windows are being fitted,

they will be done, and the price is...

And they gave him another price.

Eric agreed to go ahead at the discounted price of £2,400

So at this stage, Paul took matters into his own hands

and took up the case against Safestyle. But eight months on,

and while the company has agreed not to fit the windows,

they are still chasing Eric for the cost of them.

I hope Dom can get to a point where it's null and void.

We don't want the windows, we don't want to deal with Safestyle,

we just want it to all go away.

Even to the point that it's just "End of."

I've put both cases to Safestyle's Rick Short and he's told me -

as far as Charlotte is concerned,

they've already sent her a cheque

to cover for a replacement for new shutters,

and they're going to send round an engineer

to have a look at her windows next week.

So I'll give them a call back then.

And as far as Eric is concerned, Rick Short tells me

that his original presentation was on February 5th,

and that's when he entered into a contract.

He tells me Eric didn't cancel until February 12th, day eight,

and they'd already started to manufacture the windows,

therefore, he has to pay.

But I said, hang on a second,

that visit was late on a Sunday evening,

so Eric wouldn't have been able to cancel a contract

until the following day anyhow.

So surely that's when his cancellation period should have started?

Now, of course, that's my opinion.

Let's see what the law of the land says.

The thing about both cases is, neither Eric nor Charlotte

went into a shop to buy their windows

and both were approached on their own doorstep by sales reps,

and when that happens, you are covered by very specific rights.

Today, I've come to meet lawyer Kevin Porter.

Kevin, are door-to-door salespeople regulated?

There is protections provided.

They are called the Consumer Protection Cancellation of Contracts

Concluded Away From Business Premises Regulations, 1987.

And all that really means is that

you're protected from misrepresentations

and misleading information,

and basically being told things which aren't true.

And the regulations cover specific time frames for cancellations.

Usually, if there is an agreement being signed, there is

this cooling-off period. Typically, in seven days.

And that's usually the time that you need to think about things

and to assess, and to check you've got the funds in the bank.

And make sure you cancel the agreement in writing, presumably?

That's right. E-mails, letters, even faxes,

if you want to, get something in writing.

And keep a copy of it yourself. That's the other tip.

'OK, time to get down to the facts.

'Like when that cooling-off period starts.'

-The seven days starts...

-I was just going to ask you that, right.

The seven days starts on the day that you sign that agreement.

-Regardless of what time?

-Regardless of what time.

So it's seven days inclusive of that date.

In Eric's case, he signed at 8pm one evening.

He tried to cancel the equivalent of a week the next day.

-Right.

-He's actually gone over?

-Yes.

In terms of the statutory protections,

then it's over the time.

Unless there was something separate in the contracts.

Surely it needs to be implemented

from the morning of the next day, so it's seven clear days?

Yes, and there is a lot of confusion about that.

So make sure you are aware, read the small print.

Again, it seems like common sense,

-but do read what you're signing up to.

-Great advice, Kevin.

I'll be honest, as you're a solicitor,

I'm going to go before you start invoicing me for your time!

-That sounds good to me. Thank you.

-Thanks a lot.

So it seems as though day one of Eric's cancellation period

did start on the day he signed, even though it was late at night.

That's a good piece of information for us all.

But despite that, I think Safestyle is wrong to refuse his rejection

and I'll be putting that to them

when I get a chance to speak to them. In the meantime,

I've heard from Charlotte.

She's told me Safestyle has been out to see her

and the windows are not creaking any more.

Ding-dong! However, the shutters are still a problem.

So if I move this...

..and we open the window like this, it tilts open like this.

And the top one does the same,

and this is meant to be for ease of cleaning, and what have you.

But because of the frame size that's required for the shutters,

we wouldn't have been able to do that.

Charlotte has been told that her original shutters

cannot be adjusted to fit around Safestyle's windows,

and so she's going to have to get custom-made ones to fit.

She has spoken to another company who can offer her new shutters

for around £2,000. But before she agrees to that,

she wants to get an independent expert

to ensure her windows are sound.

-Hello.

-Hello, Mrs Winter. Jonathan Burley. Surveyor.

-Hello, come in.

Today, Jonathan Burley,

an independent structural engineer, is taking a look.

I want to know that the windows

are fitted safely and securely,

and that we're not going to incur any other problems.

Jonathan undertakes a thorough inspection of Safestyle's work.

It looks like this angle on the bay here

has been dislodged by the window movement.

-You can see that because underneath the tile, it's dropped...

-Right.

-..by about half an inch.

-Yes.

Now, have you had any problems with draughts, or water ingress

through the windows at all since they've been fitted?

Not water, but we did with draughts up until about two weeks ago.

Hopefully, that problem was fixed.

The sill is welded, which all looks good.

That just about sums up the ground floor windows.

After a quick look round upstairs, Jonathan has his verdict.

Overall, the windows are fit for purpose, in my view.

There are one or two finishing details which need to be

addressed by the company before you make final payment.

-OK. That's brilliant. I mean, that was our main concern.

-Yes.

And if there are just those little points to go over

and nothing else, then that's what we wanted to know.

-Thank you.

-Yes.

It's good news for Charlotte. Her windows are up to scratch.

So now, it's just the issue of new shutters

that I need to broach with Safestyle.

But there's a few things I want to check out first.

If Charlotte and Eric had done some research

into this multibillion pound industry,

shopped around and asked some questions,

could they have avoided all this stress?

What should consumers be doing

to ensure what they're getting is right for them?

The Glass and Glazing Federation is a trade association

which vets its members within the industry,

and customer complaint is one area it deals with.

We'd be looking at

maybe 100 complaints in the year.

It is a very low number compared to the number of installations a year,

which shows that the vast majority of installations do go correctly.

And the federation runs a conciliation and arbitration process

should a customer have an ongoing complaint

against one of its members.

But if, as consumers, we do our homework before we buy,

perhaps we can avoid getting into a situation

like Eric and Paul did,

where they ended up ordering more than they had originally planned.

When Eric started the ball rolling,

in his wildest imagination did he not think that he was going to end up

being sold a bay window and another window on top of this.

I would suggest you follow the GGF recommendation

of getting several quotations.

You can compare their products, and then buy with confidence.

That's always good advice

whenever you're shopping for home improvements,

and getting a separate survey is another good idea.

Within the glass and glazing industry,

there's several stages of the sales and installation process.

Part of those are, you could have a sales visit,

then you'd have a technical survey.

Often the technical survey will be doing the accurate measurement,

checking for structural... of the building

to ensure that it's safe to put those windows in.

If the consumer were to say, "I don't want the windows,"

you'd then just be paying for that extra survey

to show what is required.

And if you have a special requirement,

such as Charlotte and her shutters,

it's important you make them known to the sales rep

to avoid disappointment.

We lift this up...to here.

And you can quite clearly see that

this is the difference in the size at the sides,

and so that comes right across the window here,

so we wouldn't be able to tilt it and, you know, open it.

If a consumer wants some specific feature or specific service,

you should make sure that is within the contract.

If that isn't the case for any other the work,

it doesn't necessarily have to be honoured.

Well, I've looked all over Charlotte's contract,

and there's no mention of the shutters.

But I know from Safestyle's e-mail to me,

they have acknowledged that the shutters were discussed.

So I think it's time to see if we can make a move

towards resolving these complaints.

Safestyle. Right.

Now, I've not actually managed to speak to them yet on the phone,

but there has been a little bit of backward and forward with e-mails.

So I'm quite looking forward to this first call,

just to get an idea of what they're like,

and the person we've been e-mailing is Richard.

So, let's see what he's like as a customer services manager.

Hello, Richard. Yes, thanks. Thanks for taking the call.

I know you were engaged just a second ago.

Richard, I just wanted to speak to you about a couple of cases

which we brought to your attention.

I know you're aware of them at the moment...

'Richard starts off by reiterating that as far as they are concerned,

'Eric cancelled outside of his cooling-off period.'

Are you telling me that you've served Eric

with notification of his rights to cancel that evening,

when he signed a contract?

'That's right, yes.'

Richard confirms that was the case,

but he says he is keen to resolve matters for Eric.

Time to discuss Charlotte's shutters.

I don't even... I don't believe you're aware at this point,

at the moment, but they're even saying now

that they had to do more modifications

and they're talking about having to replace all the blinds,

which is going to be £2,500.

Something about the post not being strong enough, I think,

to take the weight of the blinds.

Richard says he'll look into what they can offer Charlotte.

Richard, thanks ever so much for your time.

I appreciate you taking the call.

-'That's no problem. Thank you very much.'

-And you. Bye-bye, then.

-'Speak to you again. Cheers.'

-Bye-bye.

It's clear from talking to Richard that he is keen to resolve

both cases, and he'll be making a full offer in writing soon.

Right from a young age, we're being told,

put some savings away for a rainy day,

and it's pretty good advice. But I've heard from some of you

whose little nest egg has disappeared without a trace.

Such as Dan Laffoley,

who's been battling to trace his lost inheritance.

My grandmother died when I was very young.

I was only eight years old, and my brother was ten,

and we lived in Jersey, and she lived in Lincolnshire,

so we only saw her from time to time.

But it wasn't until recently that Dan discovered

his grandmother had left him and his brother a legacy.

So it must have been in the autumn of 2011

that a solicitor's contacted me on e-mail, saying,

"Do you have any connection to Jersey?"

And I was quite clearly suspicious about this,

and we to'd and fro'd for a while

until we had the conversation about what they wanted to talk to me about.

And that was about some money that had been set aside

in an account four decades ago.

When my grandmother had died, back in 1972, as part of the will,

she'd left £100 to me and my brother

in these Bradford & Bingley passbooks.

And it was quite emotional, because it wasn't just about the money.

It was £100, but in modern day money, that's probably 1,000 or so.

So this is the kind of last connection in a way between myself

and my grandmother, and the wish that she had for my brother as well.

Sadly, this news was even more poignant for Dan,

as his brother had died a few years before.

Dan's grandmother had set up the two accounts

and left the paperwork in the care of her solicitors.

The passbooks had been in the vaults since probably the summer of 1972.

Clearly, hadn't been touched,

and I think it was only when they were clearing through old records

in their vault that they came across them,

and were probably quite horrified that there were still

two open bank books in their vaults, which is when they contacted us.

And it wasn't long before Dan had the passbooks

and decided to access the money.

The passbooks were with Bradford & Bingley,

one of the several building societies which was taken over

by Santander in September 2008.

So once I had the passbooks in my hand, I thought, "Well,

"let's go into Santander. This must be fairly straightforward."

After discussions in the branch, they said, no,

they had a special team who could almost certainly help,

and they then put me in touch with them.

So, easy. Or so it seemed at first.

Once we were in discussions with Santander,

we then started corresponding with them,

and it became rapidly clear

that they didn't really know anything about these accounts.

They said they couldn't find any record.

Confused, Dan started a complaints process with the bank,

but he didn't get very far.

They basically couldn't find any records of the account,

said therefore they must have been closed.

There is no evidence that these accounts were closed.

They've been in the vaults of a solicitor,

and when we actually received the books,

they have no closure lines on them. They're still open.

Santander told Dan they have to hold records for six years,

and with no records of him, his grandmother, or the account,

the case was closed. But Dan wasn't happy.

It's not for me to prove I've had the money,

it's for Santander to prove what they've done with the accounts,

and they couldn't. So if they can't do that,

then it's their responsibility.

Well, that's Dan's opinion.

But who is the onus really on to prove an account has been closed?

Whereas in normal circumstances, the onus would be

on a consumer to prove the issue,

to prove what they are saying,

when we're dealing with banks, large financial institutions,

I think it's reasonable for a consumer to say to the bank,

"What is the proof? What's happened here?

"What is the paperwork? What does it show?"

We're all aware of issues with banks

and mis-selling of financial products,

and I would think it's reasonable in this day and age

for a consumer to expect that the bank has comprehensive details

of bank accounts, when they were closed, on what date, et cetera.

I agree, Brian, but perhaps it's not that simple

when it comes to a case such as Dan's,

which dates back decades before digital data existed.

However, Dan Laffoley still asked for proof

his account had been closed, and with none forthcoming,

he was advised to take his complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

So when the Ombudsman Service is looking at complaints

about dormant accounts, one of the things we need to do is

think about what the law says about what people need to do,

and we look at things like what the regulator has said

and if there are any specific rules.

And there aren't any specific rules from the regulator

about how long these records should be kept.

Typically, people tend to keep them for around six years.

Often that will be enough.

And if there aren't records that are available,

what we do look at is just the evidence that is available

and work it out from there.

But Dan had his passbooks, which state,

"must be relinquished when closing the account".

Surely that's evidence enough?

The fact that somebody's got the passbook

of itself won't necessarily mean that

that meant that the money was still there.

So we do see a regular number of complaints about this issue,

but actually, in the grand scheme of things,

they're not huge numbers of complaints.

So when we see them, we look at them individually and reach a conclusion.

If we did identify anything systemic then

we would let the regulator know about that.

The FOS did look into Dan's case but concluded that as Santander

had no knowledge of the account, it must have been closed.

But Dan still thinks otherwise.

I believe that our money is probably sitting somewhere, forgotten.

The pass books have been kept all their life by solicitors

until the point that we received them.

For me, it is about more than the money.

The money is important, in a way.

But it is about the sentiment, it is

about the fact that my grandmother didn't have a lot of money.

And so this meant an awful lot to her, both in terms

of the meaning of what she was doing but in terms of the money involved.

And it is also because, since she left myself

and my brother the money, my brother has unfortunately passed away.

So there is a kind of double emotion with this,

and, you know, the right thing should be done here.

In the course of talking to Santander about Mr Laffoley's

complaint, they have told us that

the case was investigated by both Santander and the financial

ombudsman, who both concluded that the account was closed before 2008.

They have told us the most likely explanation is that

the account was closed by lawyers as part of the probate case in 1972.

And that as this would have been done by letter,

the pass books were unlikely to have been stamped during the process.

We contacted the solicitors dealing with Dan's case and asked them

to respond to this.

They told us...

Santander told us...

Are we finished? Cos I want my 10p back. Oh, that's handy!

I have been getting a clearer view of two customers' complaints.

Both entered into contracts with double glazing

and window firm, Safestyle.

Eric tried to cancel after son-in-law Paul felt

he didn't need what he'd ordered, but he's being charged

the full amount as he was told he missed his cooling off period.

PAUL: 'I got through to him to say that you need to stop this now.

'Yes, you probably do need some windows

'but you can get it done for less than half of that.'

Eric then phoned up the next day and the saga then ensued after that.

And eight months after her windows were fitted, Charlotte is

finally happy after Safestyle rectified some outstanding issues.

But she was promised her plantation shutters could remain

and it turns out they are not compatible with her new windows.

Both the salesman and the surveyor that came out to measure up

for the new windows were both told that the shutters were

hopefully going to be reinstated.

There have been some interesting elements to these cases,

including just how transparent the law on doorstep selling

and the cooling off period is, or isn't.

And in the meantime, Rick from Safestyle has been in contact.

He's making an offer to Charlotte.

Dom took over communications with Safestyle for us,

and since then he has managed to get some more money for us

towards shutters, which is great.

Now we can get them organised and fitted.

It feels great that Dom has been able to sort this all out

and get this over and done with and out of our minds.

We can actually start enjoying our new home now.

Safestyle has upped its offer from £1,500 - £1,800

to go towards new shutters.

They also told us, with regards to specific requests...

They go on to say...

And they've been in touch with Eric and Paul too.

I have heard Safestyle's side of the story so now I have come to

Cannock to hear it from the horse's mouth, Eric and Paul themselves.

-Morning, Paul.

-Thanks for coming.

-My pleasure.

-Come on in.

Right, okey-dokey. So, right, how long have you lived here, Eric?

-35 years.

-Crikey. So, you obviously love the area, then?

-I do indeed, yes.

-This is your home for life, isn't it?

-My home for life, yes.

-'I want to hear Eric's side of the story.'

What was the reason they were saying to you

they weren't allowing you to cancel and they were going to fit them?

Basically, it was out of the seven day cancellation period.

But again, Eric signed, on the fifth, a blank page on a survey form.

The survey form is just yonder, you can have a look at that.

And then they did the survey on the sixth

and he tried to cancel on the 12th.

I argued the point that, 12 minus 5 is 7.

If he was signing a blank page,

and then the survey was done on the sixth, then he knows what

he is actually purchasing, that brings it back into seven days.

So I was toing and froing with their sales manager about the legalities

but he stood his ground and said, "No, it is eight days.

"He has signed it. Tough."

'It looks like Paul has been having the same arguments I have.'

Technically, what he is saying there is right.

They actually class it, day one, as being the day you sign.

So, in theory, what he is saying is right.

At this point, you are at loggerheads,

they have £380 of your money in cash.

You're saying, "Stick your windows, I don't want them."

And they are saying, "No, you're going to have them."

-It is a stand-off.

-Yes. I did feel helpless.

I thought, "We can't go anywhere.

"We are absolutely stuck, we're going to end up either paying

the manufacturer costs or having them done," which I didn't want doing.

I got on the phone to them.

I have got to say, they were civil,

which I do like when a company is civil.

And I think they are quite

professional in the way they do address the situation.

They obviously quoted me the fact it now technically was eight days.

They said the goods had been made,

I didn't really go into too much detail

about that because all I wanted

to do was to get you a refund with as least inconvenience as possible.

Anyhow, since then they have obviously contacted you

and you can pick the story up from there. What has happened now?

Safestyle developed this letter and have given us a cheque for £380.

-Right, so you now have got a full refund.

-Yes.

-You are allowed out the contract.

-Yes.

-You have washed your hands of them.

-Yes.

-And these windows which you never felt you needed.

-Yes.

-OK. How do you feel?

-I feel great about it.

-Do you?

-Yeah.

-It's a big weight.

-I didn't know at first

that you had got my money back!

So when you got that letter,

-you opened the envelope up and saw that cheque, big relief?

-Big relief.

Massive relief.

I was at work in Worcester and I was doing a survey on a house

and lo and behold my phone went. Mr Excited here...

All I said was, "I've had a cheque for £380 off Safestyle."

-And Paul says, "Great." And I said, "It is."

-It was a victory.

-And you're still smiling now, you're happy.

-I am happy about it. I am.

'As well as refunding the cost of the survey,

'as a gesture of goodwill,

'Safestyle has wiped clean the outstanding debt

'for the cost of the windows.

'We contacted Safestyle UK and they said...'

Safestyle refute any allegation that Mr Parbrook signed a blank page,

stating...

They also tell us, they have...

I would like to thank Dom for his help in getting me

out of the contract, yes, and not having to pay for the windows.

I would like to thank him very much.

The irony here, of course,

is the fact that Eric did actually start off wanting a window.

What he didn't want was three windows.

Safestyle have actually done the right thing in giving him

a refund and letting him out of his contract.

So Eric's worries are over.

Now I've got my money back,

and I don't have to pay for the windows, I am over the moon!

I am very pleased.