Episode 1 Children Talking

Is there a heaven?

Yes, I think so.

And, erm, I think it must be just the right climate

with, erm, lots of tall trees.

And I don't think it's the same colour. It would be very nice there.

And I don't think the people are solid,

I think they are kind of transparent and they live in lots of, erm...

..er, colourful houses with no servants,

just because they're self dependent.

I think that there's no such place as heaven or hell because,

erm, if there was, why...? Why don't we see souls, as they say,

rising up to heaven or hell?

Because if you're good, people say you go to heaven.

If you're bad, you go to hell.

But I don't think if you can...

Well, I agree with her because if they say God is all around us,

with all of these satellites and rockets going up above in the air,

they would have to go through them, or something like that.

So, I don't really believe there is a heaven or a hell.

My favourite Bible story is Noah's Ark.

Can you tell me about it?

-Yes.

-Yes.

What happened?

They built, um, a big boat.

Noah built a big boat where the animals go...

And when all the animals got in, it started to pour with rain...

-And the...

-And it poured and poured for 40 days and 40 nights.

And...

What about Adam and Eve, and Noah's Ark, and walking on the water,

Jesus walking on the water?

I think that science still proves that wrong.

Which one?

Well, Adam and Eve because it says that the world started,

I think, this is,

and that something broke off a planet or something,

and it cooled and there was an atmosphere formed around it

and dust formed on the outside of it,

and then life began out of little tiny things that can't be seen.

And there was no Adam and Eve?

No, I just think that was a kind of...

fiction story, that was made up.

But why did Noah build the ark in the first place?

-So he can get...

-Because he...

Because he didn't want all the animals to get flooded away.

Well, how many animals did he put on?

Oh, I don't know.

But I know he sent them in by twos.

By twos?

-Yes.

-I don't know how many animals he put on.

Why did he send the animals in by twos?

So... Because the plank was only big enough for two.

And the doorway.

Do you know what God is like?

Yes, a bit.

Well, he has a white cloak round him

and his shoes have two straps

and his toes are sticking out.

He has a beard and two hands

and no face and two legs.

He has no face? Why has he no face?

Because he's a spirit.

-And they bumped into a rock.

-Yes.

And then he sent one of the birds out to see... To see, um...

And it came back with a leaf.

It didn't bring a leaf back.

-No, the first bird did bring a leaf back.

-It didn't!

It didn't. Didn't.

Who's right?

-I am.

-No, I am.

-It didn't.

-He sends... He sent three birds out.

-No, two.

The first one didn't get anything back.

The first one didn't bring anything back.

I know, I've heard this story more times than you.

I've heard it about...

20 times at Sunday School.

Do you two ever sing hymns?

BOTH: Yes.

Who do you sing them to?

BOTH: God.

Have you got a favourite one?

BOTH: Yes.

What is it?

-Robin In The Rain.

-That's a song!

Oh, Gentle Jesus.

Which one?

BOTH: Gentle Jesus.

Do you think you can sing it for us now?

BOTH: Yes.

Go on, then.

# Gentle Jesus, meek and mild

# Look upon a little child

# Pity my simplicity

# Suffer me to come to thee. #

Do you think God would like that one?

BOTH: Yes.

The way you sing it?

BOTH: Yes.

Day at work starts with getting up in the morning, and you think,

"Oh, day of work ahead of me."

And you go in the car.

When you get in the doors,

you might meet somebody you know and have a chat.

And slip your overall on and, er...

You go in the office and have a smoke and a...

Then, er, sign in so you have to put your cigarette out

and start work and...

Legs on. And about half past, 10 to 11, you, erm...

You, have a drink of tea and a sandwich and a quick smoke

and then you start work again.

Should women, perhaps if they are mothers or not,

should they go to work?

-Yes.

-No.

-They should.

-They shouldn't.

Don't be so silly. Of course they should.

Why should they?

Because they got to earn a living, haven't they?

Yes, but they've got to look after the babies

and do the housework, and the tea, and the dinner.

Well, they could go to a nursery.

Yes, but sometimes little babies don't like going to the nurseries.

I know they cry, but they've got to get used to it and you know that.

Why do you think women should go to work?

Because it isn't fair on the men, keep on going to work

and bending his back and keep on getting up to these jobs.

And he had to do all the work instead of the lady.

She ought to go and all, and help him out.

Don't you think she does enough work at home?

Well, the children...

If she's got some children about my age, she could tell them to do it.

How much do you think it matters that you're happy in your job,

as opposed to earning a lot of money?

Well, if you're not happy, you don't take so much interest in it.

And...

You just, say if you're a postman, put the letters in the wrong doors.

What sort of people are unhappy in their work?

People that have to screw tops on to the tubes of toothpaste

all day long.

What's wrong with that?

They get... All their arms ache and their hands ache

and they get blisters on their fingers.

What would you do if you got a job like that?

I'd get another one.

Would you ever go on strike?

No, because if you go on strike then it means you don't like your job.

And it's better to leave your job

and carry on with something that you think you like.

But if you like your job, then you don't...

It doesn't matter about money.

Can you tell me what a trade union is?

Is it some sort of protection racket that they used to have?

Erm, it's not much needed now, I don't think.

What are strikes all about, do you think?

Well, it's usually men...

Well, and sometimes women.

..that want to get paid more than they have got.

And what they have got already is usually sufficient.

They only want more.

Why do you say that?

Well, I don't really know. It's just that...

Well, I think they shouldn't have strikes

because it's rather like when you eat food, you always want more.

It's being greedy.

Who wins with these strikes, do you think?

Most times, the management.

Why do they?

Well, because they've got power.

Because they pay the money, they want the money, so they come back.

Eventually.

Has your dad ever been on strike?

Yes.

What was it like?

Er...

He played card games with me.

All day?

Not all day. He played for about ten minutes.

Did he seem worried when he was on strike?

Yes.

What about?

Because he likes getting on with his job.

If your husband went on strike,

how would you manage to run a house and family?

I'd cut down on the pocket money.

I'd cut down on the food.

I'd just buy some beans and bread and they could have beans on toast.

What do you think happens to people who don't do any work?

Well, they would get weak because they don't do any exercise

and they won't have any food to eat if they don't go to work.

What do you think about their state of mind, though?

What does it do to anybody who doesn't go to work?

Hmm.

Well, they won't have salt,

and they can only live a little while without salt.

-Salt?

-Salt.

-Yes.

What difference does it make, though, to how much salt you've got?

Because if you don't have salt, your brain will go all mad or something!

Well, a rich man has usually got a top hat

and very smart clothes with silver around it.

Or gold. Glitter stuff.

Or it might have buttons covered with gold or silver paper, or something.

And a rich lady?

She will probably have a dress like an evening dress,

but not as long, with gold buttons or silver buttons, like the man.

And... It might have a very pretty cord hanging down from it

and a very pretty necklace to go with it, or something like that.

Do they look nice, rich people?

Yes.

But they aren't really very nice, some of them, because they say,

"No, certainly not, I'm not going to pay as much as that,"

when it's something a great deal of money,

because they want to still have a lot of money.

They want to keep their money?

Yes.

Are rich people nice people?

Not very.

Why not?

Well, because they are too rich and sometimes they get a bit bossy.

What about poor people?

They're all right, sometimes.

But they do steal things sometimes from other people

when they're not looking.

What about you? Do you have a lot of money?

No... Well, I don't expect so.

But Mummy says we are middle classed.

What does that mean?

Well, I don't know. But we're just middle-classed.

Would you like to be very rich?

No. But I'd just like to have enough money to keep going.

You have to work to be rich,

and it takes about 15 years to be a millionaire,

if you want to work really hard.

But if you work only for a teeny bit, you only get a bit of money.

You never know how much money you get in a year or so.

How much pocket money do you get?

2s 3d.

-2s 3d?

-Yes.

Why 2s 3d?

Well, we say that every time you have a birthday,

you get thruppence more.

That was Daddy's idea.

Is it always 2s 3d for you, does it never vary?

No, not unless I get fined.

-Not unless...?

-I get fined.

What does that mean?

Well, if you put your feet on the couch or something

with your shoes on, then Daddy fines you

something like thruppence or sixpence.

Well, if somebody left me some money, I wouldn't take it,

-I don't think, because I'd like to work for all the money I get.

-Why?

Because I don't think it's fair unless I do.

How do you mean?

Well, I don't think it's fair that if I get less money

and I could be quite well off anyway,

that...when it really should go to poor people

who don't get left money like that

and who work just as hard as I do, perhaps harder, and they're poor.

-What kind of people are you thinking about?

-Miners and things like that.

What's your view about miners?

Well, I think that... I think their job is dangerous

and they don't get paid very well

and I don't think it's fair...

anything, when you think of all the rich people

sometimes just sit in an office and answer the telephone

and read books and things like that, when some people are down in pits

and they don't get half as much money, or a quarter as much.

What about when you grow up and you want to make some money?

What will you do?

Be a diver or go to America and look for some stuff under the sea there

because there's supposed to be a lot under the sea there.

What sort of stuff?

Treasures and stuff, very old chests and stuff, things like that.

And would this be a good way to make a lot of money?

Um...

Yes. It will be quite a good way.

Get some nice, you know, quite a lot of money...

for it.

And everything you get when you dive,

it's all yours, is it, all the treasure?

No, half of it is the Queen's, but some of it is mine.

What about you? Where do you go for your holidays?

We go to Venice and Cannes.

What are these places like?

We have spaghetti, tagliatelle

and, er...raviolini.

What do you think about Italian food?

It's quite nice, I think.

Which are your favourite restaurants?

Oh, the Chinese restaurant because when we go in through the door,

the people bow to us and say, "A-so! A-so!" all the time.

And then we sit down and they take our coats

and we eat and eat and eat.

When you grow up and you have a home of your own,

what kind of furniture would you put in it?

-Georgian.

-Why?

Because I don't like the modern. It's...

..a funny shape and very small, usually.

Well, how does a girl go about getting the money

to buy the things that you'd like to have?

Well, you can either marry some rich person

and see whether they'll give you some money

or else you have to see whether you can get a good job,

but it's not very easy to do that

because a lot of people get there before you.

-To get the jobs?

-Yes.

What about marrying for money, is this easy or not?

It's not very easy because you can't just come up to someone

and ask them whether they'll marry you.

You have to find out whether they have a lot of money

and, like, what you're going to get.

What do you think it would be like to have a great deal of money?

I wouldn't like it, but I think that if I did have a lot of money,

I'd make a school for the rich people and the poor people to join together

because I think that when the poor people are separate

from the rich people, they don't feel as though

they're in with it and they feel worse than they already are.

Do you think people should have a second chance

if they've done something wrong?

Well, sometimes they deserve it, yes.

When do they deserve another chance?

When they haven't quite killed a person,

just harmed them very badly.

Or something like that.

But when they've really killed a person,

I think they should go for a lifetime.

What's the worst thing you've ever done?

Um...

..nipped out of my bedroom when I wasn't supposed to

and went playing football and got myself as mucky as anything.

Did you get found out?

No, I had a wash.

I nipped in through my bedroom window,

went to the bathroom and had a wash.

Mummy smacked me with a jam spoon.

With a jam spoon?

What do you have to do to be smacked with a jam spoon?

Well, sometimes I hit my brother and sister

and sometimes I hit Sooty and Skippy.

And what do you think when you're smacked with a jam spoon?

I think I'll never do it again.

Do you do it again?

Do you think it does any good to send a man to prison?

Um, yes, but I think they have an easy time.

They've got nice beds and nice pillows, they have...

They've got lots of freedom.

How bad should it be?

Well, it's according to what they've done.

Like those train robbers, they should be killed.

And assassins and all that.

But like here...

In America, it's better there, they hang them, electrocute them.

In here though, we just give them 25 years at the most.

And then they go free again,

and if they're still alive by then, they go out killing again.

What's it like in prison, do you think?

Well, there's only one bed there.

And there's little windows with bars down them

and then there's a sort of cage all around.

Yeah.

What's the cage like?

Well, it's big, thick bars, like this,

put down the side and then about one or two across.

And a door so that people can give them their food.

What sort of food do they get?

Usually bread and milk, or milk and water or something like that.

What's the best way to punish grown-ups for doing things wrong,

-do you think?

-Well, a killer should be done the same to them

as they've done to others.

And then these army criminals, maniacs and all that

should be sent to Vietnam to fight there.

Then, if they get killed, it's their own fault.

-What about prison?

-Well, they're too sort of happy.

They've got the television, food,

it's almost in there better than what we've got here now.

What do you think should happen to people who have committed crimes?

Well, I think that they shouldn't go to prison

the first time they commit it,

but they should be put on television in front of all the people

to look at them, and someone who's got a lot of nerve

to really tell them off and make them feel ashamed of themselves.

Who should do this, do you think?

David Coleman, Cliff Michelmore, someone like that.

What sort of a person do you reckon you are?

Well, I haven't really got a temper,

but what really makes me mad is the English view about Ireland.

They all think it's little white-washed cottages

with thatched roofs and they have wee half doors with pigs looking in

and things like that over the top half of the door.

And I think it's a wrong view.

Um, I think I'm short tempered

because at times I could be pretty calm and good-tempered,

but my brother, for instance, he'd be... I'd be watching a programme

and be very interested in it, so he's...

No, mad over the sport and he would want to change over, you know,

switch over to another channel to see sport

and that would really get me angry because I used to be like...

You know a volcano where it just comes slowly up,

the lava comes up, and then bursts like that.

People call me Ginger Bob,

but I don't think my hair really is ginger, I think it's red.

And when they call me names,

I don't really let them know that I'm going to go for them

and they say... I get a kind of sick in the stomach and my blood boils up

and I clench my fists and I look at them in the eyes like this.

And then I run after them

and they usually run away,

but sometimes I get them and I punch them.

And I don't like the name Ginger Bob.

What does guilt feel like?

Well, it feels as if you're sort of sweating

and you're burning up inside like a fire.

And you're sort of roasting,

and then if you tell someone about it, it just cools down again,

it's like falling into the bathtub after coming out of a fire.

But if you tell somebody, you can get rid of this?

Yes, you can get rid of it, it helps a good deal.

Most things, like jealousy, hate, you know,

things like that, it helps a lot to tell someone.

In what way then does it help?

Well, it's like a donkey and a cart.

If the cart is full up with...

If the donkey could talk and he told a farmer

that he had far too much coal in the back of the truck,

or on the back of the cart,

then the man took a whole lot of... took say half the coal off,

that would be like taking off just something the same thing as that.

That would take the load off?

That would take practically most of the load off the donkey,

then the donkey would feel better again.

Then he knew he wasn't being hit, it was just a mistake

and the man would be off.

And if you have something that you're guilty about in your mind,

-do you tell somebody else?

-Yes. It helps a lot.

Sometimes I do not really like getting a new pair of shoes,

a new pair of socks. As long... If he gets a new pair of shoes

and I get a new pair of shoes, it clashes... It doesn't feel anything.

But if one of us gets it and I don't, well, I feel muck,

all muck, mad, really mad.

I'm ready to box him.

If you know what I mean.

Go in and stick a dagger in him.

You know, that kind of feeling.

That feeling that you can break his neck.

And where is this feeling inside?

Sometimes it comes from inside here, when you get him in a minute,

you are going to go...

-You are all dressed up for a wedding.

-Yes.

-Yes.

-What are you all?

I'm dressed as a bridesmaid.

-Have you ever really been a bridesmaid?

-Yes.

What was that like? What happened?

Well, in church, I had to wait for a bit with my mummy

and I had a basket full of flowers and I had a hat on.

-You have artificial flowers, do you, Claire?

-Well, any kind, really.

I will really have artificials.

What about you? Have you ever been to a wedding as a page or an attendant?

Well, I was invited to be a page,

-but I wasn't very happy with the idea.

-Why not?

Well, because when we went to the practice in the church,

the clothes, well, they were sissy-like, like a girl,

like hipsters today.

There were made out of silk, red silk.

There was a white shirt.

And a red dickie bow, I don't like the idea of that.

I just said that I'd look a sissy with those clothes on.

-And, you know, they just gave me a look...

-What kind of a look?

You know, as if to say, well, you're all right, but not spot-on.

Does this mean, then, that you haven't been to a wedding?

Oh, yes, I went to the same wedding

and I was sat on the back row.

I'd rather be on the back row than the front with the pages.

Well, when people want to get married,

they can either get married in a church or a register office.

What's a register office?

Well, it's somewhere where you can go

and get married without letting people know, and it's quicker.

Cos you don't have to have confetti all over you and, um...

it's quicker, really.

But why should someone want to be married quickly

without anyone else knowing?

Well, sometimes they want to get away home

and they want to get married, you know, quietly.

And without being disturbed.

What age will you get married at, do you think?

-18.

-Why?

Well, my brother and sister are always bossing me about

and having fights and we're always left out.

I like going to weddings, you get lots of food and you have chicken...

I got chicken, cabbage, apple sauce, cabbage

and we had jelly and tarts for fruits.

We had jelly and tarts and trifle and apple pie, cream tart and, er...

meat pie, liver and steak and kidney pie and meat pie.

-All at a wedding?

-Yeah.

-What was the best part about it?

-The reception, especially the cake.

There were some with thruppenny bits in, and I got two.

And I also got a lucky horseshoe.

What happened after the wedding?

What did you do then?

I went out and I went in a pub to have a drink of orange.

You what?

I went to the pub to have a drink of orange

and I went up to have my tea with Mummy.

And I keep asking to go to the toilet.

What are you dressed as?

-A broad maid.

-A what?

A broad maid.

A broad maid. What's that?

Have you ever been a bridesmaid yourself?

Would you like to be?

Why?

-Why would you like to be one?

-I'm going to marry you.

-What?

-Marry you.

-To marry me?