Episode 2 My Worst Deal


Episode 2

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Transcript


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We all like to think we're getting a fair deal for our money,

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whether buying, selling or taking out a loan,

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and when times are hard it matters even more.

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But many of the deals on offer could cause you real problems.

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Some could even wreck your life.

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On today's programme.

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The ex-soldier whose deal with his bank left him over £100,000 in debt.

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-You got a pound coin on you?

-No.

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-50p?

-No.

-So you haven't got a penny on you?

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The woman who took on her bank and won.

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I've got a new nickname. It's Bankslayer!

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We head out with the UK's Illegal Money Lending team

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as they crack down on the worst deal in Britain, loan-sharking.

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And the victim who did a deal with a loan shark

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and paid the price for 19 years.

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I was laid up ill on the settee once and he started knocking into me.

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My mate come around and tried sticking up for me and he actually beat the living daylights

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out of my mate in front of my kids.

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Alan is 31 years old, homeless and penniless.

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He now stays at his brother's house, all because of

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the worst deal he ever made, with his bank, Northern Rock.

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Alan joined the army when he was 18 and served his country for 10 years.

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He was part of the peace-keeping force in Kosovo

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and also fought in Afghanistan.

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That's what I wanted to do, I wanted to fight for my country.

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That's why you join the Army.

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You sign your oath of allegiance, and that's a proud moment.

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Even though the Army was his childhood dream,

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for the sake of his marriage, Alan decided to leave.

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But it wasn't easy for him in civvy street.

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I struggled because when I decided to come out, the world just

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went into financial meltdown.

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As Alan tried to find a decent job, his marriage fell apart.

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When he became single, he was left with £20,000 worth of debts

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made up of a loan, credit cards and all the basics -

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phone, electricity and gas bills.

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The stress was starting to show.

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Stopped sleeping. It's almost like I'm allergic to sleep. You don't get a good night's sleep.

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You fall asleep a little bit,

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and something will trigger your brain, a bill or a phone call that you've had, or anything.

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And it stops you...

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it stops the way you normally are as a human being.

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The stress just takes over.

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In March 2011, the nightmare he dreaded actually happened.

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Northern Rock repossessed his home.

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When they resold the house at auction,

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all they got for it was £67,000.

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The shortfall against the mortgage was a massive £83,000.

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This was money they expected Alan to pay quickly.

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This was a terrible deal for Alan.

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The veteran's debts were then a whopping £102,000.

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It was almost too much to cope with.

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I carried on, just feeling more depressed and more depressed

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and then I got to the beginning of May and that's when I was - depending on your point of view -

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selfish, silly, foolish and reckless.

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That's when I tried to commit suicide.

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Former policeman Mike Thomas is a registered debt counsellor

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with 17 years experience.

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He runs a website giving free advice to people with money worries.

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He fights for the consumer rights of those who have taken up deals

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they now regret.

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Today, he's responding to an SOS call from Alan.

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It would appear that the debts are getting too big an issue.

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I've got to go in, find out what's going on, get to the bottom of it,

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and see if I can find a way forward.

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Today, Mike Thomas is meeting Alan for the first time.

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To start, Mike works out Alan's budget, and he's quite shocked.

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What do you spend on food?

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-About 30.

-For the month?

-I'm not kidding.

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Look in my cupboards.

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That's my fridge. They're not mine, they're my brother's. Been there since he was last here.

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I'm stunned. I've never seen anything like this.

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I can't believe a bloke at 30 years of age in this country is living on £30 a month and surviving, on food.

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Following such shocking evidence, Mike returns to Alan's budget.

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Alan currently has a job in a parking lot -

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but nearly everything he earns goes to pay off his debts.

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Mike thinks he could negotiate with the creditors to leave him more to live on.

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What if I said to you I could give you £50 a week?

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It would properly, properly change my life. It just would.

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As of this moment, no matter what solution we come to,

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you're going to have £50 a week to spend on food and toiletries.

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And there's no way a creditor or person that you owe money to

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is going to get away with making you live on £30 a month. That's going to stop as of now.

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Unfortunately, Mike's increased food budget has come too late to

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save Alan's best friend, Henry.

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I couldn't afford to feed him, so I had to let him go.

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I had to make a choice, it was horrible.

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He was the last thing that I lost,

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the last thing, he really was - the last thing that... It broke my heart.

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As the meeting continues, Mike learns more and more about Alan's lifestyle.

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If I asked you now to find some cash, how much could you put your hands on in a couple of minutes now?

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Nothing. There's nothing in the house.

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-Nothing. Never any...

-Have you got a £1 coin on you?

-No.

-50p?

-No.

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So you haven't got a penny on you?

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Alan then explains to Mike the action that Northern Rock took.

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-This is the Northern Rock...

-Yes, the outstanding Northern Rock.

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What do you think your house was worth?

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Someone said 112, then the property sold at auction, I think, for 67.

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£67,000?

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Someone's bought themselves an absolute bargain, at your expense.

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-When did they buy that?

-It must have been around four weeks ago.

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And already Northern Rock are writing to you asking for methods of repayment.

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This is ridiculous.

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Alan says Northern Rock offered him no advice or sympathy

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and little time to pay.

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We asked Northern Rock to comment.

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They told us -

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You've got £96 a month left over, give or take,

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and that is to pay nearly £102,000.

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After checking all the facts and figures, Mike has come to

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the conclusion that there is only one sensible thing for Alan

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to do to escape the consequences of his mortgage deal.

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I've been with you now a number of hours

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and I can clearly see what a hell of a time you've been through.

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I see lots of people in my life, but you're in one of my top ten.

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I just cannot believe how you've managed to survive and do things.

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The option for you that is screaming is bankruptcy,

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and it is the only way forward.

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What it will do, it will ring fence all your other creditors,

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it will stop these people from telephoning you, taking court action,

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attachment of earnings.

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You will deal with one authority,

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which is the OR, Official Receivers Office, who are there to support you

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provided you'll be an honest bankrupt, which is what you are.

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You are an honest consumer bankrupt, I don't foresee any problems whatsoever.

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And it's designed, it's legislation to rebuild your life,

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because you're paying taxes, you're paying national insurance,

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you're contributing to society, but you're getting dragged down by this debt that you can't deal with.

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You've had triggers in your life.

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For goodness sake, you've had a separation, you took a pay cut when

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you came out the Army, it made you ill, it made you very unwell, you've

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lost an awful lot of things, it's about time you started to rebuild.

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But we've got a problem, how are you going to get the bankruptcy fees?

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Going bankrupt costs £700 in fees, which Alan simply couldn't afford.

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But Mike believes he can get an Army welfare organisation to meet those costs.

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If he can, bankruptcy could come very quickly.

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What if I said to you that if I can get these fees paid for you,

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you could go bankrupt in the next three, four weeks,

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and put an end to it all.

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That's like a winning lottery ticket.

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As the day ends, Mike leaves Alan to think about what he's been told.

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This means more to me than I could simply put into words.

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Every day it's always on my mind, every day I'm expecting someone to knock on my door.

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Every day I'm expecting phone calls, every day I'm worrying how I'm going to make ends meet.

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Every single day this is always on my mind.

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Later, we'll see if Alan can end his mortgage nightmare.

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But first, with people living on less, unsure of their jobs,

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and their credit ratings pushed to the limit,

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more of us are relying on stores that offer less stringent

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credit checks and pay-weekly terms to buy household essentials.

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But do these deals represent good value?

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We've had a look at the deals from the UK's three most successful

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pay-weekly stores.

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Since the recession, business has been booming.

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These stores allow people to buy items like cookers,

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fridges and sofas, by paying in weekly instalments.

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'At BrightHouse you can pay weekly for the things you need.'

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'You'll want somewhere with

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'the lowest weekly payments on the biggest brands.'

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'There's something for everyone at Buy As You View.'

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Sally doesn't want us to identify her, so it's not her real name.

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She lives with her four children,

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so when she needed a new cooker,

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it was an essential she couldn't do without.

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Unable to work, she thought pay-weekly was the most sensible option,

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and visited her local Perfect Home store.

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I went to Perfect Home to get the cooker

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because they don't do credit checks, you have to give three references.

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But, as simple as it was to buy the cooker,

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the actual cost was a little more confusing.

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She signed an agreement for a cooker which cost £927.99.

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On top of that were three years of interest, totalling £404.25.

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She was also sold maintenance vouchers costing £647.61,

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with interest payable on those over three years of £280.59.

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She was also to pay £3.09 per week for insurance.

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That totalled £482.04.

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And finally, she paid £105 to have the cooker installed.

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So her £900 cooker was going to cost her £2,847.48.

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Sally was to pay £17.58 a week.

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To be quite honest, I went in with my eyes closed, to be fair.

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Although the cooker would cost her over £2,800, because she was

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only paying £17.58 a week, Sally thought it was affordable.

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The same cooker was recently on sale in several leading high street stores

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for under £700.

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Damon Gibbons is the director of the Centre for Responsible Credit

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and he thinks these types of deals are very bad news for people like Sally.

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Our biggest concern about this sector of the credit industry is the cost.

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The fact that they are targeted to people on low incomes and for whom

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many people will have had problems repaying credit in past.

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Once you've added in some of the optional service covers

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and insurances it's a huge amount to pay.

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It really is a problem of the poor paying the most for essential items

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which anybody really needs in their home in today's day and age.

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Damon's been investigating

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whether the deal Sally got was typical or unusual.

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On the same day in the Midlands, he visited BrightHouse and Perfect Home,

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and spoke to a salesman about what deal he could expect on a typical

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home necessity, a fridge freezer, one that was stocked at each store.

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He also checked out the same fridge freezer on Buy As You View -

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who don't operate on the high street, so he went onto their website.

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The mid-range fridge freezer we chose was widely available

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in other stores for around £600.

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So I'm on the Buy As You View website,

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and I've found the fridge freezer.

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It gives the headline price, the cash price of the item,

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and then it gives the weekly rate.

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Doesn't really talk about any additional covers, or insurances which might be required.

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Damon couldn't actually find all the information

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he wanted on their website so we rang them direct to get the details.

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'There's something for everyone at Buy As You View.'

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The Buy As You View deal works out like this -

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the fridge freezer costs £799.99.

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The interest would be £589.87.

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A total of £1,389.96.

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But if the optional maintenance

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and insurance is taken,

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the new total is £1684.80

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Then Damon visited BrightHouse.

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I think BrightHouse were fairly up front with regards to pricing,

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and the way that was composed of the cash price of the goods,

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the optional service cover, and damage liability cover.

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But Damon had a problem finding out

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the full details of the deal in the store.

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We were asking for a copy of the terms and conditions to

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be given to us, and there was a real reluctance to do that.

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We both love our weekly payment store!

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The BrightHouse deal works out like this -

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the fridge freezer costs £724.97.

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The interest would be £318.67.

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A total of £1,043.64.

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But if the optional maintenance

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and insurance is taken,

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the new total is £1,845.48.

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Next up, Perfect Home.

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I think with Perfect Homes it was difficult to get

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the information that most consumers would want from a salesperson.

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There were some missing key bits of financial information on the actual fridge freezer itself.

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So, for example, it didn't tell you about the insurance aspects of it,

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and it was a bit vague when it came to exactly how much money that was going to cost.

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'If you want the perfect home, then come to Perfect Home.'

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The Perfect Home deal works out like this -

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the fridge freezer costs £799.99.

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Total interest would £295.13.

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A total of £1,095.12.

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But if the optional maintenance and insurance is taken,

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the new total is £2,168.40.

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So the worst deal on that fridge freezer,

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that you could buy elsewhere for £600,

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was Perfect Home at £2,168.40,

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if you include optional maintenance and insurance.

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Even beyond the issue of price alone, there's a question mark here

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around the terms and conditions, the transparency

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how these things are sold to people,

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and whether or not they're really in a position to exercise choice.

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We asked the companies to comment.

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Buy As You View told us -

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BrightHouse made this statement -

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Perfect Home did not respond.

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If you've got money troubles, then the type of deal you do with

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your creditors is critical. Get it wrong and you could lose your home.

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Mandy Farmer is on the brink of becoming one of the 100 people

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every day who have their homes repossessed.

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Mandy had worked for many years with no money worries.

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When her father died, she moved in with her mother to

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the old family home.

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I've lived with my mum because once my dad passed away she didn't want

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to be on her own. It's been the family home for 55 years.

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I've lived here,

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I've been brought up here, I've grown up here, all the memories are here.

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Back in 2008, Mandy made what would become a disastrous deal.

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She consolidated her unsecured debts with her mother's,

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and secured them against the family home.

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I was finding it was costing me

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more to pay it all separately than it was to get it all paid

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in the one payment, and it was easier each month to do it that way.

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Mandy had a regular salary, so there were no problems with repayments.

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But in 2009, her mum had devastating news.

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About a year ago, year-and-a-half ago, she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's.

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I had to wash her, I had to clean her, had to feed her. If we went out,

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she had to be put in a wheelchair, I was literally doing everything.

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I then had to give up my full-time job

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because she needed 24-hour care.

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So, with her mum dependent on her at every turn,

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and now with no income, Mandy had no choice but to claim benefits.

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She called the finance company who had given her the loan straight away.

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I explained the situation and that I would only be receiving

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Carer's Allowance until whenever,

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and sort of tried to make an agreement with them

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and sort a form of payment out.

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But the finance company was adamant.

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They wanted the full amount due to be paid every month

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and they wouldn't renegotiate a smaller amount

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while Mandy was in difficulties.

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Once they said to me they needed

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the full amount, I just couldn't afford it.

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Being on Carer's Allowance,

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it was more than what I was getting for Carer's Allowance.

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There wasn't a lot I could do, just panic, basically,

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because I knew I was going to get this debt.

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For the next 12 months, Mandy gave her mum the best care she could,

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until one day she was admitted to hospital.

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I went in to see her, I walked into the ward, and said hello,

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gave her a kiss, turned away, turned back, and that was it, she was gone.

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So within five minutes, if I was five minutes late, she'd have been gone.

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Mandy contacted the finance company to let them know of her mum's death.

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She told them she was no longer entitled to Carer's Allowance.

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In short, she was living on even less money.

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My mum passed away end of April.

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The first letter I got was about the end of May, beginning of June,

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to say they'd be going to court and taking possession of the house.

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Mandy had found herself in the same awful position

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as tens of thousands of other people.

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Due to circumstances beyond her control,

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she was unable to repay a loan that was secured on her home.

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That deal meant she now risked repossession of the property

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that had been in her family for 55 years.

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The house where she grew up.

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I think I just burst out crying.

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That day, as soon as I read the letter, I thought, that's it,

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I've failed, I've lost the house.

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I was sort of still grieving for my mum.

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I just collapsed in tears.

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Later, we'll find out if Mandy can save the family home.

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It's an early morning start in Hull for the Illegal Money Lending Team.

0:21:470:21:52

They target the loan sharks who prey on people with poor credit histories.

0:21:520:21:57

A deal with a loan shark is the worst deal imaginable.

0:21:570:22:01

Today, with local police, they have a warrant to search

0:22:010:22:04

the home of Lee Bates, a man they suspect of illegal money lending.

0:22:040:22:09

The officers knock on the door. There's no answer.

0:22:100:22:14

The team are ready to force entry.

0:22:140:22:16

Then one of the officers spots Lee Bates in an upstairs window.

0:22:170:22:21

Open the door!

0:22:210:22:23

Just as the police prepare to make their way into the property,

0:22:230:22:26

someone answers the door.

0:22:260:22:29

Once inside, the search begins.

0:22:290:22:32

DOG BARKS

0:22:320:22:34

Tony Quigley is the head of the national Illegal Money Lending Team.

0:22:340:22:38

What he wants is evidence of the loan shark's victims -

0:22:380:22:41

perhaps a loan book listing people who have borrowed money,

0:22:410:22:44

computer records, or cash.

0:22:440:22:47

His team deal with the victims of loan sharks on a regular basis

0:22:470:22:53

and some of their stories are harrowing.

0:22:530:22:56

Mike, which is not his real name,

0:22:560:22:59

says borrowing from a loan shark was his worst deal.

0:22:590:23:03

He wants to remain anonymous because he still fears for his safety.

0:23:030:23:07

He paid a loan shark for 19 years and suffered intimidation and violence.

0:23:070:23:12

It all started with a £300 loan to buy a car from

0:23:120:23:16

someone he thought was being helpful - a deal he would live to regret.

0:23:160:23:21

When I couldn't pay him, he increased what I owed him.

0:23:210:23:25

Then he'd increase the payments and it just got right out of control.

0:23:250:23:30

He never once told us what interest he was going to put on, never told us how much we owe him.

0:23:300:23:36

If we ever asked it was just, "Oh, you owe me a lot."

0:23:360:23:40

I was laid up ill on the settee once, and he just started knocking into me.

0:23:400:23:44

Me mate came around and tried sticking up for me, and he beat the living daylights out of my mate,

0:23:440:23:49

in front of my kids.

0:23:490:23:50

And so...

0:23:500:23:53

We just continuously paid, because of the intimidation.

0:23:530:23:56

He was the very first thing that we made sure we paid, week in, week out.

0:23:560:24:00

Weren't bothered about rent, water, food, gas, electric, weren't bothered about none of that,

0:24:000:24:07

as long as he was paid first.

0:24:070:24:09

Because if we didn't pay him, I was liable to get another hiding.

0:24:110:24:16

When he couldn't meet the payments,

0:24:160:24:18

Mike often borrowed more money from the loan shark to pay back

0:24:180:24:21

the original loan, and it had a devastating effect on him and his family.

0:24:210:24:26

It affected me relationship with me wife, at times we split up.

0:24:270:24:32

I ended up with depression, I lost me job because of depression.

0:24:320:24:36

I tried to commit suicide, the police picked me up one day, well, one night.

0:24:380:24:42

I had a rope in the back of the car, was going to hang myself, they stopped me.

0:24:420:24:46

I had a heart attack because of the stress.

0:24:460:24:49

I collapsed at work, because I was so ill and should have taken time off, but daren't because obviously

0:24:490:24:55

I wanted to keep on paying him.

0:24:550:24:57

Mike estimates that across those 19 years,

0:24:570:25:01

he actually borrowed about £2,500.

0:25:010:25:04

But what he paid to the loan shark was an awful lot more.

0:25:040:25:09

In excess of 90,000.

0:25:090:25:11

That is a rough guess.

0:25:130:25:16

The early morning raid by the Illegal Money Lending Team

0:25:160:25:19

on the home of suspected loan shark Lee Bates continues.

0:25:190:25:23

Head of the team, Tony Quigley, is waiting to see

0:25:230:25:27

if his officers have found evidence to warrant an arrest.

0:25:270:25:31

Officers are in the property at the moment, examining paperwork and bits and pieces,

0:25:310:25:35

to see whether or not there's any evidence to be seized,

0:25:350:25:39

and then we'll have a decision on whether or not there's sufficient to effect an arrest.

0:25:390:25:44

The search has taken most of the morning.

0:25:440:25:47

The officers cannot afford to leave anything to chance,

0:25:470:25:51

and work to ensure nothing is missed.

0:25:510:25:54

Search every room, and inspect all the documentation,

0:25:540:26:00

and we believe that we have found some material

0:26:000:26:03

that is worth seizing.

0:26:030:26:05

And there's some cash as well that will be taken.

0:26:050:26:08

Finally, with the search at an end,

0:26:100:26:12

the team believe they have enough evidence for an arrest.

0:26:120:26:15

I am arresting you on suspicion of illegal money lending,

0:26:150:26:18

collecting, also money laundering between October 2010 to present day.

0:26:180:26:24

You do not have to say anything...

0:26:240:26:26

The Illegal Money Lending Team are carrying out raids like this

0:26:310:26:35

continually across the country.

0:26:350:26:37

The next step in this case is to discover who else may be involved

0:26:370:26:41

and who may be a victim.

0:26:410:26:44

One of the key things is that we move as quickly as we can now

0:26:440:26:49

to establish who's involved and what size the operation is.

0:26:490:26:55

And it's quite clear, really, that we need to identify people who may have

0:26:550:27:00

had loans from this particular person.

0:27:000:27:02

Lee Bates was subsequently charged

0:27:040:27:06

and convicted of two counts of illegal money lending.

0:27:060:27:08

He received a two-year community order plus 180 hours of unpaid work.

0:27:080:27:14

Mike, who was a victim of a different loan shark,

0:27:140:27:18

eventually contacted the Illegal Money Lending Team

0:27:180:27:21

after reading about another of their successful operations.

0:27:210:27:24

I see a bit in the newspaper about another loan shark being caught

0:27:240:27:29

and there was a contact e-mail on there, so I contacted the loan shark team.

0:27:290:27:35

The loan shark texted me the following day saying it was pay day.

0:27:350:27:38

I arranged to meet him, and he turned around and said, "If the money's not paid then I'll go after your wife."

0:27:380:27:45

That was the final straw. I then contacted the loan shark team again,

0:27:450:27:49

sat down and spoke with one member of them.

0:27:490:27:51

He was absolutely fantastic, everything he promised and assured me, he delivered.

0:27:510:27:57

Mike's loan shark was prosecuted, pleaded guilty

0:27:570:28:01

and received a prison sentence.

0:28:010:28:03

When I heard he'd been sent down, I mean, I'm a man, I don't admit to nearly crying,

0:28:030:28:08

and I did, I nearly cried.

0:28:080:28:11

Just with relief.

0:28:110:28:13

Mike's case is just one of many that the Illegal Money Lending Team

0:28:140:28:18

deal with all the time.

0:28:180:28:20

The stories, though tragic, are often so similar.

0:28:200:28:24

With most of these illegal lenders, they come across as your best friend.

0:28:240:28:29

It's all about trapping you into that spiral of debt.

0:28:290:28:32

You know, if they were nasty to you from the start, you would stay away from them.

0:28:320:28:37

But they appear to be the knight in shining armour.

0:28:370:28:40

You're in financial difficulties and they come through the door and everything they can help you with.

0:28:400:28:46

That's how they respond, and it is that relationship, you know, we're best buddies.

0:28:460:28:52

Yeah, I'll give you the money, and I'll give you that instant decision.

0:28:520:28:55

But it's when you find you have further difficulties, when you see the real side of them.

0:28:550:29:00

It's made a massive difference. Me and me wife, we get on so well now, we don't argue,

0:29:000:29:06

because there's no money issues.

0:29:060:29:09

Before we wouldn't have dreamt of going to Blackpool, or going to Dorset,

0:29:090:29:12

but in April, we're going to Blackpool.

0:29:120:29:15

In September-time, hopefully, we're going to be going down to Dorset, if I can get time off work.

0:29:150:29:19

It's just so much difference.

0:29:190:29:21

The small market town of Royal Wootton Bassett in Wiltshire

0:29:260:29:30

is the home of an unlikely heroine.

0:29:300:29:33

Josie Lewis's worst deal brought her to the brink of a financial disaster.

0:29:330:29:37

But it wasn't with a back street lender, or an online loan company.

0:29:370:29:42

Instead, she took on her bank, the mighty HSBC.

0:29:420:29:46

It was all about these, her bank charges.

0:29:470:29:50

None of us like them, but for Josie they led to an extraordinary confrontation at the bank.

0:29:500:29:56

I've always been on a low wage so money has been tight.

0:29:560:29:59

Once I start getting into financial difficulties, it is difficult to get out.

0:29:590:30:04

When she did not have enough funds to cover direct debits,

0:30:040:30:08

she incurred bank charges.

0:30:080:30:10

She got into a cycle of missing more payments and getting more charges.

0:30:100:30:15

It reached a point where the bank was taking nearly

0:30:150:30:17

a third of my salary in bank charges,

0:30:170:30:19

which then means there are insufficient funds

0:30:190:30:21

to pay your mortgage, Council Tax and essential bills.

0:30:210:30:25

The deal then got even worse.

0:30:250:30:28

Josie had to have an overdraft of £1,000 to help cover

0:30:280:30:32

some of the outstanding bank charges on her account.

0:30:320:30:36

One day, she was surprised to hear from the bank that they wanted

0:30:360:30:41

all the outstanding charges paid off immediately.

0:30:410:30:44

She simply couldn't afford it. She was unable to pay.

0:30:440:30:47

Far from helping its customer with their finances,

0:30:490:30:52

the bank itself had become the problem.

0:30:520:30:56

I had 2,440 in bank charges. That kept my account in the red by 2,100.

0:30:560:31:03

Worried the bank would use her wages to pay off all the outstanding charges,

0:31:030:31:07

and leave her with nothing,

0:31:070:31:09

Josie felt forced to open a bank account elsewhere.

0:31:090:31:14

She then asked HSBC to put the account on hold.

0:31:140:31:17

I wrote to the bank saying, "You will freeze my account.

0:31:170:31:20

"It is not to be used. There are no standing orders to go out.

0:31:200:31:23

"There are no transactions whatsoever to be going out."

0:31:230:31:27

That didn't work. The bank just ignored it.

0:31:270:31:29

HSBC continued to draw money from the account,

0:31:290:31:33

putting charges on top of charges.

0:31:330:31:35

-Josie was desperate for help.

-I wrote to the ombudsman.

0:31:350:31:40

He found in my favour. It took ages. It took several months, but he found that bank charges were causing

0:31:400:31:45

financial hardship and the bank must deal with these sympathetically.

0:31:450:31:49

As a result of her complaint,

0:31:490:31:51

the bank offered her £440 to help cover two months' worth of bills.

0:31:510:31:56

But that was by no means the end of the matter.

0:31:560:31:59

It seemed to Josie that the bank then became

0:31:590:32:02

more relentless in pursuing the outstanding charges.

0:32:020:32:06

I kept getting hundreds of phone calls,

0:32:060:32:08

some of which were threatening.

0:32:080:32:10

'Saying to me, "Miss Lewis, you owe was money. When are you going to pay us?

0:32:100:32:15

'"These calls won't stop unless you pay us the money."'

0:32:150:32:18

It would be on your mind all the time and I can see how people

0:32:180:32:22

get suicidal when they've got debts and when someone is chasing them for money.

0:32:220:32:27

Josie decided that things had come to a head

0:32:270:32:30

and she needed to speak to the bank manager.

0:32:300:32:32

Mr Hicks said, "OK, we'll go into the interview room

0:32:320:32:35

"and we'll discuss the bank charges."

0:32:350:32:37

When we went into the interview room,

0:32:380:32:40

he made a big point of locking the door.

0:32:400:32:43

He was making it very purposeful, locking the door.

0:32:430:32:47

He was making a point of it. That is what I found scary.

0:32:470:32:50

He sat down and said,

0:32:510:32:53

"We'll go through a financial review for you."

0:32:530:32:56

Then he said, "I'm sorry, Miss Lewis. I can't stop these charges."

0:32:560:33:00

Josie felt that if he could not do anything about the charges,

0:33:000:33:03

the interview was pointless and got up to leave.

0:33:030:33:06

Again, he's across the door like this. "No, no, Miss Lewis, it's all right."

0:33:060:33:11

By this time, I'm asking to be let out.

0:33:110:33:13

The girls have heard all the commotion and they have come through

0:33:130:33:17

from the rear door of the interview room to see what is going on.

0:33:170:33:20

They could see I was scared. They could see I was in tears.

0:33:200:33:23

They could see I was frightened, but I don't think

0:33:230:33:26

they had been trained to deal with a situation like that.

0:33:260:33:29

The next day, Josie lodged a complaint with the bank.

0:33:290:33:32

But the investigation was led by Mr Chris Hicks -

0:33:330:33:37

the very man who had locked her in his office.

0:33:370:33:40

As she battled to sort out her finances,

0:33:400:33:43

with no help from her bank, Josie looked for a way out.

0:33:430:33:47

It was affecting my working life, my concentration, my sleep and all

0:33:470:33:52

my time was being taken up writing to the bank, dealing with the bank.

0:33:520:33:56

I put all my debts with the debt management agency,

0:33:560:34:01

that means that the bank and any creditors cannot harass you for money.

0:34:010:34:05

They have to deal with the debt management agency.

0:34:050:34:08

Whale Josie thought this would be a solution, the bank obviously didn't.

0:34:080:34:12

They continued to harass her.

0:34:120:34:15

The calls continued. I was getting nowhere with the bank.

0:34:150:34:18

I was getting very distressed, having sleepless nights.

0:34:180:34:23

The only option was to take the bank to court.

0:34:230:34:25

But she didn't have enough money to pay a solicitor for the hearing,

0:34:250:34:29

so she represented herself.

0:34:290:34:30

I won my case. I won it on three counts.

0:34:310:34:34

The judge found that the bank had failed in its care and professional

0:34:340:34:38

skill in handling my account.

0:34:380:34:39

She found that the bank was guilty of harassment with phone calls, which were threatening.

0:34:390:34:44

She also found that the bank manager was guilty of false imprisonment

0:34:440:34:47

and that he had caused intimidation and distress during that interview.

0:34:470:34:52

After months of fighting with HSBC, they eventually apologised to Josie.

0:34:520:34:58

The judge ordered that the bank discharge

0:34:580:35:01

over £2,000 worth of charges.

0:35:010:35:03

I'm really pleased and lots of other people have since said to me

0:35:030:35:08

what a brilliant job I had done.

0:35:080:35:12

I had had the strength to see it through.

0:35:120:35:15

I've got a new nickname. It's Bankslayer.

0:35:150:35:18

Mandy Farmer's worst deal was with a finance company that said

0:35:230:35:27

they would consolidate her loans and secure them against her property.

0:35:270:35:32

It's a deal that has left her on the brink of losing her home.

0:35:320:35:35

Mandy was about to get some help.

0:35:350:35:38

She lives in Basingstoke and the local authority

0:35:380:35:42

had been startled by the high number of repossessions in the area.

0:35:420:35:46

The council employed Mark Fisher, an expert debt adviser.

0:35:460:35:50

His mission was simple.

0:35:500:35:51

To stop Basingstoke's properties from falling into the control

0:35:510:35:55

of the banks and finance companies and keep people in their homes

0:35:550:35:58

if at all possible.

0:35:580:36:00

This is about the stability of the community.

0:36:000:36:03

Homeowners and businesses form the backbone of our community.

0:36:030:36:07

What we want to do is keep people where they are.

0:36:070:36:09

If we see people moving out of their homes,

0:36:090:36:12

they have got to be going somewhere.

0:36:120:36:13

If we presume they are not all leaving the borough,

0:36:130:36:16

they must be moving in with other people,

0:36:160:36:18

so they can be putting pressure on other homes.

0:36:180:36:21

It will be difficult with the housing register because people will be

0:36:210:36:25

looking to come onto an already stressed housing register.

0:36:250:36:28

Because councils have to be informed about repossession orders,

0:36:280:36:33

Mark became aware that Mandy was due in court

0:36:330:36:35

and on the brink of losing her home.

0:36:350:36:37

I'm one of these that tries to sort it out myself,

0:36:370:36:40

but it has obviously got to the stage this time where I can't.

0:36:400:36:44

I am hoping, relying on Mark.

0:36:440:36:47

With just two days until the court hearing, Mark needs

0:36:490:36:53

to prepare a concrete defence and he has got something up his sleeve.

0:36:530:36:58

Any loan under 25,000 is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act.

0:36:580:37:02

That means that you can apply for something called a time order.

0:37:020:37:06

A time order means asking the court to change the deal and give you

0:37:060:37:10

more time to pay a loan if you have fallen behind with the payments,

0:37:100:37:14

irrespective of what the original deal stated.

0:37:140:37:17

The judge has absolute discretion to do whatever

0:37:170:37:20

he chooses in that case about the repayment.

0:37:200:37:23

It is based on the means to pay and the intent to pay.

0:37:230:37:29

But getting a time order isn't necessarily easy.

0:37:290:37:33

It means Mandy must appear in court and tell the judge about her difficult personal circumstances

0:37:330:37:39

and convince the court that she will pay the loan.

0:37:390:37:43

If they repossess the house, I haven't got any plans

0:37:430:37:45

because, at this precise moment, I've got nowhere to go.

0:37:450:37:47

I'll be living in my car.

0:37:470:37:50

It's the big day and Mandy drives off to the court.

0:37:500:37:53

She leaves her home not knowing if she has a future there.

0:37:530:37:57

Mark arrives at the court too and he tries to help Mandy keep calm.

0:37:580:38:03

-Feeling nervous?

-Scared.

0:38:030:38:05

You won't have to say anything.

0:38:050:38:07

All the judge is going to do is ask you who you are.

0:38:070:38:10

He will understand you are a bit nervous.

0:38:100:38:12

It's just a case of what we can put in front of him

0:38:120:38:17

that he's going to be happy with.

0:38:170:38:20

I just got it in my head that I'm not going home after today.

0:38:200:38:25

Can't tell with the court because it's down to the judge,

0:38:250:38:28

not what I think. It's what the court thinks.

0:38:280:38:31

I think the best thing is we go in there and keep our fingers crossed.

0:38:310:38:37

-Are you all right?

-I think so.

-You won't have to do a lot.

0:38:370:38:42

Just follow my lead, all right?

0:38:420:38:45

OK.

0:38:450:38:46

After an agonising legal battle, finally,

0:38:520:38:55

Mandy and Mark emerge from the courts.

0:38:550:38:58

Yeah, we got a time order.

0:39:020:39:03

It is going to be reviewed after four months,

0:39:030:39:06

but we got all the terms that we wanted.

0:39:060:39:08

Yeah.

0:39:080:39:09

The solicitor didn't know where he was.

0:39:090:39:11

-He didn't know where to look.

-We got a good result there.

0:39:110:39:14

Excellent. I'm really pleased.

0:39:140:39:16

Mark put the case to him about what we would offer and all that.

0:39:160:39:20

He just looked through it and agreed with it, basically.

0:39:200:39:23

I've got to come back for a review in about four months.

0:39:230:39:28

I've still got a home.

0:39:280:39:30

SHE LAUGHS

0:39:300:39:32

Thanks ever so much. I'll speak to you in four months.

0:39:320:39:36

Mandy's time order means she keeps her home,

0:39:360:39:38

but must pay the new agreed amount.

0:39:380:39:42

The court will review in four months to make sure she is doing what she promised.

0:39:420:39:46

They saved my home, they saved me. They saved everything.

0:39:460:39:50

I probably see 20-30 repossession hearings every month

0:39:500:39:55

that comes to Basingstoke.

0:39:550:39:57

Our success rate of keeping people in their homes is about 85%.

0:39:570:40:01

We think that's really good.

0:40:010:40:03

Most of that is by people picking up the phone, talking to us, turning up at court.

0:40:030:40:07

She has gone from an absolutely hopeless situation,

0:40:070:40:13

not knowing where she'll be, to being able to remain in her home.

0:40:130:40:15

I think we can all appreciate what that would mean inside.

0:40:150:40:19

Earlier, we heard about ex-soldier Alan Wilson's worst ever deal

0:40:240:40:28

with his bank Northern Rock.

0:40:280:40:31

They repossessed his house that was worth £112,000

0:40:310:40:34

and sold it at auction for just £67,000.

0:40:340:40:39

Only around half of what he owed on his mortgage.

0:40:390:40:42

They then chased Alan for the shortfall.

0:40:420:40:46

Registered debt counsellor and former policeman Mike Thomas

0:40:460:40:50

has advised him to declare himself bankrupt and since his last visit,

0:40:500:40:54

an Army charity has agreed to pay the bankruptcy fees.

0:40:540:40:58

Today, with his girlfriend and Mike,

0:40:590:41:01

he arrives at Stoke-on-Trent County Court for his bankruptcy hearing.

0:41:010:41:06

Bankruptcy still carries a stigma for many people.

0:41:060:41:09

For someone in Alan's position, who has already lost their home

0:41:090:41:13

and has little prospect of ever repaying their debts,

0:41:130:41:16

Mike believes it is the only sensible option.

0:41:160:41:19

Going bankrupt would mean all Alan's financial

0:41:190:41:22

affairs would be looked after by the official receiver or a trustee.

0:41:220:41:26

Basically, he would become free from debt.

0:41:260:41:29

As a bankrupt, he wouldn't be allowed to do

0:41:290:41:32

some things like get credit for over £500 without disclosing bankruptcy.

0:41:320:41:37

Most first-time bankrupts are discharged after one year.

0:41:370:41:41

I'm nervous. I've never been in this environment before.

0:41:410:41:45

I am quite nervous.

0:41:450:41:47

I don't know how the protocol works or what is going to be said to me.

0:41:470:41:51

I hope they'll look favourable on me and see that I have tried.

0:41:510:41:57

I have not just tried to enjoy myself.

0:41:570:42:00

And this is how I got there.

0:42:000:42:02

Hopefully, they will go in my favour.

0:42:020:42:06

An hour and a half later, Alan comes out of the court, officially declared bankrupt.

0:42:070:42:12

-Are you all right?

-It's done now.

0:42:140:42:17

-His debts are now behind him.

-That's it.

0:42:170:42:20

Alan has become one of the 330 or so people who are going

0:42:200:42:24

bankrupt in the UK every day.

0:42:240:42:27

I don't believe it. Honestly, I can't believe that's it.

0:42:270:42:31

Happy?

0:42:360:42:38

Yeah, I just can't believe it.

0:42:390:42:41

Thanks, Mike. Thank you.

0:42:430:42:45

Thank you very much.

0:42:450:42:47

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