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This programme contains strong language and scenes which some viewers may find disturbing | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
RADIO: 'The witnesses are entering the witness room. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
'The condemned has declined to make a last statement. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
'Perspiration is now being wiped from the forehead of the condemned.' | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
'On my count of three? One, two, three.' | 0:00:17 | 0:00:22 | |
CLUNKING | 0:00:22 | 0:00:23 | |
'The execution is now in progress. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:27 | |
'He is sitting there with clenched fists.' | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
'He's slowly relaxing at this time.' | 0:00:33 | 0:00:35 | |
-'Death did occur at 12:24. That completes it. -Smooth job.' | 0:00:40 | 0:00:46 | |
'OK, we appreciate it. Get us another one.' | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
The numbers went from one, two, three, four and it kept climbing. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:10 | |
OVER PHONE: 'How many people are there? Your dad...?' | 0:01:17 | 0:01:19 | |
-'My whole family's dead'. -'OK'. -'I don't know what to do, man'. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:23 | |
The only person who had the opportunity and the intent | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
and the motive was that man sitting right there. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:30 | |
"It'll be all right, Grandma," is what he says. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:36 | |
Well, I'm 22. | 0:01:58 | 0:01:59 | |
I've not gone through as many life experiences as the others. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:06 | |
Juror number three. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:09 | |
I've been in the service, I've been in the military | 0:02:09 | 0:02:13 | |
and I've worked in all these big industries, | 0:02:13 | 0:02:15 | |
mechanical and electrical engineer. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
So, you know, I've been all over the place | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
and been in a lot of things. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
So it takes all that to know a little something | 0:02:22 | 0:02:26 | |
about the world besides one little place. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:28 | |
Juror 32. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:31 | |
-We are deciding someone's fate. -Deciding someone's fate. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:36 | |
I've never been in this situation before, | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
so I don't know what to think of it, and also why. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
Who am I to be... Yeah, you know? I just don't know anything about it. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:47 | |
I don't know why they needed me so bad, you know? | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
Juror number four. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:52 | |
I'm a very religious person. | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
If I'm strong enough to stand behind my faith, | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
then I'm probably strong enough to stand up | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
to anything that may happen in a deliberation room. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:04 | |
I've never been picked for a jury before. Never even been... | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
It all happened so fast. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
When they called my name out the first day | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
of the jury selection process, | 0:03:13 | 0:03:15 | |
I can just remember my heart racing | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
and realising that "You're in it now. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:19 | |
"This is a part of it. This is going to be your life | 0:03:19 | 0:03:22 | |
"for at least the next week or so, | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
"and you're really going to have to make a decision here". | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
Juror number eight. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:29 | |
Juror number 11 in the Guy Heinze Jr trial. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
We have some breaking news tonight | 0:03:35 | 0:03:37 | |
out of the coastal town of Brunswick, Georgia. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
Police responding to a 911 call have found seven people dead | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
inside a mobile home. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:44 | |
Police aren't saying much | 0:03:44 | 0:03:46 | |
about what happened inside this mobile home, | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
except to say it's where people were found murdered. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
Here's the latest from the chief of police. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
Should people be worried? | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
We all need to be worried. I mean, why wouldn't you? | 0:03:57 | 0:03:59 | |
Until this is solved, of course we need to be worried. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
You have to understand, this is a highly unusual event. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
This one is not what you'd call a typical homicide. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
A very violent death. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
Very violent. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:14 | |
My impression when I first looked at it | 0:04:15 | 0:04:19 | |
was that whoever did this... | 0:04:19 | 0:04:21 | |
..had a lot of rage. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:24 | |
The most heinous crime we've ever had in the community, | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
and I think we all know that, and I think that speaks for itself. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:32 | |
Police say each of them was beaten with a blunt object. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
I try and stay in, I lock my car. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
It's making me wonder, you know, | 0:04:38 | 0:04:40 | |
who's walking around who's capable of actually doing this? | 0:04:40 | 0:04:43 | |
Breaking news out of Georgia where tonight a man is under arrest | 0:04:44 | 0:04:48 | |
charged with killing eight people. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:49 | |
This is the suspect, 22-year-old Guy Heinze Jr, | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
who now faces eight counts of murder. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
Seven of those victims are related to him. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
'I am absolutely certain, 100%, what happened. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:02 | |
'I'm absolutely certain how it happened.' | 0:05:02 | 0:05:04 | |
MUSIC: "Demon Host" by Timber Timbre | 0:05:18 | 0:05:22 | |
The trial will be starting Tuesday. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
My grandson is accused of mass murder, | 0:05:37 | 0:05:41 | |
of supposedly killing eight people. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:45 | |
He has never been a confrontational person. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:05 | |
I spent a lot of time with him. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:06 | |
I babysat him while he was little | 0:06:06 | 0:06:08 | |
while his momma went to nursing school. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:10 | |
So we were kind of attached. Um... | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
I've dated all this. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
I think it shows that they focused on him in the very beginning. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:23 | |
I think from day one, which this indicates that they arrested him, | 0:06:23 | 0:06:28 | |
they didn't look any further. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
Most normal, intelligent people would realise | 0:06:30 | 0:06:32 | |
one person could not possibly beat eight people to death | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
and not have marks on him. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
Somebody would have gotten out of there, | 0:06:38 | 0:06:40 | |
somebody would have attacked him. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:42 | |
It makes absolutely no sense to me. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:44 | |
-So have you got clothes to go to court in? -Mm-hmm. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
What have you got? | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
Some button-down shirts and some pants. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
Not very talented at this clothes sorting thing. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
-How many of those will you have, Tyler? -How many what? | 0:07:01 | 0:07:05 | |
Things with your clothes in? | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
I'm going to have this blue thing, | 0:07:07 | 0:07:08 | |
this trash bag, and that should be it. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
I'm 20 years old. I live with my grandma. | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
I'm the brother, the younger brother of Guy Heinze Jr. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
'Basically, this crazy murder trial going on. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
'My dad and my uncle and my cousins got killed | 0:07:31 | 0:07:33 | |
'and they got my brother in jail for doing it.' | 0:07:33 | 0:07:35 | |
POLICE OFFICER: What's your name? | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
-Guy. -G-U-Y? | 0:07:38 | 0:07:40 | |
'Other people have their crazy stories. This is my crazy story.' | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
I am packing stuff in the truck to go to Georgia. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:49 | |
Um, my brother's trial is about to start, | 0:07:50 | 0:07:54 | |
and I have to be there with my grandmother, | 0:07:54 | 0:07:58 | |
so we're going to Georgia for the trial, basically. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:02 | |
You don't fold clothes very much. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:04 | |
You certainly couldn't get a job doing that. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:06 | |
It's got to get stuff in here. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:08 | |
Just going to have to dewrinkle these in Georgia. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
Basically, I am all they have left, because both parents are dead. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:18 | |
Guy was 17 when their mom died and Tyler was 11. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:22 | |
'It was a drug overdose.' | 0:08:22 | 0:08:24 | |
Wait. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
'Tyler was devastated. I mean, he went everywhere with his mom. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:33 | |
'He was his momma's pet.' | 0:08:33 | 0:08:35 | |
It would be smart to hold it by the side | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
instead of tearing the plastic with a split in it. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
You know smart's not my forte. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
Well, it's time you got a little bit. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
'I mean, I've already been at the rock bottom place. I can only go up. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:52 | |
'I mean, I feel like if my brother gets out of jail, | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
'that's going to be a boost for me right there | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
'and I feel like I can hold him steady and he can hold me steady.' | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
I took a lot of pictures. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
This is Guy. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:10 | |
I like the expression on his face better than anything. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
Looks like he's just gazing up at the heavens. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
I think most of them, Jean took. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
-That's his mom. -Really? -Yeah. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
Oh, they look like her. That's Tyler? | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
-That's Tyler and Guy. -Yeah. -Oh! | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
That's Tyler and Guy. Look, that is funny. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:38 | |
I mean, there's no doubt that they're brothers. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:42 | |
We have to... I mean, the jury has to see these. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
Yeah. Especially that one. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:47 | |
Look at this. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:49 | |
-Cute. That's Guy? -Yeah. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
'Just the association humanises them, | 0:09:54 | 0:09:56 | |
'you realise they have hopes, fears, dreams. | 0:09:56 | 0:09:58 | |
'That's what you want the jury to see. They're real people. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:03 | |
'Makes it harder to kill them.' | 0:10:03 | 0:10:05 | |
I'm nervous. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
You know, it's very stressful representing someone | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
that you believe did not commit the crime for which they are charged. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:16 | |
And it's even more stressful knowing that, you know, | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
their fate is literally in your hands and the hands of a jury. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
'His entire family has been murdered, | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
'and then the State is saying not only | 0:10:29 | 0:10:33 | |
' "You're the one that killed your entire family", | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
' but "We're going to kill you for killing your entire family." | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
'I think it was decided by law enforcement' | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
within the hour that Guy was the chief and only suspect. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:49 | |
I know you've been through a hell of a lot in the last hour, OK? | 0:10:49 | 0:10:54 | |
Unfortunately, you're going to have to go through it again, | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
because we've got to find the people that done this. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:00 | |
You were one of the first ones there. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
You're going to be the person that's going to help us | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
figure out what happened, OK? | 0:11:04 | 0:11:06 | |
I believe I was at home when I got the call. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:15 | |
The lieutenant who called me, a watch commander, | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
they had a homicide case and he said they had multiple victims. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:26 | |
But he didn't know how many. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:29 | |
We have four in here. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
'And the numbers went from one, two, three, four and it kept climbing, | 0:11:57 | 0:12:03 | |
'and he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call you back".' | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
So I got dressed. Told the wife, as I usually do with these things, | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
"Honey, I got to go to work, don't know when I'll see you again." | 0:12:14 | 0:12:18 | |
The biggest challenge was | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
OK, if one person did this, how can we prove that? | 0:12:25 | 0:12:30 | |
I realise you was pretty messed up that night. | 0:12:31 | 0:12:35 | |
Guy, is it possible, with you being high like you were, | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
-that you could have done this? -No, no. -OK. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:55 | |
All right. | 0:12:58 | 0:12:59 | |
'We were convinced he did it and he was alone. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
'I'm still confident of that. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:08 | |
'But the jury has to make that determination.' | 0:13:08 | 0:13:12 | |
So there's always a degree of worry, | 0:13:12 | 0:13:14 | |
because you know that, how a person looks at something, | 0:13:14 | 0:13:19 | |
they may look at it differently than you. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
Jean, I want you to come up here, if you would, please. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
They've got everything set, they're going to start the trial. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:36 | |
We need to remember them in prayer. | 0:13:37 | 0:13:39 | |
Pray...for wisdom... | 0:13:41 | 0:13:45 | |
..justice, | 0:13:46 | 0:13:48 | |
and God's will. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:50 | |
God's the only one that knows the whole story. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
We'll just encircle these families, we'll close in prayer. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
Father, I'll be the first one to tell you | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
we don't understand all that goes on. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
But, Lord, I know that you understand. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
And, Father, I just pray this morning, | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
for Jean, for Guy, for Tyler. | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
Lord, we're praying for truth. We're praying for answers. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:20 | |
We're praying for your will to be done. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:24 | |
To your glory, we ask in Jesus' name, Amen. | 0:14:24 | 0:14:28 | |
I want to thank everybody for their prayers. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:34 | |
It means a lot. | 0:14:34 | 0:14:36 | |
Good to see you. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
I hope everything turns out for you. | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
I actually am seven and a half hours away from South Georgia. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:02 | |
How do you two get on? | 0:15:04 | 0:15:05 | |
-Get along? -You can't tell? | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
SHE LAUGHS | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
For the most part, we get along pretty well. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
-He thinks I'm 30 years behind the times. -Nobody's ever said that. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:17 | |
Those words have never came out of my mouth. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
You are sitting there, telling a bald-faced black lie. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:25 | |
You told me I was 30 years behind the times | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
when I was trying to tell you how to act like a civilised young man. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:31 | |
How are you both feeling about the trial at the moment? | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
I feel good about it, but still, | 0:15:38 | 0:15:40 | |
there's always that little niggling doubt, you know, that little... | 0:15:40 | 0:15:44 | |
Unsettled, not doubt. Unsettled. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
I'm glad for Guy, cos I know | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
he's ready to get back out into the world. | 0:15:48 | 0:15:50 | |
I couldn't imagine what it would be like being in jail for four years | 0:15:50 | 0:15:54 | |
and not being able to hug anyone or have any friendships. | 0:15:54 | 0:15:58 | |
RADIO: 'A local man accused of slaughtering his family | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
'is finally going on trial four years after the killings. | 0:16:13 | 0:16:16 | |
'This is a death penalty case. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:18 | |
'Lawyers have selected the jury panel. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:25 | |
'Superior Court Judge Stephen Scarlett has ordered all of them | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
'to be sequestered throughout the trial, | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
'which is expected to last at least two weeks'. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:33 | |
This is our whole case file. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
This is everything that we've compiled. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
This represents four years of work by the Capital Defender Office | 0:16:37 | 0:16:42 | |
and a bunch of attorneys and investigators. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
In here and in everybody's head, you know, | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
we have what we think we need to be able to save his life. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:53 | |
Hey, Sam, am I the lead? | 0:16:55 | 0:16:56 | |
OK, sorry. I wasn't clear, sorry. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
All right. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:02 | |
'The train is on the track. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:04 | |
'This is one of the biggest cases ever to occur' | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
in the State of Georgia. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:08 | |
We don't have a whole lot of mass murder situations. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
Unbelievable! Bludgeoned to death. Police say he acted alone. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:15 | |
Straight after my fantastic expert panel, | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor and author of And Justice For Some. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
They have no doubt they got the right guy. I think it's silly | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
that his lawyer is saying he wasn't involved. Please! | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
Psychologist Belisa Vranich. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:30 | |
It goes back possibly even generations. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
There must something there that has been bothering him | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
and has been brewing, maybe 10, 20, 22 years. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:41 | |
Forensic pathologist Dr Bill Manion. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
I agree with all the speculation. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:46 | |
Steve Kardian, former criminal investigator. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
This was fuelled more than likely by drugs, by money, | 0:17:48 | 0:17:53 | |
by being spurred by a family member, and some sort of event | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
occurred in his life that caused that man to go under extreme rage. | 0:17:56 | 0:18:00 | |
I think there's no question he was enraged. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
You know, duh! All those dead people. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:05 | |
-This isn't a gun, where you go... -SHE IMITATES GUNFIRE | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
You have to go in, whack, whack, kill, go to the other room, | 0:18:08 | 0:18:12 | |
-do the same thing. That rage is not just festering. -Got to wrap it up. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:16 | |
Thank you to my fantastic panel. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:18 | |
A call to arms in Puerto Rico, | 0:18:18 | 0:18:20 | |
a new proposal to breed monkeys for testing and experimentation. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:23 | |
This is a barbaric ritual in my opinion, | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
and we're going to talk about it... | 0:18:26 | 0:18:27 | |
We want the case concluded. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:33 | |
Obviously, we want a guilty verdict, but juries make that decision, | 0:18:33 | 0:18:37 | |
and we deal with it. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:38 | |
'My first death penalty murder case was a murder by two young men. | 0:18:39 | 0:18:45 | |
'And I actually went to those two executions.' | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
It is an ultimate sentence. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
It ends a person's life, | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
and I think if you're there and you see what you do, | 0:18:54 | 0:18:58 | |
the result of what you've done, | 0:18:58 | 0:19:00 | |
then that gives you the ability to approach those cases, | 0:19:00 | 0:19:04 | |
I think, a lot more seriously. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
'I don't keep track of wins and losses.' | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
'I have not lost a death penalty case but, at this point,' | 0:19:12 | 0:19:17 | |
I can't tell you figures. I just don't keep up with them. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
'You know, Guy in the morning, he's going to wake up | 0:19:29 | 0:19:31 | |
'in Glynn County Detention Center. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
'He's going to wake up in his orange jumpsuit. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
'Then they're going to let him change into his suit | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
'and the tie and the jacket. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
'Then they're going to bring him out into the courtroom | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
'before the jury's in there, then they'll sit him at the table.' | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
They wanted him to wear a suit, | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
so I have bought him some suits to wear. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:08 | |
First men's suits I've ever bought in my entire life. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
First time he ever wore a suit, as a matter of fact. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
All rise for the jury, please. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
They didn't really tell us what might happen | 0:20:44 | 0:20:47 | |
or what we were going to do. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:49 | |
They just kind of threw us in there. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
The first impression I had about him was clean cut. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:58 | |
Person you could walk next to at a grocery store and think nothing of. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
It could be my brother. It could be, you know, my best friend. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
I have a son about his age, | 0:21:08 | 0:21:10 | |
so it was kind of, that kind of stuff just made it hard for me. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:16 | |
I wanted to believe that he was innocent, you know. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
I couldn't believe that somebody could do that, | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
so just in my, like, heart, you know, I thought "Surely he's innocent". | 0:21:22 | 0:21:28 | |
What was your first impression of him? | 0:21:28 | 0:21:30 | |
In my opinion, Guy Heinze Jr | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
has a stoned, kind of hollow face. | 0:21:33 | 0:21:38 | |
No remorse, no feelings. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
He was just for him, you know, and that's what struck me. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
Good afternoon, ladies and gentleman. As the judge said, | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
I'm John Johnson. I am a special assistant district attorney, | 0:21:54 | 0:21:57 | |
I work for...the district attorney, Jackie Johnson. | 0:21:57 | 0:22:01 | |
The defendant in this case is charged with eight counts of mass murder. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
This evidence is circumstantial evidence and by that I mean | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
there is no video tape of what happened inside that trailer. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
'It's like a parent going into a kitchen' | 0:22:14 | 0:22:17 | |
and seeing cookie crumbs on the counter and the cookie jar's been opened into, | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
they didn't witness the crime, there's no evidence, | 0:22:21 | 0:22:24 | |
no video tape of it and then they see their child, you know, | 0:22:24 | 0:22:27 | |
in another room standing there with cookie crumbs all over his face. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:30 | |
That's circumstantial evidence that that child took the cookies | 0:22:30 | 0:22:34 | |
and ate them and so, you have to prove those individual facts | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
to lead you, to lead a jury to the one conclusion | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
'that this defendant is the only person who could have done it.' | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
Not one person in Glynn County, | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
not one person in McIntosh County, | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
not one person in Pierce County, Brantley, Charlton, | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
not one person's DNA was in that house that the police confirmed, | 0:22:53 | 0:22:57 | |
except this defendant. | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
This defendant, | 0:23:00 | 0:23:02 | |
in a period of time over two hours, three hours... | 0:23:02 | 0:23:05 | |
..beat members of his family to death with the barrel end of a shotgun, | 0:23:07 | 0:23:10 | |
you'd be able to conclude that from the evidence in this case. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:14 | |
This case actually starts in the middle, because that's when the | 0:23:14 | 0:23:18 | |
police officers first get called out to Lot 147, New Hope Trailer Park. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:24 | |
'You have to drive into the New Hope Trailer Park, | 0:23:31 | 0:23:33 | |
'you go down a little ways and then, there's a little two-path road | 0:23:33 | 0:23:36 | |
'that goes off to the right and you cut off between some beautiful | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
'oak trees and you come to Lot 147, | 0:23:40 | 0:23:43 | |
'which is a trailer in that park.' | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
At about 8.18, eight o'clock in the morning, Margaret Orlinski was up | 0:23:51 | 0:23:55 | |
and she sees the defendant in this case drive up through her window, | 0:23:55 | 0:24:00 | |
drive up to 147, it's about eight o'clock in the morning, | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
a little after eight o'clock. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:06 | |
..the evidence that you give to the court shall be the truth, | 0:24:06 | 0:24:11 | |
-the whole truth and nothing but the truth? -I do. -Take your seat. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:14 | |
What do you recall? | 0:24:21 | 0:24:23 | |
I went outside and Guy was out there screaming and yelling, | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
saying, "My whole family's dead, my whole family's dead, | 0:24:26 | 0:24:29 | |
"you've got to call the police, call the police." | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
-Did you call 911? -Yes. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
-And is that you on that call? -Yes. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
DIALLING TONE | 0:24:37 | 0:24:39 | |
'What's going on, ma'am? | 0:24:39 | 0:24:41 | |
'There's ah, Guy has just came home and his whole family is dead, | 0:24:41 | 0:24:45 | |
'he's pretty hysterical, I can't understand... | 0:24:45 | 0:24:47 | |
-'I haven't gone over there yet. -OK. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
'This is, this is Guy, I don't know what his last name is, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
'he, he's freaking out. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:53 | |
-'Here, here. Talk to this. -I just got home and my whole family's dead. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
'OK, tell me what's going on, sir. | 0:24:56 | 0:24:58 | |
'I got, I just got home just now and everybody's dead. | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
-'Who? -My daddy's dead... | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
'How many people are there? Your dad, who else is there? | 0:25:03 | 0:25:05 | |
'My dad, my, my, my uncle and my cousins. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:10 | |
-'OK. -It looks like they've been beaten to death, I don't know. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:13 | |
'I don't know what to do, man. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
'OK. Just stay on the line with me, OK? | 0:25:16 | 0:25:20 | |
'I got to call my brother, I got to call my brother. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:23 | |
'OK, well, you need to stay on the phone with us. | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
'I got to tell him his dad's dead, his dad's dead. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
'All right, well, calm down because we've got | 0:25:28 | 0:25:30 | |
'to figure out what's going on, OK? | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
-'Yes, yes. -You've got to move, buddy.' | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
'I didn't like it.' | 0:25:36 | 0:25:38 | |
I felt uncomfortable listening to it. It was heartbreaking almost. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:43 | |
'Where is my dad?' | 0:25:43 | 0:25:45 | |
'It felt like it was genuine, I felt there was a lot of grief,' | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
I felt like, "Wow, this guy has just found his family murdered," | 0:25:51 | 0:25:56 | |
so I felt, er, I felt that was very strong in his favour. | 0:25:56 | 0:26:00 | |
'When you came in the house, what did the house look like? | 0:26:00 | 0:26:03 | |
'It looks like a fucking murder scene!' | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
He was kind of, a, kind of smart aleck... | 0:26:07 | 0:26:12 | |
towards the operator, who was obviously trying to figure out | 0:26:12 | 0:26:17 | |
what was going on and he was, he snapped back. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:21 | |
When I made my way through the house, | 0:26:48 | 0:26:51 | |
it appeared that everyone had been shot, erm... | 0:26:51 | 0:26:56 | |
that was my first take on it when I checked on everyone inside. | 0:26:56 | 0:27:00 | |
So what did you ask him? | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
Er, if there was any guns in the house, not sure if whoever had | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
done this had found them, had used one of them or anything like that. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:18 | |
And what was his response to you at that time? | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
Er, he told me about two shotguns that were inside the house. | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
What did he say? | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
Er, there's a 20-gauge pump shotgun and a 16-gauge single-shot shotgun. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:31 | |
He told me that the 16-gauge was in the trunk of his Mercury Coupe. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:38 | |
Where did he say he had gotten that from? | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
Er, the bedroom. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
And did he tell you why he did that? | 0:27:42 | 0:27:43 | |
His words were that it was hot, meaning stolen. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:48 | |
Did you know where the 16-gauge shotgun is? | 0:27:59 | 0:28:03 | |
There was supposed to be two weapons. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
The butt that of the 20-gauge shotgun | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
is at the head of Russell Toler Senior, | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
the barrel is missing. | 0:28:14 | 0:28:15 | |
The long cylinder, blunt object is not anywhere in the house | 0:28:17 | 0:28:23 | |
or has not otherwise been found. | 0:28:23 | 0:28:25 | |
'The weapon that was found missing a barrel, that missing | 0:28:27 | 0:28:30 | |
'barrel was used to kill everybody, you can at least argue that. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
'And the autopsy doctor is the only person | 0:28:33 | 0:28:36 | |
'who can present that information. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
'Doctor Donaghue was the person who did all eight autopsies. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:44 | |
'This is a death penalty case so you have to show er, that the, | 0:28:44 | 0:28:48 | |
'that really this was an outrageous type killing.' | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
Do you have a preference as to where we start? | 0:28:51 | 0:28:53 | |
I have no preference. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:55 | |
'Going into the trial, I felt that there would probably be | 0:28:56 | 0:28:59 | |
'some things that I might see or I might hear | 0:28:59 | 0:29:02 | |
'that could be a little bit disturbing.' | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
It was definitely extremely graphic erm, | 0:29:05 | 0:29:08 | |
I'll tell you what I tried to do during that time is | 0:29:08 | 0:29:11 | |
try to think of the pictures that I was seeing as not real people | 0:29:11 | 0:29:16 | |
and I know that sounds strange, because they are real people. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:19 | |
Who all lived in that trailer? | 0:29:19 | 0:29:22 | |
OK, there's me, my dad, | 0:29:22 | 0:29:26 | |
my uncle, | 0:29:26 | 0:29:28 | |
my cousin Michael, | 0:29:28 | 0:29:30 | |
my cousin Russell Junior, | 0:29:30 | 0:29:33 | |
my cousin Michelle, | 0:29:33 | 0:29:35 | |
my cousin Chrissie, | 0:29:35 | 0:29:37 | |
her boyfriend Joe and Brenda, my aunt Brenda. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:44 | |
-Brenda's your aunt? -Yeah. | 0:29:44 | 0:29:46 | |
Did you have an occasion to perform | 0:29:46 | 0:29:49 | |
an autopsy on Brenda Falagan? | 0:29:49 | 0:29:51 | |
Yes, I did. | 0:29:51 | 0:29:53 | |
38 evidences of external injury. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:57 | |
-Sorry, how many? -38. | 0:29:57 | 0:29:59 | |
Can we have these lights turned off, please? | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
On the left margin of the tongue, | 0:30:06 | 0:30:08 | |
there was a laceration with haemorrhage, | 0:30:08 | 0:30:10 | |
this is frequently due to blows to the jaw | 0:30:10 | 0:30:13 | |
that trapped the tongue between the teeth. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:15 | |
Pretty gruesome, very gruesome, very gruesome. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:21 | |
And I've seen, that's worse than what I've seen them | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
even in the military. | 0:30:24 | 0:30:26 | |
On the thenar eminence of the palm of the left hand, | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
there was a slanting laceration, these injuries on the hands maybe | 0:30:29 | 0:30:33 | |
her raising her hand to defend herself. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:35 | |
'It showed maybe too much of a person, but you had to show it' | 0:30:37 | 0:30:42 | |
to realise what happened, you know, what went on. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
Er, there were 48 injuries on the external | 0:30:46 | 0:30:49 | |
surface of the body of Michelle Toler. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
Sir, could you detail those for us, please? | 0:30:52 | 0:30:54 | |
The body was that of a young white female weighing 115 pounds and | 0:30:54 | 0:30:59 | |
appeared the stated age of 15 years. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:03 | |
On the proximal phalanx of the anterior right index finger, | 0:31:03 | 0:31:07 | |
there is erm...a laceration, zero point two inches, | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
the fourth and fifth left metacarpal bones of the hand this area, | 0:31:11 | 0:31:17 | |
the underlying bones were fractured, the metacarpal bones. | 0:31:17 | 0:31:21 | |
As far as her mouth and teeth are concerned, | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
can you describe what you observed? | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
Many, many interior teeth are fractured and loose. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:30 | |
We couldn't turn this off or just change the channel if we were scared | 0:31:32 | 0:31:38 | |
of something we were seeing, we had to sit there and face our fear | 0:31:38 | 0:31:42 | |
and actually see the actual pictures and the what, this was real life, | 0:31:42 | 0:31:48 | |
this had, you know, it happened down the street | 0:31:48 | 0:31:50 | |
from where my, my grandparents live. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:53 | |
Let's talk about the injuries to Mr Toler's head and face. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
All right, in this case, there were 36 evidences of injury. | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
There are multiple comminuted skull fractures. | 0:31:59 | 0:32:03 | |
Again, the skull is broken into multiple pieces. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:06 | |
-On each different victim... -They were similar. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:09 | |
..they were all very similar injuries. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:11 | |
'And to have to listen to it over and over and over for...' | 0:32:11 | 0:32:16 | |
through eight of them. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:17 | |
I think it took two days to listen to all of it. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
Yeah, it did take two days to listen to all the injuries. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
Mr Toler Senior died of cranial cerebral injuries, | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
injuries to the skull and brain due to blunt trauma. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:31 | |
Mr Toler Junior died of cranial cerebral injuries to the skull. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:36 | |
Chrissy Toler died of cranial cerebral injuries | 0:32:36 | 0:32:39 | |
due to blunt trauma. | 0:32:39 | 0:32:40 | |
Did you have an occasion to perform an autopsy on Guy Heinze Senior? | 0:32:40 | 0:32:45 | |
Er, yes, I did. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:46 | |
There were 22 evidences of external injury. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:51 | |
There were 17 internal injuries, | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
there was extensive fractures | 0:32:54 | 0:32:56 | |
of the right side of the skull from the front... | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
'Most of the time, when there were pictures around his father,' | 0:32:59 | 0:33:03 | |
Mr Heinze would look down erm, he couldn't look at things er, | 0:33:03 | 0:33:07 | |
they obviously affected him emotionally and, | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
and you could see that emotion on him. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:12 | |
'He was without a father, er...I felt compassion for, for Mr Heinze.' | 0:33:12 | 0:33:16 | |
There were multiple basal skull fractures. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
This is significant because these take a tremendous | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
amount of force to create and the skull becomes deformed. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:26 | |
Because you usually only see these kinds of injuries | 0:33:26 | 0:33:28 | |
in an automobile accidents or when people fall out of buildings. | 0:33:28 | 0:33:32 | |
I kept watching him and he wasn't looking up, | 0:33:33 | 0:33:38 | |
he looked down, so I felt like, "Well, he's avoiding looking at it | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
"and that way he's not going to show any emotion." | 0:33:42 | 0:33:45 | |
I just wish he would have at least paid attention or watched. | 0:33:45 | 0:33:49 | |
A matter of fact, he just hang his head down | 0:33:49 | 0:33:51 | |
and grinned a little bit, you know it's, he didn't say nothing. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:55 | |
I just thought that maybe it was like because it happened | 0:33:55 | 0:33:58 | |
-so long ago maybe he just kind of... -Had coped with it. | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
Yeah, he, that's how he learned to cope and maybe he had already | 0:34:01 | 0:34:04 | |
got out his anger or hurt or frustration, you know, whatever out. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:09 | |
Are you able to say whether or not the injuries as to | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
each of these eight people are consistent one with the other? | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
Yes, they are. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:21 | |
Are they consistent with the barrel of a gun? | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
The barrel, the barrel of the gun is...certainly fits the pattern here. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:28 | |
Are you aware of a situation where one person has killed eight or nine people? | 0:34:28 | 0:34:32 | |
Yes. I, in 1887, a man by the name | 0:34:32 | 0:34:35 | |
of Tom Woolfolk killed his entire family, | 0:34:35 | 0:34:39 | |
his father, his stepmother, six siblings and an aunt...with an axe. | 0:34:39 | 0:34:45 | |
Thank you. Your witness. | 0:34:45 | 0:34:47 | |
If I had to ask you if you know of an incident that's comparable | 0:34:47 | 0:34:52 | |
to the killing of eight people in a single mobile home | 0:34:52 | 0:34:56 | |
with nobody tied up, | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
with four people in one bedroom, two in another, two in the den, | 0:34:59 | 0:35:02 | |
your answer would be no, you know of no comparable case. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:06 | |
That's correct. | 0:35:06 | 0:35:07 | |
OK. I just wanted to be clear. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
-You're released, Doctor, thank you so much. -Thank you. -Have a good day. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
You didn't even eat your sandwich. | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
Looking at them autopsy photos and I thought about my dad | 0:35:26 | 0:35:29 | |
and my uncle in them, | 0:35:29 | 0:35:31 | |
in a million years I would never expected that would be their legacy. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:34 | |
That's how people will remember them, people will remember them | 0:35:34 | 0:35:37 | |
as the people who got killed in that trailer in New Hope. | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
They won't remember any of the good things they've done in their life, | 0:35:39 | 0:35:42 | |
all they will remember is those are the people that got beat to death | 0:35:42 | 0:35:45 | |
in that trailer in New Hope and that's their legacy, that's their life story. | 0:35:45 | 0:35:49 | |
That's the stamp that's been placed on their life. | 0:35:49 | 0:35:51 | |
I don't want that to be my stamp. | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
I don't want this to be, "Aw, that's that kid whose brother "got accused of killing his family." | 0:35:53 | 0:35:58 | |
I don't want that to be my stamp. | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
I want my stamp on life to mean something more than that. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:03 | |
'Prosecution said that an angry Heinze spent two to three | 0:36:13 | 0:36:16 | |
'hours beating his family one at a time with the barrel of a shot gun, | 0:36:16 | 0:36:21 | |
'but his defence says that's just not the case. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:24 | |
'Testimony continues tomorrow.' | 0:36:24 | 0:36:26 | |
This is not a case where we're arguing something we don't believe. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:33 | |
You know, the evidence just isn't there and we're going to point | 0:36:36 | 0:36:40 | |
that out to the jury and we're going to try to get them to understand | 0:36:40 | 0:36:43 | |
the reason evidence is not there is because Guy didn't do it. | 0:36:43 | 0:36:47 | |
Nothing compares to this crime scene. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:53 | |
'And we want the jury to be thinking - how in the heck, | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
'could one person have done this?' | 0:36:59 | 0:37:02 | |
Could you state your name for the record, please? | 0:37:11 | 0:37:13 | |
My name is Michael Knox. | 0:37:13 | 0:37:15 | |
I'm actually a forensic consultant, | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
I have my own business where I er, consult about crime scenes | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
and traffic accidents and things like that. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
'From a stand point of physical evidence this is, there's none,' | 0:37:24 | 0:37:28 | |
there's not that there's not much or there's only a little, | 0:37:28 | 0:37:31 | |
there's nothing that, | 0:37:31 | 0:37:33 | |
that puts him in that scene at the time of the murders that happened, | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
so you have really no physical evidence at all | 0:37:36 | 0:37:38 | |
to tie him to these crimes. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
I think we got this case what, January 2012, and it took us a good | 0:37:42 | 0:37:47 | |
four or five months before we really understood what was occurring here. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:51 | |
What we find with a lot of police departments is that they're actually | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
just almost sightseers, | 0:37:54 | 0:37:56 | |
they're coming in here and they're picking up | 0:37:56 | 0:37:59 | |
what they can see but they're not really searching for that hidden evidence | 0:37:59 | 0:38:02 | |
and there's a lot of hidden evidence here that was overlooked. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:05 | |
One of the biggest things that we saw out of this was the fact | 0:38:05 | 0:38:07 | |
that it was very clear that this was not carried out by one person alone. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:11 | |
This is where er...Russell Toler Senior came to final rest, | 0:38:13 | 0:38:18 | |
this is where he was finally killed. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:20 | |
Russell Toler Senior, he resisted quite a bit and moved around through | 0:38:21 | 0:38:26 | |
that bedroom a significant amount and there's blood splatter | 0:38:26 | 0:38:30 | |
there that shows him getting attacked from two different sides. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:34 | |
There's directions of force here that are different, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:38 | |
this spatter indicates that he's being beaten pretty much | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
straight down over his head, | 0:38:42 | 0:38:44 | |
but we have spatter from this side | 0:38:44 | 0:38:46 | |
that has a directional force coming this way. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
So either the one person that's attacking him | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
is running around and getting him from different sides | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
or the more likely answer is you have at least two people there. | 0:38:56 | 0:39:00 | |
This is, er, the middle bedroom where Brenda Falagan was killed. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:03 | |
She was killed in bed as she's sleeping, | 0:39:06 | 0:39:08 | |
but you notice that there's no blood spatter, there's no impact | 0:39:08 | 0:39:11 | |
spatter on this wall to her left side or on the wall above her head. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:16 | |
The reason for that is that this pillow was over her face while | 0:39:16 | 0:39:21 | |
she's beaten, which of course, requires that you're striking | 0:39:21 | 0:39:25 | |
her with one hand while holding the pillow with your other hand, | 0:39:25 | 0:39:29 | |
but she also has transfer blood on her left arm. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:35 | |
If you look here, at her left wrist, | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
you can clearly see transfer blood in the shape of fingers, | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
so now you have a scenario where a person has to be trying | 0:39:42 | 0:39:46 | |
to hold her arm down, | 0:39:46 | 0:39:48 | |
cover her face and inflict injuries, all at the same time. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:53 | |
'I don't know much about that kind of field' | 0:39:55 | 0:39:58 | |
and so, it was almost like he was like a teacher. | 0:39:58 | 0:40:02 | |
Russell Toler Junior, there's evidence of him | 0:40:02 | 0:40:05 | |
being grabbed by his ankles, you can see a handprint in blood, | 0:40:05 | 0:40:09 | |
somebody's got him by the legs, pulling on his legs, | 0:40:09 | 0:40:12 | |
this is occurring, he's also getting beaten, er, which is again | 0:40:12 | 0:40:15 | |
indicators that this is multiple people doing this, not one person. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:19 | |
It's definitely difficult to see that many people beat | 0:40:19 | 0:40:23 | |
in the situation that they were and think that one person could do it. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:28 | |
How many perpetrators in total would have been involved in the murders? | 0:40:28 | 0:40:33 | |
I would say that you're looking at probably a number around five | 0:40:33 | 0:40:38 | |
that would have taken in order to carry this out. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:40 | |
That, that's your analysis, that's your opinion, right? | 0:40:40 | 0:40:43 | |
-Yes, yes... -Based on your...? | 0:40:43 | 0:40:45 | |
Based upon all my knowledge, experience and training education in this area, yes. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:49 | |
'This is the crime scene of your career, this is not the kind of | 0:40:49 | 0:40:53 | |
'crime scene that you do the best you can do on, this is the one where you | 0:40:53 | 0:40:56 | |
'get the very best crime scene people you can find wherever you have | 0:40:56 | 0:40:59 | |
'to get them from' | 0:40:59 | 0:41:00 | |
in order to manage this crime scene, erm, and instead, | 0:41:00 | 0:41:04 | |
there's just so much stuff that was done wrong, evidence that's missed. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:08 | |
All of these bodies should have been processed for finger prints | 0:41:08 | 0:41:11 | |
and they weren't, so that evidence is lost forever. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
There is some clothing in, in one of the bathrooms | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
that had dripped blood on it | 0:41:19 | 0:41:22 | |
that they photographed. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:24 | |
But they never collected any of it | 0:41:24 | 0:41:26 | |
and the fact is that none of the victims were ever in that bathroom. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
If it's not Guy Heinze's DNA, then there's somebody else out there | 0:41:30 | 0:41:35 | |
that's involved in this crime and that was never even looked at, | 0:41:35 | 0:41:38 | |
they never even collected it, much less tested any of it. | 0:41:38 | 0:41:42 | |
If I decide a theory and I say this is my theory of what happened and | 0:41:42 | 0:41:47 | |
I've got that theory planted in my mind when I get started, my tendency | 0:41:47 | 0:41:51 | |
is going to be to seek out evidence that tends to prove my theory. | 0:41:51 | 0:41:57 | |
And it's going to tend, | 0:41:57 | 0:41:58 | |
I'm going to look for things that tend to establish that I'm right | 0:41:58 | 0:42:01 | |
and I'm going to tend to ignore thing that...which show that I'm wrong. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:05 | |
So basically, what you're saying is | 0:42:05 | 0:42:06 | |
that the Glynn County Police Department have, | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
hasn't got enough sense to handle... | 0:42:09 | 0:42:10 | |
No, it's, you're, it's not about having sense to do it, it's about | 0:42:10 | 0:42:14 | |
having experience, I mean it'll be like you standing up here and | 0:42:14 | 0:42:17 | |
trying this case, if you were a brand-new attorney and never tried a case | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
before, you wouldn't be standing here trying a case of this magnitude. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:24 | |
I guess it depends on how good I am. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
Ladies and gentleman, that's it for today. | 0:42:30 | 0:42:32 | |
We'll see you at 8.15 in the morning. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
I think the case is already falling apart and they know it, | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
they know it. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
Well, Mike you have done a fantastic job so far. | 0:42:46 | 0:42:48 | |
I mean I don't know. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:50 | |
That's how I'm reading the jury right now is that we've got them | 0:42:50 | 0:42:54 | |
on the police fucked up this investigation and don't give | 0:42:54 | 0:42:57 | |
a shit about Guy's rights and they're disgusted with Glynn County. | 0:42:57 | 0:43:01 | |
Come up! | 0:43:07 | 0:43:08 | |
'Heinze is accused of committing one of the worst mass | 0:43:10 | 0:43:13 | |
'murders in state history. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:15 | |
'Heinze faces the death penalty if convicted. | 0:43:15 | 0:43:17 | |
'Testimony resumes in the morning.' | 0:43:17 | 0:43:20 | |
Come on here! | 0:43:22 | 0:43:24 | |
'Where's Tyler been staying? | 0:43:30 | 0:43:32 | |
'He's been staying with his friend across town, | 0:43:32 | 0:43:36 | |
'sort of, I guess my direction might be a little off.' | 0:43:36 | 0:43:40 | |
He's been OK except for yesterday, | 0:43:40 | 0:43:42 | |
he got upset when they was discussing his dad and his, | 0:43:42 | 0:43:47 | |
the expert witness was discussing how he was beat. | 0:43:47 | 0:43:51 | |
You've got to just be strong, you know, I mean my grandma... | 0:43:59 | 0:44:02 | |
I have to be strong for my grandma because she, | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
she puts on a hard face and a smile, but there's a lot of emotion | 0:44:05 | 0:44:10 | |
in there and she's, she's easily brought to an emotional state. | 0:44:10 | 0:44:14 | |
I mean, we've had downs and we have ups, but no matter what, | 0:44:14 | 0:44:17 | |
we have to keep that relationship for the rest of her life or my life. | 0:44:17 | 0:44:21 | |
And I mean, I'm just going to have to do what I have to do | 0:44:21 | 0:44:23 | |
to make that possible. | 0:44:23 | 0:44:25 | |
Just being mature around her and prove to her that | 0:44:25 | 0:44:29 | |
I am capable of growing up and doing better than what she knows me to do. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:34 | |
He has no family left, I think all he has left is his grandma | 0:44:35 | 0:44:38 | |
and his brother, you know, and if his brother gets convicted, | 0:44:38 | 0:44:41 | |
he don't have his brother any more. | 0:44:41 | 0:44:43 | |
He's had a tough life, I believe he, | 0:44:43 | 0:44:46 | |
he has some good coming his way soon. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:48 | |
Hopefully, it's his brother, it starts with his brother. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:52 | |
'It's Monday October 21st, good morning, everyone, | 0:44:56 | 0:44:59 | |
-'I'm Kim Getsby. -And I'm Dave Kartun and we're set to begin week | 0:44:59 | 0:45:02 | |
'two of the Guy Heinze murder trial this morning in Glynn County. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:06 | |
'Let's talk motive. Days before he was murdered, the suspect's dad | 0:45:10 | 0:45:14 | |
'told his family he had just won a 25,000 settlement, | 0:45:14 | 0:45:18 | |
'my feeling is when you have that level of rage directed | 0:45:18 | 0:45:22 | |
'at family members, that's personal. Everybody debate the issue, | 0:45:22 | 0:45:25 | |
'I want to know what you think. | 0:45:25 | 0:45:27 | |
'There is something going on there | 0:45:27 | 0:45:29 | |
'and I'm going to say this as a complete guess. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:32 | |
'I bet that either he owes them money or they owe him money | 0:45:32 | 0:45:34 | |
'for whatever drug dealing was going on there and either they...' | 0:45:34 | 0:45:37 | |
'No clear motive was ever established | 0:45:37 | 0:45:39 | |
'but the prosecutor suggested that drugs...' | 0:45:39 | 0:45:41 | |
'A clear motive has yet to have been identified, | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
'Heinze has of course pleaded not guilty to all charges.' | 0:45:44 | 0:45:48 | |
Do you have occasions to discuss with Guy Heinze Junior | 0:45:48 | 0:45:52 | |
any issues that he might have had with his father having money | 0:45:52 | 0:45:58 | |
and not spending it the way he wanted it spent? | 0:45:58 | 0:46:00 | |
-Yes. -Tell us about that. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:02 | |
He came to me and he was talking about the money thing, | 0:46:02 | 0:46:06 | |
he said that, erm, his daddy was going to give money | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
to Joe for a swimming pool and Rusty for a trailer | 0:46:09 | 0:46:15 | |
and he said, "Man, my daddy ain't never done nothing for me and my brother, | 0:46:15 | 0:46:19 | |
"man, I'm going to kill him, I'm going to kill them all." | 0:46:19 | 0:46:21 | |
I said, "Hey, man, you can't be doing that, man." | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
You know, there are people who will say, "Oh, I'm just going to kill them people," and, and it means nothing, | 0:46:24 | 0:46:28 | |
-was that the way it was said in this case? -No, er... | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
-If you want proceed with cross examination, Mr Hamilton. -Thank you. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:37 | |
Mr Parker, if I understand, it was June, July or August | 0:46:37 | 0:46:41 | |
when Mr Heinze started telling you about killing his family, right? | 0:46:41 | 0:46:47 | |
He told me twice. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:49 | |
-During that time frame? -Right. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:51 | |
-August 2009, correct? -Right. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:54 | |
Would it surprise you | 0:46:55 | 0:46:57 | |
if I told you that his last day of employment was in September of 2008? | 0:46:57 | 0:47:05 | |
Maybe, I don't know. | 0:47:08 | 0:47:09 | |
Why did you wait for a year to call law enforcement? | 0:47:09 | 0:47:15 | |
No, no, no, no, no. | 0:47:15 | 0:47:17 | |
The truth of the matter is as you did hear about this crime, | 0:47:17 | 0:47:21 | |
you saw it on TV and you read it in the paper, right? | 0:47:21 | 0:47:23 | |
Everybody seen it on the news and read it in the paper... | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
Including you. | 0:47:26 | 0:47:28 | |
It was a sensational crime and you saw an opportunity to sit in | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
that witness stand and grab your 15 minutes of fame, isn't that right? | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
I don't need fame, buddy, I'm a minister | 0:47:34 | 0:47:37 | |
so therefore, I don't need that. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:38 | |
Where are you a minister, sir? | 0:47:38 | 0:47:40 | |
I travel. I speak down in Florida, | 0:47:40 | 0:47:44 | |
southern North Georgia. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:46 | |
-So you represent yourself as a man of God? -Yes, I do. | 0:47:46 | 0:47:49 | |
What do you think about taking the oath, sir, | 0:47:49 | 0:47:52 | |
-and raising your right hand? -At this point, I'm going to object. | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
He's being argumentative with this witness, he's saying things | 0:47:55 | 0:47:58 | |
that are improper and unprofessional to say in this court room and... | 0:47:58 | 0:48:01 | |
Withdrawn, Your Honour. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:02 | |
I object to him stating a fact. | 0:48:02 | 0:48:06 | |
'The attorney had kind of gone at him to get him flustered.' | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
I kind of thought it was a good tactic. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
And he got the witness flustered. | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
Yeah, and got me flustered. | 0:48:17 | 0:48:19 | |
Yeah. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:21 | |
Right, sir, you can stand down. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:22 | |
'The witness said Guy wanted to kill his whole family | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
'and it's just a figure of speech,' | 0:48:38 | 0:48:40 | |
people say that all the time | 0:48:40 | 0:48:42 | |
but now everything he's ever done in his life is being scrutinised, | 0:48:42 | 0:48:45 | |
every comment he ever made when he was frustrated or angry | 0:48:45 | 0:48:49 | |
and all that takes on like this totally new meaning. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:52 | |
I mean, I was mad at the DA the other day | 0:48:52 | 0:48:55 | |
and I said I was going to stab him in the face with my pen | 0:48:55 | 0:48:58 | |
and I thought, "OK, I guess I'm going to be charged with murder now." | 0:48:58 | 0:49:01 | |
Um... | 0:49:01 | 0:49:03 | |
I know my life wouldn't stand up to that kind of scrutiny. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:08 | |
-I do believe he's guilty. -What makes you think he's guilty? | 0:49:15 | 0:49:20 | |
Cos he's a crackhead. That's what crackheads do. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:23 | |
I heard he killed his whole family. He was on drugs. | 0:49:23 | 0:49:27 | |
It's a far-fetched story. The police didn't do the right work, | 0:49:27 | 0:49:31 | |
so far, what they say on the news, anyway. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:33 | |
Personally, I think they've got the right man. | 0:49:33 | 0:49:36 | |
I think it's pretty... | 0:49:36 | 0:49:38 | |
pretty clear cut. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
'How important is an alibi? | 0:49:46 | 0:49:48 | |
'Extremely important I, I feel in a case.' | 0:49:48 | 0:49:51 | |
I was waiting for some type of reason of why he wouldn't have done it. | 0:49:51 | 0:49:55 | |
OK, to Barrington Park? | 0:50:10 | 0:50:12 | |
Yeah, Barrington Park. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:14 | |
Right. | 0:50:34 | 0:50:35 | |
Can you tell us your name, please? | 0:50:44 | 0:50:45 | |
Thomas L Williams. | 0:50:45 | 0:50:46 | |
Night of the 28th, morning of the 29th 2009, | 0:50:46 | 0:50:50 | |
where were you living at the time? | 0:50:50 | 0:50:52 | |
I was living at Barrington Park. | 0:50:52 | 0:50:55 | |
Down on the Old Mahole River on McIntosh County side. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:59 | |
Who was living there with you? | 0:50:59 | 0:51:00 | |
My wife. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:02 | |
OK. And what were you all living in? | 0:51:02 | 0:51:03 | |
-A camper. -OK, and how many roads are there into Barrington Park? | 0:51:03 | 0:51:07 | |
I think, but one road. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
-OK, dirt road? -Yes, ma'am. | 0:51:10 | 0:51:12 | |
OK. And where was your camper? | 0:51:12 | 0:51:15 | |
Behind some trash cans right there, right when you come in the park. | 0:51:15 | 0:51:18 | |
OK. So if a person's coming in on the one road in, | 0:51:18 | 0:51:21 | |
-would they see your camper? -Yes, ma'am. | 0:51:21 | 0:51:23 | |
And you didn't see no other vehicles there or anything? | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
'He had gone to Barrington Park, he had stayed there for several hours. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:41 | |
'The defendant says he had seen no-one there.' | 0:51:41 | 0:51:44 | |
Was there anybody else at the park that night? | 0:51:44 | 0:51:47 | |
Yes, ma'am, there was some people camping about here, | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
some people camped out here and some people camped out here, | 0:51:50 | 0:51:53 | |
at that end of the park. | 0:51:53 | 0:51:55 | |
Was that the time frame in which he was killing his family erm, | 0:51:55 | 0:51:59 | |
or arguing with them or, or doing whatever he did? | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
That park is approximately eight acres. | 0:52:01 | 0:52:04 | |
Yeah. Somebody could get out and hide. | 0:52:04 | 0:52:06 | |
But that's as far as looking across the park, | 0:52:06 | 0:52:10 | |
you can see everything in the park. | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
You're certainly not in a position to say | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
what somebody saw or did not see that night, are you? | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
No. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:20 | |
They are drilling it into our heads this one way, | 0:52:20 | 0:52:22 | |
and the other side is drilling it into our heads this way. | 0:52:22 | 0:52:25 | |
-Constantly, all day long... -Just like a whirlwind. | 0:52:25 | 0:52:28 | |
..entered through here, | 0:52:28 | 0:52:29 | |
we passed by the first victim right here. | 0:52:29 | 0:52:34 | |
You want to fall asleep, being so tired. | 0:52:34 | 0:52:38 | |
This is like... You start early that morning, getting up | 0:52:38 | 0:52:41 | |
at five o'clock - we do - and we take a shower, get into the van | 0:52:41 | 0:52:46 | |
and escorted. | 0:52:46 | 0:52:49 | |
And then could leave there eight o'clock at night, | 0:52:49 | 0:52:52 | |
go get something to eat and back to bed. | 0:52:52 | 0:52:54 | |
That's for two weeks. | 0:52:54 | 0:52:56 | |
This is Michelle. | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
You're dealing with a lot of emotions and stress that | 0:52:59 | 0:53:02 | |
you're not used to dealing with in your life. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:04 | |
Unless you've been on a jury, | 0:53:04 | 0:53:06 | |
I don't think you can ever imagine | 0:53:06 | 0:53:08 | |
the stress that is there. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:10 | |
When we got back to the hotel, | 0:53:10 | 0:53:12 | |
which was late, every night about 9.30, | 0:53:12 | 0:53:14 | |
I would read a book just to take my mind off of everything. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:19 | |
That's the only way I slept. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:22 | |
There's many nights that I just sat there and stared. | 0:53:22 | 0:53:26 | |
'Today, jurors will hear final evidence in the trial | 0:53:28 | 0:53:31 | |
'of a South Georgia man accused of killing...' | 0:53:31 | 0:53:33 | |
'Guy Heinze Jr could be sentenced to death if he's found guilty...' | 0:53:33 | 0:53:37 | |
All right. Er...what are those? | 0:53:39 | 0:53:41 | |
Erm, these are a pair of khaki shorts, I've describe them, um... | 0:53:41 | 0:53:46 | |
'When we get to the crime scene, he's wearing those shorts. | 0:53:46 | 0:53:50 | |
'Underneath, he was wearing silver and black gym shorts what was found | 0:53:52 | 0:53:57 | |
'was the blood of three different people from that house. | 0:53:57 | 0:54:01 | |
'There was a big stain from one of the girls,' | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
so you know, how does that blood get there, is an argument you can make. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:08 | |
If he's not there when the killings are, | 0:54:08 | 0:54:10 | |
have occurred, how does the blood from one of the girls get on there | 0:54:10 | 0:54:13 | |
when he's wearing pants over those clothes when the police get there? | 0:54:13 | 0:54:18 | |
Here's the blood. | 0:54:18 | 0:54:19 | |
Chrissy Toler's blood. | 0:54:21 | 0:54:23 | |
He wears these all day long, all night long, | 0:54:25 | 0:54:29 | |
this is his underwear, everything else gets changed but this. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:33 | |
OK. | 0:54:50 | 0:54:51 | |
OK. | 0:54:53 | 0:54:54 | |
The testimony and showing the blood on the shorts | 0:54:59 | 0:55:02 | |
was the state's strongest piece of evidence | 0:55:02 | 0:55:06 | |
that supported their theory that he | 0:55:06 | 0:55:09 | |
killed the family, disposed of all these other bloody clothes | 0:55:09 | 0:55:12 | |
he would have had to have been wearing, | 0:55:12 | 0:55:15 | |
he cleaned himself up, but he had forgotten to get rid of this | 0:55:15 | 0:55:18 | |
one pair of shorts that still had blood on them. | 0:55:18 | 0:55:22 | |
I think the state wanted the shorts to be their smoking gun evidence, | 0:55:22 | 0:55:25 | |
I don't think it, it rose to that level, I think it cast a suspicion. | 0:55:25 | 0:55:31 | |
All of us wanted to be able to just put this nice little puzzle | 0:55:34 | 0:55:38 | |
together and piece it together and say, "OK, this is exactly how it happened," but you couldn't. | 0:55:38 | 0:55:42 | |
That's a perfect world. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:44 | |
If they fit together like a puzzle so perfect, | 0:55:44 | 0:55:46 | |
they wouldn't have needed us as a jury. | 0:55:46 | 0:55:48 | |
The evidence is closed, | 0:55:48 | 0:55:50 | |
we are now ready to proceed with closing arguments. | 0:55:50 | 0:55:54 | |
It's their job to convince me during the closing arguments. | 0:55:54 | 0:55:58 | |
They're lawyers, their job is to convince, for the defence, | 0:55:58 | 0:56:01 | |
they just want to convince me just a one little smidgen that it, | 0:56:01 | 0:56:05 | |
that he might not be guilty, could it be possible that he's not guilty? | 0:56:05 | 0:56:08 | |
And that's all they've got do, that's all they've got to prove to me. | 0:56:08 | 0:56:11 | |
On the other side, the prosecution has to convince me | 0:56:11 | 0:56:14 | |
and has to make me 100% sure that there is no, no other way | 0:56:14 | 0:56:19 | |
than for him to be involved in this crime. | 0:56:19 | 0:56:22 | |
He's hollering that his family has been beaten to death, | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
police officers, they went in the house and thought that they had been shot. | 0:56:26 | 0:56:30 | |
Out of his mouth. | 0:56:32 | 0:56:35 | |
He was hollering it over the telephone to the 911 operator. | 0:56:35 | 0:56:38 | |
'Can you tell what, how they were, how they were killed? | 0:56:38 | 0:56:42 | |
-'It looks like they've been beaten to death, I don't know, man. -OK.' | 0:56:42 | 0:56:45 | |
"My family's been beaten to death." | 0:56:45 | 0:56:49 | |
Don't presume anything. | 0:56:49 | 0:56:50 | |
You heard his voice on that 911 tape, | 0:56:52 | 0:56:56 | |
you heard how he sounded, you heard the desperation in his voice. | 0:56:56 | 0:57:01 | |
'How many people are there? Your dad, who else is there? | 0:57:01 | 0:57:03 | |
'My dad, my, my, my uncle, | 0:57:03 | 0:57:06 | |
-'my cousins, I don't know what to do, man! -OK.' | 0:57:06 | 0:57:12 | |
He was so traumatised, defence wants you to believe, | 0:57:12 | 0:57:16 | |
and yet he had enough in his mind to go in the house, | 0:57:16 | 0:57:21 | |
go in the master bedroom, step across Russell Toler Senior | 0:57:21 | 0:57:27 | |
and all this blood, get a shotgun out of the closet | 0:57:27 | 0:57:32 | |
and put it in the trunk of his car, why is it in the trunk? | 0:57:32 | 0:57:36 | |
He says it was stolen. | 0:57:36 | 0:57:39 | |
We have this. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:46 | |
Official document registered, we know that a family member | 0:57:46 | 0:57:49 | |
in that household owned that gun. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:53 | |
It wasn't stolen, it was not stolen. | 0:57:53 | 0:57:57 | |
God gave me a gift and that gift is to be able to take a case | 0:58:02 | 0:58:06 | |
and go to court and try it erm, at one point of time in my life, | 0:58:06 | 0:58:10 | |
I was going to be a Baptist preacher erm, | 0:58:10 | 0:58:14 | |
the Vietnam War interfered with that | 0:58:14 | 0:58:16 | |
and now, I consider myself to have been directed by God to this line | 0:58:16 | 0:58:19 | |
of work and, and to basically do my preaching in front of 12 jurors. | 0:58:19 | 0:58:25 | |
They have the gall to come in here and accuse the police officers | 0:58:25 | 0:58:31 | |
in this case of a criminal conspiracy against this defendant. | 0:58:31 | 0:58:36 | |
That's what they do, | 0:58:36 | 0:58:38 | |
because they can't fight the evidence in this case. | 0:58:38 | 0:58:41 | |
The state is not looking for the truth, | 0:58:43 | 0:58:46 | |
they are continuing to perpetuate this fraud | 0:58:46 | 0:58:49 | |
that Glynn County Law Enforcement has committed on this community | 0:58:49 | 0:58:53 | |
by rushing to judgment, by arresting this man, | 0:58:53 | 0:58:57 | |
by failing to collect evidence | 0:58:57 | 0:58:58 | |
and failing to diligently investigate this case. | 0:58:58 | 0:59:02 | |
'It's an adversarial system, | 0:59:04 | 0:59:07 | |
'you're looking for the weakness to exploit and then you see it and you | 0:59:07 | 0:59:10 | |
'run with it and you exploit and you milk it for everything it is worth.' | 0:59:10 | 0:59:15 | |
We have not come close to proving beyond reasonable doubt | 0:59:19 | 0:59:23 | |
that Guy killed his family. | 0:59:23 | 0:59:26 | |
People testify to what they see. | 0:59:30 | 0:59:32 | |
Mr Parker testified about what he heard, what was said. | 0:59:34 | 0:59:37 | |
He said, "Man, I'm going to kill them, I'll kill them all." | 0:59:37 | 0:59:40 | |
Did he get it wrong? Well, he was a year off. | 0:59:40 | 0:59:43 | |
There are some things that you hear that you go, "Oh, wow! OK, good, | 0:59:46 | 0:59:49 | |
"there's no way he could have done this!", and then you know, | 0:59:49 | 0:59:52 | |
it could be as early as five minutes later, you know, | 0:59:52 | 0:59:55 | |
when the rebuttal comes up, you go, | 0:59:55 | 0:59:57 | |
"Oh, man. OK, well, that, that poked a hole in that whole theory." | 0:59:57 | 1:00:01 | |
It was very confusing. | 1:00:01 | 1:00:03 | |
I was confused probably the majority of the time. | 1:00:03 | 1:00:06 | |
One argues for and one argues against, | 1:00:08 | 1:00:11 | |
and that's the way you weigh it. | 1:00:11 | 1:00:13 | |
The death penalty is very simply retribution, | 1:00:17 | 1:00:20 | |
it's Old Testament justice. | 1:00:20 | 1:00:24 | |
Help Mr Heinze, don't let them do this to him. | 1:00:24 | 1:00:28 | |
Do what's right because that's the definition of justice. | 1:00:28 | 1:00:33 | |
Do your duty. | 1:00:35 | 1:00:37 | |
Do justice, then you would have done the right thing. | 1:00:37 | 1:00:40 | |
Your Honour. | 1:00:40 | 1:00:41 | |
Ladies and gentleman, whatever your verdict is, | 1:00:48 | 1:00:50 | |
it must be unanimous as to each count, that is agreed to by all. | 1:00:50 | 1:00:56 | |
All the 12 of you can now retire to the deliberation room. | 1:01:04 | 1:01:07 | |
All rise for the jury, please. | 1:01:07 | 1:01:09 | |
'Until you get into that deliberation room, | 1:01:27 | 1:01:29 | |
'you really don't feel the pressure. | 1:01:29 | 1:01:32 | |
'Our first thing we were charged with was to select a foreman.' | 1:01:32 | 1:01:36 | |
I end up being the foreman of the jury, | 1:01:36 | 1:01:39 | |
definitely something that I took very seriously. | 1:01:39 | 1:01:42 | |
'There were some very strong personalities on that jury, | 1:01:42 | 1:01:45 | |
'so we knew going in there, | 1:01:45 | 1:01:47 | |
'at least I did, we were never going to have 12 people that the first | 1:01:47 | 1:01:50 | |
'time we took a vote that we'd all raise our hands and be in unison.' | 1:01:50 | 1:01:54 | |
You go through so much, a lot of tension | 1:01:55 | 1:01:57 | |
and, you know, and you've got every person that's got their own opinion, | 1:01:57 | 1:02:02 | |
which is good, you know, that's real good. | 1:02:02 | 1:02:05 | |
'We started deliberations that first afternoon | 1:02:09 | 1:02:12 | |
'and then towards the evening, we decided that's when we were going | 1:02:12 | 1:02:15 | |
'to take our first vote, after we'd had a chance to hear' | 1:02:15 | 1:02:17 | |
what everyone said and at that time, we were nine-three. | 1:02:17 | 1:02:20 | |
'We talked through it a little bit that night,' | 1:02:24 | 1:02:27 | |
I think I even said, "Of the nine, is there anybody here that is | 1:02:27 | 1:02:30 | |
"so strong on there that no matter what's laid in front of you, | 1:02:30 | 1:02:35 | |
"you cannot change your opinion?", and there was one person that said | 1:02:35 | 1:02:39 | |
"Yeah, that they were OK." Then, when we went, then I said, | 1:02:39 | 1:02:42 | |
"Of you three, is there anybody here that no matter what is presented | 1:02:42 | 1:02:47 | |
"in front of you, you cannot change your opinion?" | 1:02:47 | 1:02:50 | |
And one person said yes on that end. | 1:02:50 | 1:02:52 | |
So at that point, I said, "We've got a problem." | 1:02:52 | 1:02:55 | |
Not much else we can do this morning. | 1:02:57 | 1:02:59 | |
We are waiting for the jury to tell us our client's fate. | 1:03:01 | 1:03:06 | |
The jury gets to decide how long they want to stay | 1:03:06 | 1:03:09 | |
and then, they can come back tomorrow morning at whatever time | 1:03:09 | 1:03:12 | |
they get ready to come back at and start again | 1:03:12 | 1:03:15 | |
and it's really in their hands at this point erm, or at their mercy. | 1:03:15 | 1:03:20 | |
'After 17 hours of deliberations,' | 1:03:20 | 1:03:23 | |
the jury was split on a verdict, | 1:03:23 | 1:03:25 | |
nine to three, and now deliberations will continue later this morning. | 1:03:25 | 1:03:31 | |
'It's going to be another long day here at the Glynn County Courthouse,' | 1:03:31 | 1:03:34 | |
as deliberations in the Guy Heinze Junior trial must start anew. | 1:03:34 | 1:03:38 | |
-Good morning! -Good morning. | 1:03:43 | 1:03:45 | |
Well, the jury has come back this morning | 1:03:45 | 1:03:47 | |
and we're waiting to see if they will reach a verdict today. | 1:03:47 | 1:03:50 | |
Usually, they come back and convict our clients in like an hour, | 1:03:50 | 1:03:53 | |
so this is good. | 1:03:53 | 1:03:55 | |
This is a good sign, we're all... | 1:03:55 | 1:03:58 | |
I think it probably means that we have a jury who cares | 1:03:58 | 1:04:03 | |
and who wants to make the decision that's right for them. | 1:04:03 | 1:04:07 | |
'It was a very emotional deliberation room, there was a lot of stress.' | 1:04:09 | 1:04:14 | |
There were definitely people | 1:04:14 | 1:04:16 | |
that were, that were struggling just with the magnitude of, | 1:04:16 | 1:04:18 | |
of the decision that was... that was at hand. | 1:04:18 | 1:04:21 | |
We were all just emotionally, physically drained, | 1:04:21 | 1:04:26 | |
and when we started erm, kind of arguing that's when I kind | 1:04:26 | 1:04:31 | |
of broke down and I was just wishing that we, erm, could just get along. | 1:04:31 | 1:04:36 | |
I just don't know what it is that they are fighting | 1:04:36 | 1:04:39 | |
with each other about at this point. | 1:04:39 | 1:04:40 | |
-Yeah, they haven't even voted again. -Right. | 1:04:40 | 1:04:42 | |
I mean as far as we know it's still nine-three and we don't | 1:04:42 | 1:04:45 | |
know who the nine are, we don't know who the three are and we don't know | 1:04:45 | 1:04:48 | |
what the dispute is that they're having back in the jury room. | 1:04:48 | 1:04:52 | |
I wonder if it's nine to 3 to acquit. | 1:04:52 | 1:04:56 | |
I'm just having a hard time believing nine people think he's guilty. | 1:04:56 | 1:05:00 | |
I just can't buy that. | 1:05:00 | 1:05:01 | |
Yeah, I completely agree, Jerry. | 1:05:01 | 1:05:03 | |
But it's disturbing that we have a couple of jurors crying, erm. | 1:05:03 | 1:05:07 | |
There has been this total breakdown in their group, you know, | 1:05:07 | 1:05:11 | |
and they don't have anybody getting through this except | 1:05:11 | 1:05:13 | |
for each other, it's like you know, when families start falling apart. | 1:05:13 | 1:05:17 | |
'Some notes started coming out from the jury room' | 1:05:19 | 1:05:22 | |
about a lot of disagreement and argument among the jurors, | 1:05:22 | 1:05:26 | |
it was particularly aimed at one juror, number 152 who was | 1:05:26 | 1:05:31 | |
very contentious with some of the other jurors, we knew that | 1:05:31 | 1:05:34 | |
at times, erm, some of the jurors had been seen crying and upset. | 1:05:34 | 1:05:38 | |
So we don't know what the hell they're doing. | 1:05:38 | 1:05:41 | |
It was becoming more and more likely they would never reach a verdict. | 1:05:41 | 1:05:44 | |
Several possible outcomes here, a death penalty, also an acquittal | 1:05:47 | 1:05:50 | |
could set Guy Heinze free, they're also looking at the possibility of | 1:05:50 | 1:05:54 | |
a hung jury which means both sides would have to start all over again. | 1:05:54 | 1:05:57 | |
In the meantime the jury... | 1:05:57 | 1:05:59 | |
What we were worried about is if we had to have another | 1:06:02 | 1:06:05 | |
trial that the state would have the opportunity to fix all | 1:06:05 | 1:06:09 | |
the mistakes that they had made in this trial, more than likely | 1:06:09 | 1:06:13 | |
they probably wouldn't put Ronald Parker back up to testify, more than | 1:06:13 | 1:06:16 | |
likely they would have responses to a lot of the things that we | 1:06:16 | 1:06:19 | |
had raised about criticising the investigation that had been done. | 1:06:19 | 1:06:23 | |
There came a point where it appeared to all of us I think | 1:06:26 | 1:06:29 | |
that a hung jury was probably going to be the outcome. | 1:06:29 | 1:06:33 | |
They hadn't reached a unanimous verdict which it has to be | 1:06:33 | 1:06:36 | |
and so you have to make some decisions at that point. | 1:06:36 | 1:06:39 | |
In a surprise move this morning, the judge dismissed a juror, | 1:06:50 | 1:06:54 | |
brought an alternate back in and ruled that they start | 1:06:54 | 1:06:56 | |
the deliberations over again. | 1:06:56 | 1:06:58 | |
So we basically started back from scratch.... | 1:07:00 | 1:07:03 | |
We actually pulled out evidence again - | 1:07:03 | 1:07:06 | |
not only did we go through everyone's thought | 1:07:06 | 1:07:08 | |
process again but we pulled through evidence, we read the charge again. | 1:07:08 | 1:07:12 | |
We reached a point - I think Jim said did we want to, erm... | 1:07:12 | 1:07:17 | |
take a vote now and everybody just kind of looked around, | 1:07:17 | 1:07:22 | |
we looked at her and said, "How do you feel being the new person | 1:07:22 | 1:07:26 | |
"coming in?" She said, "Erm, you know pretty good," | 1:07:26 | 1:07:30 | |
and so we just all took a vote. | 1:07:30 | 1:07:33 | |
And we were all together. | 1:07:33 | 1:07:35 | |
We were all together at that point and we were like... | 1:07:35 | 1:07:37 | |
We were kind of pleased. | 1:07:37 | 1:07:38 | |
We all kind of looked at each other like, well, now what do | 1:07:38 | 1:07:41 | |
we do? You know, wow, we're done, we're here. | 1:07:41 | 1:07:44 | |
When they all went up it was something else, I can't | 1:07:44 | 1:07:47 | |
explain what kind of feeling it was but, yeah, I guess something else. | 1:07:47 | 1:07:53 | |
Total emotion, there was total emotion, when we had that | 1:07:55 | 1:08:00 | |
final erm, verdict, I think everyone just let loose, everyone | 1:08:00 | 1:08:03 | |
just, the...the sense of... "Oh, my goodness, erm, it's done! Oh. my | 1:08:03 | 1:08:10 | |
"goodness we, we've reached a verdict." | 1:08:10 | 1:08:13 | |
We actually were at a point where we had a... | 1:08:13 | 1:08:15 | |
We've got to turn something in, we've done this. | 1:08:15 | 1:08:18 | |
I need to know whether I'm going to have to go the rest of my life | 1:08:25 | 1:08:28 | |
without my brother or with my brother cos | 1:08:28 | 1:08:30 | |
I mean I've lost my mum and I've lost my dad and I've | 1:08:30 | 1:08:32 | |
lost my uncle and I've lost my cousins, I've lost a lot of friends. | 1:08:32 | 1:08:36 | |
I mean, so I need to know who I've got in my corner. | 1:08:36 | 1:08:40 | |
I got all my rocks in a bag of not guilty, | 1:08:40 | 1:08:42 | |
that's where my rocks are at you know, that's where my heart's at, | 1:08:42 | 1:08:45 | |
that's where I've got planned and my plan's all involve Guy being | 1:08:45 | 1:08:49 | |
out of jail. So if he's guilty it's like, everything that I've | 1:08:49 | 1:08:53 | |
thought up until this point is wrong, everything that I had | 1:08:53 | 1:08:57 | |
planned, everything that I want to do, wrong. I have to start all over. | 1:08:57 | 1:09:01 | |
And I, I mean I don't think I can do it. I don't know, I'm not saying | 1:09:03 | 1:09:06 | |
I'm going to go kill myself, but if Guy gets found guilty, I don't expect | 1:09:06 | 1:09:10 | |
great things for myself I really don't. I know it's bad to say but... | 1:09:10 | 1:09:14 | |
Just going to be hard for me to turn it around. | 1:09:16 | 1:09:19 | |
I've been holding it together good after mamma died, and I've | 1:09:19 | 1:09:21 | |
been holding it together good after they got killed, I haven't really | 1:09:21 | 1:09:24 | |
had a major breakdown and today could be the day that I fall off. | 1:09:24 | 1:09:28 | |
CAR RADIO PLAYS | 1:09:28 | 1:09:30 | |
# Death she must have been your will | 1:09:33 | 1:09:37 | |
# A bone beneath the reaper's veil... | 1:09:39 | 1:09:42 | |
# With your voice my belly sunk... # | 1:09:44 | 1:09:48 | |
Juror number 3. | 1:09:49 | 1:09:51 | |
Verdict. Jury said come on in. | 1:09:54 | 1:09:57 | |
I was juror number 4 in the Guy Heinze trial. | 1:10:02 | 1:10:05 | |
MUSIC: "Demon Host" By Timber Timbre | 1:10:05 | 1:10:11 | |
I am juror number 32 of the Guy Heinze trial. | 1:10:24 | 1:10:28 | |
Are you able to cut the 6.30 package for 6? | 1:10:31 | 1:10:33 | |
Three, two, one. | 1:10:33 | 1:10:35 | |
Juror number 8. | 1:10:35 | 1:10:37 | |
I was juror number 11 in the Guy Heinze Jr trial. | 1:10:48 | 1:10:53 | |
All rise for jury, please. | 1:11:16 | 1:11:18 | |
Foreman, have you reached a verdict? | 1:11:27 | 1:11:29 | |
Yes, sir. | 1:11:29 | 1:11:31 | |
Is that verdict unanimous? | 1:11:31 | 1:11:32 | |
Yes, sir. | 1:11:32 | 1:11:36 | |
In the state of Georgia versus Guy William Heinze, | 1:11:54 | 1:11:57 | |
we the jury find as follows. | 1:11:57 | 1:12:00 | |
Count one on the charge of malice murder as alleged | 1:12:00 | 1:12:03 | |
and count one of the indictment, we find the defendant guilty. | 1:12:03 | 1:12:07 | |
Count two of the charge of malice murder as alleged | 1:12:07 | 1:12:11 | |
and count two of the indictment we find the defendant guilty. | 1:12:11 | 1:12:15 | |
Count three on the charge of malice murder as alleged | 1:12:15 | 1:12:19 | |
and count three of the indictment, we find the defendant guilty. | 1:12:19 | 1:12:23 | |
Count four on the charge of malice murder as alleged | 1:12:24 | 1:12:28 | |
and count four of the indictment we find the defendant guilty. | 1:12:28 | 1:12:31 | |
Count five on the charge of malice murder as alleged | 1:12:33 | 1:12:36 | |
and count five of the indictment we find the defendant guilty. | 1:12:36 | 1:12:40 | |
Count six on the charge of malice murder as alleged | 1:12:41 | 1:12:45 | |
and count six of the indictment we find the defendant guilty. | 1:12:45 | 1:12:49 | |
Fuck. | 1:12:50 | 1:12:51 | |
Count seven on the charge of malice murder we find the defendant guilty. | 1:12:52 | 1:12:57 | |
Count eight on the charge of malice murder | 1:12:58 | 1:13:01 | |
we find the defendant guilty, so say we all on this | 1:13:01 | 1:13:04 | |
the 25th day of October 2013 signed by foreperson. | 1:13:04 | 1:13:09 | |
This is a burning place, man, it's a burning place, dude, | 1:13:09 | 1:13:12 | |
what goes around comes around. | 1:13:12 | 1:13:14 | |
Tyler tell me what you think right now, are you mad? | 1:13:14 | 1:13:17 | |
Are you mad? | 1:13:17 | 1:13:19 | |
Man, this ain't justice, this ain't right. Everybody sat in that | 1:13:19 | 1:13:22 | |
court, you all sat through the same trial I sat through. | 1:13:22 | 1:13:26 | |
All of you all sat there and heard what you all heard. | 1:13:26 | 1:13:29 | |
-I didn't see it coming. -You never know what the jury is going to do right. | 1:13:29 | 1:13:33 | |
Unbelievable. | 1:13:34 | 1:13:36 | |
There wasn't one thing that I said that's it, that you can't get past | 1:13:50 | 1:13:53 | |
this, there wasn't one thing that did that but there were multiple | 1:13:53 | 1:13:56 | |
things. I was really disappointed that there was not a good alibi. | 1:13:56 | 1:14:00 | |
Someone would have seen him come or go at some point. | 1:14:00 | 1:14:05 | |
The 911 call. | 1:14:05 | 1:14:07 | |
When he was screaming on the phone that my family had been | 1:14:07 | 1:14:10 | |
beaten to death. | 1:14:10 | 1:14:12 | |
You can't take it back, how do you know they were beaten to death? | 1:14:12 | 1:14:15 | |
First people that came in there - police - they thought they were shot. | 1:14:15 | 1:14:19 | |
I think the gun was another big thing cos | 1:14:21 | 1:14:24 | |
he said that the gun was stolen, it really wasn't stolen. | 1:14:24 | 1:14:27 | |
For him to lie to say it was stolen. | 1:14:27 | 1:14:30 | |
There was lots of holes and lies and things that didn't add up. | 1:14:30 | 1:14:34 | |
We all said walking into the deliberation - if we're deciding | 1:14:34 | 1:14:38 | |
whether the police department made mistakes it's an open | 1:14:38 | 1:14:40 | |
and shut case but that's not what we're here to decide. | 1:14:40 | 1:14:42 | |
There were too many things that I just couldn't answer. | 1:14:42 | 1:14:45 | |
I think the blood on the clothing was one thing our jury | 1:14:45 | 1:14:48 | |
couldn't really get past and that was... | 1:14:48 | 1:14:51 | |
That was the main thing to me... was he had on gym shorts, | 1:14:51 | 1:14:56 | |
he didn't get the blood stains that morning when he showed | 1:14:56 | 1:14:59 | |
up to the scene, that he had to have been there beforehand at some point. | 1:14:59 | 1:15:05 | |
At that point, the sentencing phase, you were ready to do it, were you? | 1:15:09 | 1:15:13 | |
We were definitely ready for, erm, myself included were | 1:15:13 | 1:15:16 | |
definitely ready to, to go to the next phase. | 1:15:16 | 1:15:19 | |
I definitely prepared myself through prayer, | 1:15:21 | 1:15:23 | |
I'm a very religious person you know, | 1:15:23 | 1:15:26 | |
I ultimately feel that...that we have an ultimate judge and we will | 1:15:26 | 1:15:30 | |
have to answer to him one day, but we are also required to abide by | 1:15:30 | 1:15:34 | |
the laws of the land and the laws of the state of Georgia, erm, obviously | 1:15:34 | 1:15:38 | |
you know, the death penalty is something that is on the table. | 1:15:38 | 1:15:42 | |
Ladies and gentleman prior to your deliberation this morning, | 1:15:47 | 1:15:51 | |
parties, that is both sides entered into an agreement. | 1:15:51 | 1:15:53 | |
That agreement was the, | 1:15:53 | 1:15:56 | |
the dismissal of one of your fellow jurors and the agreement that | 1:15:56 | 1:16:01 | |
the state's removal of the death penalty as an option of punishment. | 1:16:01 | 1:16:05 | |
It's almost a, a sense of relief, a sense of relief that, | 1:16:25 | 1:16:28 | |
that we, that we weren't going to have to make that | 1:16:28 | 1:16:31 | |
decision about the man's life, that it was taken out, | 1:16:31 | 1:16:34 | |
that part of it at least was taken out of our hands. | 1:16:34 | 1:16:36 | |
I felt like I was, erm... | 1:16:36 | 1:16:39 | |
Something you know, was took from us | 1:16:39 | 1:16:42 | |
that to finish up what we were doing. | 1:16:42 | 1:16:44 | |
I mean we'd done all this through two weeks, | 1:16:44 | 1:16:47 | |
we should make our own mind up about what he would be sentenced to. | 1:16:47 | 1:16:50 | |
They won't be able to kill him... | 1:16:50 | 1:16:52 | |
That's what we've done, we've insulated him from death. | 1:16:58 | 1:17:01 | |
That's my big brother, in my heart of hearts I thought | 1:17:08 | 1:17:13 | |
when I left Georgia, I thought Guy was coming home with us. | 1:17:13 | 1:17:16 | |
He was going to get to be there for Christmas, Thanksgiving... | 1:17:19 | 1:17:23 | |
and I had that in my mind you know, I had that set like, it was | 1:17:23 | 1:17:29 | |
there, like that's going to happen, I know it's going to happen | 1:17:29 | 1:17:31 | |
and it's not happening. | 1:17:31 | 1:17:33 | |
I was wrong. | 1:17:34 | 1:17:36 | |
Welcome to Death Penalty Clinic | 1:17:52 | 1:17:54 | |
at the University of Houston Law Centre. | 1:17:54 | 1:17:56 | |
You will be working on real life cases. | 1:17:56 | 1:17:59 | |
Police are searching for a prison guard's killer. | 1:17:59 | 1:18:02 | |
I don't think I deserve to die for something I didn't do. | 1:18:02 | 1:18:05 | |
If he found a way to weasel his way out of the death penalty, | 1:18:05 | 1:18:07 | |
that would not be right. | 1:18:07 | 1:18:09 | |
You are their last and only hope. | 1:18:09 | 1:18:12 | |
I really want to save his life, if it's possible. | 1:18:12 | 1:18:14 |