Episode 2 Mr v Mrs: Call the Mediator

We met at work.

We just clicked, something in us clicked.

He was nice-looking.

We just really loved each other.

Where did all that go so sadly wrong?

When people come to see us, their relationships are over.

They're in dispute about the most fundamental things in their lives.

All right, are we ready to go through?

This is Britain's hidden world of family mediation.

The house was going to be our financial security

for when we sold it and downsized later on in life.

He comes back, spends time with the kids and he disappears back to his

new woman, and I've had enough of it.

It's just pure bitterness and that's why she's doing it.

Why should I put up with somebody who's acting like that?

For a year, we follow the work of National Family Mediation,

who try to help feuding couples to reach agreement.

Did I leave with any jewellery? Did I leave with any jewellery?

-That's all I'm asking.

-I'm asking you.

They need to find a compromise...

20,000's nothing.

I'm not just having that.

..to avoid a costly court battle.

Why can't you come to London?

Why should a two-year-old child have to travel?

Are you able to stay in the room and continue this...?

-Yeah, I am.

-She's going to sit there and make snidey remarks.

Hello, there. My name is Chris.

You left us a voicemail stating you were interested

in our mediation services.

People are coming to you in a time of stress, heightened anxiety.

They've got a lot going on.

They're being asked to sit in a room and negotiate

with somebody that they

perhaps don't respect and really don't want to be talking to.

Have a seat.

'The atmosphere in the room can be quite charged.'

What's going to happen is I'm going to go and get Lizzie in a minute.

-Yeah.

-You'll both be next to each other.

How does that feel for you?

Well, I ain't seen her for months so I don't know.

When was the last time you saw her?

March.

-All right. So what I'm going to do is go and get her.

-Yeah, no problem.

-So a couple of deep breaths and I'll be back.

-All right.

'Our relationship finished six months ago.

'We couldn't agree on terms about our son.'

You can't reason with her. She is argumentative.

You can't do it.

Come in. Are you OK to sit there?

-Yeah, that's fine.

-Do you want to hang your...?

-There's a chair back there.

-Yeah, thanks, Irene.

'We're here because of him, not cos of me.'

The thing about Richie is he needs someone to blame.

But never himself.

Lizzie and Richie have come to mediation to try to solve a problem.

Where will Richie see their son now that they live

almost 100 miles apart?

So, we're here to talk about Teddy.

-That's what you both call him, yeah?

-Yes.

-OK.

Remind me, how old is Teddy?

-18 months.

-Ooh, lovely age.

So I don't mind who talks to me first.

You're both going to talk to me.

Liz can go first if she wants.

Basically, I'm here just to get...

I did try to make an arrangement with Richie,

which he wasn't happy with,

which is why we are here today.

So, basically, all I want is for that to be, sort of, set up.

-I'm not...

-It's about setting up an arrangement for Teddy.

Yeah, so that nobody can say,

you stopped me doing this or you didn't allow it

or you put barriers up.

Which I don't think I have.

And for you, Richie, what do you want to talk about?

My thing is, cos I live in London and Ted lives in Isle of Wight,

my issue is, I want him with me in London

and all my family should see him.

So we want to look at the extended family.

My whole family miss him like anything.

They ain't seen him for three, four months.

I hear what Richie's saying,

that he misses his son and all he wants is his son,

but he's had every opportunity to see him.

-I don't understand.

-Lie.

-Richie, I feel that you're...

-I'll let you talk in a minute.

I'm not a liar, actually. I'm not a liar.

I said, come to the Isle of Wight.

He could have come and seen him but he keeps saying,

"All I want to do is see my son."

Well, then don't go out on a weekend and maybe you could have seen him.

I think that Lizzie never thought that I would move back to London.

I honestly do believe that.

She could probably say, "No, no, I didn't care."

-Thank you.

-Here we go.

-Cheers, mate.

But I honestly think that she thinks

that I shouldn't have left her down there.

In 2014, Lizzie and Richie moved from London

to start a new life on the Isle of Wight, near Lizzie's parents.

I made a go of it because Lizzie wanted to make a go of it.

There's less worries down there for children than in London,

I have to say that. But if there's no work and you're arguing

all the time, what are you meant to do?

So, obviously, I'm going to move back to where I know.

Lovely, cheers, thanks a lot, mate, thank you.

And I don't understand why Lizzie's putting a block on it

where he's not allowed to come to my family or my mum's house

and I can't have him. I don't know why there's such a fuss about it,

if I'm going to be totally honest.

You can't just expect a young child to be able to go somewhere

for a certain amount, say two weeks, three weeks.

He has to have contact, really,

on a very regular basis for Teddy to benefit from spending that time,

to build a relationship again with his dad, so I think Richie

does need to see him very regularly, as in every other week.

And in my eyes,

if I had to go to the Isle of Wight every weekend to see Teddy,

if the tables were turned, I would do it.

Liz, it is a lot of money to come down here,

stay in a hotel on the Isle of Wight.

Isle of Wight is the most expensive place to go in the UK.

It's a nightmare.

He'll tell you that he split up with me...by the way.

But I think it was probably, let's just say, mutual,

more mutual my side.

He wouldn't literally do anything in the house.

"Why don't you do the garden?" "Na."

Not doing anything for Teddy,

not pulling his weight but thinking he was doing the world cos he had to

watch him for an hour or two.

Wow. Big deal.

We had to split up. There was no other way.

So, he moved back.

He was going to get his own place, I don't know what happened there,

and he ended up back at his mum's.

I don't want Ted to go down to London,

stay at Richie's mum's and Richie's mum look after him when Richie,

"All right, Ted," or Richie might give him his dinner

but then I'm going out with my mates. No.

I don't want that.

It always seems it has to be on her terms and no way.

And that's what I always feel. There's no budging whatsoever.

You know why, Richie? Because you bullied me for years

and I'm sick of it, and now, I'm standing up for myself.

-Have I asked this question?

-Hold on. Now I'm standing up for myself.

I'm standing up for myself because I can.

Liz, you can do what you want, love.

But at the end of the day, you do not budge.

You're not bullying me into doing something, you're not.

If I wanted to see my son as much as you're saying,

then I would do what was necessary.

I am, but why, at the end of the day,

I'm coming to the Isle of Wight?

I also want him with me in London, you know?

# I walk along the city streets you used to walk along with me

# And every step I take recalls how much in love we used to be

# Oh, how can I forget you?

# When there is always something there to remind me

# Always something there to remind me... #

'We had a lot of history together. We laughed a lot, we cried a lot.

'We argued a lot, you know, like most couples do.

'You think that you're in a partnership for life.'

You don't never expect that 5, 10, 15 years,

20 years down the line that you fall out of love with somebody and that

you decide that you don't want to live with them no more.

All right?

There was no love. There was no love between us.

And it got worse as we were going on.

I just felt unhappy and I just said it.

"All right, I'm moving out. I've had enough."

She packed all me clothes and I was manhandled out.

She literally wants me

as if I don't exist.

When people break up, they're often left with a whole set of tricky

problems to solve.

And as a mediator,

the first thing I need to do is to work out what each of them wants to

talk about. And it's not always the same thing.

How's Josh?

-He's all right.

-Is he good?

-Behaving himself?

-Yeah.

This is the first time Mandy and Peter have seen each other

since they split up six years ago.

-You must be Peter. I'm Lesley.

-Hello, Lesley.

-Pleased to meet you.

-Mandy. Would you like to come in?

-Yeah.

Peter's problem is getting to see their teenage son, Josh.

Mandy's issue is that Peter still has a claim to half of their flat.

I brought it forward to come about the property that we

both co-own at the moment.

OK. And, Peter, is that what you're here for?

I've come about getting access to the son,

the property and personal belongings.

OK. If I put all of those up...

..as an agenda...

Me and Peter, we met in June of 1991.

We kind of courted, as you do then, back in the olden days.

We bought this property and then set up home together, hoping it would be

forever. And then a few years later,

you know, Josh came along.

I thought our family was complete then, but things change.

Peter walked out on

10 February 2010.

And that was the last time I saw him.

At the end of the day, Peter is on the mortgage.

His name's legally binding there.

If I died, Joshua could then have nothing.

Peter could legally come in, take it all away.

I'm asking him just to sign the property over in my name,

and that is it.

I'm not asking it for selfish reasons.

I'm looking at it for our son.

I've come here today to ensure that our son has a secure future and to

ensure that he's got a roof over his head

and that he can continue living there.

-And for you, Peter?

-The same.

I might have left the property, but he's living there with Amanda

and I agree with.

But if Mandy wishes to sell the property at any point,

we were in a relationship, therefore it's 50-50 at the time.

OK, I left, that is irrelevant to the point,

but the property is in joint name.

We were together for 19 years.

She was good fun. She always loved to have a laugh

and a joke and it was great.

It was like a happy relationship.

We actually moved in on February 1998.

To get the money together, we were doing two jobs.

I was doing a curry run, delivering people's curries,

plus a full-time job.

Mandy was doing her job, plus she was doing a little cleaning job

in a health fitness centre.

We worked hard to get it.

That flat was bought as our retirement.

Mandy and Peter's investment

was a small former council flat in Wimbledon.

Just around the corner from the world-famous tennis courts.

They bought it for £50,000,

but today it's worth around 350,000.

Why should I just turn around to her and say, "OK, it's yours, bye-bye"?

When I got with Mandy, it was a 50-50 relationship.

All relationships are meant to be 50-50, Peter.

-OK.

-Until one walks out.

One walked out for reasons we're not going to talk about at the moment.

So, it feels to you like when Peter left,

he left behind any rights he had.

I don't want him stealing our life, or my life, should I say.

I'm asking him nicely to sign it over and walk away.

We know that mediation's not easy.

That's what coming in and having a chat to us is about,

and it's working out what actually does make the most sense, you know,

for you and for the whole situation and moving on from there, really.

Mediation is voluntary,

so we're not here to impose solutions on people.

Our aim is to give them the space and the opportunity to find a way

forward for themselves.

All right, so, let's start to work on some of these issues, then,

that you've brought to the table.

My issue is that you've got to, I believe, that...

Cos when my mum and dad split up -

Lizzie's never had her mum and dad split up so she don't know.

My mum and dad split up. It was the worst thing.

But then on the other hand,

I know people that have split up and are friends with their

ex-partners for their kids' sake. Their kids are brilliant.

Which is what we're trying...

That's what I'm trying to say.

We need to build bridges ourself when we see each other.

Not sitting here now. I mean, when we see each other,

do you know what I mean, Liz?

Maybe if you can just be civil and I don't get abuse

because he's angry that day or he's annoyed with me or, you know,

I don't feel I should put up with that,

because I don't reciprocate what he does to me.

I don't do it back to him because I don't see the point in it.

At the end of the day, Liz, yeah.

It was raw, so we were arguing,

we couldn't stand the sight of each other, both ways.

But now I'm not like that.

I don't need to be bitter towards Liz.

I understand Richie is frustrated.

Look, I wouldn't be human if I didn't understand that.

I'm happy she said that cos that's all it is.

I must admit, I've got a wicked tongue, I ain't going to lie.

In that case, you know, I understand that, but in all these years,

and I've told him even before Teddy come along,

you need to channel that frustration in a different way because

the way he goes about things makes things worse.

So I think maybe we have to look at this in stages and hopefully,

with whatever you start with now,

that's not going to be how it's going to be forever because

he has two parents, which means he has two homes,

which means he should spend time in those two homes.

-Yeah.

-So what I'm asking is,

can you both give and take a little bit now

and maybe if you do some of

the giving now, what I would expect of you, Lizzie,

-is that you do some of the giving perhaps in the next step.

-Yeah.

So in terms of this first stage, what might it look like?

Well, basically, a first stage is going to have to be on the island,

isn't it? Cos, obviously, that's what Liz wants, so that's the...

The first stage has got to be on Lizzie's rules, basically.

Not rules, but, like, agreement,

and I'll have to go to the Isle of Wight.

How often do you think, realistically, that is affordable?

Realistically, Isle of Wight, once a month.

-Once a month.

-And that's realistically.

-Yeah.

For me and for Teddy, I'd need Richie to prove

that it isn't going...

Teddy isn't going to be dropped because he's got something to do

or he's going out. Please, Richie, you do do that.

How many times would Richie need to

do this before we can review it and

then start to look at stage two?

I think, it couldn't just be two times, I don't think that's enough.

-OK.

-I think it would probably maybe be four times.

-And you're saying you'd...

-I'm happy with that. Four times is happy.

I'm more than happy with four times to come down the Isle of Wight.

Let me try and squeeze it on this same piece of paper.

Here's a thing. First day, I come down next Saturday.

You want me to put that down as a definite agreement, then?

-But only for the day, like, it will be a day one, yeah.

-Yeah.

-Lovely.

I asked you to either sign the property off, OK?

I will take over all the debt and you walk away from it, right?

-Yeah.

-Or you back pay the last six years and you continue paying

half the mortgage and the cost of the maintenance as well.

So, Peter left six years ago, you've been paying

-the mortgage and the bills since then?

-Yeah.

I never expected it would come to this.

He may tell you a different story, but I think that he felt neglected.

He said that he wasn't happy,

that I spend more time with my family and not him.

And on this occasion, my mum was taken ill and rushed into hospital.

I remember standing in the kitchen where we are now and him telling us

we need to talk, and I turned round at this point and I said to him,

"You know, you...you know, my mum's ill.

"She's in hospital, you know. I just... You know,

"don't be so selfish."

And then he told me that he wanted to take time out

and for me to decide what I wanted - my family or him.

I then packed a suitcase for him,

put it out the front door and asked him to leave.

Not once since the separation have I ever not paid the mortgage.

It's a lot of money that he'll have to pay, a lot of money.

There is no way I pay maintenance.

I pay my rent, I also play travel.

And my wages would not cover paying

towards the mortgage. I am not asking for 50-50.

I am not asking for 50-50.

-OK.

-If Mandy sells the property, then, as I said, we will talk again.

OK. Any other options?

She buys me out.

And how am I going to buy you out?

I'm a single mum with a child.

I would have to take out another mortgage.

The debt we took up when you was out of work, remember that, Peter.

Hang on. 50-50 when we were together.

-You were out of work, Peter.

-We were 50-50.

-How many times was you out of...?

-I stood by you, you stood by me.

You never stood by me. I was never out of work.

I didn't say you were.

-I said...

-27 years I've been at my job.

How many jobs have you had in that 27 years?

'I'm being punished.'

I'm being punished for walking out on her, for leaving her.

She wants that flat, but I don't want her just taking it away from me

and saying, "Right, you don't exist. You're gone. You're history."

It's the only thing I've got to keep hold of my son.

I feel that if I lose the flat, then I'll lose him

and I lose everything and it will all be gone.

If Peter was to say none of your three options work for him and you

were to say none of Peter's two options work for you...

Then there's no starting point for negotiation.

Something has to shift.

# Love and marriage Love and marriage

# Go together like a horse and carriage

# This I tell you, brother

# You can't have one without the other. #

A marriage is something that you should want to keep going.

When you try, you get nowhere.

You can only get beaten down so many times before - a phrase,

if the horse is dead, get off.

When he's sold the house...

we obviously need to decide who's going to get what.

I think it just all boils down to what he's willing to give

for me and the kids to survive.

Yvonne and her husband Alan have two young children.

They're divorcing after 13 years together.

Couples who are divorcing often come here because they're struggling

to divide their finances.

They need to be able to afford to live separately,

but there simply isn't enough money for life to go on as it did before.

Alan and Yvonne need to make decisions quickly.

Their house is about to be sold,

but they can't agree how to split the cash.

So, have you both started to think about

where you are going to be living

and how much it's going to cost you to live there?

Well, I've got a short-term option, but it is a short-term option

while we sort things out, is that I should go and live with my mother.

-OK.

-But, in the long-term...

Well, I don't know where I'm going to live.

We've got a four-bedroom house and knowing that you're going to lose it

is heartbreaking. That's why...

That's why I think we've stayed where we are.

For the last two years,

Alan and Yvonne had been living separate lives in the same house.

Sleeping in separate bedrooms.

We're at either ends of the landing upstairs with the two kids

in the middle and that's, basically, what we've been doing for

the last couple of years as sort of living arrangements.

I was always hopeful that, yes, we could work things out.

But there was no

willingness on the other side...

..so there's no point.

Yvonne, what's your position in terms of your income?

Currently, or when I become a single parent?

When you... Yes, when you physically separate,

what will your financial position be?

I won't have a job, cos I'll be moving away.

The only thing will be benefits.

OK. So bearing that in mind, same question to you.

What are your accommodation costs going to be?

If I get the money from the split of the house, then I won't have a

-mortgage, I'll be able to buy the house outright.

-Mm-hm.

So that's what you'll be looking for,

-to buy a property mortgage-free.

-Yeah.

Well, my priority is obviously the kids.

It's got to this point now, I don't want my kids growing up in this environment.

We never do anything as a family.

We're showing them all the wrong things.

Obviously, they're going to come with me.

I need to be able to house them properly, without any hassle or strain or stress.

Yvonne set out to find an affordable new home for herself

and the two children, Lewis and Brooke.

And she thinks she's found one.

But it's in Somerset,

over 100 miles from where the family currently live.

I would like to stay local, but it's just not possible.

Anywhere within the Surrey,

Hampshire area is just going to be too expensive.

We found a house, they like the house,

they've already picked out their bedrooms.

They know we're not that far away from beaches and stuff.

It's a completely different lifestyle.

Well...I'm not totally happy with it,

but I can see it's a fait accompli

for reasons of buying the house that you can afford.

The problem being with that is that

I have to up sticks and move as well,

because I can't be leaving myself three hours

each way on a Friday and a Sunday.

Three hours there and back?

Well, it's three hours to get down there, isn't it?

No, that's if you're stuck in traffic.

Well, what's the chances of sitting in traffic on a Friday?

Or a Sunday?

Probably quite high.

Past Stonehenge.

I found a detour.

Right.

It needs to be sorted because it's been going on for so long now.

We've got to cash buy it, ready to move in.

I've got a house, I'm ready to buy

and I need a certain figure to be able

to buy the house outright.

The difficult part of it is making Alan understand that

I'm doing it for the kids. I'm not doing it for me.

Mandy and Peter's discussions about their flat have reached a stalemate.

Leslie has suggested they try to make progress on one of the issues

Peter wanted to discuss.

I'd like to know about his personal effects that he's asking for.

Is it a watch? There's an Omega watch.

-Right.

-There's a...

There's a fob watch that Ray bought me before he died.

-Right.

-There's other items like CDs, there's books, there's cassettes.

Peter, after six years,

do you think I'd leave a shrine of your stuff there?

When we got together, I mean, for ten years or so,

it was a happy atmosphere.

Things started changing when she was pregnant.

She became quite obsessed and domineering.

After Joshua was born, she got worse.

As time went on, the love was gone.

I felt I wasn't wanted around.

I was just a...

I just was the lodger.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not jealous.

But I felt that she just wanted her Josh and her family.

That is it. End of subject.

And I had to get out.

-What about the jewellery?

-What jewellery?

Right. Exactly. Did I leave with any jewellery?

-You had...

-Did I leave with any jewellery?

Did I leave with any jewellery? That's all I'm asking.

I'm asking you because you knew where it was.

-It was not there.

-It was in your...

OK. It was in your jewellery box,

in the blue jewellery box with a crown on it,

the Omega watch, which was in the black tin.

-Yeah. And where is the black tin?

-I've got no idea.

It was in the bottom of the cupboard and I didn't take that.

-The black tin, you had the key to it.

-I didn't.

Cos it had your personal bits in there.

That black tin is not there.

Right. The tin was in the bedroom, in the cupboard.

I've been waiting for this.

I've been waiting for this,

because I knew for a fact she'd say that.

You were nodding when Peter

was talking about watches and fobs and things.

Do you still have those?

-I do not. I know for a fact he took everything.

-That's not true.

-I haven't got nothing that belongs to him in the house.

-Right.

-So...

-Any personal effects that were left, like bits of clothing,

were thrown years ago.

The property was left there. She told me I couldn't have it.

-Well, that's your word against mine, isn't it?

-That's it.

-And only one of

us is telling the truth, so if you want to be petty...

-And it would be you, wouldn't it?

-Yeah, well.

-Exactly.

-OK.

So, that doesn't feel like there's any progress to be made here.

-No.

-I knew there wouldn't be.

-So did I.

Two months have now passed

since Richie and Lizzie agreed an initial plan

that could lead to their son Teddy staying with Richie in London.

Oh, Liz, I'm not arguing with you, I'm not having this.

I'm not arguing with people no more and I can't be bothered with this.

-I'm not arguing with you.

-It seems you want arguments.

-No, Richie,

what you're not understanding is I'm not arguing with you.

-Hello.

-Hi.

-Hello.

-How are you?

-Have I interrupted something?

-Only an argument.

-That's what I thought. That was good timing.

So other than the little tete-a-tete...

It's been very good.

-..how are things?

-Yeah.

-Things have been really good.

-Good.

-Richie's been down to see Teddy in... Last...

Or three weeks ago -

I can't remember how long ago it was now - he came to stay.

-I went to stay at my mum's, obviously.

-Oh, right.

So I let him come to spend a couple of days with Teddy.

-Lovely.

-And he looked after Teddy in my house...

-Lovely.

-..on his own with him, so...

-How was that?

-Very good, yeah, brilliant.

-Yeah, I can imagine.

Fantastic. So it sounds as though things are moving

-in the right direction.

-Yes, it is, definitely.

-Yeah.

I've been going down the Isle of Wight

to see my son and come to an arrangement.

I go down there four times and this is my fourth time now.

It's been going well.

It's been really good, yeah. It's been really good.

I'm going to mention that today about seeing...

About having him at the end of October, up in London.

But, hopefully, she agrees with it.

I've kept to all the things. I've come down.

I've accepted everything, so I think it's about time she gave me a little

bit of leeway, sort of thing.

So, in terms of stage two,

what we said was that both of you

will present some proposals in respect

of what you think should happen next.

I don't mind who talks to me first.

-Neither do I. If Richie wants to go first.

-I'll let Liz talk.

Let Liz talk. I'm fine. Go on, Liz.

OK. The thing is, I'm looking at it from a completely...

The perspective I'm looking from is what is practical.

I need to see consistency with him with Teddy

and building a proper relationship. At the moment, he's so young,

I don't want too much disruption for him.

He doesn't travel really a lot with me anywhere, because when they're

that sort of age, it is a big upheaval,

their sleeping patterns and things like that.

Hold on, Richie. You will get to talk.

And he knows this is the truth, because I don't.

I mean, I'm going to my sister's for my birthday.

I haven't been to see her for I don't know how many months.

Why can't I have him, then, in London, if you're going to your sister's?

Right, because it's my birthday and I want my son with me.

-I'm the main parent.

-I'm not talking about that weekend.

You ain't the main... Whoa, whoa. You ain't the main parent.

He's half-half. He's my son as much as your son.

-But he lives with me.

-Main parent, I don't agree with that.

-So let's change the terminology.

-You ain't the main parent.

-Well, I'll be regarded as the main carer.

-You're both parents, but you... Yes.

-Do you know what?

I'm done with this, all right? Seriously.

I'm not doing this, cos this is getting on my...

Seriously, I've come here and it's just bickering.

I'm not bickering.

-I can't deal this, man.

-What I'm going to say, Richie,

is let's just separate you off for a minute.

-I can't deal with this...

-Let's just separate you for a minute.

Liz, it's the same thing what we done when we're together,

just bicking heads, and I don't do that no more, love.

-Come with me.

-Neither do I, Richie, and I never have.

-I don't do it.

I thought you had your anger under control, but you clearly haven't.

Lizzie, if you just wait here for a minute.

Richie, do you want to just come with me for a minute?

-Seriously. Anger control...

-I'll be back in a tick.

-All right.

-Richie, shall we go in here for a minute?

-Yes, please.

I'm walking out the room, defusing the situation, and she thinks

I'm getting angry and like the old times, cos I did get angry with her. I ain't going to lie, I did.

But at the end of the day, I'm not that person no more.

I haven't been that person for months and that's why I walked out

the room, cos I'd rather not row with her and she still thinks

I'm still the same old person and I'm not.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm easy. I'm not.

I must admit I can be a bad boyfriend, or husband,

whatever you want to call it. I'm not saying that.

-How are you?

-I'm fine, Irene.

I just... You know what? That, I expect.

That's nothing. That's mild, believe me, because I'm surprised I didn't

get called every name under the sun. That I can deal with, no problem.

What Richie needs to understand is I've opened my home to this man,

who totally doesn't deserve me even doing that.

A lot of people will say, you know, he's really nice, he's really funny.

But then, once you get to know him,

you know, the real him is a completely different person.

I wanted to help him.

I wanted to help Richie cos, you know,

I don't believe everyone is bad and that's it.

I think people are the way they are for certain reasons and I try to...

I felt a bit sorry for him and I tried to help him.

-INTERVIEWER:

-Why did you and Richie split up?

Because of his behaviour.

Because, you know, there's a lot of things that I won't... Like I say,

he's not here to defend himself and I won't go into all that,

but it's mainly because of his behaviour.

I had a lot of issues in my life from a very young age.

But I'll be the first to admit that.

But...I'm changing that.

I do voluntary work for drug and alcohol recovery up here.

-INTERVIEWER:

-Is that because you had problems in the past like that?

Mmm. Which I don't want to talk about myself.

It's not about me, but, yeah, I did have problems with things like that, yeah.

Yeah. But she thinks I'm always the same person,

going to be the same person.

Which, you can't win with someone like that. They're not going to give

you a little chance to change, then you can't win with someone like that.

That's what I mean by can't win with her.

You can't cos she won't let me win. Cos she won't let me change.

Well, she don't think I'm going to change.

When Richie proves to me after a little, you know...

I think it'd take even up to a year of consistently good behaviour

for me to think, "Actually, I trust him now."

I'd rather it be solid, built on something solid.

Come in, Richie. Have a seat.

So, I've heard both of you on your own and how you feel,

and you're both so passionate about this little boy, you know,

-he is so lucky, cos...

-He is.

..he clearly has two parents that love him...

-Yeah.

-..so very, very much.

What a lucky little soldier to have you two, but it's now about finding

-a way of putting some of that passion into a constructive plan for him.

-Yeah.

I'm going to stop you for one minute.

Richie, let's hear your voice first.

Yeah. I'm happy going down the Isle of Wight.

I've got no issues with that.

But my family miss out.

I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about the end of next month.

The end of October. All I want is my boy to be...

to be with my boy, do you know? Cos Lizzie has her boy.

I want my boy to be with me, you know what I mean? That's my boy, you know?

I'm getting upset now, you know what I mean?

-I don't want you to reply just yet.

-No, yes, fine.

-I want to write

some of that down and that will give you time to compose yourself

-and you time to think about what Richie has just said.

-Yeah.

And Lizzie thinks I'm the old person as well and that's another thing,

that she thinks I'm still the same Richie when we were together.

I was an arsehole, admittedly, but I'm not that person no more,

at the end of the day, seriously. Until she sees that...

Do you know what I mean? I can't do nothing. I can't win.

# The sun is out

# The sky is blue

# There's not a cloud to spoil the view

# But it's raining

# Raining in my heart. #

I want to see my son.

That's all this is all about. This is all I've come for.

I didn't want to talk about property.

I didn't want to talk about anything else at the moment.

But the question is, can we make some progress?

The ball's in her court.

When we first went through all of this,

the original decision was that

he was to have him on a Wednesday afternoon, after school,

and on a day on the weekend, and he refused, stating that he

was working on Wednesday and that he worked with chemicals and he was

unable to get a shower to be able to come and spend some time with Josh.

He wanted every weekend and there's also, I'm entitled to spend some

quality time with Josh as well, so I said no to it.

A woman scorned is a very dangerous thing

and it is getting that way that...

OK, she wants me out of her life, OK.

But she wants me, literally, out of her life, out of Joshua's life.

Joshua's hers and we had a lot of rows over it.

I wanted to have fun.

I wanted to go away camping.

Me and Joshua on our own.

I wasn't allowed to.

I wasn't allowed to do anything like that.

I mean, my Joshua is the apple of my eye.

He always was.

Excuse me.

Typical this would happen.

Excuse me.

Erm...

I've seen my son once...

in six years.

When it comes to the child, I just want to be able...

-His name's Joshua.

-OK.

When I want to see Joshua,

what I want Mandy to do is just tell me what to do,

when to pick him up, when to drop him off - fine.

Other people manage to do it.

-Why can't we?

-How would you like to sort out Joshua?

She would like me not to be seeing him.

Yeah, truthfully.

I don't want him fluttering in and out of Josh's life.

He's asked questions.

As a child, he wanted to know where his dad was.

I told him that his dad was unhappy, in an unhappy place

and he's going to find himself,

and one day, he'll come back and look for him.

The last time he saw Joshua was in the middle of May 2010.

He took him out for a little while and brought him back quite late.

In that time we've been apart,

Joshua has had two birthday cards and a Christmas card and promises of

presents were followed, but they never did.

He doesn't expect anything from his dad now because of it and he doesn't

hear from him neither, so...

Where do you think he'd be at with being in touch with his dad?

That's something you would have to ask Josh,

because whatever I would say,

Peter would most probably turn around and say that I've

brainwashed him, or done something, as you can see.

But the question is, can we make some progress from here?

Maybe me seeing Josh?

Yeah, yeah.

That would be good.

Would that work for you, Peter?

-Fine.

-Cos what I'd probably do is say, you know,

"Your mum and dad both love you and they would really like to hear what you think."

So, what if he said he was angry with you, Peter,

and didn't want to see you?

We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

OK. I mean, that would clearly be a very hard thing to hear.

Of course it would.

Alan and Yvonne's progress depends on just one decision -

how much money Yvonne will get.

Who would like to present their proposals first?

Have you got a proposal that you'd like to present?

I would like, from the sale of the house, 205.

So you're proposing that the family home is sold and the equity that you

-receive from that, you would like to take 205,000.

-Mm-hm.

Selling their family home will give Alan and Yvonne over £300,000

to divide, but they bought it using £200,000

that Alan had saved before they met.

Yvonne never brought anything to the party

in terms of finance, house, whatever.

I strived over years to earn money to build up a fund of some sort

and then someone determines that

they're going to take more than half of that away from you.

Is that fair?

I had you down as 195.

Now, you've gone up ten grand.

Yeah. To keep myself afloat if I don't find a job.

-All right.

-That's all I want. I don't want anything else.

I don't want to dip into your pension,

-your life or anything like that.

-There's no pension!

Well, there you go, then. Lucky you.

Lucky...? What do you mean, lucky me?

Yvonne, my pension was based around the house.

The house was going to be our financial security

for when we sold it and downsized later on in life.

Right?

So, you don't want my pension,

you're taking that pension.

I never wanted to be a stay-at-home mum.

Our life stops as soon as we're pregnant.

The guy's life continues.

They don't understand what we do at home.

I suppose, over time, I just got fed up with the fact that I didn't feel

appreciated, so then I just started either ignoring him, or...

not talking to him properly or, you know...

Stuff I shouldn't have done.

He doesn't want to give me everything that he's got, which is fair enough.

But I need to be able to have a certain amount of money

to buy the house outright,

and to survive on until I get myself sorted down there.

If you went for 50-50,

you'd be looking at 168,000, 170,000.

-All right?

-Yeah.

That you've put nothing into.

All the money for the house in the first place

has come from me, prior to getting together, etc.

And haven't I said from the start of all this

that I'm sorry you're going to lose the house?

If I could walk away without having you lose the house

then I would, but we've had kids.

Yes, we've had kids.

And so when we were happily married,

what's yours was mine and what's mine was yours,

but now we're unhappily married,

it's gone to what's yours is yours and what's mine is...

-Not totally.

-Yeah.

-Anyway.

-Not totally, because if you look at the...

-the 50% of that anyway.

-You should be thinking about your children.

I am thinking about the children.

If I may say one thing, I think that I've already...

..over-compromised really, because I've allowed Richie...

-Yeah, but...

-Can I speak?

-Sorry, sorry, yeah.

I want consistency for a good while before I think, yeah, OK, he really,

really means it. And I don't think I'm unreasonable in asking for that.

I don't think... I honestly, honestly...

So let me stop you. Lizzie, are going to let Richie speak?

-Yeah, of course, sorry, yeah. Apologies.

-Your turn.

Do you know what? I've said what I wanted to say,

to be honest with you, and that's it. I can't,

I don't want to keep doing this, if I'm going to be honest.

And I just think it's so unfair. It's so unfair.

You think it's unfair. I think other things are unfair,

all right? And because you're not getting your own way,

this is what happens. If it was me...

Do you know what? I ain't coming on weekends.

So I'm not coming down to the Isle of Wight.

-OK, that's your choice.

-But you're making it hard for me, Liz.

-You're making it so hard for me.

-Let me stop you both for a minute.

-I'm not, I'm making it very easy.

-You are.

-Let me stop you both for a minute.

-You're making it hard for me, Liz.

You've both said what you want,

and what you want is very different,

but for both of you, is there any compromising to be done?

If I was to go to London, I would quite happily let Richie

have Teddy for the day or however long I was there for,

-and then take him back with me.

-OK. So that is making an offer,

doing something different to what you've already said.

It's not what you want, Richie,

but it's something else that's on the table.

Yeah, that's fine. That would be fine. Great.

So, you would be happy to accept that?

Yeah, for four hours, yeah, I accept having him for four hours, yeah.

Definitely. Definitely.

-It's called consequences of actions.

-When we was together, we said...

-Unfortunately. Consequences of actions.

-..that's the past.

Yeah, but this is the consequence, isn't it, of it?

You're putting a block on my family seeing him.

-No, I'm concerned about Ted's welfare.

-His welfare?

You know what? Seriously, that is me done here.

Forget about your family.

-Sorry, I'm done here.

-Why are you going?

-I'm done.

-It's building a relationship with you and Ted.

-I am done.

-I am done.

-That's a shame, because I bought him a nice book called My Daddy. What a shame.

Well, I'm done, Liz. I can't...

Yeah, because yet again you think it's about your family.

-OK.

-It is not about my family.

-You just sat there and said it.

OK, so, if you're done, let's just leave again.

I'll explain that to Ted, shall I?

This is why I'm doing what I'm doing, Richie.

Cos your true colours.

A leopard don't change his spots, yeah?

Surely you can see that.

You can see that, can't you?

No, you're not being unreasonable.

But what are you going to do?

Are you going to go to court?

What are you going to do to get to see your son?

I don't want you to walk out of here

with the passion that you've got

and then not be able to see your son.

What's the sense in that?

He is trying to change his life, and I applaud him.

I applaud anyone who tries to change their life.

But you have to actually change. You can't just say it.

You can't just do it for three weeks.

It's got to be forever. And mean it.

Cos the old Richie's still there. I just saw it not two minutes ago.

# One can wish upon a star

# Two can make that wish come true, yeah

# One can stand alone in the dark

# Two can make the light shine through

# It takes two, baby

# It takes two, baby

# Me and you

# Just takes two. #

Alan and Yvonne were hoping to complete their mediation today.

But their session is nearly over.

You're not a million miles away from reaching an agreement now.

Could Yvonne have that figure

or does that figure still need to change?

You got 205...

..so why has that 195 gone up to 205?

The house was 185.

-Yeah.

-Fees for the solicitor.

-Mmm.

So, wasn't that, like, ten grand?

And then, if I don't get a job when I'm down there straightaway,

what's going to pay the bills?

It's finding that balance.

Maybe I am going in there asking for too much.

Maybe I'm going in there asking too less, who knows?

If I moved into the house and something bad happens...

..you know, the washing machine breaks down,

I don't know, the roof leaks.

I'm not going to go out there and spend it on absolutely nothing.

Do I force the issue so much

that she's scraping together pennies to look after and bring up the kids?

But you've got to look at...

..the wellbeing of your kids

and the area your kids are growing up in.

I don't want my kids to suffer.

Do you need time to go away and think about this

rather than being asked to make a decision about it now?

If we're going to end up settling on 205...

..we're going to end up settling on 205.

If that's what it's going to end up being,

that's what it's going to end up being.

OK, good. So, what I'll do, then,

is just record the discussion that we've had today

and then send it out to you, and then if there's anything

that you both feel needs adding to that,

or any further discussion that you feel needs to be had,

we can do that.

But I do think you need to take some advice before we finalise things.

-Yep.

-Is that all right for both of you?

-Mm-hmm.

-Mm-hmm.

Success in mediation doesn't look the same for everyone.

Thanks, Yvonne, take care now.

For some people,

it's a written agreement to take to their solicitors

and then have made legally binding.

Thanks, Alan, you take care now. Goodbye.

For others, I think just starting to listen to each other

is an achievement in itself.

Five months after they started mediation,

Lizzie and Richie returned

to see if they could find a way to repair relations.

Is there any value in you both sitting in a room together

to talk about this?

Well, if she wants to.

What I need from both of you is to allow each other to speak...

-Yeah, course.

-..and not to interrupt.

-Yeah.

-And I will ensure that you have the opportunity to respond.

-Yeah.

Why can't you come to London?

-So, we're going to stop.

-Why should a two-year-old child have to travel?

Why can't you - you - travel instead of making Teddy get up...?

Like you don't stay at your Uncle Larry's. Come on, love.

-I don't go to London.

-OK.

-I'm the one who started this process.

-It's always on your terms, Liz.

-Because you're erratic.

-Who's erratic? You're erratic.

-You let him down.

-You're a nut job.

-Why am I a nut job?

-Let's try...

But you're not... There's no consistency in your behaviour.

This was Lizzie and Richie's last mediation meeting.

In the five months that followed,

Richie visited Teddy on the Isle of Wight once.

Teddy didn't go to stay with him in London.

Peter is still waiting to hear whether Josh would like to see him.

They're going to find out if Joshua wants to see me.

You don't know how hard I'm praying.

If Joshua doesn't want to see me again, it will bloody hurt.

Mandy still hasn't convinced Peter

to hand over his share of their flat.

It's still my home,

why should I be giving him anything that I feel he's not entitled to?

If he knows me from old, he knows

I'll put my heels down and I will fight.

I will fight.

The deal Alan and Yvonne reached in mediation

was finalised and they will soon be divorced.

Obviously, from my point of view, it wasn't perfect.

It's not ideal financially but...

..it's a way, then, to move forward in a more harmonious way,

so that, ultimately, you can see the kids.

To me, it is fair.

To me, I'm happy with what I got.

I could've come out with a lot more but...

If I'd pushed for it, you know, but I didn't want to.

That's it, Lewis, nearly squashed you!

In the end, Yvonne and the children didn't move to Somerset.

Ah! My bed, get off!

Instead, they've been renting close to their former home.

This is the headboard, isn't it?

Which side do you want the headboard on?

It's got to a point where I was just like I can't do it

because I don't know who I'm doing it for

and I don't think it would agree with the kids.

I think the kids would suffer an awful lot.

There you go!

So when it came to me changing my mind,

I think they were probably really happy about that

cos they'd still be at their school and they'd see Daddy more often.

It's now 12 months since their mediation finished

and Yvonne and the children are moving house once again.

-I've met someone.

-Keep going all the way. Keep your finger on it,

otherwise it's going to drain the battery.

I said to my kids that, "Tim wants to be my boyfriend. What do you think about that?"

I just hope it's... Where's the bottom bit?

'They're like, "Yeah, no, all right, then, Mum. Tim's a nice man.

'"We'll let you." And stuff.'

I can't trust you with any of this stuff.

I won't lie. There's a little bit...

that told me to stick around for him, as well.

We're now a couple. We're buying a house together.

Tim's got some money saved up

and, obviously, I've got my money from the house.

It's all working out slowly, nicely.

Unexpectedly.

I ended up, erm...

moving down to my parents' house on the coast.

Who's that?

But I'm only an hour away.

So, after work, I can go and see the kids.

How's school?

All r-r-right!

Give us a kiss.

M-wah!

I shall see you.

-You need to talk to them tomorrow at football.

-All right.

'Being pragmatic and looking at the whole bigger picture,

'perhaps that extra money has made her be more acceptable

'to me having the kids more of the time.'

THEY LAUGH

One, two, three, in you go.

Is life all about money?

-You can't punish me, which is what you're doing...

-I'm not punishing you!

..because it's a personal vendetta.

-No, I don't...

-I will stick by that.

-It's a personal vendetta.

-I don't care what you do.

There are options that benefit everybody here

but you haven't explored them.

I cannot see any better option than going back to Portugal.

I want my money. I'm not just having that. You've got more than me.

-What am I getting, Robina?

-The house.

MUSIC: Knowing Me, Knowing You by Abba

-# Knowing me, knowing you

-A-ha

# There is nothing we can do

-# Knowing me, knowing you

-A-ha

# We just have to face it, this time we're through

# This time we're through, this time we're through

# This time we're through, we're really through

# Breaking up is never easy, I know but I have to go

# I have to go this time I have to go, this time I know

# Knowing me, knowing you

# It's the best I can do. #