Anne Reid Who Do You Think You Are?


Anne Reid

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-Jean...

-Tony.

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No.

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Tony!

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Jean...

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-No?

-No.

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Anne Reid is one of Britain's best-loved actors.

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Her breakthrough role was in the '60s...

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with Coronation Street.

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She's starred on stage and screen,

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most recently as Celia

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in the popular TV drama Last Tango In Halifax.

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I was an inconvenience for 50 years. 50 years!

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Well, he's dead now, so...

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God, I've made better coffee than this is in the microwave!

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Anne is the youngest of four siblings in a close-knit family.

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All I remember of the Reids being together was laughs

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and music and dancing.

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And I don't really remember

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a very serious conversation taking place ever.

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I mean, my family liked to drink, that's all I remember...

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when I was young.

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We loved getting together and we had so many laughs, you know.

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They'd all got great senses of humour, and I just think I'm

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so lucky to have had a family like that.

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But beyond her immediate family,

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Anne knows very little about her ancestry.

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If you dig up a few murderers, I'm not going to be shocked.

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You know, that's other people's lives.

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I don't think I'm going to get terribly weepy.

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I just think I'd like to be related to colourful ancestors, yes.

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I was born on the 28th of May, 1935, in Newcastle on Tyne,

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where my father worked on the Newcastle Chronicle.

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My father and all my brothers became journalists.

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And my grandfather worked on the Bolton Evening News.

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He had a column on cycling.

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Anne knows lots about her grandfather, Thomas David, and

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her father, Colin, through the paper trail of writing they left behind.

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Pretty amazing collection, isn't it, really?

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SHE CHUCKLES

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I need to go through it all.

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But the Reid men weren't

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so forthcoming about their own family history.

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I mean, my father was full of tales.

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He used to say they were ministers of the Kirk of Scotland

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or they were lawyers.

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That's all I know.

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It's a bit of a dead end, that,

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because my father didn't talk about it much.

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And I never asked any questions.

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Anne has recently done a bit of digging for herself,

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helped by a researcher, and now has a lead she wants to follow up.

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We got back to Scotland, to somewhere where my...

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great-grandfather lived. They managed to trace that.

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Anne's heading to Scotland to begin her search.

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I was told that my great-grandfather, Thomas, lived in a house

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called Easter Forret, somewhere in Fife, with his grandparents,

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not with his mother and father. And, um...

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I want to know why.

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Thomas Reid was one of three children.

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In 1842, when he was just five years old, he and his siblings lived

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with their maternal grandparents - David Husband and his wife Isabella.

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Anne's arrived in Fife to pay a visit to the home

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of the Husband family, Easter Forret.

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The house is now owned by James Lindsay.

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DOG BARKS

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Good morning.

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Hello. We're intruding!

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-No, not at all. I'm James Lindsay.

-Do you know the story?

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-Well, I heard that...

-Is it your house?

-It is, yes. I...

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-Yeah, my great-grandfather lived here.

-And when was that?

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-18...

-1850, 1840?

-Something like that, yes.

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-Yeah. And is this the first time you've been up here?

-Oh, yes. Yeah.

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Oh, excellent. Well, welcome to Easter Forret anyway.

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-It's quite remote, isn't it?

-Do you feel that?

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-I think it's got a lovely feel because it is remote.

-Hello.

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Who's that? Come and join us.

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-Come and join us. Is this your son?

-Archie, come and say hello.

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-Hello, Archie. Are you Archie?

-Archie, this is Mrs Reid.

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-Hello. I'm Annie. Hello.

-Hello.

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Did I see you at the station? No.

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-Hector, come and say hello.

-No, I...

-And Hector.

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-This is Hector.

-Oh, we had a Hector!

-My younger brother.

-Did you?

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-There was a Hector, yes...

-In the family as well?

-Yes, yes.

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-Hector, say, "How do you do?"

-How do you do?

-Hello, Hector.

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-My great-grandfather lived in this house. Isn't that exciting?

-Yeah.

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They must have had some money, mustn't they, I would think?

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Doesn't look poverty-stricken, does it?

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Thomas, little soul, his father and mother, John Reid

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and Margaret Reid, I don't know where they were.

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Daddy used to say they were ministers of the Kirk of Scotland, you know.

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DOG BARKS

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Had they died or...? I wonder why he was living with his grandparents.

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Anne now wants to find out what happened to Thomas'

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absent parents, John and Margaret.

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She's heading to the tiny hamlet of Logie,

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a mile from Easter Forret, to meet local genealogist Alison Murray.

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-Alison?

-Hello. How nice to meet you.

-Hello. I'm Annie Reid.

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Alison's been searching for John and Margaret in the church records.

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You managed to get up here?

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So here we are in the churchyard.

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And this is a death record. Can you make this out here?

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-What does that say?

-Husband.

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-Husband, yes. Margaret, yes.

-Margaret, wife...

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Wife of John Reid.

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Oh, that, that was his father.

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My great-grandfather's father was John Reid.

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-And that's his mother.

-And Margaret. Yes.

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-And she died...

-August 4th, 18...

-'39.

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So, Thomas, he was living with his grandparents.

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-So he was an orphan?

-Well, he may not have been an orphan.

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Well...where was his father, then, if his mother died?

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Well, this is the thing.

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We haven't found any records of John Reid having died here

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or round about the local area.

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But you can see from the record that John Reid was a schoolmaster

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at Logie, which is here.

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Yeah, right. That's my grand... great-great-grandfather.

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You get a bit dizzy with the greats.

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Great-great-grandfather was a schoolmaster.

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-You can do. It can be very confusing.

-In Logie?

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Yes. Just round the corner was where the school was.

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He would have taught just here.

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-Would you like to have a look?

-Of course I would!

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So this area here, the school would have been at the bottom here.

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Right. So there isn't a school building left now?

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It's gone a long time ago. It was demolished.

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But this area at the bottom here would've... The building

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would've been there and there would've been some garden ground

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for the children to play in.

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The church and the school worked hand-in-hand as far as looking

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after the welfare of people who lived around here,

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-and the church had quite an important part to play.

-Yeah.

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The Kirk here kept recordings of events and things that went on

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and we've actually found quite a lot about John Reid.

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-You've got a very mysterious look on your face...

-Well, we've...

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..as if you know something that you're not telling me.

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We do know something.

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Would you like to come into the church here?

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The school in Logie, where Anne's great-great-grandfather John taught

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in the 1830s, was run by the Church of Scotland, also known as the Kirk.

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The Kirk dominated every aspect of religious

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and social life in the village.

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Oh, my goodness, what's this place?

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Well, this used to be the church,

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but it's now a bit of a building site.

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Someone's taken this on as a project.

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-I have some information regarding John Reid.

-Right...

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John was expected to uphold high standards,

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and the Kirk elders recorded his every move over a 12-year period.

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-These are quite difficult...

-Have to put my glasses on.

-..to read.

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-Wait a minute.

-They've been transcribed, so that'll help you.

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Oh, right. Oh, thank you.

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So, there's a bit about John Reid.

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"John Reid, presently Parochial Teacher of Logie,

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"was in the year 1829 appointed assistant to the late

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"John Rintoul, then Parish Teacher, and after Mr Rintoul's death, which

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"happened in January, Mr Reid was elected to the vacant office."

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The parochial teacher.

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He became the teacher here at Logie.

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Now we move on to this minute.

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"Your petitioners are sorry to state Mr Reid has not,

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"at least for several years past, discharged the duties

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"incumbent on him as Parochial Teacher satisfactorily."

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Oh, dear!

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"And that the educational interests of the parish have suffered

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"much in consequence."

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Ooh, heavens, I don't like the bad news.

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"For three or four years last past, you have recently

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"and at various times, without proper cause, absented

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"yourself from your school, leaving your school to be taught by the

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"scholars themselves or by your late wife, on which occasion the greatest

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"disorder prevailed in the school and the boys attending it were known

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"to contend amongst themselves which should be teacher for the day."

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Oh, my goodness, he didn't behave terribly well.

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I wonder if he was down the pub!

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Gets curiouser and curiouser.

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"During the year 1838, you, the said John Reid, wrought as a labourer in

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"the village of Logie and elsewhere, when houses were in the course

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"of being built or erected for you..."

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-Mm-hm.

-He was building houses for himself. What a naughty man.

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"..assisting the tradesmen employed thereat to the

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"neglect of your school and scholar and further..."

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He'd decided to turn himself into a businessman, had he, presumably?

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It looks very like it, doesn't it?

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Yes. He wasn't a fool, though, was he, really?

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The children were probably fine. This...

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Sorry, I know it's not funny.

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"You, the said John Reid,

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"were grossly intoxicated on several occasions..."

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"particularly upon the 11th February, 1837,

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"or upon the 11th day of November, 1838,

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"when you continued drinking..."

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I'm sorry, I know this is not funny.

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"..until about four o'clock next morning."

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He certainly made a good job of it.

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Oh, dear! Yes, well, it's in the family, dear.

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I mean, it's fine.

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"And also in or about the month of December, when you continued

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"drinking till the morning of the following day, which was Sunday."

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I'm sorry, this is so funny.

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Poor... Well, he was unhappy, wasn't he,

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cos he'd lost his wife, hadn't he?

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-Um, at that point...

-At that point.

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-..er, she was still alive at that point.

-Oh, really?

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-This is in 1838...

-And she died...

-..and she died in 1839.

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-Oh, this is awful.

-Mm.

-Well...

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And she was often looking after the schoolhouse while he was...

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We do... The Reids do like a drink or two, I have to say.

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We don't drink that much

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but he seems to have excelled at it, actually.

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Oh... That's hilarious.

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-I mean, he was obviously drunk for days, wasn't he?

-Mm.

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Oh, I'm getting to love this man.

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"During barley seed time in the year 1840, you, the said John Reid,

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"went to the house of John Angus at about ten o'clock at night

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"and by your riotous and disorderly conduct..."

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SHE GIGGLES

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"..disorderly conduct,

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"insisting to get into your house,

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"you occasioned great disturbance and annoyance to the persons

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"in the house, to the neighbourhood and made use of very abusive...

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"..and unbecoming language.

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"And on another occasion more recently,

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"you went to the house of John Angus when he and his..."

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THEY LAUGH

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-"..when he and his family were in bed..."

-Oh, dear!

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"..and threatened to break open the door,

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"also on this occasion making the use of more improper language."

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Oh, dear. He was really wild, wasn't he?

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Well, it sounds a bit like it, doesn't it?

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Yes, I can see where it all came from now.

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I wish my father and my brothers were alive...

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I think they'd quite enjoy the story.

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They would have found that hilarious.

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They would've laughed and laughed and laughed.

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Oh, I hope it hasn't got a sad ending.

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"In consequence of speculation engaged in by you,

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"the said John Reid, you contracted debts..." Oh!

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"..and was imprisoned for the same within the jail of Cupar.

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"You were again imprisoned in the said jail on the 29th day

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"of the month of May last at the insistence of the Procurator Fiscal

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"of Fife on a charge of forgery and still remain in said jail to the

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"previous neglect of your school and duties as a schoolmaster."

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What did he forge?

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That you'll have to find out.

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Well, this was clearly why his son

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and children were living up at Easter Forret, I would think.

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I would think so too. Yeah.

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Because they couldn't...

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they couldn't trust him to look after them.

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By 1841, John was in serious trouble.

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He'd contracted debts and was in jail, awaiting trial, for forgery.

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Anne's come to Edinburgh to find out more about the case against him.

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She's formed some firm opinions about his accusers.

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I don't want to offend the people of Logie,

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but I have this picture of the villagers of that time

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all dressed in their black bombazine

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with their buns and their bonnets and all being terribly disapproving

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of this rebel who is sort of going, "Oh," you know, "Get lost!"

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I just have this vision of my grandfather, you know,

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standing there with a bottle of whisky, telling them all to go and...

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you know, do whatever.

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And lines of people frowning at him and looking terribly disapproving,

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and I think he would get more and more rebellious.

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Well, I would.

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Anne's meeting legal expert Professor David Nash.

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He's found John Reid's case amongst the trial documents

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in the National Records of Scotland.

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-I'm getting a bit nervous now.

-Right.

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-I don't like the look of this.

-All will be revealed soon.

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So if we start just down here.

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-If you'd like to...

-Shall I read that?

-..see what it says.

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"John Reid, Schoolmaster of Logie, lately prisoner..." Mmm!

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"..accused of the crime of forgery and also..." "Wickedly", is that?

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-Wickedly.

-Oh, please! "..and wickedly and..."

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Feloniously.

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-"..feloniously using..." What's that?

-"As genuine."

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-"..any forged bill of exchange."

-Right, that's interesting.

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A forged... A bill of exchange is basically a sort of very

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sophisticated IOU, which has got a number of people's signatures.

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-Right.

-And, of course, the more signatures you get,

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-the more trust someone has in that bill of exchange.

-Yes.

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-And would he have a few, then?

-There's quite a few signatures.

-Yes.

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-"Having thereon..."

-"..thereon any forged..."

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-Forged... Subscription is signatures.

-Right.

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"Knowing the same to be forged."

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SHE GASPS

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He meant he forged the signatures?

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Well, this is certainly the indictment charge.

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Oh, my goodness.

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So this is basically the first stage of legal proceedings against him.

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The next stage from that is to actually look at this, which is...

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This is actually the bill of exchange.

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Oh, good heavens!

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That he actually...?

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-This is ostensibly what he "wickedly and feloniously"...

-Poor man.

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-And this is his writing?

-Yes.

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It's like my father's writing.

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And it's like my brother's writing.

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-49...

-49 pounds, 19 shillings.

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19 shillings.

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John was accused of forging a signature on a bill of exchange.

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He could then use the bill to raise money to clear his debts.

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So, ostensibly, what your ancestor has done is,

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once he's got the signatures on here,

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he's gone somewhere to sell this.

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What he would have done is, he would have sold it for less than £49.

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So, you know, a bank or a business would have bought this for, say,

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perhaps £40 or even £30, and...

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They would have given him the money then.

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They would have given him £30 and they... For them, it's

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a useful business transaction because they can of course turn up

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-later and get the £49 for having only paid out 40 or 30.

-Right. Gosh.

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So there was quite a trade in these, which also indicates why

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people were prepared to forge them.

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-See, my family were never any good at money.

-Ah, well...

-Never.

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Anyone whose signature appeared on the bill would be expected to

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pay up when it was finally cashed in.

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Among the signatures is a familiar name.

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David Husband. This is the forgery.

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Oh, John. Oh, dear.

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So he forged the signature of his wife's father, who was quite

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a money man cos he had this nice house.

0:20:360:20:39

Er, well, that's the signature on there.

0:20:390:20:42

But in his sworn testimony, John maintained his innocence.

0:20:420:20:47

And here we can see...

0:20:470:20:49

"Mr John Reid, teacher, Logie, declared that the whole..."

0:20:510:20:56

-Names.

-"..names on the said bill are genuine."

0:20:560:21:00

Is that what he's saying?

0:21:000:21:01

Yes, he's saying people signed it in good faith.

0:21:010:21:04

That, basically, they signed it in exchange for...

0:21:040:21:07

-They weren't forgeries, is what he's saying.

-Yes.

0:21:070:21:09

-He's standing in court saying...

-Right.

0:21:090:21:11

..you know, this is a bona fide transaction,

0:21:110:21:13

those signatures are genuine.

0:21:130:21:15

Right.

0:21:150:21:17

The next stage from that is to actually look at this.

0:21:170:21:20

And here we go. This is David Husband, his testimony.

0:21:230:21:28

-This is his father-in-law?

-Yes.

0:21:280:21:30

"David Husband, farmer at Easter Forret, age 68.

0:21:300:21:38

"I have just now seen a bill bearing to be for 49 pounds, 19 shillings

0:21:380:21:45

"dated Logie, 8th January, 1840."

0:21:450:21:47

-There's no doubt it's this.

-Yes.

0:21:470:21:50

"And, being interrogated, declares that he never subscribed said bill."

0:21:500:21:55

That's what David Husband is saying, yes.

0:21:550:21:57

-Yes, so he's saying, "That's not my signature."

-Yes.

0:21:570:22:00

This is actually a sort of court receipt that people sign to

0:22:000:22:05

say that this is the item in question.

0:22:050:22:07

A document signed by David Husband, witnessed in court,

0:22:070:22:10

provides evidence of what really happened.

0:22:100:22:13

If we look at this...

0:22:130:22:14

David Husband, yes.

0:22:140:22:16

..and see what it looks like in relation to this signature here.

0:22:160:22:20

-If you'd like to compare those two signatures...

-Yeah, well, it's...

0:22:260:22:30

No, it is not the same, is it? No.

0:22:300:22:33

I mean, really, I could forge that easily. No problem whatsoever.

0:22:420:22:47

Why didn't he do a better job of it?

0:22:470:22:50

It's beginning to look a bit... not very nice.

0:22:510:22:57

I hope this is not going to end really sadly.

0:22:570:23:00

Anne's next stop is the Supreme Court, where John's case was tried.

0:23:080:23:13

In 1842, the law was coming down heavily on financial crime.

0:23:170:23:22

Forgery was considered so serious that it was dealt with here,

0:23:220:23:26

in the highest court in the land.

0:23:260:23:29

While his trial was in progress,

0:23:370:23:40

John was incarcerated in a tiny basement cell below the courtroom.

0:23:400:23:44

So this is the cell where he was held.

0:23:460:23:52

And it's all changed, it's all been done up since then,

0:23:520:23:55

but this is actually what he would have looked out at...

0:23:550:24:01

while waiting to hear his fate.

0:24:010:24:04

Must have been all dark in here then. And cold.

0:24:040:24:09

He would have been so scared.

0:24:150:24:17

I hate in life to feel trapped

0:24:170:24:19

and to be forced into doing something I don't want to do.

0:24:190:24:22

And this is where he would've gone up...to the court.

0:24:220:24:27

Ohh!

0:24:270:24:29

Those are the steps that he would've gone up.

0:24:290:24:33

Well, I'd just want to kill everybody if I'd been him.

0:24:340:24:39

This is courtroom number three,

0:24:580:25:01

which is the actual court in which John was tried.

0:25:010:25:04

And was it like this then?

0:25:040:25:06

Well, obviously, there's a significant number of improvements

0:25:060:25:09

but, er, the essence of it is still here.

0:25:090:25:12

As you can see, this is where the judge would've sat and presided.

0:25:120:25:17

And over there is the defendant, who would have been stood...

0:25:170:25:22

He would've been standing here?

0:25:220:25:24

Yes. And/or seated.

0:25:240:25:26

-This is where he would have sat?

-Yes, this is the dock.

0:25:270:25:30

And here we have the verdict.

0:25:360:25:40

If you'd like to have a look...

0:25:400:25:42

"Mr Patton addressed the jury on behalf of the panel."

0:25:450:25:50

"The panel" - what does "the panel" mean?

0:25:500:25:52

The panel is the defendant, it's the Scottish phrase for the defendant.

0:25:520:25:55

Oh, I see.

0:25:550:25:56

"The jury unanimously finds the panel guilty as libelled.

0:25:560:26:00

"In respect of the verdict above recorded, the Lord Commissioners

0:26:020:26:06

"of Justiciary discern and adjudge the said John Reid to..."

0:26:060:26:10

Oh, my God!

0:26:130:26:15

Oh, my God!

0:26:180:26:20

"..to-to be transported beyond the seas for the period of seven years,

0:26:210:26:29

"and ordained him to be detained in the prison

0:26:290:26:33

"of Edinburgh till removed for transportation. James Moncrieff."

0:26:330:26:40

That's appalling!

0:26:400:26:42

Taking him away from his children.

0:26:420:26:45

I didn't think they still sent people.

0:26:460:26:49

He was a convict.

0:26:490:26:51

Well, for 50 or so years earlier, the death penalty would've been

0:26:510:26:55

available for this offence or publicly to be whipped.

0:26:550:27:00

But both of those sentences more or less completely died out

0:27:020:27:06

by this period and transportation is still hanging on.

0:27:060:27:10

What horrible people.

0:27:100:27:12

Oh! I hope they all died horrible deaths!

0:27:150:27:20

Well, what this society believes it's doing is it believes it's

0:27:220:27:25

removing, um, a disreputable source...

0:27:250:27:28

He only forged a signature, for God's sake! Oh, please!

0:27:280:27:33

I wonder what he'd ever done in his life.

0:27:330:27:36

Oh, people are so awful.

0:27:380:27:40

So he went.

0:27:430:27:44

Where did he go to?

0:27:440:27:46

This is the prison record.

0:27:460:27:48

I don't believe this, I just feel... This is incredible.

0:27:480:27:54

Can you see him down here? John Reid.

0:27:540:27:57

"John Reid, forgery," yes.

0:27:570:28:00

-How sad.

-And this last section is crucial.

0:28:000:28:04

That's VD... VDL.

0:28:040:28:07

Which is...Van Diemen's Land.

0:28:070:28:11

Tasmania.

0:28:130:28:14

Australia?

0:28:160:28:17

Oh, good Lord!

0:28:190:28:21

So he went on one of those horrible convict ships.

0:28:210:28:24

Good Lord! I really...

0:28:260:28:29

Well, I've made jokes, actually,

0:28:300:28:32

to my niece in Australia about convicts, but I never

0:28:320:28:37

imagined for a minute that one of my relatives would have been a convict.

0:28:370:28:44

How very weird.

0:28:440:28:46

David Husband would've been in this court, wouldn't he,

0:28:460:28:49

-watching this procedure.

-It's distinctly possible.

0:28:490:28:51

I can just see the man.

0:28:510:28:54

Pompous idiot.

0:28:540:28:56

I've got pictures of all these people now.

0:28:580:29:01

And Isabella, doing what she was told, being a dutiful wife.

0:29:030:29:08

I feel very weird cos I want revenge, you see,

0:29:100:29:12

and these people are all dead now, so I can't get revenge.

0:29:120:29:16

But that's what I'm... I'm a revengeful person,

0:29:160:29:20

I don't think I would forgive them.

0:29:200:29:22

Maybe his life continuing at the other side of the world

0:29:230:29:27

-is the best revenge of all.

-Yes.

0:29:270:29:30

I hope he survived.

0:29:310:29:34

I do hope he survived and did well.

0:29:340:29:36

Cos some of them did well, didn't they, the convicts.

0:29:360:29:39

From Edinburgh, John Reid was sent south to London to be held

0:29:500:29:54

in a prison hulk, a floating jail ship docked in the River Thames.

0:29:540:30:00

These hulks were notoriously over-crowded and disease-ridden.

0:30:000:30:04

Nine months later, in the autumn of 1842,

0:30:090:30:13

he sailed for Tasmania on the transport ship the Earl Grey.

0:30:130:30:18

He was one of over 5,000 convicts sent to the island that year,

0:30:180:30:23

part of a ruthless system to rid Britain of its criminal population -

0:30:230:30:28

some as young as ten.

0:30:280:30:30

Following in John's footsteps, Anne's come to the other side of the

0:30:390:30:42

world, to Tasmania, an island 150 miles south of mainland Australia.

0:30:420:30:48

In John's day, the island was a wild and lawless place.

0:30:530:30:57

White settlers, greedy for farmland,

0:30:570:31:00

had all but wiped out the indigenous Aboriginal population.

0:31:000:31:04

What few roads and buildings did exist had largely been built

0:31:060:31:10

by the convicts under a brutal regime of hard labour.

0:31:100:31:14

John was arriving into what was -

0:31:140:31:17

even by the standards of the day - a notoriously wicked colony.

0:31:170:31:22

I feel so connected to him, that's the weirdest thing.

0:31:300:31:33

This man who I didn't know anything about, I feel totally connected to.

0:31:330:31:38

How was he treated?

0:31:400:31:41

Um, there's so much I want to find out about the journey

0:31:420:31:47

and about actually arriving.

0:31:470:31:49

And whether he ever got back home to see his children.

0:31:490:31:53

Anne's in Hobart meeting historian Trudy Cowley.

0:31:560:32:01

And is this where he arrived?

0:32:010:32:03

He did, if you...

0:32:030:32:06

This actual place?

0:32:060:32:07

-This is Sullivans Cove...

-Yes.

-..and he arrived here.

0:32:070:32:11

The ship would have been anchored just out here.

0:32:110:32:14

How long did it take to get to it from England?

0:32:140:32:17

101 days.

0:32:170:32:19

And how many people would the Earl Grey have held?

0:32:190:32:22

-283 convicts.

-Right.

0:32:220:32:25

I've got...a record of when they arrived here.

0:32:250:32:31

-Right.

-The officials took down details about them.

0:32:310:32:35

We have all these wonderful convict records that give us information

0:32:350:32:39

about what the convicts were like, including what they look like.

0:32:390:32:43

-So here is the one for John.

-Oh, my goodness.

0:32:430:32:45

Oh! Oh, gosh! Ahh!

0:32:450:32:48

-My great-great-grandfather.

-So they come on board

0:32:480:32:52

and they take down all these details for each one of the convicts.

0:32:520:32:55

-So this is a description...

-Oh, look at that! Ohh!

0:32:550:33:00

"John Reid, schoolmaster, five feet..." What? "..seven and a..."

0:33:000:33:04

Eight and a quarter.

0:33:040:33:05

"..eight and a quarter, age 49.

0:33:050:33:08

"Complexion: Fresh.

0:33:080:33:11

"Head: Large."

0:33:110:33:14

Oh, I said I wasn't going to cry on this programme!

0:33:140:33:17

THEY LAUGH

0:33:170:33:19

It's amazing. "Hair: Brown. Visage..."

0:33:190:33:23

-Long.

-"..long."

0:33:230:33:24

He had a long face.

0:33:240:33:26

That's right, that's a Reid face.

0:33:260:33:29

-"Forehead: High."

-Yes.

0:33:290:33:32

"Eyebrows: Light.

0:33:320:33:34

"Eyes: Grey." And he's short-sighted.

0:33:340:33:38

Yes. So I wonder whether he had glasses?

0:33:380:33:41

How amazing. Oh, gosh, I wish my dad was here.

0:33:440:33:49

-So you can get a picture of what he was like.

-Yeah.

0:33:490:33:53

Suddenly, I'm meeting him.

0:33:530:33:55

Now, when he came out on the ship,

0:33:550:33:58

-every convict ship had a Surgeon Superintendent...

-Right.

0:33:580:34:02

..that was responsible for the welfare of the convicts,

0:34:020:34:07

both discipline and health.

0:34:070:34:09

What a task.

0:34:090:34:11

And Colin Arrott Browning was

0:34:110:34:13

-the Surgeon Superintendent on the Earl Grey.

-Browning?

0:34:130:34:16

Browning, yes.

0:34:160:34:17

And so Browning basically had all of the power over the convicts.

0:34:170:34:21

Not the captain of the ship or not the armed guard,

0:34:210:34:23

it was the Surgeon Superintendent.

0:34:230:34:25

So if you made a good impression on the Surgeon Superintendent,

0:34:250:34:29

life could be a little bit better.

0:34:290:34:31

And he made your great-great-grandfather

0:34:310:34:33

the Inspector of Schools.

0:34:330:34:35

-Oh, I see!

-And that is...

0:34:350:34:38

So he did well on the boat, then?

0:34:380:34:40

That's the most important position a convict could hold on the ship.

0:34:400:34:43

John's role as Inspector of Schools on the Earl Grey was

0:34:480:34:52

an important one.

0:34:520:34:54

The authorities were keen to reform as well as punish the convicts,

0:34:540:34:57

and they were given lessons in writing, reading and Bible study.

0:34:570:35:02

Over two thirds of the convicts could neither read nor write

0:35:020:35:06

at the start of the voyage.

0:35:060:35:07

By the end of it, only one remained illiterate, according to the

0:35:070:35:11

Superintendent Surgeon's records, later published as a diary.

0:35:110:35:16

Browning's diary also has several accounts

0:35:160:35:19

written by the prisoners themselves.

0:35:190:35:22

What's really remarkable is that here

0:35:220:35:25

we have a letter written by your great-great-grandfather, John.

0:35:250:35:30

So these are his words.

0:35:300:35:31

Oh, gosh! How amazing.

0:35:310:35:35

"My prayer to God will now be to make me useful in some degree,

0:35:360:35:40

"according to the limited..." Oh!

0:35:400:35:43

"..according to the limited power bestowed on me.

0:35:430:35:46

"Good health and perseverance, I believe...

0:35:480:35:50

"..being all that I possess,

0:35:530:35:55

"more than any other of my equals."

0:35:550:36:01

This is what we all have, this - touch wood -

0:36:010:36:06

good health and doggedness.

0:36:060:36:09

I'm like that.

0:36:090:36:10

Not brilliant, just dogged, and my dad was the same. And...

0:36:100:36:14

"Until Providence is pleased to restore me again..." Oh!

0:36:160:36:21

"..again to my infant orphaned family,

0:36:210:36:27

"now scattered and dependent."

0:36:270:36:29

Oh, that's SO sad.

0:36:360:36:39

"JR."

0:36:410:36:43

Oh, God.

0:36:450:36:46

It's just heart-breaking.

0:36:480:36:50

See, that's what I think, to be separated from his children...

0:36:500:36:55

Mm. So difficult.

0:36:550:36:57

So, he's here, he's well thought of, they can't just turn him

0:36:570:37:02

into an ordinary convict and building things, surely?

0:37:020:37:06

If he had arrived up to three years earlier, it would've been

0:37:060:37:10

under the Assignment System, and because he had such a good,

0:37:100:37:13

glowing recommendation by the Surgeon Superintendent,

0:37:130:37:16

he would've been given a comfortable billet for the rest of his sentence.

0:37:160:37:21

But he hasn't arrived in the Assignment System.

0:37:210:37:24

He's arrived in the Probation System, three years after it begun.

0:37:240:37:28

And the Probation System was introduced

0:37:280:37:30

so that all convicts would be treated equally when they arrived.

0:37:300:37:34

What absolute nonsense!

0:37:350:37:39

The Convict Probation System was a new innovation

0:37:430:37:46

when John arrived in 1843.

0:37:460:37:48

It broke the convict's sentence into two stages -

0:37:480:37:52

first, punishment, then rehabilitation.

0:37:520:37:55

The eventual aim was to move convicts into employment,

0:37:550:37:58

but first they had to endure at least two years of imprisonment

0:37:580:38:02

and hard labour in a camp known as a Probation Station.

0:38:020:38:06

So they were removed from the ship

0:38:090:38:11

and they were marched up the streets here to the penitentiary to stay

0:38:110:38:14

overnight in an outbuilding - all 283 men crammed into an outbuilding.

0:38:140:38:19

He was allocated to a probation gang and, the next morning,

0:38:190:38:23

he would've been sent off to one of the Probation Stations,

0:38:230:38:26

which were mostly in remote locations out in the bush,

0:38:260:38:30

-walking through the bush to get to them.

-It's insanity.

0:38:300:38:33

And the ship's surgeon...wouldn't have had any say in that whatsoever?

0:38:330:38:38

Apart from what he's written on the report...

0:38:380:38:41

John Reid, now 49, was marched 50 miles through the bush

0:38:560:39:02

to the southeast of the island.

0:39:020:39:04

He was to become part of a labour gang,

0:39:040:39:06

forced to build what's now known as the Convict Road.

0:39:060:39:09

Anne's meeting historian Geoff Ritchie at the eastern end of it.

0:39:150:39:19

-You're Geoff?

-Geoff.

-Yes, I'm Annie. Hello.

-Lovely to meet you.

0:39:190:39:23

-How are you?

-And you.

0:39:230:39:25

-Why is it called the Convict Road?

-Well, quite simply,

0:39:290:39:32

it was actually constructed by the convicts themselves.

0:39:320:39:34

-Oh, this, they made this road?

-They made this road.

0:39:340:39:38

-Are there snakes here?

-No, you'll be fine.

0:39:380:39:41

The convicts were basically set up in Probation Stations

0:39:410:39:45

and put on to building roads, building bridges.

0:39:450:39:48

Right. Wasn't much of a road.

0:39:480:39:50

They didn't do a very good job, did they, if I may so?

0:39:500:39:54

Well, I think it would probably have settled and eroded over time.

0:39:540:39:57

It's fairly...very, very old now.

0:39:570:39:59

Right. Can I take your hand a minute? Thank you very much.

0:39:590:40:04

Sorry, Anne, we might just sit down here perhaps, shall we?

0:40:070:40:09

-This log?

-A nice little seat.

-Oh, OK.

0:40:090:40:13

I hope there's, I hope there's nothing living in it.

0:40:130:40:16

-You'll be very right there.

-I hope it doesn't get up and walk away!

0:40:160:40:18

It's not going to walk over you.

0:40:180:40:20

In temperatures reaching as high as 40 degrees,

0:40:240:40:28

the convicts hacked out stone

0:40:280:40:30

to build the road running from Buckland to Prosser's Bay.

0:40:300:40:34

This was to be part of a road network linking penal colonies

0:40:360:40:39

throughout the island.

0:40:390:40:41

In the thickly wooded, rocky terrain,

0:40:460:40:48

the convicts also built the probation station

0:40:480:40:51

where they'd live for the next two years.

0:40:510:40:54

This is basically a schematic plan of one of the two stations

0:40:560:41:00

that were on this road.

0:41:000:41:02

-Because...

-Yes.

-..coming out to the new station,

0:41:020:41:04

cos they're going to have to build these places that are on this road.

0:41:040:41:07

So when they came here they had to build their own accommodation

0:41:070:41:10

-because there was just this.

-There's nothing here.

0:41:100:41:13

-Scrubland.

-Nothing here.

-Right, OK.

0:41:130:41:16

And each of these stations probably housed 250 to 300 people in cells.

0:41:160:41:20

The Lockup Hole, the Watchman's Hut.

0:41:200:41:22

-Yes.

-Assistant Superintendent,

0:41:220:41:25

the oven, the bake house, right.

0:41:250:41:26

Doctor's quarters, cookhouse.

0:41:260:41:28

A chapel.

0:41:310:41:32

I love the way they have a chapel.

0:41:320:41:35

Treating these people in the most un-Christian way...

0:41:350:41:38

..but they still went and prayed on Sunday, right.

0:41:400:41:43

And how would they have spent a day, do you think?

0:41:450:41:47

Is there any record of that?

0:41:470:41:48

They'd be out at the crack of dawn.

0:41:480:41:50

They'd be out there breaking rocks, as we've seen along here,

0:41:500:41:53

it's very rocky around this area,

0:41:530:41:54

so they'd be breaking up those rocks

0:41:540:41:56

to use them in the construction of the road.

0:41:560:41:59

I mean, in this case, where they're coming through the bush,

0:41:590:42:01

they'd have to clear the area, clear the logs, clear the trees,

0:42:010:42:04

they were constantly on the go.

0:42:040:42:06

They'd march back to the station in the evening.

0:42:140:42:17

-Like the chain gang sort of thing.

-Yes. Yeah.

0:42:170:42:20

There'd be soldiers around them,

0:42:200:42:22

armed soldiers around them all the time

0:42:220:42:24

to make sure they didn't...

0:42:240:42:25

didn't try to abscond.

0:42:250:42:27

The backbreaking work was brutal.

0:42:290:42:32

But the discipline imposed on convicts like John

0:42:330:42:36

was equally severe.

0:42:360:42:38

A contemporary account describes what could happen.

0:42:380:42:41

This is a little interesting something here

0:42:420:42:45

that you might like to see.

0:42:450:42:46

It just gives you a little taste of what it would have been like

0:42:460:42:48

in the station itself.

0:42:480:42:51

"Then commenced the course of government

0:42:510:42:53

"and discipline, to which I have been subjected.

0:42:530:42:56

"The triangle was erected, the horrid cat."

0:42:560:43:01

What was the triangle?

0:43:010:43:02

The triangle was basically, as it states, a triangle of timbers.

0:43:020:43:07

And the person was strapped to the...

0:43:070:43:09

-Tied to it.

-Tied to it.

0:43:090:43:10

"The horrid cat."

0:43:100:43:12

Short for cat-of-nine-tails.

0:43:120:43:13

"I saw with grief and pain, flourished about the station

0:43:130:43:17

"by a fellow prisoner, appointed flagellator."

0:43:170:43:20

I mean, that must have been hard for them, mustn't it?

0:43:200:43:23

"Transportation is a terrible evil

0:43:230:43:26

"to be dreaded above all temporal evil.

0:43:260:43:29

"Under such circumstances the strongest mind becomes dejected

0:43:290:43:33

"and the spirit broken.

0:43:330:43:35

"Oh, that men and women would take warning

0:43:350:43:39

"and shun the commission of crime

0:43:390:43:41

"which entails upon the offender such indescribable misery."

0:43:410:43:46

The stones are still here that they cut.

0:44:060:44:09

Found a little regular shaped stone.

0:44:090:44:12

Who knows?

0:44:130:44:14

Maybe my great-great-grandfather cut that.

0:44:140:44:17

Anyway, he would have stood somewhere here

0:44:170:44:20

and seen the same hills

0:44:200:44:22

and I feel a great sense of...

0:44:220:44:26

being with him, his presence here.

0:44:260:44:28

I would think he hated not to be free.

0:44:300:44:32

But once the hard labour was over, there was hope for John.

0:44:420:44:46

Two years into his seven-year sentence

0:44:470:44:50

he became eligible for a pass.

0:44:500:44:52

This was a document of parole,

0:44:520:44:54

allowing him to work for a local settler under certain conditions.

0:44:540:44:58

If he broke those conditions his pass would be revoked.

0:45:000:45:03

Anne's meeting historian Hamish Maxwell-Stewart

0:45:120:45:16

to discover what happened to John after he left the Convict Road.

0:45:160:45:19

There is a notice in the Hobart Town Gazette dated August 16, 1844,

0:45:220:45:26

and it's a huge list of convicts who are coming out of probation,

0:45:260:45:30

and it tells you where they went.

0:45:300:45:33

And there we have John Reid down there.

0:45:330:45:36

-It says, "John Reid..."

-"Earl Grey..."

-Yes.

0:45:370:45:39

-"..to Joseph Hayton, Iron Creek."

-Yes.

0:45:390:45:42

That would mean he would be sent to that house?

0:45:420:45:44

It means that he signed a contract to work with that settler.

0:45:440:45:49

-So he's moved from working in a road gang to a settler.

-Right.

0:45:490:45:55

And as a pass holder working for a settler

0:45:550:45:58

he'll be on a small wage as well.

0:45:580:46:00

Then something very interesting happens,

0:46:000:46:02

and so we have little advertisements that start appearing

0:46:020:46:05

in the newspaper for the Carlton District.

0:46:050:46:09

Can you see who that is?

0:46:090:46:11

John Reid.

0:46:110:46:12

"The Carlton Agricultural Society.

0:46:130:46:16

"The members, but especially the directors,

0:46:160:46:18

"are requested to meet at Carlton Inn on Thursday evening,

0:46:180:46:22

"the seventh instant, at six o'clock to audit the accounts

0:46:220:46:25

"and to consider what means shall be adopted to carry out

0:46:250:46:29

"the object of the society in a ploughing match..."

0:46:290:46:33

ANNE LAUGHS

0:46:330:46:35

"..to come off early this season.

0:46:350:46:37

"By order of the committee, John Reid, Clerk and Secretary."

0:46:370:46:43

And that was September 1st, 1840...?

0:46:430:46:47

Yes, that one is 1848.

0:46:470:46:49

'48.

0:46:490:46:51

So they organise this annual ploughing competition...

0:46:510:46:53

-Yeah.

-..where people assembled their plough teams

0:46:530:46:56

-and their best ploughmen.

-Right.

0:46:560:46:58

And we have here other notices that are very much like this.

0:46:580:47:03

And what I particularly like about this one is that, um,

0:47:030:47:07

John Reid's promoted himself.

0:47:070:47:09

He's now Secretary. He's... The Clerk has dropped.

0:47:090:47:12

-That's the 1st September, this is only the 18th September.

-Yes!

0:47:120:47:16

But you would have no indication that he was a convict

0:47:190:47:22

serving a sentence.

0:47:220:47:23

No. Great.

0:47:230:47:26

In 1849, when John was 55,

0:47:260:47:29

his name appeared on a muster roll - a census of all Tasmania's convicts.

0:47:290:47:36

So this is the page that John Reid is on

0:47:360:47:38

and he's right down, down the bottom.

0:47:380:47:41

So he's down here, and then it says at the end,

0:47:410:47:45

I don't know if you can read that there.

0:47:450:47:48

-Free.

-Free.

0:47:480:47:50

So by 1849,

0:47:500:47:53

he's been provided with a certificate of freedom.

0:47:530:47:56

So...

0:47:580:48:00

He was sentenced in '43, came over in '43

0:48:000:48:04

-and what date, what year is this?

-This is 1849.

0:48:040:48:07

-So it's six...

-So he served six years. Yes.

0:48:070:48:11

So he's out before his official time would have expired.

0:48:110:48:15

So time off for good behaviour.

0:48:150:48:17

So free to go anywhere that he wants to go, within the British Empire.

0:48:170:48:20

-He can travel anywhere.

-Well, would he go back home?

0:48:200:48:23

-Well, some convicts do. Only a small number.

-He's got children.

0:48:230:48:26

Now, the problem with this is the cost of the passage back.

0:48:260:48:31

You had to pay that passage yourself.

0:48:310:48:33

And it was very, very expensive.

0:48:330:48:36

-So...

-How much would they need?

0:48:360:48:38

Oh, between £30 and £40, which, you know,

0:48:380:48:42

it doesn't sound like a lot in current money,

0:48:420:48:44

-but then that was a labourer's entire annual salary.

-Right.

0:48:440:48:49

So it was actually much, much more expensive than a current air fare.

0:48:490:48:53

So it was, you know, a considerable barrier.

0:48:530:48:56

Maybe he didn't want to go back and see them any more

0:48:560:48:59

cos they'd been taken over by his father-in-law,

0:48:590:49:01

David Husband, whose signature he'd forged and...

0:49:010:49:05

-Well, let's have a look and see what happens next.

-Yes, please.

0:49:050:49:08

Now, where we next find him...

0:49:080:49:10

..is in court,

0:49:120:49:14

which is not a promising start, is it?

0:49:140:49:16

In court?

0:49:160:49:18

But, unlike before, he's not in the dock.

0:49:180:49:22

It's because he's prosecuting somebody else.

0:49:220:49:24

And it turns out that he is a licensed trader.

0:49:240:49:28

And somebody steals goods off him worth £15.

0:49:280:49:32

One of them, I kind of like the detail, it's a little silver comb.

0:49:320:49:36

You know, quite clearly he's able to acquire...

0:49:360:49:39

-Possessions.

-Possessions. So, luxury items.

0:49:390:49:41

What exactly is his job? What exactly is he doing?

0:49:410:49:45

He's described as a hawker.

0:49:450:49:47

But I think that that's, you know, a little bit demeaning.

0:49:470:49:52

The picture that I get is that he's a general trader.

0:49:520:49:55

He does a lot of different things.

0:49:550:49:57

Much better to actually see him as an entrepreneurial figure

0:49:570:50:01

who is very much at the heart of a little agricultural community.

0:50:010:50:05

Entrepreneurial is not a word I would have thought of

0:50:050:50:09

in the Reid family, so this is very interesting.

0:50:090:50:13

The thing that I find really interesting about this

0:50:140:50:16

is that the records indicate that he's earning the kind of money

0:50:160:50:21

that would have allowed him to buy a passage

0:50:210:50:24

to go anywhere that he wanted to.

0:50:240:50:26

During Tasmania's 50 years as a penal colony,

0:50:310:50:34

75,000 people served time there,

0:50:340:50:38

the vast majority never returned home.

0:50:380:50:40

With over half the island's population made up of current

0:50:420:50:45

or former convicts, having a criminal record

0:50:450:50:48

carried none of the stigma it would have done back in Scotland.

0:50:480:50:51

But knowing how keen John was to see his children,

0:50:550:50:58

Anne wonders whether he ever made it back home.

0:50:580:51:01

I'm thrilled that he did so well,

0:51:040:51:07

but I'm sort of dreading finding out how he died.

0:51:070:51:10

I hope he went home.

0:51:100:51:12

I'd love him to have gone back to see my great-grandfather...

0:51:120:51:15

..and have it out sort of with the family.

0:51:160:51:19

But I don't think he did that.

0:51:190:51:21

BLEATING

0:51:210:51:24

Oh, boy! The things I've got to tell you, dear.

0:51:270:51:31

To help her find out how John's story ended,

0:51:320:51:35

Anne's invited her niece, Karen Disney, to join her.

0:51:350:51:39

You won't believe about your great-great...

0:51:390:51:42

Your great-great-great and my great-great-grandfather.

0:51:420:51:45

Karen's lived on mainland Australia for 40 years

0:51:450:51:49

but grew up with Anne in England.

0:51:490:51:51

They've been in touch with researchers

0:51:560:51:58

at the Tasmanian Archives in Hobart

0:51:580:52:00

who found some new information.

0:52:000:52:02

Thank you.

0:52:020:52:04

Thanks. Do you want to take that one?

0:52:040:52:07

And you... Take that one.

0:52:070:52:09

-What are these?

-There we go.

-Right.

0:52:090:52:11

Oh, here we are.

0:52:170:52:19

"Deaths in the district of..."

0:52:190:52:21

What's that? Clarence...

0:52:210:52:23

-Plains.

-Plains.

-Wherever that is.

0:52:230:52:26

-Right.

-You tell me if you see anything, tell me.

0:52:260:52:30

John Reid.

0:52:300:52:32

Right there.

0:52:320:52:33

On the 15th November, 18...

0:52:340:52:36

'61.

0:52:360:52:38

-"The said John Reid..."

-Yes...

0:52:380:52:40

"..on the 15th November, 1861, in a..."

0:52:400:52:43

"..a certain arm of the sea called Barilla Bay

0:52:430:52:48

"in the district of Clarence."

0:52:480:52:51

"In the said island, was found dead..."

0:52:510:52:53

-"..and that..."

-"And that..."

-"..the said John Reid..."

0:52:530:52:56

"..the said John Reid had no marks of violence on his body,

0:52:560:53:02

"but by..." What's that?

0:53:020:53:04

"Visitation of God."

0:53:040:53:06

Visitation of God, right.

0:53:060:53:09

Oh, Lord.

0:53:090:53:10

"Visitation of God in a..."

0:53:100:53:12

"..natural way..."

0:53:120:53:13

"..natural way by apoplexy." How would they know that?

0:53:130:53:17

So he was found dead in Barilla Bay and I think...

0:53:170:53:21

But what age though?

0:53:210:53:23

It was up there, I just caught a glimpse of...

0:53:230:53:25

Oh, yes, what's that say?

0:53:250:53:27

Aged about 60 years.

0:53:270:53:30

So '48, he had ten years...

0:53:310:53:34

-..living here.

-Yeah.

0:53:360:53:38

How sad.

0:53:380:53:40

Oh.

0:53:400:53:42

I wanted him to go back home.

0:53:420:53:45

Aw, no. He didn't make it, did he?

0:53:450:53:47

But what about John's children?

0:53:480:53:50

Anne's great-grandfather, Thomas, was only five

0:53:500:53:54

and already living with his grandfather, David Husband,

0:53:540:53:57

when John was transported.

0:53:570:53:59

Anne is curious to know how much he knew.

0:53:590:54:03

So the next thing is...

0:54:030:54:06

And I think you better open that.

0:54:060:54:09

Let's see what we find in here.

0:54:110:54:14

Oh, that's a death certificate.

0:54:140:54:16

Well, no, an entry of marriage.

0:54:160:54:18

December 26th, 1864.

0:54:200:54:24

Thomas Reid, that's his son.

0:54:250:54:28

Ah, look! Elizabeth Evans.

0:54:280:54:30

Elizabeth Evans, right.

0:54:320:54:34

-Bachelor...

-And spinster.

0:54:340:54:36

-And he was a clerk.

-He was a clerk.

-Yeah.

0:54:360:54:40

-At Everton...

-Yeah.

0:54:400:54:42

Father's name - John Reid. Aw.

0:54:420:54:46

What does it say John Reid was?

0:54:460:54:48

Rank or profession of father - clergyman, deceased.

0:54:480:54:51

A clergyman.

0:54:510:54:53

-How did that happen?!

-You see, that's why my father kept saying

0:54:530:54:56

-we were descended from the ministers of the Kirk of Scotland.

-Yes.

0:54:560:55:00

-But that Thomas Reid...

-Yes.

-..was the one who called his son,

0:55:010:55:05

my grandfather, Thomas David Husband Reid

0:55:050:55:11

-after the grandfather.

-Yes.

0:55:110:55:14

-The maternal grandfather who brought him up.

-Mm.

0:55:140:55:17

-Well...

-Maybe Thomas was never ever told cos he was only tiny

0:55:180:55:22

when his father became a convict.

0:55:220:55:24

Anne's come with Karen to Barilla Bay

0:55:400:55:43

where her great-great-grandfather John died in 1861.

0:55:430:55:47

Finally, she's uncovered the truth,

0:55:490:55:52

a story suppressed within her family for generations.

0:55:520:55:55

The shame of being a convict would have been unbearable

0:56:020:56:07

and I'm quite sure that that's why his son Thomas

0:56:070:56:10

described his father as a clergyman.

0:56:100:56:12

He didn't do anything very spectacular, Thomas, did he?

0:56:140:56:17

Except call his child after the man who ruined his father.

0:56:170:56:22

Maybe John Reid wanted to lead a different life

0:56:250:56:28

and maybe that's the life he got here

0:56:280:56:31

because he didn't go back to school-teaching here.

0:56:310:56:33

I mean, he seemed to make the choices he wanted to make.

0:56:350:56:39

And it's a beautiful island, it's a beautiful place,

0:56:400:56:43

so I can only hope he was happy.

0:56:430:56:45

And I feel that John Reid and I

0:56:470:56:50

would have actually got on very well together.

0:56:500:56:52

I'm enormously proud of being the ancestor of a convict.

0:56:580:57:04

That's mad, isn't it? I really am.

0:57:040:57:06

I'm terribly proud of it.

0:57:060:57:08

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