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Now on BBC News it is time for Our World. | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
It was a shocking crime that happened back in 1992. A newly | :00:09. | :00:17. | |
engaged British woman, eight to arrest, murdered in the streets of | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
New Orleans. But what followed was an astonishing miscarriage of | :00:22. | :00:28. | |
justice. There are not any other cases I know when somebody has been | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
committed a crime that somebody has already been convicted of. And we | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
had all of the evidence from the witnesses that only one person could | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
have committed that crime. To people who did not know each other were | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
both in prison for killing the woman. Who really committed the | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
crime and why was the other forgotten behind bars. The fact that | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
this was wrongly convicted did not sit with me well at all. Hackwood | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
the American justice system have got it so wrong -- how could? | :01:01. | :01:25. | |
Began on the 14th of April 1992. Julie and her boyfriend were walking | :01:26. | :01:35. | |
back to their hotel in the quiet streets of this city's famous French | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
Quarter. Unknown to them a crime spree had been taking place. He said | :01:40. | :01:48. | |
it give me everything you have got, I'm going to kill you. I heard shots | :01:49. | :01:59. | |
ring out and I said they have got somebody. And he had to. The gunmen | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
had confronted the tourists leaving truly dead on the road. It was left | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
to do the detective to try and piece together what had happened. Asuna | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
SEK Matty jumped out pointed a gun at them and demanded money or | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
whatever. They did not understand that that was a robbery and they | :02:20. | :02:28. | |
were trying to work out what was happening -- as soon as he got out | :02:29. | :02:37. | |
he jumped out. Then he drove his car and got away. It hit the headlines | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
here in New Orleans but back in the UK it was a page news as well. One | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
newspaper offered a huge reward to try and catch the killer. The | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
detective said that that kind of money led to a deluge of calls from | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
the public. Finally the police received one that might be of | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
interest. At the tip came in and the caller remained anonymous and | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
identified three guys. Because it was so soon after the murder and the | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
way they were describing certain things they thought that they may | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
have been involved with the murder. That was one leader we checked out | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
pretty hard. Amongst those names was Robert Jones. Police decided to | :03:25. | :03:32. | |
act. We just heard noise everywhere and people demanding that we open up | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
the door. In the middle of the night they surrounded Robert's home. We | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
watch them with their big guns in they made everybody get on the | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
floor. Even the kids. It was total chaos. You know we were tried at | :03:45. | :03:52. | |
what was going on. It is over and done with the Robert Jones. The next | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
thing that came to knew is that she was watching Robert being marched to | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
jail accused of murder. It was horrible. Everybody was in tears and | :04:03. | :04:12. | |
crying and in disbelief because we never would have thought that nobody | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
would come here and arrest Robert the -- for murder. Was there a | :04:18. | :04:27. | |
moment that they thought may be Robert had done something wrong? | :04:28. | :04:37. | |
Know I did not. -- no. What made you think that? Because of the type of | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
person he was. He would not hurt anyone. Robert Jones had previously | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
been suspected of drug offences though he never had a conviction. | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
Some in the UK media thought they had got their man. They were | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
triumphant claiming credit for the arrest. But detectives had huge | :04:53. | :05:02. | |
doubts. The media knew that we arrested him but I thought the | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
headlines got a little overblown because from our perspective, the | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
task force guys, we knew there was a lot more work to do. We had a hard | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
time tying him back to the scene. The murder of Julie Stott was part | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
of a crime scene was happening here. Robberies rape and killing. In | :05:23. | :05:30. | |
each case there was a certain descriptions of the card was used | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
and the attacker. An early indication of Rob Jones is not that | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
man is an after his arrest, the crime spree continued. Detectors | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
felt they finally got a real way through when they found a car to | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
match the very distinctive description. It do not belong to | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
Robert Jones but to Lester Jones who is no relation. When he was | :05:51. | :05:58. | |
arrested, the crime spree did and. -- end. He was found possession of | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
the jewellery is in the robberies and rape and one other major piece | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
of evidence. With found a murder weapon and had the gun examined. The | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
ballistic sky was able to tie the gun back to him. Arab opinion was | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
that we can tie Leicester to everything and we did not tie Robert | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
to anything. And what about tying the two of them together? We tried | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
that but we could not. There was no links. They were 12 years apart in | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
age to that was nothing to tie them together. Lester Jones was convicted | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
of Julie Stott's murder and sent to jail. But Robert Jones was never | :06:38. | :06:48. | |
released. In fact, four years after he was first arrested in a trial | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
that lasted less than ten hours, astonishing as it sounds, Robert | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
Jones was also sent to prison for crimes in the same spree that Lester | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
Jones had already been convicted of, rape, armed robbery and the | :07:05. | :07:12. | |
killing of Julie Stott. This is a pre- call from Robert. An inmate of | :07:13. | :07:22. | |
the Louisiana penitentiary. The first time we spoke to Robert was on | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
the phone since that fateful day in the courthouse, he had been in | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
Louisiana's prison. Do you remember the moment that the verdict was | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
announced and how you felt at that moment? I could not put it in | :07:37. | :07:38. | |
words. That is amazing. When did he do | :07:39. | :07:59. | |
this? This was sometime beginning of last year. Robert's daughter was | :08:00. | :08:07. | |
born eight months after he went to jail. She doesn't have any | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
photographs of him so he painted her a picture from prison. Have there | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
been particular moments when you wish he was here right now? There | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
has been a lot of them. From when I was younger. I'm 22 years old now | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
and I'm still young but it is like that I see my friends and they have | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
their mother and a father. They can ride bikes and go out to eat and | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
spend time with them. I never really had him. I had him but I did not | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
have him. We always kept a relationship going and we would talk | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
on the phone, but you are here but you are not here. So I did not | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
really know how to feel. Why don't they let him come home? It has been | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
all this time. Every year I'm thinking he will be home this year. | :08:58. | :09:05. | |
But now I have graduated high school and now I'm about to graduate | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
college but I still need my father. So why did he end up in prison and | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
we wanted to find the people who put him in there. We have been trying to | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
locate Robert's lawyer who has been accused of incompetence during the | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
trial but he never returned our calls. After several minutes of his | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
doorstep I noticed movement inside the car. Excuse me I'm looking for | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
Mr Atkins. It showed that he failed to grasp that another man had been | :09:39. | :09:47. | |
already convicted of the crime is -- convicted in the same spree. I did | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
represent him and did not get a free. What people are on the site | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
criticising me saying you could have done this and that, they did not | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
spend the time and they could've gone down there and represented | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
him. You don't feel any responsibility to him being in | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
jail? I did the best I could represent an Robert Jones at the | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
time. And I think he got the best representation he could have | :10:18. | :10:19. | |
gotten. Lawyers from the charity Project New | :10:20. | :10:34. | |
Orleans say it wasn't just mistakes by his lawyer that meant Robert went | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
to prison but something more sinister. There aren't any other | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
cases I know where someone has been convicted of a crime that someone | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
else has already been convicted of and where all the evidence from the | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
witnesses at the scene for just one person only committed that crime. It | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
was a pretty extraordinary circumstance. The very frustrating | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
thing about Robert's case is that all of the people who are | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
prosecuting it in the first instance in the early 1990s turned a blind | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
eye to the fact that it was Lester Jones who had committed the crime | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
and even more then turned a blind eye, deliberately but held that | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
evidence from the jury and continued to prosecute Robert because they | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
could come about as they should have but because they could. When you | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
look at Robert's case it does involve some of the clearest | :11:26. | :11:27. | |
indications of innocence but also wrongdoing on the half of | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
prosecutors that I've seen in any case. It has now been shown state | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
prosecutors withheld important evidence at Robert Jones' trial. | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
Some of that evidence is still coming to light now. They also told | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
a jury that Robert Jones and Lester Jones were friends even though | :11:47. | :11:48. | |
detectives had said that wasn't true. Inside the grand new Orleans | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
courthouse, Wi Calvin Johnson, the judge who presided over Robert 's | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
trial -- we met. Robert Jones, at the very least, in terms of how his | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
trial played out in front of me, I can believe the way Plato based on | :12:07. | :12:14. | |
what we could do, that it played out in a fairway -- played out. So I | :12:15. | :12:20. | |
don't... It... The fact that he was wrongly convicted and is in jail for | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
something that he didn't do is not on me. He told us state prosecutors | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
skewed evidence to prevent a compelling case framing Robert | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
Jones. But why? Judge Johnson said at the time the state steam to beat | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
-- seem to be trying to put a behind bars as many young black men as | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
possible. That was the driving thing in this town in this area for | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
decades before Robert Jones and since Robert Jones. It has changed | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
some but not totally changed. In that how we operate the criminal | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
justice system in Louisiana, or for that matter how we operate that | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
criminal justice system across the South, where race is such an issue, | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
you see the same things play out. What does it say that he's still, 23 | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
years after he was arrested, he's still in prison? What does that say | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
about how much he is valued? Well, he isn't. And the way we look at the | :13:20. | :13:30. | |
Robert Jones case, if he didn't do this, he did something else and | :13:31. | :13:32. | |
therefore got away with doing something else, and therefore his | :13:33. | :13:39. | |
punishment is not justified for this particular act, it's justified for | :13:40. | :13:41. | |
other things he did or would have done down the road. An extraordinary | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
admission, to say black men were being put away because the | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
authorities felt they had probably done something to deserve prison, | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
even if that wasn't the crime at hand. Attila to African-Americans | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
living in New Orleans and they won't be the slightest surprised and it is | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
hard to prove definitively. What is clear is that for many years, what | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
ever the reason, there was something badly wrong with the justice system | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
in this city. This is not the only case. There have been other cases | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
where prosecutors either intentionally or negligently | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
withheld evidence. So I don't think there is a question about that. The | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
best I can do is, let's move forward. From this point, from the | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
moment I took office, what we said we were going to do is, those things | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
are not going to happen. We are going to do the very best we can to | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
see to it that every person who comes into the justice system in New | :14:37. | :14:41. | |
Orleans parish is treated fairly. But that didn't stop the district | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
attorney fighting against any court ruling that Robert Jones' trial was | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
unfair. In summer 2015, the Supreme Court finally dismissed the state's | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
appeals, saying Robert had not had a fair trial. And in November, 23 | :14:56. | :15:03. | |
years and seven months after he was first arrested, members of Robert's | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
family waited outside New Orleans parish jail for him finally to be | :15:10. | :15:10. | |
released. CHEERING. It'll be all right. What was | :15:11. | :15:50. | |
yesterday like, walking out? It was wonderful. It's a beautiful | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
feeling. It was something I always talk about actual a couldn't have | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
dreamed that feeling. -- it was something I always... Actually I | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
couldn't have dreamed that feeling. It was beautiful up quite what do | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
you remember -- beautiful. What do you remember yesterday? This burden | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
of being incarcerated all those years was lifted. It was like I | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
wanted to fly. If you tried to explain what it is like to be in | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
prison for something that you weren't guilty of, how can you | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
explain to others what that felt like? A complete nightmare | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
actually. A real nightmare. It was... You can't find a word in the | :16:36. | :16:45. | |
dictionary to describe the cruelty that is in someone's mind in dealing | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
with something like that. Prison life is just rough, you know? It is | :16:49. | :16:59. | |
a deeper injustice when you're in innocent -- innocent. How did you | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
get through it? My faith in God. And I developed a system of just | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
grabbing onto the positive things that happened in my life through the | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
course of the years. It is a true saying, the truth will set you free | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
one day when you can find it and that was the problem for us. As well | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
as for me, finding the truth. The truth was buried so deep. But in | :17:27. | :17:34. | |
spite of all that has come to light since his conviction, Robert is not | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
in the clear yet. The district attorney is still insisting he faces | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
a retrial. If the defendant does not receive a fair trial, then he is | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
entitled to have any conviction that may have resulted from that vacated | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
and then we proceed to give him a fair trial. I think sometimes people | :17:55. | :18:01. | |
equate the fact that someone did not receive a fair trial with the fact | :18:02. | :18:08. | |
that the defendant may be innocent. But Robert's lawyers feel on the | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
basis of what we know today, the district attorney should dismiss his | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
case. One that should never have gone to trial in the first place. | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
The evidence that was withheld is not some evidence about fairness. It | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
is not a little bit of evidence that might tip the balance. It was | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
evidence that Lester Jones did the crime. It is not some technicality | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
that means he didn't get a fair trial. The district attorney's | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
office over several attorneys and several years withheld key evidence | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
from Robert Jones' defence. Robert Jones now, having to defend himself | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
against charges of a crime that happened when tea four years ago, it | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
will underlay cripple his defence because the state refused to comply | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
with the Constitution when they tried him the first time. Robert | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
says he is determined to carry on the fight to officially clear his | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
name and get justice. Say for instance there is a guy living in a | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
bad neighbourhood and pulled out of pistol until some guy and you look | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
at him as a cold blooded murderer -- killed some guy. But you have a | :19:19. | :19:25. | |
district attorney who would withhold crucial evidence from a guy, take | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
his life, sent him to prison, and most guys that die in prison or | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
innocent people. What's the difference? The downside is I | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
watched a lot of guys die in prison. A lot. I watched a lot of | :19:39. | :20:03. | |
guys die in prison. A lot of them were my good friends, also. And | :20:04. | :20:17. | |
Robert counted 39 prisoners he knew in his 23 years in prison who he was | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
convinced were innocent and who died behind bars. How many Robert Jones | :20:25. | :20:33. | |
like people do you think are in prison? In Louisiana and the South, | :20:34. | :20:44. | |
our justice system is replete with them, replete with individuals who | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
because of how the justice system was operated over the last decades, | :20:49. | :20:55. | |
pick a number, we have ended up with people who were wrongly prosecuted, | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
convicted, who had mountains of evidence not provided which could | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
have exonerated them. We ended up with this in America. My case is | :21:07. | :21:22. | |
given a lot of guys hope because of the fact that they know I'm going to | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
stand up and fight to the end. And it gives them hope. It gives them an | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
opportunity to create a better system for them. That is another | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
avid thing that actually gives me strength, to fight for a lot of | :21:44. | :21:56. | |
those guys also. That his mushroom with pesto. Remarkably, Robert says | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
in spite of his 23 years in prison for what he didn't do, he's not | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
bitter or angry. But he does justice and assurances other people won't go | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
through what he did. But that is a tall order and Robert still has to | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
clear his own name in a retrial. Having dissected this particular | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
wrongful conviction and having got a sense of what he took away from | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
Robert Jones, it is shocking to think this is being played out so | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
many more times, and in cases where this is -- innocence is not so | :22:33. | :22:42. | |
obvious, the truth is buried even deeper. | :22:43. | :23:09. | |
The weekend is upon us and the weather is not looking too bad. Rein | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
in the forecast but as far | :23:16. | :23:16. |