The Girl Who Talked to Dolphins


The Girl Who Talked to Dolphins

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In the Caribbean,

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on the shore of one

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of the American Virgin Islands,

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sits a strange, crumbling building.

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It's a monument to perhaps the most remarkable period

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in the history of animal science.

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In the 1960s, a group of researchers came here to study dolphins.

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Dolphins have been here 65 million years.

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We're just getting out of the trees. They know more than we do.

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Inspired by new discoveries about the animal mind,

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the researchers believed they could, for the first time,

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communicate with another species, by teaching dolphins to speak.

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Why not?

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That's what I kept saying.

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Let's do this.

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-Hello.

-Ah-oh.

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Speak English only, Peter.

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Their work had extraordinary ambition.

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Scientists believed if they could talk to dolphins,

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they could even talk to extra-terrestrials.

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Are we alone in the universe?

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Are there other creatures out there that we might get to know?

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It wasn't science fiction.

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It was... "Wow, this is where we're going."

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But what started with '60s idealism

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would spiral into the darkness of the decade,

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and end in tragedy.

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"The worst experiment in the world,"

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I've read somewhere, was me and Peter.

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Until now,

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those involved have never spoken publicly about the experiment.

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But 50 years on, they've broken their silence

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to reveal just what happened within these walls.

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This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting

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Communication is what defines us as humans.

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We're a social species, which wants to talk to others,

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and not just other people.

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It's long been a human dream to be able to talk to the animals.

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Do this, Vicky.

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THEY BLOW AIR

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Early experiments in the 20th century involved

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trying to teach the great apes sign language,

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and even how to speak English.

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Another sound resembles the letter K.

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Vicky. Sit up, girl. Come on. Do this.

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THEY MAKE SOUNDS

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Vicky has to hold her hand over her nose.

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But by the end of the 1950s, there had been no real progress

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and serious scientific attempts to talk to the animals

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ground to a halt.

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There was one person, however, who hadn't given up.

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His name was John Lilly.

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John Lilly was a scientist, a visionary

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and, uh, maybe above all, an explorer.

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Explorer of the brain, the mind.

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Lilly's a fascinating character.

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He was a super smart,

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physics-oriented, Caltech grad,

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who during the Second World War,

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ends up working in an aviation physiology laboratory,

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doing experimental work on American pilots, monitoring data

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about heart rates and respiration.

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And then subsequently, as his research life develops,

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increasingly interested in animals.

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By the late '50s, Lilly was a respected brain-scientist

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working for the American National Institute Of Mental Health.

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If one believes that they not only

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have the brain to learn it, but the ears...

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His area of expertise was what brains of animals

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could tell us about our own.

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His wife, Mary, worked with him.

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He was always interested in brains.

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And he would find out what areas of the brains did what,

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that sort of thing.

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But it's easier to work on other species than humans.

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And there was one species whose brain fascinated Lilly

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above all others...

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..an animal which human beings believed was one of the cleverest

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and most ancient creatures on Earth -

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the bottlenose dolphin, also often called the porpoise.

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So, they've been here, you know, 25 million years.

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We haven't been here that long.

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We've only been here with our present brain size

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about two tenths of a million years.

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This is a big brain.

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This is a bigger brain than we're accustomed to working on.

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In fact, it's a bigger brain than a human brain!

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Lilly needed access to the dolphins' super-sized brains.

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And he found it in Florida.

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Leaping three feet out of the water

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and through a hoop is only one of the accomplishments of Flippy,

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the pride of the studios at Marine Land Florida.

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Flippy gets a big kick out of demonstrating his high IQ.

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Marine Studios in Florida

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is one of the first institutions in the post-war period to keep

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a bottlenose dolphin in captivity.

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Lilly makes his way down there in order to have access to

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some of these animals for experimental purposes.

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Lilly began doing brain experiments on the dolphins

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and recording their reactions.

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One day, in 1957, this research triggered a behaviour that

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would change the course of his life.

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The first to spot it was Mary.

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Whilst John and his team were working nearby,

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she noticed something they'd missed.

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I came in.

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I heard John talking and the porpoise would go

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"Awawawawawa," like John.

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Chee-chee. Chee-chee. More, more. Fish.

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And then I realised it was hearing their voices and imitating them.

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And I went down to where they were operating

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and told them that this was going on, and they were quite startled.

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More, more fish.

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DOLPHIN SQUEAKS

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Lilly was convinced the dolphin was imitating the humans,

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trying to speak to them.

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If he was right, it would be one

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of the greatest discoveries in the history of science.

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For the rest of his career, Lilly would write about and talk about

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that moment in 1957, where it all popped open for him.

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He thinks that this indicates ambition on their part

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to communicate with the beings around them that are human.

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A breakthrough of not just scientific, but potentially

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even world historic significance -

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humans were being displaced from their position

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atop the cosmos of intelligent creatures.

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We were not alone.

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DOLPHIN SQUEAKS

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"And now... here's Jack."

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Lilly believed his mimicking dolphins would revolutionise

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the science of animal communication.

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For the first time, here was another species which seemed to be

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trying to make contact with us.

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And in 1961, he published a book revealing his findings.

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John, what was the prediction in your book that caused such comment?

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I predicted that, within a decade or two,

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the human species would establish communication

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with another species.

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This is a scientist.

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This isn't some, you know, nut that I've brought out here!

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-This man knows... He may be a little nutty, I don't know.

-Thank you(!)

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But he's a real, acknowledged scientist.

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Now, roll this film and you're going to see some interesting things.

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These are some of the sounds they make.

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What in the main do you think dolphins talk among each other?

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Oh. Food, sex and danger.

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Sounds like Westport, Connecticut, to me, there.

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That's it, forward. Come on.

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Come on.

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That's it.

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Lilly's talking dolphins captured the public's imagination.

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But for one group of people, his work had special significance.

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'OK, it is in.'

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'Ignition.'

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'Blast off!'

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In the early '60s, America was in the midst of a space-race...

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..launching satellites and spacecraft to the Moon and planets.

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'That's as far as we go for EDA.

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'OK, they're free from EDA from here. Ready for decompression.'

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And surprisingly, Lilly's ideas chimed with this new space age.

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They'd caught the eye of a team of American astronomers

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who were searching for extra-terrestrial life.

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They were led by Frank Drake.

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It was a very exciting book

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because it had these new ideas -

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particularly the idea that there could be creatures

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as intelligent and sophisticated

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in their thinking as us,

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and yet living in a far different milieu.

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Drake and his team were part of an official, government-funded

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project to use radio telescopes to listen for signals from other

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intelligent life in the galaxy.

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For them, Lilly's work was potentially groundbreaking.

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The possible intelligence of dolphins was of special interest to me

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and the others who were interested in extraterrestrial intelligent life

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because we wanted to understand as much as we could about

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what the challenges were going to be in communicating

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with other intelligent species.

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There might be other civilisations in space attempting to send us

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messages.

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The detection of extraterrestrial signals

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are going to be one of the most exciting things

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that ever happened.

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Here was perhaps an example of another intelligent species,

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very different from us -

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its vocal system was very different, its means of communicating

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any information was different.

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It would tell us what was important,

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what we should specialise in,

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what we should learn as much as we can about

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if we were to understand extraterrestrial intelligent life.

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'Four, three, two...

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'All engines ready.'

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Lilly realised the astronomers' interest opened up an opportunity.

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America's space programme was extremely well-funded through NASA.

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Here was his chance to get funding for a whole new phase of research.

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Lilly brilliantly pitches the space administration

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on the idea that they need

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a model organism

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upon which to experiment

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for the prospect of an encounter with aliens.

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NASA backed Lilly with many thousands of dollars.

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And with financial support from other government agencies

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like the US Navy,

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he commissioned the lab of his dreams.

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At St Thomas in the Virgin Islands, stands a unique laboratory...

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In 1961, Lilly built a white, modern villa right on the shore

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of St Thomas', one of the American Virgin Islands in the Caribbean.

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This was the Dolphin House.

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Here, a thousand miles from the American mainland,

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he would now focus on research into human communication with dolphins.

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Lilly had discovered that dolphins become quickly responsive

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to human companions.

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In daily playtime, they develop intense friendships,

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often prefer people to other dolphins...

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But Lilly would need a team to help him carry out the work.

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Lilly was charismatic,

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and he attracted some brilliant and hardworking people.

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He recruits a very significant figure - Gregory Bateson,

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an anthropologist - who rounds out his team for thinking

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big about these animals.

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Gregory Bateson was an intellectual giant of his time.

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He had explored subjects like linguistics

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and human anthropology at Cambridge and Sydney Universities.

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Now he was looking for an opportunity to study

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animal behaviour.

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I worked as an anthropologist.

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I looked around and I was clear

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I didn't want to live in a lab.

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Gregory had been doing

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behavioural work - not only with humans but with

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otters. And we had in our house 17 octopuses.

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And we were studying their personal relationships.

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Which was interesting.

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Bateson's area of interest wasn't humans communicating with

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animals, but rather how animals communicated with each other.

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But in 1963, he was persuaded by Lilly to move his family out

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to St Thomas' - including his 11-year-old stepson.

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My Dad was much more interested in

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the interaction between the dolphins.

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Looking at the posture of pectoral fins - I mean,

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does this mean something? Or the...uh, the alignment

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of two animals swimming together,

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is this sexual or is this just friendship

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or is this just waiting to be fed?

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The house was built over a single outdoor pool

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where the dolphins would live.

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Linked to the sea, it was cleaned by the tide.

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Lilly's new lab offered the best conditions

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possible for the animals in captivity.

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And a window would allow Bateson to observe the creatures underwater.

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I actually thought it was fantastic.

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I mean, the water was absolutely crystal. That was neat.

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I mean, it was just... It was all new. It was exotic.

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That's the best word I can say for it.

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The island's vet was also enlisted to ensure

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the wellbeing of Lilly's dolphins.

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Dr Lilly called me.

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And he put me through an interview.

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His concern was the health of his animals.

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He wanted to be sure that I could relate

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to the dolphins by putting me in the water with them.

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And then, early in 1964, the lab had a visitor.

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Margaret Howe was an attractive, 22-year-old college dropout

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who had come to St Thomas' in search of adventure.

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She'd heard rumours about a strange house at the end of the island

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which had dolphins.

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I was curious and I drove out and found signs saying, "Keep Out."

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It was pretty isolated.

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And I said, "Well, I heard you had dolphins here and I thought I'd come

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"and see if there's anything I can do or if there's any way I could help."

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Gregory Bateson sat me at the top of this spiral staircase,

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where you could just look down and he said, "Just sit here

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"and write what you think is happening, what you see."

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You begin to think...

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There's things going on other than just the prettiness of it all.

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One of them is in front. One is in the back.

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One is above. One is below.

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One jumped. The other one went ahead.

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And after an hour, I figured that out and started writing that.

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Gregory Bateson said, "I like the way you wrote that.

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"You think well on your feet."

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He said, "You're able to see things.

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"You can come here any time you want.

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"We can't pay you, but you can come here.

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"Would you like to do that?"

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"Yes," I said.

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"Yes, thank you! I will come back here any time."

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So I did.

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Margaret Howe rounded off Lilly's human team.

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But it was the dolphins that everyone was there to study.

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Lilly brought them from Marine Studios in Miami.

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Before coming to the Virgin Islands, they'd also been used in filming

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the movie Flipper.

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There were three animals at the VI lab.

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Peter, Pamela and Sissy.

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Sissy was the biggest one.

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She was pushy, loud.

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Sort of ran the show.

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So I had... Most of my relationship was with Sissy.

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Very social.

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Pam, she wouldn't come near anybody.

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It took a full year before I was able to get close enough to her

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to stroke her.

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You are drawn to an animal who is shy and a little fearful.

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It makes you feel good when they will come

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and you can help them over that.

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And that was Pamela.

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And then there was one male dolphin.

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Peter was an immature male. I don't think he was fully mature.

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He was different.

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He was definitely a young guy.

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Sexually coming of age, I'm sure, and

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liked Sissy. And Sissy was always having to... Bip!

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She'd... Bip! Flip him off like that.

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And that's who they were.

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By February, 1964, the lab was in full operation.

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Lilly was often away travelling, publicising his work or

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raising funds, so left much of the research to the others.

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He charged Margaret with picking up the mimicry work

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where he'd left off.

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It was her job to encourage the dolphins to copy the specific

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sounds of human speech.

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They can click and squeak and whistle

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and do all the dolphin noises, and there are many.

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But this human-like sound, humanoid they call it, not underwater,

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in the air, and through the blowhole.

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The blow hole, where they force air out of the lungs,

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and the lips on the blow hole, actually open and closing,

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and they can talk that way, if you want to call it talking.

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Margaret began to focus on one of the dolphins in particular -

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the male.

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I really chose to work with Peter

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because he'd not had any human-like sound training.

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The other two had.

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My first goal was to get him to listen while I speak.

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And then I would listen while he speaks and we would set up this

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conversation-type thing where we could make some sort of progress.

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Today is January 27th. The time is 09.00 hours.

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PETER CLICKS

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Much of the work in the Dolphin House was captured on tape,

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and these are the real sound recordings of Margaret's lessons.

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A, E, I, O.

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PETER SQUEAKS

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But from the start, Peter was a reluctant pupil.

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Speak for fish.

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Don't squirt.

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He would listen to me.

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And I would say, "No, no, no, no, Peter.

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"What I want you to do is count to three.

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"You're going to say one, two, three,"

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and Peter wouldn't repeat everything I told him,

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he would work on the "eh, oh, eeyr..."

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HE SQUEAKS

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Listen. One, two, three.

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HE WARBLES

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You can do better, Peter.

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Yeah, we had a few disagreements on things.

0:20:480:20:51

He could slap his tail.

0:20:510:20:54

You know when a dolphin is annoyed.

0:20:540:20:56

"One, two, three, I've already done that. I..."

0:20:570:21:00

"One, two, three, I told you I've...

0:21:000:21:01

"I'm going to do it one more time. One, two, three, and now that's it."

0:21:010:21:04

And he'd disappear.

0:21:040:21:06

HE SQUEAKS LOUDLY

0:21:060:21:10

The mimicry work seemed to have stalled.

0:21:160:21:18

But then Margaret had an idea.

0:21:180:21:20

It was very ambitious.

0:21:200:21:23

Every night we would all get in our cars and pull the garage door down

0:21:230:21:28

and click it and everybody would drive away.

0:21:280:21:31

And I thought, "Well, there's this big brain,

0:21:310:21:34

"three big brains floating around all night.

0:21:340:21:36

"What's really going on?"

0:21:360:21:40

And it amazed me that everyone kept leaving.

0:21:400:21:43

And I said, "That's craziness."

0:21:430:21:45

I said, "I will stay and I will do this."

0:21:450:21:48

And Lilly said, "What's that?"

0:21:480:21:50

I said, "I want to plaster everything

0:21:500:21:52

"and fill this place with water.

0:21:520:21:55

"I want to live here with Peter."

0:21:550:21:59

And Lilly got very excited.

0:22:020:22:05

And he went for it.

0:22:050:22:06

Margaret drew up radical plans for the house.

0:22:150:22:18

She began completely redesigning the layout of the upstairs rooms,

0:22:180:22:23

altering their shape

0:22:230:22:25

and making them waterproof.

0:22:250:22:27

The building had not been built to flood.

0:22:270:22:30

And we're gonna flood the place comfortably - knee deep,

0:22:300:22:33

a little bit deeper.

0:22:330:22:35

I didn't want to just be indoors for so long, so the balcony as well.

0:22:350:22:39

We flooded it and it kept leaking, so we had to drain it all

0:22:430:22:47

and plaster it up again. It took a while.

0:22:470:22:49

They had a giant elevator.

0:22:550:22:57

You'd get the animal on the elevator with a sling under it.

0:22:570:23:02

That's how the animal got up and down.

0:23:020:23:05

Margaret had created a domestic dolphinarium,

0:23:060:23:10

where she and Peter could live together

0:23:100:23:13

in a semi-aquatic environment.

0:23:130:23:16

I had a desk hanging from the ceiling, a telephone,

0:23:160:23:20

and a little stove I could make tea.

0:23:200:23:22

I was on a foam cushion and Peter would sleep next to me,

0:23:240:23:30

and he would sleep as long as I did.

0:23:300:23:33

And I lived there day and night.

0:23:330:23:36

And it was perfect.

0:23:360:23:39

And so, Margaret's extraordinary experiment began.

0:23:390:23:43

Over the coming months, she would live with Peter

0:23:430:23:45

in the Dolphin House almost full-time.

0:23:450:23:49

Margaret would immerse him completely in her world

0:23:490:23:52

to try to teach him English, like a mother teaching a child to speak.

0:23:520:23:57

One, two, three, four.

0:24:000:24:03

These are the audio recordings she made.

0:24:030:24:06

Today is...

0:24:060:24:07

HE SQUEAKS August 18th.

0:24:070:24:10

This is the morning lesson with Peter.

0:24:100:24:13

Hello.

0:24:140:24:15

HE WARBLES

0:24:150:24:18

No. Hello.

0:24:180:24:19

HE WARBLES

0:24:190:24:23

Clearly, Peter.

0:24:230:24:24

HE WARBLES PARTLY UNDERWATER

0:24:240:24:27

What's all the bluh-bluh-bluh-bluh? Come on!

0:24:270:24:30

I didn't talk to Peter the way I talk to you.

0:24:300:24:33

I...

0:24:330:24:35

I spoke in single words usually

0:24:350:24:37

and made inflection, something that he could follow.

0:24:370:24:41

That they were very good at.

0:24:410:24:42

The enunciation was not good.

0:24:420:24:45

But if I said, "One, two, THREE."

0:24:450:24:50

I...I wouldn't get one, two, three,

0:24:500:24:52

but I would get, "Wah, urwah, REHR."

0:24:520:24:58

One, two, THREE.

0:24:580:25:00

Ehr, ehr, ehr.

0:25:000:25:02

Good boy.

0:25:020:25:03

Hard as Peter tried,

0:25:050:25:07

there were still some anatomical restrictions

0:25:070:25:10

that limited his speech.

0:25:100:25:12

"M" is very difficult.

0:25:120:25:14

My name, you know, "Hello, Margaret," I worked on.

0:25:140:25:18

And M is just impossible,

0:25:180:25:21

but he eventually rolled over so that it kind of... "Bwah..."

0:25:210:25:26

He would bubble it into the water.

0:25:260:25:28

Mmmm...

0:25:280:25:32

Margaret.

0:25:320:25:34

Ahee-aaheeee.

0:25:340:25:37

Oh, he just couldn't get it right!

0:25:370:25:38

And he just would try and he would try. God!

0:25:380:25:41

To help with Peter's pronunciation,

0:25:430:25:45

Margaret wanted to draw his attention to the movement

0:25:450:25:47

of her mouth and lips.

0:25:470:25:49

His blowhole and my mouth

0:25:510:25:55

sort of were trying to do the same thing,

0:25:550:25:58

I actually put a white make-up -

0:25:580:26:01

thick white and black around my mouth -

0:26:010:26:06

so that when I was talking to him

0:26:060:26:09

or teaching a word,

0:26:090:26:12

he could really see my blowhole, as it were,

0:26:120:26:15

and I would...

0:26:150:26:18

really use my mouth, with this make-up on it,

0:26:180:26:20

and his eye was in air looking at my mouth,

0:26:200:26:23

I mean, no question about it. He wanted to know,

0:26:230:26:26

"Where is that noise coming from? What is that sound?"

0:26:260:26:30

Fish in buck-et.

0:26:300:26:32

HE SQUEAKS

0:26:320:26:36

During his visits back to the Dolphin House,

0:26:360:26:38

Lilly was delighted by Margaret's progress.

0:26:380:26:42

I feel armed with a kind of knowledge...

0:26:420:26:46

..that we could never have obtained...

0:26:470:26:50

..except through these experiments.

0:26:510:26:55

This must be supported

0:26:550:26:58

and enthusiastically encouraged.

0:26:580:27:00

He was very enthusiastic about it. We were very together.

0:27:020:27:05

I felt very supported and encouraged to do more.

0:27:050:27:10

But not everyone was as enthusiastic about Margaret's experiments.

0:27:100:27:15

Whilst the Batesons were happy to swim with the dolphins,

0:27:150:27:18

they weren't keen to teach them English.

0:27:180:27:20

Lois' husband, Gregory, doubted its scientific merit.

0:27:200:27:24

He felt his research on dolphin-to-dolphin communication

0:27:240:27:27

in the sea pool downstairs was of more value

0:27:270:27:30

than Margaret's work with Peter.

0:27:300:27:32

We liked Margaret.

0:27:320:27:34

She was certainly trying to see

0:27:340:27:36

if they could be trained to speak English

0:27:360:27:40

SHE CHUCKLES

0:27:400:27:42

Which was an ambitious plan.

0:27:420:27:44

It was interesting, but, you know, it wasn't...

0:27:440:27:47

It wasn't our cup of tea.

0:27:470:27:49

Despite the Bateson's doubts, Margaret persevered.

0:27:500:27:53

She began using Peter's curiosity and playfulness to keep him

0:27:530:27:57

interested in the lessons.

0:27:570:27:58

Whatever I brought to him,

0:27:580:28:00

whether it was me or an object

0:28:000:28:04

or just my time or my voice,

0:28:040:28:06

he was interested in that.

0:28:060:28:09

Uh, and that's very appealing.

0:28:090:28:11

Whether it was a ball or a toy or a square shape or whatever

0:28:110:28:17

I was interested in, he would have to turn to that.

0:28:170:28:21

And he did.

0:28:210:28:23

He loved to look at different shapes and...

0:28:230:28:26

and different sets of things and little toys.

0:28:260:28:29

Let's go through all our toys, Peter.

0:28:290:28:32

-Ball.

-Baaah-ba.

0:28:320:28:35

Good.

0:28:350:28:37

Oblong.

0:28:370:28:38

-Ah-aaaaah.

-Good!

0:28:380:28:41

Triangle.

0:28:410:28:43

Ah-ah-ah.

0:28:430:28:45

Oh, nice, Peter! Beautiful!

0:28:450:28:49

We just hit it off. We had that connection.

0:28:490:28:52

We were a team and it...it just worked.

0:28:540:28:58

SATELLITE SOUNDS

0:28:580:29:00

Margaret's progress with Peter also intrigued the astronomers.

0:29:000:29:04

They wanted to know whether the experiment to talk to another

0:29:070:29:10

species was producing results.

0:29:100:29:12

In the summer of 1965, they dispatched the famous

0:29:160:29:20

astronomer, Carl Sagan.

0:29:200:29:21

It's possible,

0:29:230:29:24

but by no means certain that life on many of these planets

0:29:240:29:27

evolves into beings

0:29:270:29:29

which are as advanced as we, or more advanced.

0:29:290:29:33

Carl, I think, was into anything that had anything to do with

0:29:330:29:36

trying to speak to anything alien.

0:29:360:29:40

Dolphins, they're another species, in a different environment

0:29:420:29:45

and in that regard, I think, the space people were interested.

0:29:450:29:50

-Hello.

-Ah-oh.

0:29:510:29:53

Oh! I like it, I like it, I like it, Peter!

0:29:530:29:57

Good boy.

0:29:570:29:58

It was clear to Sagan

0:29:590:30:01

and the astronomers that despite Margaret's progress,

0:30:010:30:04

Peter was a long way from being able to understand and use English.

0:30:040:30:07

So instead of teaching the dolphins a human language,

0:30:090:30:12

like the Batesons, they suggested Lilly try to find out

0:30:120:30:16

how dolphins communicate with each other.

0:30:160:30:18

A prime experiment we suggested to him

0:30:180:30:20

was to reveal just how complicated a message

0:30:200:30:24

one dolphin could communicate with another dolphin.

0:30:240:30:27

And so we would suggest to have two dolphins,

0:30:270:30:30

one in each tank of water, separately,

0:30:300:30:33

not able to see each other,

0:30:330:30:35

but to be able to hear any phonations - one to the other -

0:30:350:30:39

and that he should teach one dolphin

0:30:390:30:42

some procedure by which it could

0:30:420:30:46

obtain food

0:30:460:30:48

and then see if it could tell the other dolphin

0:30:480:30:51

how to do the same thing in its tank.

0:30:510:30:53

This was a prime experiment to be done,

0:30:530:30:56

but he was never able to do it.

0:30:560:30:58

Ball.

0:30:580:30:59

Instead, Lilly instructed Margaret to continue her lessons with Peter.

0:30:590:31:04

Ball.

0:31:040:31:06

Ball.

0:31:060:31:08

Ball.

0:31:080:31:10

-Eh-ho.

-No.

0:31:100:31:13

Ball.

0:31:130:31:14

-Ahll.

-That's it! Yes!

0:31:140:31:18

Now you're getting there.

0:31:180:31:20

His vocalisation got better.

0:31:200:31:22

It was never clear, uh,

0:31:220:31:26

but it had control and it had tone

0:31:260:31:29

and it had space between the words.

0:31:290:31:32

The effort was there and that's what impressed me.

0:31:320:31:34

Ahll.

0:31:340:31:35

SHE CLAPS You're a good boy, yes, you are!

0:31:350:31:40

Thank you, Peter.

0:31:400:31:42

Margaret's lessons with Peter upstairs in the flooded house

0:31:430:31:47

ran for six days a week.

0:31:470:31:49

But on their day off,

0:31:490:31:50

they would join the others downstairs in the sea pool for fun.

0:31:500:31:54

One day, Andy Williamson brought his dog, Suki, to the house,

0:31:540:31:58

an encounter they captured on film.

0:31:580:32:00

Suki came into The Dolphin House,

0:32:020:32:04

the door was open into the pool.

0:32:040:32:07

And she saw me in the water.

0:32:090:32:10

And next thing I knew,

0:32:100:32:13

she took a little flying leap right into the pool.

0:32:130:32:16

And Andy and I are just shocked! And we thought, "Oh, my God!"

0:32:180:32:21

Peter passed her a couple of times and rubbed against her.

0:32:220:32:26

And Suki went crazy.

0:32:260:32:30

She was quivering. Her little ears were going like this,

0:32:300:32:33

she was just... And Andy was holding her.

0:32:330:32:35

Peter came up and stuck his beak right up,

0:32:380:32:41

made a couple of squeaks or clicking sounds.

0:32:410:32:46

And Suki went off Andy's shoulder.

0:32:460:32:50

Dachshunds, the way they are built with short little legs,

0:32:500:32:53

I mean, she kind of sank a bit.

0:32:530:32:55

Started paddling around.

0:32:550:32:57

The dog was having fun and the dolphins were having fun,

0:32:580:33:01

they were all having a party.

0:33:010:33:02

Life went on at the Dolphin House.

0:33:110:33:14

But back on the mainland, Lilly's interests were shifting.

0:33:140:33:18

MUSIC: "Eight Miles High" by The Byrds

0:33:180:33:21

It was the mid-1960s

0:33:240:33:26

and a new mind-altering drug had been invented - LSD.

0:33:260:33:30

# Eight miles high

0:33:300:33:34

# And when you touch down

0:33:340:33:38

# You'll find that it's stranger

0:33:380:33:41

# Than known

0:33:410:33:45

# Signs in... #

0:33:450:33:46

Brain scientist Lilly became obsessed by how humans

0:33:460:33:50

reacted to it.

0:33:500:33:51

And he began experimenting on himself,

0:33:510:33:54

convinced that it offered exciting new opportunities

0:33:540:33:57

to explore the mind.

0:33:570:33:59

There was one time where he said,

0:34:040:34:07

"All right, I'm going to go up and inject the LSD."

0:34:070:34:12

And I said, "Whoa!

0:34:120:34:14

"I will have nothing to do with that.

0:34:140:34:17

"And I will stay out of that, and you stay out of my business,"

0:34:170:34:20

which was dolphins.

0:34:200:34:22

I could see the difference in John Lilly.

0:34:220:34:24

He went from being, you know, a guy with a tie and a white coat

0:34:240:34:28

and a scientist in his laboratory to

0:34:280:34:31

a full blown hippie after a while.

0:34:310:34:34

He was a real explorer of those drugs that

0:34:350:34:39

expand our consciousness, you know.

0:34:390:34:41

I don't know there were too many

0:34:410:34:42

people with his...his expertise

0:34:420:34:45

and his scientific background that was doing that kind of work.

0:34:450:34:48

John's self-experimentation with LSD was becoming a concern for Margaret.

0:34:480:34:54

But something else was affecting her work with Peter.

0:34:560:35:00

They have sexual urges.

0:35:000:35:03

I'm sure Peter had plenty of thoughts along those lines.

0:35:050:35:09

Peter liked to be...with me.

0:35:090:35:12

He would rub himself on my knee or my foot or my hand or...

0:35:120:35:17

whatever, and I allowed that. I wasn't uncomfortable with that,

0:35:170:35:20

as long as it wasn't too rough.

0:35:200:35:22

Peter had caused Margaret some

0:35:220:35:26

minor injuries on her legs and stuff

0:35:260:35:29

of pushing like an obsessed suitor.

0:35:290:35:33

In the beginning, when he would get rambunctious and had this need,

0:35:330:35:37

I would put him on the elevator and say,

0:35:370:35:39

"You go play with the girls for a day."

0:35:390:35:41

HE SQUEAKS

0:35:410:35:44

But as Peter's urges grew more frequent,

0:35:470:35:50

the process of transporting him down to the two female dolphins

0:35:500:35:53

to satisfy him proved disruptive.

0:35:530:35:55

And Margaret felt the best way of focusing his mind

0:36:020:36:05

back on the lessons, was to relieve his desires herself manually.

0:36:050:36:09

It was just easier to incorporate that and let it happen.

0:36:100:36:15

It was very, uh, precious.

0:36:150:36:18

It was very gentle.

0:36:180:36:20

Peter was right there.

0:36:200:36:21

He knew that I was right there.

0:36:210:36:23

Again, it was sexual on his part, it was not sexual on mine.

0:36:230:36:27

Sensuous perhaps.

0:36:270:36:28

It had just become part of what was going on.

0:36:280:36:31

Like an itch, you just get rid of that.

0:36:310:36:33

"We'll scratch it and we'll be done, move on."

0:36:330:36:35

And that's really all it was.

0:36:350:36:39

I was there to get to know Peter, that was part of Peter.

0:36:390:36:43

It was great that she wasn't going to be damaged by that,

0:36:430:36:47

but, as a veterinarian,

0:36:470:36:50

I wondered about poor Peter.

0:36:500:36:52

This dolphin was madly in love with her.

0:36:520:36:56

Margaret.

0:36:560:36:58

Ahee-aaheeee.

0:36:580:37:01

Margaret and Peter's relationship was continuing to deepen.

0:37:010:37:05

But with his ringside seat at the Dolphin House,

0:37:050:37:08

anthropologist Gregory Bateson was now seriously questioning

0:37:080:37:12

the value of Lilly's work.

0:37:120:37:14

My dad had, I think,

0:37:140:37:15

a pretty firm and clear view that this was a kind of circus trick.

0:37:150:37:20

For Bateson, Peter was simply copying Margaret's sounds

0:37:200:37:23

with no real comprehension of what he was saying.

0:37:230:37:27

I can't see why anybody in their right mind would think...

0:37:270:37:30

..they were going to be able to teach or learn to speak

0:37:320:37:37

in some common language.

0:37:370:37:40

You're not demonstrating anything about an animal's capacity

0:37:400:37:43

for language by getting them to master some part of your language.

0:37:430:37:48

You want to find out whether they have language,

0:37:490:37:51

you want to find out what they have for their language.

0:37:510:37:54

Come right out with the English, Peter.

0:37:570:38:00

Don't even think in your own language.

0:38:000:38:03

English all the time.

0:38:030:38:05

-Margaret.

-Ah-ah.

0:38:060:38:09

Better. Thank you, Peter.

0:38:090:38:11

Like Gregory Bateson, Lilly's funders were also having

0:38:130:38:16

doubts about the value of the work.

0:38:160:38:19

And from 1965, in the absence of more impressive results,

0:38:190:38:23

they were starting to pull out.

0:38:230:38:26

Any of the work with dolphins was very difficult -

0:38:260:38:29

time consuming, expensive -

0:38:290:38:31

and at that time, John was not adequately financed

0:38:310:38:35

to really conduct the experiments that needed to be done.

0:38:350:38:38

As funding for the Dolphin House looked increasingly shaky,

0:38:410:38:44

Lilly was becoming desperate for results to impress his backers.

0:38:440:38:48

He turned to the one experiment he had so far resisted.

0:38:480:38:53

Why wouldn't you go ahead and use this very powerful drug

0:38:530:38:58

that has been used to facilitate psychotherapy,

0:38:580:39:01

namely LSD?

0:39:010:39:03

Take a little bit yourself so you're a little more open

0:39:050:39:07

to the alien world of the other and...

0:39:070:39:10

and heck while you're at it,

0:39:100:39:12

give a little bit to the dolphin so that they're a little bit more

0:39:120:39:15

kind of open to the communicative world of the other themselves.

0:39:150:39:19

Lilly hoped that giving the dolphins LSD would have a dramatic effect.

0:39:220:39:26

In a note to Gregory Bateson, he even wondered

0:39:290:39:32

if it might cause the animals to stop breathing.

0:39:320:39:36

LSD's a pretty powerful, psychedelic drug,

0:39:360:39:40

and I had no idea how the dolphins would react to that.

0:39:400:39:45

I mean, humans didn't always react to it very well, so, you know...

0:39:450:39:48

Despite these uncertainties about the consequences,

0:39:520:39:55

Lilly became obsessed with giving LSD to the dolphins.

0:39:550:39:57

My first thought was, "Not Peter."

0:40:000:40:03

I just said, "Not Peter."

0:40:030:40:04

What was I? 24 or something.

0:40:070:40:10

And it was his stuff, it was his animals, it was his pool.

0:40:100:40:14

I can't stop him.

0:40:140:40:15

Lilly coerced Margaret into being an assistant to his LSD experiment

0:40:180:40:22

on the dolphins.

0:40:220:40:23

And he pulled back and he said, "OK, not Peter."

0:40:250:40:29

We pulled Peter out of the sea pool where they were.

0:40:290:40:32

So Pam and Sissy were in the sea pool.

0:40:330:40:35

And John did inject them with LSD.

0:40:390:40:41

-LILLY:

-10:06pm.

0:40:440:40:46

Different species react in different ways.

0:40:590:41:02

Playing with pharmaceuticals is tricky business to say the least.

0:41:040:41:09

We didn't know what was going to happen.

0:41:100:41:12

And we certainly weren't prepared for anything to happen.

0:41:120:41:15

The dolphins were circling,

0:41:200:41:23

and John occasionally glanced

0:41:230:41:26

and said, "Oh, well, it's only been ten minutes."

0:41:260:41:29

And nothing was going on and it's been, well, 20 minutes now.

0:41:310:41:34

Nothing was going on, nothing, nothing, nothing happened, period.

0:41:360:41:40

Lilly was desperate to provoke a response.

0:41:430:41:45

He came up with a bizarre and cruel idea,

0:41:460:41:49

which shows how far he'd now come from genuine scientific research.

0:41:490:41:54

Dolphins have extraordinarily sensitive hearing,

0:41:550:41:58

using sound waves to sense their environment.

0:41:580:42:01

Could he use that to trigger a reaction?

0:42:030:42:06

And then John disappeared, and he went to the other side

0:42:060:42:10

and he picked up a jackhammer.

0:42:100:42:13

Jackhammer makes a big "thunk" going through the earth

0:42:130:42:17

and the cement and the rock and...

0:42:170:42:19

And he just started jackhammering,

0:42:210:42:23

which had everything sort of shaking.

0:42:230:42:25

And still nothing happened.

0:42:290:42:31

So that was sort of the end of it.

0:42:310:42:33

It just confirmed for me that John Lilly and I,

0:42:350:42:39

we were...we're very different.

0:42:390:42:41

For Gregory Bateson,

0:42:420:42:43

Lilly's use of LSD on the dolphins was the last straw.

0:42:430:42:47

He packed up the family and left.

0:42:470:42:50

St Thomas was really an impossible place to work.

0:42:530:42:56

And I actually don't think he felt like he made much progress

0:42:560:43:00

that year in St Thomas.

0:43:000:43:01

We had learned as much as we could from that particular setting

0:43:010:43:06

in St Thomas

0:43:060:43:07

and we just felt it was time to go.

0:43:070:43:11

With the Batesons gone and funding turned off,

0:43:130:43:15

by the summer of 1966, Lilly was running up large debts.

0:43:150:43:20

And in his LSD-fuelled world,

0:43:200:43:22

his attention was drifting away.

0:43:220:43:25

He lost focus on it,

0:43:250:43:28

and the drug culture and the LSD took his interest away.

0:43:280:43:34

It did fall apart at the end.

0:43:340:43:36

Badly.

0:43:360:43:38

The Dolphin House would have to close.

0:43:390:43:42

But decommissioning it would not be easy.

0:43:420:43:44

When you're dealing with live subjects,

0:43:480:43:52

whether they're rats or monkeys or dolphins,

0:43:520:43:57

what do you do with them after...

0:43:570:43:59

..after the experiments are over?

0:44:000:44:03

There was nothing we could do about it.

0:44:030:44:05

Lilly decided the dolphins would be transported to the US mainland,

0:44:060:44:09

to live in another private lab he ran outside Miami.

0:44:090:44:14

It would be the end of Margaret and Peter's relationship.

0:44:140:44:18

He wasn't mine. I couldn't keep him.

0:44:180:44:21

We couldn't elope, you know.

0:44:230:44:25

We couldn't rush off into the sea and disappear and hide.

0:44:250:44:28

You just can't do that.

0:44:280:44:30

It's a very expensive business, having a dolphin.

0:44:300:44:35

If he'd been a cat or a dog, I could have made a deal and kept him,

0:44:350:44:38

but, uh... How do you do that?

0:44:380:44:41

After months of living almost continuously with Peter,

0:44:440:44:48

the experiment was over.

0:44:480:44:49

It was time for Margaret to say goodbye.

0:44:500:44:53

I went back to the lab and spent the evening

0:44:530:44:57

and the night with Peter.

0:44:570:44:59

Being in the water with him, and just that sweetness.

0:45:010:45:06

It was very special and privileged.

0:45:060:45:10

Somebody who really wants you to be there

0:45:110:45:14

and sometimes is just comforted by the fact that you are there.

0:45:140:45:17

That was misty-eyed, because at that point, I knew...

0:45:220:45:27

..and Peter didn't know,

0:45:280:45:31

but I knew that that was the end.

0:45:310:45:33

In October 1966, the dolphins were loaded into travelling tanks

0:45:460:45:50

to be flown to Lilly's lab on the mainland.

0:45:500:45:52

Seeing that plane take off and circle - I didn't go with them -

0:45:550:45:58

that was emotional.

0:45:580:46:00

Margaret and Andy believed the animals had gone to a good home.

0:46:020:46:06

I was told that they were shipped some place where

0:46:080:46:11

they would be very happy.

0:46:110:46:12

I was told he arrived healthy, that they had him checked by a vet.

0:46:140:46:18

In reality,

0:46:220:46:24

this is the building outside Miami where the dolphins were moved to.

0:46:240:46:27

THEY SQUEAL

0:46:270:46:30

With little or no natural light and tiny, cramped tanks,

0:46:300:46:34

this nightmarish room was a very different environment

0:46:340:46:37

to the Dolphin House.

0:46:370:46:38

Lilly's friend Ric O'Barry remembers once visiting the labs.

0:46:400:46:44

It was awful, to be frank. It was awful.

0:46:440:46:48

The first thing that hit you... Bff! ..was that smell.

0:46:480:46:51

Dolphins urinate and defecate

0:46:550:46:58

three to five times the quantity people will,

0:46:580:47:01

so you can imagine the stench of having dolphins

0:47:010:47:03

inside of that small room,

0:47:030:47:06

in a plastic, portable swimming pool.

0:47:060:47:10

And the chlorine... Copper sulphate, chlorine, heavily chlorinated...

0:47:110:47:15

Yeah, it was awful. It was awful.

0:47:170:47:20

THEY SQUEAL

0:47:210:47:24

Back at the Dolphin House, Margaret was oblivious

0:47:290:47:32

to the conditions the dolphins were now being kept in.

0:47:320:47:35

Weeks passed, and then Margaret received a phone call about Peter.

0:47:360:47:41

I got that phone call.

0:47:420:47:43

From John Lilly.

0:47:450:47:46

John called me himself to...to tell me.

0:47:460:47:49

And he said he committed suicide.

0:47:490:47:52

Suicide.

0:47:560:47:57

And I use that word with some trepidation,

0:47:570:48:02

at the risk of sounding anthropomorphic, but

0:48:020:48:06

it does describe what is indeed self-induced asphyxiation.

0:48:060:48:12

They're not automatic air breathers like we are.

0:48:140:48:17

Every breath is a conscious effort.

0:48:170:48:20

If life becomes too unbearable,

0:48:200:48:24

the dolphins just take a breath...

0:48:240:48:27

And they sink to the bottom. They don't take that next breath.

0:48:270:48:30

The shock of being moved from the Dolphin House had been too much.

0:48:320:48:36

Peter, it seems, had died of a broken heart.

0:48:360:48:39

You could think that Margaret could rationalise it,

0:48:410:48:46

but when she left, could Peter?

0:48:460:48:50

Here's the love of his life, gone.

0:48:520:48:55

50 years of ocean and storms have taken their toll

0:49:110:49:14

on the Dolphin House.

0:49:140:49:17

RECORDING OF MARGARET: I must eat my fish.

0:49:170:49:20

Today, this derelict shell is all that remains of the building which

0:49:200:49:24

housed the strangest experiment in the history of animal science.

0:49:240:49:28

The ruins of the Dolphin House...

0:49:290:49:32

It's easy to see, in that brokenness,

0:49:320:49:35

the...pathetic brokenness

0:49:350:49:38

of Lilly's own extraordinary ambition.

0:49:380:49:41

Boy.

0:49:410:49:43

PETER CLICKS AND SQUEAKS

0:49:430:49:45

Lovely!

0:49:450:49:47

People who study language aren't really persuaded

0:49:470:49:50

that his claims about dolphin talking

0:49:500:49:55

are really informed by the best work

0:49:550:49:57

in the study of language itself.

0:49:570:49:59

Instead, today's leading animal language experts believe what

0:50:010:50:05

happened at the Dolphin House was in reality a sophisticated

0:50:050:50:09

mimicry experiment.

0:50:090:50:10

Listen.

0:50:120:50:13

Fish in Buck-et.

0:50:130:50:16

Your parrot says, "Polly want a cracker,"

0:50:190:50:22

and you give that parrot a cracker,

0:50:220:50:26

have you broken through to an alien species?

0:50:260:50:29

Fish in Buck-et.

0:50:290:50:32

-Ah-ah-ah!

-Yes!

0:50:320:50:36

Peter could copy Margaret's sounds

0:50:360:50:38

and relate them to objects and people.

0:50:380:50:42

What he couldn't do was use the words to communicate

0:50:420:50:44

spontaneously back to her.

0:50:440:50:47

He listens to me so well!

0:50:470:50:50

Listen.

0:50:500:50:53

Margaret.

0:50:530:50:54

Margaret.

0:50:550:50:57

Margaret.

0:50:580:50:59

Ah-aaaaah.

0:50:590:51:02

Listen, listen.

0:51:020:51:05

For Margaret, this was simply because the experiment

0:51:050:51:08

was stopped too early.

0:51:080:51:10

She believes Peter's progress was far more advanced than

0:51:100:51:13

a human infant's would have been after the same coaching.

0:51:130:51:17

And with more time,

0:51:170:51:19

she feels she would have taken his communication to the next level.

0:51:190:51:23

Six months.

0:51:230:51:24

You have a six-month-old baby, they're doing that? No.

0:51:240:51:27

You're talking to them all the time, sleeping with them,

0:51:270:51:30

hugging them, cuddling them, Are they doing that? No.

0:51:300:51:33

It's nothing. But people are impatient.

0:51:330:51:37

Do more, do more.

0:51:370:51:38

Despite the failure of the Dolphin House,

0:51:430:51:46

throughout the '70s and '80s,

0:51:460:51:47

Lilly's desire to communicate with dolphins continued.

0:51:470:51:50

Some of his research was bizarrely mystical,

0:51:530:51:55

like this attempt to try to contact them telepathically.

0:51:550:51:58

HE PLAYS THE KEYBOARD

0:51:580:52:01

Lilly was based in California,

0:52:010:52:03

and other experiments attracted high-profile celebrity interest.

0:52:030:52:07

We have this wonderful opportunity to explore communicating with

0:52:070:52:12

this species that lives

0:52:120:52:14

on our planet

0:52:140:52:15

with brains larger than ours.

0:52:150:52:18

Jeff Bridges was introduced to Lilly by Hollywood friends.

0:52:180:52:21

He became fascinated by his work trying to teach dolphins

0:52:210:52:25

to communicate using electronic sounds.

0:52:250:52:27

He was interested in trying to

0:52:290:52:32

teach humans a way

0:52:320:52:34

that would be easier for the dolphins to communicate.

0:52:340:52:38

And not so much trying to get the dolphins to speak humaneeze,

0:52:380:52:43

but giving the dolphins a code

0:52:430:52:45

rather than trying to make the dolphins speak like humans.

0:52:450:52:49

But Lilly's approach was completely at odds with other scientific

0:52:520:52:55

research into animal communication.

0:52:550:52:58

The failure of the Dolphin House killed off

0:52:590:53:01

serious scientific interest in teaching animals a human language.

0:53:010:53:05

Instead, over the following decades,

0:53:070:53:09

scientists have focused on trying to understand

0:53:090:53:12

animal-to-animal communication,

0:53:120:53:14

as Gregory Bateson and the astronomers had championed.

0:53:140:53:17

50 years after the Dolphin House,

0:53:200:53:22

it's not Peter's command of English

0:53:220:53:24

which the experiment is remembered for,

0:53:240:53:26

but Margaret's sexual encounters with him.

0:53:260:53:29

When an account of what happened was finally published in the 1970s,

0:53:300:53:34

it fascinated a prurient public.

0:53:340:53:37

And someone came up and said, "Well, aren't you just...?"

0:53:370:53:40

I didn't know what they were talking about.

0:53:400:53:42

I, first of all, had never even heard of Hustler Magazine.

0:53:420:53:45

And I opened the Hustler...

0:53:450:53:47

SHE GASPS And I found this story

0:53:490:53:51

with my name and Peter,

0:53:510:53:54

and a drawing of the sexual activity.

0:53:540:53:57

"The worst experiment in the world," I've read, was me and Peter.

0:53:570:54:01

I was very upset.

0:54:010:54:03

I never hid it from anybody.

0:54:050:54:07

There were people around, John Lilly sometimes.

0:54:070:54:10

Maybe somebody visiting with John Lilly.

0:54:100:54:13

Peter would be aroused and we would go through this.

0:54:130:54:16

But it always had to be respected.

0:54:160:54:18

Tarnished by the reputation of his work at the Dolphin House, Lilly

0:54:210:54:25

continued his use of mind-expanding drugs in the years which followed.

0:54:250:54:29

And he began championing many of the wilder ideas

0:54:290:54:33

from the counter-culture, becoming a new-age guru and cult figure.

0:54:330:54:37

With me is Dr John C Lilly.

0:54:370:54:40

What is true in the province of the mind?

0:54:400:54:43

In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true

0:54:430:54:46

either is true or becomes true within certain limits.

0:54:460:54:50

But as he got older, Lilly's appreciation of dolphin

0:54:560:54:59

intelligence got him thinking about the animals differently.

0:54:590:55:03

Up to that point, I think he was

0:55:030:55:06

very involved in what dolphins

0:55:060:55:09

can do for me, John Lilly, the scientist.

0:55:090:55:12

And something happened along the way where he understood,

0:55:120:55:15

"They have just as much rights as we do

0:55:150:55:18

"and let's start thinking about what we can do for them."

0:55:180:55:22

John changed his thinking about the dolphins,

0:55:220:55:25

and he felt uncomfortable about keeping them confined -

0:55:250:55:31

and he ended up releasing his dolphins.

0:55:310:55:35

That's the first time that happened in America, or anywhere.

0:55:370:55:41

The first permit ever issued to release dolphins.

0:55:410:55:45

I had no right to confine them,

0:55:450:55:49

to imprison them,

0:55:490:55:51

to work on them.

0:55:510:55:53

My only right would be to work with them

0:55:540:55:58

in their natural habitat, in their natural state.

0:55:580:56:02

In the mid-1980s, Lilly began campaigning

0:56:020:56:06

relentlessly against holding dolphins captive.

0:56:060:56:09

This, together with the profile his work had given dolphins,

0:56:090:56:13

helped transform the way they were viewed by the public.

0:56:130:56:16

Congress passed the US Marine Mammal Protection Act.

0:56:160:56:21

And for organisations like Greenpeace,

0:56:210:56:23

they became an iconic symbol of the wider conservation movement.

0:56:230:56:27

That story of the rising campaign to afford new protections

0:56:270:56:34

to the world's marine mammals,

0:56:340:56:35

I would argue it's impossible to imagine that work without

0:56:350:56:39

Lilly's legacy.

0:56:390:56:41

John Lilly died in hospital in 2001, after a short illness,

0:56:420:56:46

at the age of 86.

0:56:460:56:47

Margaret Howe had stayed on in St Thomas' and married

0:56:500:56:54

the photographer who had taken the pictures of her with Peter.

0:56:540:56:57

Remarkably, she and her husband continued living in the house

0:56:590:57:02

for another ten years,

0:57:020:57:04

converting it into a family home and bringing up three girls.

0:57:040:57:07

It was a good place,

0:57:090:57:11

there was good feeling in that building all the time.

0:57:110:57:14

But for Margaret, today the house has an even more powerful memory.

0:57:160:57:20

That relationship of having to be together,

0:57:200:57:24

that sort of turned into really enjoying being together,

0:57:240:57:27

and wanting to be together, and missing when you weren't there.

0:57:270:57:33

I'm a human, I'm in love with a human.

0:57:330:57:35

I married a human, I had babies.

0:57:350:57:37

I did have a very close encounter with...

0:57:370:57:40

I can't even say a dolphin again, ..with Peter, one dolphin.

0:57:400:57:44

I was very lucky.

0:57:440:57:46

PETER SQUEAKS

0:57:460:57:47

HE SQUEAKS

0:57:510:57:53

SHE GIGGLES

0:57:530:57:56

That's amazing!

0:57:560:57:58

For the first time in 50 years,

0:57:580:58:00

Margaret has been able to hear recordings of her with Peter.

0:58:000:58:04

Trying so hard! God...

0:58:040:58:07

'One, two, three, four, five.

0:58:070:58:10

'Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

0:58:100:58:13

'Nice five, Peter.'

0:58:130:58:15

Nice five, Peter!

0:58:150:58:16

SHE LAUGHS AND CLAPS

0:58:160:58:19

PETER SQUEAKS

0:58:470:58:50

MARGARET: What is that all about, Peter?

0:58:520:58:54

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