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Why do we do the things we do? | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
What really makes us tick? | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
How do our minds work? | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
For centuries, these questions were largely left | 0:00:13 | 0:00:16 | |
to philosophers and theologians. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
Around 100 years ago, a new science | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
began to shine a bright light on the inner workings of the mind. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:28 | |
It was called experimental psychology. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:32 | |
But doing scientific experiments | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
posed some terrible ethical and moral dilemmas. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:41 | |
Do you think the research was justified? Would you have stopped him if you could? | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
In this series, I will explore how psychologists have probed inside | 0:00:44 | 0:00:48 | |
our minds, by way of experiments, which sometimes were frankly barbaric. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:55 | |
-The experiment requires that we continue... -But he might be dead in there. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
Ever since I was a medical student, I have been fascinated by psychology, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
by its brutal history and by how far some researchers have been prepared | 0:01:03 | 0:01:08 | |
to go in the search for answers. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
This time, I'm exploring how scientists have struggled | 0:01:13 | 0:01:16 | |
to understand that seemingly irrational | 0:01:16 | 0:01:19 | |
and yet deeply complex part of our minds, our emotions. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:25 | |
Oh, dear. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:26 | |
I'm playing my own small part in this quest. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
You're going to be experiencing some... | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
moderate pain. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
How are you going to create the pain? | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
Emotions are a huge part of our lives, | 0:01:37 | 0:01:42 | |
but where do they come from? | 0:01:42 | 0:01:43 | |
Can they be controlled? | 0:01:43 | 0:01:48 | |
What are they there for? | 0:01:48 | 0:01:52 | |
The answers they came up with were rich, complex | 0:01:52 | 0:01:55 | |
and also profoundly uncomfortable. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:58 | |
They have made me re-evaluate the role of emotions in my own life. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:04 | |
It's a load-bearing belt, it's got to be done up securely, because your life may depend on it. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:21 | |
Safety helmet. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
'A problem faced by anyone who wants to study emotions is how to reproduce them. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:30 | |
'Some emotions are harder to generate that others. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:34 | |
'The one we're hoping to generate today is fear.' | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
A pair of gloves - if you do get stuck, it'll stop you ripping your fingernails off. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:43 | |
Do you ever get people who freak out when they're down there? | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
-Frequently. -Right. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:49 | |
'I have never done this, because I have always been aware that | 0:02:49 | 0:02:54 | |
'when I go into small, dark spaces and I even think about doing so, | 0:02:54 | 0:02:58 | |
'I become really, really uncomfortable. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
'I think I probably have a mild degree of claustrophobia,' | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
but I've never challenged it, and that's kind of why I want to do it now, | 0:03:03 | 0:03:07 | |
I want to see what it's going to actually be like. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
There's your cave. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:11 | |
God, wow! That's small, isn't it? | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
I was imagining something large. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
Ha...! OK. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
-First of all, there's just... -Ooh, that's nasty. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
'Now, one of the questions that scientists have grappled with | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
'down the years is the relationship between reason and emotion. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:30 | |
'I see myself as a rational creature | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
'and yet I can be overwhelmed by my feelings, | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
'as I think I'm about to find out.' | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
There's a part of which is absolutely convinced I'm a rational creature - | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
whatever emotion is engendered by the cave, | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
I can control it. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:50 | |
But I don't know until I do it. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
-Ooh, cor blimey, it's a long way down. -Going down. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
Aha! Yep, I'm fine. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:02 | |
-Lay right down. -Yep. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
And get your legs in first, insert your legs. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
Oh, jeez. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:08 | |
-Twist your hips. -Oh, God, this is horrible. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
-Yeah, just relax. -I realise... | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
that actually it's not | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
the dark and the small - it's the fear of getting stuck. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
HE SIGHS | 0:04:20 | 0:04:24 | |
Right... Do people panic at this point? | 0:04:24 | 0:04:28 | |
Well, the secret is, your mind and your body both have to be relaxed. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:33 | |
Ah, Jesus. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
Ah, I can feel panic. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
Calm down, objectify it - | 0:04:38 | 0:04:40 | |
out of a score of ten, how bad is it? | 0:04:40 | 0:04:43 | |
Probably about nine at the moment. | 0:04:43 | 0:04:45 | |
And could I...? No. It's really, really horrible. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
Ssh, ssh, ssh. Just stop, relax. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:52 | |
-You come to what they call the grip self moment. -Right. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
When you've got to grip self, but you absolutely have to take control. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:00 | |
All right? | 0:05:00 | 0:05:03 | |
Just don't think about it, just keep breathing. Jesus Christ! | 0:05:04 | 0:05:11 | |
My arm has got stuck, | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
-I have my left arm underneath me. -Just adjust yourself a little bit - don't panic. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:20 | |
Do I put my hands in front of me or what? | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
-Yeah, whatever's most comfortable. Take your time. -But I'm not going to get stuck? -No. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:29 | |
Oh, jeez, that was horrible. Oh, God. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:32 | |
Ah, it's unbelievable, man. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
My arm was trapped underneath me. I really thought... | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
..I was going to be stuck. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
Now, that was just... | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
absolutely bloody awful. Oh, God! | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
'It is clearly possible to produce a powerful emotion, | 0:05:55 | 0:05:58 | |
'but to really understand them is a very different challenge.' | 0:05:58 | 0:06:03 | |
HE SIGHS DEEPLY | 0:06:04 | 0:06:06 | |
In the early days, psychology largely relied | 0:06:12 | 0:06:15 | |
on speculative, unproven theories. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
Then, at the start of the 20th century, psychologists | 0:06:18 | 0:06:23 | |
finally began to apply the scientific method to their discipline. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:29 | |
One of the first to do so was young, ambitious JB Watson. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:34 | |
The place, John Hopkins University, Baltimore. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
The question he was asking was deceptively simple - | 0:06:40 | 0:06:44 | |
where do emotions come from? | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
Are we born with them? Do we learn them? | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
He already had a pet theory. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:56 | |
Now, Watson believed that we're all born with three basic emotions - | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
love, fear and rage - and that by mixing those together, | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
you get all the emotional range that we enjoy as adults. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
But where he broke with other people was, | 0:07:07 | 0:07:09 | |
he believed that every experience you had, all the emotions | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
you felt later in life, were the product of some childhood experience, | 0:07:13 | 0:07:18 | |
that what you experienced as a child would determine who you fell in love with, | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
what you hated and what you got angry with. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
Watson's own childhood was not happy. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
His father was drunk and often absent. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
Perhaps because of this, Watson was immensely driven | 0:07:34 | 0:07:36 | |
and, in 1920, began planning something that would make him famous. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:41 | |
Now, Watson was about to do what will turn out to be | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
one of the most controversial and also important experiments | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
of the early 20th century. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:52 | |
He must have been... | 0:07:52 | 0:07:54 | |
nervous, and so must the people taking part in this experiment. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:59 | |
Watson wanted to study fear, | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
and to do that, he was going to have | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
to find someone and utterly terrify them. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
These are his props - | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
a clown mask... | 0:08:13 | 0:08:15 | |
..some newspaper and matches, | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
a steel bar and a hammer. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:21 | |
So, who was he going to terrify? | 0:08:23 | 0:08:27 | |
Watson chose, as his subject, a nine-month-old infant | 0:08:27 | 0:08:31 | |
he called Albert. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:33 | |
Albert's mother was a wet nurse at the local hospital, who probably | 0:08:33 | 0:08:37 | |
needed the dollar a day usually paid to experimental subjects. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:43 | |
A corridor conveniently linked Albert's hospital home | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
to Watson's lab. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:48 | |
Now, Watson must have hoped this was going to be something memorable, | 0:08:50 | 0:08:54 | |
because he filmed it, which was something extremely unusual for the time. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
Watson wanted to prove that though babies are born | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
with an instinctive capacity for fear, | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
initially, there is not much they're actually frightened of. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
They learn what to fear. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
Watson started by testing | 0:09:10 | 0:09:11 | |
Albert's reaction to a series of potentially dangerous things. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:16 | |
This is a burning pile of paper. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:18 | |
Will Little Albert be frightened of it? | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
And the answer is no - | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
Little Albert was trying to reach out and grab the flames. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:27 | |
He's obviously not frightened. He doesn't know that fire burns, | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
he hasn't had that experience. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
Then animals were pushed in front of him. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:36 | |
Albert was curious, but showed no signs of actually being frightened. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:40 | |
But Watson knew | 0:09:40 | 0:09:41 | |
he COULD terrify Albert with loud, unexpected noises. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:46 | |
So far what he'd done was pretty innocuous. The next bit wasn't. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
Imagine this doll is Little Albert, | 0:09:50 | 0:09:54 | |
and this bit of cotton wool is a mouse. Well, the mouse comes | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
to play with Little Albert, and they have some fun together. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:01 | |
And then, on one occasion, the experimenter comes up behind Little Albert | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
and, completely unexpectedly, | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
terrifies the kid by banging a loud noise. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
They do this again and again. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
What they wanted to see was, had they induced fear in Little Albert, | 0:10:14 | 0:10:20 | |
towards the rat that he had previously really liked? | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
Watson was deliberately trying to condition Albert to associate | 0:10:28 | 0:10:33 | |
all these objects with fear. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
The test would be...would Albert be scared of them without needing to startle him with the bang? | 0:10:36 | 0:10:42 | |
So Watson and his colleagues pushed the objects in front of Albert once more. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:50 | |
Ooh. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
Albert is obviously very uncomfortable. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:09 | |
He's trying to run away, and they're almost torturing him. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
You can see it, he's crying. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:14 | |
He's screaming... | 0:11:14 | 0:11:15 | |
he doesn't want anything to do with it. He's trying to run away, | 0:11:15 | 0:11:19 | |
and they're just bringing it back to him - it really is quite disturbing. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
Watson noted that when the rat alone was presented, | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
Little Albert puckered his face and withdrew his body sharply to the left. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:33 | |
Oh, and this is nasty - they've got the mask out now. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:39 | |
Oh, this is horrid. The experimenter's got the mask on | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
and he's deliberately setting out to try and terrify the child. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:46 | |
Watson had proved that you can learn fear of almost anything. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:51 | |
Extreme fear. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:54 | |
You can make a person phobic. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
So I've read about the case of Little Albert before, | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
but I've never seen the footage, and it's really quite upsetting, | 0:12:00 | 0:12:04 | |
particularly when you think of him as an innocent young child of eight months, | 0:12:04 | 0:12:08 | |
having these horrible things done to you by adults. | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
There's a sort of coldness about this experiment, | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
which is really, really uncomfortable. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
Watson's work was a landmark. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:26 | |
By frightening Little Albert, he had shown that, whilst our capacity | 0:12:26 | 0:12:30 | |
for emotions is innate, how they develop depends on what we experience. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:37 | |
The experiment ended after five months, | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
when his mother got a new job and moved away. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
She took with her a child filled with fears. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:50 | |
For nearly a century, one of psychology's most iconic figures vanished. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:56 | |
Recently, however, a relentless researcher | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
did manage to track him down. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
But there was to be no happy ending. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
Little Albert died from an infectious disease | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
when he was a child. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:20 | |
'Even the name Watson gave him isn't really his. | 0:13:20 | 0:13:24 | |
'His mother called him Douglas.' | 0:13:24 | 0:13:26 | |
He is this sort of big event in the history of psychology | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
and yet he's also utterly anonymous... | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
..which is quite sort of sad in its own way. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
And also because his mother... | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
took his secrets with her to the grave, we have no idea what happened | 0:13:42 | 0:13:46 | |
to Little Albert after he left. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:48 | |
We have no idea whether the fear that was conditioned into him | 0:13:48 | 0:13:53 | |
by Watson persisted. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:56 | |
All we know | 0:13:56 | 0:13:57 | |
is he lies here, he died aged six, probably of encephalitis, | 0:13:57 | 0:14:03 | |
and that... | 0:14:03 | 0:14:05 | |
his mother loved him. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:06 | |
Fast-forward to the 21st century, and it's clear that the influence | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
of the Little Albert experiment has been profound. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
Watson had shown that we learn fear by association. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
It wasn't long before others began using the same technique | 0:14:29 | 0:14:33 | |
to reverse the effect, | 0:14:33 | 0:14:35 | |
to use the power of association to unlearn fear. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:39 | |
His legacy is behavioural therapy, | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
one of the most effective treatments today for helping people with phobias. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:50 | |
Ten years ago, I made a TV series about phobias. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
I particularly remember Daniel. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:58 | |
He was so frightened of dogs, he could barely walk down the road. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:03 | |
Oh, my God! Mum! Mum! | 0:15:03 | 0:15:05 | |
It's all right, it's OK. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:06 | |
It's OK, it's OK. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
But, look, he's coming up that way - please can we cross over? | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
It's all right, it's all right. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
OK? Just keep walking - it's all right. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:18 | |
-No, I don't... -OK? | 0:15:18 | 0:15:19 | |
'Daniel had a few sessions with a behavioural psychologist, | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
'which seemed to help. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
'But has it lasted?' | 0:15:27 | 0:15:28 | |
'Daniel is now 20, and I've come to meet him with my own dog, Guy.' | 0:15:31 | 0:15:36 | |
-Hello, there! -Hiya. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
Hi, there. Michael. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
-Hiya. Daniel. -Hello, very nice to see you. -Hi, nice to meet you. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
You've changed a lot since I last saw you! Are you OK with Guy? | 0:15:44 | 0:15:48 | |
Ah, yeah, fine. Yeah, it's no problem. | 0:15:48 | 0:15:50 | |
Very good, very good, I'm impressed. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:52 | |
Do you mind, I'm just going to bring Guy next to you? | 0:15:52 | 0:15:54 | |
I just want to see, are you happy patting Guy? | 0:15:54 | 0:15:56 | |
I don't mind. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
-There you go. -See that's not... that's fine NOW. -Yep. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:02 | |
-But years ago, that would never have happened. -Yep. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:04 | |
It's a lot, it's a lot easier to rationalise and weigh up now. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
Before it would have just been anything to get away from the situation. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
'Behavioural therapy does not claim to cure but to make fear manageable. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:15 | |
'I wanted to see if Daniel would be able to handle | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
'a bigger challenge than Guy.' | 0:16:18 | 0:16:20 | |
-So what do you think about the one over there? -It's fine when it's over there. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:25 | |
Would you be happy going over there and having a chat, | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
or me bringing her back over here? | 0:16:27 | 0:16:29 | |
I'd rather you didn't, to be honest, but I could probably walk past. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
Shall we go and see how close we can get before you feel uncomfortable? | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
-Yeah, I think I can walk past, yeah. -Let's go and see. Come on, Guy! | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
'Behavioural therapy involves gradually increasing the exposure | 0:16:41 | 0:16:45 | |
'to whatever it is you fear.' | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
So, out of ten at the moment? | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
I'm anxious. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:54 | |
Six or seven. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:57 | |
-So it's going up? -It is, yeah. | 0:16:57 | 0:16:59 | |
OK, tell me kind of when you want to stop, then. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
'If Daniel runs away now, his fear of dogs will be reinforced.' | 0:17:03 | 0:17:08 | |
-See, this is OK. I mean, I wouldn't want to get much closer, to be honest. -OK. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:14 | |
'But staying while his brain shrieks, "Run!" is hard to do.' | 0:17:15 | 0:17:20 | |
You all right? | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
I am, but... | 0:17:25 | 0:17:27 | |
-Is your pulse running...? -Yeah, probably a bit faster. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:32 | |
Mind if I just have a go at your pulse? | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
-About 125, 130. -Which is...? | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
-Which is about, I'd imagine, twice what it normally is. -Really? | 0:17:42 | 0:17:45 | |
Yes. So I think you're feeling a trifle anxious. | 0:17:45 | 0:17:49 | |
'If Daniel can tough it out, his anxiety will fade, | 0:17:52 | 0:17:57 | |
'and he will start to break the association between dogs and fear.' | 0:17:57 | 0:18:01 | |
You're now running at about 90. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
-Which is a little bit above. -It's a little bit, but it's come down... | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
-In the last minute or so, it's come down from about 120 to 90. -Yep. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:22 | |
'I don't think Daniel will ever love dogs, but nor will he allow | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
'a fear of them to rule his life.' | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
Well done. Really, really impressive. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
By the 1950s, psychologists felt they had a grasp of how fears develop | 0:18:45 | 0:18:50 | |
and how they can be controlled. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:51 | |
But what about a more positive emotion? | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
What about love? | 0:18:56 | 0:18:58 | |
I don't actually bring out these photographs very often, | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
and they are incredibly evocative. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
This is me and Claire on our honeymoon, | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
sort of looking at each other. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
And it brings a very sort of warm glow. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:26 | |
And then these are pictures of... | 0:19:26 | 0:19:28 | |
me and the kids growing up. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:30 | |
That must be Jack, probably about two years old, | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
very sweet. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
So what is love and what is it for? | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
In the 1950s, the answers were unclear. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:46 | |
There were just a series of assumptions going back half a century. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:51 | |
They knew babies are born with basic instincts, | 0:19:51 | 0:19:56 | |
and the most basic is to eat. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
The dominant idea was that affection and love develop | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
towards whoever is feeding us. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
Love is just there to reinforce this bond with the feeder. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:11 | |
But no-one had put this idea to the test. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:16 | |
People didn't understand how you could study it, let alone... | 0:20:19 | 0:20:24 | |
be willing to study it. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
It was something which was seen as almost unstudyable, | 0:20:26 | 0:20:32 | |
certainly in the laboratory, | 0:20:32 | 0:20:34 | |
and that anyone who attempted to do so was probably a fool. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:37 | |
One man who thought that, as far as love was concerned, | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
psychology had been a complete failure, was Harry Harlow. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:45 | |
In 1958, Harlow set about challenging this by doing a strange | 0:20:48 | 0:20:54 | |
and compelling experiment. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
What Harlow wanted to do was explore love. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
Now, how do you actually do something like that? | 0:21:02 | 0:21:05 | |
Well, he had an idea - | 0:21:05 | 0:21:07 | |
it's rather extraordinary and certainly bizarre. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
What Harlow needed for his experiments were baby monkeys | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
and very basic building materials. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
What Harlow wanted to investigate was the nature | 0:21:22 | 0:21:28 | |
of love between a mother and a child. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:30 | |
What is it a child really wants? | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
This was going to help him answer that. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:40 | |
'There were lots of theories about love and the relationship | 0:21:41 | 0:21:45 | |
'between a mother and child but virtually no experimental data.' | 0:21:45 | 0:21:50 | |
Ah! | 0:21:52 | 0:21:53 | |
HE LAUGHS Right. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
So what Harlow was attempting to do | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
was build... | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
something which was a sort of surrogate mummy monkey. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:05 | |
'The baby monkeys were to be separated from their mothers | 0:22:05 | 0:22:10 | |
'and then offered DIY alternatives, built out of bits of scrap.' | 0:22:10 | 0:22:16 | |
Now, the interesting thing is that Harlow was doing this fascia, | 0:22:16 | 0:22:20 | |
not really for the benefit | 0:22:20 | 0:22:23 | |
of the baby monkeys, | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
but because he wanted parents to identify with this... | 0:22:25 | 0:22:31 | |
funny little creature he was creating. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:33 | |
Harlow wanted this to be about people, not just monkeys. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:39 | |
And finally what I need is... | 0:22:39 | 0:22:41 | |
yes, one of these - basically, a source of food. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:46 | |
A mother, | 0:22:47 | 0:22:48 | |
pared down to her absolutely bare essentials - basically one... | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
breast, if you like, one nipple to feed, one face to smile | 0:22:52 | 0:22:57 | |
and a frame to sort of cuddle onto. | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
Right, so that was monkey number one. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:03 | |
Now he needed to build monkey number two. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
'The purpose of the experiment was to offer baby monkeys | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
'two types of surrogate mother and see which they preferred. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:19 | |
'One would offer food, the other something less obvious.' | 0:23:19 | 0:23:24 | |
At this point, these two monkeys look really quite similar, | 0:23:26 | 0:23:30 | |
but I'm just going to add Harlow's final touch. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:34 | |
'To the second surrogate mother, Harlow added just one thing - | 0:23:35 | 0:23:40 | |
'a soft cover.' | 0:23:40 | 0:23:41 | |
And the question was, if he took a baby monkey and he introduced | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
the baby monkey to these two parents, who would it prefer to go to? | 0:23:46 | 0:23:51 | |
Conventional theory said that you get love, or love is generated, | 0:23:51 | 0:23:55 | |
by fulfilling something of your basic wants. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:59 | |
So, in theory, and that's certainly what everyone believed at the time, | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
the baby monkeys would become attached and bonded to this monkey, | 0:24:02 | 0:24:06 | |
because this monkey is providing milk, it is satisfying a need, | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
satisfying hunger. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:11 | |
So what happened? | 0:24:11 | 0:24:13 | |
Harry Harlow is no longer alive, | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
but I'm going to meet someone who worked very closely with him. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:24 | |
-Hello? -Hi, come on in, come on in! | 0:24:32 | 0:24:34 | |
Hello, thank you. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
Wooh! Well, hello. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
-What happened? -Hi. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:41 | |
Ah, as I heard somebody once say, | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
I put my foot down, and it broke itself. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:46 | |
'Len Rosenbaum is an eminent psychologist.' | 0:24:46 | 0:24:49 | |
We're going, I think, into this front room. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
Fabulous. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:53 | |
Did people really think it was enough just to feed and to clothe? | 0:24:53 | 0:24:58 | |
I think, at that time, people thought those primary drives, | 0:24:58 | 0:25:02 | |
the survival needs, | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
were enough to carry infants - monkeys or others - | 0:25:05 | 0:25:10 | |
from immaturity to maturity. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:12 | |
No-one, at that point, thought that something like what Harlow | 0:25:12 | 0:25:18 | |
called the affectional drives, these bonding tendencies, were in a sense | 0:25:18 | 0:25:24 | |
as primary as the need for food, the need for water and so on. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:28 | |
Thus the experiment. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
OK. | 0:25:31 | 0:25:32 | |
'The baby monkeys were offered their choice. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
'Harlow recorded exactly what happened.' | 0:25:40 | 0:25:42 | |
Watch! | 0:25:46 | 0:25:49 | |
He's going to the wire mother. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:52 | |
The baby readily fed from the wire object, but rather rapidly left the wire mother | 0:25:52 | 0:25:59 | |
and then spent its time clinging, 15, 16, 18 hours a day... | 0:25:59 | 0:26:04 | |
Each of these had a clock attached, so you could time | 0:26:04 | 0:26:08 | |
how much time was the baby spending clinging to one or the other. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:13 | |
The attachment was developed towards the cloth surrogate, | 0:26:14 | 0:26:19 | |
regardless of the source of the food. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
So it was not food in the end - it was touch which was important to the baby monkey? | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
That was what these experiments purported to show, yes. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
'Having shown that the babies preferred the cloth mother, | 0:26:29 | 0:26:33 | |
'they wanted to investigate what this really meant. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:36 | |
'What was the baby feeling for the cloth mother?' | 0:26:36 | 0:26:40 | |
The whole idea was to ask the question... | 0:26:40 | 0:26:43 | |
well, fine, the kid prefers the cloth, even though the wire feeds. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:49 | |
But what... how far does that preference go? | 0:26:49 | 0:26:52 | |
What's its ultimate meaning? | 0:26:52 | 0:26:53 | |
'They used fear to test the strength of the baby's bond. | 0:26:55 | 0:27:00 | |
'Faced with a scary object, which mother would they run to?' | 0:27:00 | 0:27:04 | |
And now Dr Harlow is, ah, moving to the front | 0:27:04 | 0:27:10 | |
of the cage one of these very scary objects. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
-He raises the door, scares it... -The monkey goes, "Ah!" -..and the baby rushes away. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:19 | |
-Immediate, isn't it? -Where does it rush? | 0:27:19 | 0:27:21 | |
Not to the feeder but to the cloth surrogate. | 0:27:21 | 0:27:26 | |
So Mummy really is providing everything they need - protection...? | 0:27:26 | 0:27:30 | |
-Exactly. The thing is to be in her presence. -So this is love? | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
-This is what Harlow would call love in a way? -This is what Harlow would call love. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:37 | |
And I'm inclined to agree. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:39 | |
'Next, Len and Harlow tested | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
'the strength of a baby's love for its mother. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:46 | |
'Just how unpleasant would the cloth mother have to be | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
'before the baby monkey ceased to want it?' | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
What I did was to try and provide a mother, a cloth mother, | 0:27:54 | 0:27:58 | |
that the infant would become attached to | 0:27:58 | 0:28:02 | |
but which would provide a kind of rejection, | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
which meant that what I did was used compressed air | 0:28:06 | 0:28:10 | |
to blow a blast of air at the kid, at some periodic interval. | 0:28:10 | 0:28:15 | |
The baby then steps off, gets away, and then what happens? | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
That's the question. Does the kid say, "Well, I don't want any more of this. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:23 | |
"I don't... This is not for me"? | 0:28:23 | 0:28:25 | |
No, just the opposite. The theory is this...what if, | 0:28:25 | 0:28:29 | |
every time you're emotionally upset, you do the thing that you always do | 0:28:29 | 0:28:34 | |
when you're emotionally upset, you rush to your mother? | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
But now when you're on your mother, I make you even more emotionally upset, what do you do? | 0:28:37 | 0:28:42 | |
Well, you want to be on your mother even more! | 0:28:42 | 0:28:45 | |
There's a linkage between the infant's emotional state | 0:28:45 | 0:28:49 | |
and its desire to be on the mother, even if the mother is the source | 0:28:49 | 0:28:55 | |
of that emotional distress. | 0:28:55 | 0:28:57 | |
I mean, it kind of makes sense, | 0:28:57 | 0:28:58 | |
but when I was working with delinquent children, it always... | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
I was young, I was sort of 20, but I was surprised | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
by the extent to which these children, who frankly | 0:29:04 | 0:29:08 | |
had abusive mothers... It didn't matter HOW badly their mothers had | 0:29:08 | 0:29:12 | |
behaved to them - they would get really, really angry if you ever, | 0:29:12 | 0:29:16 | |
EVER accused their mothers of being in any way inadequate. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
Absolutely the case. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
And it was exactly those kinds of observations, at the human level, | 0:29:20 | 0:29:25 | |
that was a natural bridge for us to study. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:29 | |
These experiments threw a powerful light on a baby's need | 0:29:31 | 0:29:35 | |
for its parents' touch. | 0:29:35 | 0:29:37 | |
But Harlow was about to go further. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
He now asked...what would happen if we had no love, no contact - | 0:29:40 | 0:29:46 | |
nobody at all? | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
Would this lead to depression and despair? | 0:29:48 | 0:29:52 | |
And if so, would this help our understanding | 0:29:52 | 0:29:54 | |
of this terrible affliction? | 0:29:54 | 0:29:56 | |
Harlow himself had suffered from depression. | 0:29:56 | 0:30:00 | |
He put baby monkeys in total isolation, for up to a year. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:05 | |
Some were not only isolated, but confined in a restricted space | 0:30:05 | 0:30:10 | |
known as the Well of Despair. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
All the monkeys came out | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
severely disturbed - those placed in the well were particularly damaged. | 0:30:15 | 0:30:20 | |
'Len did not work with Harlow on these experiments.' | 0:30:23 | 0:30:28 | |
Do you think the research was justified? | 0:30:28 | 0:30:30 | |
Would you have stopped him if you'd had the choice then? | 0:30:30 | 0:30:32 | |
The isolation experiments, I probably would not have. | 0:30:32 | 0:30:36 | |
The Well of Despair studies, I probably would have. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:39 | |
But, what was the goal? | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
If we could create a meaningful, valid | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
monkey model of depression, | 0:30:46 | 0:30:48 | |
would that be worthwhile? | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
Without question in my mind, | 0:30:52 | 0:30:54 | |
I would say it would be ABSOLUTELY worthwhile. | 0:30:54 | 0:30:57 | |
-Whatever you had to do to the monkeys to achieve that? -Well...that's your phrase, | 0:30:57 | 0:31:02 | |
I don't know... I can't answer the "whatever I had to do". | 0:31:02 | 0:31:06 | |
But, would I have said, if I were on a grant committee, reviewing | 0:31:06 | 0:31:12 | |
research that said, "Our goal is to create a monkey model of depression | 0:31:12 | 0:31:17 | |
"that would allow us to understand ultimately brain mechanisms" - | 0:31:17 | 0:31:22 | |
I would say - having worked in a psychiatry department for 47 years - | 0:31:22 | 0:31:26 | |
you're damn right I would have been supportive of it. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:29 | |
To be able to solve that problem - to be able to knock | 0:31:29 | 0:31:32 | |
a piece of that problem out of the way - is OVERWHELMINGLY worth it. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:37 | |
'Harlow's work is deeply controversial. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:54 | |
'But what he gave the world | 0:31:54 | 0:31:55 | |
'is something that I think is of profound importance. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:59 | |
'He proved just how much we all need affection | 0:32:01 | 0:32:05 | |
'and close physical contact.' | 0:32:05 | 0:32:07 | |
OK... | 0:32:08 | 0:32:10 | |
"When we were walking home from school, | 0:32:10 | 0:32:12 | |
"Betty told me she had this idea..." | 0:32:12 | 0:32:14 | |
-"Tells." -"Tells", yeah. Thank you... | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
'After Harlow, hospital-born babies were no longer | 0:32:17 | 0:32:20 | |
'separated from their mothers, but placed physically close to them. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:24 | |
'What had seemed natural to so many mothers | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
'was now confirmed by science. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:30 | |
'This particular experiment utterly altered the way that people dealt | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 | |
'with the subject of love, and the way they brought up children. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:39 | |
'From then on you begin to see that' | 0:32:39 | 0:32:41 | |
the important thing is that children should feel touched, cuddled, held. | 0:32:41 | 0:32:45 | |
And for that, I am profoundly, profoundly grateful to Harlow. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:50 | |
Watson had shown that emotions are learnt, | 0:32:57 | 0:33:00 | |
and Harlow, that we are intensely social creatures. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
So it was natural to put these two ideas together, and ask, | 0:33:04 | 0:33:09 | |
how much of what we do and feel is learnt from other people? | 0:33:09 | 0:33:13 | |
In 1961, American psychologist Albert Bandura set out to see | 0:33:13 | 0:33:19 | |
how far just watching other people influences our behaviour. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:24 | |
Bandura chose to study aggression. | 0:33:27 | 0:33:30 | |
At the time, the widespread view | 0:33:32 | 0:33:34 | |
was that watching violence reduces aggression - it purges us. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:40 | |
But was this true? | 0:33:40 | 0:33:41 | |
To find out, Bandura experimented on small children | 0:33:48 | 0:33:52 | |
aged three to five. | 0:33:52 | 0:33:54 | |
So what Bandura did, is he put an adult in a room with a child | 0:33:58 | 0:34:02 | |
and a bunch of toys, including | 0:34:02 | 0:34:03 | |
something he called the "Bobo doll", which is a giant inflatable doll. | 0:34:03 | 0:34:08 | |
Then, what happened after about a minute is the adult unexpectedly | 0:34:08 | 0:34:12 | |
started beating up the doll in really quite a vicious manner - | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
shouting, screaming, kicking, | 0:34:15 | 0:34:18 | |
hitting with a hammer - and went on like this for about ten minutes. | 0:34:18 | 0:34:22 | |
What would the child do, if after watching the adult | 0:34:24 | 0:34:27 | |
they were left in a room on their own, with the same toys? | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
Ooh! She really is going for it. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:40 | |
She's doing exactly the same as she saw the adult do, she's lifted | 0:34:42 | 0:34:47 | |
the doll up and now she's really hammering it. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:50 | |
She's got a little hammer out, and she's having a go at its toes now. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
Which shows innovation if nothing else... | 0:34:53 | 0:34:55 | |
'Every child who'd watched the adult being violent | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
'copied much of what they'd seen. | 0:34:59 | 0:35:01 | |
'The closest imitation | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
'was when a child observed an adult of the same sex.' | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
Now he's got the gun out, and he's using | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
a combination of the gun and the hammer to just whack the doll. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
He's got a very aggressive expression on his face. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:17 | |
'Importantly, another group who had watched an adult play gently | 0:35:19 | 0:35:23 | |
'played calmly, showing no signs of aggression. | 0:35:23 | 0:35:27 | |
'Basically, what the children saw, the children did. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
'This was an utterly unexpected finding.' | 0:35:31 | 0:35:35 | |
Before Bandura did this experiment, psychologists thought that | 0:35:38 | 0:35:42 | |
seeing somebody else acting out | 0:35:42 | 0:35:43 | |
a violent scene would be cathartic, it would sort of purge you. | 0:35:43 | 0:35:47 | |
But what this clearly demonstrated, | 0:35:47 | 0:35:49 | |
and really shocked people at the time, | 0:35:49 | 0:35:51 | |
is that actually what happens when | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
you see something doing violent actions - you tend to imitate them. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:58 | |
Bandura's findings were given added impact by his timing. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
His experiment took place just as television was moving into the home. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:10 | |
Two years later, | 0:36:12 | 0:36:14 | |
Bandura re-ran his experiment with one important difference. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:19 | |
This time, he wanted to compare how children react | 0:36:20 | 0:36:24 | |
to watching an aggressive adult not in real life - but on film. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:30 | |
Children watched two versions. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:33 | |
One was a straightforward recording | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
of the adult beating up the Bobo doll. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:39 | |
The second, a fantasy version, | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
with the attacking adult dressed as a cat. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:46 | |
In almost every case, Bandura got the same results - | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
children imitated what they'd seen. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:52 | |
The results were dynamite. | 0:36:52 | 0:36:55 | |
This was one of the first experiments | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
to look at the impact of television violence. | 0:37:00 | 0:37:03 | |
The complicated relationship between | 0:37:03 | 0:37:05 | |
TV and behaviour is still being debated. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:09 | |
But it was Bandura who opened the floodgates, | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
and launched an entirely new area of research. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:16 | |
Right. OK - oven on... | 0:37:24 | 0:37:27 | |
'Bandura had shown that we CAN be strongly influenced | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
'by other people's behaviour. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:32 | |
'This is the basis of so-called social learning theory.' | 0:37:32 | 0:37:36 | |
We don't have a bowl. | 0:37:36 | 0:37:38 | |
-OK, so we measure out about... -How much? -Four ounces, I think. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
Which one's ounces? The quarter one? | 0:37:42 | 0:37:44 | |
'But it's also clear that how we learn changes as we mature. | 0:37:44 | 0:37:50 | |
'As we grow up, something else happens to temper our behaviour. | 0:37:50 | 0:37:55 | |
'We develop a capacity to reflect on what we see. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:59 | |
'We identify with other people. | 0:38:00 | 0:38:03 | |
'We develop empathy.' | 0:38:03 | 0:38:05 | |
-Mmm... Tastes good. -It's good, isn't it? | 0:38:05 | 0:38:08 | |
'So how exactly do we DO this?' | 0:38:09 | 0:38:12 | |
Well, for decades nobody really knew, and then researchers developed | 0:38:12 | 0:38:17 | |
new ways of looking inside the brain for answers. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:21 | |
I'm on my way to Holland, to experience experimentation | 0:38:29 | 0:38:32 | |
21st-century style. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:35 | |
We've left the world of abuse and exploitation behind - | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
though what I'm about to do WILL involve pain. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
Christian Keysers is researching empathy, | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
by trying to watch it at work in our brains. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:55 | |
So we think the big question is a bit, how we understand other people. | 0:38:58 | 0:39:02 | |
And I think you've all experienced that sometimes you'd | 0:39:02 | 0:39:05 | |
see your partner, for instance, accidentally hurting herself. | 0:39:05 | 0:39:09 | |
And when you see that, the funny thing is you don't just realise | 0:39:09 | 0:39:12 | |
that the other person IS in pain, | 0:39:12 | 0:39:14 | |
but you almost have to hold your own finger, because you kind of embody | 0:39:14 | 0:39:18 | |
to a certain extent the pain of the other. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:21 | |
And so what our lab is all about | 0:39:21 | 0:39:23 | |
is trying to understand, at the level of the brain, | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
what happens while we get these very strong insights | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
into what somebody else is feeling. | 0:39:30 | 0:39:32 | |
Christian is investigating the extent to which our own feelings of pain | 0:39:34 | 0:39:39 | |
are important in understanding the pain of others. | 0:39:39 | 0:39:43 | |
So basically there's going to be two phases to the experiment... | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
There's a first phase in which you're going to be watching movies, | 0:39:48 | 0:39:52 | |
and then there's going to be a part | 0:39:52 | 0:39:54 | |
where you're going to be actually experiencing some moderate pain... | 0:39:54 | 0:39:59 | |
How are you going to create the pain? | 0:39:59 | 0:40:01 | |
Well, I think you're going to find out a little bit later on | 0:40:01 | 0:40:04 | |
in the experiment. | 0:40:04 | 0:40:06 | |
'Christian is going to collect two sets of data. | 0:40:10 | 0:40:13 | |
'First, he records what happens in MY brain | 0:40:13 | 0:40:16 | |
'when I see someone else in pain.' | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
OK, ready to go? | 0:40:19 | 0:40:20 | |
-Yep. -OK, here we go... | 0:40:20 | 0:40:22 | |
-OK, Michael? How was that? -Fine... | 0:40:35 | 0:40:38 | |
'Then, he measures what happens in my brain, when I am repeatedly | 0:40:38 | 0:40:41 | |
'and enthusiastically whacked by one of his colleagues.' | 0:40:41 | 0:40:45 | |
Three, two, one... Go. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:47 | |
Three, two, one... Stop. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
'The two brain scans can then be compared. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
'What they're finding suggests that empathy is actually measurable. | 0:40:57 | 0:41:01 | |
'Many of the same brain areas light up, whether we are experiencing pain | 0:41:01 | 0:41:07 | |
'or watching someone else in pain.' | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
What's really special about this area we're in, | 0:41:13 | 0:41:16 | |
is that by seeing that the same brain area is active in two cases | 0:41:16 | 0:41:21 | |
you don't just see WHERE in the brain it's being done, | 0:41:21 | 0:41:24 | |
but you see that it's done by this recall of your own experience. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:28 | |
When tested this way, people show very different responses. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:38 | |
I'm a bit nervous. | 0:41:38 | 0:41:40 | |
Will the machine reveal that I am warm and empathic - | 0:41:41 | 0:41:45 | |
or perhaps a secret psychopath? | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
"I often have tender, concerned feelings | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
"for people less fortunate than me"... | 0:41:52 | 0:41:54 | |
Yeah, I... Mmm, yeah. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:56 | |
'This questionnaire will help them compare how empathetic I think I am | 0:41:56 | 0:42:02 | |
'with how empathetic the MACHINE thinks I am.' | 0:42:02 | 0:42:05 | |
"When I see someone get hurt, I tend to remain calm"... | 0:42:06 | 0:42:10 | |
No, that probably doesn't describe me very well. | 0:42:10 | 0:42:12 | |
'First, Christian shows me what happened when I was slapped.' | 0:42:14 | 0:42:18 | |
This created very reasonable results. So you... | 0:42:19 | 0:42:22 | |
you did activate your S1, | 0:42:22 | 0:42:24 | |
-your S2, your insula and your ACC, just like your average Joe. -OK... | 0:42:24 | 0:42:29 | |
'So far, I was normal. I'd activated areas involved in | 0:42:29 | 0:42:33 | |
'sensation and emotion, like most people do.' | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
Now, this is the part where you probably want to distract your wife. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:42 | |
While we were showing you the movies the first thing we saw was this. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:47 | |
None of the red areas get reactivated while you observed it. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:51 | |
And now you can call her again, because what we then did was | 0:42:52 | 0:42:55 | |
we lowered the threshold a bit, kind of looking for weaker activity, | 0:42:55 | 0:42:59 | |
and when we did that, we actually saw that you do have activity | 0:42:59 | 0:43:03 | |
that is typical - but there was lower than what we find on average. | 0:43:03 | 0:43:07 | |
So I'm not a psychopath, | 0:43:08 | 0:43:10 | |
but I'm not, erm...wholly in touch with the feelings of others? | 0:43:10 | 0:43:13 | |
-Exactly. You're not the most soft-hearted person, maybe. -OK. | 0:43:13 | 0:43:19 | |
Where you reacted yesterday... | 0:43:19 | 0:43:20 | |
'What made it more embarrassing, was the brain images | 0:43:20 | 0:43:23 | |
'did not match the answers I had given on the questionnaire.' | 0:43:23 | 0:43:27 | |
OK - maybe I lack insight, then. | 0:43:27 | 0:43:29 | |
That could actually be, because one of the funny things is | 0:43:30 | 0:43:34 | |
when we scanned a psychopath, | 0:43:34 | 0:43:36 | |
the brain images really suggested that they weren't all that empathic, | 0:43:36 | 0:43:41 | |
but the questionnaires made it look like they were model citizens! | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
Oh, God, so I AM a psychopath?! There you go. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:48 | |
Well, maybe that's pushing it a little bit, but... | 0:43:48 | 0:43:51 | |
I think what tends to happen is we tend to, erm, | 0:43:51 | 0:43:53 | |
exaggerate our best characters, don't we? We have vain brains. | 0:43:53 | 0:43:56 | |
-Yes. -Yes, quite. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:58 | |
So what the brain scans are doing, in a funny way, | 0:43:58 | 0:44:01 | |
is they are answering one of the more fundamental questions - | 0:44:01 | 0:44:04 | |
which is who are we, as opposed to who we THINK we are. | 0:44:04 | 0:44:07 | |
Yes! | 0:44:07 | 0:44:09 | |
Our understanding of empathy is developing, | 0:44:15 | 0:44:18 | |
because today's technology allows us to see inside the brain. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:22 | |
It's revealing that empathy seems to be deeply embedded | 0:44:23 | 0:44:27 | |
in the networks of our minds. | 0:44:27 | 0:44:29 | |
While I'm witnessing you go through some experiences, | 0:44:30 | 0:44:34 | |
my brain does exactly that - | 0:44:34 | 0:44:36 | |
it doesn't just make me SEE what is going on in you, | 0:44:36 | 0:44:39 | |
it makes me share all the different senses. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:42 | |
I will feel the pain you go through, | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
I will empathise with the actions you do to get away from it. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
It really reminds us of the fact | 0:44:51 | 0:44:53 | |
that we are kind of incredibly social by nature - | 0:44:53 | 0:44:57 | |
that kind of everybody around us | 0:44:57 | 0:44:59 | |
is not just around us, but kind of IN us. | 0:44:59 | 0:45:02 | |
Cutting-edge technology, and sometimes brutal experiments, | 0:45:11 | 0:45:16 | |
have each opened a window onto human emotions. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:19 | |
But there is another way we have come to learn about | 0:45:19 | 0:45:23 | |
the role of emotions in our lives, and that's an accidental by-product | 0:45:23 | 0:45:27 | |
of terrible personal misfortune. | 0:45:27 | 0:45:31 | |
In the 1990s, a neuroscientist called Antonio Damasio started researching | 0:45:35 | 0:45:41 | |
patients who had damaged a part of the brain key for normal emotions. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:46 | |
He was struck by the differences in the way they were making decisions. | 0:45:49 | 0:45:54 | |
His research would reveal the | 0:45:54 | 0:45:57 | |
surprisingly pervasive role emotions have in every corner of our lives. | 0:45:57 | 0:46:02 | |
Dave is a patient, like those in Damasio's original study. | 0:46:05 | 0:46:10 | |
Until eight years ago, life was good. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:14 | |
We, um, had a really good relationship I think. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:21 | |
Very affectionate, yeah. Very loving. | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
He could put himself in my shoes and think about, | 0:46:25 | 0:46:29 | |
what could he do to make me feel | 0:46:29 | 0:46:31 | |
more at ease? And so he would do those kinds of nice things. | 0:46:31 | 0:46:36 | |
In 2002, Dave was diagnosed | 0:46:37 | 0:46:39 | |
with a brain tumour, and had surgery to remove it. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:43 | |
What neither he nor his wife realised, | 0:46:44 | 0:46:47 | |
was that the operation would involve | 0:46:47 | 0:46:49 | |
removing a part of his brain crucial for processing emotion. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:54 | |
When he woke up, he just was... | 0:46:54 | 0:46:59 | |
really um...cold. | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
He told me he didn't want me to touch him, or talk to him... | 0:47:01 | 0:47:06 | |
The doctor came, the surgeon, and I said, you know, | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
"That's not Dave. What happened?" | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
Dave's IQ was unaffected, and he has returned to his job | 0:47:14 | 0:47:19 | |
as an animal psychologist. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
But he is very conscious of being changed. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:24 | |
'A lot has gone, from that aspect. Emotionally flat.' | 0:47:25 | 0:47:30 | |
It's... that's the toughest thing, is uh... | 0:47:32 | 0:47:35 | |
you don't realise how important emotions are | 0:47:35 | 0:47:37 | |
until you don't feel 'em, and you can only remember 'em. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:42 | |
-Hi... -Hi. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:46 | |
Dave had not fallen out of love with Lisa... | 0:47:47 | 0:47:50 | |
but he was no longer capable of feeling it. | 0:47:50 | 0:47:53 | |
They divorced - but she remains devoted to him, | 0:47:53 | 0:47:56 | |
and takes him to all his medical appointments. | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
Do you want any more coffee before we go? | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
No, I've just filled up. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:06 | |
Well, shall we...? | 0:48:07 | 0:48:08 | |
All right. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
Dave's case is so rare, | 0:48:13 | 0:48:16 | |
he is being studied by a doctor who trained under Antonio Damasio. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:21 | |
At Wisconsin University, Dr Koenig is continuing | 0:48:22 | 0:48:25 | |
the investigations started by his teacher, into the impact of emotions | 0:48:25 | 0:48:29 | |
on our capacity to reason. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:32 | |
So is it fair to say that | 0:48:36 | 0:48:38 | |
you're maybe not operating with the same intuition in terms of emotion, | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
but you're relying more on the sort of cognitive or rule-based | 0:48:41 | 0:48:45 | |
strategy to try to...you know, put together what this person might be | 0:48:45 | 0:48:48 | |
thinking, and, you know, "What is MY responsibility in this situation?" | 0:48:48 | 0:48:53 | |
Right. It's... | 0:48:53 | 0:48:54 | |
I have to... think about what it would feel like | 0:48:54 | 0:48:57 | |
rather than feel it. | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
Mm-hm... | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
I was...thinking the other day... | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
And I don't want this to sound strange, but I imagined, | 0:49:05 | 0:49:09 | |
"Well, maybe serial killers don't have emotions"... | 0:49:09 | 0:49:14 | |
Not that I would ever be a serial killer, but I think | 0:49:14 | 0:49:18 | |
I have that sense of... | 0:49:18 | 0:49:20 | |
-..it doesn't bother me. -Mm-hm. -You know what I mean? | 0:49:21 | 0:49:24 | |
But the thing that prevents me from BEING a serial killer | 0:49:24 | 0:49:28 | |
is that I... can remember that I'm not. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
Hello... | 0:49:38 | 0:49:39 | |
'What Dave is experiencing is intensely personal, | 0:49:39 | 0:49:43 | |
'but it is also scientifically revealing. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:46 | |
'I wanted to meet Dave's doctor, to find out what had happened | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
'to his brain to produce these profound changes.' | 0:49:50 | 0:49:54 | |
So what are we looking at? | 0:49:56 | 0:49:58 | |
So here we're looking at Dave's brain | 0:49:58 | 0:50:00 | |
in a number of different views. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:03 | |
As we move forward in his brain | 0:50:03 | 0:50:05 | |
you can see, here are his eyes... | 0:50:05 | 0:50:07 | |
Ooh, dear... | 0:50:07 | 0:50:08 | |
Yeah, so...so right above his eyes you can see... | 0:50:08 | 0:50:12 | |
-That's tragic. -..very obviously a loss of tissue there on the right. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:15 | |
Can he still... READ emotions - say, in Lisa... | 0:50:16 | 0:50:20 | |
If he saw someone crying, I mean, he would know that, | 0:50:20 | 0:50:22 | |
you know, tears mean this person is sad. | 0:50:22 | 0:50:24 | |
Now, if that would MEAN anything to him, if that would impact him | 0:50:24 | 0:50:28 | |
emotionally, is a different question. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
So he can probably recognise these social and emotional cues | 0:50:30 | 0:50:35 | |
that are emitted by other people, but... | 0:50:35 | 0:50:39 | |
you know, can he use those to influence | 0:50:39 | 0:50:41 | |
HIS decision-making, is a different process. | 0:50:41 | 0:50:44 | |
Patients like Dave are making it increasingly clear | 0:50:45 | 0:50:49 | |
that our power to reason is NOT independent of our emotions. | 0:50:49 | 0:50:54 | |
They are supporting the evidence first gathered by Antonio Damasio. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:59 | |
Through most of the 20th century there was this | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
really predominant view that our decision-making is dominated by some | 0:51:03 | 0:51:09 | |
cold, logical processing, some reasoning. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:12 | |
So I think Antonio Damasio's work | 0:51:12 | 0:51:15 | |
was seminal from the standpoint of highlighting the importance of | 0:51:15 | 0:51:19 | |
emotion for decision-making. And patients like Dave were really | 0:51:19 | 0:51:24 | |
the key piece of evidence like that. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:28 | |
Damasio undermined the widely held belief that most of our decisions are | 0:51:29 | 0:51:34 | |
logical ones, by devising an ingenious test. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:38 | |
He took his inspiration from gambling. | 0:51:38 | 0:51:41 | |
He devised a gambling test, that would try to mimic the uncertain mix | 0:51:44 | 0:51:50 | |
of risk and benefits that we juggle with in everyday life. | 0:51:50 | 0:51:54 | |
Damasio was convinced that, even when we THINK we are making a decision | 0:51:55 | 0:51:58 | |
based on reasoning, we are actually following an emotional hunch. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:03 | |
'Damasio tested this by a carefully designed gambling task.' | 0:52:05 | 0:52:10 | |
OK, so I've got 2,000... | 0:52:11 | 0:52:13 | |
and I will pick this one here. | 0:52:13 | 0:52:16 | |
Reward, penalty... Good, I'm 2,100. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:18 | |
Let's keep going on that one. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:20 | |
'I'm playing a computer version of the game. | 0:52:20 | 0:52:23 | |
'The player is offered four rows of cards. | 0:52:23 | 0:52:25 | |
'They sample each one, and find out that two of them | 0:52:25 | 0:52:29 | |
'will give them small but consistent rewards.' | 0:52:29 | 0:52:32 | |
I like this one... | 0:52:32 | 0:52:33 | |
'The other two give them big rewards, but also big losses.' | 0:52:33 | 0:52:37 | |
Aaagh...! | 0:52:37 | 0:52:39 | |
Damn! | 0:52:39 | 0:52:41 | |
'Normal people respond before they are even aware of this. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:44 | |
'They just instinctively feel wary of the risky cards.' | 0:52:44 | 0:52:48 | |
Oh... That's a bad one. That is a bad one. | 0:52:48 | 0:52:51 | |
'They are not necessarily conscious of this. | 0:52:52 | 0:52:55 | |
'They have an emotional cue - | 0:52:55 | 0:52:58 | |
'what we often call a gut instinct.' | 0:52:58 | 0:53:01 | |
"You earned a total of 2,900." Whoa! | 0:53:05 | 0:53:08 | |
"You may now leave. Please alert the experimenter that you are done. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:11 | |
"Press the X to exit." | 0:53:11 | 0:53:14 | |
So, yes... OK, that was fun! | 0:53:14 | 0:53:18 | |
'What struck me, was I had no idea I was getting an emotional cue.' | 0:53:18 | 0:53:24 | |
That feels like a sort of simple, logical decision, | 0:53:24 | 0:53:26 | |
it doesn't feel like an emotional decision. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:28 | |
Right - well, in the end, after enough experience, | 0:53:28 | 0:53:32 | |
you do sort of process it at this sort of | 0:53:32 | 0:53:35 | |
explicit level, where you say "This is just a logical choice." | 0:53:35 | 0:53:38 | |
But as you're going through the test, what we've found is that | 0:53:38 | 0:53:41 | |
neurologically healthy individuals | 0:53:41 | 0:53:43 | |
will start to move towards the safer decks before they can explicitly | 0:53:43 | 0:53:47 | |
articulate that these decks are safer than the other ones. | 0:53:47 | 0:53:51 | |
So they seem to be operating more on an emotional hunch. | 0:53:51 | 0:53:53 | |
So actually, what I think of as a logical decision is actually | 0:53:53 | 0:53:58 | |
a rationalisation after the event - my gut has already decided which is | 0:53:58 | 0:54:02 | |
the safe bet, and then my... intelligence catches up with it! | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
Yeah, that's one way to put it, that your emotional system | 0:54:05 | 0:54:07 | |
is really the instrument of learning here, which precedes | 0:54:07 | 0:54:10 | |
your sort of conscious awareness. | 0:54:10 | 0:54:12 | |
-DAVE: -50 bucks... | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
Dave has never done the gambling test before. | 0:54:18 | 0:54:21 | |
With his damaged emotions, how will he do? | 0:54:22 | 0:54:25 | |
Right, I lose money there. | 0:54:32 | 0:54:34 | |
Penalties... | 0:54:35 | 0:54:37 | |
-You owe us some money, Dave! -I do. -You owe us some money. | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
-1,500... 1,450. -Get your chequebook out. | 0:54:48 | 0:54:52 | |
-I'd rather owe it to you. -DR KOENIG LAUGHS | 0:54:52 | 0:54:54 | |
Yeah, I didn't learn anything on that, did I? | 0:54:54 | 0:54:57 | |
-You win some, you lose some. That's what gambling's all about. -Yep. | 0:54:57 | 0:55:01 | |
So as you were doing it, did you have any feeling that | 0:55:01 | 0:55:03 | |
"This is sort of a risky decision", or "This is a safe play", or...? | 0:55:03 | 0:55:08 | |
Um...no. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:10 | |
We go through life thinking decisions we make - big or small - | 0:55:21 | 0:55:25 | |
are the result of our uniquely human ability to think rationally. | 0:55:25 | 0:55:30 | |
But as Dave and other | 0:55:30 | 0:55:32 | |
unfortunate individuals show us, reason without emotion is nothing. | 0:55:32 | 0:55:37 | |
On a more personal level, | 0:55:43 | 0:55:45 | |
Dave also shows us how vital emotion is to feeling alive, | 0:55:45 | 0:55:50 | |
and how crucial empathy is to even knowing who you are. | 0:55:50 | 0:55:55 | |
I'm going through life missing some of these important pieces that | 0:55:56 | 0:56:03 | |
we don't have to think about, that just happen. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:06 | |
The longer I go basing what I should feel on memory, | 0:56:09 | 0:56:14 | |
I'm kind of nervous that eventually the memory will fade, | 0:56:14 | 0:56:18 | |
and then trying to remember what the actual emotion felt like will be... | 0:56:18 | 0:56:23 | |
..more mysterious. | 0:56:24 | 0:56:25 | |
At least now I have the memory - | 0:56:27 | 0:56:29 | |
so I can at least go through life with that understanding. | 0:56:29 | 0:56:34 | |
If I didn't have that memory... | 0:56:34 | 0:56:37 | |
..I guess it would be a lonely, lonely existence. | 0:56:38 | 0:56:43 | |
BAT CHIRRUPS | 0:56:45 | 0:56:47 | |
CHILD SHRIEKS AND GIGGLES | 0:56:55 | 0:56:56 | |
Whoa...! | 0:57:01 | 0:57:02 | |
You want to try that, Clare? | 0:57:04 | 0:57:06 | |
'Nearly a century since Watson set out to terrify Little Albert, | 0:57:07 | 0:57:11 | |
'and in the process triggered an extraordinary | 0:57:11 | 0:57:13 | |
'and sometimes disturbing quest to try and understand human emotions... | 0:57:13 | 0:57:18 | |
'..we now realise that, far from being something you have to curb, | 0:57:20 | 0:57:24 | |
'suppress, restrain,' | 0:57:24 | 0:57:27 | |
emotions are actually central to becoming a rational, complex, | 0:57:27 | 0:57:31 | |
fully functioning human being. | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
Snap! | 0:57:35 | 0:57:38 | |
'But the price of applying the scientific method | 0:57:39 | 0:57:42 | |
'to the study of the mind has been high - | 0:57:42 | 0:57:46 | |
'terribly high in some cases. | 0:57:46 | 0:57:48 | |
'And this leaves me with conflicting feelings.' | 0:57:48 | 0:57:52 | |
Some of the experiments, particularly the later work with monkeys carried | 0:57:55 | 0:57:59 | |
out by Harlow, and the experiments done on Little Albert, you just | 0:57:59 | 0:58:03 | |
couldn't justify, you couldn't get away with, in the modern age. | 0:58:03 | 0:58:06 | |
I certainly would obviously | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
never allow any of MY children to be terrified as part of an experiment. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
But do I think it was worthwhile in the end? | 0:58:12 | 0:58:15 | |
Yes, I do. I'm glad it was done. | 0:58:15 | 0:58:18 | |
I do believe that the knowledge that was gained | 0:58:18 | 0:58:21 | |
was worth the price that was paid. | 0:58:21 | 0:58:24 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:49 | 0:58:52 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:58:52 | 0:58:54 |