Browse content similar to The Third Voice. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
This programme contains strong language and some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting | 0:00:02 | 0:00:10 | |
When we fished Rafe Carey out of the river, he was as clean as a whistle. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
He'd been washed clean by the river running over him for five hours. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:04 | |
That shirt of his was as clean as the moment | 0:01:12 | 0:01:14 | |
he put it on that morning. Cleaner, probably. | 0:01:14 | 0:01:16 | |
Durridge's, too. Beautifully laundered. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:18 | |
The reason I thought of it, | 0:01:18 | 0:01:20 | |
everything I was wearing was laundered. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
Suit dry-cleaned, shirt pristine, new boots. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:25 | |
Only, I was alive and he was dead. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:30 | |
The Tweed took him and swept him away and smashed him up | 0:01:34 | 0:01:37 | |
and washed him clean. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:39 | |
But he didn't die from being smacked on the rocks | 0:01:39 | 0:01:41 | |
and he didn't die from drowning. | 0:01:41 | 0:01:43 | |
He died from a deep stab wound | 0:01:43 | 0:01:46 | |
just beside his armpit, near his heart. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
Near enough bled out. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:53 | |
Murder - my first day back. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
How can Ruth be dead and I'm not? How can that be? | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
In a way, it would've been better. If one of them had to go, | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
it would've been better... | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
Might've been better if it was Leo. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
I can't believe I said that. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
She had to persuade him, Rafe. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
She thought I couldn't hear him on the phone to him, but I could. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
They love to talk, the middle classes. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:39 | |
The chattering classes. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
They think if they talk long enough, the facts will bend round and fit. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:44 | |
That's their experience of life - persuasion, nuance, finesse. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:55 | |
I've got colleagues who try and hector | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
the middle classes in interrogation. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
'Prod them and poke them and keep to the point. Wrong.' | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
Sit back and listen. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
Drink that stuff in. I love to listen to that. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:08 | |
Listen to them trying to recast a catastrophe word by word. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:11 | |
Because, as I said before, I go fishing with him. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
He's been trying and trying to get me to go fishing with him | 0:03:14 | 0:03:17 | |
and then, each time, on the day, I've pulled out, | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
after he's paid out for fishing permits | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
and taken the day off work and whatever. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
Wasn't up to it. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
Now, finally, I say yes, and Katrina can see I mean it and she couldn't | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
be happier and she's phoned and said, | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
"This time he really means it." | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
And then, it rains all night and blows a gale | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
and any normal human being would cancel, | 0:03:38 | 0:03:40 | |
but she's calling him first thing and asking him not to. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:42 | |
THUNDER RUMBLES | 0:03:42 | 0:03:43 | |
"I know it's not the weather for it, but, please, Rafe. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
"For me. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:50 | |
"For me." | 0:03:53 | 0:03:54 | |
"Please, God." I was thinking, "Please, God, let it go well. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
"Let this be the start. Please." | 0:03:58 | 0:04:02 | |
Because he can't grieve. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
While he's blaming Rafe, he can't grieve. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
And if he can't grieve, then I can't grieve. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
Sonia's all alone. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:15 | |
And we're all alone. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
She ran me there in the car on the way to work. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:35 | |
No time to stop, no time to stop. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:37 | |
She was desperate to get me there. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:38 | |
Get it done. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:41 | |
He asked me to stop halfway there, stop at the cash machine. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
I said, "There's no time for that." | 0:04:50 | 0:04:52 | |
I thought, "He's just going to walk away. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:54 | |
"It's going to be the same thing all over again." | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
But he came back to the car. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
The whole time, I thought, "He's just going to walk away." | 0:05:00 | 0:05:03 | |
But he didn't. He didn't. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:05 | |
I knew then he was really going through with it | 0:05:06 | 0:05:08 | |
Which cashpoint? Where? | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
I could feel the police parts of my brain getting back in gear. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
Did they stop at the cashpoint or didn't they? | 0:05:14 | 0:05:16 | |
The cogs starting to grind. She said, "The Bank of Scotland one. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:19 | |
"The one round the corner from the other two." | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
She says there's never a queue, | 0:05:21 | 0:05:23 | |
that people don't know it's there. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:24 | |
I said, "I'll take the car and drop you at work," | 0:05:24 | 0:05:27 | |
but she didn't want that. She wanted to make sure I really went, | 0:05:27 | 0:05:30 | |
but also, that we'd go in the same car, me and Rafe. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
And we'd be sitting together and we would talk | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
while we drove to the river. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:37 | |
There'd be banter. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:40 | |
I told her once, talking in cars was easy. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
She remembered that. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:46 | |
You don't have the eye contact thing and there's stuff going on, | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
other stuff. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:51 | |
Probably she said that to Rafe | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
and that's where he's come up with the fishing idea in the first place. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
Same as in the car, sit side by side, not across from someone, | 0:05:56 | 0:06:00 | |
and there's things... | 0:06:00 | 0:06:01 | |
going on, things in the river or flask of coffee. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
Sandwiches, business with tackle, business with the bait. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
Before you know it, time's passing, conversation's flowing. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:12 | |
I said, "I told her it was too wild, Rafe, but she won't listen." | 0:06:14 | 0:06:18 | |
I said, "We're never going to catch any fish in this." | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
He said, "Since when is going fishing | 0:06:20 | 0:06:22 | |
"had anything to do with fish?" | 0:06:22 | 0:06:23 | |
He put his hand on my shoulder. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:25 | |
He said, "I'm right, aren't I, Leo?" | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
He was a big toucher, Rafe. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
Big hand-on-the-shoulder guy. He touched me. She saw it. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
I kept our energy up. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:38 | |
"Try again. We'll have another. We're still young." | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
And all the time, Rafe was desperate to make amends. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
To see us again, to see him. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
So I'd say, "You really mustn't blame Rafe. You really mustn't. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:52 | |
"He feels nearly as bad as we do." | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
And he'd say, "Rafe is your brother. You're bound to say that. | 0:06:55 | 0:06:59 | |
"But he doesn't, he goes home every day to that big house of theirs, | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
"with three kids of his own, two of Emma's and, maybe, | 0:07:02 | 0:07:06 | |
"now and then, they think about us and what they did. Now and then." | 0:07:06 | 0:07:11 | |
And I'd say, "What they DID, Leo? But what did they do? | 0:07:11 | 0:07:16 | |
"Tell me what they did. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:18 | |
"They looked after our daughter when we were away. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:24 | |
"They looked after her, but she was ill and she died. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
"Nobody could've stopped that. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
"Nobody. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:33 | |
"They did their best, they wanted to help. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:37 | |
"They acted with love and in good faith | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
"and a terrible thing still happened. | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
"And as long as you keep acting like this was somehow Rafe's fault, | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
"then we can't deal with it. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:49 | |
"We can't deal with it. You and me." | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
"Here are the rods, the chairs, the keep nets, the boots. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
"Just add water," he said. "We've plenty of that". | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
He was kind, Rafe. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
He was always kind to me. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:38 | |
"He was gung-ho. He was cavalier with our daughter's life. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
"He never feels a moment's doubt, yet he's always wrong. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
"He's got five strapping lads and he doesn't know. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
"He doesn't know what it's like to have one little girl | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
"and then, to have nothing. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:50 | |
"Nothing." | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
That's what he said. | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
"Nothing." | 0:08:57 | 0:08:59 | |
CHILD LAUGHS | 0:09:02 | 0:09:04 | |
I'd drop it. I'd go back to keeping him alive. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
Three years nearly, keeping him alive | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
when he'd rather have been dead. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:17 | |
Put my own grief on hold for that. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:19 | |
My grief for Sonia. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
Still on hold. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:24 | |
Then, last night, it was...it was like | 0:09:31 | 0:09:34 | |
not a door had opened, but maybe, a window - | 0:09:34 | 0:09:37 | |
a tiny window - and let in some light, some tiny glimmer of light. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:43 | |
And he was just that tiny bit more like himself | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
and I thought, "This is a man who can forgive." | 0:09:46 | 0:09:48 | |
After I dropped him off, | 0:09:54 | 0:09:55 | |
I had to stop the car halfway to work and just cry. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
It felt like the beginning. | 0:09:58 | 0:09:59 | |
MAN: Detective Sergeant Corinne Evans | 0:10:12 | 0:10:14 | |
is an officer with an exemplary track record. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
Her training and probation were characterised | 0:10:19 | 0:10:22 | |
by high marks and extremely positive feedback. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
Her career progress since that time | 0:10:26 | 0:10:28 | |
has been swift and assured. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
She has been in her current post for two years, during which time | 0:10:31 | 0:10:35 | |
she has been commended for her initiative and her detective work | 0:10:35 | 0:10:38 | |
and received the prestigious Borders Area Police Bravery Award. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:44 | |
Three months ago, her friend Laura McDade was killed | 0:10:45 | 0:10:50 | |
in a hit and run on the A703. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:51 | |
Detective Sergeant Evans requested permission to investigate | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
the incident, but was refused. | 0:10:57 | 0:10:59 | |
A charge of insubordination | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
and another of criminal damage were brought and subsequently dropped, | 0:11:02 | 0:11:06 | |
on compassionate grounds, and Corinne Evans was referred to me | 0:11:06 | 0:11:11 | |
for bereavement counselling. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:12 | |
I recommended a course | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
of ten therapeutic sessions, all of which DS Evans attended punctually. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:21 | |
"Frankie! Frankie! Frankie!" Shouts from the river bank. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:26 | |
I could hear the panic in the voice, the concern. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
We left the rods and walked upstream a bit, to where the rapids are. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
He thought I should take a video of the kingfisher on my phone, | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
thought Katrina would like it. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:38 | |
I could hear three people. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:40 | |
Hear them over the rushing of the river, the roaring of the wind. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
Someone the shouter cared about. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
Then, the splash. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:51 | |
The sort of shouts you should tell someone about, | 0:11:53 | 0:11:55 | |
if you talk to people. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:56 | |
Up. There. | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
He said the rapids oxygenate the water. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
He said you can get a lot of fish there if you know what you're doing. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
He did not know what he was doing. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
The water was high, high and fast. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:14 | |
It was tearing away the banks. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
"It's stupid standing here, Rafe. It's stupid." | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
I said that. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:20 | |
It had us in the blink of an eye. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:38 | |
It was like being dragged by a powerboat by your ankle. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
I knew right away the river had taken him. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
The river had us... | 0:12:49 | 0:12:51 | |
'..both of us.' | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
I like to cover all the bases, because now and then, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
I get told I'm over-zealous. So, I said to the pathologist, | 0:12:56 | 0:13:00 | |
I said, "He was tossed around in the water for hours. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:03 | |
"Could it have been, I don't know, a branch off a tree or a sharp stone? | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
"Was it definitely a bladed weapon?" | 0:13:06 | 0:13:08 | |
He said, "Let me see... It was definitely a bladed weapon. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
"But I suppose it could've been wielded by a big pike or a salmon." | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
One of those who doesn't smile when he's joking. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
Dry type, likes to tug at your blue collar. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:20 | |
I said, "Could it have been something on the river bed? | 0:13:20 | 0:13:23 | |
"A rusty bed frame or whatever?" | 0:13:23 | 0:13:24 | |
He said, "What, you're not following up my salmon lead, Sergeant Evans?" | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
Making me work for it. Selling himself long. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
I get this a lot - you're a copper, so you must be a halfwit. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
What I could've said? "I've got a degree, too, you know." | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
Wasn't in the mood for it. Something about the time off. | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
I just moved up six inches closer, put a bit of shadow on him. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
Clears his throat, | 0:13:48 | 0:13:50 | |
says the injury was sustained before he went in the river. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:53 | |
There was barely any water in the lungs. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
He sat down on his threadbare little work station chair, | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
not playing any more. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:01 | |
I stood there for a bit, scrutinising his bald spot. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
He opened his e-mails. Discussion over. I didn't budge. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:12 | |
Decides he has urgent business elsewhere. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:15 | |
Said, "The salmon, then?" He said, "What?" | 0:14:17 | 0:14:20 | |
I said, "The salmon, not the pike. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
"The salmon has the bigger leap." | 0:14:25 | 0:14:27 | |
But what about this stab wound, Leo? | 0:14:30 | 0:14:32 | |
Can we get back to that? | 0:14:32 | 0:14:33 | |
Your wife's brother's got a hole in him where no hole should be. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
The bank gave way. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:40 | |
You say there was no-one else there with | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
the two of you on the river bank. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:44 | |
So you can tell which way my mind's going on this. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
If there was no-one else there, there's only you could've done it. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:49 | |
He shut up, then. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:51 | |
Looked like a man put on the spot to recall his wedding anniversary. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
His mouth half open | 0:14:54 | 0:14:56 | |
ready for words, but none came. | 0:14:56 | 0:14:57 | |
And what about this stop at the cash machine? | 0:14:58 | 0:15:00 | |
You didn't mention that. | 0:15:00 | 0:15:01 | |
Your wife told me that you asked her to stop at the cash machine | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
this morning. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:05 | |
I just didn't want Rafe Carey paying for everything, like he always does. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:09 | |
But we checked, Leo. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:10 | |
You didn't take any money out of the cash machine. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
You HAD money, but you didn't withdraw it. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
Why go to a cash machine, but not get money? | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
Do you want to start telling us the truth, Leo, | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
instead of all these lies? You'll feel better for it. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:24 | |
The pathologist tells me Rafe Carey had heads injuries | 0:15:24 | 0:15:26 | |
inconsistent with those he got in the river. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:29 | |
Maybe you provided those. Did you, Leo? | 0:15:29 | 0:15:31 | |
We found a £20 note by the river bank. | 0:15:33 | 0:15:35 | |
Did you fight over money? | 0:15:35 | 0:15:37 | |
Did Rafe Carey try to pay for everything again? | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
Did it make you feel small? | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
You lost your job, didn't you, when your daughter died? | 0:15:44 | 0:15:47 | |
You were unemployed for over a year. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
Did you murder Rafe Carey, Leo? | 0:15:51 | 0:15:54 | |
Did you argue with him by the river and kill him? | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
I have seen him blank things out before. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:05 | |
He blanked Sonia out when she died. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
Never talked to Rafe about what had happened, | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
never uttered Sonia's name, from that day to this. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
I used to say to him, I'd beg him. "Say it, Leo." | 0:16:14 | 0:16:18 | |
"Say Sonia. Say Sonia." | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
But he wouldn't. He hasn't. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
He can't. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:29 | |
And that was what he was doing. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
He was blanking it out, shredding it in that head of his. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:40 | |
I said, "Tell me again. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:42 | |
"You were stood on the bank and the bank was swept away." | 0:16:42 | 0:16:45 | |
It was me that made them go and neither of them wanted to. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
Say Sonia. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:00 | |
Say Sonia. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
Say Sonia. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
He might be a lot of things, but he is not a murderer, Frankie. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
On the path leading down to the swim, there's three sets of prints, | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
very clear. Two sets of matching rubber boots and a pair of trainers. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
Three. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:08 | |
-RECORDED VOICE: -Frankie! Frankie! Frankie! | 0:18:08 | 0:18:11 | |
Trainer prints match ones found in blood at the scene of an ABH | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
in Carlisle. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:15 | |
Frankie Alder was arrested for the ABH, but not charged. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
The trainers were his, though. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:20 | |
Frankie's not to be found at his last known abode, | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
so we contact his social worker. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:24 | |
His social worker is Leo Durridge's wife, Katrina. | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
It's almost disappointing. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:29 | |
Why would Frankie Alder be there at the river on a day like that? | 0:18:29 | 0:18:33 | |
She said, "You've been his caseworker for nearly three years. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
"Would you say that was typical of him? | 0:18:37 | 0:18:39 | |
"Walked by the river?" | 0:18:39 | 0:18:41 | |
I wouldn't have thought that was his thing, | 0:18:41 | 0:18:43 | |
but it is hard to say what is typical of somebody. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
People surprise you. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:48 | |
You've got to hang on to that in my line of work, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:50 | |
their capacity to do that. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:51 | |
I fell in the water. The clothes are trappings. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
That came to me out there. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:56 | |
"Clothes maketh the man." Not me, they don't. | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
Not now. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:02 | |
The words are trappings, that came true. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
Everything you've ever said, a mark against you. | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
And there's a tally they're keeping somewhere, | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
somewhere I'm not popular. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
If there's nothing to say, say nothing. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:17 | |
Think about what you say and what you do say, mean it. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:23 | |
Copper says, "What were you doing out there, Frankie? | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
"Where you go, trouble follows." | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
Not this time. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
Not next time, either. Not ever again. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:35 | |
"A new leaf, is it, Frankie?" | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
She's looking into me, trying to. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
She's judging. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:42 | |
Don't presume to know me, copper. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:46 | |
You don't know me, just like I don't know you. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
You weren't in that river. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:50 | |
You don't know me, deep down. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
She says... | 0:19:53 | 0:19:54 | |
"Sure, you know me, Frankie. Deep as you like." | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
-BOTH: -I'm the one that's going to send you to jail. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:00 | |
"What can you tell me about some death threats left on | 0:20:07 | 0:20:10 | |
"Rafe Carey's answer machine last year?" | 0:20:10 | 0:20:12 | |
-ANSWER PHONE: -..at a time when you least expect it. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
Deceased wife kept the messages. | 0:20:15 | 0:20:17 | |
Sounds a lot like Frankie Alder to me. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:19 | |
She says Katrina Durridge asked her not to call the police, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
told her that she'd sort it out personally. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:24 | |
I thought he was doing it for me. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
I spoke to him and it stopped. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
I thought he was doing it for me. I never thought that... | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
They have met. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:37 | |
Whether either of them would remember, I don't know. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
To give him his due, he doesn't deny being there. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:44 | |
I've been in the river and I'm out. | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
-I'm out. -Maybe he likes a walk | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
on a wet and stormy day. Maybe it frees his head. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
I said, "Were you unaware that one of the two men | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
"you must've seen there was your social worker's husband?" | 0:20:56 | 0:20:59 | |
"Oh, I presumed she was a lesbian," he says. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
I was with Leo in town and Frankie walked past. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:07 | |
He was smoking a cigarette, so he held it up to my face, | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
so I could see that it wasn't marijuana. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:12 | |
He was a wee bit aggressive. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:15 | |
So Leo said something like, "There's a time and a place." | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
That was quite bold for Leo. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
I was expecting a bit of comeback from Frankie, | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
but he just walked away. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:29 | |
Detective wanted to know if I'd mentioned Frankie's name to Leo. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:34 | |
She asked me that more than once. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:36 | |
Or if Leo had asked his name? I couldn't remember. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:40 | |
If he'd asked it, I would've told him. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
It's not like it's client confidentiality. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:45 | |
People know Frankie, anyway. It's a small town and... | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
..he's highly visible. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:52 | |
I felt sorry for him. He was a beggar. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:54 | |
I don't think he was a beggar, but he would beg, if he was desperate. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:58 | |
He'd sit beside the cash machine and ask if you had any spare change. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:01 | |
He said, "You're a lucky man." | 0:22:01 | 0:22:03 | |
Maybe six months back, I'd been going to walk past. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
He said, "Married to her." | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
I recognised him, then. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:12 | |
"Keeps you on the straight and narrow," he said. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:15 | |
"And a pretty face, as well. Sorry about your kid." | 0:22:15 | 0:22:18 | |
I gave him all the money I'd taken out of the machine. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
She kept leaving me longer than I needed for my answers, | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
trying to get me to say more. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
I use the same technique with my clients. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:34 | |
She was asking me, without asking me... | 0:22:37 | 0:22:39 | |
..whether I thought Leo might've approached Frankie...to hurt Rafe. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:45 | |
Maybe she was also asking whether I might've done that. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:52 | |
MUSIC PLAYS | 0:22:52 | 0:22:55 | |
I want my lawyer. I fell in the water. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
It was a while before that word got into my head - trappings. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:13 | |
It was there waiting, I just didn't know what it was. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
It knew me, though. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:17 | |
I couldn't have told you what it was before that. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
I couldn't have written it down. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
It needed me naked and nowhere and nothing to eat. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:26 | |
It needed me chewed up and spat out by the river. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
It needed me not to be me. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:31 | |
Then, there it was. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:33 | |
Like if you're sat somewhere really quiet | 0:23:33 | 0:23:35 | |
and you're maybe gouging out and a mouse comes out from the skirting. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
And the both of you are still as statues. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:41 | |
Trappings. Stuff that you live your life with. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:46 | |
The stuff that defines you. Your stuff, your possessions. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:50 | |
Maybe your normal routine. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
The things you do, the things people do to you. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
The fucking every day is the fucking same grindstone of shit | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
that makes up your life. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:01 | |
Trappings. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:03 | |
Probably if I knew words or had Miss McNaughton here, my old English | 0:24:03 | 0:24:07 | |
teacher, which I wouldn't, because she's a fucking bitch and a liar, | 0:24:07 | 0:24:11 | |
she'd say, "That sort of trappings, | 0:24:11 | 0:24:12 | |
"that has nothing to do with trapping, Frankie, | 0:24:12 | 0:24:15 | |
"with being trapped." | 0:24:15 | 0:24:16 | |
It goes back to William the fucking Conqueror | 0:24:16 | 0:24:18 | |
and what it means is that she'd be wrong. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:22 | |
I've thrown it off, the trappings. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:26 | |
I'm free in here, in this little box. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
They might think they've got me locked up, but they haven't. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
I'm like some yogi guru guy in an ashram in India, | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
who lives inside his head and only speaks once a year | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
and says something short and sweet that no-one gets | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
or people just pretend to. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:42 | |
"The heather is springy today." | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
And all his followers are analysing that for a year, | 0:24:44 | 0:24:46 | |
until he says something new, like, | 0:24:46 | 0:24:48 | |
"Forget what I said last year. That was bollocks. Forget it." | 0:24:48 | 0:24:54 | |
There's a kitchen knife set in that hostel where he lives | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
and, wouldn't you know it, the six-inch knife's missing. | 0:24:57 | 0:24:59 | |
Mind you, the place is a shithole. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:01 | |
Four out the six knives are gone, so... | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
It's gone... It's all gone. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:06 | |
Whatever it is I was, I'm not any more. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
I've thrown it off. It's gone. | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
The river took it. | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
The river saved me. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
The man won't speak. He won't speak and he won't wear shoes. | 0:25:30 | 0:25:34 | |
He'll hear the question. His expression might change, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:37 | |
but nothing will he say. | 0:25:37 | 0:25:38 | |
We've got the £20 note bearing the fingerprints of the deceased | 0:25:38 | 0:25:41 | |
and the footwear impressions on the path. That's it. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:44 | |
No murder weapon, no forensics. The river took the lot. I tried concern. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:48 | |
"People like you aren't supposed to do things like this and we worry | 0:25:48 | 0:25:53 | |
"about your state of mind, about what you might do to yourself." | 0:25:53 | 0:25:56 | |
Nothing. I tried small talk. | 0:25:56 | 0:25:57 | |
"The two of you are brothers-in-law. Did you get along? | 0:25:57 | 0:26:00 | |
"Did it annoy you that your wife stuck by him, that she | 0:26:00 | 0:26:04 | |
"didn't feel the same way as you? | 0:26:04 | 0:26:05 | |
"You'd have liked him out of your life, but she wouldn't | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
"do that, would she? What did that feel like, Leo? | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
"Like a betrayal?" | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
"How many times have you met Frankie Alder? | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
"Your wife tells me she introduced the pair of you. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
"Did he come looking for you or did you go looking for him?" | 0:26:37 | 0:26:41 | |
"One of your work colleagues tells me she saw you eating lunch | 0:26:41 | 0:26:44 | |
"with Frankie on a bench in Victoria Park. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
"Saw that more than once. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:48 | |
"And your phone records show calls to an unregistered phone | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
"normally present in the vicinity of where Frankie Alder stays. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
"The calls form a pattern. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
"They've been preceded by cash withdrawals of £250 | 0:27:01 | 0:27:04 | |
"from your current account. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:06 | |
"You usually withdraw no more than 100. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:09 | |
"There are three of these withdrawals, Leo, | 0:27:09 | 0:27:11 | |
"in the last six months, | 0:27:11 | 0:27:12 | |
all before or after calls to that number. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:15 | |
"Were you paying Frankie Alder, Leo? | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
"What for? To frighten Rafe Carey? | 0:27:21 | 0:27:25 | |
"To threaten him? Vandalise his property? | 0:27:25 | 0:27:28 | |
"What else? | 0:27:30 | 0:27:31 | |
"I said, did you pay Frankie Alder to murder Rafe Carey? | 0:27:33 | 0:27:38 | |
"Because that's still murder, Leo. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
"First the death threats, then the damage to his property, | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
"then kill him. Is that it?" | 0:27:43 | 0:27:45 | |
It's like he's in another room, | 0:27:48 | 0:27:50 | |
listening to the conversation. It's intriguing, it's very intriguing, | 0:27:50 | 0:27:53 | |
but it's not his concern. I asked him, just to be sure, | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
I said, "Can you hear my questions, Leo? | 0:27:56 | 0:27:58 | |
Can you hear me? | 0:27:59 | 0:28:00 | |
Laura? | 0:28:09 | 0:28:10 | |
"You told us the bank collapsed and the river took the both of you, | 0:28:12 | 0:28:15 | |
"but that's not what happened, is it?" | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
Diddly squat and he's not squirming, not at all. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
A lot of people find it uncomfortable, | 0:28:21 | 0:28:22 | |
not answering questions. It's not polite. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:24 | |
They'll look down at their hands and their lap or they'll keep | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
coming out with that oxymoronic, "No comment." But not him. | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
And he's not ignoring me. He's looking at me. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
He's engaged, he's interested, but it's academic, it's not about him. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:38 | |
And then what I did, I mimed a question, I mouthed it. | 0:28:40 | 0:28:44 | |
Kept the eye contact, kept the searching expression, just... | 0:28:45 | 0:28:49 | |
..mouthed it. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:50 | |
And he leant forward, just ever so slightly. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
And that gave me my answer. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
He was hearing the other ones, he must've been, | 0:28:56 | 0:28:58 | |
otherwise why lean forward for the one he couldn't hear? | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
Had to describe it for the tape, of course, what I was doing. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
I said, "What if I mimed all my questions, Leo? | 0:29:05 | 0:29:07 | |
"That wouldn't get us very far, would it?" | 0:29:07 | 0:29:10 | |
Silence. Wouldn't get us very far. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:12 | |
I hit him with the big one. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:17 | |
I said, "I've been talking to Rafe Carey's wife, Leo. To Emma. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:23 | |
"Your sister-in-law." | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
"Can you tell me about Sonia? | 0:29:28 | 0:29:30 | |
"Can you tell me about your daughter? | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
"Is that what this is about? | 0:29:36 | 0:29:38 | |
"You blamed Rafe Carey for that, didn't you? | 0:29:38 | 0:29:41 | |
"He and his wife looked after her, while you | 0:29:41 | 0:29:43 | |
and your wife were in Rome. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
"And she had meningitis and she died. | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
"And you never talked about it or let him explain or..." | 0:29:48 | 0:29:52 | |
"It was Rafe Carey's idea, is that right? | 0:29:54 | 0:29:56 | |
"To go away, by yourselves. Time to patch things up. | 0:29:57 | 0:30:01 | |
"He paid for that trip, didn't he? A present to Katrina." | 0:30:03 | 0:30:06 | |
Nothing. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:09 | |
Nothing. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:13 | |
Corinne Evans is a bold woman. A woman not easily deterred. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:20 | |
If you like to feel a woman | 0:30:22 | 0:30:23 | |
could grab a situation by the scruff of the neck, if the need arose... | 0:30:23 | 0:30:27 | |
..Corinne could. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:30 | |
If you like that type. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:34 | |
The firefighter type, the tough police officer. | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
Someone that hasn't had to look too deep into herself | 0:30:37 | 0:30:39 | |
and then needs to and then comes calling. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
If you do. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
I'll front up to anyone, but there's only so long you can say | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
so much and the other person say so little. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:49 | |
Your questions start coming back at you, | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
start preying on your own mind, instead of theirs. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:55 | |
It spooked me, after a bit. | 0:30:57 | 0:30:59 | |
It spooked me quite a lot, in fact. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:03 | |
The room was very small and just the one of us speaking. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
I had to get out of there, in the end. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:09 | |
I talked to the medic about the blood on the stone. | 0:31:10 | 0:31:13 | |
Got the diagnosis. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:17 | |
So, I can't say I can't talk. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:23 | |
He watched me go, scuttling off with my little blank cassette tape. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:32 | |
Laura. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:33 | |
Laura. | 0:31:36 | 0:31:37 | |
I saw my wife. She said she thought I was dead. | 0:31:43 | 0:31:47 | |
I suppose it's a mixed feeling. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:51 | |
You think someone's dead, then you see them | 0:31:51 | 0:31:53 | |
and they say they're not, but they will be soon. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
Maybe you think, "Now I've got to go through all that again." | 0:31:59 | 0:32:02 | |
I saw her in town. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:06 | |
It reminded me why I don't go there. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:08 | |
I went to the police station, | 0:32:16 | 0:32:18 | |
to tell the detective about the shouting. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:21 | |
She drove me back to the river bank. | 0:32:23 | 0:32:25 | |
She asked me if I'd heard other voices or just that one. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:29 | |
I said, I heard three. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:31 | |
"Frankie! Frankie! Frankie!" | 0:32:31 | 0:32:34 | |
They were shouting. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:38 | |
Three. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:39 | |
I was on the opposite bank, | 0:32:39 | 0:32:41 | |
in the trees...sorting my traps. | 0:32:41 | 0:32:45 | |
I couldn't see... | 0:32:47 | 0:32:48 | |
..but I could hear. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
There was three of them. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
One of them said the other was a junkie. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:55 | |
They were fighting. I could hear it in his voice. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:58 | |
Struggling. | 0:32:58 | 0:33:00 | |
And then, the other one, shouting, "Frankie! Frankie! Frankie!" | 0:33:01 | 0:33:07 | |
Then, the splash. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:11 | |
Then, the silence. | 0:33:12 | 0:33:14 | |
I came out of the trees. The bank was washed away where they'd been. | 0:33:17 | 0:33:21 | |
And further up... | 0:33:23 | 0:33:24 | |
..the chair, the rods. | 0:33:27 | 0:33:29 | |
The lines were still in the water. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
But there was no-one left. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:35 | |
She wanted to see my boots, the detective. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:40 | |
Asked if I'd found any money lying about. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:44 | |
Asked my shoe size. | 0:33:46 | 0:33:48 | |
Wanted to know if I owned a knife. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:49 | |
She wanted to look around in here. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:53 | |
Oh, it smells. | 0:33:55 | 0:33:57 | |
I mean, I can't smell it, but it does. | 0:33:57 | 0:33:59 | |
Smells rank. Smells...mortal. | 0:34:00 | 0:34:05 | |
Still, she sat down and then, she didn't alter. | 0:34:07 | 0:34:13 | |
She pretended she didn't notice. Didn't say anything for a while. | 0:34:14 | 0:34:18 | |
I got the sense that she was weighing up | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
whether to ask me something. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
"Do you hear things, living way out here all alone?" | 0:34:27 | 0:34:30 | |
I said, "I hear lots of things." | 0:34:32 | 0:34:34 | |
"Voices, maybe?" | 0:34:34 | 0:34:36 | |
I said, "Voices, like by the river?" She said, "No." | 0:34:37 | 0:34:42 | |
I said, "Rarely then, voices. | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
"Unless, of course, you'd count the cries of the birds | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
"and the animals as voices." | 0:34:49 | 0:34:51 | |
"I lost someone," she said. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:01 | |
"Recently. Someone dear to me." | 0:35:05 | 0:35:08 | |
This didn't seem to request a reply. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:13 | |
Silence fell. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:16 | |
Eventually, she got up to go. | 0:35:19 | 0:35:20 | |
I said, "In the normal run of things, I don't talk to the police, | 0:35:20 | 0:35:25 | |
"but I'm turning over a new leaf." | 0:35:25 | 0:35:27 | |
She said she was glad to hear it. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:30 | |
Frankie found out where I worked. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:34 | |
Maybe Katrina mentioned it. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:36 | |
I came out one lunchtime to get a sandwich | 0:35:36 | 0:35:39 | |
and he started walking along beside me. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:42 | |
He wanted more money. | 0:35:42 | 0:35:44 | |
He didn't exactly say that, but I didn't want him | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
walking along beside me. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:49 | |
I stopped to ask him what he wanted. He said, "You know what I want. | 0:35:49 | 0:35:52 | |
"The question is, what do you want?" | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
I grew up with my brother's arm around my shoulders. | 0:35:55 | 0:35:59 | |
If I'm honest, no man has ever matched him. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
That was hard for Leo. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:03 | |
I tell him over and over. I say, there was no competition, | 0:36:05 | 0:36:08 | |
that a brother's a brother, a husband's a husband, | 0:36:08 | 0:36:10 | |
that Rafe is Rafe and Leo is Leo. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:12 | |
But he could tell that, in some way, Rafe was the archetype for me, | 0:36:12 | 0:36:17 | |
for what a man should be. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:19 | |
It was well known what happened to... | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
..what happened to Katrina and me. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
Frankie must've made it his business to find out more and... | 0:36:25 | 0:36:28 | |
..the way his mind worked... | 0:36:29 | 0:36:31 | |
For a time, I thought about nothing but killing Rafe Carey. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:42 | |
I'd plan it in detail, lose myself in it. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:45 | |
I hid from other thoughts in that one and nursed it and fed it | 0:36:45 | 0:36:49 | |
and, after a while, it bust my mind. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:53 | |
If other thoughts intruded, I used it to sweep them away. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:57 | |
I woke up with that thought. | 0:36:57 | 0:36:59 | |
Wherever I went, I took it with me. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:01 | |
I slept with it, when I slept. And when I slept, I dreamt it, too. | 0:37:02 | 0:37:06 | |
Killing Rafe Carey. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:09 | |
For my birthday, Rafe got us tickets to Rome. Two tickets. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:14 | |
Leo joked that Rafe just wanted Sonia to himself. | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
I could've killed Rafe Carey with my eyes closed. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
I could've killed Rafe Carey with one hand tied behind my back. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
I could've killed him without a second thought. | 0:37:24 | 0:37:27 | |
But, of course... | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
..I couldn't. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:35 | |
Frankie saw that. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:38 | |
Frankie monetised that. | 0:37:40 | 0:37:41 | |
I bought him a mobile phone, bought him trainers, gave him money. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:46 | |
He called it Operation X. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:50 | |
He said I wasn't alone any more. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
He said we were a team. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:56 | |
I wasn't alone. | 0:37:59 | 0:38:00 | |
People come to me because they want to hear from the dead. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:04 | |
But Corinne Evans hears too much from the dead. | 0:38:06 | 0:38:10 | |
"Is it real?" she asked. "Is it Laura or is it just me?" | 0:38:10 | 0:38:15 | |
She's written everything down in her police notebook, | 0:38:15 | 0:38:18 | |
everything Laura says to her, like it was evidence. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
Pages and pages of it. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:23 | |
Pages and pages and pages. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:26 | |
Is it real? | 0:38:28 | 0:38:30 | |
Is it things she's told me that I don't remember her telling me? | 0:38:30 | 0:38:33 | |
Is it just in my head or is she speaking to me? | 0:38:33 | 0:38:35 | |
Is she speaking to me, Isabel? | 0:38:35 | 0:38:37 | |
She's gone through her e-mails, her photos. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:42 | |
She's asked Laura's mother for her diary | 0:38:42 | 0:38:44 | |
from when she was a little girl. | 0:38:44 | 0:38:47 | |
What was the name of the horse she rode? | 0:38:47 | 0:38:49 | |
Who taught her piano? How do I know these things, Isabel? | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
"Tell me what it's like for you," she said, "when they come". | 0:38:54 | 0:38:57 | |
"They're bullies," I said. "They crowd you and corner you." | 0:38:59 | 0:39:04 | |
They give you no choice. | 0:39:05 | 0:39:07 | |
We sat here. | 0:39:10 | 0:39:11 | |
We held hands across the table. I think she expected it. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
There's no other side. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:24 | |
Someone dies and they've passed over. | 0:39:25 | 0:39:27 | |
They're on the other side. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:29 | |
There's no other side. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:30 | |
The living thrash about on the surface | 0:39:32 | 0:39:34 | |
and the dead swim below, in darkness. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:36 | |
They breathe water. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:40 | |
There's no other side. | 0:39:40 | 0:39:42 | |
Corinne Evans knows that. | 0:39:43 | 0:39:45 | |
But she doesn't know she knows it. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:50 | |
A particular concern to Sergeant Evans was her friend's parents - | 0:39:50 | 0:39:54 | |
their grief in relation to hers. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:57 | |
She'd read that losing a child often results in marital break-up | 0:39:57 | 0:40:01 | |
and she didn't want that to happen to them. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:04 | |
She wanted them to have the best chance they could | 0:40:04 | 0:40:06 | |
at standing together on this. | 0:40:06 | 0:40:08 | |
She wanted them to have the full picture, | 0:40:08 | 0:40:10 | |
so they could face what they had to face. | 0:40:10 | 0:40:13 | |
She used that expression a number of times - "the full picture". | 0:40:14 | 0:40:18 | |
I asked her what she meant by it. She didn't elucidate. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:24 | |
MUSIC PLAYS | 0:40:26 | 0:40:27 | |
She had a bit of a cold before we left, but Rafe said it was nothing. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:37 | |
The flu. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:39 | |
He's a GP, so obviously when he said it was flu, that's what | 0:40:39 | 0:40:42 | |
we thought she had. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:43 | |
-CRYING: -By the time that he realised it wasn't, it was too late. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:49 | |
We were in Rome and she was here. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:51 | |
She was so far away. | 0:40:53 | 0:40:55 | |
You think of white as white, but it's not. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:01 | |
When I went to the shop and asked for white, | 0:41:01 | 0:41:03 | |
they showed me the shades on the colour chart. | 0:41:03 | 0:41:06 | |
And it was a good question. Which shade exactly? | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
I took the chart away and I was... | 0:41:09 | 0:41:11 | |
..I was going to ask Katrina, but she didn't want to paint the room. | 0:41:12 | 0:41:16 | |
It was my decision. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:19 | |
I went back out to the car park and sat in the car | 0:41:19 | 0:41:21 | |
and looked at the colour chart... | 0:41:21 | 0:41:24 | |
..and it was obvious, once I sat and thought about it. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:27 | |
The white of our hotel room in Rome. | 0:41:29 | 0:41:31 | |
That was where we'd been. That was what it had to be. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:34 | |
I did think about going back there or phoning the hotel | 0:41:36 | 0:41:38 | |
and asking them what paint they used, what white it was, | 0:41:38 | 0:41:41 | |
but their English wasn't good and my Italian was non-existent. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:44 | |
I learnt the phrase from Google Translate, though. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
"What shade of white are the walls in room seven?" | 0:41:48 | 0:41:51 | |
Quali tonalit di bianco sono le pareti de la stanza sette? | 0:41:51 | 0:41:55 | |
That was the white I wanted for her... | 0:41:55 | 0:41:58 | |
That was the white I wanted for her... | 0:42:05 | 0:42:08 | |
..for... | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
'Say Sonia.' | 0:42:12 | 0:42:13 | |
That was the white I wanted for her... | 0:42:15 | 0:42:17 | |
'Say Sonia.' | 0:42:19 | 0:42:20 | |
I paid Frankie Alder to kill Rafe Carey for... | 0:42:38 | 0:42:40 | |
'Say Sonia.' | 0:42:41 | 0:42:42 | |
I paid Frankie Alder to kill Rafe Carey for... | 0:42:46 | 0:42:49 | |
..for my daughter. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
For my daughter. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:10 | |
Not guilty. | 0:43:20 | 0:43:21 | |
Guilty. | 0:43:24 | 0:43:26 | |
Guilty, he says. | 0:43:29 | 0:43:30 | |
The rest is just quibbling. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:34 | |
Not a word of what or how or who. Just guilty. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:40 | |
Nothing else matters. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:44 | |
Not the truth. Nothing. | 0:43:44 | 0:43:46 | |
Not if it will get him Sonia back. | 0:43:48 | 0:43:50 | |
He's guilty, so it's 17 years. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:58 | |
I stood by him... | 0:44:03 | 0:44:05 | |
..but he's walked away. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:10 | |
He's guilty. | 0:44:12 | 0:44:14 | |
17 years. | 0:44:16 | 0:44:17 | |
Gone. | 0:44:20 | 0:44:22 | |
They're all gone. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:26 | |
Guilty's not a confession. Guilty's a fucking cover-up! | 0:44:41 | 0:44:44 | |
Guilty's not good enough. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:46 | |
One of those two put the knife in Rafe Carey. Which one? | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
That's a confession. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:52 | |
Which one of you did it?! | 0:44:54 | 0:44:55 | |
Guilty, what's that? It's nothing. Nothing but lies Leo Durridge told. | 0:44:55 | 0:45:00 | |
Lies, then nothing. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:02 | |
Lies, then silence - that's all Leo Durridge had to offer. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:06 | |
Then, guilty. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:10 | |
Well, fuck you, Leo, sitting in your prison cell, penitent. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:16 | |
It's not good enough. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:17 | |
Get down off your fucking cross! We need the wood! | 0:45:17 | 0:45:20 | |
This kid's up in court with a bullshit story | 0:45:22 | 0:45:24 | |
that only you can contradict. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:26 | |
My client, Frankie Alder, took money from Leo Durridge | 0:45:26 | 0:45:31 | |
and said he would kill Rafe Carey. | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
But he never had any intention of doing it. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
He conned him. | 0:45:37 | 0:45:38 | |
End of story. | 0:45:40 | 0:45:41 | |
End of story. | 0:45:43 | 0:45:44 | |
Guilty, that's all he'd say. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:47 | |
He'd spooked me with silence, but this was worse. | 0:45:47 | 0:45:49 | |
I'd ask a question, he'd answer, "Guilty." | 0:45:49 | 0:45:52 | |
"It's time you told me about Frankie Alder, Leo." | 0:45:52 | 0:45:55 | |
"Guilty." | 0:45:55 | 0:45:56 | |
"The two of you conspired to kill Rafe Carey, didn't you?" | 0:45:56 | 0:45:59 | |
"Guilty." | 0:45:59 | 0:46:00 | |
I said, "We've got a witness heard you shouting his name." | 0:46:01 | 0:46:04 | |
"You were in this together, Leo. Just admit it." | 0:46:04 | 0:46:07 | |
He went to the river bank where Durridge and Carey were fishing | 0:46:07 | 0:46:11 | |
and demanded money with menaces. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:13 | |
He had a knife. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:16 | |
Basically, Your Honour... | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
Frankie Alder is stupid. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
Stupid and wilful and unreflective. | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
He thought, if he went to the river and waved a knife at Rafe Carey, | 0:46:25 | 0:46:29 | |
he'd secure the final payment promised him by Leo Durridge | 0:46:29 | 0:46:33 | |
in relation to the proposed murder. | 0:46:33 | 0:46:34 | |
He didn't know how Carey would react. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:37 | |
He hadn't given any thought to that | 0:46:37 | 0:46:41 | |
and he ended up in the river, as a result. | 0:46:41 | 0:46:43 | |
Now...if we look at the evidence of the late Mr... | 0:46:48 | 0:46:53 | |
..the late Mr Desmond Tiernan. | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
He heard Leo Durridge shouting, "Frankie! Frankie! Frankie!" | 0:47:03 | 0:47:08 | |
Heard three shouts and a splash, in that order. | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
But if we look at the weather that day | 0:47:16 | 0:47:18 | |
and its likely effect on the acoustics at the scene... | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
..and if we take into consideration what we know about his extremely | 0:47:23 | 0:47:28 | |
poor health and his wife's comments on his state of mind... | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
..how sure can we really be of exactly what he heard? | 0:47:34 | 0:47:37 | |
Isn't it more likely that the splash came before the last of the shouts? | 0:47:40 | 0:47:45 | |
That Frankie Alder ended up alone in the river, as he claims, | 0:47:45 | 0:47:50 | |
and as Leo Durridge also confirms, | 0:47:50 | 0:47:51 | |
leaving Durridge and Carey on the bank? | 0:47:51 | 0:47:54 | |
"Why don't we go through everything that happened that day? | 0:47:54 | 0:47:56 | |
"Why don't we start again, right at the beginning?" | 0:47:56 | 0:47:58 | |
"Guilty. Guilty, guilty." | 0:47:58 | 0:48:00 | |
I said, "Break it up for us a bit, will you, Leo? It's getting samey." | 0:48:00 | 0:48:03 | |
"Guilty. I said, "If..." | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
He didn't even let me finish. "Guilty," he said. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
Looked me in the eyes. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:09 | |
"Guilty." | 0:48:10 | 0:48:11 | |
I opened my mouth again to say... "Guilty!" | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
Plus, Leo Durridge has come here from prison today, has come | 0:48:15 | 0:48:21 | |
here voluntarily from prison today, to confirm my client's story. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:25 | |
I opened my mouth again, to say... "Guilty." | 0:48:27 | 0:48:29 | |
Accusation. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:32 | |
He was accusing me. | 0:48:34 | 0:48:36 | |
Everything I did or said, "Guilty." | 0:48:36 | 0:48:38 | |
I had a lot of questions I needed to... | 0:48:39 | 0:48:42 | |
..but the words hitting me, that word hitting me. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:45 | |
Knowing it was com... | 0:48:47 | 0:48:48 | |
It started to... | 0:48:51 | 0:48:53 | |
I didn't want to put my que... | 0:48:53 | 0:48:54 | |
..because I didn't want... | 0:48:54 | 0:48:57 | |
It was like a twisted... | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
Guilty. All I was hearing was... | 0:49:00 | 0:49:02 | |
Tears welling up in me. | 0:49:06 | 0:49:07 | |
For Christ's sake, I'm stifling a sob. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:10 | |
If I opened my mouth, there is going to be... | 0:49:10 | 0:49:13 | |
..emotion. There is going to be... | 0:49:15 | 0:49:17 | |
..big emotion. There's going to be... | 0:49:20 | 0:49:22 | |
I'm a professional. I compartm... | 0:49:27 | 0:49:30 | |
Laura over here, death here. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:33 | |
Here. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:37 | |
Here. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
Here! This death now over here, Rafe. | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
There's no over... | 0:49:44 | 0:49:46 | |
..this one and Laura, none. | 0:49:47 | 0:49:49 | |
Except they're both dead and shouldn't... | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
They can't start without me and I'm not there. | 0:49:55 | 0:49:59 | |
They met at 16. | 0:50:01 | 0:50:02 | |
Inseparable, besotted. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:06 | |
Those were her words. | 0:50:06 | 0:50:08 | |
Sometimes, Laura tells her she was trying to help a fox | 0:50:08 | 0:50:11 | |
at the side of the road that had been hit by a car. | 0:50:11 | 0:50:14 | |
She says she's sorry. She had to help the fox. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:18 | |
It was crying out in distress. | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
Other times, she tells her she'll meet her there, | 0:50:21 | 0:50:24 | |
at the spot where she died, which Corinne takes to mean | 0:50:24 | 0:50:27 | |
the place itself, the road where the fox was, | 0:50:27 | 0:50:29 | |
the place where Laura pulled over. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:31 | |
I asked her, "What will you say to her, if she comes?" | 0:50:32 | 0:50:36 | |
Her mum and dad bring food, photographs of Laura, | 0:50:37 | 0:50:42 | |
old school books, swimming certificates, | 0:50:42 | 0:50:44 | |
her diary from when she was nine. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:46 | |
But she wouldn't say. | 0:50:46 | 0:50:48 | |
And we talk about her. "What's she said this time?" | 0:50:48 | 0:50:51 | |
They say, "We'll look it up. Check. We'll know if it's her." | 0:50:51 | 0:50:54 | |
I want to say, "It was over between us, can you not see?" | 0:50:54 | 0:50:57 | |
I was too much of a coward to tell her, but... | 0:50:57 | 0:51:00 | |
I can't...I can't do it. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:05 | |
I can hardly hear them, even, hardly even...see them. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:12 | |
All I can see is her. | 0:51:18 | 0:51:19 | |
I'm on the other side already. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:26 | |
If there was any actual attempt at murder, in relation to my client, | 0:51:36 | 0:51:43 | |
it was upon him by Rafe Carey... | 0:51:43 | 0:51:46 | |
..who pushed him in the river... | 0:51:46 | 0:51:48 | |
-ALL: -..despite his vulnerable protestations... | 0:51:48 | 0:51:50 | |
that he couldn't swim. | 0:51:50 | 0:51:53 | |
People are surprised when I say I won't visit. | 0:51:55 | 0:51:58 | |
And then they say, trying to rationalise it, | 0:51:58 | 0:52:00 | |
"Well, he did kill your brother." | 0:52:00 | 0:52:02 | |
I say, "Oh, did he? Has he told you that?" | 0:52:02 | 0:52:05 | |
"Well, the other man, he got off." | 0:52:05 | 0:52:07 | |
I only mean he's never told me. | 0:52:09 | 0:52:11 | |
I think he planned it so that it never happened, planned it | 0:52:12 | 0:52:16 | |
so that it couldn't. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:17 | |
It wasn't about killing Rafe. It was about Leo and Frankie. | 0:52:19 | 0:52:24 | |
A red sticker on a cash machine? | 0:52:24 | 0:52:26 | |
That anyone might've removed before Frankie even saw it? No. | 0:52:26 | 0:52:30 | |
And then walking five miles in the rain, | 0:52:30 | 0:52:32 | |
killing a man for the promise of £250? | 0:52:32 | 0:52:35 | |
Frankie Alder? | 0:52:35 | 0:52:36 | |
It meant that Frankie got money in his pocket and Rafe got to live | 0:52:40 | 0:52:44 | |
and Leo got to tell himself that he tried and failed to kill him. | 0:52:44 | 0:52:49 | |
EERIE MUSIC PLAYS | 0:52:49 | 0:52:52 | |
What's this? | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
What do you want, son? | 0:53:16 | 0:53:19 | |
Don't speak. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:21 | |
I'm only asking what you want. | 0:53:21 | 0:53:23 | |
You're standing there with that big knife | 0:53:23 | 0:53:24 | |
I want you not to speak. | 0:53:24 | 0:53:26 | |
You want money? Here. We have money. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
Shut up. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:30 | |
You stupid fuckin' junkie bastard! | 0:53:36 | 0:53:39 | |
I watched him launch himself at Frankie, | 0:53:39 | 0:53:41 | |
smacking his fat head into Frankie's face, grabbing at the knife, | 0:53:41 | 0:53:45 | |
casting everything asunder, to have his way. | 0:53:45 | 0:53:48 | |
Frankie! Frankie! | 0:53:48 | 0:53:49 | |
Everything I wanted to know and could never ask about my daughter. | 0:53:52 | 0:53:56 | |
Flying back from Rome, not knowing whether she's alive or dead. | 0:53:56 | 0:54:00 | |
Or called out for us or what she might've said. | 0:54:00 | 0:54:03 | |
My daughter, my... | 0:54:04 | 0:54:05 | |
My daughter. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:10 | |
MUSIC PLAYS | 0:54:10 | 0:54:13 | |
And I shut him up forever. | 0:55:15 | 0:55:17 | |
Forever. | 0:55:21 | 0:55:23 | |
And then the bank gave way. | 0:55:26 | 0:55:27 | |
Everything I wanted to know, but could never ask, about my daughter. | 0:55:34 | 0:55:38 | |
Flying back from Rome, not knowing whether she's alive or dead | 0:55:39 | 0:55:42 | |
or called out for us or what she might have said. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:45 | |
My daughter. My... | 0:55:46 | 0:55:48 | |
My daughter. My... | 0:55:51 | 0:55:52 | |
My... | 0:55:54 | 0:55:56 | |
My daughter - mine and Katrina's. | 0:55:57 | 0:55:59 | |
Tossed away by him... who always knows best. | 0:56:01 | 0:56:04 | |
What I wanted to know, Rafe knew. | 0:56:07 | 0:56:10 | |
And where I wanted to be, Rafe was. | 0:56:10 | 0:56:14 | |
With her. | 0:56:14 | 0:56:15 | |
With her. | 0:56:16 | 0:56:18 | |
With Sonia. | 0:56:18 | 0:56:20 | |
The river's a crazy place when you're in it. | 0:56:32 | 0:56:35 | |
It's a mad place. | 0:56:36 | 0:56:37 | |
It's not a place at all, is it? | 0:56:39 | 0:56:40 | |
Well, it's a river. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:45 |