Episode 18 Debatable

Hello and welcome to Debatable, the quiz show where talk is cheap

but celebrity chat can win a contestant money.

Today, one player must answer a series of tricky questions

to try to bag our jackpot of ?2,000.

But they're not on their own, as they'll also have

a panel of celebrity brainboxes debating their way to the answer.

Will they help or will they hinder?

That is debatable and it's time to meet them.

On today's show we have TV presenter Gethin Jones.

We have broadcaster and journalist Angela Rippon.

And broadcaster Alice Levine.

APPLAUSE

That is our panel. Let's meet today's contestant.

It is Madeleine Thomas from Northamptonshire.

How you doing? Hi. Welcome to the show.

Tell us a little bit about yourself.

I'm currently a trainee beauty therapist.

Prior to that I was a burlesque performer and teacher.

So how did you get into that?

I entered the cabaret scene, as it were, as a belly dancer and then my

skill set grew and the opportunities grew and I ended up doing burlesque.

And so where have you performed burlesque?

I've performed all over the UK but I was lucky enough to travel to

Las Vegas to perform in a couple of shows there, which was fantastic.

You're playing this very, very low key.

So you've been a dancer in Vegas? Yeah.

Just little off-the-strip shows, but still, wonderful experience.

If you won the money today, what would you do with it?

One-way ticket to Vegas.

Oh, you want to go back to Vegas?

OK, and what topics are you comfortable and confident in today?

Well, if any questions about cats come up, we're all good. Oh, yes.

As we get ready to play round one, best of luck, here we go.

This round is multiple choice.

Each question has four possible answers but only one correct answer.

Helping you, we have our panel.

Will you go with what they say or will you go your own way?

There's two questions in this round.

Each correct answer is worth ?200,

so let's see if we can get you up to 400 by the end of it all.

Ready to go? Mm-hm. OK, here is your first question.

I'm kind of liking the sound of hiccupping right now.

So you think that the hiccup and the cacha go together? Potentially.

Don't worry, we don't need to make a decision yet.

Obviously, Alice Levine studied English at University.

This is my area. A master of words.

We should solve this one for you really simply.

We don't need a debate. We don't need the debate.

OK, panel, let's see what you can do with this. Your debate starts now.

Don't all look at me. Come on.

Come on. Where did the teamwork go? Pin it all on me!

People talk about a cackle when somebody's got

a kind of a really raucous laugh, don't they? They do.

It's a difference stem, isn't it? Yeah. You know, in Welsh,

a CH is a JH.

It could be ca-JH-innating.

But then, in Welsh, cach means something else.

What does it mean? It means visiting the toilet.

That's not on the list. No, it's not.

Thank goodness the option didn't come up.

I'm between hiccupping and snoring. What are we going to go with, then?

What do we think? I vote laughing. You vote laughing.

Snoring it is for me. Snoring for you.

Well, it's kind of two to one, isn't it?

The team's going to go with laughing.

OK. What do you think, Madeleine?

I was quite unsure to start with. Now I'm even more unsure.

Well done, panel, well done. And so are we!

On this occasion, even though I have...

celebrity royalty, I think I might stick with my answer

and say hiccupping.

OK, you're going to go against the panel.

You're going to go for hiccupping. If that's OK. That is OK.

You're playing the game. You're playing the game.

For ?200, to get us up and running,

is cachinnating hiccupping?

It's laughing. Oh.

It's laughing. The word cachinnate is of Latin origin.

It means to laugh loudly.

Madeleine, don't worry. Don't worry,

there's still loads of opportunity to get this money up.

200 up for grabs for our next question. So here it comes. OK.

Anything jumping out there? The one that I'm not sure about is the YMCA.

So I think I'm going to go with YMCA.

Madeleine's first thought is YMCA. It's over to you guys.

The debate starts now.

Were you a Boy Scout? No, I was a Girl Guide. Of course you were.

Woman's Institute obviously stands out

as being quintessentially British, right?

Oh, what's that face for?

Let me just throw something into the pile here.

I've recently had to interview Barbara Taylor Bradford, the writer,

because she has written a new trilogy of books

and in it she has a character

who spends a lot of time in America and in the Second World War,

there's a whole chunk of the book devoted to

the way that the Women's Institute in their village in Britain

is digging for Britain and doing all of those things that we did

in the Second World War.

And Barbara Taylor Bradford says in the book, via this character,

that this was an idea that she picked up from America

and that the Women's Institute actually started in America.

Now, I trust her research so...

More than me?

Well, the Boy Scouts are obviously Baden Powell and the Girl Guides

came of that, so that's very British. Yeah.

YMCA, I've got a feeling, again, was founded in Britain.

Oh, I don't know.

The YMCA does stand out but maybe that's just because it's been in

lots of pop-cultural references that makes you think that

it's not truly British.

OK, I think we're definitely eliminating

Boy Scouts and Girl Guides. I agree with that.

We think they're British. It's between the other two.

I'm going to say...

..that you guys probably know, so let's go with that.

And I'm going to say...you probably know. Let's go with that.

And Madeleine's hoping that you're going to say, "I do know."

And I'm hoping that Barbara Taylor Bradford is right.

I'm going to go with the Women's Institute.

So here's where we are, Madeleine, in our first debate.

Angela ploughed her own furrow.

Got you the correct answer.

In this debate, we've now got Gethin and Alice

deferring to Angela's better judgment.

Any help at all, Madeleine?

I think I'm going to change my answer completely

and go with the panel.

So you're going to change your answer. You're going to go with

the Women's Institute was not founded in the UK.

Absolutely no pressure on you,

Angela, as we lock this in.

For ?200, was the Woman's Institute not founded in the UK?

It's the correct answer.

Oh, fantastic. What a team!

The Women's Institute was founded in 1897

in Stoney Creek, Ontario in Canada.

Well done, Madeleine. We're on ?200 at the end of round one. Great.

Hurrah!

So, how do we think our panel's doing?

Is there anyone in particular that's standing out there

who's actually got genuine knowledge?

I think Angela is standing out as very knowledgeable for me at the moment.

Let's see how they cope with pictures.

It's time now for round two.

Madeleine, round two is the picture round.

All you have to do is place three pictures in the correct order.

There are two questions in this round

and each correct answer is worth ?300,

so let's see what you and the panel can do. Here we go.

OK, I think I'm going to go for Spanish Armada,

Great Fire of London, Gunpowder Plot.

So the first thought is Spanish Armada,

Great Fire of London, then the Gunpowder Plot?

Yeah.

Over to you, panel. Your debate starts now.

Right, OK.

I think we both know, Gethin and I,

one date that we've remembered from school.

And that's your one. All the sixes.

All the sixes with the one in front. Yeah. 1666.

I know that the Spanish Armada was 1500s because, of course,

it was famously defeated by Sir Francis Drake

who played bowls on Plymouth Hoe while he watched the fleet come up.

And Plymouth is my birthplace, so there's this wonderful statue

of him in Plymouth and in Tavistock,

which is also somewhere that I've lived.

So that's the oldest. That's 1500.

Pass it over, then. All right. So we know... Then we've got Guy Fawkes.

..that's the first one. Remember, remember. Gunpowder Plot.

Let's go with the kings because I think this was James because

Guy Fawkes was catholic and he was going to blow up the King

because he had decided to forsake the Catholic religion.

Overreaction, in my opinion. Yeah, well...

Great Fire of London, we know was 1666.

And I seem to remember that King Charles was quite involved in

trying to rebuild London.

So did King Charles come before James

or did James come before Charles?

He did, didn't he? Yes, I'm pretty sure. James came later.

So our decision is, as a team, that

Spanish Armada came first,

followed by the Great Fire of London,

followed by the Gunpowder Plot.

They have confirmed your first thought.

Anything in there to change your mind, or...?

Do you think you want to go with them? I'm going to go with them,

I trust you.

OK, we're all agreed.

We are going for the Spanish Armada was defeated first,

then the Great Fire of London, then the Gunpowder Plot.

If that's the correct order, ?300 in the prize pot.

Let's see if you're right.

It's the wrong order.

It must be Gunpowder and London the other way round, then.

Let's see what the actual order is.

Yes. The Spanish Armada,

the Gunpowder Plot, the Great Fire of London.

You know nothing about kings. I know. Nothing.

Spanish Armada was defeated in 1588.

Gunpowder Plot was 1605 and the Great Fire of London,

Gethin, you're right, all the sixes, 1666. Unfortunately,

you did get that wrong but there's still 200 in the prize pot.

Loads of chances to get that money up,

so let's see if we can do any better with the second picture question.

Here it comes.

I think I'm going to go with vibraphone and then I'm going to say

phonograph and then saxophone.

OK, so we're thinking vibraphone then phonograph then saxophone.

Yes.

The debate starts now.

Well, I was just going through the orchestral instruments, actually.

I used to play in a few orchestras and the saxophone wasn't written

into a lot of large music scores, so that must have come later on.

Jazz feels contemporary, doesn't it? Yeah. It's jazz. It's the Jazz Age.

So... That's the youngest. That's the youngest. There we go.

OK, my gut is phonograph is the earliest.

Vibraphone probably close to it.

My instinct is that's even older. Yeah, mine too.

Instinct here.

Not based on any actual prior knowledge but my instinct

would say that that looks...

It does look old. Gethin?

I'm nervous with that but I'm happy to go with it.

We can't be sure but that is where I'm leaning.

Me too. Right, we've debated it

and we've decided that

the saxophone is the most modern,

the phonograph comes next and the oldest is the vibraphone.

So that is the answer of the panel.

They have gone against the only person on the panel

that has played in an orchestra.

Any use, any help?

Wow, that was a very engaging debate and I've forgotten my own name,

so...

I'm going to go with the panel.

You're agreeing with our panel. Let's lock it in.

For ?300, is that the correct order they were invented,

starting with the earliest?

It's the wrong answer.

Oh, Madeleine.

Let's see what the correct answer was.

The saxophone was first invented,

then the phonograph,

then the vibraphone.

The saxophone in the 1840s,

the phonograph in the 1870s

and the vibraphone not until the 1920s.

Really? Good musical knowledge, Gethin, well done(!)

I'm afraid that means, Madeleine,

that you didn't bank any cash in that round.

So, at the end of round two, you're still on ?200.

Don't worry, we still have ?1,000 up for grabs in our next round.

Based on that slightly shabby performance by our panel,

who is impressing you?

Well, if I can confess this,

Gethin is so handsome, I forget to listen when he speaks so...

Probably good thing, right now.

We still have the third round up for grabs.

There's ?1,000 out there.

So, let's play round three.

OK, Madeleine, in our third round

you will face questions that contain a statement

about a place, a person or a thing.

Only one of those statements is true and you must decide which one.

Two questions in this round and, because it's our final round,

there's ?500 for each correct answer

so we can still get a really good total in the prize pot today.

So best of luck. Here we go.

OK.

Do you know, I'm leaning to B.

Let's see if our panel can help you with this one.

Your debate starts now. Anybody do astronomy?

No, but there was a nightclub in Cardiff called Zeus once

that I used to go to but I don't remember Jupiter.

Did you have them hanging from the ceiling?

No. Well, I can't remember, if I'm really honest.

Astrology, I can help you with. Astrology? Does that help any?

"Saturn's moon is in Pluto's shadow and you're going to get

"a windfall in July." That sort of thing.

Right, I don't think that applies. I think the way you're playing,

there's not going to be a windfall here for a very long time.

It doesn't really apply. Jupiter's not what they call

a terrestrial planet, is it?

It's, like, full of gas and stuff and it is massive. Yeah.

But is it massive enough to be the combined size?

I think it's, like, double, but I think it has a moon.

You think it's got a moon? Yeah.

I'm sure it's got a moon.

Named after a Greek God. Now, is Jupiter Greek or Roman?

That's the thing.

Maybe if we've all heard that it's really, really large,

maybe that isn't so out there.

If that's something we know as a fact.

Oh, my goodness, but I was wrong about the saxophone.

I can't take the pressure any more.

I'm going to have to take you to Vegas myself.

Named after a Greek God. But Madeleine wants that.

She does. Come on, come on. So...

Thank you, goodnight, we're off.

What are we going to go with, then?

My gut feeling is that it is bigger. It's bigger.

Gut feeling? Larger than all other planets.

OK, we are going with, it's bigger than all the others put together.

Madeleine, we have stuck a pin in the solar system.

And our panel says that it is larger

than all the other planets in the solar system combined.

What are you thinking now?

I do remember that someone once told me that

not with all of Jupiter's moons, can you have that thing.

So I think that was his way of saying no.

What was that thing? It was an enormous cat.

An enormous cat told you that Jupiter had no moons?

No, I was once told that I wasn't allowed to adopt this enormous cat.

Ah!

Three brains against one brain.

It is three brains against one brain, Madeleine, but...

OK, I'm going to go with the panel and go A.

So, you want to go with A?

Is Jupiter larger than

all the other planets in our solar system combined?

For ?500.

A is the correct answer.

Well done.

Jupiter is two-and-a-half times bigger than all of the other planets

in the solar system combined and, just to prove that,

there is a picture of Jupiter

with none of the other planets in context.

Jupiter is encircled by roughly 62 moons.

62 moons!

Not with all of the 62 moons of Jupiter, you shall not have this cat!

But you will if you win the money.

It is named after a Roman god.

The great red spot is actually a huge storm

that has lasted over 350 years.

The spot could fit three Earths inside it.

The good news is you've added ?500 to the prize pot

and, Madeleine, you're up to ?700. Well done.

One last chance to add another 500 and get it up to 1,200. Here we go.

Now, it's funny that question should come up

because when my son was small,

he just lived and breathed sharks, just loved them.

So I know that not all sharks must swim constantly to survive.

I believe the nurse shark doesn't have to.

I know that they're old creatures.

So, I'm kind of torn between the predating dinosaurs

and having 200 bones or more in their bodies.

I'm going to go for

over 200 bones and I think we might count teeth.

OK, so that's what you're thinking. We don't need an answer yet.

Madeleine has a shark expert in the family.

Let's see if our debaters can bring anything to this.

Your debate starts now. I feel like the dinosaur fact...

I feel like there's some truth in that.

I feel like potentially they are prehistoric creatures.

But 200 million years. That seems too long. It's a long, long time.

Is it a myth that if you pull a shark backwards through the water,

they immediately drown?

It's something to do with the way their scales are on the body. Yeah,

and the way they take water in.

Isn't that something that someone says to you,

like, "Go on, pull that shark backwards, they die immediately,"

and then it just turns around and eats you whole?

Do you know where I think I got that from? Jaws.

I would definitely side with Madeleine, especially as she comes

from a household of shark experts.

So I think we should discount the constantly swim one.

I've swum with great whites in South Africa.

No, you have not! Yes, I did!

In a cage, admittedly. I was in a cage. You were in a cage? In a cage.

The shark was in a cage and Angela was just nipping at...

The sharks were outside, thank God. They are huge.

I mean, they are bigger than this desk. They are massive.

And when you think about how flexible those bodies are,

their spines must have a lot of bones in them.

Yeah, the vertebrae. The vertebrae must be amazing.

Must be. I would vote 200 bones, I think. I'm going bones. Bones?

Yes. We're going with bones.

The shark has over 200 bones in its body.

OK, our panel have gone with bones. I'm going to go with them.

You're going to go with the panel? Yeah, definitely. OK.

So, we handed it over to the panel.

They have gone for sharks having over 200 bones in their bodies.

Is it the correct answer?

It's the wrong answer! I'm so sorry, Madeleine.

The correct answer is that they predate dinosaurs

by 200 million years.

Alice, you were along the right lines there.

Sharks have cartilage instead of bones.

They predate dinosaurs by 200 million years.

Time flies, doesn't it? It didn't feel like 200 million years.

There's one we're debating!

I'm afraid you didn't get that right, but we still have

?700 to play for and we really want you to take that home.

There's only one question that stands between you and that ?700

and that is our final debate.

Madeleine, you're going to face one more question.

The question has six possible answers,

but only three of those are correct.

In order to win the money, we need you to get all three.

Now, as before, you're not going to play alone, so don't worry.

This is the final debate, though,

so you can only choose one of our celebrity panel to help you.

So, who would you like, Madeleine, to join you for our final debate?

It's such a hard choice. They've all been magnificent.

Gethin, it's got to be you.

Ah! OK, Gethin, would you please join us

to play the final debate.

So, Gethin, Madeleine has chosen you for the final debate.

I am assuming you are honoured and ready to go.

Absolutely honoured but I'm terrified as well.

It's all right if you're playing for yourself,

but it's someone else's money so I'm nervous for us both.

And because we are nice here at Debatable,

we're going to give you a choice for your final debate

from these two topics.

Well, seeing as my last film that I enjoyed was

Tinker Bell And The NeverBeast, I'm going to go for religion, I think.

Great! And I can see Gethin is delighted to help you on religion.

Fantastic, let's do that.

Let's lock it in. It's religion.

So, for ?700, with 45 seconds on the clock,

here comes today's final debate question.

Madeleine and Gethin, for the final time today, your debate starts now.

OK, identify the names that have

been used by at least one Pope. OK.

How many are you looking for, Pat?

We need three. OK.

I think it's usually the more - this is on gut -

plainer names like Stephen, Luke.

Maybe Alexander,

but I don't think it's Augustus.

Innocent has thrown me.

I think we have had a Pope Innocent, though. OK.

Now, Ethelred...

..was an ancient fellow.

15 seconds, guys, we need you to be quick.

OK, let's go Innocent, that's your gut? Yeah.

I'm veering toward Stephen, if that's helpful.

Alexander, maybe. Between Luke and Alexander.

So Innocent, Stephen, between Luke and Alexander.

So you're going for...

Time up, Madeleine.

I need three answers, please.

Sorry, I couldn't help any more, there.

OK.

I'm going to go for Innocent...

..Alexander...

..and Stephen.

Innocent, Alexander and Stephen.

If those are the three names that have been used by at least one Pope,

you will leave today with ?700.

If one of them is wrong, I'm afraid you will leave with nothing.

OK, Madeleine, here we go for ?700.

First up, you said, that Innocent has been used by at least one Pope.

Is that a correct answer?

It's good. It's the correct answer. Good stuff.

Over the years, there have been 13 Pope Innocents. Oh, wow.

You next went for Alexander.

To keep us on track for that 700,

is Alexander a name used by at least one Pope?

Yes. It's correct. Well done.

There have been eight Pope Alexanders.

You then weren't sure. Gethin did suggest Stephen.

I'm not sure. You went for Stephen.

If Stephen is a correct answer, you've won ?700.

If not, you leave with nothing, Madeleine.

Is Stephen the name used by at least one Pope?

Yes! It's the correct answer.

Congratulations, Madeleine. You've won ?700.

Well played. You've been a great player. That's it from Debatable.

There's just enough time for me to thank our fantastic panel today.

To Gethin Jones, well played, fella. To Angela Rippon and Alice Levine.

APPLAUSE

You got there in the end. Yay! I do hope you've enjoyed watching.

We will see you next time for more heated debate.

For now, it's goodbye from me.