Episode 20 Debatable

APPLAUSE

Hello and welcome to Debatable, the quiz show where talk is cheap

but celebrity chat can win a contestant money.

Today, one player must answer a series of tricky questions

to try to bag our jackpot of ?2,000.

But they're not on their own.

They will also have a panel of celebrity brainboxes

debating their way to the answer.

Will they help or will they hinder?

Well, that's debatable. So, let's meet them.

On today's show, we have retired MP and writer Ann Widdecombe,

broadcaster Dan Walker

and comedian Russell Kane.

APPLAUSE

That is our panel. Let's meet today's contestant.

It's Victoria Lee from Llanidloes.

APPLAUSE

Welcome to the show. Thank you. Tell us a bit about yourself.

I work as a barmaid during the day

but in the evening, I perform as a drag king.

A drag KING? A drag king.

Talk us through this drag king of which you speak.

He's a World War II squadron leader... Yes.

..with a massive handlebar moustache and a whole squadron.

When did you start performing as a drag king?

I've only been doing it for about eight months. It's very new.

I went to Edinburgh Fringe last year and saw loads of cabaret

because I'm quite involved in that sort of scene anyway,

and I was like, "God, this is really for me. It will be amazing."

It's actually quite empowering to dress up like a man.

People treat you differently almost immediately.

I find that when I dress up as a man.

People treat me completely differently too.

So, your general knowledge - what are you good on, what are we...?

Literature, art. Not great on pop music or any films after about 1985.

OK, well, let's see if our panel gel with you today.

Let's get this debatable show on the road, Victoria, as we play Round 1.

This round is multiple choice, Victoria.

Each question has four possible answers.

All we're looking for is the one correct answer.

Helping you find that answer is, of course, our esteemed panel.

Will you go with what they say or will you go your own way?

We're about to find out. There's two questions in this round.

Each question is worth ?200,

so let's see if we can get ?400 at the end to put into that prize pot.

So, let's get cracking. Here's your first question.

Do you know what? It's Sport, so I have got less than no idea.

But the good news is... Dan's here. Dan's here.

My heart says Wimbledon because it's British

and we like to play fair, but I'm going to see what the panel think.

OK, panel, the debate starts now. I don't think it IS Wimbledon.

I think Wimbledon was the last one to do it.

I can remember all the controversy going on

because they weren't doing it

and I never saw why they should, given that women play fewer sets.

But I can remember the controversy. You've opened up the can of worms.

Well, I have but you're paid for what you do.

I hope not - I'd be skint!

So, I... They're no less athletes than the men are, though, are they?

But I think Wimbledon were the last tournament

out of all the Grand Slams.

I have zero sport knowledge, so my way into this question would be

how equal the genders are in those respective countries.

Out of complete ignorance,

I would always go into Europe for stuff like that.

They tend to be better at stuff like that.

The problem is, with Sport, logic normally goes out the window.

That is the right way to approach it, but I think...

It can't be the US. It IS the US. I think they were forced into it.

How were they forced?

Billie Jean King refused to take part in the '70s

because she wasn't earning the same money as the men.

I'm pretty sure it's the US Open.

I wouldn't oppose you cos I haven't a clue.

OK, the panel are going to go for the US Open

as the first Grand Slam tennis tournament to go for equal pay.

Fingers crossed for you, Victoria.

OK, Victoria, Dan thinks that Billie Jean King changed things in America.

What do you say?

I had no idea but I do remember Billie Jean King very vaguely.

I can't see the Australians being that into gender equality,

so I'm going to go with Dan and say the US Open.

OK, you are going for US Open. You are agreeing with the panel.

Let's see if we can get you up and running for ?200.

The correct answer is...

It IS the US Open. Well done.

APPLAUSE Thank you, Dan.

You were right to go with the panel.

Dan, right about the US Open

and Dan also right that Wimbledon was the last tournament

to actually bring it in.

The US Open began offering equal pay in 1973,

after being pushed by Billie Jean King. There she is.

You're up and running. ?200 in the prize pot. Yay!

APPLAUSE

Here comes your next question.

Victoria, what are you thinking? Could be any of them.

I quite like Irritator, though.

Any particular reason why you're drawn to that one?

I don't know, I just like the name. You just like the name.

I would imagine that dinosaurs would be quite irritating.

LAUGHTER As simple as that.

If one was here now.

OK, let's see if our panel has any more knowledge to bring to this.

The debate starts now.

Crackinator sounds like a really good Irish comedian.

LAUGHTER Don't look at me!

He's the Crackinator - just one joke after another.

He's the Crackinator! I'm the Crackinator!

If you actually look at what they mean...

I mean, a terminator ends things,

a dominator dominates,

so I can imagine that you might have a very large, dominant dinosaur.

Like Victoria, I'm sort of strangely drawn to Irritator,

but I can give you no reason as to why.

It's got a genuine Latin root,

whereas where does Crackinator come from? What is Crackinator?

I still think it might be Crackinator but I'd be willing

to go with Ann's logic on domination

and it being part of its characteristic

of "Grrr," towering over things.

OK, so the conclusion of the panel is we think

it might be three of them.

We've got Dominator, Crackinator

but I'm strangely drawn to Irritator,

so as sort of skipper, I believe, go for Irritator.

So, our panel undecided but Dan has gone with his gut reaction.

Has that helped? Not in any way. No.

Terminator just seems too obvious, Dominator just seems too obvious.

I'm going for Irritator cos it makes me laugh.

I like to think of a dinosaur that's called an Irritator.

And for no other reason.

For no other reason than we think Irritator is a comedy dinosaur.

LAUGHTER

Is it Irritator for ?200? I doubt it.

Wow! It's the correct answer! Oh, my gosh!

APPLAUSE It is the correct answer.

The species was actually classified in 1996.

It was classified from a fossil that a dealer had modified

using car body filler.

By the time the palaeontologist cleaned it off and classified it,

the whole ordeal had become "irritating". Is that really why...?

That's why they called it Irritator.

Well done. We have stumbled across the correct answer.

It's another ?200 in the bank

and it means that the prize pot at the end of Round 1, ?400!

Yes! Well done. Thank you. APPLAUSE

Well played. Well, let's see how they cope with pictures.

It is time for Round 2.

OK, Victoria, Round 2 is the picture round.

All you have to do is place three pictures in the correct order.

Each correct answer is worth ?300.

There are two questions in this round. Here we go.

I would go, I think, with...

..National Lottery,

Dolly the sheep and then Diana.

I think. You think. I think.

Don't worry. Not certain.

You don't need to be certain

because our panel will no doubt bring certainty to the matter.

Your debate starts now.

I think the Diana interview might be '94,

the lottery about '93.

Dolly the sheep I'm sure was about '95, '96.

See, most of my memories are based around sporting events

and I'm sure that was the summer of Euro '96.

The England manager at the time, Terry Venables,

there was quite a big ho-hum.

He was getting asked in interviews about Dolly the sheep

and he was trying to concentrate on the football.

He was trying to clone Gary Lineker at the time. Yeah!

I think the lottery is about 1992.

I think Diana is about '94 and I think this is '95 or '96.

So, we're going to stick

with the order we've got them in on the table.

Which actually coincides with Victoria's assessment. Yes.

OK, so, in summary,

we are going for National Lottery as the earliest one,

followed by the Diana interview with Martin Bashir,

and right at the end, we think '95, '96 for Dolly the sheep.

So, our panel going along with your first thought there, Victoria.

Now I've had a think about it, I'm going to swap the first two.

I'm going to swap Diana with the National Lottery,

purely based on Diana, her hair.

That haircut is early '90s, I would say.

Oh! And that suit. Look at it.

Good knowledge. Just on the haircut.

Do we think that Dolly the sheep's haircut is...

more or less current than Diana's in that picture? That's probably '70s.

I live in a Welsh farming community.

Dolly hasn't had a haircut.

Dolly hasn't had a haircut. No.

OK. I'm going to go Diana, lottery, Dolly.

You're going Diana, the earliest, then the lottery,

then Dolly the sheep cloned. Yeah. OK, here we go.

So, you're going against the panel. I am.

For ?300, is Diana being interviewed by Martin Bashir

followed by the National Lottery,

then Dolly the sheep cloned, the correct chronological order?

Oh! AUDIENCE GROANS

The wrong order. Let's see the right order, Victoria.

Oh, dagnabbit! The panel were right.

The National Lottery, Diana and then Dolly the sheep.

I should have listened to the panel.

National Lottery was launched in 1994,

Diana interviewed by Martin Bashir in '95,

and you were right, Dan, Dolly the sheep, '96,

the same year as the Euros.

Those football tournaments help sometimes, don't they?

I would never have put those together. That's really good work!

Unfortunately, you did get that question wrong

but you still have ?400 in your prize pot.

We've got lots of opportunity to get that up,

so here's your next question. Right.

Can we work it out from the haircuts? Probably, ooh.

That's probably quite an old picture of Maggie Smith.

I would go Helen Mirren, Judi Dench, Maggie Smith.

Your first thought, Helen Mirren, Judi Dench, Maggie Smith.

Panel, the debate starts now.

We made some disapproving noises on that one.

I'm pretty certain Maggie Smith came first.

Wouldn't you say that Judi Dench was the bigger in reputation actress

up until...? No, Maggie Smith.

I can remember her playing at the National Theatre in the '60s,

in the mid '60s, playing with people like Olivier,

playing Desdemona, playing big Shakespearean parts.

I think she came first.

We can safely put Mirren at the most recent though.

There was definitely some hoo-ha about one of them

being in the game a long time and not being made a dame

and I'm sure that was Helen Mirren. I'll put Helen here then.

Put Helen at that end.

Helen Mirren we think is the most recent,

so then it's a toss-up between... I would back Maggie Smith.

I know Russell wants Judi Dench. You have to decide.

Ooh, I do like the responsibility. Right, I'm going to go...

We're going to go in a 4-4-2 formation.

We'll have Judi just behind Maggie,

with Helen supporting on the left wing. A defender.

We're going to go Judi Dench as the first one,

followed by Maggie Smith, and then, eventually, Helen Mirren.

The panel have decided Judi Dench, Maggie Smith and Helen Mirren.

You, of course, went for Maggie Smith,

Judi Dench and then Helen Mirren.

What do we think now?

Even though the panel have been right and I've been wrong before,

Ann just seemed so very sure about her order,

which was the same as mine.

So I'm going to stick with what I said originally.

So, you're going against the panel. Again!

You are going with Ann's suggestion that Maggie Smith was the first,

then Judi Dench, then Helen Mirren.

OK, for ?300, is this the correct order?

Oh! Wrong order.

Let's have a little look here at the correct order.

Oh! I'm so sorry, guys.

It was Judi Dench then Maggie Smith then Helen Mirren.

Judi Dench got hers in 1988,

Maggie Smith, 1990,

and Helen Mirren, she didn't get hers until 2003.

Dame Maggie Smith and Dame Judi Dench have been friends

for over half a century

and are just 19 days apart in age. Ah.

Victoria, I'm sorry, but you didn't manage to bank anything.

I kind of bombed, bombed that round. Your prize pot is still ?400.

APPLAUSE

Now, so far, our panel have 100% record.

That's why they're looking slightly pleased with themselves.

As they should.

But you can only choose one of them to play the final debate with.

Based on their 100% record,

who would you like to take you into that debate currently?

Russell. Oh, Russell, straightaway.

OK, there's still another ?1,000 up for grabs, as we play Round 3.

OK, Victoria, in this round, you'll face questions

that contain three statements about a person, a place or a thing,

but only one of those statements is true. You must decide which one.

There are two questions again in this round

but because it's our final round, we can get the prize pot up,

as each of those correct answers will be worth ?500.

So, best of luck. Here we go. Thank you.

Ooh.

I, at the moment, would say, "Only ever performed in North America."

Ann is nodding. Let's head over. The debate starts now.

Ooh, shall we do them in order? First name not Elvis.

I thought he WAS an Elvis, wasn't he? Can you ever recall hearing...?

I mean, like Cliff was Harry Webb.

Can you ever recall hearing anything like that about Elvis.

I'm pretty sure his first name's Elvis.

He had, like, 20 UK number ones, didn't he?

But I don't know whether he had some

before he had a number one in the UK.

I think the last is the most promising. I'm almost...

I can't think of a single image of him performing anywhere else. No.

Maybe Canada. He certainly never came here.

It's phrased as North America, so maybe he went to Canada.

There was a massive clamour for him to come to Europe

and to play in England, but I don't think he ever did.

Unless Ann Widdecombe went to see Elvis somewhere.

Er, no, because I would probably have had to have gone to America

to do so because he never came here. I DO know that.

I was a teenager at the height of Elvis mania

and he certainly never came here.

Happy to go with that? Yes. Yeah. OK.

Um, we've got a unified panel and we all believe

that the fact you are seeking

is the one that Elvis Presley only ever played in North America.

So, Victoria, that's what our panel think. Any sense been talked there?

I totally agree with the panel. I'm going for C.

So, you think that Elvis only ever performed in North America.

For ?500, the correct statement is...

Yes! He did.

APPLAUSE

He did. He only ever performed in North America,

partly because his manager, Colonel Parker,

was actually Dutch and an illegal immigrant into the US,

so if he left, he wouldn't get back.

Elvis was actually born Elvis Aaron Presley.

Heartbreak Hotel was his first UK hit single

and it peaked at number two in 1956.

He also only performed five shows ever outside of America

and those five shows were in... Canada.

Canada. That was it. Good knowledge.

Well done. So, we've got ?500 added to the prize pot.

That brings you a total of ?900.

APPLAUSE

Still another ?500 to play for.

Let's get this up to ?1,400. We're on a roll. Here we go.

Not A. Pretty sure it's only got two moons. They're quite small moons.

My feeling is C but then I have a feeling it might not be C

because C was the answer last time. LAUGHTER

But... Mercury... Good scientific working out.

Mercury's the smallest planet in the solar system. It's weeny.

So, my feeling is C,

but I'm interested in what the panel has to say, obviously.

OK, panel, over to you.

It's funny, cos we were quite interested

in what Victoria had to say. Can you come and sit here?

Um, are we counting Pluto as a planet or not?

Cos it's been a planet and not a planet

about five times in the last ten years. It's terribly specific there.

It says smallest by diameter not mass - by diameter.

Yeah, well, Mercury's like a tiny dot that goes round the sun.

It's a little speck. So then it cannot be Mars. No, correct.

So, we can discount the top one. We can get rid of one.

My knowledge of Mars doesn't really extend much beyond Total Recall

with Arnold Schwarzenegger, so...

Yes, but when he looks up... I'm trying to think of the moons.

Yeah, there's two, isn't there? Yeah.

LAUGHTER

Unless anybody thinks that there's three moons,

then it's got to be that one, doesn't it?

I have a Mars two moon memory as well.

I have a very vague two moon memory but it's vague.

Where does your two moon memory...?

Is it science or is this Total Recall as well?

You know when he's burning up outside and he looks up?

Yeah, that's the same scene, yeah.

We're not sure that it's the first in Holst's Planets suite,

but it seems... If you eliminate the other two,

then that becomes the answer.

Obviously, musically, you'd think you would start from Mercury

and sing your way out to Pluto. That's what I would do.

With a big chorus about Earth in the middle, obviously.

But if it's not the other two, it has to be Holst.

Ann, you always worry me with the hands on the head.

Yeah, I worry myself with my hands on my head.

It means I'm plagued by doubt. Speak to me about your concerns.

I'm not concerned about the first one because you've rightly said

that Mercury's a speck, so I'm not concerned about the first one.

So, it's just the moony thing? It's the moony thing.

But I'm sure I was told Earth one, Mars two. I'm sure it's two.

OK, we've got Widdecombe on board, so... I think you have, yeah.

One, two, three, we are fully supporting your Holst idea.

That's what we're going to go for.

OK, with absolutely no musical knowledge whatsoever,

our panel has decided

that is the first planet in Holst's The Planets suite.

That was my first instinct.

I'm...going with my first instinct

and the backing of the panel.

OK, we're going with the panel to try to get you up to ?1,400.

Let's find out which statement is true.

Yes! It is! APPLAUSE

It is the first planet in Holst's The Planets suite.

Now Pluto is a dwarf planet,

Mercury is the smallest planet by diameter,

with Mars the second smallest.

Mars does have two moons - Phobos and Deimos.

Mars, The Bringer Of War, is the first piece out of seven

in Gustav Holst's The Planets suite.

And that means that ?500 has been added to your prize pot

and we're up to ?1,400. Whoo!

APPLAUSE

Well done. Thank you. OK, Victoria, ?1,400.

If we manage to walk away with that today,

what are you going to spend it on?

Well, my daughter's getting married next year,

so I'm going to put it towards her having a cracking wedding. Ah.

Very good, very good.

There's just one question that stands between you and that ?1,400

and that is today's final debate.

Now, Victoria, you will face only one question in the final debate.

That question will have six possible answers

and only three are correct.

We need you to give me all three correct answers

in order to walk away with the cash.

As before you're not going to be playing alone,

but as this is the final debate,

we're going to make life a bit more tricky,

as you can only access one celebrity in order to help you.

You and your celebrity will have 45 seconds to debate the question.

So, I can't believe I'm saying this,

our panel have had 100% record today.

Come on! What a panel, eh?! Absolutely every one right.

APPLAUSE

So, out of our panel,

who would you like to join you for the final debate?

I'm going to go with Russell cos he's been quite the dark horse,

I think. Really? He's got quite an expansive knowledge base.

It's just Fake Bake, that's all it is.

OK, Russell, can you join us as we play the final debate. Oh!

VICTORIA LAUGHS APPLAUSE

OK, Russell, Victoria has put her faith in you for the final debate.

Has she done the right thing? I'm going to go for it.

I'm going to be a marine of the moolah

and steam in and take the cash. I'm going to do my best.

OK, Victoria, because it is the final debate,

we're going to give you a choice.

We're going to give you two categories to choose from,

so here they are.

Hmm...

I don't think I'll be any good on bridges and clocks and sculptures.

No, me neither.

But if types of vole or cat or anything come up,

we're in with a fighting chance based on the word roots. Yeah.

Do you watch a few nature programmes?

I do watch a few nature programmes. My Latin is kind of OK.

We could come a cropper here but I think...

Yeah, Landmarks, I'm completely not confident about. No.

So... This is a landmark performance of which I've given a few.

LAUGHTER Just saying.

Or landmarks based in the town that I live.

I'd ace it. But that's unlikely, so Nature? Nature.

All right, Victoria, you have chosen Nature for ?1,400.

45 seconds on the clock.

Best of luck to you both.

Here is today's final debate question.

So, Victoria and Russell, for the final time today,

your 45 seconds starts now.

One question - is the Siberian tiger extinct? Gosh, I don't know.

And where's that likely to crop up?

That would be Russia, surely.

Japan - there's a lot of them

in Japanese art but I'm not sure.

Sri Lanka... Hang on, Japan's an island,

so the tigers would have had to get across there.

Mind you, Indonesia's... I think Indonesia...

Bangladesh has got tigers, hasn't it? Yep.

Because it's India

and there's tigers in India.

Bangladesh, Malaysia...

Sri Lanka... 15 seconds. Sri Lanka, tigers...

They don't have... It could be... I don't think Afghanistan.

I think Bangladesh, Indonesia and then possibly Malaysia or...

Sri Lanka's a separate island, remember that. Yeah.

KLAXON OK, Victoria,

I need three answers, please.

Bangladesh,

Indonesia,

Malaysia.

Victoria, you went Bangladesh, Indonesia and Malaysia.

If those are the three countries that have tigers in the wild,

you'll leave with ?1,400.

I'm afraid if they're not all correct, you'll leave with nothing.

Here we go. First up, you said Bangladesh.

Is Bangladesh a country that has tigers in the wild?

It is. Well done. Up and running. Oh!

APPLAUSE

Next, you said Indonesia. Does Indonesia have tigers in the wild?

It does! Phew!

Two for two. Just one more and you bag that ?1,400. Oh!

But I'm afraid if Malaysia is the wrong answer

then you leave with nothing.

You did mention Sri Lanka at one point. Oh, shush!

Plumped for Malaysia.

Does Malaysia, for ?1,400, have tigers in the wild?

It does!

LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

Yes! You're coming to the wedding!

I knew it couldn't be the islands. Well done!

Well played! Thank you so much! Congratulations, well done.

Oh, my God, that was horrible! Thank you! The wedding is on!

I knew a tiger couldn't have flown across to Sri Lanka or Japan.

You just couldn't imagine it, could you, floating across?

Well played, Russell. Well done, Victoria. You leave with ?1,400.

That is it for Debatable.

There's just enough time for me to thank our fantastic panel.

To Russell Kane, Ann Widdecombe and Dan Walker.

APPLAUSE

I hope you've enjoyed watching.

We will see you next time for more heated debates.

For now, it's goodbye from me.

APPLAUSE