Episode 2 Dragons' Den

'These are the Dragons.

'Five of Britain's wealthiest and most enterprising business leaders.

'Over the coming weeks, they'll make or break the dreams of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.'

It's taken you 14 years to send an email. Doesn't that worry you?

I wouldn't for one second consider investing in you.

Let me have a look at the blingy one cos I'm a blingy person.

It's not very often that I see a business model that I want to fail.

I'm not totally convinced on the actual business. What I am absolutely convinced on

is the people standing in front of me.

'The multi-millionaire investors have each built up their fortunes from scratch.

'Hotel and health-club owner Duncan Bannatyne.

'Leisure industry expert Deborah Meaden.

'Retail magnate Theo Paphitis.

'Telecoms giant Peter Jones.

'And new Dragon Hilary Devey, who made her millions in the haulage industry.

'The Dragons have the credentials, the contacts, the commitment and the cash ready to invest.

'But only in the right business.

'Will any of these hopeful entrepreneurs walk away with their money?'

Welcome to the Dragons' Den.

Once again, the doors are open for business

and entrepreneurs are ready to face the five multi-millionaires

hoping to secure a much-needed cash injection for their venture.

All the investors are keen to back the best ideas that come before them

but so far our new Dragon, Hilary Devey, has proven she's tough to impress.

Will she seal the deal on her first investment tonight?

Londoners Krissy Sims and Kerry O'Brien,

AKA DJ Trickles and Lady MC, are first into the den

with a concept they believe will capture the Dragons' imagination. How will they fare?

Hi, I'm Krissy and this is Kerry.

We're here to seek an investment of £150,000

for a 20 percent stake in our company.

The British DJ and MC Academy is a youth arts organisation working with young people and adults,

delivering workshops and accredited courses in the arts, such as DJing,

lyrical writing and music production.

Behind us is the base station.

It's fully equipped and designed with the latest DJ equipment inside it.

We found lots of young people didn't find it cool to go to youth clubs.

So we designed the base station so we could go absolutely anywhere and teach.

So we have three segments to this business.

The first idea is called the Rapping Project.

There are PR and experiential marketing companies

crying out for new ideas to promote their clients' products. Our second idea is already up and running.

Our clients have been booking us for corporate events and festivals.

And our third and final strand is our corporate team-building experience.

And we're hoping you agree that this would be useful for any organisation out there.

-Thanks for you time.

-Thank you. We're going to offer you a master class.

-Right, I'm in.

'A passionate pitch from the young London duo

'who, in return for a 20 percent stake,

'need £150,000 to expand their music training academy.'

These are all brand new tracks that have been created by our artists.

We're going to play the first track.

-Testing, one, two, three.

-Brilliant. OK.

OK, are we going to do a little bit of rap, then?

# I said a hip hop, the hippie, the hippie, to the hip hip hop you don't stop the rock it

# To the bang bang boogie, say up to the boogie, to the rhythm of the boogie, the beat

'Having had the full base station experience...'

THEY CLAP

'..Peter Jones is ready to return to business.'

Well done, well done. That was brilliant.

Kerry and Krissy, I just want to separate

and get down to the serious nature of whether this actually is a business.

-Where does the income actually come from?

-We're service providers

-so we run accredited courses, workshops, events.

-What do you charge for this?

For an event or a festival, the cost is £1,500 a day.

Our profits are £500, and that's for one booking.

-Who's your biggest customer?

-Nike.

-And so what's the deal with them?

Give us an example of one event you've done for them, the cost.

-We're doing Wembley Stadium.

-What do they pay for that?

-£1,500.

And we'll provide them with the music, a DJ,

and we give people an experience. They can either listen to the music or get involved.

'Confident answers from the assured entrepreneurs. Now Theo Paphitis wants to drill down

'into the details of their company's background.'

-Right, ladies, who owns the business?

-We do.

And you've filed how many years' accounts?

-We're on our fourth year now.

-Your fourth year? Go through the bottom line in those three years.

We made a loss of £50,000 on the first year.

-Second year was...

-We broke even.

-Even, yeah. Third year?

-Our net profit was £40,000.

-You made a profit?

-£40,000.

-Excellent.

-And year four, you're forecasting...

-£440,000, and that's just the youth sector and the DJ academy.

-How many advanced bookings have you got?

-We've got many.

-Loads.

-Many.

-Can you give me a value?

-An approximate figure, 25 grand.

-OK. Thank you.

I like this. I really like it. Cos I actually sponsor a music project getting kids off the streets.

My problem is, the longevity of the concept.

Because this will soon be emulated.

People can copy ideas but they can't copy what we have. They can't copy the amount of work we've put in.

They can't copy our company or the passion that we've got

-and the amount of lives that we've changed.

-You're a good sales person.

I'm just passionate and genuine and I talk from my heart. We've put in three years.

We've been through the mills and back and people can copy the ideas, but they can't copy what we are.

'Kerry and Krissy are holding their own in the den and handling the Dragons with some aplomb.

'Duncan Bannatyne is intrigued.'

Kerry, Krissy, tell me your background. Where have you come from?

I started off writing songs when I was quite young,

using a lot of the challenges I was faced with as a child

-to express myself.

-Did you make any money out of selling those?

-Yeah, I've been quite successful.

I was actually the first female MC in jungle music.

Then Krissy mentioned she wanted to set up a DJ school and I really want to help kids through music.

That's how we formed our partnership.

I finished school with not very many GCSEs

so I bought my set of turntables when I was 16

and I just spent all my time mastering the arts of DJing.

When I was 21, I bought a recording studio.

I managed to sell it with a 20 grand profit, which was quite good.

-And the rest is history. We've been changing lives...

-That's great.

-You're going back into the pitch again.

-Sorry.

No, that's great. I think you're both inspirational.

'An engaging response and the Dragons are certainly captivated.

'Deborah Meaden is next to interrogate the young businesswomen.'

-Hi, I'm Deborah.

-Hi.

-Hi. You've made a bit of profit, which is great. Year three, bit of profit.

You're now forecasting huge profits.

So I'd like to understand the mechanisms from turnover to profit.

OK. On our forecast, we've established that we're going to have four vehicles

to run 730 events in one year.

-OK. Talk me through to the profit.

-OK. The actual net profits

-will be £490,000.

-No, no, that's a number.

You're going to take me... So you're running 730 events,

you've got four vehicles, that many people working for you and that drops through to £490,000.

Would you mind if I take this?

OK, it really is quite a simple process.

We get our tutor, we brief them,

they get the address, they go there, they deliver the work.

No, sorry, I'm not getting... We need to get to what I'm asking,

which is what are the mechanics of the business?

You've got four vehicles, you're doing 730 events, how many people in your office?

We've got five members of staff at the moment and we have 40 tutors.

How many will you have to produce £490,000 of profit?

-Do you want to answer?

-Do you want to...?

-Sure. OK.

Every sector of our business,

we've got these amazing ideas to create something bigger and better.

-And we're really going to make it happen. We're so passionate.

-Krissy. Shh.

-SHE LAUGHS

-I think we get your passion.

But what we're saying is, the youth sector isn't going to make us millions,

but that's what we're here for. So we want to tap into this corporate sector

and then we can make all these profits to put back into what we love.

'Passion and ardour perhaps, but it's profit and margin the Dragons want to hear about.

'Has Peter Jones spotted a reason to invest?'

Krissy, Kerry, I actually see this as a great concept for a social enterprise.

Do you know what? I think there lies the mistake.

You've changed it from what is great and why people will back you

into something, as an investor, I'm conflicted,

because when I invest in you, I won't want to have any money back.

I think it's fantastic what you do but it's not an investment, and for that reason, I'm out.

'The young entrepreneurs' hopes are dashed as Peter Jones walks away from the deal.

'But there are still four Dragons left.

'Will Theo Paphitis agree with his rival's concerns?'

Kerry, Chris, I'm blown over by your passion.

And do you know what? I don't have a problem with the social enterprise issue.

You go out there, you make profits, and if you want to give those profits back, good for you.

You've got to make money first before you can give it away. That's my great belief in life.

But it is an owner-operator business.

I don't think this is an investor business.

-I can't invest in you. But I wish I could.

-Oh. Thank you.

-I'm out.

-Well, you're both fantastic, inspiring girls.

If you came along and asked for, say, £50,000,

you'd probably get someone taking a punt.

But £150,000 is too much to invest in that.

So for that reason I have to say, I'm sorry, but I'm out.

-OK. Thank you.

-Krissy, Kerry, when I tested you on the numbers,

I'm afraid it wasn't as good as I was expecting from the pitch.

When you stand in front of five investors and say,

"We're going to go from a £40,000 profit

"to a half a million pound profit,"

all that investor really wants to hear is how.

And I know you're going to give me more reasons and words why, but you've had your moment.

I'm out.

'Three more Dragons walk away from the deal

'and Kerry and Krissy's time in the den looks like it's coming to an end.

'But Hilary Devey does have some experience in this sector.'

I wholly emphasise with where you're going, getting kids off the streets,

because I've got a son that went down the same route.

And it's probably music that saved him in the end.

You've come on here asking for 150K.

So you've got to go off with either 150K or nothing.

-You could invest half of that, maybe.

-You can't do that. You've got to get the full investment.

-Oh, really?

Erm...

With most businesses, you do find you get economies of scale.

I can't see where you're going to find those economies of scale in this business.

Sure.

-Unfortunately, I've got to say I'm out.

-OK. Thank you.

-I'm sorry.

'Kerry and Krissy certainly charmed the Dragons

'but heads rule hearts in this den. They leave with nothing.'

-That was a shame. Nice girls.

-Whether it's this or whatever it is, they'll make it.

I'm actually quite happy.

They gave us great feedback, they felt our passion, they felt everything that we are.

And we're going to make everything we said happen. It just might take us a little bit longer.

'Entrepreneurs entering the den have one thing in common.

'They all believe their idea is one that will impress the Dragons.

'Fish and chip shop owner John McMonagle from Glasgow needed a £125,000 investment

'in his prototype invention.'

I'm sure everybody here has been driving up the road when they're tired.

My product is an inflatable car bed.

PUMP WHIRRS

You've got to be joking.

John, I've done some really silly things in the den.

Am I likely to get in a car with an inflatable bed?

I would like to think very likely.

-Come on, then.

-HE LAUGHS

'Despite his initial enthusiasm...'

Bye, Theo!

'..Theo Paphitis had an immediate concern.'

It's going down. No, don't pump it up any more! That's fine.

John, where do I lie down, mate?

You couldn't get Jonesy in it. Jonesy.

'Never one to shy away from a challenge, Peter Jones was next to try John's invention.'

-It's a little bit...

-LAUGHTER

-Oh!

-HORN BEEPS

THEY LAUGH

-You've got to be kidding.

-Can you just move over?

-You have that side.

-All right. I actually can't move.

THEY LAUGH

'All entrepreneurs should note, however jovial the atmosphere in the den,

'it's all about the bottom line for the Dragons.'

I don't think you're ever going to sell them in vast numbers,

and this sort of product needs to be sold in vast numbers to make any money on it.

-Keep on innovating.

-Thank you.

-I'm out.

-PETER GROANS

-Push!

Come on, we've got to go to work.

-Well?

-John!

-Hi.

-I'm not going to laugh at you.

If you could actually work something that was more eloquent than that,

you might have half a chance. That's not it. I'm out.

One way to catch the eye of the Dragons and that of the modern consumer is with a strong brand.

That's more than just a logo. It's a whole visual identity.

And it's what London-based friends Christian Hartmann, Tom Callard and Martin McLaughlin believe they have.

Will the Dragons agree?

Hello, guys. My name's Christian, this is Tom and this is Martin.

We are here today to ask for £70,000 for 35 percent in our company, Love Da Pop.

Love Da Pop makes, packs and sells the world's best popcorn. Doesn't that sound good?

Erm, we have developed two different sized bags

and we've got five wonderful flavours.

Salt and pepper, popcorn in the nude,

we've got caramel, white chocolate, and our latest invention, whoopsie daisy. It came about from a mistake.

We have operated for ten months. We've turned over £31,000 so far.

We're not the biggest of companies yet but that's why we're here.

In the ten months we've been doing this, we've found there really is a market for this popcorn.

So weirdly, while the events we serve at are kind of cool, new events,

the snacks served at them are stuck in the eighties. But that's events.

We feel quite confident there. We need your help to move into retail.

We hope to change Love Da Pop and transform an absolute passion of ours

into a profitable company of the future.

If you'd like to now have a sample of our bags of Love Da Pop,

Christian will now bring over some bags to you.

'A characterful pitch from popcorn connoisseurs Martin McLaughlin,

'Tom Callard and Christian Hartmann.

'In return for a 35 percent stake,

'they want £70,000 to turn their take on the popular cinema snack

'into a mainstream brand.'

-This tastes fantastic.

-Thank you.

'Marketing expert Deborah Meaden wants clarification on what they've achieved so far.'

-Hi, I'm Deborah.

-Hello.

-So when you talk about events,

how many events have you attended to generate your £31,000 of turnover?

We have done 24 corporate events to date

and we also have a deal with a company called Secret Cinema for this whole year.

Secret Cinema do really, really cool, big film events.

OK. So, erm, this is your plan on packaging?

The level that we operate at the moment, this is the packaging that we use.

We quite like the handmade feel of it. We think it feels quite authentic and genuine.

So, really, your unique selling point is that you're taking a traditional product,

you're trying to add a twist by I think, possibly, yourselves being quite quirky.

-Oh, really?

-Yep. OK, do you think that's enough of a...

I think the focus, really, has to be taste

because it's not a scalable business model for us to be the face of it

beyond it having a story that we started it, like Ben & Jerry's or something.

All other popcorn, we think, apart from maybe one other, is popped with hot air.

It's slightly healthier, but the popcorn tastes cardboardy.

So we use vegetable oil instead of hot air.

The point is that we focus on taste exclusively with the best ingredients

cos we think people are willing to pay more for that.

'Firm belief in their product, perhaps, but how does that translate into profit?

'Theo Paphitis is next to cross-examine the trio.'

Guys, the popcorn's good.

-ALL: Thank you.

-But tell me what your business plan is.

How are you going to make money out of this?

There's a three-step plan. Number one, we do the events. We become THE events popcorn.

It helps us show off the brand and get exposure.

That will allow us to move into cafes, bars,

-places where at the moment there's no...

-This is all great theory. Give me some numbers.

Numbers. The big bags will sell in retail at £2.40

and our costs on that will be 25 pence.

-What, just the raw materials?

-Raw materials and labour.

-Packaging?

-Packaging, as well.

-Delivery?

-Erm...

There'd be delivery on top of that.

-What, you're going to charge delivery or include it in your cost?

-We charge delivery on top of that.

You think the retailer will let you charge him to deliver it?

-I mean, it is something we could back into the bags if we have to.

-You've never thought about it?

Have you spoken to retailers and said, "I'll sell you my product and charge you to deliver it"?

It's one of the key problems. You need great big vans to deliver this stuff.

And if you're just delivering 20, 30 bags to a cafe, you're going to make 20, 30 quid,

it's going to cost you that in distribution costs. You haven't thought it through.

'The fledgling entrepreneurs get a lesson in business from retail Dragon Theo Paphitis.

'And Duncan Bannatyne does not look impressed.'

You're nice guys, but I really think it's time for a reality check.

For you to think that you're going to take over the world in popcorn is ridiculous.

I mean, the bags, it's just a stripy bag. It's not a business. You're not going to take over the world.

You're not the new Ben & Jerry. You're not anywhere near it.

Erm, yeah, we realise that it's a tiny, tiny business at the moment.

It's barely a business. It's a passion.

And we've got a good product. I think we've got a good brand.

Come on, this is painful. You have a fairly good product, but it's not the best popcorn.

It's not the greatest product. It's not fantastic and it's not bagged properly.

I'll stop wasting time. I'm out.

'The trio's initial confidence takes a hit

'as Duncan Bannatyne crushes their dreams of investment.

'Will Hilary Devey find any financial comfort in the company's figures?'

I'm Hilary. Hi. So when you did your business plan,

-how were your projections derived?

-We based it on a lot of what we have done to date.

So we have certain contracts for certain events. We're also in negotiations with Nomad.

They have 100 events in the next year, a target audience of 70,000.

Then for year three, it was a bit of an estimate in terms of how we would get it into retail.

I mean, to me, it's not coming over as a business model, a business plan for the future.

It's coming over as cottage industry,

that you guys obviously like popcorn so you thought, "Well, we'll make it and we'll sell it."

That, to me, is not investable and not sustainable.

-I'm out.

-Thank you.

I... I think the amount of space it takes to pre-bag popcorn

compared to other much higher margin stuff is an issue

and that become a bigger issue when you're trying to sell into cafes

where space is absolutely at a premium.

So I think there's some structural issues.

What I do think is do it, make a bit of money, don't make this your lifetime living.

Cos I suspect you've got more than this about you. I'm out.

'Two more investors walk away and Martin, Tom and Christian look to be heading back down the stairs

'without the £70,000 they badly need.

'Now just two Dragons remain.'

Guys, I've just noticed in your little pack you gave me with the clip,

I notice that I've got a lottery ticket. It's not some subliminal message

to make me think, "I've got more chance of making money with this ticket than with your business"?

That's just little touches. We like to put little sentiments that we offer with bags.

-You like to give things away that cost money.

-Not as extreme as the lottery tickets

but it can be little jokes or little sentiments like that.

Can I ask a bit of background about you? Where have you come from and how did you get to this point?

We all met through work. We work in advertising.

We're in the same agency in London.

-Who do you work for?

-Saatchi & Saatchi.

-OK.

Does the advertising agency you work for now know that you're doing this?

-Yeah, they love it.

-They're supportive.

-That's been nice.

It's building our own brand, so it's good training.

So where do you take that brand further? For instance, could you do corn snacks?

-Could you do fizzy pop?

-Yeah. There's the retro vibe about it,

so we were considering buying a candyfloss machine, cos it fits in with that whole feeling.

But further down the line. We wanted to establish ourselves as popcorn first.

-Love Da Drink, Love Da Pop, Love Da Candy.

-Yeah.

OK. Thank you.

'Inexperienced entrepreneurs they may be,

'but the trio have revealed expertise in other areas

'that'll help launch a new brand into the marketplace.

'Will this be enough to convince Theo Paphitis to invest?'

Guys, listen, you've got something about you.

But you're not going to get into retail at a massive premium.

There's so much more to do before this can be a success.

I don't think I'm going to make money out of this.

I hope you do and I want to wish you the very best of luck.

But I'm afraid I'm out.

Thank you very much.

Listen, guys, I think the other Dragons have said it, really.

It's a tough one, isn't it? And even you are nodding your head.

It's one of those, "Is it going to make money or not?"

I'm sitting here and thinking...

You remind me a lot of the three guys I've met who started a brand that's become quite well-known,

the Innocents brand. You've got that quirkiness in you.

And I know that comes from your advertising agency stuff.

But I'm not totally convinced on the actual business and where it's at.

What I am absolutely convinced on

is the three people standing in front of me.

I think you're articulate, you're intelligent, you're clearly passionate

and if you're able to do a deal with one of the cinema groups,

it would extend the brand,

which might entice retailers to take a punt.

I'm going to make you an offer, because I think you have got something.

All of the money...

..in return for 45 percent of your business.

-OK. Can we have one moment?

-Yeah.

'A dramatic about turn

'as Peter Jones surprises his rival Dragons and makes an offer.

'But it's for nearly half the company.

'Will it prove too much for the brand-savvy entrepreneurs?'

THEY WHISPER

Yep, that'd be great, Peter.

APPLAUSE

'Martin, Tom and Christian have done it. They're approach may have split the den,

'but they walk away with a multi-millionaire business partner and a £70,000 investment.'

Well done, guys.

'Inspiration for business ideas come in many shapes and sizes.

'For trained lawyer Sophia Hussein from Preston,

'hers was from a situation many of us will relate to.'

It's been a long time coming,

but someone is finally here...

..to fight these. Parking fines.

'Sophia needed a £50,000 cash injection into her web-based business

'that challenges unlawfully-issued parking tickets.'

How much are you going to charge me?

The average parking fine in England and Wales in £80.

We take half of that, which is £40.

As a customer, I would really be angry.

The parking fine was illegal

but I'm still having to pay 40 quid.

-I mean, that just riled me.

-But it's better than paying 80.

'The subject of parking fines clearly touched a nerve with the Dragons.

'But the 27-year-old never looked likely to touch their cash.'

It's not very often that I see a business model...

..that I want to fail.

It's ridiculous and I hope people will just be a lot more careful where they park

and not just look for a little crack in the law

where the local authority hasn't quite met one of the 50 rules

where they've put a car parking space. I'm out.

It's not a ridiculous idea,

I just think we shouldn't be adding to the bureaucracy that already stupidly exists

in local councils anyway. You're obviously quite astute

and I'd go away and think of something else. But I've got to say, I'm out.

-Thank you.

-Thank you, Sophia.

'So far tonight, only one business has been deemed worthy of Dragon investment.'

-Great. Thank you very much.

-'If you want to find out what made Peter Jones enter the popcorn industry,

'press the red button at the end of the programme.'

The Dragons have invested in a wide variety of proposals over the years

and they have a diverse range of business interests themselves.

Glen Harden from Kent is next into the den

hoping to add his unique idea to their portfolios.

Hi. My name's Glen and I'm here to offer you 20 percent of my company for £50,000 investment.

The company's called UV Body Sculpture

and what it does, pretty much, is this.

And what it will very soon be able to do is this.

In the past, this kind of toned, defined look would've taken years to achieve,

but using UV Body Sculpture, this can be achieved in three to four weeks.

How?

It's easy. It's because this look is simply the result of a process called selective tanning.

You place a screen across your body, relax in the sun or under a sunbed

and allow your body's natural tanning process to do the rest.

I've owned this product and the patents for 14 years and I've done nothing with it.

It's gathered dust in my dad's lockup.

So I've got no sales figures to talk to you about.

No book work whatsoever. But what I do have is a potential target market

that I think is colossal,

because who wouldn't want to look a little bit better for £20?

Thank you. Any questions?

'A laconic and remarkably frank pitch

'from Kent-based father of four Glen Harden.

'Despite a 14-year lull in trading,

'he believes now is the time to plough £50,000

'into his patented tanning aid.

'But Duncan Bannatyne seems more interested in the entrepreneur's accomplice in the den.'

Erm, you've brought a model up the stairs.

Has he had some of this UV tanning?

-Oh, absolutely.

-He has?

-Yeah.

-Cos he looks just natural to me.

-What, the abs look natural?

-Yeah.

-Well, that's brilliant. That's absolutely superb, Duncan.

He's my son. He's got absolutely no abs.

-So he's actually a fat boy?

-No definition whatsoever.

No, he's a right little pudding. When he's really cut, he's OK.

But, no, the abs are selective tanning.

-My question is, he's used selective tanning?

-Sorry, yes.

-He has. OK.

-We could probably let the model go now.

-Yeah, OK.

OK? Thanks very much. Thanks a lot.

Right. How does it work?

-Can I hand you one?

-Yes, please.

The methodology is incredibly simple

but the results are very, very good.

-So what I do is, I put this bit across my body.

-Yeah.

So therefore it'll tan between these bits more and they'll be browner.

-I think they've got that, Duncan, yep.

-Right. OK.

-Thank you for explaining it.

'With a little Dragon assistance, the proposition Glen's offering is finally explained.

'But what of the man behind the invention?

'Theo Paphitis wants to know.'

-Glen, what do you do?

-I run my own business, a little family business manufacturing kitchens,

kitchens and bedrooms. And I've got six employees...

-..that rely on me for their jobs.

-How did you then get from

manufacturing kitchens and bedrooms to these screens? When?

I actually developed them 20 years ago,

but long before that, to be honest, when I was about 12 years old,

I was fascinated...

My mum used to buy us a season ticket to the local swimming pool in the summer holidays to get rid of us

and I was fascinated by the people that come in that had fallen asleep in the sun

and they'd look like they were wearing a string vest and it started from there.

And after you got the patent, you just put it in your dad's lockup?

-In my dad's lockup.

-So when you developed it, you obviously must have tried to sell it.

Did anyone buy any of them?

Oh, yeah, I probably sold... Yeah, my brother done me a web page in his bedroom.

It was getting one hit a day and then some days it was two hits.

Is that a clue?

No, I don't think it is a clue. If nobody knows about something, how the hell are they going to buy it?

'The Dragons look bemused as they get to grips with Glen's inimitable pitching style.

'Deborah Meaden wants to bring some order back to the den.'

-Glen, hi.

-Hi, Deborah.

Erm, you're very charming.

But I wouldn't for one second consider investing in you

unless you could give me something that said, "I've got more than something that I did 20 years ago

"and left in my garage." Cos so far that's all you've said.

That's a very good point, a very valid point.

But I don't know what else to say.

-You understand there's got to be something?

-Well, God, this is probably...

My dad taught me, never ask for anything.

Don't ask for money. This is the single hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

And you're probably going to ask me in a minute a business plan. I ain't got a clue.

Well, it's a very unusual approach, I have to say.

It's quite a high-risk strategy. But what you do have to do

is give us a reason to invest.

I sent an email to the tanning shop, just so I had something,

and I got an email back the following day asking for more details on the product.

I know that's not an order, but to me, from that to that for £20 is like a given.

I can't see a downside to it.

'Whether it's the steadfast belief in his product or his beguiling manner,

'Glen seems to have momentarily tamed the fierce multi-millionaires.

'Can Hilary Devey see any future for this business?'

Glen, I honestly think you could well be onto something.

Why not get out there and get it sold?

Take two weeks' holiday, go out there and market it.

Selling half a dozen screens doesn't interest me in the least.

It's not my skill set at all.

But if you've got six people working for you, you must have a salesman.

-My brother is my salesman.

-So why doesn't he, whilst in between...

You've got to meet him. We check for a pulse every week and regularly don't find one.

THEY LAUGH

-Your son's podgy and your brother you have to check for a pulse.

-Yeah.

-But you love them.

-He's got a low mileage car.

Glen, Glen, let's come back to a very valid question here.

-When you lie down on a sunbed, you put this on top of you.

-Yeah.

-But most sunbeds now are stand-up sunbeds.

-Mm.

-So what happens then?

They fall off.

-THEY LAUGH They do.

-He's got the measure of you!

-THEY LAUGH

-I'm a bit lost for words now.

But I don't think this'll sell for 20 quid.

Some tanning shops will buy it and they will sell it to their customers.

I see it as five quid maximum.

-I'm out.

-OK, my friend. Thank you.

'Normal den order is resumed

'as Duncan Bannatyne delivers the first blow to Glen's hopes of securing the cash.

'And Deborah Meaden is now ready to show her hand.'

Glen, I know you said you don't want to sell half a dozen here and half a dozen there,

-but do you know, when I started up, that's all I was selling.

-Mm-hm.

A bit here and a bit there. Because it tells you whether or not there's a market.

And if you'd been able to say to us, "I've had 20 yeses"

-I think you might have had a slightly different response.

-Mm-hm.

I think I'd struggle far more if I'd been knocking doors down and trying to flog a dead horse.

This is new to the market now because for 14 years, nobody's known about it.

-And you might well be right, it might be nothing.

-I'm out.

-OK.

Glen, it's taken you 14 years to send an email.

No, I disagree. I disagree.

-It has, yeah, technically, it's taken me 14 years.

-Doesn't that worry you?

Cos it would worry the pants off me, Glen.

You've been refreshing, you've been honest.

-But I'm out.

-OK, thank you.

'Two more Dragons out and Glen's prospects look bleak.

'And Hilary Devey looks to have made up her mind, too.'

Glen, do what I said.

-Get out there and get it sold.

-OK.

I can't put 50 grand into it. It's too hard earned.

-I wish you the best of luck, but I'm out.

-OK.

Glen, I've not said very much. I can't work out whether I like it or I don't like it.

If you've got two sunbeds standing next to each other, one does this and one does this,

-which one are you going to go on? Same price.

-That's what I would do. I would take this product

to a sunbed manufacturer and license it to them and say, "Every time you use my product,

"you've got to pay me X amount of money."

Nobody can copy you cos you've got the patent. So I would do that.

-I wish you the best of luck, but I'm out.

-Thank you.

'A disappointing end for Glen. He may have charmed the Dragons,

'but it takes more than that to part these multi-millionaires from their cash.'

I think they might have missed a trick. I still genuinely believe in the product.

I didn't plan to charm them into an investment

but I think Duncan started the ball rolling by trying to be the funny guy

and you do have to get up pretty early in the morning to be funnier than me

and he unfortunately didn't get up early enough.

'Other entrepreneurs who tried and failed in the den included Leicestershire-based Alan Clark

'who wanted £70,000 to help make bath time a little more entertaining.'

Bath Sound turns any bath into an audible loud speaker.

I slap my Bluetooth, it's looking to pair with my phone,

which it has done now, so now I can play my music.

CLASSICAL MUSIC PLAYS

Turn the volume up a little bit.

There are no speakers. The bath itself is the speaker. So you bathe in the speaker.

'It was the price that worried Peter Jones.'

-What do you think you'll be able to sell that for?

-£412 plus VAT.

-So it's a £500 product to have a Bluetooth speaker in your bathroom.

-Yep.

Wow.

'But for self-confessed gadget collector Theo Paphitis,

'the concerns were over the concept itself.'

You're going to have to handle your phone while you're in the bath,

which is never a clever idea. Not if you're as clumsy as I am.

I'm not convinced that you're going to have a massive market.

So I congratulate you on choosing a piece of Handel's Water Music,

which went nicely with the bath, but I'm out.

'Partners Elizabeth Chance and Colin Halfpenny from Cornwall

'brought a touch of glamour into the den, hoping to walk away with £50,000

'for their business supplying fashion accessories for dogs.'

SHE LAUGHS We started Dog Bling just as a hobby

but it soon became apparent that it had become more than a hobby and into a business.

We have a range of products which include personalised leather diamante collars,

dog goggles and also dog glasses.

'It turns out the Dragons are divided when it comes to canine sartorial taste.'

I like my animals to be animals. Personally, I don't like the sunglasses.

Let me have a look at the blingy one, cos I'm a blingy person.

'But the Dragons are united when it comes to revelations of modest trading figures.'

-What profit have you made over the last year?

-Last year we made £10,000.

You can't expect anyone in their right mind to invest £50,000

in a business that turns over nothing at the moment. For that reason, I'm out.

'So no cash for Elizabeth and Colin

'but some words of advice should they decide to take their chances in the den again.'

They're incredibly well behaved. Particularly him. He's gorgeous, isn't he?

The dogs have been so good, you should've got them to do the pitch.

-Yeah!

-We should have.

-Thank you so much.

With consumers looking for ways to save money at the moment,

"staycations" have soared in popularity.

Next into the den are husband and wife team Alan and Liz Colleran from Dewsbury

with an innovative product aimed at the caravan market.

Hello, Dragons. My name is Liz Colleran and this is my husband, Alan Colleran.

Our company is Raskelf Memory Foam and we're pitching for £80,000 for ten percent of our business.

We've been married 28 years. Our company came about from an idea we had whilst we were caravanning.

Our best-selling product is also our most innovative product. The Duvalay.

The Duvalay sleep system is really simple.

It has a special memory foam base which smoothes out the lumps and bumps in hard caravan seats.

It's totally open on one side, so you're not constricted like a normal sleeping bag. It's also,

when you're up against a cold caravan wall, it's totally joined. You never get a cold back or bottom.

You can have one for single or simply put two together to make a double.

And when you get home from your holiday, it's easy-peasy to wash.

You simply take the memory foam out, take the duvet out and wash it as a sheet.

So far, we've sold about 10,000 of these units

and each one retails at £120. So that's sales of about £1 million on this product alone.

In fact, we can't make them fast enough.

We need your help and expertise to help us break into the huge European and American markets.

Thank you for listening. Would you like to come and try?

'A well honed pitch from family business owners Liz and Alan Colleran.

'They need an £80,000 investment to expand their caravan accessory company

'and are willing to part with ten percent equity in return.'

-It is quite cosy.

-'Having enjoyed the product,

'Hilary Devey is first to quiz the duo.'

Liz, Alan, I think you've got a fantastic concept.

What made you think of this?

I was a housewife until seven years ago.

We only got the idea because I slept in a caravan and had a bad back

and we bought a piece of memory foam, looked at it, thought, "We could do that".

Nobody's doing this. We've got patent applications pending on it.

For the last seven years, it's been Alan and myself just thrashing things backward and forward.

OK, epitomise your vision.

We're looking at speed. We want to get it out fast, roll it into different countries.

At the moment, we're only scratching the surface. There's 2.2 million caravans in Holland, Germany,

the UK and the Netherlands which each have two of these beds.

Everybody, no matter what country you're in, will get up on a morning from those beds with a bad back.

-And you're telling me that there's absolutely nobody else in this country or in Europe doing this?

-No.

'A confident start from the experienced entrepreneurs.

'Leisure industry expert Deborah Meaden

'wants to delve into the detail behind their business.'

Liz, Alan, I mean, so far, great story.

So what are your... Can you give me some financial information? I only need a couple of years.

In 2009, we turned over about £465,000 with a net profit of about £35,000.

2010 was about £800,000

-with a net profit of £110,000.

-OK.

The turnover looks fantastic but...

I mean, it's a nice enough profit, but I would've hoped that it might have been higher.

Can you talk me through your P and L just for last year, just tell me what you're spending your money on.

We've got a factory, shop, showrooms.

-Wages.

-Wages, staff.

-What kind of money are they, then? Factory?

-Erm...

-That's £16,000 a year.

-Shop?

-Well, that's in with that, actually. It's all in there.

Sales staff?

-Staff, we've got ten staff.

-Ten staff.

Erm... We don't know the... We don't have those details, I'm afraid.

Well, we would know within five seconds of getting back to the office.

-No, Liz...

-I would say...

-I'm an investor.

All I want to know from you is how your business works

and things like "What is your wage bill?"

is pretty simple stuff.

What can I say?

'It's an awkward moment for the Collerans.

'A failure to demonstrate a grasp of your numbers rarely goes down well in the den.

'Will the couple fair any better under the scrutiny of Peter Jones?'

Liz, Alan, just going through those costs, erm,

I've got £800,000 revenue this year,

I've got £110,000 profit.

I'm looking for costs within the business. What do you pay yourselves?

We pay ourselves a dividend from the profit and we dip into that for the salary.

-So what would you say you took?

-We took about £15,000.

-Each?

-No.

-Between you. OK.

Do you run your business a bit like a lifestyle?

-So you take money when you need to?

-Yeah. Yes, we do.

-Yeah.

-Yeah, we do.

-What else do you spend money on?

Erm, I would say we spend...

-Try exhibitions.

-Exhibitions, yeah. We do loads of exhibitions.

Insurance. Light. Heating.

-Yeah.

-Yeah, the overheads.

-Transport.

-Have you got any vehicles that you've bought?

-We've only got one. We don't spend money on anything.

Well, you do spend money on something because you're spending.

How much do you think you spend a year when you say you don't spend any money on anything?

I don't know.

-You don't know? Don't know.

-You say we should have our finger on the button,

but we are running round like lunatics running this business. We're busy.

-There's only us two...

-Right, Liz, as an investor, how do you think that makes me feel?

-I would think...

-We're running around like lunatics.

-For the last seven years,

-we've worked really hard and brought a product to the market.

-No, Liz, when I ask you the questions,

you haven't got the answers and now you're getting extremely defensive.

You should know. Absolutely, you should know.

Can I say where I am? Liz, Alan, your numbers don't add up.

It's ridiculous and it's ludicrous and I am out.

'A brief but disparaging contribution from Duncan Bannatyne

'as Liz and Alan lose their first Dragon.

'Will Theo Paphitis be more forgiving?'

You knew you were coming here to look for investment.

Did you not think that someone might just ask you those questions?

-Yeah, we've thought about every single question except that.

-What...

Seriously, guys, I quite like the concept purely for its simplicity.

But it's not investable for me.

-I'm going to say I'm out.

-Thank you.

Liz, Alan, as a business,

I can't see getting a return at anything like what you've offered.

But I think you've done a really good job to create something from nothing.

You're amazingly passionate about what you've done, so good luck but I'm not going to invest and I'm out.

-Thank you.

-OK.

I'm really disappointed.

I've got no problem with people getting passionate. But, Liz, you border on the defensive.

You have got to give me a reason and enough information

to want to hand you my money, because I honestly, I promise you this,

if you had, you'd have had an investment from me.

-Oh.

-And I think that is a great shame.

I can't invest.

I'm sorry, Deborah.

And for that reason, I'm out.

'A sombre mood takes over the den and the once confident entrepreneurs look forlorn.

'Just one Dragon remains.

'Has Hilary Devey seen anything in the business that could turn around their investment fortunes?'

Erm, Liz, Alan...

You see, I think that you both need quite a lot of mentoring.

I think we do need some help.

I think this product's so good that sometimes it's quite daunting.

There's lots of different uses. There's trucks, there's the whole truck market.

-Boats, we sell them to boats.

-I think you've got a huge market, some of which you've not even touched on.

You need some input into the business to help you with the direction.

But unlike Deborah, I don't really think that's the end of the world.

I have people that can teach you that and keep your finger on the button.

So because I do think it has got vision...

..I'll offer you the full amount.

But I want 26 percent.

-You couldn't make it 20 percent?

-No, I'm sorry, I can't move from 26.

-22?

No.

Because it's a limited company, anybody owning 75 percent of the business has got total control.

So I need that protection and therefore I need 26 percent.

Can we go and have a word?

'A dramatic development in the den as Hilary Devey presents the duo with an investment lifeline.

'But it comes at a cost. More than a quarter of their company.

'Is it just too high a price to get a Dragon on board?'

THEY WHISPER

I'd like to take it, Hilary, but I want Alan to be happy with it.

Alan, don't say "All right" because your wife says all right.

-You've been married 28 years. She's not going to divorce you now.

-Yes.

-Yes, please! We've love it.

-Yes, please.

-Thank you.

-Well done.

'Liz and Alan have done it. In a last-minute turn around,

'they've secured the den's newest dragon and £80,000 of her cash.'

-I look forward to working with you, guys.

-Thank you. We do, as well.

Now, Liz and Alan, are you happy with what you've just signed up to?

I am. The more I think about it, the more happy I'm getting. We did say 20 percent would be our limit

but, for the sake of six percent...

I said to Alan when we got to the wall, "Are we going to lose this for six percent?

"Would we regret it? I don't know."

-We would've.

-Yeah, probably.

-Well, very good luck with it.

-Thank you.

So today our newest Dragon,

self-made multi-millionaire Hilary Devey,

has shown that not only does she have an eye for spotting potential money-making opportunities

but she's also prepared to take an independent line

and make up her own mind rather than following the crowd.

You can find out why Hilary invested in Alan and Liz today by pressing the red button now.

You can also follow us on Twitter or let us know what you thought of today's programme.

We're:

Goodbye.

-Passion doesn't create profit.

-How do you think it's gone so far?

-Can we start again?

-Wow.

-Anybody got a white flag? I surrender! It's relentless!

I think you're good, I think the product's good. I am prepared to look at the percentages.

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd

E-mail [email protected]

.