Dora Herbert Jones ‹ Cyfres 3

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-Gregynog Hall -is a famous centre of culture...	0:00:09	0:00:12
-..and the home -of the Davies Sisters.	0:00:12	0:00:15
-But there was another lady...	0:00:15	0:00:17
-..who played an important -yet unexpected role in our history.	0:00:17	0:00:22
-Dora Herbert Jones.	0:00:22	0:00:23
-The Gregynog Press -was her main interest.	0:00:26	0:00:28
-She dedicated herself...	0:00:29	0:00:32
-..to the press -and the Davies Sisters.	0:00:32	0:00:36
-They've often been spoken of as shy.	0:00:37	0:00:40
-I don't think I would call it shy. -It was another quality.	0:00:40	0:00:44
-She painstakingly ensured -that our folk tunes were protected.	0:00:47	0:00:52
-She was a great influence -on the performance of folk songs...	0:00:52	0:00:56
-..and the promotion -of our folk songs...	0:00:57	0:01:00
-..and the way English composers...	0:01:00	0:01:05
-..used the Welsh songs.	0:01:06	0:01:07
-But there's another side -to Dora's story.	0:01:08	0:01:11
-It's a story of mystery in the midst -of the Easter Rising in Ireland.	0:01:11	0:01:16
-She risked her life.	0:01:16	0:01:18
-Being caught carrying messages -in Ireland was dangerous.	0:01:18	0:01:23
-She could also have drowned -had her ship been torpedoed.	0:01:23	0:01:27
-My search for the story -of Dora Herbert Jones...	0:01:47	0:01:50
-..starts near my home in Cyfronydd.	0:01:51	0:01:54
-Gregynog Hall -is just a few miles away.	0:01:54	0:01:58
-We associate Gregynog with -Gwendoline and Margaret Davies...	0:01:58	0:02:03
-..but it also features -in Dora's story.	0:02:03	0:02:06
-This is where she lived and worked -for the majority of her life.	0:02:07	0:02:12
-But Dora's upbringing -was very different...	0:02:12	0:02:15
-..to the privileged lives -of Gwendoline and Margaret.	0:02:16	0:02:20
-Dora was the youngest -of five daughters.	0:02:21	0:02:24
-Her father ran a successful grocery -in the town of Llangollen.	0:02:24	0:02:30
-He was quite a character...	0:02:30	0:02:32
-..and believed strongly in giving -equal rights for girls in education.	0:02:33	0:02:38
-There was an incident with one aunt.	0:02:39	0:02:41
-She told him -not to waste his money...	0:02:41	0:02:44
-..and take his daughters to the -agricultural fairs to find husbands.	0:02:45	0:02:50
-He was quite adamant...	0:02:51	0:02:52
-..that his daughters had knowledge -as opposed to financial security.	0:02:52	0:02:58
-Where did Dora's -interest in music start?	0:02:58	0:03:02
-I think -she always had a love of music.	0:03:02	0:03:04
-Whilst at the county school -in Llangollen...	0:03:05	0:03:08
-..she took part -in concerts and operettas...	0:03:08	0:03:14
-..from a very young age.	0:03:14	0:03:18
-In 1908, Dora went to Aberystwyth -University to study Welsh...	0:03:21	0:03:25
-..but enjoyed traditional music -outside of her lectures.	0:03:25	0:03:30
-Folk music was unpopular at the time -in Wales.	0:03:30	0:03:35
-There were folk song societies -in England, Scotland and Ireland...	0:03:35	0:03:40
-..but there was nothing in Wales...	0:03:40	0:03:43
-..until J Lloyd Williams and his -type saw the value of these songs.	0:03:43	0:03:49
-Dr Mary Davies, a co-founder -of the Welsh Folk Song Society...	0:03:51	0:03:55
-..visited Aberystwyth to lecture...	0:03:55	0:03:58
-..and asked Dora -to sing examples of the songs.	0:03:58	0:04:01
-It was the start of a life -of singing folk songs.	0:04:01	0:04:05
-In March 1911...	0:04:05	0:04:08
-..four students -from Aberystwyth University...	0:04:08	0:04:13
-..spent six days in Paris.	0:04:13	0:04:16
-They performed in many concerts in -various locations across the city...	0:04:17	0:04:22
-..including -the Paris-Sorbonne University.	0:04:22	0:04:26
-You could say that this -was the first important step...	0:04:26	0:04:30
-..towards internationalizing -Welsh folk songs.	0:04:30	0:04:34
-Dora was undoubtedly -the star of those performances.	0:04:34	0:04:40
-This is where she mastered her -talent and ability as a singer...	0:04:40	0:04:45
-..and a person who interpreted -folk songs in a unique way.	0:04:45	0:04:51
-The emphasis was on the traditional -as opposed to the classical.	0:04:51	0:04:55
-But Dora chose to sidestep a career -as a singer and moved to London...	0:04:58	0:05:04
-..where she became the first woman -to work in the Houses of Parliament.	0:05:05	0:05:10
-It was quite a feat when women -were fighting for the right to vote.	0:05:10	0:05:15
-Dora was the secretary of the MP for -the Flint Boroughs, Herbert Lewis...	0:05:15	0:05:20
-..and often found herself -in the Houses of Parliament.	0:05:21	0:05:25
-Herbert's wife, Ruth was one of the -main collectors of Welsh folk songs.	0:05:25	0:05:31
-Dora accompanied her as she recorded -and collected the songs.	0:05:31	0:05:36
-They famously visited Jane Williams -in the Holywell Workhouse.	0:05:36	0:05:41
-She was over 80 years old -and was totally illiterate...	0:05:41	0:05:47
-..but she had an incredible memory.	0:05:47	0:05:50
-We went to see her one day.	0:05:50	0:05:53
-It was either 1911 or 1912 -but I think it was 1912.	0:05:53	0:05:56
-She was in her bed -but she wasn't ill at all.	0:05:57	0:06:00
-We started recording and got -five songs from her that afternoon.	0:06:00	0:06:05
-I went back time and time again.	0:06:05	0:06:09
-Mrs Herbert Lewis and others -also revisited Jane...	0:06:09	0:06:13
-..and her memory was miraculous.	0:06:13	0:06:15
-Dora is responsible...	0:06:16	0:06:17
-..for preserving the well-known -song, Beth Yw'r Haf I Mi?	0:06:18	0:06:22
-A German musician -called Johann Malchair...	0:06:23	0:06:27
-..visited Harlech -at the start of the 19th century.	0:06:27	0:06:32
-He heard this beautiful melody -as an instrumental piece...	0:06:32	0:06:36
-..and made a note of it -in a little pocket book.	0:06:36	0:06:40
-Some 100 years later...	0:06:40	0:06:43
-..Llew Tegid discovered the notebook -in a second-hand shop in Bangor.	0:06:43	0:06:48
-He showed the melody -to Dora Herbert Jones...	0:06:48	0:06:52
-..who showed it -to John Roberts Williams.	0:06:52	0:06:56
-John asked T H Parry-Williams -and Amy Parry-Williams...	0:06:56	0:07:00
-..if they would write lyrics -to accompany the melody.	0:07:00	0:07:04
-The result is a perfect marriage -between melody and lyrics.	0:07:04	0:07:08
-# What is the summer to me?	0:07:09	0:07:13
-# Just a poor winter -and a flood of tears #	0:07:13	0:07:19
-It was incredibly unfashionable...	0:07:19	0:07:22
-..to talk about folk songs -in those days.	0:07:22	0:07:27
-I was often told that -there was nothing of value...	0:07:27	0:07:31
-..to be recorded and safeguarded.	0:07:32	0:07:34
-But I can tell you -that it was not true.	0:07:35	0:07:38
-If I'm perfectly honest, they didn't -know the essence of a folk song.	0:07:38	0:07:43
-# The summer means... #	0:07:43	0:07:46
-Dora was a key figure in preserving -our folk songs.	0:07:46	0:07:51
-Shortly before her death...	0:07:51	0:07:54
-..Roy Saer from St Fagans made -a recording of Dora's own story.	0:07:54	0:07:59
-How do you view folk songs and -a series such as Hob y Deri Dando?	0:07:59	0:08:05
-It's important to state that -I don't want to be old-fashioned...	0:08:05	0:08:10
-..but I feel that you need -to have respect for the song.	0:08:10	0:08:14
-What was she like?	0:08:14	0:08:17
-I'll start by using the foreign term -of "formidable."	0:08:17	0:08:21
-Physically, she was a large woman -and very tall.	0:08:21	0:08:26
-She would look at you -with her piercing eyes...	0:08:26	0:08:30
-..and gave her opinions -on an array of topics.	0:08:30	0:08:34
-It wasn't pointless banter because -she was too intelligent for that.	0:08:34	0:08:39
-I don't want to sound pompous...	0:08:40	0:08:42
-..but every time -you sing a folk song...	0:08:43	0:08:46
-..you sing about the experience -even if you know nothing about it.	0:08:46	0:08:50
-She had a wide repertoire of songs -but enjoyed singing Hiraeth.	0:08:50	0:08:56
-It was often performed -at the end of her recitals.	0:08:57	0:09:00
-# Tell, great people of knowledge	0:09:06	0:09:13
-# Of what was longing made	0:09:14	0:09:21
-# And what material was put into it	0:09:22	0:09:28
-# That it should not	0:09:29	0:09:33
-# Fade as it is worn? #	0:09:33	0:09:40
-World War I opened many chapters -in Dora's life.	0:09:40	0:09:44
-In 1916, she married Herbert Jones -from Llangernyw.	0:09:45	0:09:48
-Shortly afterwards, -they went to France.	0:09:48	0:09:51
-Herbert was injured at Ypres.	0:09:51	0:09:54
-Dora stayed in Verdun with Margaret -and Gwendoline Davies from Gregynog.	0:09:54	0:09:59
-She ran a canteen -and sang to the soldiers.	0:09:59	0:10:02
-She was the Vera Lynn of her day.	0:10:02	0:10:04
-After leaving France, she got -another job in the political world.	0:10:08	0:10:12
-It took her to the heart of the -battle for independence in Ireland.	0:10:13	0:10:18
-It's 1917, a bleak time -with the war raging in Europe.	0:10:19	0:10:23
-Britain fought on two fronts -since the Irish uprising.	0:10:24	0:10:27
-In the midst of it all, -Dora started a new job...	0:10:28	0:10:32
-..which meant travelling between -London and Dublin regularly.	0:10:32	0:10:36
-It's both confidential -and dangerous...	0:10:37	0:10:39
-..especially as the waters -were full of German u-boats.	0:10:40	0:10:43
-But what was her actual role?	0:10:44	0:10:46
-.	0:10:51	0:10:52
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-Today's crossing from Holyhead -to Dublin is relatively smooth.	0:10:57	0:11:01
-It was a different story in the -midst of war some 100 years ago.	0:11:01	0:11:05
-At 26, Dora Herbert Jones regularly -travelled between London and Dublin.	0:11:06	0:11:12
-She claims to be doing -confidential work...	0:11:12	0:11:15
-..for Lord Wimborne, -the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland.	0:11:15	0:11:20
-What was the situation in Ireland -during Dora's visits?	0:11:22	0:11:26
-It was a very troubled time -in Ireland...	0:11:27	0:11:29
-..following the Easter Rising -against the British government.	0:11:30	0:11:34
-The leaders of the rising -had been shot...	0:11:34	0:11:38
-..whilst others -were imprisoned in Britain.	0:11:38	0:11:41
-Many were held in Frongoch -near Bala.	0:11:41	0:11:44
-Was it a dangerous time to travel -between London and Ireland?	0:11:44	0:11:49
-Yes, it was in 1917.	0:11:49	0:11:51
-German u-boats were active in the -waters and sank every ship in sight.	0:11:51	0:11:57
-Dora was risking her life.	0:11:57	0:12:00
-Yes, she risked her life.	0:12:00	0:12:02
-Being caught carrying messages -in Ireland was dangerous.	0:12:02	0:12:06
-She could also have drowned -had her ship been torpedoed.	0:12:06	0:12:10
-Dora loved being in Dublin.	0:12:13	0:12:15
-She played the organ -in the Welsh chapel..	0:12:16	0:12:18
-..and enjoyed a life of grandeur -with her employer.	0:12:19	0:12:22
-# Dome epais #	0:12:22	0:12:25
-In Dora's time, the British Empire -governed Ireland from Dublin Castle.	0:12:25	0:12:31
-Lord Wimborne came here -and Dora was at his side...	0:12:32	0:12:35
-..at some of the most -exciting events in Irish history.	0:12:35	0:12:40
-# A la rose s'assemble #	0:12:40	0:12:45
-There's no evidence to reveal the -nature of Dora's confidential work.	0:12:46	0:12:51
-But Lloyd George used the Welsh and -their language on secret missions.	0:12:51	0:12:57
-# Sur la rive en fleurs, -riant au matin #	0:12:57	0:13:03
-What are your thoughts on the claims -that she did undercover work?	0:13:03	0:13:08
-It's a valid point...	0:13:08	0:13:10
-..because the British government -at the time...	0:13:10	0:13:15
-..didn't trust their own -civil servants in Ireland.	0:13:15	0:13:20
-They didn't know who was carrying -messages to the various parties...	0:13:20	0:13:25
-..so Dora was a natural choice.	0:13:25	0:13:28
-Lloyd George knew her...	0:13:28	0:13:32
-..so she could carry messages -from Ireland to Downing Street.	0:13:32	0:13:37
-I wanted to learn more about Dora -and this period in time.	0:13:43	0:13:47
-Finding clues proved difficult...	0:13:47	0:13:50
-..until Dora's granddaughter -called me...	0:13:50	0:13:53
-..about her grandmother's letters.	0:13:54	0:13:56
-The information about Dora's son -was quite astounding.	0:13:57	0:14:00
-He was, for thirty years, -a civil servant...	0:14:03	0:14:06
-..apparently in the Foreign Office.	0:14:07	0:14:09
-Only after he'd retired...	0:14:09	0:14:12
-..I learnt that he was actually in -the intelligence service or MI6...	0:14:12	0:14:18
-..and so was my mother...	0:14:18	0:14:21
-..and various other godfathers -and godmothers.	0:14:21	0:14:25
-And you had no idea.	0:14:25	0:14:26
-And you had no idea. - -We had no idea.	0:14:26	0:14:28
-And I don't think that Dora -actually knew that he was in MI6.	0:14:28	0:14:33
-What about the idea that she did -secret service work in Ireland?	0:14:34	0:14:38
-What do you think?	0:14:38	0:14:39
-What do you think? - -I don't know.	0:14:39	0:14:42
-My gut feeling is that she was -either a trustworthy secretary...	0:14:42	0:14:47
-..or possibly just acting -as a courier carrying letters back.	0:14:47	0:14:51
-Do you think that's likely?	0:14:51	0:14:53
-I don't know but I think the story -might be in these letters...	0:14:54	0:14:58
-..which have been in these boxes -for some time.	0:14:59	0:15:02
-It won't be spelt out and I'll -have to read between the lines.	0:15:03	0:15:07
-We know Dora returned from Ireland -when Lord Wimborne retired...	0:15:09	0:15:14
-..but she never spoke to anyone -about her secret missions.	0:15:14	0:15:20
-In 1918, Dora and Herbert had a -daughter who they called Elspeth...	0:15:23	0:15:28
-..who was shortly followed -by a son called Hugh.	0:15:28	0:15:32
-On the day of Hugh's christening, -Dora also buried her husband.	0:15:32	0:15:38
-Herbert never recovered from the -injuries he sustained in the war.	0:15:38	0:15:42
-The majestic and historical -Gregynog Hall.	0:15:49	0:15:52
-Dora lived in Aberystwyth -after her husband's death...	0:15:53	0:15:56
-..before becoming the secretary -of Margaret and Gwendoline Davies.	0:15:57	0:16:01
-They owned the hall -and its famous press.	0:16:01	0:16:04
-Dora was the PR officer -and involved in marketing.	0:16:10	0:16:15
-She was responsible -for selling the books...	0:16:16	0:16:19
-..and ran rigorous quality control -checks on all the publications.	0:16:19	0:16:24
-Many felt that she was the press.	0:16:24	0:16:27
-The emphasis in this place -was on standards.	0:16:27	0:16:31
-Only the finest would do.	0:16:31	0:16:32
-This was not some little hobby...	0:16:33	0:16:36
-..of two romantic sisters -in a beautiful home...	0:16:36	0:16:39
-..with money to squander.	0:16:40	0:16:41
-Oh, no. It was serious. -It had a purpose.	0:16:42	0:16:45
-What was the relationship -between the hall and the press?	0:16:46	0:16:50
-There was an underlying feeling...	0:16:50	0:16:53
-..that the press was viewed -as a commercial venture...	0:16:53	0:16:58
-..and the hall -was on a higher playing field.	0:16:59	0:17:02
-Dora belonged to both -so where did she fit in?	0:17:02	0:17:06
-Yes, Dora found herself -in an uncomfortable position.	0:17:06	0:17:10
-She was a friend of the sisters.	0:17:10	0:17:13
-There was a feeling -amongst her co-workers...	0:17:13	0:17:16
-..that she would tell tales -to their employers.	0:17:16	0:17:20
-She dedicated herself to the press -and to the sisters.	0:17:21	0:17:26
-I don't think that the sisters -were sensitive enough...	0:17:26	0:17:31
-..to show the amount of respect -that they had for all she did.	0:17:31	0:17:36
-Dora lived on the estate in a house -called Bron Bechan.	0:17:38	0:17:41
-It became a centre -for the cultural life of the hall.	0:17:42	0:17:45
-It was an exciting -but challenging time...	0:17:46	0:17:49
-..and it wasn't always easy.	0:17:49	0:17:51
-They've often been spoken of as shy.	0:17:51	0:17:54
-I don't think I would call it shy.	0:17:54	0:17:56
-It was another quality.	0:17:57	0:17:58
-They shunned publicity.	0:17:59	0:18:01
-Indeed perhaps you and I would -if we had a million each.	0:18:01	0:18:04
-I've never had it so can't tell you -but they did shun it.	0:18:05	0:18:08
-She was friendly with both but they -were very different from each other.	0:18:08	0:18:13
-And Daisy, in any case, -was very jealous of Dora.	0:18:14	0:18:20
-I don't know for what reason.	0:18:20	0:18:22
-It may have been -that Gwen was very fond of Dora...	0:18:22	0:18:25
-..or it may have been that she was -jealous of her various talents.	0:18:26	0:18:30
-I really don't know.	0:18:30	0:18:32
-When it comes to Gwen, -it was different.	0:18:32	0:18:34
-Gwen was absolutely dependent -on Dora after she got to Gregynog.	0:18:35	0:18:40
-They were very alike -in lots of ways.	0:18:40	0:18:43
-But also, they had a great affection -for each other.	0:18:43	0:18:47
-They remained very close...	0:18:47	0:18:49
-..until the very last few years...	0:18:50	0:18:55
-..of Gwen's life.	0:18:55	0:18:57
-That was really very sad.	0:18:58	0:19:00
-Very sad indeed.	0:19:00	0:19:02
-Gwen mistrusted Dora.	0:19:02	0:19:04
-If one had not lived -in a great house...	0:19:04	0:19:08
-..and the other lived in a cottage -and felt inferior...	0:19:08	0:19:12
-..they would have been real buddies.	0:19:12	0:19:15
-They didn't always see eye-to-eye...	0:19:19	0:19:21
-..but it proved to be a successful -partnership for both parties.	0:19:22	0:19:26
-Gwendoline and Margaret Davies' -greatest gift...	0:19:29	0:19:34
-..was the new lease of life they -gave to the Welsh music world...	0:19:34	0:19:40
-..thanks to their generosity.	0:19:40	0:19:43
-More importantly...	0:19:43	0:19:44
-..they invited many influential -and prominent English musicians...	0:19:45	0:19:50
-..to stay at Gregynog Hall.	0:19:50	0:19:52
-When these legendary musicians...	0:19:52	0:19:54
-..such as Elgar, Delius, -Vaughan Williams and Holst...	0:19:55	0:19:59
-..visited Gregynog...	0:19:59	0:20:01
-..they were entertained -in the evenings by Dora Rowlands.	0:20:01	0:20:05
-She sang traditional Welsh songs.	0:20:05	0:20:08
-Shortly afterwards...	0:20:08	0:20:11
-..those composers -used some of the Welsh melodies...	0:20:11	0:20:15
-..as the basis -of their compositions.	0:20:15	0:20:18
-They also arranged -Welsh folk songs...	0:20:18	0:20:21
-..for quartets -and the choral tradition in England.	0:20:21	0:20:26
-Stanley Baldwin, I suppose...	0:20:29	0:20:31
-..was the most famous non-musician -who ever went to Gregynog.	0:20:31	0:20:36
-They gave him a home for rest -during the abdication time.	0:20:36	0:20:41
-Dora was largely -left in charge of him.	0:20:41	0:20:44
-I think she and Stanley Baldwin -got on extremely well.	0:20:44	0:20:50
-Dora endured a second tragedy...	0:20:57	0:20:59
-..with the death of her daughter -at the age of 21.	0:20:59	0:21:02
-Elspeth was returning from Australia -when her ship was hit by a torpedo.	0:21:02	0:21:08
-After all that had happened...	0:21:09	0:21:11
-..Dora couldn't face -staying in Gregynog.	0:21:12	0:21:15
-She spent the rest of her life -lecturing about folk songs...	0:21:22	0:21:28
-..leaving an incredible legacy.	0:21:28	0:21:30
-She was just as comfortable on large -stages as she was in small vestries.	0:21:30	0:21:36
-She could empathize and appeal -to both adults and children.	0:21:36	0:21:41
-She was so important -and worked in many fields...	0:21:41	0:21:45
-..as a PR officer for folk music.	0:21:45	0:21:48
-She was active in the society...	0:21:48	0:21:50
-..but also lectured -to various groups...	0:21:51	0:21:53
-..and was prominent -in the Eisteddfod.	0:21:54	0:21:57
-If we had a recording of Dora -singing Welsh folk songs...	0:21:57	0:22:01
-..when she was in her prime...	0:22:01	0:22:04
-..I'm sure many singers in Wales...	0:22:04	0:22:08
-..would understand -how to interpret a folk song.	0:22:08	0:22:13
-It shouldn't be like a classical -song or an operatic aria...	0:22:13	0:22:17
-..but something totally natural.	0:22:17	0:22:20
-That was Dora's greatest skill.	0:22:20	0:22:22
-The tragedy is that -so few emulate her today.	0:22:22	0:22:25
-In January 1974, Dorothy received -a phone call from Dora.	0:22:26	0:22:31
-Her voice suggested -that all was not well.	0:22:31	0:22:36
-At the end, she said...	0:22:38	0:22:40
-.."Goodnight, darling. -I do hope I'll see you again."	0:22:40	0:22:43
-And I said, "goodnight."	0:22:44	0:22:47
-That really worried me -because that wasn't Dora.	0:22:48	0:22:52
-That wasn't her at all.	0:22:52	0:22:54
-I was so worried...	0:22:54	0:22:55
-..I decided I'd go over -the next morning to see her.	0:22:55	0:22:59
-By ten o'clock the next morning, her -cleaner had found her dead in bed.	0:23:00	0:23:04
-Her lively voice was silent.	0:23:11	0:23:14
-Her mischievous smile was still -and zest for life had gone.	0:23:14	0:23:19
-Dora described Gregynog as one of -the most magical places in Wales...	0:23:20	0:23:25
-..and this is where she returned -in the end.	0:23:25	0:23:28
-I hope she knows that Gregynog and -Wales were much richer places...	0:23:28	0:23:34
-..thanks to her hard work -and dedication.	0:23:34	0:23:37
-S4C Subtitles By Tinopolis	0:23:57	0:24:00

Dora Herbert Jones Mamwlad

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