Ann Widdecombe The TV That Made Me

Telly, that magic box in the corner.

It gives us access to a million different worlds,

all from the comfort of our sofa.

In this series, I'm going to journey through the fantastic world

of TV with some of our favourite celebrities.

They've chosen the precious TV moments that shed light...

-Proper.

-She seems like a nice girl, though.

Look at that!

..on the stories of their lives.

# Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew

# Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub! #

Some are funny...

-Could you do the chanting?

-I could do...

Nyow, nyow, nyow...

-Some...

-Amazing!

-..are surprising.

-SHE LAUGHS

I was mortified.

Some are inspiring.

I am not a number, I am a free man!

And many...

Did George Orwell get his predictions right?

It's all so dramatic!

..are deeply moving.

Oh, no!

'And heads down the beach towards almost certain death.'

All of us, weeping!

So come watch with us as we hand-pick the vintage telly that

helped turn our much-loved stars into the people they are today.

Welcome to The TV That Made Me.

My guest today has done it all.

She is a novelist, documentary maker,

agony aunt and a former government minister.

In fact, she has pulled off the impossible.

Because the truly awesome

Ann Widdecombe is a politician we are actually very fond of.

The TV that made her includes...

Power dressing and bed hopping in the boat-building saga Howards' Way.

Why? Mark's not coming back till later.

You mean he SAID he wasn't coming back till later.

The mother of all raucous rock and roll shows.

# Old King Cole was a merry old soul

# And a merry old soul was he. #

And the crime busting adventures of a sleuth...

in a surplice.

-Has anything been taken?

-No, nothing has been taken.

How can you be so sure?!

It can only be the one and only, the legend - Ann Widdecombe -

-with us today.

-Hello.

-Are you happy to be here?

I am very happy to be here.

-We are happy you are here.

-Good.

Because you are formidable.

-I must say, I am a bit nervous to be in your company.

-Yes, you should be.

HE LAUGHS

So, was the young Widdecombe too busy to watch TV?

Well, interestingly, I didn't see any television until I was nine

because my father was with the Admiralty

and so we used to move around every two to three years.

When I was five, we moved to Singapore.

And when I came back from Singapore,

that was the first time I saw television.

And I was nearly nine.

So what did you think of TV when you first saw it at the age of nine?

I was very excited by it because, of course, the only thing

I had seen that was remotely similar was the cinema, you know,

film on the big screen.

And so it seemed to me that here I had my own little cinema almost,

in this little box in the corner.

I was vastly excited by it.

-Yeah? We want to go back to the beginning now...

-Right.

..and just see a little bit more,

and find out a little bit more about the young Ann Widdecombe.

Ann Widdecombe is the daughter of Rita and James Widdecombe, MBE.

And sister of devoted older brother Malcolm,

who would later study theology and become a priest.

She enjoyed a well-travelled childhood,

as Dad's took the family as far afield as Singapore.

But home was always England.

And in 1956, the family returned, living first

in rural Sussex before finally settling in Bath,

where Ann attended a strict convent school.

Ann, what was life like back then?

The young Ann, at home, your lounge?

It was a very safe, very secure and totally free life.

Children could go off, and they did.

They could go off all day, playing.

We had no mobile phones. We had no means of contacting our parents.

-Parents never worried. It was a very, very safe life.

-Mm-hm.

And I used to go off with friends.

We used to go into the woods and have Enid Blyton-style

adventures. In our imagination, course.

And we used to take picnics.

Providing we came back at the time specified by our parents,

which was likely to be six o'clock at night, nobody worried.

Nobody wondered where we were.

-So, Ann, you're nine years old.

-Yes.

-We are going on to your first clip now.

-Yes.

I believe it is quite biblical?

Yes. There was a lot of religious television watched in my household.

My brother was training for the priesthood.

And so we were very interested.

But I remember particularly,

we used to get a lot of religious dramatisations.

And there was a phenomenal one -

Patrick Troughton as Paul of Tarsus.

And, oh, do I wish they would bring that out on DVD.

Shall we have a little peek?

-Oh, can we?

-Of course we can. Here we go.

A man from Galilee who followed Jesus of Nazareth.

Oh, yes. They have quite a following, haven't they?

Well, from all that I hear,

they are doing much good in the city -

feeding the poor, caring for widows and fatherless children

and teaching people to lead godly lives.

So you are saying it was very true to the Bible.

It stuck entirely with the Bible.

I mean, in those days, you didn't mess about.

HE LAUGHS

Will you give us your opinion of the sect known as the Nazarenes?

How does it feel going back to that?

Well, it is just amazing seeing it again cos I haven't seen it since.

I was given a very grainy recording

of it by somebody on one occasion.

But I haven't seen it in that quality since I first saw it.

Paul Of Tarsus stayed true to the Bible in its storytelling.

Exterior scenes were shot on location in Crete,

which brought a naturalism to the series that TV audiences had

seldom seen in a biblical drama before.

This is a very serious subject...

-Yes.

-..for someone so young.

I mean, was it a very religious upbringing you had?

-Well...

-Did the whole family sit and watch?

Well, Paul Of Tarsus we all watched.

Or certainly, my mother and I would have watched.

But I think it was on a Sunday, which would have likely meant that we

were all glued, and my brother when he was home from theological college.

So I can see again the lounge

and the television

and the family gathered round, watching.

Was it a big telly?

Oh, good heavens, no. It was a very modest little thing. It stood...

It was wooden.

-Yeah.

-It stood up on four legs.

And, of course, again, what people don't generally realise

is there were only two channels in those days.

-Where we were, out in the country, we only got one.

-Yeah.

-So I had the BBC or nothing.

-I like the fact that telly just...

-You'd turn it on and it had to warm up.

-Oh, it had to warm up.

You would turn on the set, it will be two minutes

if you were going to see Paul of Taurus.

And of course, the Paul Of Tarsus story is so exciting,

cos it begins off persecuting the Christians.

And you have this massive incident on the road to Damascus.

And then he is blind, and then he is healed...

And then he goes off on his journeys, and he gets shipwrecked.

And he gets chased away from things, and he has narrow escapes.

And in the end, he has to appeal to Caesar. And that's it.

-It sounds like we should remake it.

-I think...

Well, I don't think anybody could do it as well as Patrick Troughton.

So, shall I just leave you to watch this?

Yes, absolutely, you go away and I'll watch this.

You're just happy to watch that, yeah.

Paul Of Tarsus had a huge impact on the biblical dramas

that were to follow.

After Patrick Troughton's realistic portrayal of St Paul,

TV tried to make characters from the Bible as authentic

as they possibly could be.

They teach that this...this criminal rose from the dead

and now sits at the right hand of God!

In 1969, Colin Blakely's

tormented performance as Jesus

in Dennis Potter's stark

Son Of Man may have drawn

complaints from Mary Whitehouse,

but it was hailed as a masterpiece.

In 1977, Robert Powell took this

one step further with his powerful

and moving performance

in Jesus Of Nazareth.

James Nesbitt's portrayal

of Pontius Pilate as a world-weary

soldier was incredibly powerful

in The Passion in 2008.

And Andrew Buchan gave us

the troubled, angry and exhausted

new father, Joseph,

in The Nativity in 2010.

Was there anything else weekly that you would religiously watch?

There was the weekly play.

And then on a Saturday, of course, there was Six-Five Special.

So The Six-Five Special, that was something very special for you?

-Believe it or not, at 6.05.

-Yeah.

Well, why was it called that?

It would start at five past six.

And it was the first, I suppose,

of the pop programmes that went on to Juke Box Jury and things like that.

Would you like to see a little moment from The Six-Five Special?

-With Pete Murray, yes, I would.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

This, ladies and gentlemen,

is The Six-Five Special.

# The Six-Five Special Steaming down the line

-# Down the line... #

-Go on, Ann.

# The Six-Five Special Right on time... #

# Everybody do the rock!

The Six-Five Special isn't referring to a train full of cool musicians

steaming into our living rooms.

It refers to the start time.

In 1957, it was the very first show to fill the hour-long gap

the BBC placed in the schedule between six and seven

so parents could get their kids to bed.

It was also Britain's first live music show,

pointing the way to the '60s three years before they happen.

# Everybody do the roll. #

-So this was your Top Of The Pops, really.

-Yes.

In those days, indeed, yes.

I can remember skiffle was a very big thing.

You know, with washboards.

So, in those days, you wouldn't get up and have a little jig?

Oh, no, absolutely not. No.

-No. It wouldn't appeal. Just wouldn't appeal.

-No?

-No.

So it was much later on, obviously...

Yeah, I think we were in the '60s with the twist before I found much

appeal in dancing.

In any way, what would it take

for you to dance now?

-Oh, pretty well nothing.

-Really?

-I couldn't get you up to have a little jig?

-No.

-You absolutely couldn't. Good.

-Fair enough.

That's clear, is it? Good.

-Well, I tried.

-You've tried.

-I tried, you know.

-The Six-Five Special...

-Yes.

-..had many, many guest appearances from many stars.

-Yes, it did.

We wanted to put you to the test now and see

-if you could name some of the people...

-I wouldn't be able to.

-Well, who knows? You don't know.

-I know.

-Have a look at these pictures.

-Who do we think that is?

-I think that is either a very young...

-Dusty Springfield.

-Mm-hm, possibly. Or?

-Or a very young...

-Go on.

Well, it's not Kathy Kirby. I don't know, no.

You'll kick yourself.

-Go on, tell me.

-Petula Clark.

-Strewth! Is that Pet Clark?

-Yeah.

Let's try the next one now.

Have a look at this one, tell me who you think this might be.

You'll get this.

No idea.

Tommy Steele.

Almost before my time, yep.

Oh, that has got to be Helen Shapiro.

You will be absolutely amazed when I tell you that is a very,

-very young Shirley Bassey.

-Oh, no!

It is, isn't it? Isn't it amazing?

Good heavens! I wouldn't have got that.

I would've got that as Helen Shapiro. Yeah, right. OK.

-Well, there you are, you see? I got them all wrong.

-Well,

-you proved a point.

-Yes, right.

# Everybody do the rock and roll. #

With ground-breaking live performances,

The Six-Five Special ushered in a new era of pop shows that kids

thought were great but some adults thought would end the world.

ITV jumped on the pop bandwagon

in 1958 with Oh Boy!

It made the careers of bands

like The Drifters

and featured acts including

Shirley Bassey and Lonnie Donegan.

In 1963, Friday nights saw

the start of a brand-new pop series

on ITV.

Early shows were presented

by the brilliant Dusty Springfield,

who made sure the weekend started

with Ready Steady Go!

Not to be outdone, the BBC launched a new music show

live from a converted church in Manchester -

Top Of The Pops.

Among the acts on the first episode

were The Dave Clark Five

performing Glad All Over,

which is exactly how we all felt.

Now, you were at boarding school,

-in Bath.

-Yes, I went to boarding school.

What was it you used to watch there?

Well, there was a great innovation when we were in the third form.

We were given a common room with a television in it.

HE GASPS

And we were allowed to watch a very restricted amount of television.

There were two things that we loved.

One was one of the very earliest soaps. It was called Compact.

It was the story of a magazine and the staff who worked on it.

The other was Dr Kildare.

And we all used to come down

from the dormitories to watch Dr Kildare.

So we had to go up to the dormitories and get into our pyjamas

and dressing gowns.

And then we were allowed down to watch Dr Kildare

so that we could go straight to bed afterwards.

We all adored Dr Kildare.

-Shall we have a little look?

-Yeah.

See if it is still... See if you still feel that way.

-Hi.

-Huh?

Oh, hi, Lana.

I hear it's hand flapping time, daddy.

Yeah, uh...

Come on in here.

-Very handsome man.

-Hm.

Dr Kildare was one of the first big American drama

series to play on the BBC.

With cinema standard production values,

universal storylines

and an impossibly handsome star

in Richard Chamberlain,

British audiences immediately

took to this foreign import.

No...

-Lana, if there were any other way...

-(Please don't tell me.)

-Lana, you have got to listen to me.

-I don't want to hear it!

-Lana!

It's audience figures

soared to 15 million,

and it kept Chamber fans'

hearts beating until 1966.

-I'm surprised you could sleep at the end of one of those.

-Yes.

I don't remember that particular episode, but, as I say,

we used to watch Dr Kildare every single week.

I mean, it was very dramatic. Is that typical?

Oh, it was always very dramatic.

There was always some very big central drama to every episode.

So either somebody was dying or he was in a moral dilemma as to

whether he should do X or Y.

Or he had made some big mistake. Whatever it was.

Every week, there was some crucial drama.

Mm-hm. Was he a renegade? Bending the rules, do you think?

Um...

Actually, very often he wasn't.

And I remember there was one episode,

quite a long way into Dr Kildare,

so I think I was much older when I saw it,

but there was one episode where he had to make a choice

that if he gave evidence in a particular way,

it was going to deny a child compensation.

But if he told the absolute,

rigid truth,

he would have to do that.

So it was an interesting dilemma.

-Did it make you want to become a doctor?

-No.

I was useless at science. I really was.

I was always good at classics - Latin and Greek. I was good at English.

I was good at history.

But I was useless, useless, useless at maths and science.

And if I had said I wanted to be a doctor,

the nuns would still be laughing now.

You expect the two men to comfort each other?

Dr Kildare proved that there is no moral dilemma too big

to be faced by TV medics.

And actors love to play them as much as we love to watch them.

The BBC's home-grown answer to Kildare came in 1962

in the form of Bill Simpson's

Dr Finlay and his casebook.

He faced weekly dramas

in the fictional Scottish town

of Tannochbrae.

The homeliness of Dr Finlay

was left far behind

when the nurses of Angels

appeared on our screens in 1975.

Fiona Fullerton and her team dealt

with hard-hitting dramas

in and out of hospital.

In 1986, a medical series

came along that proved

the possibilities of a drama set

in a medical community are endless.

From the early days of Charlie Fairhead

and Megan Roche to today's

medical team led by Connie Beauchamp,

Casualty is the longest running

emergency medical drama in the world.

And after 29 years,

Derek Thompson's Charlie Fairhead

is still going strong.

What was boarding school like in the '60s?

Were you a fan of it? Do you approve of it?

The one I went to was very strict, even by the standards of the age.

And so most of the other boarders -

not all of them but most of them -

were Forces.

And it was an age...

I think this would shock people to realise,

but the girls in my dormitory whose

parents were RAF used to see them

once a year if they were posted abroad.

-They used to be...

-Were you more fortunate than that?

-I was.

I was with my parents throughout when we were on foreign postings.

But my brother wasn't so fortunate.

And indeed, it was worse in his time.

He remained behind while we were in Singapore.

But they didn't even allow them out once a year then.

-How long did you not see your brother for?

-Three years.

It was a three-year tour. So... And that was standard.

-And was your brother much older than you?

-He was ten years older than me.

We were pre-war and post-war,

or as he always says - quality and utility.

HE LAUGHS

And, this is now your must-see TV.

This is when you had to get your homework done

quickly enough to watch.

-This is of course Hans...

-Hans and Lotte Hass.

Scarcely a day goes by without one or other of us going over the side

with a still or a movie camera

to check up all the rare fish

we come across.

We carry, of course, a good library of reference books.

So what was this about, then?

This was underwater exploration.

So we would have all the fish and the sea life.

Lotte first met Hans Hass when she applied for a job as his secretary.

By 1956, Lotte and Hans were on our screens in the first

underwater natural history film ever broadcast on the BBC.

This six-part series Diving To Adventure

took our breath away.

Lotte and Hans went on to win an Oscar for their work in 1959.

We take it for granted now, but to be having cameras underwater...

This was extraordinary to us at the time.

I mean, now there is no corner of the earth that hasn't been visited.

Everybody goes on safari, so the wonders of Attenborough,

people experience it first-hand now.

But this to us, in those days, it was just extraordinary.

Nobody did this, you know? This wasn't...

I was especially interested in diving because,

of course, I had grown up a lot in Singapore.

-So you had done a lot...?

-Everything was water sports.

Everything was swimming, diving, sailing.

Everything was based on the water.

And so diving itself had no particular fascination for me.

Well, I knew so many people who did it.

But then suddenly to see this sort of stuff under the sea

and the wonders of nature... Just amazing.

I mean, even in black and white, it still seems...

-wonderful.

-Oh, yeah.

-And to have a woman in such a strong, central role.

-Yes.

What I think is quite hard to describe to people now is that then

very few people had seen much of the world.

The sort of stuff that Attenborough

used to show us - you know, tribes in Africa -

nobody had gone and seen the Massai dancing, as they do now.

That was something you only saw on television.

Nobody had even seen even, say, Pompeii or the Acropolis.

People didn't go abroad for their holidays.

They largely stayed in this country.

The only people who had seen all that

were those who had come back from the wars

and, frankly, never wanted to see most of it again.

But the ordinary Brit did not go

travelling vast distances to

exotic places every summer like they do now.

We went to see family in Cornwall or something.

So this was amazing stuff because it was the only way we could see it.

-Obviously, later we had Jacques Cousteau.

-Yes.

But he was the first.

Absolutely.

Him and Attenborough, I can remember for bringing

things into our sitting rooms that most of us had not seen.

Lotte and Hans not only

introduced us to brand-new worlds,

they created a whole new type

of danger-loving TV explorer.

And here are three of the toughest.

Yummy mummies' favourite

Steve Backshall proved

with his deadly series of shows

for CBBC that he can track down any

animal on our earth and then catch

it, often with his bare hands.

Ray Mears is the man

who takes the idea of being

a lover of the great outdoors

to the extreme.

And former children's TV presenter

Helen Skelton has crisscrossed

the globe on a series

of epic adventures, in the process

breaking two Guinness World Records.

Now, your next choice is Cadfael.

-Yes.

-Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Yes. Cadfael is a detective monk

in medieval times.

So a great deal of the action is actually set in the monastery,

but he is investigating crimes - murders of course -

from the perspective of somebody

who didn't have today's fingerprints

and DNA and all the rest of it.

What he did have was a great knowledge of herbs.

He was a herbalist.

And much of his detective work was done through his herbalism.

So it is a wonderful story. I love Derek Jacobi as an actor.

He is one of my favourite actors.

And he really brings Cadfael to life.

Well, let's have a little look at this, then.

Mr Jacobi in Cadfael.

He is superb.

Brother Cadfael, Uncle died without absolution.

So do many. You mustn't let it fret you, child.

Penitence is in the heart.

Brother Cadfael first appeared in the medieval murder mystery

by author Ellis Peters in 1977.

He is a Benedictine monk,

but he's also a bit of a dark horse. As well as being a herbalist,

he has also been a soldier and a sailor.

It is this worldly knowingness

that Jacobi captures so perfectly.

It was a superb series. I have got the box set.

I have to give it a few years in between viewing,

because otherwise I remember too much who did it.

But there is always some new thing

that I spot whenever I watch Cadfael.

Now, how many times have you watched it, then?

-Your box set.

-My box set, I would think about three.

-Really?

-Well, has anything been taken?

-No, nothing has been taken.

How can you be so sure?!

So Derek Jacobi is the very definition of a class act.

And he shines in roles that need both brains

and a proper copper-bottomed pedigree.

He is, of course, the emperor

Claudius in the now legendary

adaptation of I, Claudius

in the 1970s.

He regaled us with King Richard II

in 1978,

before giving us his Hamlet,

Prince of Denmark, in 1980,

both in the BBC's equally legendary

television Shakespeare series.

In 2007, came Dr Who,

where he finally revealed his true

identity as, of course, The Master.

But even after all that, for many of us, he'll always be...Cadfael.

Search thoroughly before we report this to Hugh Beringar.

Report it? But there is no harm.

Master killed, the booth robbed, and now your caravan.

A very modern detective for a medieval time.

Um... No.

I think if you watch the series, he comes over as medieval,

with medieval values,

but a very moral man to whom faith means more than doctrine.

The treatment of human beings is supremely important to Cadfael.

As, as you saw in that clip, is justice.

You know, you don't want a solution, you want the right solution.

A common thief?!

Who steals nothing?

Your sense of justice, I think, comes through.

A lot of programmes in those days were about moral dilemmas, yeah.

Do you miss that?

Um, yes. I think, in a way, I do.

I think modern television is essentially trivial now.

I'm not saying all of it, I'm not so stupid as to say that,

but a lot of it is essentially trivial.

I don't watch soaps, for example,

with the possible exception of Heartbeat. I don't watch soaps.

Because it is effectively people

shouting at each other, swearing at each other, leading irregular lives.

And some of the very big dilemmas that face humanity,

they don't get a look in.

So, when you were younger,

was it always a career in politics or did you fancy other things?

I think when I was 11, Yuri Gagarin went into space.

And I think for a while every other child wanted to be an astronaut.

And I was inspired for some while to be a missionary,

because you used to get the heroic missionary tales.

And then, after that, I think an ornithologist because there was

somebody with Blyton's books who wanted to be an ornithologist.

And then, as I settled down into reality, for many, many years,

-I wanted to be a teacher.

-And so, eventually, you got into politics.

Eventually, I both aspired to and became a politician, yes.

Eventually.

Do you think in politics there is a considerable amount of acting

involved?

No.

In fact, I would be very worried if I thought there was a lot of acting.

Well, I mean, standing up there, performing...

-Well...

-To a degree.

You said it's performing, but what you are doing

when you are standing up there is trying to persuade people.

Mm-hm.

And therefore, if you believe what you are trying to persuade them

to believe, it is not acting, it's selling.

It is an act of selling, all the time.

And you're trying to persuade people to see things your way or to

persuade them that you've done something for a particular reason

or whatever it may be, or that the cause is a good one.

So, you are selling rather than performing.

Right, well, we're moving on now

to something that is very different,

with a different standard, and this is one of your guilty pleasures.

-Right.

-And it is a programme called Howards' Way.

-Oh, yes.

-Now, Howards' Way... We must now be talking '80s or '90s.

-Yeah.

And I only saw it... Cos I didn't have a television.

From the moment that I left home until the moment

that my mother came to live with me after my father's death...

So we're talking from probably the '70s to the '90s?

We are talking from the mid-'70s

right through...

And my mother came to live with me in 1999.

-I did not have a television in the house.

-Wow.

-Did you miss it?

-No, not at all.

-Not at all?

The only time I saw television

was when I went home at weekends.

Or on visits.

And Howards' Way was a great parental favourite.

When I was at home, we all watched this programme.

And I quite enjoyed Howards' Way.

But of course, I wasn't going home every weekend,

so I would miss sort of vast tranches of it.

And not very long ago, it came out as a box set.

And I thought, "I'll see the whole thing through,"

which of course, I had never done.

And so I got Howards' way, and I watched it.

And I managed to fill in all the bits I hadn't seen.

But it was a great favourite of my father's.

Of course, ships, boats, you know, the things he loved.

And it was a huge favourite of his.

And so we used to watch it.

And it was certainly must-see TV.

A bit raunchy?

Um...

When I saw it on the box set, I thought,

"Oh, I don't remember those bits."

But the bits I saw were largely sailing and that sort of stuff.

But, yes, there was a lot of THAT in it. Yep.

Well, um, hopefully, there is not a lot of THAT

in this little moment from Howards' Way.

Will we be partners?

Well, maybe...

I don't want a partner.

Maybe you got one.

-Since when?

-Since I first saw you.

And they're kissing.

Well, that's all right.

-People do.

-Hm...

And people speak to each other quietly.

You know, there is none of this awful confrontational shouting that

you get in modern drama.

And you can hear what they say, the diction is good.

So they are speaking quietly and they have good diction.

-Oh, how do I wish that were universal today!

-Yes.

Howards' Way launched in 1985

and was seen as the BBC's answer

to Dynasty or Dallas.

It may not have been as glossy,

but it did have characters who loved

money, schemed and slept around.

They just did it very near to,

or actually on,

not very big boats.

Howards' Way was on, I believe, when you first became a politician.

Was it a bit of light relief?

I think it almost certainly was round about that time, yes.

I imagine it was light relief.

I just remember it as when I went home,

when I visited my parents.

Which, once I became a politician, I did less and less often.

So maybe that is why major incidents in the series passed me by.

I think I'd better go.

Why? Mark is not coming back till later.

-I'm not sure what that is all about.

-No, nor am I. You needn't watch.

-Shall I advert my eyes?

-Yeah, you can look up to the ceiling.

HE LAUGHS

Maybe you can be sure the coast is clear.

-More kissing!

-Well, I'm not watching, so I wouldn't know.

-Really?

Shall I pressed pause then?

I thought you were going to press delete.

THEY LAUGH

-Well...

-Or fast-forward.

-Well, you've got the box set.

I have indeed got the box set.

When Howards' Way launched in 1985,

it was one of the many series

that made the '80s a vintage decade

for British television,

with a mass of classics

hitting our screens.

As the decade began,

Stephanie Beacham and chums

were just starting their long period

of suffering in the Japanese

prisoner of war series Tenko.

1981 also give us

one of our best-loved comedies

as Del and Rodney's

wheeler dealing began

on Only Fools And Horses.

By 1983, we were able to enjoy

Auf Wiedersehen, Pet

for the first time.

Not to mention the first instalment

of the genius of The Black Adder.

1985 saw the launch of a whole new

soap - EastEnders.

Doubters thought it would never work,

but it is now one of the cornerstones of British TV.

As the decade drew to a close,

two of Black Adder's brilliant

co-stars brought us another

barnstormer in the shape

of A Bit Of Fry And Laurie.

So if I could bring you on to Strictly, Strictly Come Dancing...

Yes?

-It was hugely successful for you.

-SHE LAUGHS

-Of course it was, yes.

-You...

I want to know how they approached you.

You got a phone call? You asked them?

They came to me every year

for five years, from 2004 till 2009.

Every year, Strictly came to me.

And every year, I said "No, go away. I'm not doing it."

But then two things happened.

The first was I saw John Sergeant doing it.

And the second thing that happened was I retired.

And suddenly, I no longer owed anybody any duty of time or dignity.

And I thought, "I can do it this year. I can actually do it."

So I did.

Were you nervous? You know, we already spoke about dancing.

I mean, was it something you were worried about?

Nervous is the wrong word

because I never expected to perform with any real credibility,

so it wasn't as if I went in there nervously wanting to win every week.

I didn't.

I thought, genuinely, that I would last about three weeks.

Suddenly, the whole thing took off because Anton had devised

these wonderful comic pieces for us.

And I was really enjoying it because it was a complete

release from responsibility.

I mean, nothing I did on that programme

could cause any ill to anybody else

apart from Anton's shins.

Strictly Come Dancing, other than Anton's legs and knees which

were bruised to goodness knows how much, I couldn't affect anything.

-Why, you kept kicking him?

-Well, accidentally. Accidentally.

But I hadn't a clue what I was doing.

-Obviously, you have fond memories from it.

-Yes. Yeah.

And you agreed. And thank God, it was such wonderful television.

And you know,

everybody who called themselves my friends said, "Don't do it.

"Don't do it."

They all said the same thing.

They all said, "You will lose your dig...

"You'll lose your gravitas." Well, actually, it was gravity

I had most of the problems with on Strictly.

But I suggest, "I will lose my gravitas, but what do I want it for?"

And I had understood that the day and the hour that Parliament was

dissolved that year

was the day and the hour that I ceased to be an MP.

I wasn't going to be some sort of honorary MP or an MP

but a retired one, just wasn't going to be an MP.

And therefore,

I had no obligation to take decisions as though I were still an MP.

And you know, I think that comes from my childhood

because one of the lessons of moving around so much was that one day

you'd be living in a house you'd lived in for three years,

having friends you'd known for that time,

going to a particular school,

belonging to a particular Brownie pack,

and the very next day, no staged transition,

no cosy preparation,

you'd be in a completely different part of the country

or on your way to a completely different part of the globe.

You'd be living in a new house, joining a new school,

joining a new Brownie pack and making friends again from scratch.

And I think the subconscious lesson of that is - when you have left

something, it's gone.

And I knew in 2010 I'd left Westminster, and it was gone.

But there is no denying that it took courage.

You are going out live to well in the region of 12 million people.

And I think it was a huge decision

and I think you made a lot of people happy.

-Well, I am glad I did.

-Oh, you did.

-I'm glad I did.

You made me and my family very happy.

This is Ann Widdecombe on Strictly Come Dancing.

Oh, that is the paso doble. That's the one where I get dragged.

MUSIC: Wild Thing by The Troggs

# Wild thing

# You make my heart sing

# You make everything

# Groovy... #

SHE LAUGHS

-Wonderful dancer, isn't he?

-He's brilliant.

-Great charisma.

# You make everything groovy

# Wild thing... #

Look at him, he's pulling me, yeah? Only way you can do it.

Look at him, he is actually turning me.

# Wild thing I think you move me... #

Oh!

Ann Widdecombe, that is...

That's movement.

SHE LAUGHS

# So come on and hold me tight... #

Oh, isn't that wonderful?

SHE LAUGHS

# You move me! #

That poor guy, look what he is having to move.

Is he cleaning the floor with you? I mean, what is he doing there?

I think he is just hoovering up.

Oh, bless you.

Does it... Do you... Did you enjoy the freedom?

I loved it. I loved it. As I say, I loved the absence of responsibility.

I loved the fun. I loved the audience's reaction.

As I say, I didn't expect it to last more than three weeks

when I agreed to do it.

I really didn't. And it all took off and...

Round about week five, I was thinking to myself,

-"Actually, I want to stay in this."

-Yeah, yeah.

And then week seven was the only week that we didn't get a standing

ovation, and I thought, "This is it, they're tired of us."

But they weren't.

We went on another three weeks after that.

And it was tremendous. I loved it.

Did you have an issue with the dress?

Um, I had an issue with the cape that they originally provided,

which was long and black.

Made me look like an advertisement for Scottish widows.

So I said, "I am not wearing that." You had a veto.

And I said, "I'm not wearing that."

So they came up with this little red thing instead.

But, I mean, the dress that I really remember was the one

I christened Big Bird. It was the one we used at Blackpool.

It was bright yellow!

And it was covered with all these yellow feathers.

And as soon as I saw it, I thought, "Big Bird!"

But no, certainly wouldn't want to wear any of them.

-No? You haven't got any in the wardrobe?

-No.

They all get sold in the United States.

-We don't get to keep them.

-Oh, really?

-Yeah.

-I wouldn't want to keep them.

-Still friends with Anton?

Still friends with Anton. Still friends with Craig, actually,

cos, of course, I went on to do

the live tour with Craig

and then two pantomimes.

And in between the pantomimes,

I was actually on at the Royal Opera House.

I mean, I can't believe what came out of Strictly Come Dancing!

-I mean, it is all pantomime with Craig Revel Horwood.

-Yeah.

I think he is... He is just a wonderful man.

-I've worked with him.

-He has got a huge sense of humour.

-Yeah.

But do you think for you possibly a career on stage would have

been an option?

I don't think so.

I had huge fun following Strictly, and I really enjoyed it,

and I enjoyed appearing on stage.

And I only ever once forgot a line.

But on the other hand, I often reminded Craig about his lines.

Of course, the great joy of pantomime is it is not Shakespeare.

-No, no.

-And if something goes wrong, you can quickly recover from it.

And so I did enjoy it. But I don't fool myself that I am an actor.

I am a performer, I am not an actor. There's a difference.

There is a difference.

What do you watch now? Going full circle.

What sort of things do you enjoy watching on TV?

I don't watch that much. I love Foyle's War.

And having had to watch the repeats,

I was delighted when they updated

Foyle's War and they introduced

some post-war stuff.

And that was great fun.

But if you are up for a little bit of escapism,

what might you watch that might cheer you up?

Oh, if I was in total escapism mode, then I watch Heartbeat.

I actually quite like it

as the end of the working day.

It comes on at 5.45.

And sometimes,

if I have been working all day, I think,

"Well now, why not a gin and tonic and Heartbeat?"

-Don't watch the news?

-I watch one news a day.

I used to have to keep up with the news every two hours.

I watch one news day, and I see the ten o'clock always.

-Because I think, "Well, that is going to have everything."

-Yeah.

And unless something happens during the night, you have got everything.

So certainly, I always do that.

I watch the ten o'clock news, yes.

And sometimes there is some remarkably good stuff on.

I mean, sometimes I actually will record if I'm not there.

And one such thing was The Lost Honour Of Christopher Jeffries,

who was a man who was falsely suspected of murdering Joanna Yeates.

Brilliantly acted, brilliant two-part piece.

And I really enjoyed that

and thought, "Yes, that is

"the sort of television I wish they would do more of."

But those things these days are few and far between.

But I am always on the watch out for them, always.

And if I want to be really light-hearted, well,

Back In Time For Dinner was quite good fun, for example.

And there is usually some...

some historical thing somewhere.

I don't like the big dramas like Wolf Hall.

I don't bother with that at all.

But actual history, very often on BBC 4, for example.

You have been so incisive,

so interesting. Have you enjoyed it?

I have thoroughly enjoyed it. And I...

Any time you show me Paul Of Tarsus, I will come.

I will come to the set any time

you're going to show me Paul Of Tarsus.

What we do want is to give you the choice to give a theme tune

for us to go out with this afternoon. So what would it be?

Well, it is one that we haven't discussed,

but we really must have it.

Dixon Of Dock Green.

Dixon Of Dock Green it is. Thank you.

SHE HUMS

You see, if I only had the ability to hear music.

THEY HUM

-That's it. That's the one.

-Something like that.

-That's the one.

You'll hear it for real now.

-My many thanks to Ann Widdecombe.

-Thank you.

-Thank you for watching.

We'll see you next time on TV That Made Me.

This is Dixon Of Dock Green.

MUSIC: Dixon Of Dock Green Theme