Episode 5 BBC Proms

Tonight we take flight with a symphony.

We pay our respects to war composers. And come to blows in

Battle of the Bands. It is time for Proms Extra.

Hello and welcome to Proms Extra, the show that digests the highlights

of the last seven days. You remember the Beatles? Tonight we have

civilians Vaughan Williams Butterworth and Ellington. --

civilians. It has been a week of results. The England women's rugby

team took the World Cup. Teenagers are celibate in their exam passes

and the England cricket team won a Test series. At the Royal Albert

Hall, everybody comes out on top. Just some of the Proms action taking

place in the other pole. In our studio I have three special guests.

First, a broadcaster and jazz singer who refereed the action at the

Battle of the Bands prom. She will not be singing the blues tonight, we

hope. It is Clare Teal. Next we have the conductor of the Istanbul

Philharmonic Orchestra, whose energetic display woad audience and

critics. We hope for some of the same tonight. -- Weld audience and

critics. It is Sascha Goetzel. And finally, one of the UK's most talked

about classical composers. Who else could be influenced by Led Zeppelin,

Miles Davis and write a successful opera about a Playboy Bunny? On

Mark-Anthony Turnage. opera about a Playboy Bunny? On

of you. Claire, opera about a Playboy Bunny? On

Proms. It was a banging gig? It was. I did not know we would be allowed

in but we were. And embraced warmly by the whole Proms team. That is

what you guys do so brilliantly, remind people that this music is for

everyone. Marc Anthony, for you it must be a rare summer after not

having ever world premiere? Yes, I enjoy the concerts. It is pretty

relaxed. I am never that relaxed! It was your first time at the Proms.

You made quite an impression. Have you recovered? No! How can I? How

can any artists recover from that? It is such an impact to your system.

It is more than giving a performance to audiences so warm-hearted and

energetic. People are still talking about it. For those of you eagerly

awaiting the chance to see the Istanbul thermite Orchestra on your

screens, you can see them on BBC Four on August 31. When it comes to

cultural and sporting battles, there have been a few. In the 70s, it was

Ahmed Ali and George Foreman. The 80s have Alexis and Krystle

Carrington. But those scraps do not compare to the fight that took place

in the Royal Albert Hall before a baying crowd. There may be

exaggerating a touch. It was one of the hot tickets of the Proms season.

That'll have the bands, refereed by Clare Teal. Shaun Lunt BBC Four last

Sunday. The music came from Count Basie and Duke Ellington. There were

two Proms bands, one led by James Pearson and the other bike juke

Windsor. -- juke winter. They call it a battle, really it was an excuse

for a damn good show? It was, yes. By the end I don't think anybody

wanted a winner. They did not care. It was so joyous. Using the music of

these two guys, what I wanted to try to get across to anybody who had not

heard big band music before, and this is a dying art form, something

that needs preserving and embracing and nurturing, but by having the

kind of driving relentless sort of swing of Count Basie, some of the

people who had not heard of this kind of music before, on the first

hearing, are drawn to the Count Basie side. But also in that hour

and a quarter I wanted to show just how much a big-band can do. And you

need Ellington. That is all you need! He was the guy who could do it

all. All those wonderful colours and textures, all the usual -- unusual

stuff, hopefully it was a winning combination. Let's have a quick look

at a little excerpt. Here are the Duke of Windsor band. It is time for

a Gregory Porter and jump for joy. # when you stop up in heaven, tell

that boy, jump for joy. # jump right in and jump for joy.

Jump for joy song by the brilliant Gregory Porter. And the Duke Windsor

Proms band. Claire, you said Ellington had it all. How, what,

quite? He was beyond definition. He stood alone. It amazes me, the

complexity of the harmonies and these crazy rhythms, how they can

just erupt from this one-man. He is just stunning. He could do it all.

In the case of someone like Ellington, a great American

composer, the band members played within four years and years and were

very special players. Each of them had an amazing personality. He had

an incredible gift to get them together and make it very special

and influence a huge amount of people. People take it for granted.

When people look at Louis Armstrong they say, he is an entertainer, but

he is one of the jazz magicians. He revolutionised jazz in some ways.

People remember wonderful world. Lots more to talk about. Let's have

another burst of music, this time from Count Basie.

Another great clip from the Battle of the Bands. Both bands really

going from it. It was phenomenal. What we wanted to do was when one

band finished, the next would start. There was never any silence. That

particular bit, Count Basie had that Britain when he went into battle. It

was nice we managed to get that in. We talked about how talented these

musicians are. Have you ever worked with the kind of musical tapestry

rehab and discussing? I was trained very traditional. When I came to

America and was studying there, I had to improvise. They told me I

should try it. I just could play my skills and that was it. I was not

improvising. They said I should try it. They learned me the scales. Then

I tried it and it felt fantastic. When I listened to it it sounded

awful. But they said to me that I sounded fantastic. I am sure they

were just complimenting me. It was terrible. It felt wonderful. It was

free. I think it is one of the greatest gifts to be so great in

your mind to improvise. Your performance was amazing. I didn't do

anything. I just think about. To it was amazing, really. Music always

goes to the heart. If music does not go to the heart, it is not really

good music. But in terms of all kinds of music, does not matter. Is

trans. If it is some heavy metal. It does not matter. If it goes to your

heart, it stimulates your inner system. And provokes reaction. Music

is the only art, I think, where there are no sense as possible. The

art which goes directly to our soul and triggers the emotions are from

places we don't even know exist. That makes it the only art form

doing that. There is no future, there is no past. It is infinity.

Music is connecting us. We are there. It is really about that,

right? Always more to talk about. What I want to remind people they

can still see the fabulous Battle of the Bands concert on BBC iPlayer.

Talking about all that jazz, Proms Extra asked ourselves, can classical

musicians freestyle? Can they improvise like the great jazz

masters? Julian Joseph explains who's line is it anyway?

One of the great aspect of improvising is that you don't know

what the moment is going to bring. Sometimes that moment is going to

bring stuff that even surprises you. It is similar to how we improvise as

human beings when we talk to one another. I am not looking at a

script, thinking, what do I need to say to you? I am thinking of the

words and putting them together in sentences. I am going to play a

whole Gershwin passage and then I am going to replay the same music,

improvising it, changed it to my way, if you like.

This is what Gershwin wrote. It is OK to have an instruction manual as

to how to play music. But the culture of writing music down in the

early days is like recording method. It is what the musician imbues these

tunes with It is what the musician imbues these

tunes that then is so fascinating and so magical. And then you can

replay at like this. I understand how the Harmony works,

how the melody works, and I can replay at in my own way. Every time

I would do it it would be different. The joy of playing and making

musical decisions of my own, that joy is amazing. The improvisational

art is nothing new. All of the musicians we admire through the

ages, be it Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, all of these

guys could improvise. So that kind of freedom exists in the great

music. The idea of the cadenza is an improvisational moment when the

orchestra stops and it is all about the soloist. And in silence, the

soloist then fills that sound. And they have got everybody's attention.

It is their chance to take everybody on their own journey. They can

display great virtuosity or it can just be about bringing everybody's

concentration into a particular aspect of the music.

There was a tradition where the musicians used to invent their own

cadenzas. But inventing them some have meant they wouldn't write it

out. At the end of a cadenza, the artist would indicate to the

audience where they would enter. They would

audience where they would enter. make it a subtle and musically

tasteful. The final statement in the orchestra can then happen.

tasteful. The final statement in the orchestra There is one musical

world, a lot of flavours and you should drink it all. Some might not

be to your taste, but some might be. How can you ask your musicians to

improvise? It is impossible. I did not grow up learning to improvise.

It is not part of any of the courses. Organists get upset because

there is a tradition with them. But a violinist, most composers, even

though they might not add knitted, there is an element of

improvisation. I started writing music through messing around on the

piano. It was a form of improvisation and that is how high

started writing music. It is still an element, but it is never taught.

When you get players, other than jazz players, they are scared

because they on Lott looking at a page of music. -- not. It is not

taught, it used to be something classical musicians did. Do you

think, Clare you are taught to improvise? It goes back to

confidence. Worrying about what people think, do you know what, let

go and have a go. All composition is at some point, improvisation. It

cannot happen. Do you improvise a lot when you are performing? Yes I

do. It is easier for the singer 's van players. Somebody like Ella

Fitzgerald, she would do something like, How High The Moon, she did it

for years. Listening to her performance, you can see how it

develops. You will hear the same thing time and time again, but it

gets longer and longer. Sometimes you can improvise and when you are

happy with that bit, you can lock it down and move onto bit, it is using

both styles. You are commenting what a conductor does when a soloist is

playing the cadenza and doing their own thing. It must be scary for you

as to what will happen next? Most of the time they are very kind to the

conduct is. They give them a hand with their cadenzas. But when the

end comes to their cadenza, the difficult part is to get in with the

right tempo. Sometimes the cadenza is lusting for a few minutes and the

soloist is going through the different rhythms, everything. Every

variation. It is fascinating and then you have to go back to the

initial motive. So when conductors, most of the time they take a big

breath before, just to get the pulse of the original music back in his

body. We will have been taken away, hopefully. On a different planet,

then back. It is interesting, I have always felt if I was a good enough

player and I do dabble, but behind closed doors, never in front of

anybody. I am talking about jazz, but I always felt if I had been a

good enough player, I would have done it, because I like improvising.

It is very lonely writing music. I am improvising and doing other

things and calculating things as well, but improvisation is part of

it. I would not have the guts in a way. I tell people off for not doing

it, but I know what they are feeling, it is very naked. Being up

there and I very much write my music out, I don't improvise in my pieces.

I am improvising in a slow way at home on paper. When I give it out it

is very technical and people have to get the notes right. I have always

felt I would like to be a great jazz player, but it is not going to

happen. I am a bit too old! It is interesting about what you are

saying about intuition and listening. Julian said in the film

about feeling it and listening with your ears. So if you take that to

the next stage, what is the point of sheet music? The Aurora Orchestra

did that last weekend for a performance of Mozart's Symphony

number 40. How daunting but it is for the musicians? We to learn this

from memory and it was a bit of a shock. It does feel very exposed. No

chairs, no stands, so it feels like you are on stage without your

clothes. There is an interesting shift during rehearsals when your

mental energy stops focusing on remembering what you are meant to

play and you play the shapes. It is wonderful to be able to look at the

conductor and get as much of the expression into the music as you

can. Some of the opinions of the... Anyway, that was a bad joke, talking

about memory. For the audience in the hall, it was a vibrant and

exciting experience, seeing those musicians released, if you like from

the tyranny of the music stand. Sascha, would you like your

musicians to focus our new all of the time? I have scheduled that next

year for the orchestra. I want to make it a dark experience, in the

term all visual possibilities of connecting to the music are gone. I

am still figuring out how to do that because they have to see my bat on

somehow. What about a glow stick. That is a bit weird? Listening to

music in the dark isn't? It will be very intense. I have scheduled that,

it has always been a dream of mine. The musicians are ready. They had to

trust. 80 to 100 people. We will do that and I am happy to tell you how

it went. But I will add a little point, it is not about the music

stand or no music stand, it is about the interpretation of the music. We

have to be careful being superficially attract to something.

Doing that as a project is fantastic, but music first, not the

outside triggers, it is not important. Clare, how is your

memory? Sorry? I do have memory issues. I can remember 85% of

lyrics. Hundreds of songs I have taken in as a kid, songs I had not

even sung yet. But I never know which 85% it is going to be. I have

an internal battle about worrying about perfection. Live music is

about being in that moment. Don't you worry if you are telling a story

in a song, you can miss a bit of a keyline? As a singer, I hear the

music first, it is always overwhelming and the lyrics come

later. When I decide to sing a song I will get inside the song and find

out the story. Often I will hear a piece of music that overwhelms me.

They could be about slaughtering puppies, I don't know. I have two

as, is it a good song? And then I will look at the lyrics. Even if you

have missed a few lines, there is still a connection and taking people

on a journey. Let's turn to the sounds of Jean

Sibelius and his symphony Number 5 which was shown on BBC Four last

Thursday. As a 50th birthday gift to himself Sibelius started to compose

it in 1915, and then spent the next four years revising it.

Here's an extract performed by the BBC National Orchestra of Wales

under Thomas Sondergard. of Wales under Thomas Sondergard.

Symphony number five. He rebuys but these over and over again, did he

get it right? The first version is strange. It is more adventurous.

Lots of different keys clashing. It you know the final version, you can

sense he is scrabbling around trying to get it right. It is not right, it

does not work at all. You can see why he rejected ideas and came up

with the final version. It is fascinating. I am not sure if we

should know that version, you can hear it has been recorded. He got it

right in the end. Sascha, the six years you were conductor of a

symphony orchestra in Finland? You had to get to know your soberly said

very well in that time? You have to know the Finnish culture very well.

At midnight, the horizon is like red sunshine. I could not speak -- sleep

at all because you have about four hours of night time. In the winter,

it is opposite. Sid bilious has a lot of connections to his people and

his country. The famous swansong. He was writing as he was sitting in a

chair and he seized his Swans circling around him. Although the

circle is not changing, there is a slight change each circle where he

changes the harmonies slightly. I think this Finnish national sound he

created is a reflection directly on the nature and culture.

It must be hard for composers coming after Sibelius. It is kind of that

frontier openness. It sounds like music of the people. It is

accessible. It is time for the cord of the week. We dissect well-known

chords in short bites, it is a welcome highlight and we do aim to

please. This is David. Cord of the week comes from the end

of Sibelius's Symphony number five in flat. I call it the drummer's

despair. We to go back to the beginning of the Symphony and we had

to sit in front of the cattle drums. They like to play what we call

perfect cadences. They are proper, perfect cadence courts. It gets

underway very nicely. But when the drummer tries his perfect cadence,

the horns get the cord wrong. Instead of laying E flat, he gets it

wrong. On the very last page the drummer has a last go. The orchestra

disagrees. So the drummer gives up. Then the orchestra plays the cord

they have wanted him to play all the way through. B-flat. Then they play

the cord of the week. When they have him properly despairing they take

pity and play the B-flat accord so he can join in. Then the orchestra

is a happy family at the end. Then they just played the two notes the

drummer wants to do. By the way, he is supposed to play early. Don't

shoot the timpanist. night on BBC Four there was a

concert by the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra which featured great works

by composers who fought and died during World War I. That is turned

to George Butterworth, who died at the Battle of the Somme. He composed

a large, very little survives. His psalms from a Shropshire Lad are his

best-known work. Shed some light on the background of this man and his

work? I had not heard it for awhile and I had never heard of the

orchestration of these songs. In someways I preferred the intimacy of

just piano. Roderick Williams is fantastic on his songs. But I think

the last song is very special. The form of it, with the different

voices and the way he captures that. There is something very melancholic,

very English in a way. Something I think melodically is very strong. It

really stands out. You do not know how it develops. It makes me very

sad when you hear his work. Let's have a listen to the BBC Scottish

Symphony Orchestra and Roger Williams performing.

# is my girl happy that I thought her to leave?

# and has she tired of weeping, as she lies down at ease?

# I shall lie down lightly, she lies not down to weep.

# your girl is untainted, be still my lad and sleep.

From the man taking centre stage, Roddy Williams, accompanied by the

BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra performing George Butterworth's six

songs from a Shropshire Lad. What did you make of his performance? I

thought it was breathtaking. His communication with the audience was

stunning. I thought it was faultless. I was absolutely drawn

in. It is not something I would usually listen to but I was there. I

thought it was absolutely mesmerising. What is it about that

set of songs that really does speak so powerfully, knowing what we know

about what was going to happen to George Butterworth? The poems are

very famous, they have never been out of print. There is a certain

baggage with that. There is a certain Englishness. They were very

famous at the time, a houseman. A lot of people have gone on to set

them. These are outstanding. There is a real ability to communicate,

and also the way he sets words. It is very skilful. What really was

striking when you listen to the performance is the way the music is

supporting the voice, and what the music speaks in the background, the

voice tells. That is always the big masterwork thing. Subconsciously

everything happens in the music. The voices telling the story but you

sense the emotion in the music. When I listen to this performance, this

will be performed in Istanbul pretty soon. It is really amazing. It

strikes you so much. It must be performed more. It just sums up from

a wildlife performance is about and how it can differ from a recording.

Having heard Roderick sing those songs on a recording, it is

wonderful. But seeing him, you get all different dimensions. Maybe it

was because it was the event of the Proms, or whatever the occasion,

people were feeling emotional. I think that added a whole new level

to his performance. Outstanding. We are going to stay with war composers

and that English song. We are going to turn to Vaughan Williams. He also

featured in the same Proms. Both Butterworth and Williams went to

war. Butterworth did not return. Williams composed a Pastoral

Symphony. You may think it was all about sheep and bucolic hills but it

was inspired by his time serving with the medical corps as an

ambulance driver. As time went on, it became a fitting epitaph for

those who lost their lives in that war. Letters have a listen. -- let

us. A pastoral symphony by Vaughan

Williams performed by the Scottish Symphony Orchestra. Mark, you do not

think beautiful scenes of countryside when you hear that, do

you? No, but if you go to the psalm or any of those First World War

graveyards, it is not like that. You cannot believe this actually

happened. It is must like all this stuff is under the surface. In a way

it's sort of reflects what happened in someways. -- some ways.

it's sort of reflects what happened this piece particularly. I love a

lot of Vaughan Williams symphonies but I particularly love this one.

There is something buried here and that is what is special. When did

you first hear Vaughan Williams? I think it was in my early teenage

years. Immediately I was taken away with the beauty of it. Especially

the symphony, as Mark said, it has some any intimate moments. You can

hear that he was -- you can hear little bit of Viennese music on

there. It is very delicate. It is a layer of something just touching the

music and going away. That is vibrating in the First World War as

well. It vibrating in the First World War as

symphony. As somebody who came to Vaughan Williams on Tuesday, I feel

a great, not knowing the back story as you do, I felt a tremendous peace

throughout a lot of that music. And again I could see a great landscape.

But I felt it was very reflective and allowed me space to think about

things. You don't do that in classical, I suppose ice Whatever

was going through his mind, he must have witnessed terrible stuff. A lot

of people who came back from the First World War, could not talk

about it. Never talked about. Vaughan Williams did have this

outlet of writing music about it. He did not have the job. He just rolled

his pieces. Claire, you have obviously picked up in that sense of

being a balm for Vaughan Williams themselves? It is very powerful,

very beautiful. Yes, I can feel the pain. But I do think there is a

sense of calm and peace there. It has been great talking to you. We

have to stop there. It is almost it for the night's show. Tomorrow night

on BBC Four, the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra makes its debut under the

watchful eye of Sir Andrew Davies. It features one of the most famous

pieces to come out of World War I. If you love Elgar's cello concerto,

you can catch the full concert tomorrow night at 7pm. You can watch

Proms every Thursday, Friday and Sunday. Radio 3 broadcasts every

prom live. You can find this episode and many of the works featured in

the programme, on the iPlayer. That is it for I -- for Proms Extra. I

will be back next week with Rebecca Miller. Wish me luck! What is the

collective noun for a if you can doctors? I don't know. Tui does if

you do or indeed if you have any questions? ! My thanks to my guests.

Clare Teal is playing the show I had accompanied by Grant Windsor on

piano and Simon Little on double bass. Here is get happy. Goodbye.

# BOP Doo Wah... # forget your troubles, come on get

happy. # you better chase all your cares

away. # shout hallelujah, come on get

happy, get ready for Judgement Day. # the Lord is waiting to take your

hand. # shout hallelujah, come on get

happy, we are going to the promised land.

# were heading cross the river # it is oh so peaceful on the other side.

# forget your troubles, come on get happy.

# shout hallelujah,, get ready. # forget your troubles, come on get

happy. # shout hallelujah get happy.

# before the judgement day. # the sun is shining, come on get

happy. # shout hallelujah, get happy, we are going to be promised

land. # we're heading across the river #

it is quiet and peaceful on the other side.

# forget your troubles, get happy. # get ready for your judgement day.

# come on, get happy. # shout hallelujah, come on get

happy. # get ready for the Judgement Day. #

sun is shining, come on get happy. # shout hallelujah, come on get

happy, # we are going to be promised land.

# it is so peaceful on the other side.

# forget your troubles, come on get happy.

# you better chase all your cares away.

# shout hallelujah, come on get happy.

# get ready, get ready, get ready...

# for the Judgement Day.