Episode 6 BBC Proms

Elgar. We moved to the sounds of Stravinsky and Ravel, and not one,

but two, three conductors join me in the studio. Get ready, it is time

for Proms Extra. Hello and welcome to Proms Extra,

which reflects on the highlights of the past seven days. Tonight, we

have show stoppers, we have Stravinsky's Petrushka, Ravel's all

Aero, Elgar's Cello Concerto. -- Bolero. In the week that saw Kate

Bush returning after 35 years, there has been no time for a breather

here. Look out what was going on inside

the Royal Albert Hall last week. In the Royal College of music here, I

have three conduct is joining me. First, she made her debut this

season conducting the BBC concert Orchestra for a range of sports

themes including Match of the Day. It is Rebecca Miller. The next

guests discovered a love of music at the age of seven when he watched it

last hand through his hometown in Denmark. 20 years later, he was a

maestro and he is the principal conductor now of the National

Orchestra of Wales. -- a brass band. And our final guest began

conducting in Ukraine at 13. He won the Royal conductor of the year

prize last year for his work on the Symphony Orchestra and it is his

fifth season with them. Dorset has never been the same! It is Kirill

Karabits. And to players out is rising superstar Leonard who

performed with the BBC film Monica orchestra. Welcome to my sofa, three

maestros. I do not know the collective noun! -- for Monica

orchestra. It is a very unusual format, I have not been on the same

sofa with two other colleagues. How often do you meet up with other

conductors? Very rarely. When I do opera, I sometimes meet colleagues.

And that is it? This is a wonderful experience. Rebecca, the sport Proms

was fantastic, great fun, new people in the audience who had not been to

a ROM before and you got a Mexican wave. That was memorable! -- had

never been to a Proms before. The orchestra were also playing and

standing and waving. It was an amazing atmosphere, the Proms is an

amazing atmosphere, it feels intimate. Even though it is a

massive hole. Such anticipation and excitement -- a massive hole. You

conducted two this year, you are becoming a regular. We loved it

again this year. We were there for two days, the 11th and the 12th of

August. Doing mainly the two Scandinavian uses. That was an

amazing atmosphere -- Scandinavian pieces. I do not know if you have

been called a veteran, Kirill Karabits, at your debut came in

2009. Yes, I cannot say a lot about that evening because I was so

nervous. But one thing I do remember is the heat and when you go on

stage, the physical feeling of people and the heat from the hall.

But then the second time, it was easier. And the third time it was

even easier. I could completely relax. And enjoy yourself? Yes,

because there was such a enjoyment. I was really scared the first time,

no wonder! There is a lot of mystery about being gay conductor and

because we have three of you, we had to get questions from members of the

audience -- a conductor. Stand-by those later. When it comes to

challenging opinions and working on audience, to a lot of people, Daniel

Barenboim is the maestro. He together with the Palace -- with a

Palestinian or Christer brought together West-Eastern Divan

Orchestra -- orchestra. Containing people from the Israeli-Palestinian

divide performing together. Here they are performing all Aero. --

Bolero. Conducted by Daniel Barenboim, that

was Bolero by Ravel performed by West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, is

that an approach you would take? Letting the orchestra get on with

it. Probably. This piece does not need a conductor who beat. Mainly

only at the end. Most of the conducting is encouragement. They

are really exposed. Musicians are nervous so you have to do something,

which makes it easier for them. That is the best you can do. They can all

hear and they play in tempo. These little things, you can encourage.

You cannot rehearse that either, you can encourage this. A lot of people

would say this now drum is the conductor setting the beat. -- the

snare drum. You are a percussionist, do you have a relationship with the

percussionist? I can tell you that the first real nerves I had was

playing this little bit of the opening for the European Union youth

Orchestra in 1989. That was the most nerve wracking you can imagine. So

you did the drum? To play so soft at the beginning is very hard. It is

very clever he put the drum so close in the middle of the orchestra, it

makes it much easier. How would you approach this because it is an

extraordinary work? It is so simple but it is the pacing from beginning

to end which is so difficult. And all these different solo

performances. It is a 15 minute crescendo which is very difficult to

pace. And everything can make a big difference because so little is

going on. One little thing turns into something enormous. I think

that approach... In a sense, he makes the crescendo. But if you

watch carefully, he is very involved. His eyebrows going just at

the right moment. -- are going. As a conductor, you have to save things

for one particular moment because if you do too much all the time, that

moment could get obscure. He just moves his head at that one moment.

It gives them confidence. The spot we heard is one of my favourites.

You hear the themes so many times but he is playing in E major and

grams major which is a solo voice on the organ -- and grams major. --

grams. That is a wonderful note. The fluids are just... It makes you sit

up? -- the flute is just... We have been talking about the showmanship

of Daniel Barenboim, this is another example.

Daniel Barenboim observing his orchestra from a different position

inside the Royal Albert Hall. Do you think showmanship as part of the

role of the conductor? We have all experienced a revolution of the idea

of a conductor in recent years. People still have an idea that the

conductor controls but more and more, I personally and I think all

of us, realise that the most magical things that can happen in a concert

is orchestra, conductor and/or -- and audience. The conductor is one

element of the triangle. It is not the centre. You can turn and the

orchestra becomes the centre. So it is just one element. And I very much

like the expression that conducting is about listening. So sometimes,

you can make things happen by not doing anything. Because if you do

something, you can just disturb. We know it. You just do not need to do

anything because things are there already. Your role is to step act

and not do anything, just observe. -- step back.

wonderful hall so that's a wonderful idea. You can still see the concert

conducted by Daniel Barenboim on the BBC iPlayer, so do have a look at

that. I have a few BBC iPlayer, so do have a look at

that. I questions now for you from the audience, I hope you are ready

for that they come every year to watch you guys, so let's have a

listen to what they want to know. OK, ready? Here we go. This is a big

question. What do the hand gestures mean? I would ask, how you are able

to hear and direct everybody? What makes a conductor's baton so much

better than just using a pencil? And you're going to talk about that

later sell at me just ask you, that question about hearing and directing

at the same time, how do you do that? It's interesting because you

have to be in three time zones at once. You have to be preparing for

what's coming next, also have to be in the present to be listening and

enabling what's going on and you also have to learn from what just

happened. If this mistake, if you've made a mistake, brush it off and

move forward, so you have to be in three places at once and also

stepping back and listening, and balancing being involved and letting

things happen organically as well. Is that something which comes with

practice? When I think about it, many times, while conducting, I

actually realise I'm not listening. I get so excited. I continue

conducting my own music instead of listening. You always have two but

pay barrier. -- you have to put a barrier. I tried conducting once,

and now, to my endless shame, you're going to see my first attempt.

Come on. Like a saga tours tea dance. She's milking the emotion.

Imagine cows udder is, milking! Someone teach beware the accelerator

pedal is next time. You're making it worse, don't. It was such an

interesting exercise to stand in front of an orchestra and realise

you had to really do something you've never done before and they

weren't going to respond to words or bad singing full subcutaneous have

to do it with gesture. There was a lot to learn, right? Can you

remember the first time you stood in front of an orchestra? Yes, I can. I

mostly followed, I think. Lots of things I just couldn't achieve. And

musicians wouldn't take me seriously, of course, which is

another interesting aspect, how do you actually get the respect? A lot

comes from the respect and not just following what you do with your

hands. Can you remember the first time you conducted, how you felt? I

was quite old. I had a wonderful experience with the European

Community youth Orchestra and that was really what inspired me to work

with some great people. And that's one I decided I wanted to try and

get deeper into the schools, and that was the reason. Did you stand

in front of a mirror and learn hand gestures? No, I don't do that. I

came across the opera in Copenhagen after them for advice. A Russian

conductor irony adored. He showed me a few things. You have to be in

front of the mirror, next to him and he showed me a few gestures which

would be good, just to open up the sound image. That's interesting,

sound image also how can you describe that? Again, one of the

questions was, why do we need baton? Why do you use a pencil? It's

interesting to have something in your hands, as if you lift and

energy. Not necessarily thinking about what your fingers can do. The

idea of conducting is interesting, of course, because he also removes

his hand in the small electrical gestures as well. But sometimes,

when I conducted without a baton, I think of it as energies or gestures

like sculptures within the hands, sometimes. As if you move the sound

and energy. You are talking about use your hand or your baton. A prom

was conducted earlier this season using what I'm pretty sure was a

cocktail stick. Let's have a look. So he was conducting with a tiny

baton but in the studio we have this enormous baton which we are honoured

to have. It is led from the Royal Academy of music, where Sir Henry

went. The last baton used before he died. I'm not touching it because

it's very precious. What is the difference? You have your favourite

batons here? What is the difference between that and the more standard

ten inch or so? It's quite an old one. I have been using it for at

least two years now. It has markings. What were you doing with

it? Beating the timpanist? Whatever makes you comfortable and you feel

like your hand is becoming longer, that is what is important. As a

student, we had an exercise of drawing with a baton, so the sound

actually we could feel it at the end of the baton rather than in your

fingers. It is all about making your hand longer, which makes better

communication with musicians. Do you get sentimental about it? I found

mine on the Orkney Islands. I walked through the streets left and there

was a music shop and I thought it looks OK. It used the same night for

the concert and I have had it since. I like the fact it is a little

thicker. For me, it's just easier to see. I've also used a smaller but I

go back and forwards. All sorts of different ones. I don't like them

being that big, though. Do you think that was just what was fashionable

at the time? It, we was, yes. Mine is made of one piece of wood and I

like it because it is very, very light and it is continuous. I don't

like a big break here. It should be a continuation of your arm, so it is

whatever... The weight of it, some of them have heavier handles, I

don't like it, being very heavy in my hand because it takes away from

the subtleties you can make with a baton. It's like which pencil do you

use when you write? Long ones, it doesn't matter. It was interesting,

wasn't it, watching him with that tiny cocktail stick and yet, as you

say, it makes little difference to the orchestra sound because they are

watching his eyes and hands. In this case, they were watching his

cocktail stick. Is it because they want to watch because it's such a

tiny stick? It is for his feeling in his hands. I guess it just feels

good. If you conduct without baton, you have to do work out what you

were going to with your fingers. It can look awkward and tense. Perhaps

it is to give a focus to your hand and give shape to it. He feels that

the shape he wants. Left to drop the batons for now for the one of the

main talking points this season have been the international orchestras

and last week the Seoul Philharmonic Orchestra made their debut.

Accompanying them was a gentleman who was the worlds leading soloist

it comes to playing. This instrument is a Chinese mouth organ. It doesn't

do it justice. Always keen to learn, we found out that in a classical

music world, a little bit of hot water can go a long way. I don't

like this East meets West concept but a kind of mixture of different

kinds of instruments, it doesn't matter from where it comes from.

This is a very old Chinese instrument. In the old time, we can

play more than ten notes together. you can play all the traditional

keys. We were playing in the Philharmonic and the Queen of

England came to China and we would play the music. I open my

instrument. You can see the bamboos. You can play almost 36 notes at the

same time, so you can make any kind of notes combination. It is

extremely interesting for a composer.

notes and three notes and the harmonic structure is becoming more

and more complex. I wanted to play with this simplicity and complexity.

What is very impressive is the range. I have to constantly ask the

orchestra to play louder too much this relatively small instrument and

so it is very exciting. The reads before I played, we need to make

them warm, so I have two put in hot water. If they are cold, I cannot

really play at. -- it. The most important thing is the

sound. I would describe this sound as a kind of silky bamboo sound. I

love it. I am greatly looking forward to

having this concert tonight. It is always very special, this occasion,

to have a concert in the Royal Albert Hall with a six or 7000

audience. Fascinating to see that instrument being taken apart and the

hot water. If you're dealing with an unfamiliar instrument like that, how

do you cope as a conductor? If you're not familiar with it? How do

you learn? Like any soloist, there's a certain amount of getting to know

your period, very short period, sometimes longer. I have worked with

a Chinese orchestra before and I met him who was playing the solo, and I

had no idea what the volume it was. But then, it was like a Chinese

lute, basically. But they are very quiet, like guitars. This was quite

loud. Really, very, very powerful, as an instrument. So, actually, when

you are studying the score, and trying to get to know the

instrument, you wonder about balance and it was mentioned in that video

that he had to ask the orchestra to play louder because the instrument

had a lot to say. Still to come on Mac programme, more music but next

we're going to turn to Elgar and now we're going to hear an exit now with

the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra making their debut. Conducted by

veteran Andrew Davies. Melbourne Symphony Orchestra. What

is he like as a performer? He has a very strong personality. So as a

conductor, you have to understand first of all what he wants and then

help him to achieve that with the orchestra. He is very particular

because he is very clear about some of the ideas he expects the

orchestra to do and as a conductor, you have to make this happen. Let's

talk about Elgar, you have a very well-known piece like this and

presumably the conductor and the soloist and the audience have a

clear idea of how this should sound, how does that work? This is why we

need to stand outside. Continuously, together, we need to

find new ways of doing the same pieces. When I started conducting, I

thought, yet another Beethoven symphony, done it so many times.

That is the hard thing, to keep serving it as if we love it as dear

as we did the first time we heard it. It is also interesting when you

repeat the peace. The Elgar Cello Concerto, every time I have done it

and I have done it a number of times, every time, I went to another

level. A level of what I did not want to hear. And almost becoming a

bit British! That peace has something and the more you know it,

the more you expect certain things -- that musical piece. And now I

think I pretty much no how I like it. I pretty much -- I pretty much

do know. Let's see what the conductors make of Chord of the Week

where David Alan Norris leaders to new horizons. -- David Owen Norris.

Do you recognise it? It comes out of an extraordinary melody that set

Edward Elgar hallucinated, ground from an anaesthetic. -- when he was

coming round from. It is despair that falls down six notes and Elgar

plays the same shape again. And again, a third time, six notes. The

Cello Concerto. And as we reach home, Elgar obsessively starts it

all over again. What court can he use to which that aching emptiness?

-- what chord can he use to bridge. Six notes so the melody has created

its own accord -- chord. That is why the first time you hear it, it is

not accompanied, it has no chords. Until we have heard the melody,

there is no chord. The horizontal becomes the vertical.

And you can catch that again next week. Fascinating about the opening.

Is that something you work at constantly to get that balance

between the different sections of the orchestra? Exactly, the way he

said it. To get the balance also when you study. Do not spend too

much time analysing because you cannot go into all of the bits. It

is fascinating the way he takes out interesting things. Last Thursday,

Stravinsky was the order of the day, specifically, Petrushka. We are

going to have a look at the National Youth Orchestra.

Petrushka, a ballet about a puppet that we just had the National Youth

Orchestra. They were performing Stravinsky's Petrushka.

Ground-breaking work. Yes, and from a practical point of view, it is

more difficult than other musical pieces. It requires from a conduct

terror solutions. -- conductor. In Petrushka, you need solutions and

unique to say how you want things played. -- and you have to say. To

step in on that is impossible. No! The exposed solos, it is actually

more technically difficult. Very challenging for a Youth Orchestra?

Yes. The transitions are far harder than any of his other compositions.

There is a trumpet solo, it is fantastic. The way Stravinsky scores

this. The barrel organ is fantastic. There is one type out of order that

is higher. -- pie. You are just missing a monkey on the side! Than

might have been a monkey! We could not see it. I know you all work with

youth orchestras and there must have been a certain energy to your lives.

Yes, it is a challenge because when you meet for the first rehearsal,

you cannot imagine in one week you will have a performance. Some of

them have never played in an orchestra so there is an element of

mystery and how you create an orchestra in a short period. How do

you teach them, how'd you inspire them? Are you a teacher, a friend? I

remember somebody once saying working with the National Youth

Orchestra of Great Britain was taking -- was like taking a dose of

vitamins C and it would keep him going for the rest of the year --

vitamin. These people are playing a piece for the first time and it is

very exciting. Huge pressure on myself because I want them to have a

good experience, I do not want them to hate it. It is amazing. I think

you are a teacher. In the respect that you are there to inspire them.

You are giving them a first experience to take away for the rest

of their lives. That is almost it. Tomorrow night, you can see last

week's guest making his Proms debut. No other words are needed.

Philarmonic Orchestra tomorrow night. And as if you needed

reminding, but I will remind you, you can watch the Proms every

Thursday, Friday and Sunday on BBC Four. And you can find this episode

and many of the works featured in the Proms Extra collection on the

BBCi player. That is it, I will be back next week for the final show in

this series. My thanks to my guests. Rebecca Miller, and Kirill

Karabits. Accompanying the piano tonight, this is Leonard

Elschenbroich. Goodbye!