UKIP Wales Cymru's Nathan Gill Ask the Leader

What Do You Want For Your Schools, Your Jobs, Your Future? This

Audience here in Swansea has the questions, but will they get the

answers? Welcome to Ask the Leader. We are live at the National

Waterfront Museum in Swansea for the second in our series Ask the Leader

ahead of the Welsh Assembly election on May 5th. Our audience is a

mixture of party voters and undecided voters. You can join us on

social media... Let's welcome the leader of Ukip in Wales, Nathan

Gill. And our first question this evening

comes from James. Did political correctness kill the early debates

on immigration? Yes, I pretty much think it did. Throughout my

political career, which has only been 11 years, people have felt able

to shout words like racist at me, despite the fact that our

immigration policy is actually the fairest immigration policy of all of

the parties. If you look at the EU, EU basically says, if you are from

the EU, you can come into Britain. But we will discriminate against

people from India, from Africa and from all other nations. What we say,

very simply, we want an Australian, points-based system, a meritocracy.

If you have the skills that we need, you are more than welcome to come

here, regardless of where you come from. We do not care about your

colour, ethnicity or religion. If you have the skills that we need,

you are welcome to come here. That is our policy. Are there too many

immigrants in Wales? If you look at the local development plans all over

Wales, where we were having foisted upon us this mass house-building

approach, turning villages in the Vale of Glamorgan into completely

unrecognisable areas, I would say that unfortunately, it has been too

fast and too much. Too many immigrants in Wales? Listen, 630,000

people came into Britain last year. That is a city the size of Cardiff

and Swansea and a little bit more. One of those people, most of them

are adults, need cars, houses, jobs. Let's look at the figures. 6% of the

population of Wales was born outside the UK. Is that fair? Is it too

many? If you are unable to get a house, unable to get a job, then I

think you would say yes, absolutely. The gentleman in the middle. May I

quickly ask, is Ukip a racist party, to put it bluntly? Thank you for

asking that. Of course we are not. Racism is where you believe that

your race is superior to another race. I do not believe that in the

slightest. I have been to Africa, to the Americas, around Europe and

China. I do not believe that we have more of an any other nation. In

fact, whenever I go to other places in the world, I am amazed at how

much we can learn from them. But is not racism, it is the

acknowledgement that we are part of a larger world, but the reality is

just to say that we want to protect our borders. That is not racist.

This gentleman here, and then the gentleman at the back. I was under

the impression that these programmes were being held in advance of the

watches the elections. This topic, along with other topics discussed

last night such as disability benefits and electricity prices,

they have no relevance upon the National Assembly. They are outside

of its competence. The BBC has an informative role to play. It can do

better. OK, we are looking at immigration as a key part of the UK

policy. Actually, let me answer that. These are the questions that

have come in. On Monday, there was an opinion poll which went out, and

one question asked to people about the Welsh Assembly elections was,

what are your priorities for the watches the elections? Number one

was the NHS. Number two was immigration. Even though I agree, it

is not devolved. The gentleman at the back. Is it possible to

reconcile with the UK narrative, saying that you are not

anti-immigrant, when actually, you are saying, immigrants are coming to

steal our jobs and take our benefit. -- Ukip narrative. So how do you

reconcile that, because you are making them an enemy? No, of course

we are not. If you have the skills that we need, you are more than

welcome. My wife is an immigrant. I am not anti-immigration, believe you

me. Let's go back to the question. Do you feel that political

correctness has stifled this debate? Definitely. I am 27 now and I have

noticed since the early 2000s, either the right or the left have

been trying to control one side of the debate of you get parties like

Ukip who come to the fore and say, we need to look at it in another

way. They then start throwing out terms like racist, being bigoted...

As far as I'm aware, the Ukip MEP Steven Woolfe, whose grandfather is

an African-American, he has been called an uncle Tom, a fake black, a

coconut. I myself in the 2014 elections had the word racist

scribbled on my front door. Let's get back to the immigration policy.

Flush out this points system. You used to run care homes. You have

spoken about employing Eastern European people and people from the

Philippines. Would they be allowed into Wales under your points system?

Well, all you have to do is to demonstrate as an employer that you

need somebody with certain skills, and that through advertising and

trying to get people locally to work in that job, you were unable to do

it. That is what I was able to demonstrate the Home Office and so I

was able to employ people from the Philippines. I think it is

incredibly impressive that you take a question which is not about the EU

and turn it into being about that within five seconds. More

importantly, if you have problems with EU migrants taking English

jobs, while your care home companies employed a few dozen Polish and EU

migrants on the minimum wage, living in bunk houses, paying rent of ?50 a

week, do you think it is fair that the company you run took jobs of

English people? Do not believe everything you read in the

newspapers. My company employed only three foreigners who were brought in

on work permits who were from the Philippines. The rest of it is made

up. They were employed on the same age as all of the indigenous staff.

Moving on to the second question. I am a retired teacher, and I know it

is a myth that selection produces the best results for all pupils.

Will you explain to us why you want to bring back grammar schools? OK. I

am a father of five children, and I understand completely that we are

all different. Some children may develop quickly, some may be slower,

they all have different desires. Over the last 30 years, we have seen

social mobility in this country going backwards. It has not

continued or improved, it has gone backwards. We believe strongly that

those students, those young people who have strong vocational desires

and abilities, should be noted with that. We would like to introduce a

partnership with universities to give those people, those children

with those desires, the ability to do that, without making it seem that

they are second-class somehow because it is more vocational than

academic. And those children who are more academic, and sit exams, kind

of like the old 11 plus, only what we suggest is that some people

develop academically later in life, so we would not just have an 11

plus, we would allow throughout the last year's of secondary school, to

continue to be able to decide between vocational and more academic

studies. One size does not fit all, in anything in life. One point from

the gentleman there. After Welsh education was ranked the worst in

the UK following the 2013 tests, what will you keep to to improve the

quality of education in Wales? Thank you that is brilliant. One of our

flagship things is to bring back grammar schools, honing the skills

of people and to promote them and push them to have the kind of ethos

where people want to go into things, whether it is vocational or

educational, and people are not looking down on them, making them

think that if they do not go to university, they are a failure. I

never went to university and I'm sure many people here did not. Makes

no difference. We want to see things like more investment in the Stem

subjects, science, technology, engineering, mathematics and

medicine. We would make those Stem subjects free for pupils to study

here in Wales, and we will be able to fund that by stopping giving free

grants to people who go and to fund that by stopping giving free

England. We will give them alone instead. Let's go back to the

question on grammar schools break I used the word myth advisedly. I do

not know of anybody other than populist political parties trying to

find parties and right-wing think tanks trying to promote an agenda

who believe anything that you have just said. For example, social

mobility does not depend entirely... Nothing in relation to social

mobility can be pushed back and blame on comprehensive education.

No, education is vital throughout our lives. We should be a nation

which pushes and encourages education throughout our entire

lives. Social mobility has a lot more to do with the inequality in

our society at the moment. But I think you will find that with a

grammar school education, you have a lot more chance of getting up that

ladder. The lady at the back. Hurriedly, English children have

more spend per head on them in education. -- currently. Will Ukip

try to narrow that gap? Obviously, there is not a level playing field,

and we have to compete with everybody. They have more spend per

head so they are at a distinct advantage compared to our Welsh

children. Absolutely and is it not bizarre that we have a Welsh

government, with a huge budget, which decided that it is not matter

that according to the last figures, 2012, that the English students were

getting ?604 per head more than in Wales? Let's just nail that, then...

You would ring-fence education? We would increase it. Would you

ring-fence health spending? On certain aspects within health

spending, like for instance with mental illness, we want to increase

it and then ringfenced it, because it is a huge issue. You would spend

more on education and on health, so where would you cut? One area that

we would is, ?78 million, currently ringfenced for climate change

projects. To me, that seems absolutely bizarre. That we

projects. To me, that seems trying to stop, like King Canute,

the trying to stop, like King Canute,

money would be better spent on our NHS and education. Next question,

please. I would like to know, what are you doing to help protect our

environment and society from the effects of climate change? And also

to promote a green and sustainable way of living? Very timely,

wonderful, thank you. Do you believe in climate change? I am not an

expert, as I'm sure you will all agree. But do you believe in climate

change? The climate has been changing from day one. Look at the

mini ice age is, in my own lifetime, I have seen huge changes. Is it

man-made, do we have a role in it at all? I would be very, very sceptical

that man could change the climate. All we are doing is literally, a

bunch of people, King Canutes, thinking that we can change the

tide. The most expansively is of legislation in British history was

not the First World War or the Second World War, it was Ed

Miliband's Climate Change Act, which has pushed senior citizens and

widows into fuel poverty... So you would do nothing about climate

change? No. We do nothing on climate change? I personally, no. Let's hear

from the gentleman at the front. So you disagree with scientists,

trained in universities, who actually know things about all of

this? You disagree with science? I will just give you the quote on

that. The intergovernment panel on climate change found that scientists

are 95% certain that humans are the dominant cause of global warming.

95% of which are scientists? The ones who are paid by the UN to do

this research. And how many of them are scientists actually on climate?

Not many of them. Do your own research, don't take my word for it,

which I know you will not! Do your own research and find out for

yourself. We have got brains for a reason. Use them. I would like to

say that I have heard Ukip politicians say some crazy things in

my life. This is by far the craziest...

Let's hear from somebody... I take that as a compliment, but there we

are. Good on you. We should all come to our conclusions because you say

you don't believe scientists, or that is crazy. You don't believe

preachers? These people have agendas, too. Come to your own

decisions, don't be a sheep and follow the crowd. He is entirely

right in what he said. Thank you. And because I have come to my own

conclusions, it doesn't mean you have to call me a denier and all of

these different bizarre terminologies that get thrown

around. Let's take a question from the front here. There have been

numerous studies by academic facilities across the globe, there

have been documentaries, it is taught in our schools, I learnt this

in comprehensive school, to stand there and deny climate change is

real and is destroying our world is not just irresponsible, it is

ignorant and false. Hold on, at what point did I say there was no climate

change? I never said that. I said that as far as I'm concerned, it

isn't man-made. All of the things we are doing to stop climate change

right now in Britain, in one week the rest of the world is negating.

It's a waste of our resources and money. Places like Port Talbot are

in sheer trouble right now because of the Climate Change Act and the

huge amount of money that Ed Miliband and Labour stuck on the

cost of fuelling meaning Port Talbot has to pay 50% more for its

electricity than France. Does France believe in climate change?

Absolutely. Why are they charging less for their electricity than we

are in Wales? Ridiculous. It is pure ignorance to deny we are

responsible for climate change. What makes you think it is not doing that

to climate and to the environment at large? There are huge cycles within

climate, huge cycles and weather isn't climate, and who knows what

cycle we are in. Let's face it, in medieval times, when they had the

mini Ice Age they probably thought they were creating it by burning

dung. Thank you. Let's move on. The next question comes from Stephen

Havard. Do you believe the M4 relief road will bring much-needed work to

the steel industry in Wales? Absolutely. The problem we have got

there is, it is illegal for the Welsh Government to say let's use

Welsh steel in the production and the manufacturing of that relief

road. It has to go out to tender and it has to go to the cheapest source

possible. That is the law. So, if we are expecting the Welsh Government

to break the law, which if I was the First Minister, I would, I would

break the EU law and I would say, yes, everything that we do in Wales

must be built with Welsh steel. I don't agree with the ?1 billion,

that is an entire year's capital budget spent on one route. I agree

with the blue route. That is the ?1 billion project, the whole new

motorway. You favour the blue route, is that right? That's correct. The

cheaper version? The cheaper version. What would be your budget

for that? The cheaper version is ?400 million. We would save ?600

million which we can use on other capital projects like the A55 in the

north, which gets forgotten about, it was built on the cheap, it

doesn't have a hard shoulder, the A470, which I drive up many a time.

It is easier, is it not, to go into England and come down the motorway

than it is to go through Wales? That is a disgrace. Let's look at the

steel element to this. Would you encourage, if you were in power in

the Welsh Government, more investment, part nationalisation,

would you take over the plant. What would be your plan alongside the UK

Government? No, I don't believe in nationalisation. Why should we bail

out one of the biggest companies in the world, Tata, with taxpayers'

money, when the problems that we have with the steel industry are not

going to go away? You would leave it to the market? Well, what I would do

is, if I was the First Minister, I would immediately reduce the

business rates to zero which our First Minister, and you can ask him

later on, cannot do. Again, EU law, state aid... Would you intervene in

any way other than business rates? With what money can the Welsh

Government intervene in this? This is a problem that's been caused by

three separate governments and four if you include China. We have a

major problem with Chinese steel being dumped on us and yesterday

Andrew RT Davies said we don't want to put tariffs because that would

cause a trade war. Wake up, we are in a trade war. America, 30% tariffs

on Welsh steels. China, 60%. The EU, 9% tariffs on cheap subsidised

Chinese steel. I have been a fourth generation steelworker myself. I

think it is disgusting how Welsh Labour have not supported us at all.

Basically, how would you reverse that? I would take down the EU flag

that they are flying with pride in the Senedd and I would say the only

thing I could do is reduce the business rates to zero, that is ?10

million, though, that is a lot. Would you match the ?50 million

offered by Welsh Government? If we could find it. Would that be one of

your cuts? No. If it was there, it would... Of course, one of the

things we are saying is, we are looking at the finances in the same

way you are able to look at the finances of the Welsh Government. We

don't have any insider information because we don't AMs in there. We

will be able to go in there and find out what they are doing with our

money, what the waste is and find ways we can improve. A few points

from the audience. Yes? Nathan, we are not bailing out Tata, they are

selling Port Talbot and their other interests. Isn't it in the national

interest that the Government take a share? It is absolutely integral, of

course it is. I totally agree. I note that last year, our foreign aid

budget, which overspent ?172 million. That would keep Tata going

for six months. How is it that our British Government is able to find

money to overspend ?172 million and cannot find a penny to help Tata?

You said you wouldn't intervene on principle here, would you? The

question is, what is the point if we cannot effect the cheap Chinese

subsidised steel being dumped on us... Would you be an... No. You

wouldn't intervene? I wouldn't intervene. Would you want the UK

Government to intervene on pensions, for example? So, why is it that

Tata, the wealthiest company in the world, is able to off-load all of

its debts and problems on to us, the taxpayer? They should be made to pay

for the problems that they themselves have allowed to be

created as well. Right. I find it funny na the Government found money

to bail out the banks but when the British steel industry... They can't

find any money for us. It is a disgrace. The banks made that money

back so that is different to the uncompetitive steel industry. The

steel industry is uncompetitive... We have to make our steel industry

competitive again. OK. The only way you will do that is by getting out

of the EU on 23rd June so we can absolutely set our own barriers. OK.

We will have debates on Europe I'm sure. Now is not the time to debate

the referendum. Back to our questioner. Do you feel you have had

an answer? Yes, I agree with the M4 relief road answer. We should do

more to help our steel industry and I don't think Mr Gill has really...

How are we going to sell the steel? It is uncompetitive. The Chinese

government have subsidised Chinese steel $11 billion in one year. They

can dump it at us at prices we cannot compete with and under EU

procurement laws are not allowed to say you can only use Welsh steel in

Britain. Thank you. Let's go to question five. It comes from Alan

Humphreys. Have the stars of Ukip been forced on us in Wales through

the regionalist system? You are getting at two former Conservative

MPs, maybe? I'd rather perhaps see Welsh politicians, Welsh Ukip

members. Well, ultimately, I am the leader of Ukip in Wales. I do not

have a great deal of power with regards to the selection of

candidates. That went to a ballot of the membership. The membership

selected who they wanted in each region. Then the NEC approved that.

I had no say in that whatsoever. Would I have allowed people to come

in over our hard-working Welsh membership? Probably not. Probably

not. It wasn't my decision. And the members have given us these

candidates and therefore I back them. You would rather they weren't

there then? Would I have chosen them? No, probably not. The reality

is that is what we have got. That is what the members chose through

is that is what we have got. That is democracy. Are they an asset to the

party? Of course, they have years of experience. Mark Reckless was an MP.

He did a brave thing when he came over to Ukip. He is a very

intelligent man. The lady in pink? With regards to Mark Reckless, I am

a Ukip member, and I voted for Mark Reckless and I'm Welsh, and I'm

proud I voted for him. I looked at his background, I looked at

everything he could give to us and I'm proud of it. It was a democratic

vote. That is the way it should be. Exactly. Let's take some points over

this side. Yes? Taking into consideration that you are talking

basically stating that it's Ukip policy that the people who have been

selected have been selected. Do you not think that it is detrimental to

your party when some of your candidates who have

your party when some of your have stood down in protest? Well, is

that detrimental to the party? No, it shows we are passionate people.

that detrimental to the party? No, It shows we are principled. No. This

is a reference to Gareth Bennett, a controversial candidate. You have

some candidates that you are unhappy with and yet you are leader of the

party, what does that say about your leadership? It says that I am

leading the party within the boundaries of the authority and the

powers that I have. Would you like to change those... Does it frustrate

you, would you like to change those? There are lots of things that

frustrates me about politics. The reality is, I know what I want us to

do and achieve. I know that we have a team that... Gareth Bennett is new

to politics. Genuinely, he joined the party a year ago. He needs

training. This is a comment about growth in immigration in Cardiff...

His own comments. You get so frustrated that maybe you will walk

away from it. It is not an easy party to lead, is it? I have been

quoted several times as saying, "It is like herding cats" and

quoted several times as saying, "It because of all of the different

personalities. That is because we are a fiery party. People come to

us, either they have never been in politics at all or they come from

other parties. We have got Plaid Cymru, Labour, Lib Dems as well,

believe it or not. We are a fiery party. And we are dealing

believe it or not. We are a fiery people's emotions and people's

belief systems and, you know, you always say if you want to keep

friends, don't talk politics or religion. I talk politics...

friends, don't talk politics or will be herding cats after this

election and after the referendum? Absolutely. Thank you very much.

election and after the referendum? Thank you very much for joining us

this evening. That is it, that is our time up. So, join us again

tomorrow night in Aberystwyth where the leader of the Welsh Liberal

Democrats Kirsty Williams will face the questions in Ask the Leader.

Thank you very much to Nathan Gill and to the audience here in Swansea

this evening. Nos da. Good night.