26/02/2018 Inside Out London


26/02/2018

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Hello, you're watching

Inside Out London.

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Here's what's coming

up on tonight's show.

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Could building on our rooftops be

the solution to London bus

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in the housing crisis?

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The combination of building

in the airspace but doing it

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where a lot of the work produced

an off-site to minimise

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inconvenience.

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It's got to be an exciting

concept for us.

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Why hiring a professional friend

to help with your court case

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could do more harm than good.

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They're clogging the courts.

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They give false hope to people.

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They are the unlicensed

minicab of the court world.

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And why is the Irish dance hall

is making a comeback.

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It reminds 40 years

the music hasn't changed.

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The atmosphere is much the same,

even the people are much the same,

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only 40 years older.

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We all know the capital

is hungry for housing,

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and according to Sadiq Khan's draft

London plan, we need

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65,000 new homes each year

for the next ten years.

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But with a shortage

of space, where are these

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properties going to go?

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Some reckon the answer

lies above our heads,

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I went to find out more.

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London boasts one of the most

dramatic skylines in the world.

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And for decades, it's

been building upwards.

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With at least 400 more

skyscrapers in the pipeline.

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With space at a premium

in the capital, many believe

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the answer to our housing crisis

belongs in the sky.

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But rather from starting

from the ground up, some developers

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want to use the roof

above our heads instead.

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Asha sounded Apex airspace three

years ago, one of a handful

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of rooftop developers in London.

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He believes expanding

upwards is the future.

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And after years of work, he thinks

people are starting to listen.

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What is airspace?

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This is airspace.

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We are talking about existing

buildings with flat roofs,

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where we can build extra new homes

on the top of existing

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buildings using construction.

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People have no idea how much cash

they are sitting under and how much

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they can sell fresh air

above the rooftops.

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And where is the potential for this?

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Across London.

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From council blocks to housing

blocks, from retail

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to private freeholds.

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Everywhere.

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Let me show you the one

we have already done.

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Over in Camden, Apex

is about to complete one

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of its first rooftop developments

on this 1960s apartment

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block, adding a single

penthouse to the roof.

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I'm intrigued to see how this

all works in practice.

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Let's take a look.

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I see air, you see airspace?

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So if simplify it,

what are the processes here?

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Essentially, our project

managers look at property.

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We agree a legal agreement

with the freeholders.

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We apply for planning

permission then we build

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the unit off-site, bring

it

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on the back of the lorries

and installed it.

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In this particular apartment,

took only a day to install it up.

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Because it was built in the factory.

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Is this a temporary fix

to a long-term problem?

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Absolutely not.

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It is the way to go now,

we are the 21st century

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and the industry is

moving that direction.

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The project came about after one

resident convinced seven

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of his neighbours to the club

together and by the

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the leaseholder of the building.

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They then sold the roof to Apex

and used the money to fund hundreds

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of thousands of pounds

worth of repairs.

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Describe what your block

was like for work started?

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To be honest it was maybe one of

the ugliest buildings in any road.

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With the money raised some

of the residents have not only been

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able to give the building

a face-lift, but also have

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improved the insulation,

remodelled the communal areas

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and repair a long-broken lift.

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It sounds like there was a lot

of work that needed to be done.

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How much did that cost?

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About £200,000.

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How were you going

to raise that before?

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Without selling the before

we couldn't have that money.

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Without selling the roof

we couldn't have that money.

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As you can see, this

place is almost finished

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and will go on sale very soon.

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I find it hard to believe that

all of this was built in a factory

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hundreds of miles away

and brought here by truck.

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Tucked away in the Welsh

countryside is F1 Modular,

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one of the factories supplying

ready-made homes to

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developers in London.

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We take everything we do

in the building site

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but do it in a factory.

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We start on day one as component

parts, we can build the box,

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at the end of the 15 days

you have a finished house.

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They are far more robust

than anything traditionally

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built because we have

to lift and transport them.

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House prices in London

and the construction cost make

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off-site particularly interesting

because we are manufacturing

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here in Wales and our hourly rate

and ability is far exceeding

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that of London.

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It makes this a very

cost effective solution.

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Off-site will provide to my mind,

certainly 20-30% of the solution

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to London and the whole of the UK.

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The issue we have is getting

to build the quantities required.

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Across the UK new factories

for modular housing are being built

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to supply the increasing demand.

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Demand that appears to be present

at all levels of the housing market.

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In Bermondsey, a housing association

has plans to work with Apex to build

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more affordable homes on top of two

existing council blocks.

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The idea is to build 28

new apartments here,

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we will have two additional stories

and then book end

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apartments on either end.

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Of the 28 apartments,

17 will be sold by Apex on the open

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market and 11 will be accused

by the housing association for local

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residents at affordable rent levels.

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We need to do something to house

people in London so we can do

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one of two things: one,

we can spread out or we can

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end up using better use

of the density level.

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The combination of building

in the airspace but doing it

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where a lot of the work is actually

done off-site, said minimises

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inconvenience, has got to be

an exciting concept for us.

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Across London in Knightsbridge,

the first penthouse that produced

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house for the higher end

of the market.

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They sold one of the award-winning

multi-million pound penthouses

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on top of the grade

two listed building.

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They continue to develop some

of London's most expensive areas.

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We are talking marble,

designer kitchens, solid parquet

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flooring, the whole lot.

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But planning restrictions mean that

both entered the market often

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are slow to progress.

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I don't mind guidelines at all,

but we need to be flexible.

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You need someone with a bit

of oomph as I said, this

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is what we are going to do.

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Let's go for it.

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because the longer

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things are delayed and inevitably

there are cost implications

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and there is the frustration

people experience.

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Fortunately for developers

for the government

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appears to be listening.

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Earlier this month, the Ministry

of Housing announced plans to update

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the National Planning Framework

to encourage local authorities

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to facilitate rooftop developments.

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and free the path so local

authorities with the ambition in

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London but also across the country

can get on with it.

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There are a lot of local

authorities with this ambition.

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We want to make sure they have

freedom of flexibility of choice,

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and scope, to build the homes

London needs.

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One of London's largest estate

agents has used 3-D mapping

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technology to analyse the airspace

above buildings

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in zones one and two.

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To identify exactly

what potential there is.

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There are 23,000 buildings

supporting potentially

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41,000 additional homes

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within zones one and two.

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This level of development will be

the equivalent of London sprouting

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60 new skyscrapers each as high

as the Shard.

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We need to think outside the box.

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We know the housing targets

are significant, we know that

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existing intensification tends

to focus on bringing

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brownfield land back into use.

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We feel anything that adds

an alternative model

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to that is a good thing.

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And beyond the confines of central

London, Arshad is even more bullish

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when it comes to the future

potential modular airspace living.

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We can have potentially more

than 60,000 affordable new homes

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and in total 180,000 across London.

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Pretty much finished, what next?

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We are in the process

of building over 100 in 2018.

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Spread across six sites, we can

offer London as an opportunity

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that they can tell us

what they want to how

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it is the budget, we will build

a penthouse for them.

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It has not always been an easy road

for London's rooftop developments,

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but by the looks of things here,

the sky is very much the limit.

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Good job I've just about got

my head for heights.

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Still to come on the show...

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In comparison to dance

halls in Ireland

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it was a basic hall,

it's an awesome.

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We're looking at a place

like this, it's beautiful.

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Following legal aid cutbacks,

it has been much harder for people

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to get free legal assistance

for many types of law cases.

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And if you can't afford a solicitor,

representing yourself in court can

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be daunting and stressful.

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That's where McKenzie friends come

in, people who can provide practical

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guidance and emotional support.

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But with the market for professional

McKenzies now building,

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there are concerns that some

could be misleading

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or exploiting their client.

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People needed an alternative

to solicitors.

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Who were extremely expensive

and dominated the client

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with a rod of iron.

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McKenzie friends I think

are a brilliant idea

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but unfortunately, there's people

like him taking advantage

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of people like me.

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They're clogging the court,

they run unnecessarily arguments,

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they give false hope

they are the unlicensed

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minicab of the court world.

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Blake is representing himself

in an upcoming court case.

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Today he's come for a consultation

with his McKenzie friend, Nicola.

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Hi, good morning.

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The pre-trial review,

do you know what that is?

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No.

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It is where we go along at its then

listen for that half an hour.

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It is where we go along at its then

listen for that half an hour.

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It is where we go along at its then

listen for that half an hour.

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As he has a full-time job

he doesn't qualify for legal aid.

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But still feels the need to help

the pairing his case.

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It's a challenging process.

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Mentally very

challenging and tiring.

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Obviously, in terms of financial

funding, the solicitor is not

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the cheapest option.

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So I looked into other options

and I stumbled across Nicky.

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I feel like she was sent from above.

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You never know what a judge

is going to be feeling

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like and they say they don't want

any witnesses because

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it will take too

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much court time and therefore

you don't get the witnesses

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that all, none.

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We spoke about the cases ahead,

what needs to be done

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in terms of paperwork, I've done

research myself but I can't

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do it without Nicky.

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Nicola has been working

as a professional McKenzie

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friend for 15 years.

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On average you pay £250 VAT

per hour for a solicitor.

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With me, you pay £89 an hour.

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Let's go to your application.

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I realised there was a real

imbalance in the system

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and need to be an alternative

So that people didn't have to pay

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£500,000 a month every month

for something straightforward

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and administrative task

for all intents and purposes.

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As a McKenzie friend,

Nicola does not have the same rights

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in court as a qualified solicitor.

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But she believes she still offers

a valuable service.

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For clients that have the support

of a McKenzie friend it's great,

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because it's more like moral

support and being able

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to organise so they have

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confidence.

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Anyone can act as a McKenzie friend

without formal qualifications.

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The term dates back to a divorce

case in 1970 called

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McKenzie versus McKenzie

after which it was

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ruled everyone can be supported

in court by a friend

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or family member.

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As for many years most

McKenzies provided that

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support free of charge.

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But since legal aid cuts

came in five years ago,

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there's been an explosion

of McKenzie friends charging fees.

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There is no regulation in this

corner of the legal marketplace

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and making sure the McKenzie

you hire is a help rather

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than a hindrance isn't easy.

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Solicitor Julian has faced several

McKenzies in family law cases

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and think they often overlooked step

abounds of their original role.

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Why would you trust something

as important as your children

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and your relationship

with your children or your future

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financial security to someone

who has no real clue what they're

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doing most of the time?

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Quite often professional McKenzie

friends who have no training,

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no qualifications, and actually

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very little experience,

have watched far too much American

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television and feel the need to be

adversarial, aggressive,

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they really put on a show

for the poor sap who's

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paying the money.

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I'm thinking of one incident,

the father in this case

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chose a professional McKenzie friend

who just poured fuel

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on the fire and any chances

of coming to a sensible resolution

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were blown out of the water.

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The moment he sacked him,

we made a deal in half an hour.

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End of it.

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That would not have happened had

the McKenzie friend kept trying

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to aggravate matters.

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The Law Society which represents

solicitors also thinks that

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regulated professionals are a much

safer bet for litigants.

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There's a complaint system

which means that if the client

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is unhappy with the solicitor

they can lodge a complaint

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with an independent body.

0:14:510:14:52

If you instruct a McKenzie friend,

they do not necessarily have

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insurance, there is no regulatory

system backing them up

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so if something goes wrong,

there is no redress for the client.

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Things certainly went wrong for one

litigant who we are calling Beth.

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When she went to a family court

to get an urgent innjunction

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to restrict her ex-partner's access

to her son.

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I was advised by a domestic violence

charity to go to a McKenzie friend

0:15:190:15:22

which would alleged to save me

a lot of money.

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He charged me £500 on the spot.

0:15:250:15:28

He thought the best course

of action was to go straight

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in with an injunction at High Court,

it turns out this was totally

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the wrong thing to do.

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They don't hear family

matters at the High Court

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so it was a complete waste of time.

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When Beth finally got

the injunction, it wasn't watertight

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enough and left her son at risk

because the McKenzie had filled

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in the paperwork incorrectly.

0:15:440:15:46

The McKenzie also failed

to deliver the injunction

0:15:460:15:52

to Beth's ex-partner,

to guarantee he'd received.

0:15:520:15:55

The McKenzie insisted

he would go and knock

0:15:550:15:58

The McKenzie insisted he would go

and knock himself and deliver it.

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The following day when I asked him

how he delivered it,

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he said he posted it

to my ex's door.

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So he left me at risk by doing that.

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Another hearing was scheduled

but by this time, Beth was heavily

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pregnant and her McKenzie friend

told her he'd arranged

0:16:160:16:18

for the case to be adjourned.

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But he tried to do this by post,

just two days before the hearing.

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The post takes ten days before

the court even open it,

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so they didn't see

the request for the journey.

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So the case went ahead.

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My ex partner was that

and I wasn't was made it look

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like I didn't turn up.

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As a result, he managed to change

some things in the order

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which created upset for my son.

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At this point, Beth decided

to stop using the McKenzie

0:16:400:16:43

friend and in desperation,

she turned to a solicitor.

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I'd used all my savings

on the McKenzie friend,

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I gave him £1200 altogether,

it cost me roughly another £2500

0:16:530:16:59

to undo the mess that was made

by the McKenzie friend.

0:16:590:17:02

I had to beg, steal and borrow

the money to do this.

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This is absolutely what I wanted

to avoid in the first place.

0:17:050:17:08

Beth is now trying to get back some

of money by taking the McKenzie

0:17:080:17:11

friend to the Small Claims Court.

0:17:110:17:12

It made me feel extremely

angry and down.

0:17:120:17:14

McKenzie friends I think our

brilliant idea but unfortunately,

0:17:140:17:16

there's people like him taking

advantage of people like me.

0:17:160:17:23

Beth's bad experiences

with a professional McKenzie

0:17:230:17:28

friend may not be typical,

but there have

0:17:280:17:30

certainly been several

0:17:300:17:32

other rogue McKenzies who painted

the profession in a bad light.

0:17:320:17:39

In 2015, a former nightclub bouncer

was barred from acting

0:17:390:17:42

as a McKenzie, after verbally

abusing a lawyer.

0:17:420:17:45

And in 2016, paid McKenzie David

was jailed for 12 months

0:17:450:17:48

for perverting the course of justice

by submitting a false

0:17:480:17:50

psychology report.

0:17:510:17:53

The judiciary are currently

consulting on whether to restrict

0:17:530:18:01

the role McKenzies can play in court

and ban them

0:18:010:18:03

from recovering their costs.

0:18:030:18:05

We have come a long

way from the original

0:18:050:18:07

good Samaritan role.

0:18:080:18:09

The industry that is growing up

with those providing at a cost,

0:18:090:18:12

legal advice, conducting litigation,

that was something that

0:18:120:18:14

was never envisaged.

0:18:140:18:23

My clear view about that

is that the protection

0:18:230:18:25

of the consumer requires

0:18:250:18:26

that should not be allowed

to develop in an uncontrolled way.

0:18:260:18:30

And I know that the judiciary you

have first-hand experience of this,

0:18:300:18:33

are concerned about it.

0:18:330:18:35

But McKenzies like Nicola

are clear, if they can't earn

0:18:350:18:38

a living, it's the justice system

that will lose out.

0:18:380:18:46

It would proabbly put

a lot of very efficient,

0:18:460:18:48

effective and honest professional

McKenzie friends out

0:18:480:18:50

of business and of course,

0:18:500:18:53

that's bad for the litigants in

person and it's bad for everybody.

0:18:530:18:56

Especially given there's no

real support out there.

0:18:560:18:58

So what's the alternative?

0:18:580:19:00

People settle in London

from all over the world,

0:19:040:19:06

and when they arrive here,

they'd usually recreate

0:19:060:19:08

a slice of home.

0:19:080:19:12

For the newly arrived Irish

immigrants in the 1950s and 60s,

0:19:120:19:15

twisting the night away

in their very own dance halls

0:19:150:19:21

was the perfect way to remind

themselves of the old country.

0:19:210:19:24

Thomas McGill has been to find out

what became of those ballrooms

0:19:240:19:27

and the wild nights that took

place in them.

0:19:270:19:29

# Last night I had a pleasant dream.

0:19:290:19:34

# I woke up with a smile #.

0:19:340:19:36

This song by Larry Cunningham

knocked the Beatles off the number

0:19:360:19:39

one slot in Ireland back in the 60s.

0:19:390:19:45

And the night he performed it

here in Cricklewood in the ballroom,

0:19:450:19:47

nearly 7000 people queued up

to see him.

0:19:470:19:55

The old doors are still here

but the dance hall's gone now.

0:19:550:19:58

It first opened in 1952 and along

with other venues such

0:19:580:20:07

as the National in Kilburn,

the Gresham in Archway,

0:20:070:20:14

it featured Irish showbands

and country singers,

0:20:140:20:16

often playing to huge

crowds of regulars.

0:20:160:20:19

In the 60s and early 70s,

there was nearly 22 or 23 Irish

0:20:240:20:28

dance halls in London.

0:20:290:20:30

You could go dancing

seven nights a week.

0:20:300:20:34

In comparison to the dance halls

in Ireland, which was a basic

0:20:340:20:37

hall, it was awesome.

0:20:370:20:45

You asked am I looking

at it and were really

0:20:450:20:47

in a place like this,

it was beautiful.

0:20:470:20:49

It was massive queues but once

he got on the door, that was it.

0:20:490:20:53

An absolutely fantastic night.

0:20:530:20:53

In the swinging 60s,

these dancers would have been young

0:20:530:20:56

and living in a foreign

land for the first time.

0:20:560:20:58

Having just arrived from Ireland

and yearning for a bit of home.

0:20:580:21:02

We came here with school pal

as a holiday job and almost 44 years

0:21:020:21:04

later I'm still here.

0:21:040:21:09

Being away from home was difficult

at first even though

0:21:090:21:11

it was my choice rather than,

you missed your family,

0:21:110:21:13

your parents, you missed the ways

of Ireland,

0:21:130:21:16

things were very different.

0:21:160:21:20

It was good to be able to talk

to and meet other Irish people.

0:21:200:21:24

People in those days, they lived

in shared houses and rooms.

0:21:240:21:26

And they really didn't

want to stay in rooms all night.

0:21:260:21:29

It was only a place to sleep,

put your head down, more or less.

0:21:290:21:32

So they got out and about.

0:21:320:21:34

First of all, they get to a pub,

maybe to another pub or whatever,

0:21:340:21:38

then they go to the big

show band scene.

0:21:380:21:42

Girls would line up on one side,

and then when the dance started,

0:21:420:21:46

the boys would ask you would

you like to dance?

0:21:460:21:49

Some of these guys were really

drunk and staggering.

0:21:490:21:56

They would come over

and would say would you dance?

0:21:560:21:58

And you'd look and think

he's going to fall, no.

0:21:580:22:00

But eventually, Mr Right

could come along.

0:22:000:22:02

And that first dance

could last forever.

0:22:020:22:04

Yeah it took a long time to arrive

but it arrived in 2003.

0:22:040:22:07

I met my husband

Declan sitting there.

0:22:070:22:09

It was actually 2002.

0:22:100:22:20

We met in the Galtymore 1969

and in 1970 we got married.

0:22:210:22:24

Still here today, 48 years.

0:22:240:22:27

We had a dance and then another

dance, and moved on from there.

0:22:270:22:30

Is he a good dancer?

0:22:300:22:32

Yes he is.

0:22:320:22:32

I was a good dancer,

mover and waltzer.

0:22:320:22:37

# This is my home now.

0:22:370:22:45

But time has changed.

0:22:450:22:47

Some of the early immigrants return

to Ireland and youngsters stopped

0:22:470:22:49

coming over to London en masse

like they once did.

0:22:490:22:56

Most of the ballrooms closed

and the Galty was demolished.

0:22:560:22:58

It marked an end of the era,

and it seemed the Irish dance

0:22:580:23:01

scene had gone for ever.

0:23:010:23:06

But something rather wonderful

is happening just behind the Church

0:23:060:23:09

of the Sacred Heart here in Kilburn.

0:23:090:23:11

Every Monday night one

of the performers from back

0:23:110:23:13

in the day, a man known as McGinty,

is single-handedly attempting to

0:23:130:23:16

revive the old dance Hall tradition.

0:23:160:23:18

He is turning its social club

into the ballroom of romance.

0:23:180:23:21

What are we doing here?

0:23:210:23:22

Dancing, me and you.

0:23:220:23:25

It's slippy!

0:23:250:23:30

What have you put on the floor?

0:23:300:23:33

It is like salt.

0:23:330:23:34

Special stuff floor.

0:23:340:23:36

It's from Ireland.

0:23:360:23:38

What does it allow you to do?

0:23:380:23:39

Reduces the stickiness of the floor.

0:23:390:23:42

A lot of people said, Monday night,

lots of people wake up Monday night

0:23:420:23:48

because they work on Tuesday.

0:23:480:23:49

But a lot are retired.

0:23:490:23:51

I thought I give it a go

and I came up with the name

0:23:510:23:54

the Ballroom of Romance,

it works really well.

0:23:540:24:02

# Think of all the good

times that we knew #.

0:24:020:24:11

# And time will go rushing

by you won't be ...

0:24:110:24:15

# Bring me safely home to you.

0:24:150:24:17

Straightaway, they're

up on the floor.

0:24:170:24:18

They're all dancing and they're

going round the floor like rabbits.

0:24:180:24:21

Rabbits, dancing all night.

0:24:210:24:24

I know some people who come

in here and have got a stick

0:24:240:24:28

and they are walking in.

0:24:280:24:30

And a the music starts,

there are dancing on the floor.

0:24:300:24:32

They reckon I'm a faith

healer as well.

0:24:320:24:36

In terms of the music, is it helping

to keep the music alive?

0:24:360:24:40

It is a lifeline.

0:24:400:24:41

The band will come from Ireland

and I have somewhere to play,

0:24:410:24:44

and they'll play Manchester

on Friday, Birmingham on Saturday

0:24:440:24:46

and finish up in London.

0:24:460:24:50

At least it's an extra gig

for any of the bands.

0:24:500:24:54

There's local bands

that play here as well.

0:25:000:25:03

I play three times a year and keeps

the old thing ticking over.

0:25:030:25:07

The Irish were brought up

on basically a love of music.

0:25:070:25:10

People come here from Luton,

Essex, you name it.

0:25:100:25:13

Croydon, they come

from all over the area.

0:25:130:25:17

# Country roads, take me home #.

0:25:170:25:21

# To the place I belonged #.

0:25:210:25:25

They're all people from

the Hibernian, they're

0:25:250:25:34

from the Galtymore,

all from the dance floor.

0:25:340:25:39

Maybe a quarter of them have

met in the Galtymore.

0:25:390:25:42

But how does it compare

to the original ballrooms?

0:25:420:25:50

To find out, I invited

Trisha and Declan to trip

0:25:500:25:52

the light fantastic once

0:25:520:25:53

again at McGinty before

the ballroom of romance.

0:25:530:25:55

It reminds me of 40 years ago,

the music, hasn't changed.

0:25:550:25:58

The atmosphere is much the same

and even the people are much

0:25:580:26:01

the same, only 40 years older.

0:26:010:26:03

Surprisingly that this can

stay going in the world.

0:26:030:26:08

The world is

technologically whatever.

0:26:080:26:10

And you see something like this that

is the throwback to the old days.

0:26:100:26:19

And it seems the words

"will you dance" are still working

0:26:190:26:23

working romantically

in this dancehall today.

0:26:230:26:24

We met here on the second week

of it opening, roughly,

0:26:240:26:27

almost two years ago.

0:26:270:26:28

And we've been going out

together ever since.

0:26:280:26:30

What is it about the ballroom of

romance that made you fall in love?

0:26:300:26:35

We both enjoy a good work-out.

0:26:350:26:39

And this is certainly

a good work-out.

0:26:390:26:45

I enjoyed the dancing

and I love music.

0:26:450:26:48

With the lack of Irish dance

halls in London now,

0:26:480:26:51

when I first came here in 1967,

there was probably about 20

0:26:510:26:53

on a bigger scale than this.

0:26:530:27:03

And now the Galtymore was the last

of them in 2008 that close,

0:27:040:27:08

and this hall here, McGinty,

he took a punt on it and he's been

0:27:080:27:12

very successful with it.

0:27:120:27:18

So the old Irish dancing

scene is still alive

0:27:180:27:20

and kicking in Kilburn.

0:27:200:27:24

And as I took in the atmosphere

here, it struck me that all too

0:27:240:27:28

often we don't appreciate a moment

until it becomes a memory.

0:27:280:27:31

The great news here on a Monday

night for these revellers

0:27:310:27:38

is that their memories can once

again can truly become real moments.

0:27:380:27:42

That looked like a cracking evening.

0:27:420:27:49

That's just about it

for tonight's Inside Out.

0:27:490:27:55

Before we go, here's what's

coming up on next show.

0:27:550:27:57

We meet the former city worker

on a mission to get rid

0:27:570:28:00

of London's plastic waste.

0:28:000:28:01

In just one hour,

I filled up both nets.

0:28:010:28:03

There are many more

plastic on the canal,

0:28:030:28:05

but you can't collect everything.

0:28:050:28:06

Why the price of antique furniture

has come crashing down.

0:28:060:28:11

This is a typical

example of Victorian.

0:28:110:28:14

About ten years ago,

I think we would have

0:28:140:28:19

got £4-600 for this.

0:28:190:28:24

Today it in the auction at £30-50.

0:28:240:28:25

And 75 years on, we remember

the victims of the Bethnal Green

0:28:250:28:28

Green tube disaster.

0:28:280:28:31

I heard people screaming

and calling for the mothers,

0:28:310:28:33

We couldn't get out.

0:28:330:28:35

I couldn't get out.

0:28:350:28:37

It was terrible.

0:28:370:28:38

At the time, it was terrible.

0:28:380:28:41

That's it for tonight's Inside Out,

don't forget tonight's

0:28:430:28:47

programme will be on iPlayer,

just head to our website.

0:28:470:28:49

See you next week.

0:28:580:28:59

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