Selling Northern Ireland Spotlight

Almost two years ago, Northern Ireland woke up

to the biggest property deal anyone here has ever seen.

Almost 900 properties.

Over ?1 billion.

This is not an ordinary transaction.

This is the largest transaction in the history of Northern Ireland.

The largest since the plantations.

And not a single For Sale sign anywhere. This deal saw the transfer

of a massive property loan portfolio from the Irish Government agency

Nama to an American vulture fund.

And the start of a financial scandal that goes to the heart of power

and influence in Northern Ireland.

Tonight on Spotlight we expose the extent of that scandal.

Because when three businessmen sat down last year to talk

about the payoff, Spotlight was there.

What was revealed was an attempt to illegally distribute millions

of pounds to this man: Former First Minister Peter Robinson's friend

and troubleshooter, Frank Cushnahan. When the money came

in he, he actually moved six million of it.

Cushnahan's done all this work, therefore, he's entitled to his fee.

A scandal that we can reveal has just been officially reported

by a whistle-blower to America's most powerful financial

investigations agency.

This is a story about debt: Not

the kind that comes with a mortgage or a credit card, but debt that can

only be acquired by the very rich.

The kind of debt that would make two governments sit up and take notice.

This is the story of a billion pound plan to cut that debt.

And it starts

with the men who made it happen.

These were people who would be regarded as pillars

of the establishment in many ways.

The fixers at the heart of a transaction that is now

the subject of criminal and parliamentary inquiries.

When these people spoke, they spoke with some authority,

knowledge and expertise. Ian Coulter is one of the people

the former First Minister was talking about.

He certainly spoke with authority.

If they set that as a target date let's meet it and give the business

the chance it needs to grow the economy by having a very

positive image internationally.

Ian Coulter has an impressive CV.

He was the managing partners in one of Northern Ireland's biggest law

firms,

he was also the first solicitor here to head the Confederation

of British Industry and he was even named Northern Ireland's deal maker

of the year. Coulter was at the very pinnacle

of his profession.

Then suddenly last year, he walked away from it all.

A few weeks later, he was under investigation by the Law Society -

an investigation started by his own firm, Tughans.

That inquiry has now been going on for over a year.

Spotlight has also been investigating what happened.

Almost ten months ago, we learned that Ian Coulter had

moved millions of pounds out of his law firm to a holding account

on the Isle of Man. We had learned that the money

was intended to be a payment, part of a fixer's fee for a deal

involving Ian Coulter. He was a lawyer for the buyer.

The sellers were Nama, an agency of the Irish Government.

Nama was created to save Irish banks after the crash.

Overnight it had become the biggest player in property

in Northern Ireland - controlling a portfolio once worth ?4.5 billion

The deal that Ian Coulter had helped to fix was the sale

of this vast portfolio.

But last summer, in the Dail, explosive allegations were made

about the fixer's fee controlled by Coulter.

Sorry settle down.

Deputy Wallace.

Independent TD Mick Wallace claimed in the Irish parliament that

Coulter's money was a kickback for a politician.

Do you have any concerns that a routine audit of a solicitor's

firm that looked after that particular deal where 4.5 billion

of assets were sold for 1.5, euros with a massive loss

for the Irish taxpayer?

A routine audit actually showed up where seven million sterling ended

up in an Isle of Man bank account.

It was reportedly earmarked for a Northern Ireland

politician or party.

Would Deputy Wallace give all those details to An Garda Siochana?

Do you not think it should be looked at?

No actual evidence of payment to a politician has emerged

And Mick Wallace's claim was denied by Ian Coulter,

the man who moved the money.

This is the Assembly Committee Room 30.

Parliamentary investigations started on both sides of the border.

And much of the focus has been on the two men Peter Robinson called

establishment figures: Ian Coulter and this man, Frank Cushnahan.

Look, I made it clear publicly that I have been friendly

with Frank for many years.

Frank Cushnahan was the other man Peter Robinson called a pillar

of the establishment. And here's the evidence the former

First Minister was right.

This is Cushnahan Quay.

A massive section of Belfast Harbour named after the man who once

presided over it.

Frank Cushnahan is an incredibly well connected

Belfast businessman.

He was chairman of the Belfast Harbour Commission for eight years.

His portrait hangs in their offices.

A former banker, he's been appointed to a range of Government advisory

posts by both direct rule and Executive ministers.

Do you view Frank Cushnahan as an honourable man?

I think that the general view of Frank Cushnahan,

in that he was used very considerably as an expert in these

areas, I was almost going to use the word guru in terms of banking

and financial issues.

When the First Minister called for help, Frank Cushnahan answered.

he was credited with staving off the collapse of the

Presbyterian Mutual Society.

And he found a mystery benefactor to rescue Glentoran football club.

But not everyone holds Frank Cushnahan in such high esteem.

His behaviour was criticised by a Stormont investigation

into the East Belfast company Red Sky.

On the management of Housing Executive maintenance

contracts, the Assembly's Public Accounts Committee said that

Mr Cushnahan's involvement in these negotiations was,

quote: Totally unethical and could and should

have been avoided.

Was the unethical aspect the fact that he had been a serving member

of the Housing Executive's audit committee?

I believe he did serve in that post, yes.

Nine years ago, Frank Cushnahan was an advisor to the Housing

Executive.

But he left that post to become chairman of Red Sky,

a company that worked for the Housing Executive.

He persuaded the Housing Executive to forgive most of Red Sky's debts.

Then negotiated down debts, allegedly, of the order of a quarter

of a million to ?20,000.

Is that accurate?

Yes, that is correct.

To the best of our knowledge, yes.

The Public Accounts Committee found that in 2007, Frank Cushnahan had

played on both sides of the fence to Red Sky's advantage.

Two years later, Frank was presented with an even bigger opportunity.

In 2009 the Dublin Government created the National Asset

Management Agency, Nama, to buy up the toxic debt

that

threatened to destabilise the entire economy.

And by doing so, created one of the world's biggest ever property

portfolios, worth nearly ?60 billion.

And what was significant for Northern Ireland was that

?4.5 billion of that debt was owed by developers based here.

Many politicians feared the Irish government would hold a fire sale -

quickly selling off swathes of property at once.

They feared that could drive property prices even lower,

as the then Finance Minister told Spotlight in 2011.

I think we are entering a much more dangerous phase,

because now Nama have to decide those businesses we have taken in,

first of all what are we going to do with the land and that's

where the fire sale danger could arise, where if they simply

try to off load all of that land on to the market,

it would make the situation far, far worse

So Nama agreed to set up a Northern Ireland advisory committee.

Handpicked by Sammy Wilson to sit on that committee,

was none other than Frank Cushnahan.

That gave Frank Cushnahan influence with both Nama

and Northern Ireland politicians.

So when it came to Northern Ireland's biggest ever property deal

Frank Cushnahan had the inside track.

It is amazing to think that right in the middle of Belfast this entire

block of shops, retail offices, this all went into Nama.

Yeah.

It was just really the scale of the acquisition.

It pretty much put Nama up there as one of the top property

companies in the world, really overnight.

That found its way into the Nama portfolio

as well.

The impact on Northern Ireland of the Nama acquisition

was so vast its effects could be seen everywhere.

And even this building, the Invest Northern Ireland

building.

Another iconic building that found its way into the Nama portfolio.

But Nama wasn't really about buying up property,

It was about buying up the bad debt, bad debt owed

by very few developers.

More than ?4 billion was owed by just 55 debtors.

And the vast bulk of that debt was with a handful of people.

Just as many people found their homes had gone into negative

equity, the properties owned by the developers were worth

a fraction of what they actually owed.

That put Nama in control of not just buildings and land,

but all the trappings of wealth and a million pound

collection of paintings.

And for many developers the risk extended to the very home

they lived in.

That's because they secured their loans with what's known

as personal guarantees.

A personal guarantee means that should the thing fail,

or should the bank or the lender need its money back it can seize

the home of the Director concerned.

So he's basically putting, he's putting his house on the line.

And Nama were very clear they were going after these guarantees.

I was asked the question specifically,

"Will we seek to enforce personal guarantees?"

The answer was, as a policy, "Yes.

Absolutely."

The developers were desperate to get out

from under the debt.

But Nama was prevented by law from negotiating any kind

of settlement with the developers.

That's because the Southern taxpayers who had bailed out

the developers in the first place would not stand for handing their

property back at what inevitably would be a discount,

as NAMA chairman Frank Daly told us in 2011.

Under the NAMA legislation, the NAMA act of 2009,

we are actually precluded from selling back an asset

to a defaulting debtor, so that is an immediate barrier.

You take an asset off somebody at a discounted value,

and then if the day afterwards you sell them back that at that

discounted value, the tax payers who have funded the gap

will understandably be very irate and very upset.

The developers were simply stuck.

For several years they were unable to buy back their properties.

But at least NAMA wasn't selling them to anyone else.

In April 2013, something happened that made it look

like that was all about to change.

The administrator appointed to operate a Portrush hotel says it

will be business as usual.

It's not clear what the long term future of the Ramada in the town

will be after the owners lost control to NAMA.

The owners of this hotel had tens of millions tied up

in loan guarantees.

In April 2013, Nama called in those loans.

The family say they had 24 hours to pay back ?48 million.

At that stage, this hotel was worth less than three.

The hotel was part of the Kennedy family group.

This is gladiatorial isn't it.

They're going to be swinging a ball and chain at each soon.

In 2009, the Kennedys were secure enough to sponsor

the North West 200.

The North West 200.

Look at that.

Just two years later, they were in debt to NAMA.

Over the line.

And in 2013, after failing to make repayments, NAMA called

in the administrators.

The DUP was particularly concerned.

NAMA's move against the hotel was raised by the local MP

Gregory Campbell and the MP for the neighbouring constituency,

Ian Paisley Junior.

Finance Minister Sammy Wilson phoned NAMA chairman Frank Daly

the next day.

It came as a shock to everybody that here was a hotel, a major hotel,

and suddenly at the beginning of the holiday period,

Nama decide to close it.

This was my worry: that we would going to start feeling the hard end

of NAMA's actions on some businesses in Northern Ireland and there were

going to be political consequences.

NAMA was under scrutiny but it was clearly ready to start

selling Northern Ireland property.

And that was making developers and politicians anxious.

A few weeks later, seemingly out of nowhere,

a saviour suddenly appeared.

Pimco.

A company with more than a trillion dollars at its disposal wanted

to buy NAMA out of Northern Ireland.

There are reasons to be cautiously optimistic to investment

opportunities to managers like PIMCO.

This was a golden opportunity for developers to get

their properties back.

Pimco is the world's largest bond fund manager and they're a quite

well respected player in the asset management space.

And the idea that they should actually get into physically owning

huge tranches of real estate in Northern Ireland is actually

quite unusual it's not their core business.

From

From a

But rather than go to Dublin to meet NAMA who actually controlled

the property, PIMCO turned up at Stormont.

In May 2013, officials from the fund met Peter Robinson and Sammy Wilson

And the men who were also at that meeting were?

Ian Coulter and Frank Cushnahan.

50,000 surely to start me.

50 or 45.

So NAMA's Northern Ireland's portfolio was on the auction block -

but NAMA didn't even know it.

90,000, I like you, at 90,000, that's the way to do it.

Frank Cushnahan, NAMA's own adviser hadn't told them he was setting up

the biggest property deal in Northern Ireland's history.

It seems astonishing that one of their prized assets which is this

portfolio of properties, should be hawked around

without their knowledge, I mean I can't believe it.

It's odd, if they didn't know, yeah.

But it also tells you something about the thinking of those

who arranged these meetings, which was, the only way to get

things done it to get politicians on the job.

Frank Cushnahan says his NAMA work had nothing to do

with the PIMCO meeting.

But an expert on NAMA legislation, says he shouldn't have been involved

with PIMCO and NAMA.

The code of conduct that deals with the committees of NAMA

including the Advisory Committee requires that everyone act

in the best interest of NAMA and certainly if you're acting

on behalf of a third party, if you're acting for someone other

than NAMA that wouldn't be appropriate under

the code of practice.

But this wasn't Frank Cushnahan's first meeting without NAMA's

knowledge.

Spotlight can reveal that by the time PIMCO was introduced

to Peter Robinson, Cushnahan's involvement in the deal was already

much deeper than NAMA knew.

Weeks earlier, Frank Cushnahan and Ian Coulter had teamed up

with a major London law firm, Brown Rudnick.

Together they spoke to several big investment houses in London

at the end of April 2013.

Frank Cushnahan didn't tell NAMA.

If you're having meetings in secret with people in terms of dealings

with specifically a NAMA transaction, then that should

be disclosed to NAMA.

It would be a very serious breach of the NAMA Act not to disclose

that to NAMA.

Last month Frank Cushnahan's lawyer told NAMA about the London meetings

and said Cushnahan had been talking to investors about generic

opportunities for investment.

But PIMCO says the meeting its representatives took part

in was about identifying "potential purchasers for the NAMA

Northern Irish portfolio." And PIMCO says this was when they were offered

the extraordinary access that led to the meeting with Peter Robinson.

Ian Coulter and Frank Cushnahan claimed to know what the Northern

Ireland executive thinks, and what the Northern Ireland

Executive will do, what does that tell you?

Well, I suppose it shows they've had you know previous discussion

with senior members of the Northern Ireland government

or else they're just half hitting and actually they're just making it

up, but I suspect it's the former.

Frank Cushnahan says he did not arrange the PIMCO

meeting at Stormont.

But Peter Robinson told us it WAS initiated by Frank Cushnahan

and Ian Coulter.

We might have expressed an interest or a willingness to have such

a meeting, but we never requested it.

The Sinn Fein Assembly member leading Stormont's inquiry

into the sale says the Ministers should have known better.

I think any Minister should have had alarm bells going off in their head,

when they saw Mr Cushnahan involved in the potential sale

of the portfolio, whilst at the same time sitting on the Nama Committee.

Sammy Wilson wasn't alarmed.

He wrote to Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan with PIMCO's proposal

- the fund wanted a private, closed-market sale.

But that presented a problem, because NAMA is supposed to get

the best return for the Irish taxpayers, it's meant

to sell its assets competitively on the open market.

It's extraordinary that you have two senior ministers,

in two different administrations, in contact, about how a major sale

should, should operate, and it seems to me that there

are political pressures, and unhealthy political pressures,

building up here.

Sammy Wilson later downplayed the significance of this letter.

Here is the important thing.

At that time,

it was not an important issue.

This was kind of a flyer almost to see whether Nama

and the Irish Government were interested in a deal of this

sort.

The Irish Finance Minister sent the proposal on to Nama.

Nama had never considered a sale this big before.

But the agency was obviously interested.

By September 2013,

Nama had started talking directly to Pimco.

That same month, Peter Robinson made a crucial intervention.

In a speech to DUP supporters, the First Minister attacked Nama

and for the first time, he publicly advocated selling Nama's

entire Northern Ireland portfolio in one go.

Both Nama and the Irish Government were surprised by the First

Minister's speech.

NAMA chairman Frank Daly said it was at odds

with everything that had previously come out

of the Northern Irish political system.

And the Irish Department of Finance said Peter Robinson's speech

was a total change of position.

But Peter Robinson denied a U-turn.

We needed something to stimulate the local market, that's why I think

we moved from the position in 2009, fear of a fire sale to some

responsible orderly disposal, being the way forward.

But, significantly, Richard Bullick, the special adviser

to Peter Robinson who dealt with the sale, indicated

that the First Minister's thinking was now perfectly aligned

with the views of Coulter and Cushnahan.

Are you saying that Ian and Frank had an influence

on the change of position?

What I am saying is, I am saying that my understanding,

again, I wouldn't be an expert by any means on the property

industry or anything else, but, certainly the view that Sammy

and Peter would have taken was the same as the view taken

by Ian and Frank.

After Peter Robinson's public intervention came a moment

of pantomime.

NAMA thought it was a good idea to tell their Northern Ireland

advisors about Pimco.

So at a meeting in Tughans law firm in Belfast, where Frank Cushnahan

had an office, Nama chairman Frank Daly made what he thought

was a big announcement - Pimco wanted to buy Nama's Northern Irish

portfolio

for over ?1 billion.

So Ian Coulter and Frank Cushnahan brought Pimco's sale proposal

to Peter Robinson and Sammy Wilson.

They told Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan,

and then he told NAMA chairman Frank Daly.

Now here was Frank Daly telling Frank Cushnahan - the man who'd

started it all in the first place.

Frank Daly told Cushnahan and the rest of the Committee

that the proposed deal was extremely politically sensitive and absolute

confidentiality was required.

It had been five months since Frank Cushnahan

first met PIMCO.

And he hadn't said a word.

We've spoken to someone else who was at that meeting.

Brian Rowntree was the other Northern Ireland advisor to Nama

and he says Frank Cushnahan did not disclose that he was

involved with Pimco.

Would you be surprised if one of the committee members at that

meeting worked for Pimco on their bid for the Northern

Ireland Nama portfolio?

I would be shocked if that is the case, because no declaration

was ever confirmed to the meeting.

I would be surprised, absolutely surprised,

that a person associated to the committee would be involved

in a live bid process.

Would you have been comfortable in that scenario?

Personally, no.

I...

I believe that I would have been compromised in that situation.

Why?

Well, I believe I would have been seen as perceived first

of all as having access to information to add benefit

to that bid you really can't advise Nama and advise the

third party as well.

If

If a

Frank Daly arrives and announces that Pimco are If a interested

in buying

the portfolio, Frank Cushnahan says nothing.

In that circumstance he would be absolutely obliged to step out

of the room so that he's not present for the discussion,

not seek to influence the discussion in any way,

but prior to doing so disclose his interest.

Frank Cushnahan recently told Nama he never had any conflict

of interest at any time during his service on the advisory committee.

The meeting was Frank Cushnahan's last as a Nama advisor.

He resigned soon after, referring to "family priorities."

Cushnahan was out of Nama, but by that stage the company

he and Coulter brought forward was well founded

with the politicians.

The day after he made his speech attacking Nama, Peter Robinson asked

to meet the Irish Finance Minister Michael Noonan.

The meeting took place the same day that Michael Noonan came to Belfast

to have lunch with Ian Coulter and the CBI.

When I was in Stormont Castle this morning with Peter,

well, we had conversations to agree a way forward.

But that's all they were, conversations.

Was Pimco discussed at that meeting?

I do not know whether Pimco was discussed as such,

the discussion may well have dealt with the issue of whether

it was possible to do, for Nama to come to terms

with a single bidder.

Pimco's bid was discussed.

This is the Executive's note of that meeting.

It shows Peter Robinson backing Pimco's bid for a secret sale.

The First Minister said Nama's policy of selling on the open market

could devastate the Northern Ireland economy.

He highlighted how it would be possible with one potential bidder,

Pimco, to negotiate terms and conditions.

This was a big request.

The Irish government was committed to competitive sales on the open

market because they believed that was the way to get the best

price, the most money to pay back to the taxpayer.

But here was Peter Robinson asking Dublin to consider a private sale

to the firm that had approached DUP ministers.

So, why was Peter Robinson so keen on Pimco's bid?

Unknown to Dublin - or at that stage, to any other party

in the Executive - the company had drafted an agreement

with DUP ministers known as a memorandum of understanding,

or MOU.

In it, Pimco promised to use Northern Ireland suppliers

and create some jobs

in a local office.

I do not think that anybody could say that an MOU would be

a bad thing.

If somebody is coming in with over ?1 billion worth of assets

to dispose of, it is in the interest of the local community to ensure

that those assets are disposed of in an orderly way.

But that Memorandum of Understanding carried one

other important stipulation.

Pimco offered to forgive the personal guarantees that hung

over developers - the threat that could take their very homes.

So, where did the MOU come from?

From the man who had been involved in the deal from the very start.

One day last year, Frank Cushnahan walked out of his office in Tughans

and into this hotel to have lunch with two men.

Spotlight was also there.

Cushnahan is on the far right.

Next to him is John Miskelly, a Nama developer and the man seen

here wearing a pink top.

And on the left, wearing the suit, is David Grey, an accountant.

Over the next two hours, out of his own mouth,

Frank Cushnahan revealed how deeply he was involved in the sale

of Nama's Northern Ireland portfolio .

We recorded them during lunch in a noisy hotel lobby.

Since then we've carefully analysed the recording of that meeting,

using BBC sound engineers and an independent digital forensic

expert to check exactly what was said.

That's the key phrase there.

We've also obtained another recording of the conversation

from a third party.

It clearly establishes that Frank Cushnahan and Ian Coulter

appear to have played a central role in securing the Memorandum

of Understanding between Pimco and Peter Robinson.

So, here Cushnahan claims credit for the MOU, the Memorandum

of Understanding that would forgive personal guarantees.

We've been told by a reputable source that amounted

to ?200 million, which would be potentially wiped off

the Northern Ireland debt from the first day

of Pimco's purchase.

Though you would not think it, given some of the comments

that have been made, the MOU was to cover every debtor

and not a so-called privileged few.

When Peter Robinson talked about clearing every debtor,

he wasn't talking about the many people who lost their

homes in the crash.

He was talking about 55 debtors who had been the amongst the richest

developers in Northern Ireland.

I mean, certainly from the perspective of the underlying

borrowers it's great news, but as far as Pimco and its,

its own investors are concerned, it's not a good deal at all.

I've never come across that and I think I would frankly be quite

surprised if, if a company of Pimco's credibility and success,

would have entered into such an agreement.

We asked Pimco why they would be willing to forgive a substantial

portion of the Northern Ireland debt.

They did not respond.

Even though one of Nama's advisors had delivered the memorandum

of understanding, Nama was astonished when they saw it -

especially because the very first item was the forgiveness

of personal guarantees.

When we looked at the MOU, or whatever it was, we would never

ever have countenanced this as a condition of sale.

It would be a debtors' charter.

Number one would be a debtors' charter.

Pimco's purchase might have been good for Northern Ireland.

But the Memorandum of Understanding meant it would have been a great

deal for developers - it would erase their personal

guarantees and give them the opportunity to regain control

of their properties with some of the original debt erased.

So, it should come as no surprise that Frank Cushnahan wasn't

just working for Nama and Pimco, he was also working

for the developers who would get rescued by the deal.

Both Peter Robinson and his special adviser told

Stormont's Finance Committee that they thought Frank Cushnahan

had become involved in the deal because he had clients caught

up in Nama.

Who were Frank's clients?

I am not aware of specific names, but Frank is a well-known person

in that world.

Clients in what respect?

I understand that he works with people who are in the - maybe

it is not an industry - development community.

He had clients who were caught up in the Nama...

I assume that that was the case.

So, Frank Cushnahan wasn't just playing for two sides of this deal,

he was playing three - the potential buyer,

the seller and the developers who would benefit from the sale.

He was a member of the Northern Ireland Advisory

Board for Nama.

He was meeting potential buyers, for the project.

He was also acted on behalf of clients who had loans transferred

into Nama, Mr Cushnahan seems to have an extraordinary level

of conflicts of interest, for one individual.

We've been told by several sources that Frank Cushnahan held

what were known as "clinics" for developers caught up in Nama.

Clinics in which he would tell developers how to survive

the agency.

One participant told us the meeting was in Tughans and the coffee

was served by Tughans.

Pimco offered Nama over a billion pounds for the Northern Ireland

portfolio

in December 2013.

Then Nama decided to open up the sales process beyond Pimco

But Pimco still looked like the favourite.

However American companies have strict legal requirements

about reporting who they pay in any transaction like this.

As American funds, they are caught under the Foreign Corrupt Practices

Act.

They have to do certain internal checks and sign off on that.

They obviously twigged that Mr Cushnahan was part

of the process.

Three weeks before the sale was due to close, Pimco phoned Nama

with news about Frank Cushnahan.

Pimco was going to pay him.

The next thing I heard was Pimco tell us he was to get a fee.

On what date did that occur and how long was it after his resignation?

On 10 March.

For how long had he been working for Pimco?

What was his acquisition fee?

We do not know that either.

A subsequent piece of information which came to us that indicated

that there was a fee of ?15 million which was to be split three ways

between Brown Rudnick, Tughans, the managing partner of Tughans

and Mr Frank Cushnahan.

Wow.

I remember when I heard about it, in the, in the PAC,

when Frank Daly said, "yeah, there was ?5 million

going to him, and ?15 million" The figures are just amazing, er,

what did he do, to get ?5 million?

Nama thought it would be unacceptable for their former

advisor to be paid by the company buying the Northern

Ireland portfolio.

The Nama board held an emergency meeting about Pimco's proposed

payment to Frank Cushnahan.

Pimco was out of the deal by the end of the day - but the Board decided

the sale would continue.

Politicians have said this was the crucial moment in the sales

process - instead of halting the sale and getting to the bottom

of Frank Cushnahan's role, Nama decided to sell

to someone else.

Well, I think it's negligent on the part of Nama, I mean,

Nama really ought to have you know at least halted the proceedings,

while they, they investigated the nature of the sweetener

that was supposed to be paid to Frank Cushnahan.

Erm, rather than just kind of racing in to the next prospective buyer

of the portfolio.

This is Nama's record of that meeting - the meeting

in which they learned about the proposed payment

to Frank Cushnahan and decided to proceed with the sale anyway.

It has been entirely redacted.

So, these are the minutes of the Nama board where

they actually discussed Pimco's concerns around er, Frank Cushnahan

and the potential payment of ?5 million to him.

It's completely redacted.

I presume because of commercial sensitivity.

So we have to take the word of Nama.

And for a deal that was, the biggest transaction

in the history of Nama, in the history of Northern Ireland

and that this is the only assurance that we're given,

a page of redacted information, then, you know, it does raise big

questions over the integrity of the entire deal.

Nama admits the proposed payment to Frank Cushnahan might look bad,

but the agency and Frank Cushnahan both say the sales process was not

tainted because Cushnahan did not have access

to sensitive information.

It is mind boggling that they would go and ask a guy to act for them

and pay him an acquisition fee of ?5 million if he was just

an ordinary Joe Soap off the street who did not know anything

about the property portfolio.

He had an office.

I do not disagree with the theory but all I can say is

that

from his work with Nama on the Northern Ireland advisory

committee, he did not gain any inside knowledge of the portfolio

That's the most unbelievable part of the Nama narrative.

The idea that you have a board, giving you advice on property,

who isn't told anything about the portfolio,

doesn't wash, absolutely doesn't wash at all.

Are you surprised that Nama actually has put it out there?

Well, it's the only possible defence they can put up.

Brian Rowntree also sat on the Committee and he says

they did see sensitive information.

But it would be fair to say that the information that

I witnessed and I heard in Nama offered commercial opportunity.

How valuable would that information have been to a bidder

for the Northern Ireland Nama portfolio?

What I would say was that information that we discussed

of a commercially sensitive nature in my view, would have added some

value to their application.

Because it would have given them some steer on the strategic

capacity to work out that overall portfolio.

With Pimco out, another American financial giant,

Cerberus, turned up at Stormont.

Their chairman, former US vice president Dan Quayle,

visited Peter Robinson.

I am less surprised that Cerberus was able to have the meeting

with Peter Robinson as quickly as, as that because they,

their whole kind of stock in trade is their political connections,

that's, that's how they operate.

So it would have been par to the course that they went

straight to the top of the Northern Ireland Executive

when they became involved?

I think so.

That's their modus operandi.

Ian Coulter was also at the Stormont meeting.

Cerberus hired him and Pimco's other law firm, Brown Rudnick,

immediately after Pimco withdrew.

But Frank Cushnahan - who had turned out to be so toxic for the Pimco

deal - was apparently out.

Once again, Nama didn't know that potential purchasers were talking

to the DUP.

Cerberus then go to a meeting at Stormont, with the First

Minister, once again, Nama says they didn't know

anything about that either.

They should, of course, of course they should

have been on high alert, and I don't see any evidence

that they made any efforts to find out what was happening

in the background.

Three days after Cerberus came to Stormont, Peter Robinson

was on the phone to the Irish Finance Minister,

Michael Noonan.

What was that call about and why was it directed to your mobile

phone as opposed to going through the offices

of the First Minister - if you can recall?

I really cannot recall.

You say that that was after the meeting with Cerberus.

It could well have been to ask whether he was aware

of its interest.

I just cannot recall.

I have no recollection of it.

It could have been to ask for a meeting.

I am not sure whether any meeting took place.

Indeed, it could have been about an Ireland rugby match.

I just do not know.

I would need to check.

Dublin's Department of Finance told us the phone call was about

the Northern Ireland sale, but no record of it was kept.

We asked Peter Robinson if he was promoting Cerberus.

He told us Ministers never promoted any particular company.

He said, "Which firm succeeded was unimportant to us."

Two weeks later, Cerberus made their bid.

The reserve price was ?1.3 billion.

Cerberus bid ?100,000 more.

I tell you what, it's being sold tonight.

They were the only company willing to meet Nama's asking price.

The gavel's up.

I'm selling once.

Twice.

Third.

It turned out to be the Irish taxpayer's biggest single loss

on a Nama loan sale.

Cerberus accepted one important condition from Nama.

They said they wouldn't pay any current or former Nama,

which would include Frank Cushnahan.

But Frank Cushnahan says he was still secretly involved

in the deal.

He says he worked with Ian Coulter to land Cerberus.

You know the, when I was working on that Cerberus thing to get that

Cushnahan says his role in the work was deliberately hidden

because of Nama's objections.

While Cerberus celebrated their purchase with Peter Robinson

and Martin McGuinness, the fund paid ?15 million

to Brown Rudnick and ?7.5 million of that was paid on to Tughans.

And Ian Coulter moved ?6 million to an Isle of Man bank account,

out of the firm's reach.

Tughans won't talk to us, but it seems like the partners'

dispute with Ian Coulter came from the suggestion that the fee

would be shared with Frank Cushnahan.

Solicitors aren't allowed to share legal fees with someone who isn't

another lawyer, as the Law Society told MLAs.

Hypothetically, a solicitor cannot share fees with

an unqualified person.

That is a breach of the Order and constitutes a crime.

That is absolute.

So was the money transferred to the Isle of Man intended

for Frank Cushnahan?

We know it was - because Frank Cushnahan said so.

In the meeting, Frank Cushnahan tells David Gray that Ian Coulter

moved the money into a temporary holding account, known as an escrow

account, in order to secure it for Cushnahan's fixer's fee.

He actually moved six million of it into an escrow account.

Last year Frank Cushnahan told Spotlight

he categorically denied seeking money from Pimco,

Cerberus, Tughans or Ian Coulter.

But here, he says the opposite.

Coulter moved ?6 million in order to pay him for the deal.

"He did that because he was then able to say, "there's this,

Cushnahan's done all this work, therefore, he's entitled

to his fee." Frank Cushnahan was the thread running

through the entire sales process.

He was one of the architects of the initial offer.

He was an advisor to the sellers.

He was also an advisor to the developers who would benefit

from the deal.

And at the end, despite specific assurances that he would not be

paid, he was there claiming he had worked on the final deal and saying

he deserved to be paid.

Our recording also revealed one curious episode involving a senior

Nama executive.

During Frank Cushnahan's lunch, he brings up the name Ronnie,

which we understand to be Ronnie Hanna,

a former bank official from Northern Ireland who became

Nama's head of asset recovery.

Cushnahan suggests Ronnie Hanna saved developers from Nama

going under - saying he prevented people's lights going out.

I mean, people's lights would have been out except for him.

I mean that sincerely.

John Miskelly, one of the developers caught up in Nama, then makes

a startling revelation.

He says he was told to contact Frank Cushnahan

by the First Minister's son, Gareth Robinson, who now runs

a PR company.

Ronnie Hanna told us it would be "wholly inappropriate" for him

to comment because there is a criminal investigation ongoing.

He left Nama six months after the sale and now runs

a consultancy outside Belfast.

Gareth Robinson did not respond to questions we put to him.

Frank Cushnahan did write to us, but did not address the alleged

phone call to Ronnie Hanna.

Detectives from the National Crime Agency are investigating

the Nama sale.

As long as that investigation continues, many of the key people

in this programme say they cannot answer our questions.

Sammy Wilson told us that the police are "more capable of dealing

with this issue than sensation seeking biased BBC reporters are."

He said we were seeking "to titillate the public

"with the kind of half-baked and biased reporting which has been

"the mark of Spotlight in the past." Peter Robinson told us he gave

a detailed statement to Stormont's Finance Committee

and answered all their questions.

He also he wanted to meet the NCA to help them in any way he could,

saying such matters should be left to professional investigators rather

than a TV programme.

Frank Cushnahan's lawyer told us it would be inappropriate for him

to comment while the NCA investigation is ongoing.

Ian Coulter was interviewed by the NCA last November.

He no longer practices law and now works as a director for one

of Northern Ireland's largest developers.

He has said publicly that he transferred the money

to the Isle of Man for complex, commercially and legally sensitive

reasons.

And then there's this man - the biggest revelation of all.

John Miskelly, the County Down developer who joined

Frank Cushnahan for lunch.

Late yesterday John Miskelly told us that our account of his business

meeting with Frank Cushnahan and David Gray is "an accurate

and truthful" portrayal of everything that was said

that day.

Including his own recollection of how Gareth Robinson,

Frank Cushnahan and Ronnie Hanna protected him from having his

lights put out by Nama.

John Miskelly has also given Spotlight a statement

in which he says he has been gathering his own detailed

and extensive evidence over several years which he says implicates other

individuals in financial misconduct.

We understand much of the evidence concerns the sale of

the Northern Ireland Nama portfolio.

John Miskelly told us...

We can also reveal that John Miskelly's

evidence in relation to the Nama Northern Ireland sale

has just been handed over to the Securities

and Exchange Commission, a powerful American financial watch dog.

John Miskelly told us...

He also said...

We understand Mr Miskelly has also

contacted the National Crime Agency in Belfast.

Northern Ireland's biggest ever property sale is about to turn

into its biggest financial and political scandal.

I'm Vincent Kearney, I'm home affairs correspondent

for BBC News NI.

Home affairs covers a huge range of subjects.