Browse content similar to 06/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
A warning that this programme contains strong language. | :00:19. | :00:33. | |
A summer's day in Belfast. A man who was once one of the richest people | :00:34. | :00:41. | |
in Northern Ireland has left his hospital bed for a meeting. He is | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
about to secretly record it. This is the actual conversation he recorded. | :00:47. | :01:18. | |
If the location of the meeting was unusual, the start of it was utterly | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
remarkable. Property developer John Miskelly was handing over a bag full | :01:27. | :01:27. | |
of cash. ?40,000, paid to a man promising to | :01:28. | :01:49. | |
use his "Insider status" to ease the businessman's financial problems. A | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
payment that depended on utter secrecy. | :01:53. | :02:09. | |
This is the man taking the cash - Frank Cushnahan - a man with a | :02:10. | :02:17. | |
formidable reputation in Northern Ireland business and banking | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
circles. Frank Cushnahan played a hidden role in the biggest property | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
transaction yet seen in Northern Ireland. Role Spotlight revealed | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
when we first investigated the deal six months ago. Almost 900 | :02:33. | :02:40. | |
properties over ?1 billion. I'm not a single for sale sign anywhere. -- | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
and not. Cushnahan had an astonishing presence throughout that | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
deal. He was advising the sellers, the buyers and property developers | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
who benefited from the sale. While we were making that first programme, | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
Cushnahan denied that he sought or received any fixers' fees from the | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
transaction. But he already admitted he was in line for exactly that kind | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
of payment when he was secretly recorded, speaking about himself in | :03:13. | :03:13. | |
the third person. What Frank Cushnahan didn't know at | :03:14. | :03:29. | |
that time was that there were more recordings referring to more secret | :03:30. | :03:31. | |
cash and secret connections. What makes the content of these | :03:32. | :03:43. | |
recordings even more shocking is that Frank Cushnahan -- Frank | :03:44. | :03:53. | |
Cushnahan's high-level connections. This is a sign of Frank Cushnahan | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
standing in Belfast. When he stepped down as chairman of the harboured | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
commission as a decade ago, his portrait was painted right at the | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
very heart of this huge area he presided over. An area that includes | :04:07. | :04:18. | |
Cushnahan Quay. So what was a man with such sterling credentials doing | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
a bag of money in a car park? Of course, Frank Cushnahan didn't know | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
he was bleeding -- being secretly recorded by Frank Miss Kelly, and by | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
his own account he couldn't resist being the deal -- John Miskelly. And | :04:35. | :04:35. | |
he couldn't resist doing the deal. One of his lawyers told Spotlight | :04:36. | :05:09. | |
Cushnahan has been a trusted sounding board for senior executive | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
ministers over many years. Certainly DUP ministers spoke highly of him | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
during Stormont committee meetings last year. Good morning, First | :05:19. | :05:27. | |
Minister. Look, I've made it clear publicly that I've been friendly | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
with Frank for many years. Good afternoon. I thought that he was | :05:31. | :05:39. | |
pugnacious but I learned to respect him and I still do and still count | :05:40. | :05:49. | |
him as a friend. Former Finance Minister Sammy Wilson didn't just | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
respect Frank Cushnahan, he nominated him to be an advisor to | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
Ireland's bad bank, the National Asset Management Agency, known as | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
Nama. Created by the Dublin government in | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
response to the financial crash in 2009, Nama rescued Irish banks by | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
taking over 70 billion euros in bad loans. The crash had put millions of | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
people around the world into a financial hole called negative | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
equity. They owed more money for their homes than those houses or | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
flats were now worth. Many ended up losing their homes as a result. But | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
property developers were on a completely different scale of debt. | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
They owed a vast amounts of money on buildings and land with no hope of | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
getting the money back. Their homes might also have been | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
under threat, but the greater danger was to the very banks they borrowed | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
from. As Nama's chief executive indicated last year. Lending appears | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
to have been particularly risky. Five Irish banks advanced 1.5 | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
sterling to property that was subsequently lost -- that | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
subsequently lost over two thirds of its value. Nama, funded by the Irish | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
taxpayer, stepped in to take over the property developers' bad debts. | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
There was one important restriction on the developers. They were not | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
allowed to buy their properties back from Nama for anything less than the | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
total amount they owed, and in most cases, that was completely | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
unfeasible. The only way it would be possible | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
for developers to get properties back would be if a fund took over | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
the Nama loans and did what Nama was prevented from doing - settling for | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
less than the full amount owed. Two years ago, that is what happened. | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
All the Northern Ireland loans were bought from Nama by a massive | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
American financial company. And they began refinancing some of the | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
developers, in other words, selling their properties back to them for | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
less than they originally owed. But last year, the UK's National | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
Crime Agency and American investigators began looking into | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
aspects of that sale, including Frank Cushnahan's intricate and | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
sometime hidden relationships with the buyers, sellers and developers. | :08:26. | :08:33. | |
As we will see later in the programme, those investigations led | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
Frank Cushnahan to embark on a major cover-up, an attempt to hide his | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
tracks that was also secretly recorded. | :08:41. | :08:54. | |
Frank Cushnahan had spent three and a half years advising Nama about | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
their Northern Ireland loan portfolio, a position he had been | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
given because of his connections. I appointed him because of his | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
interests. I mean, that's the base on which I chose him. That I knew | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
that he had interests in banking, I knew he had contacts in the world of | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
finance, I knew he had interest in the property market, and therefore | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
that gave him a knowledge which I believed he could then take to the | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
advisory committee in Nama and use for the good of Northern Ireland. | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
But Nama also lead Cushnahan to the man who would hand him a bag of | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
money and record his secrets, a mysterious and publicity-Shi'ite | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
County Down businessman named John Miskelly. -- publicity shy. John | :09:42. | :09:50. | |
Miskelly was a hugely successful property developer. At one time he | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
was in The Sunday Times rich list with a fortune of millions. He was a | :09:56. | :10:04. | |
bidder for Liverpool Football Club. But Miskelly's fortunes took a | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
downturn. He began suffering serious health problems that saw him | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
routinely hospitalised in the financial crash saw the property end | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
of his empire crumble. Buildings he owned, including town square in | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
Belfast, were suddenly worth far less than what he owed the banks. | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
With corporate debts close to ?100 million, which Miskelly's properties | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
were absorbed by Nama. -- Miskelly's properties. Despite his spectacular | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
climb and fall, John Miskelly has been an elusive figure. You hear his | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
name but he is nearly impossible to track down. That's why he's such an | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
intriguing figure. Because he has such power and such wealth, but | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
nobody knows really who this guy is and you can't even get a photograph | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
of him. These pictures, secretly recorded by Spotlight last year | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
during the meeting with Frank Cushnahan, are among the few images | :11:05. | :11:14. | |
of Miskelly that are known to exist. Because their respective profiles | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
were so low, Cushnahan and Miskelly knew very little about each other | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
when they met outside the City Hospital four years ago. But it | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
seems they both trusted the judgment of the man who introduced them. | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
Gareth Robinson. The son of former First Minister Peter Robinson. | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
I didn't even know... There is no suggestion Gareth | :11:38. | :12:19. | |
Robinson was aware of the ?40,000 payment or had any role in it. But | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
in contact that lasted over the next four years, that wasn't the last | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
time his name would come up in conversation between Miskelly and | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
Cushnahan. John Miskelly has told Spotlight he | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
has been recording business meetings for years. He said he started after | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
he believed he was defrauded in a property transaction. What he ended | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
up capturing was corrupt behaviour by the individual at the heart of | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
the biggest property transaction in Northern Ireland's history. Frank | :12:55. | :12:55. | |
Cushnahan. We played some of those recordings | :12:56. | :13:07. | |
to financial journalist Ian Fraser. The author of a book about the | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
collapse of the Royal Bank of Scotland, he is well acquainted with | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
some of Britain's biggest financial scandals. | :13:15. | :13:33. | |
It is extraordinary that it has been captured on tape. It is amazing. | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
This is like dynamite, it is totally corrupt. Have you ever come across | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
anything like this before? In 25 years as a financial journalist, I | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
have never heard a tape like this. I have been involved with stories | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
where there are allegations of bribes and brown envelopes, but I | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
have never had it as blatant as this. John Miskelly says he started | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
making his recordings because he wanted to expose wrongdoing. He says | :14:03. | :14:11. | |
he told the PSNI about Frank Cushnahan in 2014. We know he's now | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
handed some of his recordings over to the National Crime Agency and | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
America's Securities and Exchange Commission. John Miskelly is in many | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
ways the ghost at the banquet of this piece. He seems to have amassed | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
a huge amount of information, information he now seems to be | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
willing to share with the authorities not only in written but | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
also in the United States. Miskelly says he has more material that he | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
has not supplied the spotlight, so we can't know the entirety of what | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
he has recorded, and he has not answered many of our questions about | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
what is exposed by these recordings, including aspects of his own | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
behaviour, questions like why he waited, in some cases several years, | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
to release the tapes. Was it because Cushnahan didn't deliver what he was | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
paid ?40,000 for in the car park? There is no doubt that payment was | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
improper. As a member of Nama's Northern Ireland advisory committee, | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
Frank Cushnahan should have told Nama about any dealings with John | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
Miskelly, never mind secretly accepting ?40,000 in cash from him. | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
The question is, what was that ?40,000 cash payments opposed by? | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
According to what Cushnahan says in the recording, he was going to help | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
John Miskelly escape from Nama, something that would EA breach of | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
the law in the Republic. As we know, Irish Lord prevented developers like | :15:52. | :16:02. | |
-- Irish law prevented developers like a Miskelly from buying out of | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
their contracts getting others to do it for them. If any of your loans | :16:06. | :16:12. | |
are in default with Nama, no one acting on your behalf, no trustee or | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
agent can purchase those on your behalf. But that is exactly what | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
Frank Cushnahan proposed, extracting Miss -- Miskelly from Nama by having | :16:22. | :16:31. | |
his loans bought by a third party. It admits Miskelly would get control | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
of his property back for less than what he owed the Irish taxpayer. | :16:35. | :16:42. | |
Cushnahan even cited the law he was intending to circumvent, section 172 | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
of the Nama act. So, if a Nama committee member | :16:46. | :17:14. | |
attempted to help the developer buy-back assets from Nama using a | :17:15. | :17:22. | |
third-party, how series would be? It would be very serious for a whole | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
host of reasons. It would be wrong because there would be a huge | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
conflict-of-interest with assisting a developer in any way, but also the | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
use of a third party doesn't change the fact that it would be a breach | :17:37. | :17:43. | |
of the Nama act. After taking John Miskelly's money, Frank Cushnahan | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
made an extraordinary claim about why his plan would work. He claims | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
he could influence a senior executive insight Nama. Spotlight | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
has spent more than a year investigating this story, and in | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
that time, it has become clear to us that Frank Cushnahan is not a man | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
who always tells the truth. He saturated to John Miskelly -- | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
exaggerated, he hid his financial interest and he attempted to mislead | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
our investigation. So what he says next on the recording may well be an | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
invention, but if it were true, it would raise significant issues for | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
Nama about the integrity of its Northern Ireland operations. | :18:30. | :18:36. | |
Cushnahan's big claim is that he has access to this man, Ronnie Hanna, | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
one of Nama's most senior executives. Cler Mac John Miskelly | :18:42. | :18:53. | |
knew that Ronnie Hanna, who comes from Northern Ireland, was Nama's | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
head of asset recovery. Part of his job was to ensure debt is paid back | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
as much as possible. He was one of the top senior | :19:02. | :19:16. | |
executives at Nama, and he sat in a very senior position, which would | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
have given him over cited a crucial aspect of Nama. Frank Cushnahan's | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
claims are not direct evidence of any wrongdoing, and Ronnie Hanna | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
vehemently denies that he and Cushnahan were thick as thieves, or | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
that he had any improper dealings with Cushnahan. But assuming Ronnie | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
Hanna didn't know it, Frank Cushnahan was making promises on his | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
behalf, telling John Miskelly that his access to him would help him get | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
his property portfolio back. Frank Cushnahan may well have made | :19:48. | :20:12. | |
up these extraordinary claims about what he could do with Ronnie Hanna's | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
help just to get ?40,000 out of John Miskelly. And it's important to | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
remember that ultimately he didn't do what he said he would. His plan | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
to extract John Miskelly from Nama didn't work, but there is evidence | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
that he did try to get Miskelly out, and this is it. | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
John Miskelly says Frank Cushnahan wrote this note, a report on his | :20:39. | :20:50. | |
Nama properties shortly after he paid Cushnahan ?40,000. We have | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
asked Cushnahan about this note and shown a copy to his lawyers. He has | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
not responded to our questions about it. What is significant about this | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
document is that it contains what appears to be secret information. | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
The value Nama attached to each of John Miskelly's properties. Nama has | :21:12. | :21:20. | |
said repeatedly that in his role as an adviser, Frank Cushnahan had no | :21:21. | :21:22. | |
access to information about individual debtors like John | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
Miskelly. But if these numbers are what this note says they are, they | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
are among Nama's most closely guarded secrets. We have shown these | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
figures to Nama, and asked them twice if it is the same information | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
held by them. They have refused to confirm or deny it. Why is the value | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
that Nama puts on properties or assets so important? Nama guard so | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
jealously because if that information gets out, a bidder | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
effectively knows what Nama's price point is and where they will sell. | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
They know exactly how to price their bid. | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
Inside information about pricing goes against the normal rules of the | :22:07. | :22:14. | |
marketplace. Knowing the seller's bottom-line puts the buyer at an | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
advantage. I would really like one of these beautiful boxes, gorgeous. | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
This is Boxwood, Rosewood, this one is mahogany. How much are you | :22:27. | :22:34. | |
looking for this? About ?25 each. How much did you pay for it? I | :22:35. | :22:44. | |
probably paid about ?17. Would you give it to me for 15? Give it if a | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
less than you bought it. That's reasonable. How can that be | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
reasonable? We have to make some profit. I will give it due for 20 | :22:54. | :23:01. | |
quid. I think you should give it to me for 15! | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
Nama transactions routinely stretch into millions and even billions. | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
Which is why Nama pricing is supposed to be carefully guarded. | :23:13. | :23:20. | |
It's actually against the law in the Republic to share information from | :23:21. | :23:29. | |
inside Nama. Earlier this year, a former Nama official was convicted | :23:30. | :23:31. | |
of distributing the same type of information. The judge said Ende | :23:32. | :23:39. | |
Farrell only escapes jail because he hadn't gained financially from the | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
leak. A second former official is awaiting trial on similar charges. | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
If a Nama committee member was found to be in possession or of leaking | :23:49. | :24:05. | |
valuations, of a debtor that was unknown to Nama, what would be the | :24:06. | :24:13. | |
indication there? They shouldn't have any sort of conflict of | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
interest like that, but in general, any disclosure of sensitive Nama | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
information is a serious offence. But it is only a serious offence in | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
the Republic. It is a matter that appears to be beyond the remit of | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
the National Crime Agency's current investigation. John McGinn | :24:31. | :24:45. | |
McGuinness now heads the finance committee. Both bodies that those | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
who scrutinise Nama. He has already heard much evidence about Nama's | :24:53. | :25:00. | |
Northern Ireland seal. Quite frankly, it does stink a bit, and I | :25:01. | :25:08. | |
would be deeply concerned about it. We showed him the handwritten note. | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
This is a noted that appears to detail the Nama valuations or the | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
values Nama have placed on John Miskelly's... The properties he has | :25:21. | :25:27. | |
within Nama. It is not just sensitive information, it is | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
commercially sensitive, information that should not have been exchanged | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
with another party unless it was with the full authority of Nama. | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
That does not seem to be the case that Nama gave the authority to | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
release this information, therefore it is a breach, it is the law being | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
broken by an individual. It is not a breach in Northern Ireland. It is | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
not something that the MCA will probably look at. So does business | :25:58. | :26:05. | |
rate further investigation? That is the difficulty here, it is always | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
the difficulty that there are two jurisdictions, but this is so | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
serious, if it is true, and investigation must be carried out by | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
Nama. An explanation must be given by Nama relative to the valuations | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
and this note. Otherwise, what's happening is doubt is being created | :26:27. | :26:33. | |
in the minds of the public of South of Ireland and North of Ireland, and | :26:34. | :26:41. | |
no real answers are being given. So, where did the information come from? | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
There are three main possibilities. These figures may have been Frank | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
Cushnahan's best guesses, or he got them from John Miskelly. Or he was | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
given them directly by someone inside Nama. There were hints about | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
the origins of the information in the City Hospital conversation a | :27:03. | :27:03. | |
month before the note was written. Ronnie Hanna, who left Nama two | :27:04. | :27:49. | |
years ago, has denied absolutely supplying any confidential | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
information to Frank Cushnahan. He said he could not answer further | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
questions because of the ongoing MCA investigation, and because he has a | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
duty of confidentiality to his former employers. Even if the | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
information did originate from inside Nama, it is clear from the | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
prosecutions in the Republic that it could have come from a number of | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
possible sources. We've asked Frank Cushnahan about it. He said he | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
served on the Nama advisory committee to help Northern Ireland, | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
not to acquire sensitive information that he could apply for his own | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
personal benefit. So, could this information have come from John | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
Miskelly in the first place? Document refers to one of his former | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
employees knowing Nama's approved selling price for one property. And | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
Miskelly seems to say in the recording that he already has access | :28:45. | :28:46. | |
to some confidential information. But John Miskelly has told us the | :28:47. | :29:03. | |
?60 million was a number already in the public domain. He insists the | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
figures purporting to be Nama valuations in the document were new | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
to him. Nama has refused to discuss what | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
appears to be a leak, but if Frank Cushnahan had actual insider | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
information from the agency, that would have significant implications | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
for Nama and the Irish government. If evidence of more leaks, or more | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
breaches occur, how serious would that be for Nama? Very serious, | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
extremely serious. A breach of the law. Those are criminal acts and it | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
would be extremely serious. It could also run against the grain of the | :29:47. | :29:53. | |
story that Nama has told time and again to committees and elsewhere, | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
that they run a very tight ship. Two years ago, with very little advance | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
notice, Nama suddenly pulled out of Northern Ireland. | :30:05. | :30:14. | |
REPORTER: Widdecombe was on breaking news. US investment fund has bought | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
the entire... -- we begin with breaking news. | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
It was bought by a massive American fund called Cerberus. The seal was | :30:25. | :30:32. | |
named Project Eagle. The price was over ?1 billion, which represented a | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
loss for the Irish taxpayer but was declared a win for Northern Ireland. | :30:37. | :30:44. | |
The seal unlocked things for the heavily indebted developers, now | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
given the chance to regain control of their properties. Freed from | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
Nama, one Northern Ireland developer managed to wipe away debts of ?250 | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
million. Not John Miskelly. Frank Cushnahan's | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
escape plan had come to nothing. And Cerberus sold his properties onto | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
someone else. He is still involved in legal action against the American | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
company. At the time, Project Eagle -- at the | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
time Project Eagle was announced, few people knew Frank Cushnahan's | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
role. By the time of the seal, you had resigned from the committee, | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
referring to family priorities. But almost two years earlier he had | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
already outlined to John Miskelly how he would use his insider status | :31:34. | :31:41. | |
to set up the entire seal. Cushnahan's big plan was effectively | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
what happened. He said he wanted to use a giant American fund to get all | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
of Northern Ireland's developers out of Nama. | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
At that stage, he said he was already talking to potential | :31:56. | :31:56. | |
American buyers. And he said the plan had a political | :31:57. | :32:25. | |
component. The intervention of DUP ministers, including one who counted | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
himself among Cushnahan's loyal friends. The then Finance Minister | :32:30. | :32:31. | |
Sammy Wilson. Cushnahan thought Nama might be | :32:32. | :32:45. | |
willing to sell the Northern Ireland portfolio. And he believed political | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
pressure could cut the price. As he told Miskelly, if the Americans | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
could get a bargain, they would sell properties back to the developers at | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
a lower price, and, in his words, that would leave the developers | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
smelling of roses. It's clear there was a political | :33:03. | :33:45. | |
contest here. Do you think he's bluffing about the amount of | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
influence he had? With the Finance Minister working behind-the-scenes | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
in 2012? Is very hard to tell, but from some of the remarks, he | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
genuinely seems to believe he can manipulate things to suit his own | :33:59. | :33:59. | |
ends. As a paid Nama advisor, Frank | :34:00. | :34:30. | |
Cushnahan should have told Nama about any contacts he had concerning | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
Nama business. That Nama says he didn't tell the agency he was | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
recruiting American investors. In fact, it now seems Cushnahan | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
contacted every single bidder for the Project Eagle portfolio without | :34:44. | :34:50. | |
Nama's knowledge. One of them was prepared to pay Cushnahan ?5 | :34:51. | :34:51. | |
million. Of course, Cushnahan's plan to leave | :34:52. | :35:03. | |
developers smelling of roses also involved bringing politics into the | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
marketplace. He told John Miskelly he wanted executive ministers to | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
drive the price down. I absolutely love this vintage ring. Good, good. | :35:16. | :35:25. | |
It's mocked at ?32. How much did you pay for it? I can't tell you that! | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
I'll pay you less than you paid for it. You're not paying me less than | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
you paid -- than I paid for it! Frank Cushnahan seem to think | :35:37. | :35:38. | |
politics would change the way the market works. Frank Cushnahan wanted | :35:39. | :35:47. | |
to Sammy Wilson and Peter Robinson to ask the Dublin government to cut | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
the price of Nama's Northern Ireland portfolio. | :35:52. | :36:13. | |
A discount from Dublin. That was Frank Cushnahan's plan. The question | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
is, did it work? The portfolio was sold at a loss. | :36:19. | :36:33. | |
And we know that when the first offer for the Nama package came | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
forward, Peter Robinson has asked the Dublin Finance Minister what | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
could be done to protect the Northern Ireland economy. But the | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
Irish government and Peter Robinson have told us there was never any | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
discussion about a discount in their talks about the Northern Ireland | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
seal. Mr Robinson told us the suggestion of a discount was | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
miserable and we were only using his name to create interest in this | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
programme. We also asked Sammy Wilson about Frank Cushnahan's | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
claimed that he was working behind-the-scenes to sell the Nama | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
portfolio. He did not respond to our question. Nama insists it got the | :37:14. | :37:19. | |
best price possible. After listening to Cushnahan on the recording, | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
finance committee chairman John McGuinness isn't so sure. It was | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
sold for substantially less than what I would have anticipated that | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
it was worth. It's clear from what was being said on your tape that an | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
arrangement was being made to use the political system to stop the | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
sale of Project Eagle for the benefit of a small number of people. | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
Essentially it would appear to me that Mr Cushnahan was using the | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
political system and the economy of Northern Ireland to get that | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
discount, and whether people knew his intentions or not, he obviously | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
had it well worked out, a plan, to achieve what he wanted. This throws | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
a whole new light on it and I think it goes back to both governments to | :38:11. | :38:18. | |
take action on it. The Sinn Fein TD is currently a member of the Public | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
Accounts Committee in Dublin and has also questioned Nama about the sale. | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
What is absolutely certain is that we saw a web of relationships | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
between a small number of people within Nama and associated with | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
Nama, and associated with the Project Eagle portfolio, and to | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
anybody looking at that turn of events, you would question, for | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
somebody being played for a full? Was somebody willingly played as a | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
full? And what exactly were the dynamics? -- is a fool? I don't | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
believe we have all of it yet. Spotlight has been given an account | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
of another meeting between John Miskelly and Frank Cushnahan and | :39:04. | :39:10. | |
another secret payment. In early 2013, as flat protesters marched in | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
Belfast city centre, Cushnahan and Miskelly met in Tughans' law firm. | :39:15. | :39:22. | |
It was a Saturday afternoon and Frank Cushnahan was on his way to | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
Stormont, so the brief meeting took place in the lobby. It began much | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
might -- much like the earlier meeting at Belfast City Hospital, | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
with John Miskelly handing Frank Cushnahan a lot of cash. | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
This time, it was 10,000 euros, in bundles of 20s and tens. Immediately | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
after handing over the money, John Miskelly said the only people who | :39:47. | :39:53. | |
know I give you money is you and me. Frank Cushnahan responded, that was | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
all right. But the cash wasn't the only payment to the two men | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
discussed that day. John Miskelly told Frank Cushnahan | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
that he had paid ?5,000 at Christmas to Gareth Robinson, the First | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
Minister's son. Spotlight understands Frank Cushnahan told | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
Miskelly not to give Gareth Robinson any more money, and said he wasn't | :40:18. | :40:19. | |
involved in what they were discussing. He said that he would | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
give Robinson something out of any refinancing deal. We asked John | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
Miskelly and Gareth Robinson about the alleged payment and their | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
relationship. Gareth Robinson did not respond to us. John Miskelly | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
told us he paid Gareth Robinson for public relations work. This wasn't | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
the first time Cushnahan and Miskelly had talked about paying | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
Gareth Robinson. When they first met at Belfast City Hospital to discuss | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
how Miskelly could get his property back for less than he owed, | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
Cushnahan said he would give Gareth will -- Gareth Robinson a share of | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
the money out of that proposed extraction from Nama. | :41:05. | :41:53. | |
Cushnahan appeared to be concerned about what Gareth Robinson would | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
think of his contact with Miskelly. Of course, the refinancing of John | :41:58. | :42:37. | |
Miskelly's properties never came off. And there is no evidence Gareth | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
Robinson received any money from Frank Cushnahan. The Nama seal was | :42:42. | :42:48. | |
the biggest property deal in Northern Ireland's history. It | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
encompassed the loans behind almost 900 properties. At first, the seal | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
seemed remarkably smooth on the surface. It was endorsed by | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
practically everyone. Nama, the indebted developers and the | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
administrations in Belfast and Dublin. But that changed last year. | :43:07. | :43:14. | |
As we described in our last programme, Ian Coulter, a | :43:15. | :43:16. | |
high-profile lawyer who worked with Frank Cushnahan on the seal, | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
suddenly left his prestigious post at the top of Tughans' law firm. | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
Tughans then reported that Ian Coulter had removed a substantial | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
portion of a fee they got from the Nama seal. More than ?6 million had | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
gone to an offshore account on the Isle of Man. There were big question | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
marks over why millions of pounds from the Nama seal had been moved to | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
the Isle of Man. The Law Society in Belfast began an investigation. And | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
that investigation prompted Frank Cushnahan to start covering his | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
tracks. We know Frank Cushnahan started working for John Miskelly | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
back in 2012 because he said so right after Miskelly gave him | :44:02. | :44:02. | |
?40,000. But that's a lie, according to Nama. | :44:03. | :44:29. | |
They said Cushnahan never told them he was working with Miskelly or any | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
other developer. Being paid by Nama and being paid by one of their | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
debtors was a major conflict-of-interest. The cover-up | :44:41. | :44:49. | |
began last year. At the same time Spotlight started to gather evidence | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
about Frank Cushnahan's role. When we secretly filmed this meeting at a | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
Belfast hotel between Frank Cushnahan and John Miskelly, they | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
were joined by David Gray, an accountant working for Miskelly. | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
Cushnahan showed a bit grey a letter he wanted John Miskelly to sign. | :45:11. | :45:25. | |
But Cushnahan put a false date on the letter so it looks like he only | :45:26. | :45:35. | |
started working for Miskelly in 2014, after he resigned as a Nama | :45:36. | :45:36. | |
adviser. John Miskelly immediately questioned | :45:37. | :45:45. | |
the date on the letter. David Gray, the third man President | :45:46. | :46:05. | |
at this meeting -- present at this meeting said he thought the early | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
date was because the agreement between the two men had been agreed | :46:12. | :46:20. | |
but not formalised earlier. Frank Cushnahan's need to cover his tracks | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
became even more urgent once this happened. | :46:25. | :46:41. | |
Independent TD Mick Wallace claimed the millions of pounds move to the | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
Isle of Man was a payoff for a politician. No actual evidence | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
against a politician has emerged. But the sale came on and Leinster | :46:53. | :47:10. | |
house in Dublin. But it wasn't just politicians combing through the Nama | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
sale. The PSNI asked the National Crime Agency to investigate, and | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
some powerful American agencies, including BFB Ahye, began showing | :47:20. | :47:25. | |
interest in the case. -- including the FBI. A few weeks after the | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
allegations surfaced, Frank Cushnahan went to see John Miskelly | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
while he was getting treatment in the world Victoria Hospital. Frank | :47:36. | :47:38. | |
Cushnahan seemed nervous about the investigations. | :47:39. | :47:56. | |
And it's clear Cushnahan had growing misgivings about John Miskelly. The | :47:57. | :48:06. | |
Irish News had reported that there were 30 hours of recordings that | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
could hold the key to the Nama investigations, and Frank Cushnahan | :48:11. | :48:12. | |
suspected that they belonged to John Miskelly. | :48:13. | :48:23. | |
John Miskelly was telling the truth. The recordings referred to by the | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
Irish News had been made by another businessman, but it was clear | :48:29. | :48:36. | |
Cushnahan felt vulnerable to what Miskelly new. If Frank Cushnahan was | :48:37. | :48:44. | |
suspicious of John Miskelly then, imagine how he felt when he learned | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
that Miskelly was expected to testify at storm -- Stormont. The | :48:50. | :49:01. | |
finance committee which was investigating the Nama scandal | :49:02. | :49:09. | |
interviewed John Miskelly last year. For Frank Zhang, Miskelly's | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
testimony was a catastrophe waiting to happen. Last November, he came | :49:15. | :49:22. | |
back to the royal to discourage John Miskelly from talking to the | :49:23. | :49:24. | |
Stormont committee. Miskelly said he wanted to tell the | :49:25. | :49:45. | |
assembly about his grievances against Nama and the Anglo Irish | :49:46. | :49:47. | |
bank. Then Cushnahan moved onto suggesting | :49:48. | :50:20. | |
how Miskelly should respond to the committee. | :50:21. | :50:53. | |
Cushnahan then got to the nub of the matter, what Miskelly might tell | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
NLAs about payment lee-macro. But it wasn't just the committee | :50:58. | :51:46. | |
that concerned Frank Cushnahan. He had an even bigger worry. What John | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
Miskelly might tell the National Crime Agency. | :51:52. | :52:02. | |
Last October, the same group of people that we secretly recorded at | :52:03. | :52:10. | |
the Hotel lunch, Frank Cushnahan, John Miskelly and accounting David | :52:11. | :52:11. | |
Gray, met again. Frank Zhang's lawyers told us it | :52:12. | :52:29. | |
would be totally inappropriate for him to comment on matters that might | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
be part of the National Crime Agency's investigation, but that is | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
clearly not how he felt at this meeting, because he started to coach | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
John Miskelly about what to say to detect did from the NCA. The | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
conversation took place in a busy hospital canteen. | :52:48. | :53:23. | |
And when it came to the question of payments, Cushnahan made it clear he | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
wanted Miskelly to lie to police. Cushnahan had received bags full of | :53:30. | :53:51. | |
cash from John Miskelly, but here he was telling Miskelly to keep that a | :53:52. | :53:52. | |
secret. It is essentially another part of | :53:53. | :54:31. | |
the process of seeking to cover his tracks. He is ensuring that Miskelly | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
knows the score and they are singing of the same hymn sheet should be NCA | :54:39. | :54:43. | |
arrive on the doorstep. We have asked Frank Cushnahan about the | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
material in all the recordings play tonight. Last week his employer said | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
he would not be providing any further responses because of the | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
ongoing MCA investigation, and because he is contemplating legal | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
proceedings against the BBC. -- his lawyer said. | :55:01. | :55:07. | |
More than a year has gone by since serious questions were first asked | :55:08. | :55:16. | |
about the sale known as Project Eagle. Somebody was setting up the | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
purchase, is what it appears to me. Do you feel, Mr McDonald, that you | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
might have been set up in any way? No. | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
The wait for answers looks like it will go on much longer. The National | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
Crime Agency arrested two people on suspicion of fraud at the end of | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
May, almost 11 months into the investigation. Those people were | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
quietly released from police bail over the summer. No further action | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
has been taken against them, though the NCA says the investigation | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
remains active. The only political casualties has | :55:56. | :55:58. | |
been the chairman of Stormont's inquiry into the affair. Sinn Fein | :55:59. | :56:12. | |
MLA Dave Mackay resigned from the assembly -- Daithi McKay resigned. | :56:13. | :56:21. | |
There have been persistent recalls for an inquiry into the Nama sale. | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
So far the Irish government has resisted. The Republic's authorities | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
say an inquiry should not happen until the National Crime Agency | :56:31. | :56:33. | |
investigation in Northern Ireland is complete, but much of the evidence | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
we have revealed tonight points to breaches of southern law, breaches | :56:37. | :56:43. | |
beyond the powers of the NCA. John Merrick and -- McGuinness looked at | :56:44. | :56:55. | |
our evidence. I presume that that was a | :56:56. | :57:15. | |
transaction of 40,000 in cash for some reason or other. I just think | :57:16. | :57:26. | |
that that piece played their shows you how incorrect, how unlawful, all | :57:27. | :57:33. | |
of this seems to have been. Now the finance committee chairman says | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
Spotlight's evidence means a radical new approach is required on both | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
sides of the border. I think that if you were to tell anybody the story | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
without the audio or without the presentation of documents, they | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
would find it extremely difficult to believe. You have to actually listen | :57:53. | :57:58. | |
to the audio. You have to read the documents. And it's only then that | :57:59. | :58:06. | |
the shock begins to setting as to what was really happening in | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
Northern Ireland regarding Project Eagle. Two months ago he voted | :58:11. | :58:17. | |
against a commission of inquiry. What is your opinion now? This goes | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
beyond just a commission of inquiry in the South. If you had an all | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
Ireland commission of inquiry, then you will get a clear picture. It is | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
now quite obvious from the meeting in the hospital, from the sharing of | :58:31. | :58:38. | |
confidential information, from Nama, and all of the other activity mixed | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
in with it that that cross-border effort must be made to get to the | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
end of this and to get to the truth, and for people to face the | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
consequences of their actions. In the absence of an effective | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
mechanism for getting to the truth, there is a danger that criminal | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
investigations will stall, caught between conflicting justice systems | :59:02. | :59:02. | |
north and south. | :59:03. | :59:06. |