07/02/2013 The View

On the The View tonight, from field to fork, beef is a business worth

�1 billion locally, but has the controversy put a world-class

reputation at risk? We hear from our panel and Michelle O'Neill.

It's is a should -- Secure Sinn Fein seed, but could it be a

testing ground for a surprise candidate? The next place to have

its say it is here. I am on the election trail in Mid Ulster.

In commentators call our per Tessas are here with their views on gay

marriage, Chris Huhne and Richard the third.

You can follow the programme on Twitter.

Horsemeat in beefburgers and pork in Halle parfaits, over just a few

weeks, the fruit processing industry has found itself under

intense scrutiny. Can we be sure we are eating what we think we are

eating? Can shoppers believe what they read? And where has the system

of traceability broken down? At the heart of it is a food confidence

issue and the reputation of the No horsemeat is processed here,

Joining me now are the agricultural minister, Michel O'Neill, Professor

Chris Elliott and chair of the Stormont agriculture committee,

Paul Frew. Thank you for joining us. Michelle O'Neill, when did you

realise there was an issue in Northern Ireland? There is a

massive confidence issue and we learnt early last Friday about the

issue of that the FSA a are now involved in investigating. That

investigation needs to be thorough because if we are going to address

the issues of confidence that the public has, it needs to be robust,

timely and pour out the answers as to what has happened. That is the

only way they can address issues. See if that investigation throws up

criminality or illegality involved. Do you think they could be

criminality? For us, the message I want to be clear about his we need

to let this investigation take its course and make sure it looks at

every aspect. For me, the issue is about public confidence and we need

to separate those issues. The investigation is focusing on

imported meat. Local produce is not involved. We have traceability here,

full traceability. Let's get that message very clear, there are two

issues. Can I be clear about one thing, we saw an extract of you on

29th January. Did you know there was an issue with feed supply in

Northern Ireland and not say at that meeting, or did you not know?

That is not how I would do business. The issue arose after that. The

following Friday. So you were clear about that? And the FSA is now

dealing with it as it should? Absolutely. They need to expose

what happened. It is one isolated incident. That is the only way we

can restore public confidence that needs to be out there among

everybody. You need to get what you think you are getting. It is the

minister handling is properly or are there are other questions to be

answered? There are other questions, of course. But I think what we have

to do, and what I am keen to do, his show a united front. This is

much more than politics or headlines. This is about our

industry and a good industry. One that produces good quality produce

and is exporting across the world. Thirtysomething we have to protect

us politicians and I certainly will do that. -- that is something. I

will be keen to separate what we produce from our own fur -- own

farms which is traceable from birth to finish, from gate to plate. And

the other produce that is imported, that is the risk. Chris Elliott, do

you think we have traceability cracked and we can stand over the

quality of meat produced in this part of the world or are they still

issues that give you cause for concern? I think the first

important thing to note is that Northern Ireland was one of the

world leaders in introducing traceability systems. It goes back

probably 20 years. We did lead the world at those times. What we have

now is a very good system where we monitor animals from the time they

are born to the time they are slaughtered. It is a very good

system. Farmers themselves have introduced a quality assurance

scheme which adds value to the traceability system. What we have

to concentrate on is what happens after that because all of the

issues are coming up on products that have been further process. The

traceability isn't robust enough yet to say that if something was

produced in Northern Ireland, be it from imported or local material, if

it turns up a problem somewhere else in the world, where did the

problem arise? Big idea of traceability from field to fork is

not actually always the Court of -- it always the case? For the

majority of meet the answer is yes. If you go into a supermarket or

butcher shop in Northern Ireland and see that it was quality assured

beef, you can be assured it is local beef and high quality. It is

the processed materials. mincemeat? Yes. The ready meals and

for a lot of processing industries, they have been actively pushed

towards adding value to products. Now we are seeing a problem

associated with that. We now have this particular issue dominating

the headlines removing lasagne beef dishes because some of them

contained 100% horsemeat. Produced in France, nothing to do with

Northern Ireland, but as far as confidence is concerned, that is

worrying, isn't it? What a lot of people have to realise now is how

complex the production is. I always tell people that in Northern

Ireland we are in the middle of a food supply chain, a compliment --

complicated one. We distribute Pseuds amount of raw materials.

That happens all over the world. Why are we importing processed

mincemeat? Why are we not using our own meat from Northern Ireland?

answer to that is we don't produce enough yet. We really want to

increase local production. Chris is right, we are not producing enough.

Why aren't we producing enough? don't have enough at this moment in

time. It is a long-term challenge. What we take in imported products,

they need to be fully traceable. I think it is the European issue.

When they come in from Poland, France or wherever else, these need

to be dealt with at a European level and then at a local level.

The Food Standards Agency are key, but industry have a responsibility

to give what they say they are giving. You say you standby produce

from this part of the world, is it possible to turn this to our

advantage and say, customers in this part of the world can actually

be completely sure that what they are buying from Northern Ireland is

safe and is secured? Yes, out of every situation, if there is

anything good to take vomit it is that people can be confident in

local supply. There is a traceable number stamped on all local meat

and you can trace that back to the farmer, the field and the whole

system. Thirtysomething people can have confidence in. I encourage

consumers to separate these issues out. We can stand over local

produce. The problem is the consumer does not know which is

which. If you buy local and you go into your butcher shop or if in

your supermarket and it has Farm Quality Assured on it, you can be

confident. That must be the message going out. There has to be

education in this. People should source good-quality meat and know

the difference between what is produced in Northern Ireland and

what is pre-packed, processed or imported. That is the message.

won't get to the bottom of this until the investigation is complete.

Consumers won't be convinced until it is complete. He is one issue, as

they took freezer meet, frozen burgers of itself even though they

found there was not a problem with them. There is a Northern Ireland

problem -- product being sold across the UK, except it isn't at

the moment because they are not happy to stock it. That is the

position they have taken and that is why we need the investigation so

we can have concrete reasons. you not say they should do

something about that? I have not had a discussion with as they yet,

but we do not want to see a drop in confidence. What we produce is

whole sum untraceable. That is the message we need to get out. We need

to deal with the job issues, yes, but we need the investigation to be

cleat -- complete. Chris Elliott, let me ask you about affordability

because when you speak to process as they say it is all fine, but we

are under pressure from supermarkets to keep costs down.

Someone said to me, supermarkets want eight burgers or 1 euros.

Perhaps some unscrupulous processors are tempted to bring in

other materials that maybe we would not want our kids to be eating. Is

that at the heart of this cost? Cost is one of the driving factors.

I think if we look at what happened on this island, 2008 and 2009, that

was our last food crisis. That was about importing materials as well.

What our industry did was show remarkable leadership then, so what

we have put in place is a very robust scheme for testing all of

our imported food materials. 2 million tonnes per year. It doesn't

matter from where in the world it comes, we are checking that. That

is the food industries, but the meat industries are not doing that.

They have to use a food industry as an example because we can't have

more industries like this. We can't blame the farmers. If we are not

putting cheques in place, the only people responsible are ourselves.

Is that something you will take on board? There is an expert saying

what could be done. We have to look at all of these things. They need

to be exposed, the unscrupulous. Until we drive that out, this will

If confidence goes, jobs will go. It is worrying. That is why we need

this investigation to be thorough and to be complete and to finish as

soon as possible. Speedyness is important, isn't it? We have to

know the whole truth. We need to see what is out there. Then we

repair whatever damage is done. Again, I stress, there has to be a

separation between what we grow in our own fields and the imported

material. That is essential. Can we get this sorted out effectively and

can we restore confidence, so people know what it says on the tin

is what is in the packaging? white meat industry in Northern

Ireland are probably the most advanced right across Europe in

putting in high-quality assurance. It has taken them about five years

to do that. The red meat sector has to start now. It will not be a

quick fix. It has to start now. The future of the industry depends on

it. Thank you for coming in to join us on the programme tonight. Still

to come: In the garden of Eden there was Adam and Steve. It wasn't

Adam and eve. Despite opposition from some the House of Commons

backs gay marriage in England and Wales. What does it mean for

Northern Ireland? We may still be waiting on a date, but in Mid-

Ulster the political parties are gearing up for the campaign to

succeed Martin McGuinness, who resigned in December as the

Westminster MP. What is at stake in This is solid Sinn Fein territory.

Ever since Martin McGuinness beat the DUP's Willie Mccray, Sinn Fein

has strengthened its hold on this constituency. A by-election here

poses major challenges to the big parties. In Mid-Ulster the party

traditionally secured around half of -- secures half of the vote.

McGuinness factor should play heavily in his favour. He should

win it at a canter. These two men are also standing T unionist

parties are yet to reveal their plans and there is much talk of an

agreed candidate. Ian Greer edits a paper. He says unionists need to

act quickly. As a local editor, every week you wait and think,

"Well, what will happen this week?" it hasn't happened yet. And you

think they are dithering? I am not sure as much as having difficulty

finding an agreed candidate. Rodney Connor knows aut about the pitfalls.

At the last election he was backed by the DUP and the UUP. Although he

lost by four votes, he thought voters saw merit in having one

unionist candidate. Without doubt, that was the strongest message I

got when I was canvassing - that people did not want to be faced

with two or three different unionist candidates - they were

glad there was one person they could come and vote for. You see

the votes... Pollster Bill White says an agreed candidate in Mid-

Ulster has little chance of taking the seat, so there must be other

reasons for unionist co-operation. Are they looking at unionist, some

form of unionist unity further down the line? You are sending a major

signal to the electorate and Northern Ireland that if they agree

a unity candidate the next step may over in the next year or two as we

build up to the next Westminster election, may be a formal link.

While an agreed unionist candidate does not appear to pose any

electoral threat to Sinn Fein, some observers think the move could

actually help republicans. Sinn Fein would be delighted. Once again,

it narrows the battleground to a straightforward, back to the '97

battleground. Rodney Connor thinks that is what happened. Perception

is very important. Perception that was built on and really pushed by

Sinn Fein. Again, as I say, I can understand why that was done. The

strength and perception I was another Old Guard unionist. It was

not the way it was. Activists accept there is little chance that

this seat will change hands. For the challengers, the key statistics

on election day will be those that show whether their vote has gone up

or down. Sinn Fein will want to show they are still the dominant

force in Mid-Ulster. They have critics, including this man -

Oliver Hughes is a former Sinn Fein councillor. His brother, Frances,

died on hunger strike in 1981. There are people who are annoyed

and upset at the behaviour of Sinn Fein people. The strange thing

about it, when it comes to elections, they probably won't vote,

nonetheless, but certainly people out there and the sad thing about

this is, if you raise your head and complain or speak out against Sinn

Fein you are described as a dissident and a dissident by Sinn

Fein and a traitor by Martin McGuinness - which is not really

true. Elections by their nature pose questions. Can Sinn Fein

maintain their power base? Will this poll give the SDLP a boost? If

the unionists come together, is it a template for the days ahead? The

people of Mid-Ulster will provide Stephen Walker reporting. On

Tuesday, the House of Commons overwhelmingly voted in favour of a

Government bill to allow gay couples in England and Wales to

marry. A motion was ignored by Steven Agnew calling for similar

legislation here. We will chat to him in just a moment. First, a look

back to some of the contributions of our MPs during the debate in the

House of Commons on Tuesday. Since same-sex marriages were introduced

in Spain and the Netherlands they have decreased significantly and

indeed by tens of thousands. I am of course someone of faith. I am

proud of my marriage and that it was ritually founded. I don't

believe that's the only form of marriage that anybody should be

entitled to. For thousands of years, in virtually all cultures, it has

been defined to be a long-life union between a man and a woman.

the garden of Eden, it was Adam and Steve. It was not Adam and Eve, it

was not Adam and Steve. Do you have plans to re-visit that

attempt that you made last year to change the legislation here in

Northern Ireland? I think the Westminster vote changes the

context and gives an added boost to the equal marriage campaign which

the Green Party is fully supportive of. I don't see theish show coming

back in this term of the a-- the issue coming back in this term of

the Assembly. There was genuine surprise in the Assembly at the

level of votes in favour. The added impetus of the vote Westminster.

Scotland say they are going ahead with it. Three-quarters of the

people say they want to see same- sex marriage legislated for. I

think Northern Ireland's going to find a great push from across these

islands and I do think it's a matter of if, sorry when rather

than if. Only two of our MPs voted in favour of it on Tuesday? That is

disappointing. People will have noted the MPs who stayed away as

well. In Northern Ireland, as I say, the Assembly vote was almost evenly

split. I think there were a number of people, as I said, who were

surprised by the amount of support and who may well put their head

above the parapet. I'll be honest, we had a conterisation in our off -

- conversation in our office - this was a divisive issue, was this

going to hit the party electorally? We wanted to promote it. The result

has been - the amount of support we've got since it is phenomenal. I

think other MLAs know that now. The three unionists who put their heads

above the parapet, the amount of positive feedback they got, that

will spread through their party. The fact you don't want to bring it

back within the lifetime of this Assembly, does that not suggest to

people that you don't have the confidence to get it through,

because you know at the end of the day, the vast majority of people in

Northern Ireland don't see it as something they would want to

support and their politicians won't ultimately vote for it? In terms of

Northern Ireland, there was a poll, two-thirds of readers voted in

favour of same-sex marriage. It is a case now that the campaign knows

what the baseline is, they know which MLAs they have on side. They

have an education issue to work on with MLAs and with the general

public, because there is a lot of ignorance, for example. Mr Kenny

said they were equal in law to marriage. That was not the case.

And he genuinely, I believe, didn't know the difference. It doesn't

mean he'll support it next time. That process... That process of

education, making sure they know the difference between a civil

partnership and a marriage and I think making that clear. That can

make the difference to get the numbers.... If it is not done

legislatively, might some campaign groups try and take it through the

courts? We have seen the situation where our position of civil

partnerships not being allowed to adopt. Judges have ruled. It is

unlawful at press -- it is going through the courts that it is

unlawful at present. We have the quagmire if people come from GB and

are told their marriage is not recognised, that would be a

difficult one. Steven Agnew, thank you very much indeed. Back to us

for the next few weeks the professors Deirdre Heenan and Rick

Wilford. Let me stay with the subject we have been talking about

- gay marriage. It was clearly a controversial issue as far as

Westminster was concerned. Do you have a view as to whether it will

be back for debate here? I think it was controversial. It highlighted

the deep divisions within the Conservative Party. David Cameron

made it a personal crusade. He said it was an issue of conscience. Half

of his MPs decided not to support him. There is a clear division

between the moderners and the traditionalists -- modernisers and

the traditionalists. There are those who feel very uncomfort wbl

the marriage with the liberal and that agenda. What is interesting is

even the modernisers are saying that David Cameron is not serious

about it and he's doing it to make himself look like a compassionate

person. They don't believe, because he did not turn up for the initial

part of the debate. It is a devolved matter. It happens across

the water - what happens? Unless it is a legislative motion to adopt

the legislation here in Northern Ireland it will not happen. I think

Stephen put his finger on a really good point, which will make the

lawyers very happy, which is that if a gay couple go to England to

get married and their marriage will not be recognised here. It may be a

corner that is defending the -- it. We just look like, I think,

somewhere which is completely out of touch and out of time. We are

meant to be a country that is concerned with the quality - and

this is a test issue - and we failed it. Moment of the week?

me the report of the inquiry into Stafford Hospital. It was deeply

disturbing when we looked at the absence of care for people within

the hospital. Putting it in the context, that for many people the

NHS is the "Jewel in the Crown" of the UK, I think what is deeply

disturbing is they were saying, this was not a one off, there are

five other hospitals under investigation. It is clear to me,

unless we move forward in Northern Ireland, this is what will happen -

this is what the future holds in terms of the NHS. Your moment of

the week? Chris Huhne's ten-years late apolicy. Having perverted the

course of justice, tied up, I think actually in a number of respects,

the disinturnment of King Richard third. I think somebody Tweeted at

some point, trying to link the two in relation to Chris Huhne, a hers,

a hers, my kingdom for a hearse. Your Tweet of the week. It was a

cracker! I hear Chris Huhne wishes to turn back the clock which is

to turn back the clock which is another serious motoring offence.

And yours? In relation to the vote in the House of Commons and this

was from Benedict Brogan of the This massive rift. They often say

in the House of Commons that the opposition sits across from you and

the enemy sits behind you, as it were. On this issue, Cameron's

enemies were behind him because he could not carry half his party with

him. Just a quick look ahead, where will Richard III be buried? We know

it will be better than a car park. There is some on-going debate.

Leicester Cathedral say they want him. The cannon of Leicester is

actually from Fermanagh and they are very keen. York - well they are

uncertain. The leaders of York don't want him. Maybe we'll have a

peasant's revolt. Some are suggesting Westminster Abbey.

is a picture of your new best friend. Dr McKellen, who received a

dock trit at the University of Ulster, playing Richard III I think

a couple of years ago to great acclaim. The other thing I

discovered is he was the seventh Earl of Ulster. There are all kinds

of connections. I know he was Richard of York. When they tested

his DNA they found a trace... have time for you to tell us about

your look ahead - just in a sentence. The negotiations over the

next seven years is the big one. It could impact negatively on Northern

Ireland. OK, we will look ahead for that. We leave it there. A busy