10/01/2013 The View

They say a new year brings a new start, but does it?

Violence is back on the streets of Belfast. Nearly 40 days of Union

Flag protests have seen over 100 people arrested, 68 police officers

injured and businesses left counting the huge economic cost.

The First Minister has called for a stop to the protests, but they show

no signs of ending. Is the DUP still the voice of unionism or

could the language of violence be a threat to the party's leadership?

will be looking at what the loyalist protests mean for the DUP

and the First Minister, Peter Robinson.

This morning the Unionist Forum met to tackle the stalemate. Is this

the new way forward or just another talking shop for politicians?

They're questions I'll be putting to our panel.

And in a week of damning headlines for Belfast across the globe, can

the city's Titanic heritage help it shake off the gloom? Where we are

standing now was rubble and wasteland in 2008 until they

started building the apartments and the college behind us here, the

visitor centre, the office blocks. All this stuff is a chance for us

to start afresh. And for their views on our changing

political landscape we'll hear from commentators Paul McFadden and

Debbie Watters. And you can, of course, follow the

programme on Twitter - that's @bbctheview.

Disaffected, disconnected and defiant - so far loyalist youths

have refused to heed a call from the First Minister to stop their

protests. They're the latest generation to take to the streets

venting their anger over issues that include cultural identity and

relations with nationalism. We'll be discussing those issues and more

with our guests shortly, but first our political correspondent,

Martina Purdy, has been assessing just how big a threat the protests

are to Peter Robinson and the DUP. People power '70s-style. The

problem was power-sharing and it was loyalist mass protests like

these coupled with street violence that helped collapse Stormont and

force the unionist leader and Prime Minister, Brian Faulkner from

office. Today's demonstration clearly is a focal point of

confidence and certainty for the loyalists. 40 years on, that

confidence has faded. The loyalists are still protesting, albeit in

smaller numbers. So how big a threat are they to the stability of

Stormont and the current unionist leadership? These angry youths are

dangerous and damaging, but for veterans of the Troubles, the

demand of some that Peter Robinson should quit is no more than a cry

in the dark as politics here has changed too much. I don't think

that the protests are in any way a threat to Peter Robinson, or the

leadership of the DUP. Politics has changed in Northern Ireland. The

electoral system has changed. can only judge Peter Robinson by

the electoral figures. That is how you judge the success of a

political party. It is Peter Robinson that has now taken us to

being the largest unionist party. So he is not Brian Faulkner? He is

no Brian Faulkner. Much of the protest has been centred in the

East Belfast constituency of Peter Robinson. There's clear hostility

to him and the Good Friday Agreement from a post-troubles

generation of loyalists who were children when it was signed.

seen in 1998, Trimble got a massive mandate. Within a short number of

years, that turned drastically. We are seeing the same here. Peter

Robinson hounded David Trimble out of office. Peter Robinson made a

comment that the only cabinet should be made with brass handles!

Others point to clear pressures on the First Minister. It is an

extremely difficult job with his own hardliners. You have to

remember the background of that. Paisley appealing to the most

intransigent of people. What is the view from the First Minister's

office? I have had many challenges and I'm sure will have many more

challenges in the months and years ahead. Everyone recognised we were

in a process. That process will have its ups and downs. It will

have rocky moments. It is having that at the present time. I believe

the overwhelming desire of people in Northern Ireland is to have a

peaceful and stable Northern Ireland. Peter Robinson, once the

young man challenging authority, has dismissed the Ulster People's

Forum as being bankrupt of ideas after it suggested direct rule as

an alternative. He dismissed us. Not sure what word he used. He

thinks we are a couple of idiots running about on the streets. Maybe

he should get on with his work! Despite the DUP's leader call for a

halt to protests, some DUP figures have been present on the ground.

Though it is not clear if this is a party split or a political tactic

to keep grassroots on board. What is clear is that Peter Robinson's

demands for the protest to end have been ignored. I wouldn't like to be

in his position. It is extremely difficult. He does need to somehow

grasp this and really get more involved and more spelling it out

in detail as to what is needed and the sort of future that we need to

have here. Peter Robinson has begun by setting up a forum to address

grievances. One of the key players is set to contest the Mid-Ulster

by-election this spring. Willie Fraser's attempts to get elected

have failed previously. impressed by some of the young

people speaking on behalf of the demonstrators. There is obviously a

new breed of politicians coming to the fore. They may get together and

form their own political party. There is a case for it in that what

is generally referred to as the working-class loyalists people,

they don't have spokespeople in the Assembly. Those who want a peaceful,

loyalist revolution are consulting through their own forum but aren't

too sure what the future holds. don't know where I will see myself

with the Protestant community in ten weeks never mind ten years.

That is the danger. Nobody knows where this is going to go.

I'm joined by DUP MP Nigel Dodds, Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly, Stewart

Dickson from the Alliance Party and Jonny Harvey representing the PUP.

Mr Dodds, your Party Leader has said that the Ulster People's Forum

are bankrupt of ideas. What is your view on the demonstrators? What we

are seeing is they are playing out, not just of issues concerning the

Union Flag, which we oppose the taking down of the Flag, it should

be there all year-round. We led that campaign. We empathise. We

understand and lead that concern in terms of what people are saying out

there. It also is a culmination of concerns about other issues. A

number of other issues. The Union is more secure than ever. But it is

clear that Sinn Fein, through some of its tactics has decided to wage

some kind of cultural war in terms of some of the symbolism and some

of the issues that are dear to unionists' hearts. In that way,

they is stirred up a hornets' nest. It is incumbent upon Sinn Fein and

the Republicans to step back and think what damage they are doing.

We don't want to go back to direct rule. We don't want to go back to

the dark days of the past. It is a heavy responsibility on Republicans

to live up to their responsibility and not engage in this cultural

warfare that they seem to be enjoying doing far too much. It is

partly your fault, Gerry Kelly? whole debate has been centred

around this idea of Britishness. As we sit here, over 95% of all the

emblems are to do with British. The city itself is now as close to

50/50 as you will get. There is Irishness there. There is no

recognition. No idea within this forum of dealing with Irishness. Is

there an outreach project within that forum? This idea that the

whole thing is around a flag or Britishness is more perception than

it is reality. What is the protest over? The protest is over the fact

that a compromise was reached on the issue of our culture and of

Britishness and Irishness. That is what the protest is against. It is

not against the whittling away of Britishness. Jonny Harvey, you have

been central to the protests. don't think anybody is in denial.

This has been passed over as some sort of equal treatment. I don't

understand how removing the Flag from two buildings and flying it on

designated days on one other building is some sort of compromise.

That seems like a token gesture. When it comes to it, there has been

a great deal of opposition towards the DUP from the protesters. Have

you anything to say to Nigel Dodds on that tonight? What is the reason

behind the protesters having this disaffection with the DUP? There is

the perception that the DUP have marched us into this situation and

there is obviously the problem in areas like East Belfast where we

have more Alliance councillors and MLAs than we would have had. That

was felt that was a protest vote against the DUP and Peter Robinson.

Those issues are coming to the forefront. Because of that, it is

hard for the protesters to trust that party. Jonny has raised a

number of issues there. He has raised the point about more

Alliance councillors in a heavy Unionist area of Belfast. That is

an issue we all have to address. I think that we need to see more

unionists in the City Council. This wouldn't have happened had there

been more unionists in the City Council representing unionist

people. I think there are some people involved in this campaign

and in coming to the fore and they have stood for election saying the

sorts of things that have been said about wanting to go back to direct

rule, about Sinn Fein and government. They have been rejected.

Talking to some of the protesters this week, people have been saying

"no more them and us". They are talking about the DUP in their

I deal with these issues daily. I have just come from a meeting

tonight with community leaders talking about issues, not about the

flag it, but about a number of issues. People are concerned. There

is a recession. What we have got to do is work together at a community

level, civic level, political level. That is part of the reason why the

Unionist forum has been set up. not invite the protesters to the

foreign? There is a sense of urgency. It has to be said, they

made it clear they would not come. The point is that will not be

terrace because even around the table today... It is not easy

getting people together. What we have in common is support for the

union and wanting to move forward. Part of the task has got to be if

it is going to be relevant is to get out there and engaged. We have

said through task force to get out and engage with protesters, with

everybody. This will strengthen the political process as a whole. It is

good for Unionism. But this will also strengthen the political

process overall. At the end of the day, we will be in a much more

cohesive position... How you can sit there with a straight face and

arguing Unionists refusing to speak to the alliance, Sinn Fein... They

are not there. How can you with a straight face argue that this is

good fop nationalism? Because we can do two things at once. We can

talk to Unionism, we can bring Unionism together, work on the

issues of concern that are out there and have been identified by

some of us what a long time. And that the same time we can carry

forward a political process. We were in the Northern Ireland

Executive assassin who -- this afternoon... Gentlemen, Surrey.

am amazed at Nigel Dodds's description of the Forum. It seems

to be a political epiphany for the DUP and the Ulster Unionists. But

they have already discovered this week that they need to be talking

to people. That is what politics is about and that is what I have done

since I was elected in 1977. I represent people. I listen to what

they say. My opinion has moved and changed and been amended by what I

hear people asking me to do. That is how I hear this forum being

described. I hear it being described... Nigel Dodds has just a

said it is about listening to people. It is about taking their

concerns on. It is about education and all of the issues of social

deprivation and unemployment. That is what politics is about. That is

what I was elected to deliver. Sinn Fein are not going to get off the

hook tonight either. The reality is that we have the unrest of the

moment and we have other people in the background stoking up further

riches with Gerry Adams coming along and insisting on a border

poll. We do not need it. We know what the people of Northern Ireland

want. Why are you afraid of it? simply do not need one. You know as

well as I won that the people of Northern Ireland... Critic to the

vote. That is what politics is about as well -- put it to the vote.

We do not need a poll to tell us what we already know. The Mars the

majority of people want to remain in the United Kingdom -- the vast

majority. At some stage in the future, we will have an appropriate

border poll and people will be able to make the democratic decision.

The constitution issue has been settled. All of the top of wanting

to concentrate on jobs is shown to be nonsense and that is the problem.

The DUP wound the situation up in Belfast... You delivered 40,000

leaflets telling a pack of lies. That is wrong. A bit is not wrong.

It is simply wrong. We have delivered a factual situation

across Belfast. We have told people to engage politically because what

we want to do... People simply did not engaged in the way in which...

That is unfortunate. I am going to interrupt. Have you accepted that

you can only change the system if you are within the system? I think

it is important that the disaffected loyalist unionist...

Whatever you want to call them, that they are engaged in the

political process. My appear in his it is a party up works hard on the

ground. They support the people and I think the PP is one of the

parties that will deliver and hold things like the Unionist forum to

account because the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Will you

call on them to stop the protests and get it back to politics?

think people have the right to peaceful protest and we will always

support the right to that. What the protesters on the ground need to

see his re-election. What has your party been doing in terms of the

flag issue, Gerry Kelly? We come forward with a process of

reconciliation, a process of a wood engagement. The Unionist demand...

If they were really involved in reconciliation themselves, they

would be saying, OK, let us talk about this. That is not what

they're doing. Should they make a gesture now? Should the Unionists

make a gesture and all of those areas where they are flying the

flag and put the try colour Cup as well? Do we need a common policy?

Of course we do. This Unionists in a pan Unionist forum will not sit

down and resolve this issue. It happen last year. The lowest common

denominator was what came out. The main parties backed the protesters

as opposed to saying, we need more sense. That is what would happen in

this form, I guarantee you. Nigel Dodds, it is not looking good for

agreement if tonight is anything to go by. A common flag policy, is

that something that UN Sinn Fein need to sit down and workout?

Kelly completely ignored the question. His face with the fact

that what happened in Belfast was the quality, compromise. When Sinn

Fein had a chance to vote for the same thing they refused to vote for

it. The fact is that it is one policy for Belfast based on a

quality but a different policy when you are in control. That is the

problem we have with Sinn Fein one of the time. They are poking the

knife into people and annoying the Unionist community and doing it

deliberately because they know they will not get a united Ireland.

are you so nervous? We are not nervous. We want to get on with the

real issues. We want to be... The real issues are in the jobs, the

economy, young people. You are now trying to have a whole campaign

about eight border poll. Have you parties failed in not coming out

shoulder to shoulder in the way you did in the past? Should be deeply

and Sinn Fein not have come back together and tried to stop the

protest -- the DUP and Sinn Fein? Today at executive, the DUP, Sinn

Fein, Alliance Party, SDLP, we were working on the issues that affect

the people of Northern Ireland. We as a party will work with people in

communities in our areas. We have been given the trust of many people

and we will continue to work for those people strongly as I was

denied working with communities, civic leaders, political leaders...

She Sinn Fein's position in Belfast this but no flag or both flags. It

is a simple policy. What happened in Belfast was there was a

compromise offered by their alliance... That is alliance. The

protests are about compromise. I want to see a quality. I want

Irishness in the forefront along with people's Britishness. I have

no problem with Britishness. The problem is what they look on

Irishness as. What is your way forward? Clearly, what we need to

deliver on... I was disappointed to hear Peter Robinson equivocate on

the C S I strategy to today. We need showed initiative for the

future. That is the failure of Sinn Fein and the DUP here tonight.

walked away from the discussions. Because the issues could not be

resolved by both of those parties. We need to resolve the flag issue.

We need to resolve the issue about proper shared living in Northern

Ireland. We need to resolve the problem of the past. People have to

step up to the mark and deal with the very serious issues because if

they do not we will have more and more of these protests. If the

parties do not agree at Stormont how can you expect people to agree

on the streets? They will never agree on the streets. The only way

we will agree is by sitting down and talking. I have been doing that

since I was elected in 1977. Her and delighted to be in the Assembly

and take my role and I was sick to listen to representatives from all

of the other parties -- I will sit and listen. We are in the midst of

a world recession. We do not need violence. We need jobs and proper

education and a good quality health service that delivers far everybody

in Northern Ireland regardless of whether you are nationalist and

unionist, Republican... The impact of the flag protest on the economy

has been well-documented. Earlier today the estimate of the cost to

business was �15 million. It has not all been doom and gloom. When

to stay the Titanic visitor Centre said it has sold many more tickets

than expected in December. We have been down to the quarter where be

Chaplain for the area told us why it can be an example to the rest of

Northern Ireland. I think the beautiful thing about this place is

that it is steeped in history. You see the slipways and the dry docks

and all of this incredible history. It is history that is not divisive,

we share a story that we can all be fascinated by, the men that

hammered together this wonder of the world, this fascinating story

and this beautiful ship. Where we are standing now was rubble and

waste and backing 2008 until they started building the apartments and

the college bar high-dose, the office blocks, all of this stuff --

the college behind us. It is a chance for us to start afresh.

Someone said that this was the best blank page the Church has had in

Ireland. It is true for community as well. We can try to live out the

Belfast we have always dreamt of with a fresh start. Now with me now

in commentators corner... You have been helping to convince some of

the meetings to try and find a solution to the protests. How hope

for la you? We have just had a very helpful discussion -- how hopeful

are you? I am not sure after that discussion that we will come out of

the wilderness. I am hopeful and hear his wife. Working with people

in East Belfast over the past week -- here is why. I feel people do

want to find a solution to the problems. Do they want an end to

the protests? I think they are two different issues. People believe

they have the right to peaceful protest. The issue now is that the

protests are giving rise to violence and in my opinion for that

reason we need to revisit the protests and the protests need to

come to an end. They need to come to an end without creating a vacuum.

The vacuum needs to be felled by a political process and a good

community process that addresses the issues of social inequality

that Stewart referred to. You are an independent member of the

policing board. There have been claims from loyalists about prevent

to them by the police. What is your view on that? We had a briefing

today from the Chief Constable and just to summarise I think

personally the police were caught in the middle with this. They are

policing a very difficult situation. I think they need to be given some

grace but we can never accept bad policing and unprofessional

policing. Over the past 40 days, the police have got a lot of things

right, but at their own admission, they have got something's wrong.

But they were willing to engage with community workers in East

Belfast this week and hold their hands up and tried to map out a way

forward. I think that is healthy and good. How is almost playing out

in County Derry? I think people by and large would share the fears of

people in the business community and many people in other walks of

life in Northern Ireland about the damage this issue is doing to the

economy and prospects for jobs. Nigel Dodds mentioned tonight that

the real issue was the economy and jobs. An interesting phrase. Debbie

is saying that she is optimistic. My difficulty is that I am not

entirely sure what the problem is. There was a phrase in the Irish

Times this week, a dangerous incoherence on the streets of

Belfast and a sweat in Northern Ireland. I do not know whether

there the problem is about flags or alienation and chipping away of

identity. Deprivation, jobs. I am not entirely sure what the problem

is. There is confusion. I do not know for example what the people in

the task force are going to say to people. You are going to get your

flag up, you are going to get this or that. Or will we try and arrive

at a shared future in which all of the people of Northern Ireland can

live together. Social media has played an enormous part in the

protests and enabled people to find out where they are are happening.

The tweet of the week. Young people living in the most disadvantaged of

our communities are becoming embroiled and criminalised by

disturbances on our streets. Why did you pick that? Because in

saying we have the right to peaceful protest, we have to accept

the consequences. Over the past 40 days, numerous young people have

become caught up in the violence because they think it is sexy and

fun. Probably only for that reason a lot of them have got involved.

But they are being criminalised. 10, 11, 12 year olds are on the streets.

If we are really committed to a share future, if we are really

committed to rebuilding our communities, we have to be

committed to giving our young people a future. Your tweet

thankfully is a bit more light- hearted. A bit of light in the

gloom. A veteran republican, he gloom. A veteran republican, he

celebrated his 60th birthday yesterday and he tweeted... They

have got the flags mixed up. It's the thought that counts. A bit of

the thought that counts. A bit of humour in the gloom. What about the

week ahead. What will happen? Come we see an end to the protest?

Looking ahead, I want to concentrate on the Unionist forum.

What will it deliver? Who will it engage with and will it make a

difference? I think a lot of people are looking at that. Let us give it

a chance. It is the beginning of a process and I think it will engage

other political parties including Sinn Fein and the Alliance at some

stage. Protestant, Unionist communities, they need to do this

on their own at this stage. How are you looking ahead to the next week?

I am looking no for the for a ban Sunday lunchtime. The Premiership