13/06/2013 The View

Coming up on The View tonight: as Fermanagh prepares for the G8

circus to roll into town, the First Minister tells us why it's an

opportunity for Northern Ireland to shine on the global stage. This is

something that simply couldn't have happened ten, 20, 30 years ago, and

it's therefore a signal, a demonstration, that Northern

Ireland has changed and changed for the better. We're hardly strangers

to protests, but what can we expect when anarchists Ants in Pantsty

poverty activists take to the streets? With her thoughts on that

we'll hear from the International Development Secretary Clare Short.

Making a welcome return to commentators' corner to give us the

benefit of their collective wisdom are Alex Kane and Paul McFadden.

You can of course follow the programme on Twitter. That's at

@BBCtheview. "A new era for Northern Ireland and a clear signal

we've moved away from conflict to a country at peace" - the words of

our First and Deputy First Ministers in the run-up to next

week's G8 summit of world leaders in County Fermanagh, but not

everyone shares their view that the summit will showcase Northern

Ireland and deliver a lasting economic legacy. A short time ago

Peter Robinson joined me in the studio, and I began by asking him

why he thinks it's good for Northern Ireland to be hosting the

G8. Well, I think the Prime Minister put his finger on it. This

is something that simply couldn't have happened ten, 20, 30 years ago,

and it's therefore a signal, a demonstration, that Northern

Ireland has changed and changed for the better. The Prime Minister has

had the confidence to put Northern Ireland as the venue for world

leaders to come, and you don't do that unless you have a high degree

of confidence. Maybe the other reason - I'm not trying to be

controversial with this, but it is also a recognition of Northern

Ireland's place within the United Kingdom. This is a United Kingdom

choice venue, and it's good to see that the Prime Minister is standing

by Northern Ireland and recognises its importance within the union.

Martin McGuinness comfortable about that? Well, everybody knows that

this is the United Kingdom's choice. They're chairing the event, so

nobody is under any illusion that it's anything other than that. And

I think it's good that there's this recognition, and I think we're all

much more comfortable now than we ever have been before about our own

individual identities, so I don't think anybody feels uncomfortable

about that. Will you and he be putting your best foot forward

together while the G8 leaders are in Northern Ireland? We always do.

We'll be there to welcome visitors, and I can't think the number of

visitors - but we must be talking about 10,000 people coming into

Northern Ireland from outside, whether it's in the delegations or

amongst the protesters. To be honest, how much do you think the

leaders will even notice that they're in Northern Ireland? We're

holding a reception so the Prime Minister is kindly bringing the

guests in to talk to us, so we'll have the opportunity to say

something about Northern Ireland and what it has to offer. What do

you think the tangible benefits will be for Northern Ireland, plc?

I think a lot of people look at these things in pounds and pence. I

don't because for Northern Ireland, a lot of this is about reputational

enhancement. It's about doing away with the image of Northern Ireland

from the past. The only recognition that there has been of Northern

Ireland for many countries around the world has been when it was

highlighted in the news programmes during periods - where there has

been conflict and division. This is an opportunity for us to showcase

ourselves, let people see what Northern Ireland looks like, let

them see the beautiful scenery of Fermanagh and that Northern Ireland

has moved on. Do you think there is balance to strike, though, between

Northern Ireland putting its best foot forward but on the other hand

massaging the facts. There were some people from Fermanagh critical

recently about the overhaul that Enniskillen has had. They say it's

a mirage designed to give the impression of prosperity in the

town and it doesn't really tell the truthful story. Do you feel at all

uncomfortable about that? I rather imagine that you have guests coming

to your house, you'd probably clear the tea table before they come in.

It's not unusual for people to try to improve the visual amenities of

an area if they're having guests. Yeah. You might do the table, but

you might not necessarily paint the entire house. Well, it depends, I

suppose, how important the guest is to you. This is not good for

Fermanagh. They're getting things - whether it's in terms of their

internet connections, which are being improved - if there is a

physical improvement in the area, I would have thought the elected

represents and the people would be very happy about that. You've got

this meeting in Downing Street with the Prime Minister tomorrow - you

and Martin McGuinness - to finalise a package of economic measures for

Northern Ireland. What level of investment are we looking at

potentially? Everything can't be put down to pounds and pence.

Indeed, if it was, that sounds more like begging ball economics to me.

The whole purpose of what we're doing is a recognition I think on

the part of both the Government and the executive that there are two

key features to the future of Northern Ireland. One is the

economy and the other is a shared future, and what we're attempting

to do is to put in place the kind of measures - economic and fiscal

issues - that'll assist us in getting growth into our economy

over that period of time and to close the gap between our divided

communities. I've seen figures, estimates, in the past 24 hours of

this package ranging from a value of �200 million to nearly �400

million. Where do you think it might be on that scale? Again,

you're putting a price tag against each of the features. There are

features contained there that give us the ability to do things. There

are other features that allow us to borrow. There are features that

give us actual funds in our hands, so there's a whole range of

measures, and don't forget, it is a pact. It's not just what Her

Majesty's Government is doing for Northern Ireland. It's what

Northern Ireland intends to do as well, so it's pact being signed

between the Government and the executive. Will you be putting a

figure on it tomorrow, coming out and saying, there is a �200 million

pound package or potentially �300 million? It's a transparent package.

It will be an easy calculation if all that a pact means to people is

the amount of money that Northern Ireland gets. To me, it is much

more than that. I think it's important because it's much more

than that. It's enabling Northern Ireland to do things. Here is the

critical point - are you absolutely clear in your mind, and can you

reassure people watching this tonight that it will be meaningful,

that it will make a real difference to people's lives on the ground in

Northern Ireland? Of course it's beneficial. I mean, anything that

we get beyond where we are at the present time is beneficial, but we

have never argued - and I won't be arguing tomorrow either - that this

is something that replaces our desire to have what we believe to

be the game changer - namely, the ability to set our own level of

corporation tax. You're still committed to that? I am, and I

think all of us should continue to be fighting to get that, because I

think that would be the most significant change to our ability

to grow our economy. Jobs are absolutely critical. The latest

jobs figures in line with the rest of the UK, unemployment 7.8%,. What

hope will they get when this deal is signed tomorrow? I'm delighted

that the previous month it was 8.1, and it's now 7.8. It's good to see

that general direction of travel. But for the 7.8% of the population

that is unemployed and indeed for that section which would come under

the heading of economically inactive, anything that grows our

economy benefits them. This of course is an issue where you're not

in the driving seat. Let's be absolutely honest - David Cameron

is in the driving seat, and there's an argument that the Government is

- the British Government is adopting something of a carrot-and-

stick approach in all of this. The carrot is the package tomorrow, but

the stick is you and Martin McGuinness and others in the

executive have got to sort yourselves out and move forward

properly on a shared future. We saw a plan put on the table a few weeks

back. There is still a lot of that - an awful lot of that is in pencil

rather than ball-point pen. Do you accept that? First, I don't

consider it to be a carrot and a stick. I consider it to be two

carrots because this is the advocated policy of the executive

we want to move forward in terms of the economy and at the same time,

we want to have a shared, united community in Northern Ireland. So

nobody needs to have a stick to get us moving in that direction. Indeed,

I think some of our patience was shown by the Deputy First Minister

in showing that we were prepared to put our proposals out in spite of

others being critical about did process because we have hung around

for so long trying to get everybody in line and bring it forward.

did that of course. Many people saw a degree of choreograph. You tabled

your strategy shortly after the Secretary of State said that was

what she required you to do, then hey, presto, there is a big

announcement from the Treasury tomorrow. No, I think what people

would have seen if they were behind the scenes is a lot of frustration

omit of the Deputy First Minister and I about the processess grinding

so slowly there terms of getting it out. We had made it clear some

months beforehand to the Secretary of State that we were keen to get

the document out and proposals out. You put proposals on the tail, but

with respect, you set aside the difficult bits like parades, flags

and the past. We didn't set them aside. We recognised they were

difficult issues and have therefore set up a process to deal with those

difficult issues. We indicated we're setting up an all-party group

and that we were going to put an independent chairperson from

outside of the Assembly in charge of it, and we have been moving that

forward. We have met with the other party leaders. We have looked at

the list of other possible candidates and agreed on an

approach to move forward. How did that differ from the situation

before where you tried to resolve it and failed? You tried to solve

the same old problems that you weren't able to solve. Don't be

disparaging about the principle of trying again. I'm not, but the

point is you are still trying again. With a slightly different format

with the hope the independent chairperson and stake holders

involved with change and gain momentum for the process. I hope

it's important people recognise we increase the pace of resolving

outstanding issues. How hopeful are you about the forthcoming marching

season? A lot of people say if it's peaceful, we're in a much better

place. If it picks up where we left off as far as the flags dispute is

concerned, we're in real trouble? wouldn't part in any way from that

kind of thinking. It's important we do have a peaceful marching season

where people can enjoy and celebration their traditions, that

it's done in a respectful way and the same kind of tolerance is shown

to those who are marching. Do you think things look better, more

positive than they perhaps did a few months ago? I think there is a

much better feel in Northern Ireland. I don't want to use the

word "green" in terms of the green shoots in our economy. I don't want

to indicate we're now in a recovery mode, but I think there are signals

we're turning the corner. That makes people feel better, improves

the move in Northern Ireland. It gives us the kind of back-cloth

against which it is possible for us to put forward and try to increase

the pace in term of the shared future, and all of those things

combined together can give us a background against which we can

look forward to the marching season. Is that a see-change? I think it is

an improvement. But ultimately it's the people of Northern Ireland who

will decide their future. There are difficult decisions for us,

decisions we have to face, and everybody doesn't get everything

that they want whenever you come to reaching agreements, so it is

important that people are prepared to stretch themselves in order to

create a better society for our young people to grow up in. Peter

Robinson, thank you very much indeed. Thank you. So Northern

Ireland is on the verge of playing host to eight of the world's most

powerful leaders, and thousands of protesters with pop-up hotels and

pop-up prisons. The G8 chose rural Fermanagh for next Monday and

Tuesday's summit in part to avoid protesters, which is ironic, given

our history of street protests. We have been examining the politics of

protest. # Something happening here #

There is a tradition of protest in Northern Ireland, mainly involving

our own local grievances. Never, never, never. But international

issues can inspire, such as the Iraq war, when Tony Blair brought

George Bush here in a bid perhaps to avoid London protests, so what

can we expect from the G8? I think we're going to be out and about on

the highways and byways. We'll certainly be in Belfast city centre

in the afternoon. The American president is among eight leaders

from wealthy nations set to talk trade, tax and other issues.

Fermanagh's remoteness, attractive to politicians perhaps keen to

avoid angry messages about war and poverty. Fermanagh now has fences

further than the eye can see. But protesters will be kept well back

from the summit with a ring of steel around. There are concerns

there is too much focus around security and not enough on the

right to protest. Given scenes like this at other G8 summits and

arrests in London this week, the police say security is justified,

but others argue most protest is peaceful, and the real agenda is to

create fear, put people off protesting and create more powers

for police to use in future. concerned with the way in which the

right to free assembly has been arbitrarily removed apparently at

the prompting not of the politicians but of the police. I am

concerned about the fact that we're being made to get even more used to

an armed police - to armed police in a situation in the context which

has nothing to do with paramilitarism. I think the

preparation of cells to throw literally hundreds of people into -

that is an ominous sign for the future, and I think what's

particularly ominous is all of these things are happening without

any political debate. politicians who support the

legitimate protests say they've worked to ensure the police are

held to account. I think there's something like - between 43 and 47

separate police officers involved here from Britain - have signed up

to be accountable to the police ombudsman. The police ombudsman

will be able to investigate anything there. County Fermanagh is

welcoming world leaders, but what about the protesters? Regrettably,

events such as the G8 summit also attract all the malcontents and

anarchists. They see it as a window of opportunity to expression their

worst excesses. Political leaders here are already anxious that the

G8 showcases Northern Ireland at peace. I think that theation --

that the agenda for the British Government and I think for the

executive as well is to advertise Northern Ireland as a place where

people have been bought off or otherwise pacifyed, that that's no

challenge here and certainly no challenge to what the G8 represent.

I think that's a pity. Well, we have written to both the Chief

Constable, the Minister of Justice and the Secretary of State to

remind them of their responsibilities to uphold the

rights of all to freedom of speech, freedom of protest. It's really

important people feel able to exercise their right to freedom of

speech, freedom of process and to engage in this debate about where

our world is headed. These decisions are too Bigley simply to

be left to these men and women locked away from the rest of us.

This kind of security witnessed at previous summits is featured in a

film about protest movements around the world. It was screened in

Belfast this week, and the film- maker says protest movements,

bolstered by social media, are growing. The slacker generation is

growing, and I think the new generation coming up is very

energised. They're looking for solutions. They're inheriting a

world in deep trouble, especially with the climate crisis, and

they're looking for a way to change that. They're hopeful. They're

energised, and they want too make change. In Canada we have an

indigenous rights movement - the youth rising up in a way that it

has never before. That's sweeping across the world. The Turkey,

they're demonstrating against their loss of rights. The anti-austerity

movement is strong. But the mood among the students we spoke to at

the college in Enniskillen was very different, welcoming the G8 with no

sign of protest. I think it can only bring good. The protesters

will be the only bad thing. think the G8 will bring good things

to your country? It will put Enniskillen on the map. They have

brightened the whole place up. It looks prettier. What about the

protest? Will you be protesting? Why not? I don't see the point in

it. Protesters are mostly expected to come from outside the county.

Fermanagh seems focused to playing host to rich nations in hopes of

attracting the wealth, leaving rock stars to record a new video...

# There is something happening here # What it is ain't exactly clear #

Martina Purdy reporting there. Joining me from our studios in

Birmingham is the former International Development Secretary

Clare Short. Thank you very much for joining us on the programme.

Let me ask you, would you expect this summit in Northern Ireland

next Monday and Tuesday to be the focus of a major protest? Well,

it's a guess, but I suspect there will be some, but not very big. I

think there is a funny mood. I mean, if you remember, the big anti-

globalisation protests from Seattle, the World Trade Organisation, and

there was a mood of big demonstrations amongst all of these

international meetings - I think that subsided a bit as people have

become so anxious about their own situation. I don't think people are

happy, but the mood isn't quite so angry and getting on the streets.

That's my guess - that there will be some, but not enormous. May it

also not be as huge as it might have been elsewhere because

Fermanagh is quite remote? Many people say that's precisely why

David Cameron chose it. I'm sure - I think those two things. He wanted

to celebrate peace in Northern Ireland - indeed, show it off, but

they now always look for somewhere remote where they can put up the

fences and not have any trouble. The last one was in Gleneagles - a

golfing place, you know, in a beautiful part of Scotland. The one

before that was in Birmingham when the protests went as usual. In fact,

that was when we were all having the debt campaigns and Clinton went

for a beer on one of the streets in the middle of the city, but since

then, whichever country hosts it, they look for a remote place

because there's been all of these angry anti-globalisation protests,

and now people are anxious about the general state of the world and

the crisis in finance and the climate and the Middle East and the

danger of violence, so remote spots for G8 meetings - that's the

pattern everywhere. Remote, of course, everybody would agree, but

Peter Robinson was making the point earlier in the programme - I think

you heard him, when he said, very beautiful, and there is a

tremendous opportunity for Northern Ireland to be seen on the global

stage in a positive light. Is he right about that, or is there a

danger perhaps of our politicians overplaying that? I think it's true

- the meeting's come to Northern Ireland to celebrate the peace.

That is there, and people will all be reminded. But of course, you

know, did Birmingham get any lasting benefit when it was in

Birmingham? Did Gleneagles? I think they're all behind their fences for

a couple of days, and then they go away, so it is will have a bit of

benefit, but I don't think enormous. How concerned are you at the issue

of civil rights? We heard from Mr McCann in that report expressing

the concerns about draconian police preparations, as he sees them, with

no public debate in advance. Do you have any reservations about that?

think there is a general tightening of security across the world, and

in the UK. The right to demonstrate and express opinions is now much

more restricted and fenced in, and I think that's deeply regrettable,

but that's the mood of the world. I think it isn't just because it's

Northern Ireland. I mean, they have just arrested a lot of people in

London who were planning some kind of protest, so I'm afraid security

is taking over our civil liberties everywhere, and we should be

concerned about it. You're a former International Development Secretary.

You served in that position for quite a few years - a decade and

more ago. Do you think anything more substantial can come out of G8

summits today? Well, on this one, Cameron is trying to drive some

progress on transfer pricing and the fact that all the big companies

avoid paying their taxes by taking them off to tax havens - and that's

surely a good thing to do - they have committed some money in a big

package about doing something about hunger across the world, and we

should be in favour of that. They're trying to get all over the

world people to be more transparent about oil and mining because in all

countries where you've got new oil and mining, you tend to get

problems of corruption, and so on, so I think some good will come of

it, yes. What about G8 itself? Is it as powerful an organisation as

it was a number of years ago - no India, no China, no South American

countries? No, no. It used to be the G7, then it became G8 with

Russia at the end of the Soviet Union, but the big one now is the

G20 when Brazil is there, South Africa and so on. The power is

moving from the G8 to the G20, and you can't really talk about running

the world without having China, India, you know? These two

countries - that's a fifth of humanity in each of them, rising

economically, and Brazil rising. It's the G2020 that's the big one

now. A final word from you now - what should we be doing in Northern

Ireland over the next few days? Basking in the international

attention as Peter Robinson wants us to do? Then move on? A bit of

basking is a good idea and a bit of protesting too. Strike the balance.

Yeah. Clare Short, thank you very much indeed for joining us from

Birmingham tonight. Good to talk to you. Well, the impending G8 summit

- we have had our interview with the First Minister at the top of

the hour as well. There is lots to talk about in Commentators' Corner.

Alex Kane and Paul McFadden are with me. Good evening to you both.

Let's talk about the First Minister first. What struck you about his

thoughts on the programme tonight? Statesman-like? What struck me - he

delivered it all with dead-pan enthusiasm - Eeyore rather than a

big bouncing Tigger - everything is graimt. You will to get everything

out of him. The only interesting thing that came out of that is the

suggestion if he were important enough he was going to clear his

table and paint his house to welcome you. Nothing else stood out

to me. It was strange. Paul? I was interested in the fact that he was

talking about there being a much better feel in Northern Ireland

than the early days. He was talking about these saying that were

turning the corner - green chutes of recovery. The summer and the

years ahead will tell a tale about that. Comments on Twitter have been

interested in his comments about Northern Ireland being a more

positive place than it was a few short months ago. What do you think

about that? They always say that. Anything something is going to

happen, they say something positive - MMTV, the G8, West Life's world

tour - they always say it's a great sign. There could be a considerable

amount of egg on his face at the start of the summer, so to come out

and say something as optimistic as that, to use dangerous language, is

a brave thing to do. I don't think it's optimism. I think it's bare-

faced ignoring reality. Sometimes they just have to say it's not

going to be as good as it is and this whole G8 thing is not going to

result - they talk about the Trangable benefits - in fact I

think he said intangible benefits, whatever that's supposed to mean.

Let's move on to stories of week. was tempted to talk about the

return of the pageant in Derry which was a fantastic success last

weekend. We also had the announcement of Ireland's first

brain mapping centre, but the thing that stopped me in my tracks this

week was the sad story about the death by suicide of the Turf Lodge

priest priest, Father Matt Wallace. I think we tend - in the past many

of us have put priests and Ministers on pedestals. We take

them as almost super-human figures. The tragic circumstances of his

death showed to us that priests, Ministers, clergymen and women are

human like the rest of us. That kind of a thing fires a shot across

our bows maybe. It certainly affected a lot of people. Great to

see his funeral that was held by his parishioners and further afield.

Your story of the week? Mine continues from the G8 thing about

the tourism thing, how they see Northern Ireland. Robinson saying

he would bring them in and talk to them about it. It's all good and

well saying come see Northern Ireland, where you're closing the

roads, building pop-up prisons, pop-up courts - it's a very surreal

world they're creating. No-one will actually see Northern Ireland

because they won't be allowed to. lot of them will make trips. Obama

will come to the water front. Should we get a mock-up of Martin

McGuinness... Someday we'll get them side by side. Tweet of the

suggestion. I think people could be having to make a very early start

to breakfast over the next few weeks. Your Tweet of the week?

is from a parody site. Very interesting that the parody site

has almost as many followers as the real site. In our case, it's very

difficult to tell which one - Basil actually said tonight you had to

point out to people that the parody one wasn't his.

He had a tough old time in the polygamy debate on did radio.

was lovely because from the launch you had people wanting to know

whether the 21 and NI21 was the number of wives - I just love that.

What are you looking forward to in the week ahead? I think it's the

whole Nellie Osmond thing - clearly, he may not die this week, but I

think what you can perceive not only in South Africa but across the

world is the sense of what's going to happen -- Nelson Mandela. He is

holding that nation together. It's very fractious. At the minute - he

was still up until recently - his mere presence - a few words from

him could calm the situation. I worry when he's not there, what's

going to happen. It could be very, very dangerous. Paul? Something

actually happened over the next couple of days - I am looking

forward to meeting a journalistic icon, Robert Fisk. Here? Maybe not

quite enjoying the same stature you do! I have the privilege of

speaking to him at an event Saturday night in the Guild Hall,

so it's a conference open to public, open to attend. Speakers come...

He's a bit of a controversial figure. He is. He has his fans and

critics. They even coined a verb in his honour, to Fiske, which is to