Browse content similar to 03/04/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, the First Minister unveils his "nuclear option" to solve the | :00:00. | :00:27. | |
welfare reform stalemate. Handing back powers to Westminster. People | :00:28. | :00:37. | |
are capable of governing -- if people are not capable of governing, | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
that power should not be devolved. Why should a person needing the best | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
hip operation, best cancer drugs, why should be the vanished? -- why | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
should those people be punished? Peter Robinson attacks his coalition | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
partners, condemns the on-the-runs deal and describes Gerry Adams as a | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
negative influence at Stormont. Plus we are all minorities now. As a | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
new report suggests Belfast's protestant majority has gone, how | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
will politicians deal with the new reality? The chair of the Community | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
Relations Council joins me live in the studio. | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
And with plenty to say on all of that, we'll hear from our | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
commentator double-act of Cathy Gormley- Heenan and Newton Emerson. | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
And you can, of course, join the debate on Twitter. That's | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
@BBCtheview. The First Minister has weighed into | :01:21. | :01:29. | |
the welfare reform row, angry at what he sees as the intransigence of | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
Sinn Fein on the issue. Mr Robinson has upped the stakes by discussing | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
what he calls his "nuclear options". Among them, the handing back of | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
certain powers to Whitehall. Earlier today, I went to Stormont Castle to | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
talk to Peter Robinson. I began by asking him to explain the agreement | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
on welfare reform he thought he'd reached with Martin McGuinness. We | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
sat down with Sinn Fein and, for a period of six to nine months, we | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
looked at the issues concerning both them and others in terms of the | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
sharper edges of welfare reform. We negotiated a package, which had the | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
removal of what is known as the Bedroom Tax for anybody in a | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
property in Northern Ireland. And we agreed that we should have a | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
contingency fund and we looked at putting aside up to 30 or ?40 | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
million to deal with the special hardship cases that would flow from | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
it. As with any other set of negotiations, the Sinn Fein | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
representatives have to go back to their party, and I have to go back | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
to mine. We got approval from the Democratic Unionist Party from the | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
package, Sinn Fein was not able to get agreement from their party for | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
the package. And in the 11 months since then, they have never come | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
back to us to ask for any further changes, nor have they succeeded in | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
all of their negotiations with the British government in getting any | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
changes to the process at all. Did you believe that Martin McGuinness | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
and his team locally here at Stormont had agreed to a deal? I | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
would not take any package to my party colleagues I was not satisfied | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
with myself. So you felt he was satisfied with the compromises | :03:25. | :03:32. | |
within that agreement? Neither of us were saying it was brilliant, but | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
both recognise this was the best that could be made of it, providing | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
the best welfare package in the whole of the United Kingdom. And it | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
is your belief you took that agreement to the wider party and | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
they said no? It is not my belief, it is my knowledge. He asked me to | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
meet him on a Saturday when he informed me that was the case, 11 | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
months ago, in May of 2013, and in the intervening months, there have | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
been no changes negotiated by Sinn Fein or the SDLP for that matter, | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
and we have a final position, so let's remove this nonsense that | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
people are still going on about that some hope we can go back and | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
negotiate further. We have our final position from the Treasury, past the | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
point of any return. The position has been set out in letter. The cuts | :04:24. | :04:31. | |
have already begun. Does that leave due to the conclusion that Martin | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
McGuinness has had his wings clipped within Sinn Fein wish and Mark -- | :04:35. | :04:44. | |
within Sinn Fein? Things have changed, and massively | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
over the last year also, with the rise of Sinn Fein. | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
over the last year also, with the clear that they are having | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
difficulty in having a party in government in Northern Ireland and | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
the party in opposition in the South. And the reality is the | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
sensible things that you need to do and have to do, and some of them | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
require difficult decisions, here in Northern Ireland, because we are in | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
government, the sort of dry curry in the south, economic illiteracy in | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
the side, in terms of their opposition position, they will not | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
allow sensible positions to be taken in Northern Ireland, because it | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
might shore up the position adopted in the side. Alex Maskey is says you | :05:28. | :05:34. | |
seem to be replacing the Ulster Unionist Party as the Tory's party | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
in the North with a welfare state manifesto? We will go forward with | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
pragmatic decisions, which are manifesto? We will go forward with | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
necessary. Not burying our head in the sand. The fact is if Sinn Fein | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
does not accept the reality of the situation in terms of the budget | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
cuts taking place, online services in Northern Ireland will be hit, | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
that is not avoidable, the money is out of our budget, we have to reduce | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
spending because they are being penalised by not putting forward the | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
enhanced welfare package. That is if you except Danny Alexander's | :06:18. | :06:27. | |
position... Do not accept? You are a mature and intelligent man, do not | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
try to be selling. That is what Sinn Fein says. You should know better | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
than to put ludicrous positions like that. Nobody believes them. Nobody | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
could believe them. The Treasury has already taken the money I. How many | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
times do I have to say the money is not there? -- taken the money out. | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
There is already a reduction in the budget. It has already happened. So | :06:55. | :07:03. | |
this is not a DUP administration, it is a coalition of five parties, so | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
you and Martin McGuinness hold considerable sway, there seems to be | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
no agreement between the two of you on this position. How do we move | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
forward from here? You are seeing it has to happen, he says it is not | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
happening. What happens next? Let us also remember we had the bases on | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
which we could move forward which she could not sell to colleagues. | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
which we could move forward which The reality is the cuts have taken | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
place. -- which he could not sell. I am of the few we cannot have cuts in | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
the health service. It has to be protected. But we need to have | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
serious discussions within the executive right now, we cannot wait | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
until the elections are over, until the summer is over, those decisions | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
need to be taken now as to where the cuts will be imposed. The position | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
of champagne is by implementing these cuts, -- the position of Sinn | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
Fein is by implementing these cuts, you are taking money out of the | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
local economy. This is economic illiteracy. There was a trajectory, | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
which I will try to explain simply in case anyone from Sinn Fein is | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
watching, the trajectory for increase in benefits was something | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
of that order, but it is going to be increasing at a lower level under | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
the new level. The money they are talking about is the differential | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
between the perfect world and what is the case, not money coming out of | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
the economy of Northern Ireland, it will not be there, though there is | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
no loss of ?450 million topped about by some Sinn Fein representatives. | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
-- topped about. This is mythical money. You topped last night about | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
the nuclear option. If necessary. What are those options? If I start | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
wheeling them out, and there are a whole series of options we can | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
consider, and indeed probably most Biba that know how government | :09:08. | :09:09. | |
operates knows what those options might be. But if I start wheeling | :09:10. | :09:18. | |
them out, then I am threatened... But the phrase nuclear op and sounds | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
very threatening, so you need to be clear. Front line services cannot | :09:23. | :09:29. | |
take the cuts. Therefore we will have a penalty to pay. You cannot | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
ignore it, you cannot spend as if the penalty was not imposed upon us. | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
The money will not be there for us to use and if we go through spending | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
limits, let's be clear what happens, the amount that we spend over what | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
was allocated is taken of the following year, lust for the penalty | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
is imposed upon us. So this is not something we can dodge, it is | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
something we have to deal with. I suppose that is one of the economic | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
nuclear options, what about the political nuclear option? When the | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
bull here a phrase like that, they feel there may be some political -- | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
when people hear a phrase like that, they may feel there is some | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
political dimensional. Any option we talk about is politics, this is all | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
about politics, and can be simple saying to the government, this | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
government is not competent to take difficult decisions, because two of | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
the parties in the five particle addition are not prepared to take | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
difficult decisions, therefore you have to take this option, -- this | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
office, and some people including myself arguing that from the | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
beginning, that in areas where there should be parroted it should not be | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
devolved. That is one option. -- there should be parity. And are you | :10:50. | :10:58. | |
coming to that view that that is what is necessary? | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
If people are not capable of governing, that power should be | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
double. Why should the person who needs a hip operation, the person | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
who needs the best cancer drugs, why should those people be punished | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
because the SDLP and Sinn Fein are not prepared to take difficult | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
decisions? Are you saying that the political mature at the required to | :11:25. | :11:26. | |
run Northern Ireland for ourselves does not exist at the moment and one | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
of the options has to be that you go back to the Secretary of State and | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
Prime Minister and say you have done your best and cannot do any more? It | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
is clear that this moment it does not exist with all the parties that | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
unnecessarily apart. That was one of the nuclear options. Another is to | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
recognise that we will not be prepared to sign up to any budget | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
next year on the prepared to sign up to any budget | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
the fact that there is a reduced budget available to us. And | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
therefore we would not agree that budget in those circumstances, then | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
the permanent secretary of the Department of finance has to step in | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
and people will only have 95% of their previous year's budget | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
available and the remainder will pay for the penalties, so they will not | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
dodge it one way or the other. It would get you and Sinn Fein off the | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
hook if we went back to direct rule for a time. Got everything up and | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
running again then said we are in the straight and narrow, you can | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
reconstitute yourselves as a devolved administration. We are | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
talking about two things. You are suggesting a further option, one | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
that would be contemplated only in the most dire circumstances. I am | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
that would be contemplated only in talking about the government taking | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
back particular devolved powers. The power that has not been exercised | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
properly by Sinn Fein and the SDLP, because they are refusing to deal | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
with the realities and that particular power could be taken | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
back. It is not available in Scotland or Wales, Northern Ireland | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
alone has that power as a devolved government. That is why Scotland and | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
Wales are looking at other issues and presently and of the new regime | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
taking place in England. An important subject in terms of what | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
you heard yesterday presumably about the alleged actions from the NIO | :13:25. | :13:35. | |
regarding OTRs. We have Gerry Adams called Number 10 saying he wanted | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
Gerry McGeough released, we hear Number 10 contacted the PSNI to make | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
that case, that is part of an ongoing select committee enquiry, | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
obviously, but quite a reaction already to some of what we heard | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
yesterday. How did you regard it? Surprised? Surprised would indicate | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
I did not believe that Gerry Adams would be capable of attempting to | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
get anybody to bypass the normal policing and judicial processes, so | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
I am not surprised that that kind of activity, I do recall when we were | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
dealing with policing and justice, how we were all being lectured that | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
it was essential to have a process where there was operational | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
independence on the part of the police, so if at the end of the | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
enquiry, the enquiry concludes that there was that interference, then | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
there are questions to be asked and answered by Downing Street, The | :14:31. | :14:31. | |
Northern Ireland Office and answered by Downing Street, The | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
the then Chief Constable or whoever it was made contact with Norman | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
Baxter on that occasion. You talked about Gerry Adams' role in that | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
reported series of telephone conversations and you said you | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
weren't surprised at it. How would you sum up Gerry Adams' influence | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
over Stormont at the moment? He is the president of Sinn Fein, he is a | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
member of the parliament in a different jurisdiction, but does he | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
still have an influence over Sinn Fein in this building? | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
Unquestionably, and it's a very negative influence. (xxx) I know in | :15:08. | :15:17. | |
terms of getting decisions taken. The decisions we might take might | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
cause difficulties for Gerry Adams and his colleagues. I know some of | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
the changes taking place within personnel in Sinn Fein, more | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
hard-line people of being brought in, people more akin to Gerry | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
Adams' position, to ensure the Stormont politicians of Sinn Fein | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
behave themselves. It is a very damaging influence. Do you think | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
Martin McGuinness is less hardline than Gerry Adams, more of a | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
pragmatic politician? I think there's a much more pragmatic | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
approach from Martin McGuinness. He recognises what he needs to do. I | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
just think there are deep divisions within Sinn Fein that are causing | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
great difficulties to the process we are involved in. Finally, what would | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
you say to people watching this interview who would say, frankly, | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
I've had a belly full of the whole thing. As far as politicians are | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
concerned, a plague on all their houses, and one thing I will not be | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
doing on May the 22nd is encouraging them by voting for them, I want | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
doing on May the 22nd is encouraging nothing to do with it? Undoubtedly | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
there are some people who take this self-righteous position. But who are | :16:24. | :16:32. | |
the politicians? The politicians are the people they elect to take the | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
position is that they do. This isn't a position adopted by Peter Robinson | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
or Martin McGuinness for that matter. These are positions adopted | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
by the people that we represent. These are their views being | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
represented. But you also have to lead. And I have offered that | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
leadership. Difficult though it is, there are certain decisions that | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
have to be taken. There are other people failing in leadership but | :16:58. | :17:08. | |
it's not me. If you your thoughts on what the First Minister have to say, | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
you can tweet us. We will hear the thoughts of | :17:12. | :17:13. | |
you can tweet us. We will hear the in the programme. There has been | :17:14. | :17:14. | |
peace without reconciliation, according to a new report which | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
predicts trouble ahead if politicians don't stop managing the | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
changing face of Belfast. That's one of the conclusions in the latest | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
Peace Monitoring report. Martina Purdy has been examining some of its | :17:26. | :17:32. | |
stock conclusions. -- stark conclusions. | :17:33. | :18:19. | |
Belfast is a city in transition. It's also a divided city, divided by | :18:20. | :18:27. | |
walls, divided even by this river. On the east bank you have a solidly | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
Protestant unionist population. On the West, solidly nationalist and | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
Catholic. But it's not a simple picture, as there are significant | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
pockets of unionists across the north, west and south of the city. | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
But the Catholic population is young, with numbers rising to 49%. | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
The Protestant population is older and passing away and has dropped to | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
42%. Belfast is at a tipping point, says this academic, who sees | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
connection between the changing population and the row over the | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
Union flag in the city. Dell fast changed. It changed from having a | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
Protestant majority, which is what it is what it's always hard, two for | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
the first time, the Protestant population being in a minority. | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
Those figures were published in December 2012. They were published a | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
week after the vote was taken in Belfast City Council. So it's not as | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
if the people who came out to protest about the flag decision had | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
read those figures and decided to come out and protest about them. | :19:30. | :19:36. | |
Actually, sometimes people can act like human sensors. They pick up | :19:37. | :19:39. | |
what's happening underneath their feet. They pick up the vibration, | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
the earthquake that was happening. That earthquake is one of the themes | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
of this academic's peace report. That earthquake is one of the themes | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
describes young Protestant men, a quarter of them are jobless, as a | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
seedbed for trouble, as they risk alienation and being drawn into a | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
cultural conflict. But in north Belfast, a loyalist says he dislikes | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
language like this, particularly words such as tipping point. I think | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
that's dangerous language and over sympathising the problem by an | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
academic. The problems are probably very similar. Youth unemployment, | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
social issues, housing, regeneration problems. But at this protest camp | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
in North Belfast there is a sense of cultural warfare. They've taken over | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
our flag at City Hall, the demonisation of our culture will | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
stop these are all things... It is basically similar to someone coming | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
into your house, rearranging the furniture, it makes you feel very | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
uncomfortable. While Catholics still suffer deprivation, Catholic schools | :20:50. | :20:51. | |
are excelling, providing a route out of poverty. This problem was still | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
going to bubble up because we've got inequality. We've got a section of | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
our population, young Protestant males, who have no boots out of | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
their poverty. And they experience it as inequality. The experience | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
alienation. That will erupt. Both the academic and a loyalist agree | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
there is a lack of vision and leadership coming from politicians | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
at Stormont. Unionist politicians say this nationalist commentator are | :21:21. | :21:22. | |
fighting a losing battle against change. It's been like King Canute. | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
They are trying to force backed the nationalist tide and it has failed. | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
All unionist politicians know the statistics quite well. They know | :21:32. | :21:33. | |
exactly where it's heading. They statistics quite well. They know | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
know the only outcome can be accommodation and reconciliation. As | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
it points out in the report, there is peace but there's no attempt at | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
whatsoever. Belfast is a colourful canvas for the artists. Cultural | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
tensions between the Protestant loyal orders and Catholics are | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
captured in the work of this nor best -- of Belfast artist, Jo | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
McWilliams. But there's another picture from South Belfast artist | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
Susan Hughes. Her exhibition has just opened at Stormont, called the | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
quiet peacemakers. One of them says politicians alone can't bring | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
peace, so what is missing? The acknowledgement of the peacemakers | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
that exist and perhaps a connective nurse because of that. Maybe we need | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
to get ourselves together and make sure we know what each other is | :22:26. | :22:27. | |
doing. But that sure we know what each other is | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
that comes from each other would make a big difference. That then | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
makes us stronger to those in leadership. There are young people | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
like these who are working to build bridges. They feel weighed down by | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
their parents generation, a lack of support from politicians and | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
negative language. Our young people are feeling like they are holding | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
everybody else's past honest shoulders. They are feeling they are | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
trying to move forward and be positive and trying to have a shared | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
space and future, but there are certain things holding them back. | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
What's your vision for the city? Just that a new light would shine on | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
it. Martina Purdy on the latest Peace Monitoring report, which was | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
commissioned by the Community Relations Council, whose | :23:21. | :23:21. | |
commissioned by the Community Peter Osborne, is with me now. Young | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
Protestant males in particular seem to feel unnerved by recent | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
demographic changes in Belfast. What is the CRC doing to address that? | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
There are two issues that spring to mind when I look at that report. | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
First, the healing and reconciliation impulses very strong | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
amongst many people in this community, young and old alike, from | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
both sides as well. I see that when I go out and meet groups on the | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
ground. Secondly, we are living in a city of minorities. That is | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
demonstrated clearly in the 2011 Census. And we live in a region of | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
minorities. It's important to recognise that because it could have | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
a positive influence. Our politics and society and relationships very | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
often have been dictated by a fear of domination from one side or the | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
other. The fact of the matter is we are living in a region of | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
minorities, and that might have a positive impact about how we work | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
with each other. The report suggests the number of people wanting to live | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
in mixed communities has fallen on previous years. That is a pretty | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
terrible indictment on the work of the Community Relations Council in | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
recent years. What have you been doing? For many years we've been | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
supporting a lot of positive work on the ground across the community | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
divide with people who are champions in their areas. What they would tell | :24:45. | :24:46. | |
me is reaching political agreement is one thing, and a very substantial | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
agreement, but are difficult, complex and really challenging work | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
is peace building on the ground. The people who do that work on the | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
ground, very often supported by the Community Relations Council, tell me | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
they are prepared to take reasonable risks to build peace on the ground. | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
They want to see politicians also take reasonable risks to sustain the | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
political process. That's a challenge for everybody. But has | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
that work paid off? We heard that working-class Protestant males in | :25:20. | :25:21. | |
particular still feel alienated, they feel there is a cultural war | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
being waged against them. They are not happy, they are reaching out for | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
somebody to help them and there seems to be also a lack of political | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
leadership. Sure, and we need to address those issues and take those | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
issues seriously. I don't see the evidence of cultural war on the | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
ground in terms of numbers of parades all the funding that goes | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
into those organisations. Do you accept that is their perception? I | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
accept that perception. The report makes it clear, a fantastic report | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
for the third year in a row, if there is a perception that it needs | :25:57. | :26:04. | |
addressing. Dialogue and understanding the relationships and | :26:05. | :26:05. | |
building trust other things that need to happen to address those | :26:06. | :26:08. | |
issues. Is it time for political leaders within unionism and loyalism | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
to stop telling young Protestant they are losing out and that their | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
culture is under attack? In terms of the education issues and achievement | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
and the future in terms of young people, whether they be Protestant | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
or Catholic from disadvantaged communities, we need to acknowledge | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
and recognise there is a significant issue around and achievement. We | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
need to do something about it quickly. We also need to acknowledge | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
the need for greater investment in those schools that are working in | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
areas where there is significant disadvantage. In England there is a | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
Pupil Premium for those schools, recognising the additional work that | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
is needed. And we also need to recognise there are significant, | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
multifaceted issues within schooling and the school system, as well as | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
outside the gates that need to be addressed in terms of communities, | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
families and support for those young people. If you've got to join up the | :26:59. | :27:06. | |
dots, to encourage politicians to join up the dots, what does the CRC | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
recommend needs to be done now by government to make the community | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
that we've identified, that this report identifies, as feeling | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
alienated, to make it feel more valued and to seek its achievement | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
levels increase? Elected representatives need to understand | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
that squabbles at Stormont do undermine trust in institutions. | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
People want to see the institutions working fairly, but they want to see | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
them delivering results. It's interesting you just said that given | :27:35. | :27:36. | |
what we've just interesting you just said that given | :27:37. | :27:45. | |
Robinson is saying. I don't want to get into the detail of welfare | :27:46. | :27:47. | |
reform, but people need to understand the impact of that in the | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
community. In 1998, 70% of people voted in the assembly elections, it | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
dropped in the last elections. Complacency and indifference is the | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
enemy of the peace process and political processes. We need to | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
address that. But we also need a strategy in government. We are | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
looking at the shared future. Frankly, there is limited ambition | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
at times. Where there is significant ambition, we need to have long-term | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
commitment to make that happen. Adequate resources to make that | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
happen, which I don't see in the medium term in years three, four, | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
five, six and beyond. That needs to happen from government to achieve | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
those sort of targets. We really do need to resource and take those | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
targets seriously. We will leave it there. An interesting insight into | :28:33. | :28:34. | |
where we are there. An interesting insight into | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
for interesting reading. Peter Osborne, thank you for joining us. | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
Let's find out what our commentators have to say about what they've heard | :28:44. | :28:51. | |
this evening. Let's talk about Peter Robinson's attack on Sinn Fein's | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
position on welfare reform. Why tonight? The most significant thing | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
was his acknowledgement of the importance in our politics now. I | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
wonder if Peter Robinson wasn't trying to send a message to the | :29:07. | :29:09. | |
southern Sinn Fein constituency himself, about what it means to have | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
Sinn Fein in government and their attempts to ride two horses at the | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
same time. Both parties are over emphasising the attention of the | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
southern electorate. But there is clearly a difficulty for Sinn Fein. | :29:24. | :29:25. | |
Many commentators have said it, in clearly a difficulty for Sinn Fein. | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
government, in Northern Ireland, in opposition in the Republic. But to | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
an extent it's a problem Sinn Fein has caused for itself. The tale of | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
these mythical cuts, which we have never experienced. And it gets | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
criticised by its Labour party rivals in particular in the south or | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
incrementing these cuts that don't actually exist. Cathy, Alex Maskey | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
is already disputing Peter Robinson's figures on Twitter. Sinn | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
Fein is unhappy with what Peter Robinson has said. Alex Maskey says, | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
the First Minister would be better standing up to the Tory cuts rather | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
than trying to explain away what he describes as an assault on the poor, | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
disabled and unemployed. I'm sure is Sinn Fein will be unhappy tonight, | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
but a lot of academics, community and voluntary sector organisations | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
that have also been arguing about the impact of these cuts in Northern | :30:19. | :30:20. | |
Ireland will also be really the impact of these cuts in Northern | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
There was an element of scaremongering if you don't agree, | :30:27. | :30:28. | |
here is where the cuts will fall hardest. I don't think that was | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
particularly helpful. Following on from last week's interview with | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
Sammy and Alex and then this tonight, what we need now is some | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
sort of drastic intervention by Westminster because we are going | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
nowhere fast with this tit-for-tat, back and forward disagreement about | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
who agreed to what and so on. The bottom line is this. We don't have a | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
la cart devolution. They can't pick and choose which bits of devolution | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
they like best. And discard those that are unpalatable or leave a bad | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
taste in their mouths. The First Minister outlined a scenario whereby | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
certain fiscal powers could be handed back. That's a non-runner as | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
far as you are concerned? Practically, without legislation | :31:13. | :31:13. | |
being enacted in Practically, without legislation | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
that. The DUP can't do that on its own. That is Peter Robinson | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
conjuring up a scenario. It's a doomsday scenario. It runs contrary | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
to the ethos of what devolution was supposed to deliver, which was local | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
responsibility for local issues. Is the keyword to understanding all of | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
this elections? I still believe so. There are elections in the south to | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
get out of the way as well, then perhaps things would be expected to | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
move on. More pressingly, we've got elections here in six weeks, too. | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
Daily I'm starting to believe that Peter Robinson believes this is a | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
permanent blockage, due to the importance of the South to Sinn | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
Fein. Perhaps this is something which could drag on after the | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
summer. I don't think anybody watching tonight who's not a | :32:05. | :32:07. | |
traditional DUP watching tonight who's not a | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
supporter of Peter Robinson will be endeared by the comments made | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
tonight, because some of them were very disparaging and mean. There was | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
a mean streak to some of it. Let's talk about the economic illiteracy. | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
Let me experience -- explain it in clear terms. That didn't come across | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
very well. He's obviously angry and frustrated. I thought he sounded | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
plausible. He certainly believes that Sinn Fein has prioritised the | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
South over everything. What about Gerry Adams' comments about that | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
negative influence up at Stormont? Gayle anyone you speak to about | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
Stormont politics says you can't put a paper between Martin McGuinness | :32:50. | :32:52. | |
and Gerry Adams. They might have done this nice cop, nasty cop | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
routine on Peter Robinson, but I think that's just Peter Robinson | :32:58. | :32:58. | |
making a bit of trouble. think that's just Peter Robinson | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
merry before the election. A quick word about demographic changes in | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
Belfast. It requires an adjustment in the thinking of a lot of people. | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
It does. The concern is around young males, young Protestant males in the | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
city and that under achievement. It's not just educational | :33:20. | :33:21. | |
underachievement. It's that feeling of loss and not having something to | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
aspire to and live to. That's the big problem I think our politicians | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
will have to address. If it were me and I was a Unionist politician | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
going door-to-door and seeking votes, I'd be concerned that was a | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
question I'd be asked by a voter, what are you doing for my son? The | :33:39. | :33:44. | |
fact is that this earthquake, which you would have expected to be very | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
serious, hasn't really been a fiasco. It hasn't sent the city up | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
in flames. It's fascinating stuff. Happy birthday to you. Looking very | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
glamorous because she's going out on the town. That's it from us this | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
week. Join me on Sunday at 1130 a.m. On BBC One. | :34:04. | :34:05. |