10/04/2014 The View

Tonight: Pomp and ceremony, white tie and tails, and toasts to the

Queen. What does Sinn Fein hope to gain from its participation in the

state visit of President Higgins to London?

He's paid official of the British government essentially. What is

stopping him going into Westminster. The Secretary of State tells us

there's no need to intervene in the political stand-off here and

condemns a former Tory Party chairman for his views on Martin

McGuinness. I recognise that Lord Tebbit himself

has suffered very grievously at the hands of terrorists but nothing can

justify calling on people to commit murder.

Plus live from London we talk to the Health Minister, Edwin Poots, about

managing continuing crises in the health service. With plenty to say

on all of that I'm joined by commentators Cathy Gormley-Heenan

and Newton Emerson. And you can, of course, join the debate on Twitter -

that's @BBCtheview. President Michael D Higgins' state

visit to the UK is coming to a close in London tonight. The Queen and the

President hosted a Northern Ireland-themed reception at Windsor

earlier this evening and now the Royal Albert Hall is packed for an

event celebrating Ireland's musical heritage. Among the guests at both

were MLAs and Executive Ministers from all parties as well as

Secretary of State, Theresa Villiers. When she came into our

Westminster studio earlier, I began by asking for her verdict on

Presidential visit. I think it has been a success. It

has been a great opportunity to celebrate the transformation in the

relationship between the UK and Ireland. Relations have never been

better and stronger and this was also a great chance to celebrate the

contribution that Irish men and women have made an life in Britain

over many centuries. The think it has helped to

recalibrate the relationship? I think it reaffirms the strong

partnership on all sorts of matters. I work closely with counterparts in

Dublin and Northern Ireland on mutual interest but there is also a

focus on boosting our economies. We are huge markets for each other and

this -- face the same challenges. Were you personally surprised at my

McGuinness' decision to attend and toast the Queen?

I certainly hoped that the Sinn Fein decision would be that the Deputy

First Minister would do that so when the decision came out I wasn't

hugely surprised. I welcomed that step forward by Sinn Fein.

There are clearly some victims that are very unhappy that the Deputy

First Minister was on the guest list. Can you understand that?

I can understand the concerns felt by victims who have suffered at

I can understand the concerns felt hands of terrorists but I believe

that the Deputy First Minister's presence at Windsor was another

example of reconciliation. There have been many difficult decisions

to deliver the political settlement but it has provided tremendous

benefits to Northern Ireland even though many of the decisions have

been difficult. But reconciliation is crucial in terms of maintaining

political stability and underpinning the success of the peace process.

Were you surprised by the comments of Lord Tebbit, a member of the

Conservative Party and Tory grandees. He is quoted as saying

there is always the possibility that a member of the Real IRA will be

there is always the possibility that outraged that her meeting the Queen

that he will be shot in the back and we can but hope. Sinn Fein has said

the comments are outrageous, do you agree?

I'm afraid I do. I recognise that Lord Tebbit has suffered very

grievously at the hands of terrorists but nothing can justify

calling on someone to be murdered. Should he be sanctioned?

Lord Tebbit as an individual who speaks his mind. It is not for me to

see what sanctions should or should not be applied but I want to make

clear that I think those comments were unacceptable. It is still a

matter of great sadness and regret that the rates are maids against

elected representatives in Northern Ireland saw it as highly dangerous

for Lord Tebbit is to make those comments.

What would you say are the implications of this visit for

political relations on these islands? It seems the relationship

between Dublin and London is excellent and Dublin and Belfast is

very good but the working relationship between the parties in

Northern Ireland leaves a lot to be desired in the eyes of many people

on a series of important issues. Should the two governments not be

offering to step in and break the deadlock on thing is like flags,

parades and the past? The two governments work closely

together on these issues and we will continue to engage closely with all

the Northern Ireland political parties on flags, parades and past

the Northern Ireland political but also on matters like national

reform and the National Crime Agency.

Peter Robinson said if parties here are not competent to make decisions

on things like welfare reform, perhaps that authorities should be

given back to you to make those decisions and Westminster. Surely

the same thing applies to things like flags, parades and the past. If

they are not competent to meet decisions about such big issues, you

are to do more than just encourage them, maybe you are to make the

decisions for them. We can't just rewrites the

devolution settlement. We respect the devolution settlement and would

only seek to amend out if there was broad cross-party and cross communal

support. I do not see that support for adaptations or changes to the

devolution settlement. For an agreement to stick on flags, parades

and the past, it needs to come from Northern Irish political leadership.

They have fixed more difficult problems in the past, I think they

are capable of fixing this problem. They have expressed to me their

commitments to doing this. There has been another significant

development. How do you respond to the claim that well Sinn Fein were

negotiating the Belfast Agreement, a senior

guns from Florida? These are matters that need to be

investigated. I haven't got comments on that at the moment but it is very

important that we continue to investigate claims that have been

made. The claim has also been made that

the British and American governments sought to play down the issue before

it came to court in Florida. Does that surprise you?

Matters relating to the previous government are for them to answer

to. It is not for this government to take responsibility for the actions

of the previous government. No, but you have been critical of

the previous administration. Unionists have said the

the previous administration. government hasty to accept

Republicans at their words no matter what. Do you share those concerns?

There are concerns about the way the previous government operated and

where appropriate they need to be investigated but it is really for

the people involved at the time to justify their actions.

But do you accept that there are serious questions that need to be

answered? Yes, I do.

What is your prognosis as we move forward to the elections? People

feel there will be no serious business done in the run-up to the

elections in May. Do you think that is probably right?

I certainly hope it is not right. The conversations I have been having

I certainly hope it is not right. recently makes me believe that they

are going to carry on working. The First Minister in particular was

clear that he thought the meeting is on flags, parades and past should

continue over the election period. And it is important to continue to

try and make progress on things like the National Crime Agency. I was

discussing this with the SDLP recently. The reality is the current

situation means that people in Northern Ireland don't have the same

protection from organised crime that people in Great Britain do. That's

it problem and we need to keep a focus on these issues even during

Thanks very much for joining us. Thank you.

As this week's Irish Presidential visit draws to an end, the big

headline remains the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness'

attendance at the state banquet in Windsor Castle and his participation

in the loyal toast to the Queen. He said being there was the right thing

to do but why? Was it an unapologetic act of bridge-building

or a more calculated political move? Stephen Walker has had his ear to

the ground. This was about marking new times. It

changed relationship after years of conflict. But, reading the papers,

you could be forgiven for thinking this was all about Martin

McGuinness. Once seen as an enemy of the state, now a guest of the state.

During his time as an MP, he often came here but he never sat on the

green benches of the House of Commons or uttered the author of

allegiance. However this week he was at the heart of the British

establishment. Although he has met the Queen before, the the former IRA

commander dining at Windsor Castle was always going to create

headlines. So what are we got to meet all this week? Is it simply

another lying in the unfolding story of the peace process will it have

wider repercussions? In Sinn Fein's eyes, England 2014 is a different

place to Ireland in 2011. Back then, they snubbed the head of state but

now they are rubbing shoulders with them.

They think things through, they are serious politicians and it

They think things through, they are have given this a lot of thought.

They know they made a terrible error when the Queen came to Northern

Ireland because they shunned the visit and they have learned a lot

from that. They have learned that you don't diss the Queen.

How Sinn Fein learned lessons from the past?

In 2011, the majority of people in the Republic thought they were on

the wrong side. He called it wrong. It had no opportunity to call it

wrong in 2014 if they were to have a political future in the Republic,

not that everything would be taken through the prism of Sinn Fein's

attitude to royalty. But the public, to misquote David Cameron's

words in Europe, they do not want to see Sinn Fein for banging on about

Northern Ireland. Was the decision to come to Windsor

Castle motivated by opinion in the Republic?

He has made a journey, unlike other Sinn Fein figures and figures on the

other side. But also he would be looking at the electoral Paul's and

the public views. He would want to get onside with public opinion on

that. Martin McGuinness says his decision

to attend the banquet has nothing to do with electoral politics.

Absolutely not. It is an attempt to articulate to people how serious we

in Sinn Fein take resolution and reconciliation.

Reconciliation is the next big stage of the peace process which requires

to be embraced by all of us. In recent years, history has taught

us that events once seen any vaginal -- once seen unimaginable are now

possible. So what is next? Remember what they would not do at the

beginning is my they have a way of doing what suits and having the just

a -- justification for it. Martin McGuinness serves the Queen, he is a

paid official of the British Government, essentially. He toasts

the Queen in white tie and tails, what stops him going into

Westminster? Sinn Fein MPs were in the Palace of Westminster listening

to President Higgins. The parties said they had no plans to take their

seats. I was a strong advocate of taking seats in Leicester house and

storm aunt. I am not an advocate of taking seats in Westminster. Because

that is not the next big step. The next big step in our process is to

get people to recognise that this is not just a peace process. This is a

change process, also. Tomorrow the first state visit by an Irish

president to the UK comes to an end. Rich in symbolism, loaded

president to the UK comes to an end. history, it brings to a close five

days that word decades in the making.

Stephen Walker reporting from London.

After allegations of inadequate care in the Belfast and Northern Health

Trusts and claims of unacceptable pressures on front line A staff,

what can be done to resuscitate our health service? We'll hear from the

Health Minister, Edwin Poots, in a moment. First, here's a reminder of

some of the pressing issues. In October the BBC reveals the

College of emergency medicine report that described the EDS is being

non-sustainable and there were breached waiting time targets, too

few senior staff and a major incident was called in January. Then

use that waiting times have possibly contributed in the deaths of five

patients. I have no doubt that contributed in the deaths of five

revelations have dented the reputation of the health service and

cause distress the patients and relatives who have been affected.

There are hundreds of people here who have not been attended to. I saw

elderly people left on trolleys for 78 hours. I wish our politicians and

media would be more mature or in how they assess things. Three hours

after an emergency plan was initiated, things were back to

normal. The health Minister Edwin Poots has ordered a review of

services at the Royal Victoria Hospital. I support Edwin and

recognise the difficult task. We are trying to turn the crisis around by

ensuring people are listing. The delegates acknowledged this was

progress but some of them said there had been another talking and there

is now time action. Health Minister Edwin Poots joins me

from the Westminster studio after attending the musical extravaganza

at the Royal Albert Hall. We will speak about the presidential visit

later, but I want to start with the challenges you face in health. A

survey of staff at the Royal quotes a member of staff saying she felt

like running away because of intense pressure. Have you felt like that? I

have no intention of running away. The pressure is intense. We have a

job to do. It is a matter for us to get on with the job and deal with

blooms that come our way. And ensure we do our best to deliver good

quality health care. Are you on top of that brief? We have made massive

strides in terms of health care in the past three years. In that

period, I have had to make savings of ?419 million. At the same time we

have improved cancer care and the outcomes of cardiac arrest and the

outcomes the strokes, introduced new drugs, shorten the time scale for

waiting for biological drugs for people with arthritis. We are

building a children's hospital and got is that through the executive.

And a new MRI scanner. These are hugely positive things, a

demonstration of moving forward. The health service problems are often

because we are victims of our own success with people living longer.

People have complex conditions and many will turn up at hospital

requiring a lot of staff time and we have to find the best way of dealing

with that. That is not a Northern Ireland problem alone, it is felt

across the UK and Europe. You say you have made significant strides"

examples. But it seems like, on a daily basis, we wake up and turn on

the radio and hear about the latest crisis to hit the health service.

This week you drafted in the expertise of Sir Liam Donaldson to

help you out and help you to to get an overview of what needs to be

done. One way of reading that is being as are out of control and you

need the big hitter to bail you out. Another way of reading it is a

demonstration of how serious we are of delivering high quality health

care. The fact the media reports on this is because we are open and

transparent about it. Many things have happened over the course of

health care that have not been reported. All of the material

produced about Northern trust for example over the course of the past

few weeks has been because we identified there had been failings

and we told the public the failings happened. It gives

and we told the public the failings for the media to scrutinise that,

which is fair enough. Because we are open and transparent, there is the

opportunity for people to look at these things. The spotlight is

almost always cast on negative aspects, as opposed to the positive

things happening. I am sure that is welcomed by members of the public

and media, the openness. I want to stay with Professor Sir Liam

Donaldson. A way of reading that is to suggest you need him because this

will give the operational overview for you, because you do not have

confidence in your own senior officials, is that right? It is

not. We have three pillars. First of all we having gauged the regulator,

-- engaged. They will bring in key all we having gauged the regulator,

specialists. They will look at how things are performing within the

emergency departments and across hospitals and give advice as to how

they see they can be improved. We are engaging this draft through the

College of urgency medicine, which will meet in 60 days to see what

progress has been made and to ensure the progress will be made. We

brought in Sir Liam Donaldson who has specific expertise, recognised

worldwide. Those three pillars should give us the strength to move

forward and continue to improve health care. And to ensure we have

better outcomes next winter, when we hit more peaks. One of the experts

from England who came to the emergency medicine summit was

reported as saying, we have a crisis in emergency medicine. You accept

reported as saying, we have a crisis that? He indicates there is a crisis

across the United Kingdom and indicates that in some of the trust

areas. They are only able to .16% of the required trainee doctors, less

than we have in Northern Ireland. I recognise we have a in getting the

appropriate number of doctors which has led to circumstances where we

have had to reduce hours as a consequence of not having clinicians

available. There are major issues. There have been doctors lost to

Australia. I have been in correspondence with two reason may

about these issues and the ability to bring in doctors from other

countries -- Theresa May. To ensure we can engage as many as possible

and not to allow European Union we can engage as many as possible

rules to block that. I do not think any rules should stump the safety of

people who are living in the United Kingdom. Forgive me for saying, it

sounds like you have changed your tune. You talk about the importance

of transparency. You have talked about reviews and the three pillars

approach you have introduced. Earlier this year, not many weeks

ago, you still argued there was not a major problem at the Royal, what

has changed your mind? You blamed the media for overemphasising that

incident on the floor of the assembly. I do not think I'm ever

said there was no problem in the Royal Victoria Hospital. I knowledge

there were problems and it was hugely difficult. You said it was

there were problems and it was nonevent. On the particular evening

we had many people coming in, technicians, and they resolved the

problem within three hours, which was a good piece of work carried

out. We have ongoing problems in the Royal Victoria Hospital emergency

department. It was planned the new hospital would be open more quickly.

It ran into difficulties, because of the building work. We should be

moving into that facility, which would ease things if that was the

case. We have problems. I would be the first to identify that. It is

clear difficult decisions have to be taken and you have said that on the

record. Are you prepared to make hard choices and to consider things

that people might find unpalatable, things that might be politically

difficult to deliver? I am prepared to make difficult decisions and I

have from the outset. Some decisions I would be prepared to make would

have two receive executive support and consequently they are not

decisions I can take alone. In terms of taking difficult decisions, that

is something all of us, all of the politicians, all five parties, need

to step up to the mark. We need to indicate to people that if we make a

difficult decision, if it is unpalatable at the time, it is for

the greater good and to explain why. It remains to be seen whether the

executive are prepared to make those decisions. Are you prepared to raise

the possibility of reintroducing prescription charges, charging

the possibility of reintroducing people for domiciliary care, because

it is the only part of the UK we do not pay for it, levying a charge for

attending emergency departments? I already have raised with the First

Minister and Deputy First Minister the reintroduction of prescription

charges. The truth is many of us who receive free prescriptions can

afford them. At the same time there are many people who require drugs

and specialist drugs and we can not afford to buy them. I would like it

that we follow a socialist line and those who can afford to pay would be

paying for prescriptions and those who really need the benefit of free

prescriptions to buy expensive drugs would receive the benefit and others

seem resistant to that idea. We look would receive the benefit and others

at domiciliary care. We spend almost one quarter of a billion each year

on that. If we were anywhere else in the United Kingdom, we would recoup

40 million because there would be a charge, the same as with nursing

homes but that is not the case in Northern Ireland. People benefit

from free domiciliary care will stop I cannot let you go without asking

you about the Windsor Castle reception. You were there and many

colleagues. Including representatives of Sinn Fein. How

was it? It was fascinating. I deliberately stayed close to the end

of the queue and watched as Sinn Fein MPs and ministers queued up for

the opportunity to meet Her Majesty The Queen. I thought to myself,

the opportunity to meet Her Majesty was the 30 years of the troubles

about? The bloodshed and mayhem and violence, if that is what it has

come to? The truth is, was any anger achieved through 30 years of

violence that would not have been achieved by democracy? I think the

answer to that is that nothing was achieved as a result of the

troubles. Sinn Fein have come a long way in recognising that. You were

glad to see them there and it helps to bring the process forward? It is

the right thing to do. It was the wrong thing to do, to engage in

murder and terrorism. It would be good for them to properly

acknowledge that. Thank you very much indeed. Let us talk about that

presidential visit. I thought that I did not agree with

this theory that they are going to send a message to the Southern

Electric. It is just not plausible to me. It couldn't have possibly

done him any damage if he hadn't have attended.

So he is playing to the northern Galilee?

Yes, no one would remember if he had been to a banquet. The only

plausible reason for him to do this is to send a message to the Unionist

community. Playing to northern Unionists?

Possibly. This was a form of elastic band leadership were you strive to

stretch your own constituents a little bit, creating some tension

that there will be debate internally but not stretching it to finality

dislocate yourself from your own constituency. They were out of step

with the Queens visit to Ireland in 2011 and they wanted to change that.

Were you surprised that the London papers in particular seemed to be

infatuated with Martin McGuinness' visit. You would've thought it was a

state visit visit. You would've thought it was a

rather than President Higgins. What struck me was how backward it

seemed from a peace process basis. It seems they are still stuck in a

1980s mindset that we have moved on from. The kind of thing where you

routinely heard about shifting terrorists. -- shooting terrorists.

I do think more than anything that this visit and Martin McGuinness'

but as a patient in this this visit and Martin McGuinness'

to be taken at face value. It is another step in the peace process.

The symbolism of handshakes has been recorded since 1984. That engagement

between Gerry Adams and Ken Maginnis in America of all places was the

first part of a very long choreographed process in which

handshakes and meetings and all of these firsts have been critically

important to raise confidence and that sense of moving on for people.

or manifesto for the health system. or manifesto for the health system.

Pity the man to fix it? The buck stops with him but I do

think he needs more understanding. He is managing a programme that is

15 years in the making. It is clinically and economically the

right thing to do to concentrate services on large hospitals. He has

been prepared to put constituency interests aside. I think he is

dealing with management problems that that that level of minister

shouldn't have to deal with. A good performance by him?

I think so. We need to look into social care however.

That's it from The View for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics at

the later time of 3:05pm on BBC One.