Browse content similar to 08/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight: Another proposal on dealing with victims, but is anyone | :00:00. | :00:26. | |
listening? We hear from a frustrated victims' commissioner, a former | :00:27. | :00:28. | |
victims' advocate and the DUP which wants to redefine the V word. Also | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
is momentum building for joint intervention to push things forward? | :00:34. | :00:43. | |
We will hear from London and Dublin. There has been no progress | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
historically in the peace progress at very difficult stages without the | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
active engagement of two governorates. The British Government | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
have been semidetached from the process. We have the latest in our | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
Euro election debates as the Ulster Unionists take on the SDLP. Plus | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
with the Giro d'Italia taking over many of Belfast's streets, the | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
professors are back in the saddle in Commentators' Corner. And you can, | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
of course, join the debate on Twitter. It has been a week in which | :01:09. | :01:16. | |
the past has once again dominated the present. First the arrest of | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
Gerry Adams made world headlines and then it emerged that letters sent to | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
the so-called "on the runs" collectively covered enquiries into | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
almost 300 murders. Shortly we will be discussing why, despite report | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
after report on the past, progress seems impossible to achieve. But | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
first, earlier today the Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
suggested that the Prime Minister is giving the DUP special treatment. I | :01:38. | :01:49. | |
am very critical of the British Government's standard office nurse | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
in relation to this process and their absolute, dismal failure to | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
support the Richard Haass proposals. I have learned over the course of | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
the last week or so that David Cameron, who has never met with Sinn | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
Fein as a political party, even though there have been repeated | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
quests for Gerry Adams and I to meet him as we did with Tony Blair, has | :02:14. | :02:21. | |
been on a number of occasions involved in meetings with the DUP. I | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
doubt if that facility has been accorded to any other party in the | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
Assembly. That clearly amounts to a cosying up by the Conservative Party | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
in advance of next year's general election where they may be prepared | :02:37. | :02:44. | |
to offer some deal to the DUP in return for support in the aftermath | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
of the election. The victims' Commissioner, Kathryn Stone, is | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
leaving her job, but she said people have to have a pension for people | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
severely injured in the Troubles. Do you think that was a helpful | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
suggestion? Sinn Fein has always been supported for the need for a | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
pension for those who were badly injured. We support that and it is a | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
very important thing to support that, given they suggest the idea | :03:17. | :03:25. | |
comes from the victims themselves. There will be a debate around who is | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
eligible and who is not. If you have a scenario where no matter who that | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
person is, and that person has been injured as a result of the | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
conflict, that goes beyond them and into their families. Those families | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
deserve support. Martin McGuinness speaking earlier to Mark Devenport. | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
With me now is the outgoing Victims' Commissioner, Kathryn Stone, who | :03:48. | :03:49. | |
published a way forward document today, which is she says needs | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
urgent attention by the Executive. It is not new ground, of course. | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
Robin Eames, Denis Bradley and Richard Haass trod this path as well | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
without any of their recommendations being implemented. Denis Bradley is | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
with us and we are also joined by the DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson. Welcome | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
to the programme. Jeffrey Donaldson, has the DUP been getting special | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
access to Downing Street? Are you in bed with the Conservatives as Martin | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
McGuinness alleges? If you look at the record, first of all we are the | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
fourth largest party in parliament and we meet with all of the | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
political parties at Westminster on a regular basis as a Parliamentary | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
party. Last week's meeting with the Prime Minister was on a specific | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
issue relating to Libya and at the request of the victims of | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
issue relating to Libya and at the Libyan regime under Gaddafi | :04:47. | :04:48. | |
issue relating to Libya and at the the IRA with heavy weaponry and many | :04:49. | :04:50. | |
people died and were seriously injured because of that. The | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
Guardian newspaper tomorrow is reporting all eight DUP MPs attended | :04:58. | :04:59. | |
a drinks party at Downing Street reporting all eight DUP MPs attended | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
with their families last Wednesday. Were you there? I do not | :05:06. | :05:13. | |
with their families last Wednesday. Downing Street last Wednesday? Yes, | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
with their families last Wednesday. and that was publicly known. We met | :05:17. | :05:18. | |
the Prime Minister about Libya. Not the Prime Minister about Libya. Not | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
our families were there. A deputy leader and a number of MPs on a | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
delegation met the Prime Minister to discuss Libya. I do not know where | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
this family stuff is coming from. Any other Northern Ireland MPs | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
there? No, this was something that Nigel Dodds asked for in the House | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
of Commons. He asked to meet the Prime Minister on this issue and he | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
agreed and the DUP sent a strong delegation because this is an | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
important issue, it is important to the innocent victims of terrorism. I | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
am now being told it was the Prime Minister's children who were there. | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
Did you see them? I am sure they were present in Downing Street. | :06:11. | :06:12. | |
Did you see them? I am sure they would they be there? They were | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
Did you see them? I am sure they probably in Downing Street because | :06:19. | :06:18. | |
Did you see them? I am sure they they happen to live there and that | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
is where the Prime Minister is resident. Somebody is putting two | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
and two together and getting five. Before we move on, briefly, Martin | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
McGuinness has accused your party leader of being a coward, | :06:36. | :06:36. | |
deliberately ignoring attacks on leader of being a coward, | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
Polish people in east Belfast. Is that true? Let me refute that | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
entirely. The First Minister has spoken out against these racist | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
entirely. The First Minister has attacks, we regard them as hate | :06:51. | :06:51. | |
crimes and those who are attacks, we regard them as hate | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
should be prosecuted. Gavin Robinson, the former Lord Mayor has | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
been very active on the ground in east Belfast. He is not only the | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
former Lord Mayor, he is a special adviser. I have met with legal | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
spokesmen from the Polish community and we are supporting the call for | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
the reinstatement of the Unite against hate campaign because people | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
need to be protected against this hate crime and racism. Whoever is | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
responsible, wherever they come from, they do not speak for us and | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
we condemn these actions. Kathryn Stone, Peter Robinson has seemingly | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
rejected your proposal to give pensions to severely injured people | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
from the Troubles. It looks like you're set up recommendations is not | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
worth the paper it is written on. It is very puzzling and disappointing | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
the First Minister has appeared to make those suggestions. The | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
provision for a pension for those seriously injured in the Troubles | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
appears in the European election manifesto of the DUP. So how those | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
proposals could be rejected is beyond me. We need to think very | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
carefully about what this means. These proposals have come from | :08:17. | :08:22. | |
victims and survivors themselves. We have been working very closely with | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
injured groups. These are people who have been profoundly disabled in | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
some cases and we need to do everything we can to afford them | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
dignity. Are you suggesting the DUP has stolen your pension idea and put | :08:38. | :08:47. | |
it in its manifesto? No, I am not. Borrow it? Perhaps our decisions | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
have informed them to put things in their manifesto. We get again | :08:52. | :09:02. | |
immediately to the victim -- definition of victimhood. I have | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
said consistently in the time of my appointment that the commission for | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
victims and survivors and the Commissioner is here for all victims | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
and we have to implement the definition as it currently stands. I | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
know there are some parties that want to see that definition changed, | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
but at the moment the definition is as it is. We have to be there for | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
all victims of the Troubles. Given the fact the First Minister and the | :09:32. | :09:40. | |
Deputy First Minister was pretty negative, he said they were not | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
fully thought through, do you believe they have got the legs to go | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
anywhere at this stage or will they sit on the shelf as other previous | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
reports? The proposal for the pensions specifically was something | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
we were asked last year by the first and Deputy First Minister to work on | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
and work on some more detailed proposals. We hope to have those | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
specific detailed proposals to them by mid-June. It seems to me it would | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
be extraordinary for the commission are not to speak out at a time when | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
dealing with the past has come to the fore for so many reasons in the | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
past week. This is a group of people who have sacrificed most and | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
suffered most and deserve every attention from our politicians, from | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
our Government and society. Denis Bradley, political outrage over | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
money derailed your initiative and it is still sitting on the shelf, | :10:40. | :10:47. | |
much to your frustration. Then we had the Richard Haass proposals and | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
Kathryn Stone's proposals, but there does not seem a huge amount of | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
momentum around to deal with this issue. There is momentum in the | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
sense it is happening every day of the week. There is not momentum | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
politically. I do not understand where the British Government are. | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
Kathryn Stone's report is a very good report and it is the first time | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
that victims from across the divide have spoken. That has not been | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
achieved before. I thought the remarks today were disgusting and | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
disgraceful. He patronised and insulted you. And that is not good | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
enough for a First Minister to do that type of thing. Secondly, this | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
is all about the definition of victims. Jeffrey try to bring this | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
to Parliament six years ago. This definition was not made up by me or | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
Katherine or the Northern Ireland Assembly. It was made up by the | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
British Government. You are not going anywhere with this. The people | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
suffering either 300 or 400 people in need of a pension. People went | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
around the world with Geoffrey Robinson -- Peter Robinson and took | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
a salary at the end of the week. These people do not get a pension. | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
You are not allowing the victims or the Commissioner or this society to | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
make that compromise that allows 400 people, most of whom are from your | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
own community. What needs to be done? We need to implement those | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
proposals. No matter how difficult they are? Of course, that is what | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
politics is about. Peter Robinson says he will not put his hand to | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
anything that involves people who perpetuated things in Northern | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
Ireland. There are people who support that position. The | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
definition we all work to is actually defined by the British | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
Government and by nobody else and it is not going to change no matter | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
what Geoffrey is saying. It is not going to happen. Actually you have | :13:06. | :13:13. | |
to live with that reality. And I say this. | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
to live with that reality. And I say compromises and they take their | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
salaries. Those 400 people if you met them and lived with them for a | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
week, I do not think this would be happening. It is time you stopped it | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
and it is time your party stopped it and anyone else who stands in the | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
way of it. The last two people who proposed it were from America, how | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
many more people do you have to actually bring this to you on a | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
plate and say, this cannot go on. First of all I do not want to | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
patronise Katherine, I want to thank sincerely for the work she has done | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
as Victims' Commissioner. I have spoken to many victims from across | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
the community over the last two years who have been very impressed | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
by what Katherine has done. The charge is that your party leader, | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
his remarks were disgusting, disgraceful and insulting. I have | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
read the statement Peter made and I do not accept that description. He | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
is reflecting a concern that is held in the community. When Dennis and | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
Lord Eyam is brought forward their report it was not just politicians | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
of a payment being made to people, of a payment being made to people, | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
well, to the families of the dead wood included people on both sides | :14:43. | :14:44. | |
They are two who had committed horrendous crimes. | :14:45. | :14:56. | |
respect. The political compromise was that people had to stop killing. | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
They had to put away their arms and they had to accept the rule of law. | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
In respect of victims, and you know, I engage with victims from all sides | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
of the community. I have heard the views and there are different views. | :15:11. | :15:12. | |
There are people who would views and there are different views. | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
view, that as Catherine has articulated... And the British | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
Government. And some elements... That is in statute! | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
It is not... You have been trying to change it for six years. Is it in | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
It is not... You have been trying to any manifesto? In any British party? | :15:36. | :15:42. | |
You are fooling these victims. I do support the concept of a pension. | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
Let me say that clearly. Only for certain people.. As Catherine said, | :15:50. | :15:59. | |
the First Minister and Deputy First Minister asked her to undertake work | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
on this project. We have been pursuing this for some time. She has | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
also made the point that the law at the moment does actually prohibit | :16:10. | :16:17. | |
people who have a criminal conviction, including compensation. | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
I think we need to look at f there is going to be compensation and a | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
pension for those who have serious injury, that we should ensure those | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
who are responsible for those crimes do not benefit. In a sentence, what | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
do you say to the injured UDR man who is being denied a payout and a | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
pension now, because you will not allow that suggestion to go forward | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
in case former IRA men are entitled to the same thing. That is what is | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
happening. That is exactly what is happening. He would be saying to me, | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
please don't equate me with a member of the IRA. | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
Widows of RUC people came to us and said, we could be doing with a | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
pension, we were treated horrendously. With respect, I have | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
met many of the widows and many of the UDR soldiers. They are clear | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
they do not want their loved ones... The state of this community and you | :17:12. | :17:17. | |
need to realise that people want you to move forward. We need to leave it | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
there. There are people who do not want their loved ones equated with | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
terrorists. That is the reality. We have to leave it there. No meeting | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
of minds, as perhaps we expected. Thank you very much for joining us. | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
Martin McGuinness's concerns over British Government motives come as | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
some poll tig tigss in the repub -- politicians in the republic call on | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
politicians to get engaged with the political process here. Our | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
correspondent has been investigating. | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
It is hard to know where the border ends and begins. The British Army | :17:54. | :18:03. | |
watch towers that once dominated and of littered the landscape are gone. | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
So too the checkpoints, replaced by a mother way. | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
-- motorway. The events have caused many to wonder whether the political | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
process is as straight and as solid as the M1. With the process | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
apparently more fragile than some believed, questions are now being | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
asked about the role of the two Governments, the co-guarantors of | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
the 1998 Good Friday agreement. There's no indication of a return to | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
violence. There's no indication really of political progress. There | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
hasn't been really for some months now. We have a thing where the | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
politics is not working. It will not fail. It will not take us back to | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
the bad old days of the troubles. There's no momentum there. What | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
you've had is things looic the Adams's arrest has increased | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
tensions. It was not just to be about the absence of violence, | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
welcome though that is. London and Dublin appeared, at least | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
until recently, to be of the view that the era of their hand holding | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
of political parties was over. A former Fianna Fail Cabinet member is | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
critical of both Governments and has suggestions about where more could | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
have been done. You take the area of moving on, the all-Ireland body, | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
where there should be more come competencies involved in the area of | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
north/south bodies. Take a relatively small project, but a | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
project which would be a profound significance was the construction of | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
the narrow water bridge. That has support from north and south. It had | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
support from all political interests. That has gone by the way | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
side for the sake of a very small expenditure in the context of | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
Government. At a time when many talk of a golden age in Anglo-Irish | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
relation, the situation on the ground in Northern Ireland, so long | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
a divisive issue between Dublin and London is far from guilded. There | :20:08. | :20:14. | |
appears to be Irish frustration with British decisions, believing more | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
support should have been given to the proposals on the past, parades | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
and flags. Then there was last week's decision not to investigate | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
the 1971 killings by British soldiers and the IRA's bombing seven | :20:28. | :20:34. | |
years later. The British and Irish Governments are guarantors to the | :20:35. | :20:36. | |
Good Friday agreement. The Irish Government has stepped up to the | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
role in terms of its function. My own personal view is the British | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
Government have been semi detached from the process. I believe they | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
could have done more. The Secretary of State was unavailable for | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
interview. In a statement, she said she stands ready to take a more | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
proactive role if that is the clear desire of all the parties T Labour | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
opposition believes it is ultimately up to local politicians to reach | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
agreement. Experience shows that only happens when London and Dublin | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
are involved. They should not be in the driving seat. Northern Ireland | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
has devolved power. It is very, very important that political leaders | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
step up to the plate and show leadership. There's been no progress | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
historically in the peace process at very difficult stages, without the | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
active engagement of the two Governments working together as one. | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
I think that is absolutely crucial. With Richard Hass due in Government | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
later this month, the two Governments may have to take a | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
deeper interest in Northern Ireland. London and Dublin may not want to be | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
in the driving seat, believing that is the role of parties. Many believe | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
it is up to them to keep the foot on the gas and inevitably that might | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
mean more time on the road for both. Now, we are two weeks away from | :21:53. | :22:06. | |
polling day in the local Government and European elections. Tonight, | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
we'll hear from our second pair of leading candidates. With me is Jim | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
Nicholson, who has been an MEP since 1989 and the SDLP's Alex Attwood. | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
Jim Nicholson, your party leader says you are an exceptionally | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
influential member of the European Parliament. Are you really? I hope | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
so. I have worked hard in getting there over all this time. The time I | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
have been there I have certainly always described myself as a | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
Euro-realist and one who works hard for Northern Ireland and to achieve | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
for Northern Ireland. That is what I have done during that time. | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
You know, if you look back, I have served as a delegation chairman and | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
the prestigious top chair of the delegation with the United States. I | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
have also been a member of the Parliament. I have been involved in | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
many other aspects of the Parliament. Some people do not think | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
we don't see too much of you from one election to the next? You know, | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
Mark, maybe that is the responsibility of the media in | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
Northern Ireland who don't want to seem to actually interview people | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
who work in Europe. One of the difficulties we have is the jobs in | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
Brussels or Strasbourg and that is where we have to do our work. And it | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
is not easy to be available here as you will rightly know. So, | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
is not easy to be available here as see us, but | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
is not easy to be available here as communicate with the | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
is not easy to be available here as That is what we've tried to do. If | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
you talk to a lot of people, in Northern Ireland, one party in the | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
United Kingdom, where people know where who their -- know who their | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
MEP is. You have talked about where who their -- know who their | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
claiming back the seat in Europe, as you put it. It is virtually | :23:57. | :23:58. | |
claiming back the seat in Europe, as impossible for you to do that, isn't | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
it? That is not what the Belfast Telegraph said last week, when it | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
said I was knocking on the door of winning the third seat in the | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
European elections. That is not good though - you have to go through the | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
door. It will only take 12 votes for the SDLP in every ballot-box in | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
Northern Ireland for the SDLP to win the seat. The poll in the Telegraph | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
said 1,000 votes. So we are gaining. We are going to catch up and we're | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
going to win. This is much more important than the importance of the | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
European election. As we have seen, over the last number of weeks in | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
particular, even tonight, people are fed up with the stagnation and they | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
are fed one the stalemates. There is a gathering now across Northern | :24:46. | :24:47. | |
Ireland of people who are saying that we are going to move away from | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
that. We are going to move towards a positive, bold, daring, strong | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
politics, led by somebody, like myself and others who demonstrate in | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
Government that we are bold, decisive, that we got things done. | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
That is what is needed in our politics now. Given what we have | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
seen tonight and over recent weeks in particular. If there is a | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
referendum on the UK's membership on the EU in the future, where does | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
that leave you? We will see if there is a referendum. There will be in | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
2017. That is what the Prime Minister says. If David Cameron is | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
re-elected as Prime Minister, let's see there is a referendum. If there | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
is one in 2016, 2018, we will say to people, vote to stay in Europe. Why? | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
Because if we were to withdraw, it will be our small businesses, our | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
exports, it will be our farmers and citizens and community who will lose | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
out more than any other parts of these islands. One of the reasons | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
why people are gathering to vote positive and for change in this | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
election is because they want to send out the message that Northern | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
Ireland has to be part of the European Union. As we reform it, we | :26:01. | :26:08. | |
do not withdraw from it. Renew, referendum. It means we have a | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
review of where the United Kingdom stand within the European Union. | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
And then, re renegotiation between the UK and the rest of Europe and a | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
referendum. Why do you need a referendum if you renegotiate | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
properly? In the United Kingdom we've had the situation of being are | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
we in or are we out? We have to make up our... We're in. If you listen to | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
a lot of the media in the UK, they are saying that a lot of people on | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
the mainland United Kingdom would actually vote to go out. Let's | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
collar fi the situation. Oi - clarify the situation. I would like | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
to see them being leaders in Europe. That is the challenge we face here | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
in Northern Ireland. If we left, you are interested in the farming | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
community and of many people say you draw a lot of support from people in | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
the farming community. If we left the EU, where would the money come | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
from to replace the single farm supply meant. ? -- supplement? It is | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
a lot of money. I am saying I do not want the United Kingdom to jump off | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
a cliff as far as leaving the European Union is concerned. Who | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
else is going to... Let's have an assessment as to where we are, and | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
what would happen if we left the European Union. What would our | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
position be here? We are part of the UK that is a land front year from | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
the sterling zone, with the eurozone. How would that affect our | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
borders? Let's assess. Let's see where we are and then let's see what | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
the cost would be to our farmer, our business, our people who are looking | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
for employment and would the major people come in here and bring the | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
jobs if we are outside the European Union? | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
What about the referendum? We would worry about that when we get the | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
assessment. You say you want a referendum. Yes, to collar fi the | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
air. It is risky? It may be. The United Kingdom requires a referendum | :28:15. | :28:22. | |
to clarify the situation within the European... We are to the tune of | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
several billion pounds a year. In fact, it costs us money to be in the | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
EU. Sitting on the fence is not a strategy for dealing any of our | :28:34. | :28:36. | |
difficulties in Northern Ireland. And Jim has outlined this evening | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
that he's sitting on the fence about whether we should be in or out of | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
Europe. What should happen if we were out of Europe to those who | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
export from Northern Ireland, when 55% of exports go into the European | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
Union? What would happen to thousands and thousands of our | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
farmers who get money from Europe, rightly so, in order to live on the | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
land and produce of the good food that we eat and the good food that | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
we can export as part of a growing a gri foods strategy? It is, in my | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
view, folly for our people to suddenly have leadership that says | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
when it comes to Europe, when it comes to the future of our country, | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
when it comes to the character of Government you sit on the fence. | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
That is not a bold, proper approach and I think it's very worrying for | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
people to hear that this evening. I don't think it is worrying at all. I | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
think what we have to review is the money we put into Europe - the | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
sizable amount and how much we get out. Are we getting value for money | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
for that money we're putting in? Let's cut out waste in Europe - like | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
the travelling circus to Strasbourg. Let's take care of all of that. | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
I want to ask you about your realistic prospects before we close | :29:55. | :29:56. | |
this discussion. Some comment taters say your seat -- | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
commentators say your seat could be vulnerable if there is a Sinn Fein | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
surge with transfers to the SDLP - that has to be a serious worry to | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
you? The Unionist vote has been shredding | :30:09. | :30:29. | |
and shredding. I have been in politics for a long time. Would they | :30:30. | :30:38. | |
transferred to you? I am asking people to vote Jim Nicholson number | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
one and then vote to other candidate of your choice. A leading member of | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
Sinn Fein said to me that there was not a seat for you because they said | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
if they thought there was a second seat, they would be running two | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
candidates. Peter Robinson keeps saying stop the SDLP winning the | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
seat because there are two seat, but on the other hand Sinn Fein do not | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
want the SDLP to win. The character of their politics is threatened by a | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
party that is for strength in Europe, it is against the stagnation | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
of stalemate, that has the right values to bring this society | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
forward. That is why last week an opinion poll in the Telegraph put as | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
1000 votes short of opinion poll in the Telegraph put as | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
European seat. That is how good it is for the SDLP. This time in two | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
weeks people will make their decision and we will talk about it | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
in the aftermath. Let's hear the thoughts of tonight's commentators | :31:40. | :31:42. | |
on what we have been discussing. The professors are with me again, Deidre | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
Heenan and Rick Wilford. Let's talk about victims first of all. What | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
does the publication of the Commissioner's strategy add to the | :31:49. | :31:58. | |
debate? It clouds the debate even more. This is a third, relatively | :31:59. | :32:09. | |
recent report on this issue and it illustrates in the discussion that | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
there is very little in the way of common ground. | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
there is very little in the way of thinking, what they have got in mind | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
is a criminal thinking, what they have got in mind | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
scheme which was revised in March this year and that renders the | :32:26. | :32:34. | |
described criminals as in eligible for compensation. My suspicion is | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
using that as a precedent to put forward their proposals in that any | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
assailant would not be eligible forward their proposals in that any | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
a pension. That is a rough equivalent. Sinn Fein wants to | :32:54. | :33:02. | |
extend it to those who were injured, or who died or who were responsible | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
for political violence. If that is the case, it will be controversial. | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
The whole area is controversial. I agree, they have not clarified | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
anything and we are still in the very fundamental debate about what | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
constitutes a victim and how do we decide what policy is appropriate, | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
what services are appropriate until we decide what we mean when we say | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
victim. Do we have an inclusive definition or an exclusive | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
definition. Those are the debates we have not had. Richard Haass said | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
there was a consensus and there was an issue that would not go away. We | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
need a victim centred policy, not a victim vetoed policy. People think | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
victims are being used as political footballs and people are not | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
concerned with victims, they just want to make political points. Where | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
does this leave the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister? They | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
were showing an comfortable body language. It reminded me of the | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
couple who were estranged, but they decided to stay together because of | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
the children. They sleep in different beds, they work in | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
different rooms, it is an awkward relationship. And when you come for | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
dinner they put on a show. We need to leave it there, time has beaten | :34:31. | :34:39. | |
us. That is it for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics at 11:30am on | :34:40. | :34:41. | |
BBC One. Goodbye. Ulster's last game against Munster | :34:42. | :35:02. | |
in January Now with the Ulstermen's top four | :35:03. | :35:04. | |
place secure, it's a chance to impress | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
before the Pro12 play offs. Ulster playing some | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
enterprising rugby. | :35:14. | :35:17. |