29/05/2014 The View


29/05/2014

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An unholy row around the Executive table after the First Minister's

:00:00.:00:24.

Just how damaged is Northern Ireland's reputation

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We'll hear from the Alliance Party's Stephen Farry, UKIP councillor Henry

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Reilly, the former President of the Methodist Church, Harold Good,

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And disillusioned with political life here - Anna Lo,

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the first Chinese born politician in any European legislature,

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I have made contributions in this community for the last 40 years. We

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all need to think very carefully about how we treat ethnic minority

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And in Commentators' Corner this week, fresh from the election with

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their thoughts on how it all panned out, programme regular Alex Kane

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And you can, of course, join the debate on Twitter -

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An unrepentant First Minister and a tearful Alliance MLA -

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just another day in the politics of Northern Ireland.

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First, Peter Robinson sought to clarify his position on Pastor James

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McConnell's attack on Islam as a satanic religion spawned in hell.

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Tonight the Belfast Islamic Centre say they have received his apology.

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This afternoon Anna Lo said she feels let down by the first Minister

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and disillusioned with politics. She will not be standing for election

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We'll hear more of what Ms Lo had to say shortly, but first here's what

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Peter Robinson said to our Political Editor, Mark Devenport,

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when he was asked to explain his comment that he would trust Muslims

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I took an outrageous suggestion. I noticed that one of the Islamic

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leaders said that many of the Muslim community in Northern Ireland would

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be involved in the health service. Would I be happy to allow them to

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perform surgery? I expressly said, yes I would be happy and would trust

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a person from the Muslim faith to carry out the operation. I knew the

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partner for 20 years. I indicated that he supported his right to make

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the remarks. I am not going to get involved in giving a view on various

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religions in Northern Ireland. I believe that the partner has a

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perfect right to speak his mind. He did it within the confines of his

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own Church, albeit that he has an online congregation as well. Do

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people... Are you concerned that your comments could fuel hatred? I

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am making it very clear that I am supportive of having good relations

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in Northern Ireland with every section of our community. I will do

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anything I can to make sure that that is the case. No one should ever

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consider taking any action against anybody from any ethnic background.

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Your critics have said that you should apologise. Do you feel that

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you all an apology? If I said anything that was the are today of

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course I would apologise. Peter Robinson speaking earlier to

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Mark Devenport - and we now know, of course,

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that Mr Robinson met representatives I have seen a dramatic increase in

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racist attacks. We are talking about two or three incidents per day. We

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have had a strategy in place for the last seven years that has still not

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been published. We must do something. We must address this

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issue. Local communities are telling me they have no resources to do

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this. Then when partner McConnell makes outrageous comments about the

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Muslim community we have politician after politician from DUP coming out

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in support of him. Now we have the first Minister of our country saying

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he supports him. I feel vulnerable. I feel vulnerable walking down the

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street. I know that ethnic minorities have been attacked. I

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feel vulnerable but when I walk in the street that I might be attacked.

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I was quite shaken in an incident recently when I walked out of our

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shopping centre. Someone called behind me. By the tone I knew they

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were not friendly. I walked on to my car. Then a car sped past me and I

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was glad there was a barrier between me and the car. A back seat

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passenger had the window wound down. Half of her was hanging out of

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the window. She was screaming racist comments at me with such venom and

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hatred. I asked myself what have I done to her? I have made

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contributions to this community for the last 40 years. I think we all

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need to think very carefully about how we treat ethnic minority

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communities. Many of them do feel like me. Their homes have been

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attacked. Are we going to drive out all our ethnic minorities who have

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made such contributions in Northern Ireland? How dare we entice people

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to Northern Ireland when we have such a place. I know it is a small

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minority, I know the majority of people are wonderful, but this small

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minority make ethnic minority people feel frightened and vulnerable. And

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that is how I feel. My two sons are in England. When they heard about

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the threats that I have received they have asked me would I want to

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leave. I have said I would not. I have active years year. I have

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friends and I want to stay. But who is to know?

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I am joined now by my guests. Welcome to the programme. I hope she

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stays in politics. She has now chosen to make that public. She has

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an important role to play particularly around racial equality

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and inclusion. We have two address the issue of racism in society. It

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is a problem as big as sectarianism. We have a policy that has been stuck

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for the last seven years. We have two properly resource at and make a

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commitment to building good race relations. The first Minister has

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two go beyond what he has said so far. Progress is being made, but it

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is still a qualified apology. He is saying, if he has caused offence,

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rather than saying that he has caused offence. Tonight the Belfast

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Islamic Centre say they have accepted a sincere apology in

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private. I have two deferred to our Muslim friends in terms of how they

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respond, but more has to be done to build ridges. We also have to be

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conscious of our international reputation. Several of my colleagues

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have been told that there were furious exchanges this afternoon.

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How bad was it? I do not want to go into details behind closed doors.

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There were frank exchanges. There is a broader issue. The executive as

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currently constituted is not working. Relationships at the top

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are strained. Ministers are making progress, but this is being

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overshadowed by bickering. There are opportunities out there that we are

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missing, that we have to capture. We arguing well on jobs at the moment.

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We have to do more to prove that the executive can deliver for people in

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Northern Ireland. I spoke to someone at that meeting who said relations

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are going down the tube fast. Do you agree? It is hard to disagree and

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what you are saying publicly defined those relations. We have been

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through difficult times in Northern Ireland. It is important people step

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back from the brink. We cannot have constant crises like over the last

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18 months that are now dominating what is happening with politics in

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Northern Ireland. We have to focus on the real work that has been done

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in individual ministries, my colleagues are doing that, and we

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deserved the mandate the people of Northern Ireland have entrusted us

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with. Henry Reilly, what is your reaction to Anna Lo's e-mail shall

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interview? It is very distressing and everyone would have some for

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Anna. Anna has said some silly things recently. She referred to

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people like me as colonials. If you have lived in Northern Ireland for

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generations you are not a colonial. I talked to a large number of people

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from ethnic minority communities over the last couple of days since

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Pascal McConnell's address and they do not feel under any additional

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threat because of it. I am at a loss as to why not so desperately... Did

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you just hear her talk about the abuse she had endured recently? She

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talked about feeling frightened, unwelcome and vulnerable. I do not

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know why. One point made to meet today in south Armagh was that Anna

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has lived here for 40 years into worst of the Troubles and people

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were being killed in South Armagh because of what the IRA saw as their

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British ethnicity and Anna called them colonials. She has to

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understand everyone has feelings and emotions, not just Anna, and UKIP

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would totally condemn any racism and any adverse comments against any

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individual based on the race, but their people make very rash and

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offensive comments towards their fellow citizens in Northern Ireland,

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they are in biting this. So she invited this invective, is that what

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you are seriously telling us? Do you regard yourself as a colonial in

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Northern Ireland? That caught so much at parents with ordinary people

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who lived here for generations. We are not colonials. That was part of

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a wide-ranging interview in the Irish News, one comment, and given

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she comes from Hong Kong and was perhaps drawing a parallel which

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made sense for her, you seem to be suggesting that was a green light

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for people to abuse in the way they have. There can be no green light to

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racially abused anyone but all I am saying is that in a situation

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whereby people who have lived here for hundreds of years, suffered at

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the hands of the IRA because of their ethnicity, to be called

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colonials by the Alliance Party was hurtful. The other thing I

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detect... So she should apologise for that? The Alliance Party should

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apologise for calling people who have lived here for hundreds of

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years colonials. That is giving a reason to militant Irish republicans

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to kill Protestants on the border. I am not sure who has been living here

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for hundreds of years unless we have a lot of centenary is around. Anna

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has lived in Northern Ireland for longer than half of the population.

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She is as much Northern Irish as anyone else. In the article she does

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not say the word colonials. Henry's party have been demonising Romanians

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and McGarry and is and on Saturday there is another rally. David

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McNarry said the Alliance Party, the entirety of the Alliance Party and

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their voters did not belong in Northern Ireland. That is a quad eye

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fascist comment that he should be ashamed of. The attitude of UKIP and

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fellow travellers in Northern -- in politics across the UK is setting an

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environment that is creating hostility to people based on their

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race. Can I move on. Harold Good, language clearly matters. Clearly,

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and I and others will welcome Peter Robinson's statement today. Some

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people think it will not be far enough for some, others see it as a

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sign of weakness. It is a sign of strength when someone can reflect on

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what they have said and come back and explain. Do you think it is

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unfortunate that the sincere apology, as it was described, took

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place behind closed doors? I think the community needs an apology.

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There have been so many things said in the last few days by so many

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different people, I would hope that we will all sit back and reflect on

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what has been said and that there will be more than one apology. I

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hope Pastor McConnell will reflect and we will hear from him in a day

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or two. The power of a word, we all need to mind our language,

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especially people in leadership in church or state or any other area of

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influence they need to mind our language. Pastor McConnell knows the

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good book and I would just ask him to take a moment tonight to read the

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pistol of James, chapter three, where he talks about the time being

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like a spark -- the time being like a spark back in light a forest fire.

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One word can light a forest fire and we need to be desperately aware of

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the potential for damage. Look at what happened when the pastor in

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Florida spoke and then followed it by burning the Koran. Look at the

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impact around the world of that particular event. Just from a word

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or a couple of words. We need to be very mindful of what either positive

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or negative destructive or constructive powers of a word, we

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have seen a lot of destructive words this week. Quintin Oliver, Anna Lo

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has pointed out she is not quitting politics because racist thugs have

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driven her red, but she is making no secret of the fact she is

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disillusioned with politics. Could you blame her? No, and you feel for

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her. We see here the politics of religion, race and gender very much

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applying, so we need to go back to some of those processes we have

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reached accommodation in our political progress. Nothing is

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perfect but we have made progress and need to go back and discuss some

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of the issues that were not properly dealt with and that is why it is so

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tragic that the Haass talks ended it is so tragic that the Haass talks

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ended in you have accompanied politicians from here to Islamic

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countries to hold talks and discussions and to act in some kind

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of ambassadorial role for Northern Ireland and to look at issues that

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appear intractable there. How will this situation play out in some of

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these countries? The power of dealing with conflict is made

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greater by those who have been through it themselves. It is their

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authenticity and you see the emotion of Anna Lo on the screen. The

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authenticity of that experience can help others and we should redouble

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our efforts because I have seen politicians, including the DUP ones,

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never put a foot wrong abroad because they are ambassadors, they

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are thinking and working together and that must have a strengthening

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impact for when they come back here and sit around a table so maybe we

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should do more of it. Has there been a failure here to properly to mimic

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it on the part of political leaders met here in Northern Ireland?

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Clearly, it has been disastrous. As the late my and Toulouse said, it is

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not what you said or did, it is how it was felt, and how the last 48

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hours have been felt will take a long time to reverse, and I might

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say to Henry, the damage of what he just said, Anna Lo is hurting

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through racism she experienced daily to say someone she had contributed

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to it that but to qualify, the point is that you feel the need to sake

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she brought it upon herself by what she said all stop so she is at least

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partly to blame? I have said that racism and attacks of that nature

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are disgraceful but Anna has to understand that Mike I did not speak

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over you. Anna has to understand that if you refer to people in your

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community that you have worked on and gain their respect, she turned

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around and referred to them as a colony of colonials. Did that undo

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all the good? It hurt a lot of people. In the way she has been

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hurt? Seriously? That is quite Anna should have known the consequences.

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I also want to ask you about Muslims. The other thing, Mark, is

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your profession of journalism. Stephen Nolan isn't here. The BBC

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and Nolan have generated this issue, caused division within community 's

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and hype up the situation. Stephen was drooling at the prospect of this

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becoming an al-Jazeera. That is not acceptable. Stephen Farry, final

:23:18.:23:26.

word. Blaming the victim. Why in Northern Ireland's do we always have

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to do condemnations followed by a Bath? This is wrong, setting the

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environment of racial attacks is wrong and we need to say so that

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Mike Bath. -- bot. Thank you, for joining us on the programme tonight.

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Now, among the other things Peter Robinson has had to think

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about this week is what the election results mean for the strengths

:23:51.:23:54.

There are just 44 weeks until the next election -

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the general election - but the pundits are still trying to

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figure out what the outcome of the past week says about the prospects

:24:03.:24:05.

Martina Purdy has been investigating.

:24:06.:24:08.

Just a warning that there is some flash photography.

:24:09.:24:10.

Those who are tempted to do another sordid deal, keep looking over your

:24:11.:24:16.

shoulder because they unionist group behind you is growing. By tens of

:24:17.:24:24.

thousands. Mr Robinson, we are on your case! Did you be isn't the

:24:25.:24:31.

dominant voice of unionism but it is a dominant voice to be recognised --

:24:32.:24:38.

did you be. So what is the impact on decision-making at Stormont? Pass

:24:39.:24:43.

back the TUV. In the longer term it will have

:24:44.:25:00.

implications for power-sharing, passing any legislation. We will

:25:01.:25:06.

have further arguments about flags, parades, welfare reform. I would

:25:07.:25:11.

expect Peter Robinson will block any thing at the Executive that will

:25:12.:25:15.

look like a compromise so the entire Haass and gender is on ice. There is

:25:16.:25:20.

a double deadlock at the Executive because the DUP will not want to do

:25:21.:25:23.

anything we the the Stormont elections and simpering would not

:25:24.:25:29.

want to sully its left-wing brand until the next Irish general

:25:30.:25:33.

election but one, five or six years away, so both parties will take an

:25:34.:25:37.

agenda of doing nothing. That could leave Peter Robinson trapped at

:25:38.:25:41.

Stormont and with him Martin McGuinness, the Deputy First

:25:42.:25:47.

Minister. Such paralysis further underlines Stormont's power-sharing.

:25:48.:25:53.

This TUV council candidate did not get elected but working colleagues

:25:54.:25:59.

did. He once followed a young Ian Paisley but now claims the TUV will

:26:00.:26:05.

grow with his enchantments. There will be less support for the DUP, a

:26:06.:26:11.

slight increase in support for the Ulster Unionists, and increased

:26:12.:26:15.

support for the TUV and other independents. Ulster Unionists

:26:16.:26:22.

cheered to a dip of their vote in Europe, buoyed by a bounce in the

:26:23.:26:27.

council poll. This young woman was elected along with a party colleague

:26:28.:26:33.

in East Antrim Council. It was a real shock to opal a sitting DUP and

:26:34.:26:40.

Alliance councillor. The DUP has endured losses to unionist rivals

:26:41.:26:46.

but it is still top of the pile. It seems from the election that the

:26:47.:26:50.

DUP's vote stood firm in the face of people from the left or right or

:26:51.:26:55.

coming at us. We came out as the largest party in local government

:26:56.:27:01.

with significantly more councillors than any other party and we

:27:02.:27:07.

increased our vote in Europe. Peter Robinson left the election count

:27:08.:27:13.

still firmly in the driving seat of unionism but it may take some time

:27:14.:27:16.

for him to figure out which direction he should go next. David

:27:17.:27:21.

Trimble sacrificed himself and his party to do what was right for the

:27:22.:27:26.

country. I don't think Peter Robinson has the courage to do that.

:27:27.:27:29.

Do you think he will move to the right? I think so. Parallels with

:27:30.:27:37.

David Trimble who faced opposition from unionist rivals as he sought

:27:38.:27:40.

compromise are certainly being drawn. The UUP will try to do and

:27:41.:27:47.

Ian Paisley on the DUP and the DUP knows the way to head that off is to

:27:48.:27:53.

shift to the right. With the SDLP looking weaker than ever, Sinn Fein

:27:54.:27:57.

urged from elections north and south stronger than ever. At the minute

:27:58.:28:05.

Unionists are playing right into Sinn Fein's hands. Sinn Fein is

:28:06.:28:11.

poised to make gains in Ireland and critics claim Martin McGuinness

:28:12.:28:13.

cannot act unless it suits the interest of the Dublin -based

:28:14.:28:18.

leadership. They may wish to return to negotiations in Northern Ireland

:28:19.:28:21.

as government ministers. Whatever happens, just cannot ignore Ridout

:28:22.:28:29.

says. Whoever leads Unison will have to work which in pain. That argument

:28:30.:28:35.

drives the DUP forward, fuelled by arguments it is best placed to unify

:28:36.:28:41.

unionism and secure the First Minister's post against Sinn Fein in

:28:42.:28:45.

2016. Pundits do not agree what these polls mean for it to you --

:28:46.:28:51.

TUV fortunes. These votes will split of, and if dynamic is to the right,

:28:52.:28:58.

it will be to the TUV. This suggestion is that Jim Allister's

:28:59.:29:03.

votes will not add up to Assembly votes next time. Last time Jim

:29:04.:29:09.

Allister was triumphant in the European election and told the DUP

:29:10.:29:13.

they were losing seats and he said those seats would tumble down. Only

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one seat tumble down. It is not just the Assembly poll. Next year the DUP

:29:20.:29:25.

has to defend seats at Westminster and it is aiming to win back East

:29:26.:29:30.

Belfast from Alliance. Unionist leaders are always looking over

:29:31.:29:34.

their shoulder because the danger is they could be outmanoeuvred and they

:29:35.:29:37.

can find themselves in a position where someone is being a better unit

:29:38.:29:43.

than them and that can drive votes. Hard to drive board when looking

:29:44.:29:44.

over your shoulder. Let's hear the thoughts

:29:45.:29:51.

of tonight's guest pundits, and it's all change in Commentators'

:29:52.:29:55.

Corner as we welcome Dr Orna Young Within a matter of moments we are

:29:56.:30:17.

back to the issue of us and them. How can we have a shared space

:30:18.:30:32.

document? In that interview Anna Lo talked about there being a colonial

:30:33.:30:39.

dimensional to the situation in Northern Ireland. She did not single

:30:40.:30:43.

out groups of individuals and called them colonial. She did not.

:30:44.:30:53.

Tonight's comments were derogative a of her experience and her views.

:30:54.:31:08.

There is a derogative rate narrative emerging around ethnic minorities

:31:09.:31:12.

more generally. Stephen Farry is clearly very annoyed and he said

:31:13.:31:18.

that. Henry Reilly said he condemns racist attacks and attacks against

:31:19.:31:24.

Anna Lo. He also got 24,000 votes last week. The reality is that there

:31:25.:31:35.

are people from different ethnic backgrounds who have come to

:31:36.:31:37.

Northern Ireland, the vast majority of them to stay and work for a few

:31:38.:31:44.

years and then go back home again. It is almost like a casual racism

:31:45.:31:48.

that has crept into the body politic in Northern Ireland. Peter Robinson

:31:49.:31:55.

is the leader of unionism in Northern Ireland. His primary role

:31:56.:32:01.

is to promote the values of a multicultural society. He makes

:32:02.:32:06.

people feel that they are not quite part of the country and that is

:32:07.:32:12.

dangerous. If we look at it in terms of those that voted for him actually

:32:13.:32:17.

agree with him, that his even more frightening. It is coming out of a

:32:18.:32:26.

period where the racial equality strategy has not been great. There

:32:27.:32:31.

is not a dedicated mosque for people living here. There are a number of

:32:32.:32:39.

factors feeding into this. It is hard to put your finger on what

:32:40.:32:43.

casual racism is. Look at the people that voted for Henry Reilly. You

:32:44.:32:48.

have no idea how many of them voted on the issue of immigration, or

:32:49.:32:53.

where they stand in regard to casual racism. Many of the people that back

:32:54.:33:02.

UKIP want out of the European Union and they use words like foreigners.

:33:03.:33:08.

It is casual language. When you bring that over to Northern Ireland,

:33:09.:33:13.

we already have problems with us and them. How big a problem is this for

:33:14.:33:26.

Peter Robinson? He is in a big pickle with those who are not voting

:33:27.:33:33.

for him. But there is not much problem for him. There is a reason

:33:34.:33:41.

that he is agreeing with partner McConnell. Bear in mind Peter

:33:42.:33:51.

Robinson is not standing for election at any future time in

:33:52.:33:52.

Northern Ireland. There's no Sunday Politics this

:33:53.:33:58.

week, so join me again for Stormont Today on Monday night

:33:59.:34:01.

at 11:20pm on BBC TWO. Until then, from everyone

:34:02.:34:04.

in the team, bye-bye. The common denominator

:34:05.:34:28.

across my programmes is connection, And over a decade

:34:29.:34:34.

with BBC Northern Ireland, the one constant to cross

:34:35.:34:38.

all Stephen Nolan's programmes I'm always flattered when someone

:34:39.:34:41.

opens up to me, cos that means they trust me and that's what's

:34:42.:34:46.

important to me as a broadcaster.

:34:47.:34:50.

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