14/04/2016 The View

Hello, and welcome to a special one-hour edition of The View

from Castledawson, a village that's geographically pretty

much right in the centre of Northern Ireland.

Tonight, five well-known politicians discuss a range of issues

In three weeks' time all the campaigning in the 2016

Assembly election will be over and the polls will be closed.

Tonight we're putting senior figures from the five main parties

here in the spotlight as they field questions from our audience.

One of the key issues in the election is the economy.

Tonight, The View is being hosted by one of our most

successful local companies, Moyola Precision Engineering,

which supplies high-end components to, among other things,

the aerospace industry - and exports its products

So stay with us for the next hour as our guests are quizzed

on their policies on a wide range of issues.

The posters are up on the lamp posts, the leaflets

are jamming the letterboxes and the canvassers

are on the doorsteps - all part of the big push

Tonight we're going to explore some of the key issues of this campaign

With Naomi Long, the deputy leader of the Alliance Party. Also, the

With Naomi Long, the deputy leader deputy leader of the SDLP, Fearghal

McKinney, health Minister and former finance Minister Simon Hamilton of

the DUP, Michelle finance Minister Simon Hamilton of

Fein agriculture minister and one-time regional development

Minister Danny Kennedy, of the Ulster Unionists.

Minister Danny Kennedy, of the from Stephen Kelly, the chief

executive of Manufacturing and nine. Here in Mid Ulster, half of all jobs

depend on manufacturing. What will your party do

to support its growth and create wealth and work

across Norther Ireland? Cuts right to the heart of the key

issues of the campaign. Simon Hamilton? The manufacturing

industries are facing many challenges, as Stephen and his

industries are facing many members will know. The economy,

growing jobs, creating investment, it is something that the Executive

has had a proud record of over the last five years, in spite of those

challenges. We have created 40,000 more jobs, 15,000

challenges. We have created 40,000 targeted. Huge investment in

research and development, again, doubling the target the Executive

had set itself. We don't want to rest on our laurels. We want to

build on that, even though we have come through difficult times, the

worst recession many will remember. We are still ambitious, we want to

see our economy grow. We have set another ambitious target in the

manifesto, 50,000 more jobs from Northern Ireland. The key way we

want to do that is by reducing the rate of corporation tax. The long

battle, fighting to reduce it, many told us we could not do it, some

other party said we should give up on that dream. We have secured that

and can deliver it in the next Assembly. We are ambitious,

sometimes we talk ourselves down on the economy in Northern Ireland. We

have a rich industrial heritage, that we should be proud of, and I

believe we have a bright future. One in three London buses are made here,

40% of the mobile phone screen equipment is made here. At the same

time, the PWC came out and said the rate of growth in Northern Ireland

is significantly behind the rest of the UK. We should not pretend

everything is rosy in the garden? Absolutely not, and we don't, there

are many challenges that remain facing our economy and facing people

in Northern Ireland, although I did see that the economy has grown by

1.5% in the last year. It is not as high as we want to be, but it is

moving in the right direction, particularly after the hard

recession. Arlene Foster, in her roles as enterprise minister and

more recently as First Minister, has taken Northern Ireland into the

global market and attracted global investment. It is not all rosy,

Simon referred to the figures, 40,000 jobs in the last mandate, but

they cannot sit on their laurels, there is more to be done. Mid Ulster

is one example of a very strong engineering hub, an area that does

provide most of Europe with the screen equipment. We do need to

support those industries, going forward. Moving into the mandate

with such a difficult economic climate, the fact we were able to

attract foreign investment of just under 4 billion, it shows that the

Executive can deliver. We have more to do. The best way we can do that

is working with a very strong government and industry partnership,

identifying investment skills, making sure we are training young

people for jobs that are here. One of the key issues is engineering. My

son is on an engineering course, he is getting on-the-job experience and

he is in college. Training people, where there is jobs in the industry,

working with the industry and identifying their needs. We want to

talk about all of Northern Ireland, not specifically about where we are.

Danny Kennedy, you were in the executive, your party took its

place. Then you pulled out. Looking back on the last mandate, do you

think the executive delivered as well as it might have done? I don't,

and I think that Stephen raises an important point. Manufacturing in

Northern Ireland is hugely important. It's important it is

given proper support. Can I say, my party, in launching our manifesto

for the selection today, have called for a manufacturing renaissance for

Northern Ireland. That includes giving support to the companies,

many of them are small, locally based, family run, and whilst it is

important to attract further investment from other places, other

countries, it is equally important to support local businesses here.

One of the things you highlight in your manifesto is the difficulty for

manufacturing industries, as far as energy prices are concerned. The

reality is, that is something that businesses on the ground in this

country have little control over? I think we can do so much better in

terms of reducing our energy costs. I think it is a huge cost for local

industry. I think we need to try harder. Whilst we want to

congratulate the successes that there have been within industry, we

can do so much better. There is insufficient growth, compared with

the other regions of the UK, and even to the Republic of Ireland,

that growth is not there in the way that it should be. Stormont can, and

should, do so much better. We should make Stormont work better and the

only way to do that is to change the personnel at the very top of the

Executive. It is worth noting that the PWC report said that growth

doubled compared to previous years, perhaps that is a trend we can build

on. That is why we have so much more to do. I want to bring in Naomi long

and remind ourselves of the question. What is your party going

to do to support growth and create wealth right across Northern

Ireland? The first thing is to continue to build on what we have

been doing in terms of skills, investment in skills. It has been

mentioned about corporation tax, but we recognise unless you invest some

of that resource in skills, you will not attract the sort of businesses

that you need, nor will you be able to grow indigenous businesses that

we have here. Continuing to invest in schools, and also

apprenticeships, built upon. There are 1300 extra places in Stem

subjects at university, as a result of the work Stephen has done. All

helps manufacturing. If we want to use the corporation tax example, if

we want to see local indigenous businesses grow, connectivity is

important. First, international connectivity, remaining in the EU is

very important in terms of exports and imports. We also need to look at

the infrastructure. If we are going to build businesses, if we are going

to have good manufacturing industries, we need infrastructure.

We need good land and say the leg see connectivity -- land and sea

conductivity. We need to support business is growing in that

direction. But we have to put the infrastructure in place, we have to

give them the skills they need to grow, and we need to deal with the

energy costs. There are creative ways of doing that. It is not just

caps on energy costs. It's assisting in them finding alternative sources

of energy. Fearghal McKinney, how will the SDLP try to rise to the

challenge? Stephen will be delighted to know that we have inserted into

our manifesto the need for manufacturing. That alone will not

achieve everything we need, we need further initiatives around training.

We put another 1000 students through university, and we will have ?50

million for apprenticeship schemes. I am surprised the level at which

some of the contributors are comfortable with the extent we have

delivered in government. Naomi hasn't pointed out that, in fact,

Stephen Ferry cut education places at third level this year. At a time

when we are looking forward to corporation tax, bringing companies

like this in, allowing them to expand, we might not have the

graduates for that. Your party has defended producing more graduates

and teacher training, where there are no jobs. If you had allowed

Stephen to make the changes within his department around teacher

training, we could have saved money and invested in the kind of

employment opportunities you're talking about. I'm more interested

in the Stephen that asked the question, one of our key

recommendations is that we will support a long-term commitment to

keep the 30% cap on industrial rates, to recognise the vital

importance of the manufacturing sector. Are you satisfied with

anything you have heard? Do you think the politicians have

sufficiently grasped what for you and your members is such a huge

issue? The What I am hearing is that this will require a whole of

government approach. What happens in the departments

government approach. What happens in as what

government approach. What happens in department. It's great to hear that

manufacturing is core to department. It's great to hear that

manifesto that has been launched. We would hope, in that period,

manifesto that has been launched. We agreed, that the parties can agree

manifesto that has been launched. We to put the manufacturing base that

we have, the real strength, and to put the manufacturing base that

for the future. I want to bring in Rhona Quinn,

for the future. I want to bring in Construction Employers Federation.

for the future. I want to bring in think you have some

for the future. I want to bring in about the politicians'

for the future. I want to bring in growing infrastructure? I would like

to ask the panel, I don't believe the favourable corporation tax is

enough to grow our economy. I would like you to convince me that there

will be the necessary investment in infrastructure, along

will be the necessary investment in agreed, clear strategy from every

department to grow our economy. Lets get some brief comments on that, an

interesting point. Simon Hamilton? Lots of things helped an economy to

grow. Corporation tax is something that we have been universally

fighting for, supported by the business community. I am glad we

have been able to achieve that. That will have a transformational effect

on the economy and create tens of thousands of new jobs. It's not the

only thing we need to invest in, we need to invest in skills, energy,

lack of connectivity and broadband, closing the rural digital divide. We

also need to invest in infrastructure. Over the last five

years, the Executive, in difficult times, the Treasury in London

squeezing the capital budget, continued to invest over ?6 billion

in infrastructure projects across Northern Ireland, including new

roads, hospital facilities and schools. That is why we want to

invest more in infrastructure. It is the key point of the 5-point plan.

We want to create a ?1 billion infrastructure investment fund to

help the private sector to invest in everything from housing to renewable

energy, and other projects that will grow the economy. Michelle, does

Sinn Fein get the economy? Some critics say you are not earlier than

the numbers? I think that is an old argument, that is referred back to

all the time. Corporation tax will not solve all the ills, but I think

alongside other measures, one of the things we consistently call for is

more financial levers to make change. I think we should be able to

benefit from the policy decisions we take as a local economy. The Smith

Commission in Scotland looked towards the Scottish Executive, and

see if they can invested into the local economy. The more that we

collectively argue with the British government, to allow us to make the

case, to make proper decisions that suit the local economy. Back to the

question, I think the corporation tax in itself is not going to solve

all of this, but as an Executive, if you look back to the last five

years, take education alone, 1.2 billion invested in infrastructure

is, that is new school builds. If you look at my own department, the

rural jobs, bringing public-sector jobs into rural areas, that is a lot

of investment, construction jobs, ongoing service. We need to come at

this from a holistic point of view. Back to Stephen's point of view, the

Executive collectively needs to deliver. I could listen to the

parties either side of me, I have glanced at the manifestos, these are

wish lists. I don't believe in sitting here and making promises

that you can't deliver. That is an interesting point. I want to put

this to Fearghal. These two parties have a wish list

that is not even costed! I think that Simon is clear that they do

want to be in government. I think it is important not to make

promises you cannot deliver on. Rhona raises a point... Hang on a

second. The two top leading parties in the province are making promises

that they did not keep. Rhona raises an interesting point.

It was said that the Executive will not have the money to do all of the

things that the parties promise in their manifesto and will make

promises to do nasty things that they won't have to do. That you can

promise that at the end of the day you can say anything but you may not

deliver it? We want unrestrained ambition for jobs and getting the

place working. We want joined up government.

Look, we are going in to seek votes... Are you going to tell the

electorate you are going into government or not? Of course we want

to go into government. Is that the basis on which people

should vote for the SDLP, that you are going into government, not going

to opposition? Not going to any more doorsteps to go into opposition. We

are going to ask people to put us into government, to turn around the

failures of the last five years. Naomi Long? I think that

infrastructure is important. That is the question that Rhona raised. A

problem is that there are long lead in times. Often the minister that

starts the project is not the minister that ends it. We need a

regional infrastructure panel to guide investment across all of the

departments to make sure that we use the resources and the money that we

have to the best of the advantages. Danny, a quick word on this, then to

move on. It is a combination of things,

including better connections. When I was in DRD we brought in forward

schemes and other schemes, I think that is the secret. But it does

require collective responsibility and it does require a reduction of

the party politicking that is experienced.

ALL SPEAK AT ONCE.

Hang on, Simon. I want to hear from Rhona.

I admire the words and the promises. But we need words turned into

actions. There was a survey done with foreign investment companies

who came to Ireland, their priorities, they said, they were in

order of priority, firstly, that it was access to news markets,

secondly, equality infrastructure, thirdly availability of skills,

fourthly, government initiatives, for example, taxation, and lastly,

ease of doing business. So that tell us that investment, infrastructure,

and investment and education in our young people is much more important

than Corporation Tax. Schemes like the interchange, the F 5 really need

to happen. We have had too many empty promises, we need these things

to happen. Danny talked about the connectivity and the failure of my

parties and others in the Executive but no-one will forget that Danny

failed to deliver the biggest road project in the history of Northern

Ireland. He has to look at his own record.

What I would like to do is move things forward. Not picking over the

past. We can talk about the economy all night and trade insults.

So from Peter McGoran, a recent graduate. What can be done to repair

damage in Stormont Stormont? Naomi Long, what can be done to repair

damage of public trust in Stormont Stormont? A number of things. It is

wrong to say that Stormont has not has delivered over 18 years.

Northern Ireland is a better place as a result of it being there. But

it has not delivered as much as it could have. The potential was

greater than realised. So the first thing to recover trust is to engage

in health and the economy, all of the issues that we are engaging on.

The second is openness and transparency in government. That has

been a priority for me throughout my time. For example moving amendments

to ensure that donations made to local parties are scrutinised and to

move amendments to ensure that the councils are scrutinised. Equally a

mechanism for expenses and payments at Stormont so people have

confidence in what drives our politicians. Without those, without

storm delivering for the people who elect us and without people having

the confidence that we are acting on their behalf, not our own, or

the confidence that we are acting on on the behalf

the confidence that we are acting on then I don't think we will restore

the trust in confidence. Simon Hamilton, the Democratic

Unionist Party says Simon Hamilton, the Democratic

right for the system to be reformed as as far as political donations are

mentioned. You want transparency. I think that there have been

legitimate reasons in terms of security, why we did not move

earlier on this. But it is right to move to an open, transparent and

fair system of political donations. So every party in Northern Ireland,

fighting elections as in the United Kingdom fighting on the same playing

field. In my 14 year party leadership with

Peter Robinson, said that the public are slightly sceptical when in a

run-up to the election, you say you are going to publish, and then after

nothing happens. You have had two years, and it has not been done. The

nothing happens. You have had two decision in respect of making

donations open and transparent decision in respect of making

not rest with the parties. It does. We voluntarily publish ours. It does

rest with We voluntarily publish ours. It does

is a matter for We voluntarily publish ours. It does

London to take that decision. In terms of public trust, the question

is a good question, devolution is making a difference for people in

Northern Ireland. I axe accept that I will be the last person, I argue,

that Stormont is perfect but it is making a difference. This is a

better place today than it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. I have two young

children, I am confident that they can grow up in a Northern Ireland

far better than many of us will remember. We are delivering real

change. Yes we can do more, we want to do more, that is what we must do

in the next five years and beyond. Danny Kennedy how would you repair

damage to public trust? Danny Kennedy how would you repair

you fix things? You were not happy towards the end of the mandate, you

left the Executive, is that the answer to critic it from the

outside? No. This is us here on a basis that we can lead through the

next ex-exbecause of the leadership we have seen has failed. The message

that we are getting on the doors... ALL SPEAK AT ONCE

I think that, Michelle, you are a in a poor position to crow about the

achieve chiefments of your department when agriculture is on

its knees and the farmers that I talk to on a daily basis... Stay on

the issue of public trust, Danny, if you do not mind. Let me say that

there were things promised. Great promises made by the Sinn Fein and

the DUP. What are we left with? Had 00,000 of the population on hospital

waiting lists on a form or another. Allocated ?12 million for childcare,

much of it unspent. ?80 million to help with poverty, and dereliction,

again, little of it spent. Untrue. So the promises made, there has been

failure at the very heart of government here. We need to address

that. The best way to do so is to make change happen. On the 5th of

May the population, the electorate have the opportunity to elect a

fresh government with fresh ideas, better ideas, to move this place

forward and make Northern Ireland work.

Fearghal McKinney? It galls me that five of our government districts

still talk the league table over the whole of the UK for deprivation and

unemployment. Now I think that this government in the next month must

signal that health, deprivation and unemployment are the top priorities

that we are to deal with, and it is joined up government dealing with

these. So the enterprise recognises that health outcomes that arise from

dealing with the issues. And agriculture, understanding the rules

that they can have. Without that, that will undermine the public

confidence. Yes a month to sort this out. I want the other government

departments and I want them to declare tonight that is what they

are going to commit themselves to, otherwise there is no public

confidence at all in the delivery of this. We cannot tolerate the

statistics. Simon Hamilton's health department is suffering that the

situation with regards to mental health... I want to get context from

Professor Gormley Heathen, who has written on this subject a great

deal. Do you think public trust in politics in the Assembly,

specifically, is an at all time low? It is at a low but that is in

keeping with trust in politicians generally. Trust in politicians have

been declining for a number of years.

What is important to point out is that the link between transparency

and trust does not always work out the way that people expect it to.

Greater transparency does not necessarily lead to greater trust in

politicians. The reverse can sometimes happen. Trust declines

even more. But the most important point that has come across from the

panel is the notion of whether or not the Assembly is working. There

is a distinction that must be made between the able ale and the

Executive. Some of the panel are talking solely about the work of the

Executive but this is a Northern Ireland Assembly assembly election

if you compare how the Assembly has performed in compareson to Scotland

for example, the amount of ledge vagus that our Assembly has past is

comparable. So from 2011 to 2016 we passed 77 pieces of legislation,

Scotland passed 86. That is pretty comparable.

I want to leave it there to move on to another question. Thank you very

much for that. Janet Smith is to ask for the third

question, the Director of the Royal College of Nursing.

The expert panel set up by the Donaldson Review called on the

politicians to tick brave decisions to reform services. Nurses in

Northern Ireland have demonstrated that they can lead change, so I want

to ask the panel what they will do to support nurses and other

healthcare professionals to make the changes that need to be made in our

healthcare system. Michelle? When we look at the health

service, we look at the finances there, and the structural issues

that must be addressed. Moving forward, that is one of the things

we have to do. It comes back to collective working. People want the

Executive and the ministers to work together. When it comes to health,

there is no room for point scoring. I believe we should tackle root

causes as to where why people get sick in the first place. To tackle

that head on and put money into prevention otherwise we will have

the pressures that we have at the acute end of the hospital service.

Moving forward, what we are committing to is re-establishing

that connection, making sure that the health staff and healthcare

workers and proofs are involved in how to structure the health service

and moving forward. I think that I have heard from other parties there

is a will to remove the political point scoring to get down. A key

issue for the incoming programme for government has to be health, it has

to be education, it has to be jobs. Fearghal McKinney, what would your

party do? The Donalson Review recommended an impartial body to

look at the future of health and the politicians should have signed up.

We don't have that. There is international representation but not

knowing how highly respected they are with clinical leads from

Northern Ireland. So I have worries about that.

Primarily, we need to invest in the community side of the system. That

is what Simon Hamilton and his colleagues blinded themselves to,

dealing with the implications of TYC. We need to see the community

side of the system funded, investment in domiciliary care, so

we don't have a system swamping patients into the expense of the

hospital side of the system, stressing out nurses, consultants

and doctors. It is linked to the economic peace, what we have to do

is deal with the bigger stresses. Michelle has talked about the

original issues, the causes. Actually, the best intervention here

is still going to be a job. There are huge mental health issues, major

obesity issues, major alcoholism issues and depression, other issues

occurring in communities. If we manage to agree, going back to the

point of the joined up government, prioritising these issues, it has to

be the case. Without dealing with that, we are in another five years

of turmoil and another five years of a health minister experiencing

extreme difficulties and not being able to do the job, Simon has

proved, and his colleagues have proved themselves not be able to do.

Do you recognise that? I don't, you would not expect me to. I was

pleased to be able to set up the expert panel Janice referred to. I

think we are fortunate to have that panel, somebody of the qualities of

the professor from Spain. It is somebody who has worked for the

World Health Organization, administration, somebody of that

calibre, we are lucky to have. If administration, somebody of that

recommendations, he and his panel, will the DUP, and we do not know he

will be back at the Assembly, we don't know if you will be the Health

Minister, whoever is, will the DUP back that individual, taking painful

decisions, if it is best for the Health Service in Northern Ireland?

Sketching out my vision for reform and a world-class health service in

Northern Ireland, collectively, as parties in Stormont, we have to take

these difficult decisions. I am asking you specifically, will your

party? We are open to the big challenges facing the Health

Service. Even if it is unpopular with your backbenchers? Under the

DUP watch, waiting lists are 90% worse... I think Thurber wants to go

back into your job, Mark. He talks about implimenting transforming care

in full. One of the steps were closing the homes, and he was on the

steps protesting against it. Some are not up for the challenge, but I

am. The DUP refused to deal with the issues at the time, that is why we

are in this dreadful situation. 400,000 people, 400,000 people on a

waiting list of one kind or another. That is DUP failure. You have to let

me respond to that. You have one sentence. He has not read the memo

from his party leader, who last night said they should be taking

politics out of health. I need to bring in Danny and Naomi. If you

don't mind, Fearghal... Danny... Your manifesto talks about health

issues today. You say the Ulster Unionist Party once regionalisation

of services and the ability to respond to emergency needs of local

people. To me, it sounds like you are backing the status quo and will

not be up for the difficult decisions, if that is what is

recommended? Let me say, we should take the politics of the playground,

which we have heard evidence of year, out of health and we should

take politics out of health. You can't take politics out of health?

You can improve the situation. Undertake the suggestion we have

made, once the election is over, the votes are counted and the seats

allocated, we set about the serious as that of agreeing a programme for

government. If there are difficult decisions to be taken as far as

health is concerned, is the Ulster Unionist Party up for that? That is

before the parties allocated departments to themselves. That is

not a question, with respect? It is central to taking the politics out

of this. Health has been dogged by politics. Can you take politics out

of health? What you can do is support clinical professionals

working in it, you know what needs to be done to do the job they need

to do, to provide better care for patients. What is your message to

politicians? If the expert panel comes back and chimes in with

comments of Sir Liam Donaldson, when he was invited to set the whole

process going in the first place, saying that we need to do some

things which might not prove popular on the ground, but might be better

overall, should politicians do that if necessary? I think we have no

choice other than to take it seriously. We have been talking

about that for far too long. I agree with the comments Naomi has made

about public health. That needs to underpin everything we do. I think

we have to be led by the clinical evidence put in front of us. Some of

these decisions may not be popular. I would rather use a health service

that is safe and effective, than one that is necessarily popular. I think

you will find it is popular if it is safe and effective, sustainable,

that is what we need to work towards. Supporting those that

deliver the service and giving them what they require to deliver it

properly. It will require difficult decisions, not just a programme of

government stage, throughout the mandate. As the income changes, we

have to adapt to meet that. I do think it has to be led by clinical

evidence. You can't take politics out of the Health Service, there is

politics in every part of the life. But you can take party politicking

out of it. We should not be point-scoring around the Health

Service. We should try to provide a service which any of us sitting

here, or anywhere else, might be reliant on in any point in time. Let

me be clear, I have spent the last two and a half years asking the

health minister and the Department what they were doing about implement

in the plant that should have led us to a better place. I was told at the

start but it was being incremented. I discovered subsequently it wasn't.

That is the point. If I could finish my remark, because Fearghal has had

some time, it is telling about the commitment to health and how it is

viewed, that it is so often the last pic when an Executive is formed. It

is seen as a hot potato issue, a difficult challenge. I am making it

clear if we are in a position to make decisions, we would be happy to

take the health Department, we think there is a job of work to be done

here, in terms of reform, investment, turning the Health

Service around and increasing morale by making promises to clinicians

that are kept. We think that needs to happen and we don't want to see

it left lying on the table when the government is formed. If you are

returned, after made a fifth, -- made the fifth, and a party is in a

position to pick ministries, with the DUP choose health further up the

lion than it was chosen last time? We did take it last time, when other

parties have the opportunity to pick it. It was a late pic. I would not

get into the position of what we would take at this stage, I would

not be that presumptuous. Talking to people on the doors, they say they

want us to take lots of departments, the education Department, the

economy, some, not those around the table, want me back as Health

Minister as well. We do need to face up to the challenges that are facing

the Health Service. What we always need to keep up the forefront of our

mind is that we are producing better outcomes for our people. You did not

demonstrate that in the last five years. That is why we have invested

half a billion more in the last five years and we are making a big

spending commitment, in terms of wanting to increase the budget by ?1

billion. We also need to restore the staff morale and confidence. Staff

that are truly appreciated and properly paid. Let's move on to a

question from Emma Campbell, a member of Alliance For Choice. In

light of last week's conviction of a 21-year-old Hugh, in desperation,

accessed abortion pills on the internet to induce a miscarriage, do

they believe we should trust women, or we should put women in jail for

having abortions in Northern Ireland. My party position in

relation of abortion, we are not in favour of abortion on demand. In all

of these things, that has to be compassion. I don't think it was in

the public interest to prosecute a young woman who found herself in a

difficult position. When it comes to sexual crime or the situation of

fatal fatal abnormality, we need to support women in difficult

situations. On this specific case? The young woman needs to have

counselling, guidance and support. There needs to be proper services in

place to support women. I think that is very clear. Any woman who might

consider buying drugs online for whatever reason, with no medical

supervision, that is not advisable for anybody. The difficulty you have

got, you began your answer by saying he wanted to be clear that Sinn Fein

does not support abortion on demand. There are people here saying that

accessing drugs in this way, effectively, is abortion on demand?

But you are saying the woman in question should not be prosecuted?

These are not black and white issues. It is a compassionate issue,

we need compassion for this woman and any woman who finds herself in

crisis pregnancy. We have an obligation as leaders to show

leadership, to take positive choices, work with and make sure we

have proper services on the ground. That is where we need to prioritise

issues. In a recent court case, it was said that our abortion

legislation is not even human rights compliant. That is not acceptable.

This is a matter of conscience, I speak only for me and my colleagues.

I believe this is an example of where real life outside of politics

has moved way beyond where legislation is capable in Northern

Ireland of dealing with the situation. We have a situation where

somebody procured pills across the internet and have taken them home. I

don't think it was in the public interest to take that young woman

through the courts. It is notable that, even under the 67 Act, it

would have been an offence, you're not allowed to take those tablets

without supervision, and there was a good reason that is the case. Young

women that do that in the future may haemorrhage, developed septicaemia,

they might be too afraid to present at hospitals because they are afraid

of being criminalised. We need to grasp the nettle and deal with this.

How would you deal with that? We talked earlier about taking party

politics out of it. That is the first step. We do have an informed

conversation around the issue of abortion. It is not as simple as

saying we will trust women. At some stage in the debate, we have to

consider their two lives involved. People have a variety of views at

what point that happens, for lots of different reasons. There are moral

and ethical questions engaged in this. I personally believe, as

Michelle has said, that in the cases of fatal fetal abnormality and in

cases of sexual crime, it is right that abortion should be available in

those difficult circumstances. There is a wider issue we have to address

as an Assembly. I think we can only do that properly by having a

reasoned conversation around where limits in this might be. The 67 Act,

in my view, is not fit for purpose and I do not believe its extension

in Northern Ireland is good for the people of Northern Ireland or it

will deliver what those who campaign for it would like to see. Fearghal,

your party has a clear pro-life position, but not necessarily all of

your elected representatives agree 100%? This is an emotive issue and

it should be discussed in a mature and open way, which is why my party

deeply regretted the way the Alliance Party tacked it onto the

end of the justice Bill, in the dying days of the mandate. I'll have

to come back on that. This is a story of tragedy involving a young

woman. And her friends. I find it sad that, in 2016, we have to reach

for abortion as a first option, and that as our consideration. We do not

have the services, the advice and the caring authority that is needed

to ensure people like that young woman are protected. You think the

subject needs to be discussed in a sensitive and mature way, and then

you attack the Alliance Party. Let me allow Naomi to come back, because

she is not happy with the way she was characterised. First of all, the

Alliance Party didn't do anything. It is a matter of conscience.

Members of the Alliance Party brought amendments, not acting as

members of the party, but as individuals. They were not tacked

on. They had been consulted on extensively, with David Ford, as

Justice Minister, if I could finish, because you did start this, despite

it being a matter of conscience, the way that my colleagues dealt with

this case, it is something that I am very proud of, they did not make

false promises, saying they would give their members a free vote, and

then whipping them through the division lobbies, they were honest

in what they could do and I think it is shameful that anyone would try to

use the case that young woman to attack another party. Those who made

her false promises should be hanging their heads in shame.

Simon is the Health Minister, it is a health and justice issue that

straddles both departmental responsibilities. Let's not forget

the question: Should a woman go to jail for having an abortion? I think

that the case that Emma refers to, it was well publicised as a tragedy

on all sides, for the mother, for the baby and also for her friends,

that is why I think we have to be, as others have said, incredibly

sensitive and respectful and compassionate in how we discuss and

deal with the issue. That is why we tried to have the informed

conversation that night-time yes talked about by creating a working

group that will have clinical experts and legal experts in that

group and importantly to talk to those directly affected and looking

at the issue of fatal foetal abnormalities.

Nobody in my party was whipped to vote. I think that was the case for

other parties as well. What we saw in the Assembly was a clear

pronouncement by parties on all sides, that there what a pro-life

position in Northern Ireland. That is something that we are proud to

fight for and will continue to do so, notwithstanding that these are

difficult cases that we have to look at carefully and deal with in a

sensitive way. I want to bring in Peter Lynas, the

director of Evangelical Alliance, again, this is an issue you feel

strongly about, and you take a different view from Emma's on this?

Absolutely. It is a difficult issue. The church and others have been

leading the way in providing passion, counselling and support and

looking at plans for hospice care. We want to end the crisis, not the

pregnancy. We don't want to see decriminalisation, the implications

of that are to say that any woman, any time, anywhere, could end a

pregnancy. If there are two lives engaged, then the criminal law must

remain. We want to see clarity. The guidelines need to be clear. We are

fans of that. The church is consistent on a range of issues.

People talk of child poverty that begins in the womb. We have led the

fight on human trafficking but on this issue, we are encouraging the

parties, most of whom have a pro-life, to clear, no change in the

mandate. Not on behalf of ourselves but on behalf of those who have no

voice and have no vote on the 5th of May.

Thank you very much. Danny, would you like to pick up on what you have

heard so far and tell us your party position and your personal position?

I think it is important that I state the party's position, that is

freedom of conscious for our representatives and members.

Would you like that to be the case for all? I think it is helpful in

all cases, I thoroughly recommend it to the other parties. I think that

these are issues that are complex and highly sensitive and deeply

emotional. We need to be carefully, to trade carefully as we tread

through them. It is clear that the law as it stands was broken. Was it

right to prosecute? It is a matter for the judicial authorities to

decide. It is not for the politicians to determine. It... But

it is a matter for the judicial authorities to decide whether or not

it is appropriate. What I say is that justice

it is appropriate. What I say is tempered with mercy. I think

it is appropriate. What I say is balance has to be found

it is appropriate. What I say is Christian compassion we would

it is appropriate. What I say is that balance to be found. I look

forward to the review under taken. that balance to be found. I look

hope that it will report and that the report will be debated in

hope that it will report and that mature and a respectable manner,

fashion. The woman in this particular case, of course, received

a suspended jail sentence but she particular case, of course, received

stands, the difficulty is particular case, of course, received

the law is broken, it is particular case, of course, received

remedied in some shape or form. But I am saying in this particular case,

and in cases like it, justice should be tempered with mercy.

And from Emma, what do you make of what you heard from the politicians?

I think I am very disappointed. What this ignores is that thousands of

women from Northern Ireland have had to travel to England to access

abortion healthcare which means that to travel to England to access

the law hasn't stopped any abortions, it just made them more

difficult, more dangerous and harder to access. There are also hundreds

of women amonth to access. There are also hundreds

online. So it is just as was said if the law is not doing anything to

stop them, what is it for? The law clearly

stop them, what is it for? The law Northern Ireland. The rates of

abortion, even taking travelling to England and Wales,

they are lower in Northern Ireland. travelling to England and Wales,

As Naomi said, this travelling to England and Wales,

England and Wales, so the notions that the numbers are not there is

not representative. It is an offence in England and Wales but the

difference is there that someone can in England and Wales but the

attend and get medical avice in England and Wales but the

take the medication, which they cannot do here. That is a point that

we have to look at. Thank you

we have to look at. the question. Thank you, Emma, thank

we have to look at. you to Peter, and we have aired the

we have to look at. way. Now the next question from

Deirdre Gillespie who is the Principal of St Mary's Magherafelt.

I have listened with interests of the views shared by the panel

members of the commitment to the growth of our economy. Without

members of the commitment to the doubt, the growth of any economy is

dependent on investment in our young people. This comes at a time when

our budgets in schools are cut considerably. The workings of that

is subject choice being reduced. . There are more nonspecialist

teachers teaching the young people and those on vocational pathways

with linkages through the further education colleges are disappearing.

My question is simply: How will panel members ensure adequate

investment to ensure that all our of your people reach full potential?

Quick answers. I was the Finance Minister and we have been dealing

with very difficult budget settlements over the last five

years. It has been challenging in the last number of years. I am

pleased to say that we were able to freeze the education budget at the

time when other departments were taking cuts. We want to see schools

like you having greater autonomy to spend the budgets that you have. I

know that my children are in a great school but it is hampered by the

situation that it cannot spend the money it has.

And despite all of those challenges, this is a good news story. It has

been overseen that there is ?1.2 billion in educational

infrastructure but outside of it we have to ensure that the education is

delivered to all of our children. More kids are coming out with five

GCSE's, more kids coming with A-levels and better numeracy. But we

have to do this. After this, deliver for the economy, deliver for health,

let's deliver for more jobs and make sure that there are more jobs for

the kids when they come out of school.

Danny? Well, lately education has been nothing short of a disaster.

Driven on the issue of selection. Michelle, I did not interrupt you.

Michelle let him answer. There are issues that must be tackled, and

among them are underachievement. But the initiatives that John O'Dowd and

his predecessors took... ALL SPEAK AT ONCE

We would be pleased to keep the education portfolio and make a

proper job of it. Naomi Long? The amount of money

available in education is static at best. Looking at inflation it will

drop. We have to deal with the 70-thousand and empty school desks.

Without proper planning we will be underresourced. Part of the planning

for Mijas to be about tackling the fact that 80% of parents want

children in integrated education, and only 70% do. We can do a long

way to reorganising the schools and engaging with the schools to try to

provide the integrated option, to meet the needs and deal with the

empty desks. I was delighted to visit the early years organisation.

That is where major investment must be. I know that many people value

the Catholic education sector and the quality that emerges from that.

We have to look at the good outputs. I'm disappointed with the way that

the Sinn Fein have run it and the mess that they made with the failure

to deal with the selection process. Thank you very much for that.

I think we can squeeze in one more question if we are quick about it.

Deirdre Gillespie, thank you very much for that Michael McGlade, the

digital tal editor of the Mid Ulster Times.

I would like to ask the panel if you are not successful in the election,

what is your plan B? Danny? I am not contemplating failure. Hoping I will

not fail. But I think that my wife and I recently became grandparents.

Perhaps it would allow us more time to look after Eva. And also looking

forward to looking to see the euros. Damn is your man! Michelle? I would

have lots of work to do to be elected.

So you will get a job in the party anywhere? Always an activist.

Not contemplating failure? Absolutely not.

Danny? I am not planning to fail. I sometimes joke about the time when I

was an accountant, when I worked for a living, I could return to that. If

Danny does get the gig as bag carrier for Michael O'Neill, I may

apply for the job as Danny's bag carrier.

A deal. Naomi? Been there, done that! This

is something you have experience of! There is life outside of politics

but it cannot be that great as I'm here again. I'm planning for

success. But if you are not elected it is not the end of the world. It

would take my political engagement in a different direction.

And Fearghal McKinney? I will have a plan B which is plan A. I will push

to ensure that the new Government deals with everything that we are

talking about today. I thought you were auditioning to

come back as a television presenter? So did we! You don't miss it? No. I

don't miss it. I like being on this side of the stage as well. I loved

being on that side of the stage. I find that side of the stage was a

privileged position. This side is on the pitch, sometimes it is cold,

sometimes it is hard play but I'm aiming for success and goals.

Thank you very much. Thank you very much to the members

of the audience. That is just about it on the

positive note. We say good night from Castledawson and our election

special. Thank you to the panel of politicians and the #5udence and of

course to everyone at Moyola Precision Engineering, for all of

their help. I'll be back with Sunday Politics

at 11.35 here on BBC1. For now, though, from everyone

here, bye bye. the Good Friday Agreement

was born... the first-time voters,

to have your say.